New original line toys... good idea or no?

[BigApple3AM]

I was just thinking, Playmates is making 7" movie figures, 5" animated figure, and now 2" galactic hero rip offs.

What's stopping them (besides Mr. Laird) from just going back to 4" and making toys similar to how they used to? It'd be really awesome if they did characters from back in the day that never made it into plastic from in the same exact style of the old toy line. Like armaggon, the mutanimals, Karai, a better leatherhead, etc... I can't see the old toy construction costing all that much. So it'd be affordable just like it was back in the day.

I want them to progress with the toys like some other companies have, but aside from the turtles most of the figures actually have the same or worse articulation and detail compared to the original figures.

It's just my opinion but if they were to do mutanimals I don't think it makes much sense to do them in the movie style. I actually think they should continue either the 7" movie line or the 5" animated line, but with their universe characters not old ones.

Now we'll have the 2" line and a collector line from Neca. A 4" line might be a bit too much but it makes the most sense of all of them since it's where they started and there's already tons of characters they'd fit in with.

Plus they could reissue certain figures to fill out a throwback line like this. The original turtles would be key, plus maybe ray fillet if they did the other mutanimals. Scratch, Hotspot, and Shogun Triceraton/Shoate would be great too. Some characters could get redone completely though (shredder, leatherhead, in scale chrome dome, etc...).

Just to make it more clear I'm not saying they should do new movie characters or 2k3 characters in a 4" line. I think they should stay with their respective 7" and 5" lines. For example the GI Joe line had comic 3 packs with new never before done characters as well as reissue characters. Plus some toys r us exclusives, all using the original RAH construction. This was with updated new figures in stores at the same time. Now they have the ultimate throwback line with the 25 anniversary toys, with 8" sigma six toys out at the same time.

I think it'd be nice for the older collectors, but it'd work well with kids too. I mean most of us were kids when we bought the toys and there was nothing better. And it's not like these toys are too outdated, when compared to the new toys the only difference is scale. Actually I think the older toys were made better than the majority of the new ones.

Let me know how you feel about this, I'm interested to see if there's any fan demand for something like this. Maybe now with Mr. Murphy taking over licensing, we can get his attention to something like this. Even if it never happens it's something nice to think about!

[Roseangelo]

Did you not read this (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=21602)?

Murphy is our best hope for something like this to happen and he already knows we want it (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2490093766124645019&postID=544583370605886915).

[BigApple3AM]

I know, but when you guys were saying retro line it meant old characters in the new movie line, which would be generic and no fun. Unless it was the old characters in a marvel legends type line I'd be all for it. Otherwise the next best thing is new characters in the old line. I'm going to draw up some concept sketches and see if my friend will sculpt one in the old style. I'll have to get his ass to show you guys his awesome rocksteady he sculpted in a ML type scale/style.

[Slash]

I'll have to get his ass to show you guys his awesome rocksteady he sculpted in a ML type scale/style.

I thought those were made... Supermutants... ;)

[Roseangelo]

I know, but when you guys were saying retro line it meant old characters in the new movie line, which would be generic and no fun. Unless it was the old characters in a marvel legends type line I'd be all for it. Otherwise the next best thing is new characters in the old line.

No. When it is said old characters will not be made, it means in ANY fashion/representation. Jagwar is just a lucky fluke.

[BigApple3AM]

No. When it is said old characters will not be made, it means in ANY fashion/representation. Jagwar is just a lucky fluke.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about actually being made, I'm talking about what the fans want. It seems in those threads when people would talk about wanting a retro line they wanted krang, rocksteady, bebop, etc... done in a new movie/animated style. All I'm saying is instead of that wouldn't it be cool if they made new toys in the old style. I'm not talking about what's actually going on with mirage or playmates, though if enough fans wanted it I think it's something we could approach them with even if there's a small chance of it happening.

Anyway the point of this thread wasn't for more Laird bashing so please don't go that way.

I thought those were made... Supermutants... ;)

Hardly, that was some weird anime style. Here's an example of an ML tmnt:
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d81/pweagle2005/DSC03457.jpg

I took that custom from this thread:
http://forums.toynewsi.com/index.php?showtopic=2018109&pid=16195739&st=0&#entry16195739

It's very cool and shows what a modern day retro line COULD be, but instead we'll get something like this:
http://i.toynewsi.com/g/index.php?mode=view&album=TMNT%2FAlien_Hunters%2F&pic=55183-Alien-Hunter-Thrashmo.jpg&dispsize=600&start=0

So instead of getting a lame update to what was a great character/toy, I think we should take great characters and made them in the old toy style. That's ALL I'm saying with this thread!

[VaughnMichael]

Um I don't see anyone Laird bashing and quite frankly I'd much rather have characters that look just as they did when they where on the air.
The only person who can make this happen is Murphy.

[Coola Yagami]

Plus they could reissue certain figures to fill out a throwback line like this. The original turtles would be key, plus maybe ray fillet if they did the other mutanimals. Scratch, Hotspot, and Shogun Triceraton/Shoate would be great too. Some characters could get redone completely though (shredder, leatherhead, in scale chrome dome, etc...).



Shoate is already a Mirage comics character. All they have to do is make the TMNT have another adventure that has Rennet, Savanti and Shoate and Shoate is sure to have his own action figure soon.

[odupianist]

That Triceraton is freakin' sweet lol

[Straight-Edge]

What's stopping them (besides Mr. Laird) from just going back to 4" and making toys similar to how they used to? It'd be really awesome if they did characters from back in the day

Aside from the fact that no toy company, ever, has even once tried to continue a toyline that's been dead for ten years, based on characters only a small group of rabid fans care anything about (or even remember), which essentially makes it a cult-property *inside* a mid-level franchise... lots of things stop Playmates from doing this.

First, there's the asthetic of the old toys, the inherent goofiness that has all but been stripped from the Turtles since their corporate sell-out days. That asthetic, that once ruled the isles, has long since passed in favor of other things. Most action figures are not "silly" anymore.

Second, as much as you think otherwise, it costs a *lot* of money to make a toy. A simpe toy, a complex toy, a collector's item. They all cost LOTS of money to produce. There is no such thing as a cheap toyline. Designing a character requires paying R&D people. Sculpting requires paying artists, and molds are thousands of dollars each. To put out one wave of even overly simple figures like the 80s turtles would be a multi-million dollar investment on Playmate's part.

And with no cartoon to support them, nothing to draw in the kids (something like this would be, ultimately, for the fans of those characters), there's zero chance of this ever happening. As it is, TMNT is in the death throes of it's second coming. It's going to take major damage control to save this sinking ship (Laird loosening up his control, a more focused approach by Playmates, and a Post-Movie direction that is more popular than Fast Forward).

Taking five steps back isnt the way.

[BigApple3AM]

Aside from the fact that no toy company, ever, has even once tried to continue a toyline that's been dead for ten years, based on characters only a small group of rabid fans care anything about (or even remember), which essentially makes it a cult-property *inside* a mid-level franchise... lots of things stop Playmates from doing this.

I already gave an example, I'm sorry if you can't read. GI Joe made characters never before done in the original toy style taken from the marvel comics. Released them to stores, and they sold well enough to get the series continued for quite a while.

First, there's the asthetic of the old toys, the inherent goofiness that has all but been stripped from the Turtles since their corporate sell-out days. That asthetic, that once ruled the isles, has long since passed in favor of other things. Most action figures are not "silly" anymore.

Lots of things have been stripped from the toys... paint... articulation...detail. If I can't get those things in a modern package, might as well give me the old toys... and has turtles truly been stripped of its "corporate sell out days" when there are variants coming out called alien hunters which has nothing to do with the tmnt at all? Ninja Knights... Mech Wreckers, etc...

Second, as much as you think otherwise, it costs a *lot* of money to make a toy. A simpe toy, a complex toy, a collector's item. They all cost LOTS of money to produce. There is no such thing as a cheap toyline. Designing a character requires paying R&D people. Sculpting requires paying artists, and molds are thousands of dollars each. To put out one wave of even overly simple figures like the 80s turtles would be a multi-million dollar investment on Playmate's part.

Please quote me where I said it was inexpensive to make toys. I believe I said "So it'd be affordable just like it was back in the day." Affordable doesn't mean cheap. Affordable is different for everyone, for a large toy company affordable means something completey different. Articulation is very expensive. The original tmnt toys had one basic construction which compared to toys of today is AFFORDABLE. Then they can pass those savings on to the consumer which they've always liked to do. The original toys cost about $3.50-$5 at retail, the 2k3 toys cost about $5-7 at retail, and the new movie toys cost about $7-8 at retail. Compared to other toys on the market the turtles have always been an inexpensive toy.


And with no cartoon to support them, nothing to draw in the kids (something like this would be, ultimately, for the fans of those characters), there's zero chance of this ever happening. As it is, TMNT is in the death throes of it's second coming. It's going to take major damage control to save this sinking ship (Laird loosening up his control, a more focused approach by Playmates, and a Post-Movie direction that is more popular than Fast Forward).

The turtles are still extremely popular. There just hasn't been anything to interest kids in the toy aisle. Why would a kid want to buy the SAME turtle figure just with different accessories attached. When I was a kid I could spot reused or similar parts on different figures, like the mutation figures compared to the original figures. It's even worse now. That plus the toys aren't even interesing, they're bland with little detail and articulation. Karai, max winters, the jersey devil, etc... The TMNT line just hasn't had any good well made fun to play with or visually exciting toys. They manage to somehow sell on name alone.

Taking five steps back isnt the way.


I don't see how it'd be 5 steps back. The original toys are actually better made than many of the new toys. That plus this would only be a sub line like I said, something for collectors that kids would probably buy too. There have been MANY lines like this for other toys like Transformers, GI Joes, He-Man (reissue line in 2001), Star Wars, etc...

If you disagree and don't want old toys that's perfectly fine, but don't put any more words in my mouth while ignoring what I actually said in my post.

[Slash]

I'd also say that GIJoe has been htting fan demands more than Playmates. Old and new characters, with new sculpts, and online exclusives...

[Drtooth]

And let's not forget MOTU... they didn't do too well, but they did it.

[BigApple3AM]

Mattel reissued those MOTU toys in 2001 and they sold pretty well, they got a series 2, and several box set exclusives. From what I remember the 2002 relaunch line did huge business, at first you couldn't find any of them, but it died in 2003/2004 because Mattel packed the cases with retarded he-man and skeletor variants. Actually MOTU is still going from guess who... NECA. Man if they make those turtles toys really well I'll just direct deposit my checks to that company. One company to rule them all.

[Straight-Edge]

GI Joe made characters never before done in the original toy style taken from the marvel comics. Released them to stores, and they sold well enough to get the series continued for quite a while.

Actually, those characters were nothing more than repainted vintage Joes, with newly sculpted heads. A completely different beast than launching a brand new line, with 100% brand new sculpting, in a style that's been obsolete for over ten years.

Lots of things have been stripped from the toys... paint... articulation...detail. If I can't get those things in a modern package, might as well give me the old toys.

Well, aside from the logical bounce there... it's great if you have a preference for the vintage toys. If you feel those were better made, then who am i to judge? I'm just pointing out that never in a million years would Playmates go ten years backwards, and start making toys that fit in with the old line.

Especially if those toys require more intricate paint jobs and higher levels of detail in the sculpt.

Please quote me where I said it was inexpensive to make toys. I believe I said "So it'd be affordable just like it was back in the day." Affordable doesn't mean cheap. Affordable is different for everyone, for a large toy company affordable means something completey different.

Dude, you can split hairs all you want, but the cost differences between a vintage-style turtle produced from the ground up, and a modern one would be negligable. Articulation does not account for much of the budget. If it did, a 4" GIJoe would cost more than any Ninja Turtle ever did! But a single Joe figure will always be cheaper than a Turtle. Same thing with Marvel Legends. If articulation was such a big factor, they wouldnt only cost 2 dollars more.

At the end of the day, what costs money in producing the steel molds, and paying everyone that designs the figures. Size and motion are secondary factors, at best.

The original toys cost about $3.50-$5 at retail, the 2k3 toys cost about $5-7 at retail, and the new movie toys cost about $7-8 at retail.

You missed the most important factor here: inflation. GIJoes in the 80s cost a dollar or two. Now, they cost 5 dollars. And the only real reason is inflation.

There have been MANY lines like this for other toys like Transformers, GI Joes, He-Man (reissue line in 2001), Star Wars, etc...

Sorry, but every line you mentioned here did exactly what Playmates did with TMNT... they made *new* toys, in a new style, that went above and beyond the originals. And the He-Man figures you're talking about were just a reissue of old toys. Nothing new (and they were only released to spark interest in the brand new toyline they launched the next year).

What you're talking about is unprecedented in toy history. It has never happened, and will likely never happen because it goes against every logical business practice that companies like Playmates employ.

A line is either rereleased (repainted, repackaged, but ultimately old product made new again), or reinvented. Never has an old line been ressurected exactly as-is... let alone *after* so long, and when other versions have been released in between.

The original toys are actually better made than many of the new toys. That plus this would only be a sub line like I said, something for collectors that kids would probably buy too.

A lot of your opinions sit in there (especially the idea that the old figures are of a higher quality). I'm not giving my opinions here. I'm pointing out the facts of action figure production that make what you're talking about impossible.

If you're just daydreaming about what you would like, that's fine. But there's no way it'd happen in reality.

[BigApple3AM]

Yeah I am daydreaming, these are fan forums after all and I thought I made it obvious in the first post. I still think it'd be cheaper to make old 4" tmnt toys than 7" new ones. I hear plastic is the main reason for prices have gone up, since you need to use oil to make it. That's probably why Joes are cheaper, but I have heard articulation is expensive. Which is probably why Playmates doesn't use a lot of it. ML were pretty cheap when Toybiz made them because the biz is owned by marvel and didn't need to pay licensing fees. Now hasbro has them and they've cut articulation, have no paint applications, very little detail, and I think the toys are even slightly smaller or leaner. And they cost more than they did before plus they don't come with comic books anymore. I'm not sure if it's inflation or rising plastic costs due to oil. But I do know licensing plays a bit, and GI Joe is owned by Hasbro, so no licensing fees there. Star Wars cost more than GI Joe, have less articulation, and cost about $2-3 more. I think they paid millions for that license.

Your'e right about joes being reused, but they all had new heads and some new accessories plus comic books. Joes reused parts a lot in the 80's too though, or at least at first.

I'm not sure it'd really be taking any steps backwards, like I said before it wouldn't replace any lines, it would just be a nice nod for collectors. And something kids would buy.