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View Full Version : My thoughts on 'Volume 4' of the TMNT


heretic888
02-10-2003, 08:40 AM
Okay, these are basically my thoughts and perceptions on the new TMNT series put out by Peter Laird and Jim Lawson, with a little help from Eric Talbot and Mike Dooney.

First things first, gents and ladies, the story. No matter what anyone tells you, the story is what makes a comic worth buying. The visual artwork exists mostly to support the story, because without a good story all you have is a bunch of pretty pictures devoid of any dynamism. So, the story is what is key.

And, as far as the overall plot goes, I will undoubtedly affirm to you right now that Mr. Laird kicks major ass. The overall plot and overlapping story-archs are intense, involved, complex, and dynamic. I love 'em. I would dare say this is the best TMNT story-arch(s) that I have EVER encountered in Mirage, with the sole exception of City at War and possibly Return to New York. C'mon, dudes, you can just FEEL that build-up and tension... Laird rules at that.

Now, as far as story goes, I do have one lamentation. That is, namely how the characters are portrayed. Sometimes, it is really forced and artificial. I think we begin to see where Eastman's major contribution to the series was: the characters' portrayal and development. Laird totally rocks at the overall plots and stories themselves, but he comes up a little dry on the characters (by this, I mean the turtles, casey, april, and splinter).

How so, you may ask?? Well, Laird seems to have turned Donatello from pseudo-geek to super-geek, and I mean this by Don's dialogue. At times, it seems VERY forced and somewhat fake. Raph, I would say, is basically in character. No argument here. Leo, while mostly in character, does seem to be grandiose in Laird's portrayal at parts. His recent 'fight' with Cha Ocho is an example of this. He almost sounded like a martial arts textbook instead of a vibrant character. C'mon, guys, Leo NEVER sounded like someone from a Kurosawa film in the other Mirage books.

Some of Mike's comments are completely out of character. For example, when they are all in the waiting room waiting to hear news about April, Mike is portrayed as annoying and impatient. In the old series, Mike (with the possible exception of Donatello) was probably the MOST patient and relaxed of the four of them!! And this is 15 years later, so I would expect that he has grown even more since then and not devolved into an immature, impatient annoyance. C'mon, Mr. Laird, this is the comic not the cartoon; we all know you had to makes compromises on Mike's character to get the cartoon done, but please don't also do this in the comic.

Also, Mike's comments in the last issue that "I generally don't like to exercise" seems to fly in the face of TMNT history as well as Mike's character. If Mike doesnt like to 'exercise' why did he spend do much time in the early Mirage books sparring with Raph? In fact, the Palladium RPG plainly says Mike LOVES to spar and Raph is his favorite sparring partner. The RPG also states that Mike thoroughly enjoys his ninja training (although it also admits that just enjoys 'goofing around' as well), and only that he doesn't work as hard and isn't as obsessed with it as Leo and Raph. And, if Mike doesn't like to exercise, why did he spend so much time at the farmhouse doing just that?? Just doesn't make sense to me......

I do like how Laird is trying to elucidate Mike's agility though, as in the recent issue.... like how he is trying to note the 'skill differences' between the characters.

Artwork.... well, it takes some getting used to, but I feel Lawson's work is completely appropriate for the mood and flow of Laird's stories and scripts. And, although I would prefer Laird himself or even Eric Talbot, I think Lawson's work is just fine. Although, I will admit some of his human faces need work. He does the turtles almost flawlessly though....

So... that's my basic take: overall story = VERY GOOD, characters = bleh, needs some work, art = quite good, but needs some brushing up here and there.

Those are my thoughts. What do you all think???

Karpo_007
02-10-2003, 10:29 AM
Well it has been 15 years, people[turtles]change... That could explain the changes in characters. And the art, Over all good[judging by the first issue] but Humans are a little weird looking. The TMNT looks just excellent!

Aztec General
02-10-2003, 10:42 AM
Well there have been a few topics on this already, but I'll be happy to share my opinions again.

Plus:
1) I agree with you that something major is developing. The story is deep, complex, ever expanding, and mysterious. I'm not sure what will develop but it appears that it will be huge.
2) Lots of returning characters. Wow, almost 20 Mirage legends have returned. I like it.
3) Well this may sound dumb, but I'm just excited to see the Mirage universe still developing and unfolding.

Minus:
1) With that being said I am a little disappointed at the lack of action. It has been 8 issues of building and there has not been one fight of interest, nor any violence. To pre-emtpively answer someone's question: Yes, violence is an important aspect of the Mirage TMNT world.
2) Another complaint I have is that there is no apparent villian. Who are the turtles working against and vice versa. I hope someone steps up soon.

As for the art question, Lawson's nonhuman characters are phenomenal (check out the alien creature from issue 3), but his humans leave a great deal to be desired.

heretic888
02-10-2003, 12:50 PM
Well it has been 15 years, people[turtles]change... That could explain the changes in characters.

Yes, but what I am talking about is not character development. Don and Leo sound forced and stereotypical at times. And Mike is blatantly out of character, like he is somewhat leaning towards his new cartoon incarnation. C'mon, we don't need that.

And the art, Over all good[judging by the first issue] but Humans are a little weird looking. The TMNT looks just excellent!

Yes, I agree.

I agree with you that something major is developing. The story is deep, complex, ever expanding, and mysterious. I'm not sure what will develop but it appears that it will be huge.

Bingo. The overall plot is what carries this title. It kicks ass.

Lots of returning characters. Wow, almost 20 Mirage legends have returned. I like it.

I dunno. The number of characters seems a little daunting at times.

Well this may sound dumb, but I'm just excited to see the Mirage universe still developing and unfolding.

That doesn't sound dumb at all. I agree completely.

With that being said I am a little disappointed at the lack of action. It has been 8 issues of building and there has not been one fight of interest, nor any violence. To pre-emtpively answer someone's question: Yes, violence is an important aspect of the Mirage TMNT world.


I honestly don't have a problem with it. There wasn't major action in every issue of the other tmnt series when they had ongoing storyarchs either. I think action should be present when it is needed, and not arbitrarily put into every issue. Quality over quantity.

Another complaint I have is that there is no apparent villian. Who are the turtles working against and vice versa. I hope someone steps up soon.


As Mr. Laird has pointed out, the turtles dont HAVE to have an archvillian. Remember, they are a family that occassionally does heroics, NOT a hero team that occasionally resembles a family (as in the old cartoon).

As for the art question, Lawson's nonhuman characters are phenomenal (check out the alien creature from issue 3), but his humans leave a great deal to be desired.

Yes, I think we all agree on this point.

lhb412
02-10-2003, 07:42 PM
I like it overall, I just want a bit more action.

TMNT_4ever
02-11-2003, 06:16 PM
I think Eastman was the action guy of the team, especially if you've seen his stuff with Bisley, it's nothing but action. That's why Eastman and Laird worked so well together, Laird was the plot guy and Eastman was the fight scene guy and the two ingredients made great comics. Now we're left with just the plot guy, so there's a million stories going on at once and no action to break it up.
I think it's good, but more fighting would be nice. They are ninjas after all.

Lawson's art is weird but he's really good at some stuff. His people are definitely freaky, but he does other stuff well. I miss how his stuff looked in Return to New York though. That issue Eric Talbot inked looks awesome, but Lawson's art keeps getting more cartoony looking.

I'll keep getting it as long as they keep publishing it.

heretic888
02-11-2003, 08:01 PM
I think Eastman was also the 'character' guy too.......

CapnJeffro
02-11-2003, 10:39 PM
I also like the vol 4 TMNT stories, but have basically the same complaints and compliments as everyone else. Not enough true action, humans are drawn a bit funny, and no major enemey to speak of. But I love small things like in ish #5 Don (I believe) said they thought about using different colored bandanas so the Utroms could identify them (since weapons are not allowed on their base of operation), but thought that was stupid and went for tatoos instead.

One small thing that bugs me, and always has with the turtles (although its minor, and me just probably being overly nit-picky). How old are the turtles and the cast now. In the letter column PL says they are in their thirties, and in ish #6 april makes note that she has been in the company of ninja masters for almost 20 years. So either she met them at 10 and is now 30, met them at 19 and is now 39 or somewhere in between. :D Like I said, silly sidenote. Overall good stuff. Lets just get to a point with the first story arc!

heretic888
02-11-2003, 10:45 PM
i believe in the story the turtles are in their late 20s-early 30s and april and casey are in their late 30's.....

Sparvid
02-12-2003, 04:56 AM
Exactly how old is Shadow?

Kali
02-12-2003, 08:51 AM
Hmm, in Mirage Vol. 4? I'd guess Shadow's around 16.

HorseTechie
02-13-2003, 10:24 AM
One small thing that bugs me, and always has with the turtles (although its minor, and me just probably being overly nit-picky). How old are the turtles and the cast now. In the letter column PL says they are in their thirties, and in ish #6 april makes note that she has been in the company of ninja masters for almost 20 years. So either she met them at 10 and is now 30, met them at 19 and is now 39 or somewhere in between.
Hrmmm.. I have yet to re-read that issue to make certain, but are you sure it was April and not Shadow? Would make more sense if Shad said that.

I generally agree with the main points made her so far too. The story is very detailed, and it leaves ones craving for more! Sometimes I find it very annoying since we have to wait TWO months between issues. Makes the whole thing drag on like a form of chinese torture. j/k! :P

But it is cool that Laird is giving other characters a more complete background. I had often wondered what April's past childhood was like, and why she always mentioned her father but never her mother. (Whereas Casey is the other way around... we get to know his mom but not his dad).

The characterization for the Turtles is so-so. I guess it's come to a low point right now (where earlier it seemed more interesting). But I'm not gonna sweat that yet, since it isn't exactly like City at War and other comics of yore. Could be that Laird's been out of it for a bit too, so many POVs had changed (esp in the absence of Eastmans influence).

heretic888
02-13-2003, 10:32 AM
I still think that Eastman was the 'action' and 'characters' guy, and Laird was more dealing with the epic plots themselves. Oh well. Maybe things will get better in the future.

As for their ages, as far as I know, the turtles are SUPPOSED to be somewhere around 28 to 30. Casey and April are SUPPOSED to be younger than 40 (according to Laird). And Shadow is SUPPOSED to be a teenager (probably 16 to 18 ). Splinter is anybody's guess.

The main problem I have with the series is not the lack of action, for if you recall City at War not every issue was slam-bam action-man, action was only included when it was appropriate to the plot. No, I don't have a problem with the supposed lack of action.

What I DO have a problem with is how some of the turtles, namely Leo and Don, and ESPECIALLY Mike are protrayed. Leo and Don seem like exaggerated caricatures of their old selves and Mike is almost out of character. The non-tmnt characters are being done fairly well though, I suppose.

Cascadia
02-13-2003, 12:57 PM
I also like the vol 4 TMNT stories, but have basically the same complaints and compliments as everyone else. Not enough true action, humans are drawn a bit funny, and no major enemey to speak of. But I love small things like in ish #5 Don (I believe) said they thought about using different colored bandanas so the Utroms could identify them (since weapons are not allowed on their base of operation), but thought that was stupid and went for tatoos instead.

One small thing that bugs me, and always has with the turtles (although its minor, and me just probably being overly nit-picky). How old are the turtles and the cast now. In the letter column PL says they are in their thirties, and in ish #6 april makes note that she has been in the company of ninja masters for almost 20 years. So either she met them at 10 and is now 30, met them at 19 and is now 39 or somewhere in between. :D Like I said, silly sidenote. Overall good stuff. Lets just get to a point with the first story arc!

In that issue, April said it not Shadow. April met the turtles when they were either 13 or 15. Now the turtles are 28, so April have known them for about 13 or 15 years.

Karpo_007
02-13-2003, 12:59 PM
Don't post the same message twice please. Il delete the other one.

Cascadia
02-13-2003, 01:02 PM
Oops......bad computer. It has a mind of its own. :lol:

GordonUniverse
02-13-2003, 02:42 PM
He said the turtles were in their thirtires. Not April.
They were 15 when they met and are now 35. makes perfect sense

CapnJeffro
02-13-2003, 03:39 PM
He said the turtles were in their thirtires. Not April.
They were 15 when they met and are now 35. makes perfect sense

The question appears on the second page of Turtle Tracks, middle letter on the left. The letter says P.S.S.S Exactly how old are Casey and April. And PL replies: I'm not exactly sure, but somewhere in their thirties.

heretic888
02-13-2003, 06:17 PM
Im pretty sure he put the turtles' ages at 28 to 31......

Karpo_007
02-14-2003, 04:09 AM
I don't think the excact age has been said, But if it hapoens 15 years after issue 1, the TMNT should be 30.

heretic888
02-14-2003, 09:34 AM
i believe in the letter column, Laird mentioned they are around 29 to 31..... although admits he hasn't worked out the specifics of all the characters' ages.

Karpo_007
02-14-2003, 09:37 AM
Well it doesn't matter much anyway.