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View Full Version : Official semi-new 2K3-vs.-anime ep discussion, "Legend of the Five Dragons"

gobo
03-01-2008, 10:52 AM
So, now we know the full story about why Splinter despises The 'Tribunal.

Let the comparison resume! :P
Revan
03-01-2008, 10:54 AM
Splinter is wrong in his thinking. The tribunal has bigger things in mind.
But the legend was an entertaining story. I thought the tengu was a bit silly though.
Drtooth
03-01-2008, 10:59 AM
All I can is I wished they got into the Utrom Shredder bit a little more. How did he know about Oroku Saki? Did he just hear it from word of mouth?

But a thrilling episode none the less. I like how they tied in the REAL Shredder to the story. Sure, turning into dragons was a bit goofy (though there seriously has to be some connection on some level with Drago- but someone who's seen the entire thing will point me out wrong). I have to admit, I'm really loving this story arc so far.
ToTheNines
03-01-2008, 11:04 AM
Entertaining episode, kinda. Just wish the Tribunal's fight with Saki would have been an actual fight (before the dragon thing).

Mondo plot holes: The foot mystics have no part at all in this flash back, witch sucks (I might be jumping the gun, I *think* it gets explained later.

THEN this one really pissed me off, and makes me look like a nerd for noticing it: Ancient One says that the Tribunal are the ones who found the art of ninjitsu... but remember back to Season 2's "The Ultimate Ninja", the Daimyo tells the turtles that he and his kind are the ones who came to Earth and passed on the teachings of ninjitsu. HA!
Revan
03-01-2008, 11:08 AM
^ There are actually more plot holes than that in season five. I would give a examples but they are from episodes that have not aired yet
CyberCubed
03-01-2008, 11:10 AM
THEN this one really pissed me off, and makes me look like a nerd for noticing it: Ancient One says that the Tribunal are the ones who found the art of ninjitsu... but remember back to Season 2's "The Ultimate Ninja", the Daimyo tells the turtles that he and his kind are the ones who came to Earth and passed on the teachings of ninjitsu. HA!

Well it could be both. Ninjitsu could have been brought to the Earth by many different people. I don't consider that a plot hole, but its interesting that you brought it up.

Anyway, this episode was really good.
ToTheNines
03-01-2008, 11:18 AM
^ There are actually more plot holes than that in season five. I would give a examples but they are from episodes that have not aired yet

Like when Tengu Shredder calls upon fallen foot ninja, even though he had nothing to do with the foot clan?


Well it could be both. Ninjitsu could have been brought to the Earth by many different people. I don't consider that a plot hole, but its interesting that you brought it up.


Kinda like those two guys who are credited with starting the wave?
Jester
03-01-2008, 11:45 AM
THEN this one really pissed me off, and makes me look like a nerd for noticing it: Ancient One says that the Tribunal are the ones who found the art of ninjitsu... but remember back to Season 2's "The Ultimate Ninja", the Daimyo tells the turtles that he and his kind are the ones who came to Earth and passed on the teachings of ninjitsu. HA!
Could the Tribunal be of the same "kind" as the Daimyo? They're not quite human. Heck the only one that looks truely human is Saki himself.
Revan
03-01-2008, 12:00 PM
The tribunal were all once human beings.
Scandia
03-01-2008, 02:40 PM
Well I love this episode. It is my favorite episode of the 5th season, and one of my top 2k3 episodes period. I love the backstory. I like the way everything connects. Splinter may not know the whole story yet- but it will be revealed.

Remember how the Tribunal learned Ninjitsu from some masters? I think those Masters were the Daimyo's people- who taught Ninjitsu to the tribunal, who passed it on to the ones who are eventually the Foot Clan and the Ancient One and Hamato Yoshi and Splinter and the Turtles. Makes much more sense than Masks- although I think it is comparable to The Legend of Koji.
Sage Ninja
03-03-2008, 12:26 AM
I actually found this episode sort of boring (I was a little dissapointed that the acolytes wheren't in it), but that maybe because it was focused on the tribunal and i'm not big fans of them. Although I did like how it fleshed out their characters and their motivations for doing what they do more.

I did however enjoy the foot mystics opening scene with the defeated kappas (I was suprised that the kappas could talk) and the brutality of the mystics displeasure at them failing at protecting the artifact. Thats the the dark serious aspects of the show that I missed so much.

Splinter is wrong in his thinking. The tribunal has bigger things in mind.

I agree. Even though the Tribunal are self rightous jerks, Splinter's anger towards them is irrational and unfounded.
Buslady
03-03-2008, 08:06 AM
I think the Tribunal can go shove their little dillemma up thier butts. What makes them have the right to make the either fight against their will? They don't wanna do their bidding, they'd all reather go home. I think Splinter's anger towards them is justified cos they plucked them out of their homes, forced them into a life threatening situation and now are being froced to do this crap. They being used as slave warriors.

One problem with the kappa...there was no dip in the top of their heads with the water! That's what they're supposed to look like, the water pours out they're defeated. :P
Masked Ninja
03-03-2008, 08:29 AM
I like how the lead kappa has the exact same voice as Lord Hebi. :P
BubblyShell22
03-03-2008, 09:12 AM
I really liked this episode a lot. The backstory with the true Shredder was interesting and poses some questions as to how the Utrom Shredder found out about Tengu Shredder and stole his whole identity.

As for Splinter being angry, who could blame him? The Tribunal refused to help Master Yoshi with the fake Shredder, which resulted in his murder. Now, they're risking his sons' lives in a battle that they don't want to do alone. I can't blame Splinter for being angry and hating the Tribunal. I feel the same way he does.
Revan
03-03-2008, 12:10 PM
As for Splinter being angry, who could blame him? The Tribunal refused to help Master Yoshi with the fake Shredder, which resulted in his murder. Now, they're risking his sons' lives in a battle that they don't want to do alone. I can't blame Splinter for being angry and hating the Tribunal. I feel the same way he does.

If the tribunal had helped yoshi, he would not have been killed by chrell and the turtles would not know ninjitsu because splinter would not have went to live in the sewers. Thus the world would come to an end when the true shredder was resurected because the human acolytes were obviously too weak to fight them. only the turtles could fight the great evil.

tribunal helps yoshi = the end of the world
BubblyShell22
03-03-2008, 02:28 PM
No, I doubt that. If Ch'rell had been taken care of, Yoshi would have survived to help fight the true Shredder. The Turtles still could have come into existence regardless.
Revan
03-03-2008, 02:42 PM
No, I doubt that. If Ch'rell had been taken care of, Yoshi would have survived to help fight the true Shredder. The Turtles still could have come into existence regardless.

they may have existed but where would they learn ninjitsu? if yoshi lives, splinter would never leave him
triplexxx
03-03-2008, 03:23 PM
No, I doubt that. If Ch'rell had been taken care of, Yoshi would have survived to help fight the true Shredder.Actually, I think the reason the Tribunal couldn't just do away with Shredder in the first place was that it took a spirit of a top "deceased" warrior to actually finish him. They said after the Ancient One told them of his death things are the way it should be...since the turtles were well-advanced warriors, had avatar spirits to match the Tribunal's, and had that familial connection with Yoshi, they could fight him just like the Tribunal could, and then call on Yoshi to finish him off...they defeated him, but to actually kill him, a sacrafice had to be made, Yoshi was it.
Casual Matt
03-03-2008, 03:37 PM
Remember how the Tribunal learned Ninjitsu from some masters? I think those Masters were the Daimyo's people- who taught Ninjitsu to the tribunal, who passed it on to the ones who are eventually the Foot Clan and the Ancient One and Hamato Yoshi and Splinter and the Turtles. Makes much more sense than Masks- although I think it is comparable to The Legend of Koji.

I like this explanation. It explains where the ancient masters got their mystical powers.
ToTheNines
03-03-2008, 04:51 PM
Remember how the Tribunal learned Ninjitsu from some masters? I think those Masters were the Daimyo's people- who taught Ninjitsu to the tribunal, who passed it on to the ones who are eventually the Foot Clan and the Ancient One and Hamato Yoshi and Splinter and the Turtles. Makes much more sense than Masks- although I think it is comparable to The Legend of Koji.

This is the best explanation we can work with, but it's still sketchy.
Scandia
03-03-2008, 06:14 PM
Sketchy or not, it still makes more sense than the one given in Masks.

Although Legend of Koji was a fantastic episode- and its explanation makes sense as well.
BubblyShell22
03-04-2008, 08:36 AM
That explanation is a good one, Scandia and could be correct.

And, guys, sacrifice or not, the Tribunal shouldn't have ignored Yoshi's request. They were arrogant jerks who didn't give a flying f*ck about anything as they are today. I hate them.
Revan
03-04-2008, 11:33 AM
Actually, I think the reason the Tribunal couldn't just do away with Shredder in the first place was that it took a spirit of a top "deceased" warrior to actually finish him. They said after the Ancient One told them of his death things are the way it should be...since the turtles were well-advanced warriors, had avatar spirits to match the Tribunal's, and had that familial connection with Yoshi, they could fight him just like the Tribunal could, and then call on Yoshi to finish him off...they defeated him, but to actually kill him, a sacrafice had to be made, Yoshi was it.

bingo was his nameo
ToTheNines
03-04-2008, 05:06 PM
That explanation is a good one, Scandia and could be correct.

And, guys, sacrifice or not, the Tribunal shouldn't have ignored Yoshi's request. They were arrogant jerks who didn't give a flying f*ck about anything as they are today. I hate them.

Say they did help him... the turtles would either die of starvation or Raph would eat them all and become some creepy turtle that gets killed the first time he leave the sewers because he's not a stealthy ninja.
Ninjinister
03-04-2008, 08:06 PM
Official semi-new 2K3-vs.-anime ep discussion, "Legend of the Five Dragons"
So, now we know the full story about why Splinter despises The 'Tribunal.

Let the comparison resume! :P

Anyone who thinks The Lost Season is anything like anime obviously hasn't watched a lot of the latter. :roll:

There's more anime that it's not like than there is.
gobo
03-04-2008, 08:22 PM
Anyone who thinks The Lost Season is anything like anime obviously hasn't watched a lot of the latter. :roll:

There's more anime that it's not like than there is.
I agree with that. I was simply poking fun at a common complaint against it. ^_^ Being a smartass is a full-time job. :P
Ninjinister
03-04-2008, 08:24 PM
It wasn't just that, but the fact that a certain fellow 'Dromer, whose opinion I normally respect otherwise, once indicated that they "hated anime" (blanket statement) and that "Lost Season was like anime" (blanket statement #2), and thus didn't like Lost Season.
VaughnMichael
03-04-2008, 08:37 PM
Not sure if you're talking about me S, but I don't hate all of the lost season just all the magic crap, it's not needed in the turtles world.
I say save it for the saterday morning anime knock off's, I'd rather not have tmnt be one of those.
BubblyShell22
03-05-2008, 02:20 PM
ToTheNines, that doesn't make any sense. I just don't get that. Whatever, I just don't feel good today.
ToTheNines
03-05-2008, 02:30 PM
ToTheNines, that doesn't make any sense. I just don't get that. Whatever, I just don't feel good today.

Listen, say the Tribunal helps Yoshi, that means Shredder NEVER kills Yoshi. If Yoshi stays alive, then Splinter never leaves his home. If Splinter never leaves, then who's gonna take care of/teach ninjitsu to the Turtles after the accident leaves them in the sewer with the ooze?

I was a bit unclear with my initial explanation.
VaughnMichael
03-05-2008, 02:49 PM
Listen, say the Tribunal helps Yoshi, that means Shredder NEVER kills Yoshi. If Yoshi stays alive, then Splinter never leaves his home. If Splinter never leaves, then who's gonna take care of/teach ninjitsu to the Turtles after the accident leaves them in the sewer with the ooze?

I was a bit unclear with my initial explanation.
Yes then the turtles would have been crazy sewer dwelling creature, they could have ended up like the dark tmnt of FF.
Revan
03-05-2008, 02:52 PM
2thenines is right. the turtles would probably have been caught and studied by scientists. Perhaps the utroms would have found them and raised them but they still would not have learned ninjitsu and would not have been able to fight the true saki.
the world would be ruled by the demon shredder
BubblyShell22
03-06-2008, 01:56 PM
Oh, okay, that does make better sense. However, what if Yoshi did survive the attack and left his home anyway? Maybe the Turtles still could have existed. It may not make much sense, but it could happen. No one knows. That would be a good episode though. Sort of a "What If?" scenario.
Sage Ninja
03-07-2008, 01:37 AM
I think the Tribunal can go shove their little dillemma up thier butts. What makes them have the right to make the either fight against their will? They don't wanna do their bidding, they'd all reather go home. I think Splinter's anger towards them is justified cos they plucked them out of their homes, forced them into a life threatening situation and now are being froced to do this crap. They being used as slave warriors. :P

I ment his anger towards the tribunal for not helping Yoshi, not the Tribunal kidnapping the turtles and forcing them to risk their lives for their purpose. In that case Splinter has every right to be angry at the Tribunal for useing his sons thus. What I ment is that the tribunal had no obligation to help Yoshi with the utrom Shredder. It's not like they where allies or friends and the tribunal refused to help him. I just think in the instance with Yoshi Splinter is letting his emotions rule him instead of seeing clearly.

That would be a good episode though. Sort of a "What If?" scenario.

I disagree I think there has been enough "What If" scenarios! "What If" scenarios have been used to many times in the tmnt universe at this point.
gobo
03-07-2008, 11:09 AM
Examples: What if the whole city was after the Turtles in "Bad Day" and what if the monestary was attacked right now in "Lap of the Gods

But, I think an entire what if episode should be interesting if ever attempted. I just hope it's not during next year's 13-ep season. That'd probably feel like a waste.