Episode discussion: "Fathers & Sons"

[ToTheNines]

Hmmm, probably won't even watch it. Once was enough.

[gobo]

Mikey & the Turtlemunks should have their own movie!



... Oh! :P <==(that means I'm not REALLY crazy)

Forgive me, Ninesey. I couldn't help myself. :embarass:

[VaughnMichael]

Maybe this time round the demon will eat the Mup er TMNT babies.:lol:

[Spitfire]

I'd rather drink my own pee after eating Chinese food then watch this episode again.

[Cure]

I'd rather drink my own pee after eating Chinese food then watch this episode again.

Does Chinese food affect your pee?

[Scandia]

Well I love that episode. I agree that the Infant Turtles character designs could have been better. But otherwise the plot is good. I enjoy watching it every time. I could say it is my second favorite episode of this season.

[VaughnMichael]

Well I love that episode. I agree that the Infant Turtles character designs could have been better. But otherwise the plot is good. I enjoy watching it every time. I could say it is my second favorite episode of this season.
You don't count you're a girl and girls like cutsie baby characters :lol: :P

[Scandia]

I would never assume that just because a person is female that she will automatically like cute or very young characters.

One of my female colleagues hates kids and had a hard time finding a full time job in the system because most of the openings were youth services positions.

[VaughnMichael]

I would never assume that just because a person is female that she will automatically like cute or very young characters.

One of my female colleagues hates kids and had a hard time finding a full time job in the system because most of the openings were youth services positions.
I'm kidding Scandia, I know not all people are the same.
I hate spoiled brat kids wait no sorry I don't I hate their parents for being cowards and not teaching their children and discipline.
You know the ones like when your at the post office or whatever and the parents are trying to do something and all 3 of their obnoxious children are screaming and pulling on her and grabbing at everything around her, oh and you can't forget when she tries to swipe her card and has to sign for it and at once all 3 of her darling little monsters try to push every button. Anycow Weeeeeeee go Baby TMNT!!! :dead:

[gobo]

I would never assume that just because a person is female that she will automatically like cute or very young characters.

One of my female colleagues hates kids and had a hard time finding a full time job in the system because most of the openings were youth services positions.
That's one out of how many? Statistically, females are more inclined than guys to getting all mushy over tykes. Fact of life, miss...

[ToTheNines]

Decided to watch it again and record Spider-man. Still pretty stupid but the fight with Splinter and acient one v. demon was really cool.

I actually forgot that Splinter reveals that he knows that Shredder is an utrom, I don't remember him acting like he knew... stupid plot holes, I guess I can just pretend he didn't say that :roll:

Also, I know everyone bitches about that turtles design in this one, but it wouldn't have seemed so bad to me if they had acutally acted as young as they looked. They were speaking like 7 year olds and lookin like toddlers.

Mikey & the Turtlemunks should have their own movie!



... Oh! :P <==(that means I'm not REALLY crazy)

Forgive me, Ninesey. I couldn't help myself. :embarass:

lol, nice.

[maryshine]

Well I love that episode. I agree that the Infant Turtles character designs could have been better. But otherwise the plot is good. I enjoy watching it every time. I could say it is my second favorite episode of this season.

I loved it as well!! You really got an idea how great Splinter was as a father. I mean, he had to watch those tots 24/7! It's not not he could call a baby-sitter or anything! And he was soo patient with them!!

THe only complaint I have is I had trouble determining the turtles. Who threw the first rock, and who threw the big one that hit the pedant?

[Ninjinister]

Brain fart prevents me from remembering who threw the first rock (might have been Leo), but I think Don might have hit the amulet.

There were things I liked about the episode. The dynamic between Splinter and Ancient One, when they spoke of Yoshi... I like the family aspect of the TMNT. Ancient One, despite often used as comedy relief, displayed a very serious and sad reaction at the news of his son's death. Splinter's own parenting was spotlighted rather well, too.

It was also nice to see that the Mystics weren't sitting on their laurels the entire time they were under Ch'rell's control. That would have made zero sense if they had like, randomly decided to rebel against Karai and resurrect Shredder - they were at it for quite a while.

Ancient One and Splinter's fight against the Bone Demon was awesome. I always enjoy seeing Splinter in action, and we get to see a wee bit of what makes Ancient One a ninjutsu master. I would have preferred, however, if the Bone Demon wasn't just some random henchman of the Mystics, but had some sort of history - like the demonized phantom of Yukio Mashimi, or something.

One thing that bugged me, however, was that Splinter said that they had traveled to Japan right after Yoshi's death. Exactly how much time could have occurred between Yoshi's murder and their mutation?

[Spitfire]

Does Chinese food affect your pee?

Maybe it's just me but Chinese food makes my pee smell most foul. I started noticing it after I had a lot of Chinese food all around the same time and when I went back to other foods there was no smell.

[Leonardo Mystic]

THe only complaint I have is I had trouble determining the turtles. Who threw the first rock, and who threw the big one that hit the pedant?

Leo threw the first rock, and then Don threw the big one to hit the amulet.

I like this episode. I like kids, and tend to get a little mushy over cute and cuddly. However, they could have lost the rabbit teeth design on the turtle tots, and it would've been a lot better; perfect even. They really didn't need that to show how young they were.

They were smaller than what we've seen before, acted younger, and they didn't have their bandanas. That should've been enough.

[prophecy718]

I liked how they looked drunk at the end :lol:

[TerranigmaFreak]

Maybe it's just me but Chinese food makes my pee smell most foul. I started noticing it after I had a lot of Chinese food all around the same time and when I went back to other foods there was no smell.

Did you eat asparagus? Asparagus does that to your pee, not just Chinese food.

Anyway, it was actually a good change of pace for me. I saw this episode before, and I actually still enjoy the rerun.

[maryshine]

[QUOTE
One thing that bugged me, however, was that Splinter said that they had traveled to Japan right after Yoshi's death. Exactly how much time could have occurred between Yoshi's murder and their mutation?[/QUOTE]


I was wondering that myself. I always assumed that the turtles were infants when there mutated, but now I'm not sure.

[Scandia]

Yup, the Turtles were infants when they were mutated.

Yoshi had passed away a while ago. It is possible that Splinter may have just obtained his ashes somehow. Or that he felt that the Turtles were finally old enough to handle a trip to Japan.

It is possible that the Ancient One was telling this part of the story and that he somehow thought that Yoshi had died very recently- when the truth is that it had been a couple years. Just like Splinter mentioned knowing that Shredder was an Utrom (by the time he tells the story, he did), it is possible that the Ancient One mixed up the details as well.

I did have a hard time distinguishing the Turtles. It took me various times rewatching to tell them apart. The only one that was clearly discernable was Donatello.

And many foods do alter people's secretions and excretions- odor, texture, and color wise.

[ToTheNines]

I did have a hard time distinguishing the Turtles. It took me various times rewatching to tell them apart. The only one that was clearly discernable was Donatello.

I only had trouble with Leo and Don. Raph is the dark colored one and Mike is the bluish green one.

[ToTheNines]

Double post: anyone else catch that cool little preview for the "final three" episodes?

[Ninjinister]

Leo threw the first rock, and then Don threw the big one to hit the amulet.


Yay, I was right. Thanks for confirming, Mystic.

I went over to my parents' today, and my mom said it was her favorite episode all season, though she thought the passage of time I indicated earlier was weird. My brother also said he thought perhaps Bone Demon was Mashimi, as well.

[Revan]

I thought it was strange that Splinter refered to chrell as "the utrom shredder" suggesting he knew about chrell the entire time. But it seemed like neither he, nor the turtles knew chrell was an utrom until they finally saw him in his true form at the end of secret origins.:ohwell:

[ToTheNines]

I thought it was strange that Splinter refered to chrell as "the utrom shredder" suggesting he knew about chrell the entire time. But it seemed like neither he, nor the turtles knew chrell was an utrom until they finally saw him in his true form at the end of secret origins.:ohwell:

I'm gonna dismiss it as s**tty/forgetful writing.

[Revan]

yup it's definately a goof

[ToTheNines]

yup it's definately a goof

It's a very annoying goof considering how strong this series is continuity wise. I mean this got past a few writers, probably Pete, Susan Blu, Darren Dunstan, the other VA's and who ever else is in the mix, yet it slapped me right in the face the second I heard it. I dunno :-?

[Casual Matt]

It's really not that big a goof considering there are two good explanations.


Splinter did know the Shredder was an Utrom and simply didn't tell the Turtles. Though I don't consider that as likely.
This wasn't a flashback. This was a story. What we saw was what Splinter was saying.

[Masked Ninja]

The little turtles were cute, but the stupid buck teeth prevented me from enjoying it. I am indeed a girl and enjoy watching Splinter work in a fatherly role, but man! those teeth! And even creepier, their eyes are huge. I dunno, I just start staring in horror at the character models instead of paying attention to dialogue and other important stuff.

The story was OK in and of itself, but why do the Turtles and Splinter have to be tied into everything? It's fun for shows to throw in connections to the past, but too many and I start rolling my eyes. I think the overall story would work much better if Splinter didn't know everything from the start (and just not mention it, what the heck?). He just knows what he as a (admittedly crazy-smart) pet rat kept at home would know - that Shredder killed Yoshi. The end. He might later meet the Ancient One again... a good place might be the Battle Nexus, especially since we know Yoshi had won there at least once before. And either he learns about the Utrom origins of the Shredder there, or he learns about it at the same time as the Turtles. Then when this Tengu Shredder thing becomes relevant (aka, when his sons are taken by the Tribunal), the Ancient One comes and fills him in on that as they rush to find the Turtles. It could also explain why Splinter is so bitter about the Tribunal - if he had learned about their dismissal of the Utrom Shredder on the way, it'd be pretty fresh.

But yeah. The "this goes back much further than you know" stuff, I can only handle so far. Nice to see the Turtles really small (and that they didn't pull magic ninja moves out of their butts as they're probably 3-5 at most) and Splinter as the patient dad, but the annoyances outweighed the plusses for me. Pity.

[Jester]

It's really not that big a goof considering there are two good explanations.


Splinter did know the Shredder was an Utrom and simply didn't tell the Turtles. Though I don't consider that as likely.
This wasn't a flashback. This was a story. What we saw was what Splinter was saying.

That's exactly my though, that the use of the phrase Utrom Shredder was simply from the aspect of the storyteller and not part of the flash back, but then again how would Splinter know of the Tribunal's reluctance to waste their time with the phony Shredder?

[gobo]

Maybe it was a completely made-up story that Splinter and Ancient One made up on the spot to encourage the Turtles?

[Sage Ninja]

Nice to see the Turtles really small (and that they didn't pull magic ninja moves out of their butts as they're probably 3-5 at most) and Splinter as the patient dad, but the annoyances outweighed the plusses for me. Pity.

I pegged the turtles being closer to two years old in this episode rather than three or five. there over-all character designe just lookied more toddlier/babish rather than small child to me. I'm also glad that the turtles as little tykes didn't suddenly start pulling ninja moves out of now where and kicking butt when the bone demon had the ancient one and Splinter on the ropes. That would have been pretty lame and stupid, however I still didn't care for how the baby turtles where able to defeat a vicious demon by throwing rocks at it. The turtle where like two, they shouldn't have the strength or coordination yet to chuck good sized rocks with accuracy a good distance away, at a moving object. :ohwell: My little gripes about this episode was that the baby turtles where voiced by the same VA that voice them as teenagers/young adults. Not that I think they did a bad job, they actually did good, but I think it would have been more convincing and cute if they had got actual child actors to voice the baby turtles. After a while hearing the adult voice actors whimerpering and blubbering like small children it was a little hard not to feel a little embarrassed. :oops: Also I sometimes had a hard time telling the turtles apart even though they are all diffrent skin tones. Like I couldn't tell when Splinter was talking to the ancinet one and the turtles ran off to play which one stayed behind with him for a little while. Or which one first through the rock or who threw that last one that finnished off the demon. I won't even get into the the buck teeth and anime eyes :dead:. But I did think the turtle where cute, especially that scene where they are all sleeping on the futons :tlove: adorable! i loved that close up of Don (I think it was Don:tconfuse:) was sucking his thumb while sleeping.

Over I really liked this episode, I thought the bone demon was cool and threatening looking and I thought it had a nice character design. I liked how the baby turtle where the only ones who could see the demon and the adults couldn't it added a bit of a "ghost story" feel to it that I wish this show would get into more often. But I especially liked the fact that the demon monster terrorised the turtles, actually i think that there should have been more of it, but I think my favorite part was when the the Demon phases through the wall and the turtles wake up and threatens that if they make a sound that it would eat their souls :o wicked harsh! I felt like giving the turtles a hug when they looked at each and then just ran off screaming down the stairs.

[BubblyShell22]

I really enjoyed this episode. Yes, the Turtles having buck teeth was different, but I didn't mind it that much, since I had buck teeth for a long time, even after I got older. That all changed when I got braces. The big eyes were also a shock, but I think the animators wanted to emphasize that the Turtles are a lot younger in this ep than in the previous ones.

The plot was very good and interesting too. I loved how fatherly Splinter was when the Turtles ran out of the room and how the bone demon was really scary by saying he was gonna eat their souls. I'd be scared, too. I also loved the battle between the bone demon, Splinter, and the Ancient One. It was also interesting to see the Turtles receive their masks and to find out that they met the Tribunal when they were kids.

Overall, this was a good episode, and I was satisfied with it.

[Masked Ninja]

Ah yes, the bone demon! I did like its design... iffy on the hands, but its head was cool for sure, as well as that glowy ruff thing it had. Every once in a while, the monster designers do something right. :)

[Jelly Bean]

This episode was pretty awsome I liked seeing the turtles as little babies. I think my favorite scene in the episode was when the turtles look at each in tears after the Bone Demon threatens them

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/kalaneutrino/lost%20season/sons00015.jpg

poor things!!

[triplexxx]

They're just such little huggable cuties aren't they?

[VaughnMichael]

This episode was pretty awsome I liked seeing the turtles as little babies. I think my favorite scene in the episode was when the turtles look at each in tears after the Bone Demon threatens them

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/kalaneutrino/lost%20season/sons00015.jpg

poor things!!
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[Drtooth]

Maybe it was a completely made-up story that Splinter and Ancient One made up on the spot to encourage the Turtles?


Exactly what I was thinking. I don't doubt the part about Splinter going to Japan to tell the aincient one that Hamato Yoshi was dead. But something about it seemed like another "the Journal" moment. Made up stories to teach the turtles a lesson. The fact the Ninja Tribunal wiped their memories pretty much sounded like it was too obvious.

Plus, Ancient's initial response to Splinter saying "Remember the time I took them to see you as kids?" Seemed like nothing really happened.

I really enjoyed this episode, but I'm thanking my lucky stars they decided NOT to have the kiddy turtles in the next season. Really. Bleh. Why the shell do they all have buckteeth? What was that about?

[Sage Ninja]

I also really enjoyed Splinter's tenderness and patients with the little turtles. You got to figure that that he hasn't known the turtles for very long at this point since the muation thing kind of just happened according to the time line. It kind of shows how quickly Splinter got attached to the turtles if he was already acting patient toward them. If he had just encountered them you would think his attitude would be more of obligation toward them of a detached adult who is charged with keeping watch over some children that aren't related to him. But Splinter clearly shows affection and love for the turtles even at this early stage and acts as if they are his own and seems to even understand their personal needs and fears quite well and exibits tolerance for them as well.

I think the scene where the turtles all come running down the stairs to him and he comferts them was a good scene that showed his affection concern for them. It's sweet because, although Splinter is caring father to the turtles as teenagers, he is much more relaxed (sometimes sarcastic) toward the turtles or stern while acting as master to them. this was Splinter acting as just father which was nice since he hasn't as yet taken up the mantle of Master toward the turtles.

Also i noticed a little continuity error in this episode, or maybe it was just an over sight but Splinter is shown to be using a cane to walk with during the second half of the episode. At this early point in the story Splinter shouldn't have a cane because it was revealed in the Big Brawl three-parter that Splinter didn't need a cane until he was injured while at the Battle Nexus which caused to have to use it. But in the later half of this episode is shown having one to walk with as well as fighting with it. :-?