Present Bishop against Future Bishop?

[maryshine]

What if for some reason President Bishop had to come to the present to aid the turtles and ended up battling against his past self, Agent Bishop? Obviously President Bishop couldn’t destroy himself but it would be cool! What do you all think?

[A little *too* Raph]

Might be kinda cool, they could write it so that the visit from president Bishop is what made agent Bishop change his ways or something.

[Jelly Bean]

meh, to clean and cut I would rather see the turtles up against a evil Bishop with a plot that might ruin society and have the turtles have up worry about if they stopped him how it would alter the future.

[Drtooth]

meh, to clean and cut I would rather see the turtles up against a evil Bishop with a plot that might ruin society and have the turtles have up worry about if they stopped him how it would alter the future.

That statement pretty much sums up what went wrong with Fast Forward, especially how it ended early. They had the potential to start up this big, big conspiracy about how Bishop got elected, and his real intentions of letting aliens on Earth (be it a genoside, faking a war between aliens, or what have you). So I always felt deep deep down Bishop could have been planning something that since his long past. But instead, the show devolved into "how childish is Mikey" episodes that did nothing but restate the obvious between character personalities, and their over simplification.

In my mind, if the old Bishop and Future Bishop met, they'd smile, and know that the master plan is finally unfurling.

[VaughnMichael]

I love how everyone wants the future to always be so cliché.

And Bishop vs. Bishop I really think it would be a waste of time.
While present day Bishop is a douche bag I think if he realized the other guys claiming to be him really is him then he'd want to learn everything he could thus changing the future.

Also I wouldn't get your party favors out just yet because there will still be elements of FF in Back To The Sewers.

[Jelly Bean]

much to our regret :roll:

[maryshine]

much to our regret :roll:



Like what stuff from FF will be back?

[gobo]

Wayne Grayson said Serling may be coming back with them. And, the sure-thing is Don applying 2105 technology to the lair.

[VaughnMichael]

much to our regret :roll:
Not everyone's :lol:
I can't wait I hope Viral is in the entire season.
I'd take her any day over an entire season with the Ancient One.

[maryshine]

Wayne Grayson said Serling may be coming back with them. And, the sure-thing is Don applying 2105 technology to the lair.

I can take Don applying 2015 technoglogy. Yet I can't stand Serling! Unless Don wants to dissect him! :lol:

[gobo]

Oh! I forgot to mention Viral. I'm on pain meds now, so that one slipped my mind.
Viral will be a/the big bad of the season, and has adopted The Shredder's fashion sense.

[Ninjafromanotherseries]

Who is Wayne Grayson, I can´t remember.

[AquaParade]

Ok...I've been looking forever. Someone REALLY need's to find this quote, and confirm it with Murphy or something to set us all at ease....It's the one talking about how this new direction is going back to the more serious roots of 2k3....can anyone find it, and possibly ask Murph if that's still the plan?

[gobo]

Who is Wayne Grayson, I can´t remember.
The voice-actor for 2K3 Michelangelo...

[maryshine]

Oh! I forgot to mention Viral. I'm on pain meds now, so that one slipped my mind.
Viral will be a/the big bad of the season, and has adopted The Shredder's fashion sense.


Hmm...Maybe it will be her against Karai at some point? Some girl fighting action is always fun, LOL!

[Wildcat]

Nah I dont want a Bishop vs Future Bishop...the whole problem and what has me a bit worried about the new season is the fact they are going too acknowledge "Fast Forward".It just seems to be too hard to write present day plots and problems because of everything the Turtles know about the future cause there will always be "dont do this/do this because it will alter the future" and there will always be room for rediculous arguments about if something happens or travels through time will it will contradict future and present storylines.

Like the second comment on here...President Bishop travels back in time sees his evil-self so thats why he wants to become President?...well thats impossible,at whatever point Bishop decided to become President has nothing to do with him traveling through time,thats saying...he becomes President,travels back in time to Present day and sees his evil-self and then decides to become President ???...he already became President for a totally diffrent reason and may have even become President before time-travel was even invented....

See thats what I mean about storylines that will contradict themselves and arguments that will try to explain it all,which is impossible because at this point everythings a mess,and why I wish they would just pick up after the Lost Season.

FF was,what it was...it had some pretty good episodes but its better left as its own side series.

[Jelly Bean]

Not everyone's :lol.

ok obviously not yours :P but mine and a few others :lol:

[The Big Bad]

Nah I dont want a Bishop vs Future Bishop...the whole problem and what has me a bit worried about the new season is the fact they are going too acknowledge "Fast Forward".It just seems to be too hard to write present day plots and problems because of everything the Turtles know about the future cause there will always be "don’t do this/do this because it will alter the future" and there will always be room for ridiculous arguments about if something happens or travels through time will it will contradict future and present storylines.

Like the second comment on here...President Bishop travels back in time sees his evil-self so thats why he wants to become President?...well that’s impossible, at whatever point Bishop decided to become President has nothing to do with him traveling through time, thats saying...he becomes President, travels back in time to Present day and sees his evil-self and then decides to become President ???...he already became President for a totally different reason and may have even become President before time-travel was even invented....

See thats what I mean about storylines that will contradict themselves and arguments that will try to explain it all,which is impossible because at this point everything’s a mess, and why I wish they would just pick up after the Lost Season.

FF was, what it was...it had some pretty good episodes but its better left as its own side series.

You're thinking too hard about this. All the writers need to do is to avoid creating obvious paradoxes (for example, killing of Agent Bishop or restoring Baxter Stockman's body) and everything should be fine. After all, what do the turtles know? That April and Casey start a family; that they, along with Donny, create O'Neil Tech; that Bishop and Stockman are still in black-ops until sometime in the 2050s; and the circumstances leading to Bishop's change of heart. Not only that, if the events of The Journal taught them anything, is that willfully trying to change the future is not a good thing.

Besides, what's to say they can change the future, even if they tried? So far, the series has used the Gargoyles model of time travel: you can change things, but these will result in the already-established present (or future); the second Savanti Romero story—where history is unchanged despite the turtles’ three-month long stay in the Cretaceous Period and butterfly effect warnings—suggests this is also the case here. So in effect, the guys are safe—they can do what they will without worrying about making Cody non-existent.

Put it this way: yes, the guys will change the future. What will it change into? Into the future we’ve already seen. Had the turtles not traveled to the future, O’Neil Tech would have most likely not existed, and the year 2105 would have certainly been far different from what we saw in Fast Forward.

[Wildcat]

You're thinking too hard about this. All the writers need to do is to avoid creating obvious paradoxes (for example, killing of Agent Bishop or restoring Baxter Stockman's body) and everything should be fine. After all, what do the turtles know? That April and Casey start a family; that they, along with Donny, create O'Neil Tech; that Bishop and Stockman are still in black-ops until sometime in the 2050s; and the circumstances leading to Bishop's change of heart. Not only that, if the events of The Journal taught them anything, is that willfully trying to change the future is not a good thing.

Besides, what's to say they can change the future, even if they tried? So far, the series has used the Gargoyles model of time travel: you can change things, but these will result in the already-established present (or future); the second Savanti Romero story—where history is unchanged despite the turtles’ three-month long stay in the Cretaceous Period and butterfly effect warnings—suggests this is also the case here. So in effect, the guys are safe—they can do what they will without worrying about making Cody non-existent.

Put it this way: yes, the guys will change the future. What will it change into? Into the future we’ve already seen. Had the turtles not traveled to the future, O’Neil Tech would have most likely not existed, and the year 2105 would have certainly been far different from what we saw in Fast Forward.

Well I guess that makes sense,except for that last part...If the Turtles had never traveled to the future O'Neil Tech may have never existed??? Thats just like the Bishop argument.There was a chance that O'Neil Tech would have never been if the Turtles had not accidentally gone through time? Im sorry but that makes no sense.

Thats like saying theres a chance thier might be another war in 20 years if someone doesnt invent a time-machine now and travels to the year 2028 to stop it from happening...it just doesnt work that way.

[odupianist]

Wildcat, you don't know that their future travel was accidental. Big Bad was trying to say, much like in Gargoyles (great show), you can't escape was is already predestined. Now destiny vs molding your own destiny is another argument in itself, but you could use the predestined idea in turtles for this stuff and it would work.

[gobo]

Why else would Renet and her boss not interfere? It's a Twelve Monkees scenario. Their destinies can be changed, but it'd take lots and lots of effort. Plus, remember that this is just fiction. If it was exactly like how things work in reality, the show would be boring. Right? I wouldn't watch a TMNT reality show. :sick:

[Casual Matt]

Well I guess that makes sense,except for that last part...If the Turtles had never traveled to the future O'Neil Tech may have never existed??? Thats just like the Bishop argument.There was a chance that O'Neil Tech would have never been if the Turtles had not accidentally gone through time? Im sorry but that makes no sense.

I think what he's saying is that the future the Turtles got sucked into in Season Six is the result of the Turtles having seen the future and gotten back to their own time.

The end of the episode "The Journal" supports this by showing April, Casey, and the Turtles with a "Welcome Back" banner behind them.

This definitely implies that the Journal tells about the Turtles coming back from the future, meaning the history of events up until 2105 involves the Turtles traveling to the future, and coming back.

Basically, the Turtles going to the future and coming back doesn't change the history of the world established in 2105 because it's already a part of history.

[The Big Bad]

Well I guess that makes sense,except for that last part...If the Turtles had never traveled to the future O'Neil Tech may have never existed??? Thats just like the Bishop argument.There was a chance that O'Neil Tech would have never been if the Turtles had not accidentally gone through time? Im sorry but that makes no sense.

The O'Neil Tech bit is mostly speculation of my part: Where and when is Donny first given the idea to create a technology company? The year 2105.
Would Casey, April, or Donny have created something like O'Neil Tech had the turtles not traveled into the future? Not very likely: Donny and April may have the know-how, but not the will or the business savvy necessary to carry out such a venture--they'd have been crushed by established players (The Foot being the most obvious). Add that the various issues surrounding Donny, and the fact that Casey and April, while middle class, appear to be on solid ground, economically speaking, and there's no reason why the thought would occur to them.

Now enter a time travelling trip and the influence of one Cody Jones. Donny not only gets the idea for a company (if he didn't have it before--not likely, as I've said before) but he knows that it will succeed beyond his wildest dreams. Not only that, but Donny gets exposed to a New York in which a metric ton of technology has been introduced and normalized, and get not only an idea of how it works, but how it will sell. After he returns to the past, he discusses the idea with Casey and April (although perhaps not their origins) and bam! O'Neil Tech is born.

[Wildcat]

Casual Matt-

I see what your saying but in the episode "The Journal", in the end the Journal was a fake and writen by Cody and/or Splinter to teach the Turtles a lesson.

-------------------------------

The Big Bad-

Im sorry but that still can not make sense.O'Neil Tech was already existing when the Turtles got to the future,to say Donny got the idea while they were in the year 2105 doesnt make sense...because whether or not thier traveling through time was on accident O'Neil Tech was bound too be created no matter what.

[X]

There is another interesting tidbit I have mentioned before about the whole time travel thing.

If we are to follow the physics of time that allows Donny to form O'Neil Tech because he visited the future (which makes sense,) then imagine what the Shredder knows now.

Afterall, if you will remember, the future Leo went back to the night they first fought Shredder, which allowed him to visit the future. What if Shredder got curious, or even better, what if the foot grabbed a piece of tech from the future and for some reason he is no longer trapped on an ice asteroid?

You guys do remember this line? "Take it all, for the foot." He obviously meant the tech that was there.

-X-

[Casual Matt]

Casual Matt-

I see what your saying but in the episode "The Journal", in the end the Journal was a fake and writen by Cody and/or Splinter to teach the Turtles a lesson.

I was referring to the picture shown at the end of the episode.

That was from the real journal.

[Wildcat]

I was referring to the picture shown at the end of the episode.

That was from the real journal.

Oh...?...hmmm,I thought the whole thing was fake,I dont quite remember that.

[Casual Matt]

Oh...?...hmmm,I thought the whole thing was fake,I dont quite remember that.

It's at the very end of the episode. It shows Cody with the real journal.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3091/17io3.jpg

[Wildcat]

It's at the very end of the episode. It shows Cody with the real journal.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3091/17io3.jpg

Ahh...I think I slightly remember it now.Wow,by doing that they have really blown the door wide open for contradictions,paradoxs and otherwise storyline chaos...but as mentioned before Im thinking about all this waaaay too deeply.

If you knew me in person youd know Im a bit of a perfectionist and like to have everything right and in order...many people have told me this,and its true :P

Not that I dont like wierd and crazy storylines...I love Sci-Fi and Horror movies...its just with this,its not how the 2k3 TMNT cartoon was meant to be.Many people hate FF,I dont..its ok and like Iv said it had some decent episodes but I just feel it overcomplicates things by keeping it part of the main series....there I go digging into it again :D

[odupianist]

Actually using the theory that every thing that has/will happen/ed and won't change, Shredder won't have any affect on the past.