Is Back to the sewer going to be a good show

[Turtleman100]

Did you guys see the new look of casey april and leo. What do you guys think.

[Scandia]

Hey, it's the Turtles. Of course it will be.

[gobo]

I can say with absolute certainty that this show has the potential to be good. In other words: absolutely maybe.

[AquaParade]

I have a feeling this one is gonna do good. I'm even excited over the new facial expressions...I just get the feeling that they put some care into this season.

[GK Punk]

I just get the feeling that they put some care into this season.

I agree. Why else would a 4kids rep hang around here? It seems like they are trying to please their hard core fans (People like us) in addition to the kids.

[maryshine]

I just wish I could see a picture of what Karai is going to look like. I'm curious.

[VaughnMichael]

No it's going to be horrid and not dark at all and have each turtle with a kid sidekick.:roll::lol:

[Roseangelo]

No it's going to be horrid and not dark at all and have each turtle with a kid sidekick.:roll::lol:

Careful how you joke; they almost went with that. ;)

[Machias Banshee]

:lol: Poor Splinter would have a nervous breakdown...

I'm looking forward to the show, but part of me is kinda down on the idea of Splinter not being around. he's a big part of why I (and some friends) watch the show. Not having Splinter around is like.... Bonanza without Ben Cartwright. It's just Not the same...

[VaughnMichael]

Careful how you joke; they almost went with that. ;)
hah true but I ment more like each turtle would have a kid sidekick like Cody.

Oh don't forget each turtles now turns into a robot that can transform into a chi animal spirit and shoots hyper lazers from its eyes.

Also Shredder and Baxters heads get married next season since the mayor of nyc finally gave in and allowed living head marriages.

It'll be chalk full of super heros the turtles really won't have much to do with the season and splinter will be replaced by a short fat mister miyagi type of guy as their sensei.

Hun will open a dojo and give up his life of crime, while karai and chapin settle down in the bronks and have 5 kids.

Karai becomes a house wife raising her children in the way of the foot and chaplin becomes the head of the nyc branch of best buys geek squad.

April becomes a living drawing and casey tries to overcome a steriod problem in a very touching episode.

[Jo Dawn]

Careful how you joke; they almost went with that. ;)

Are you serious? Forget Splinter, *I* would have had a nervous breakdown.

And probably given up ALL TMNT hope.

[gobo]

Bonanza without Ben Cartwright

*pretends to understand that* I hear ya' about the lack of Splinter. But, it hasn't been said yet that they won't have communication with him all season so he can continue to dispense his usual brand of wisdom. :) And, should we be so lucky, we'll see Splinter come out fighting as soon as they defrag him.
and splinter will be replaced by a short fat mister miyagi type of guy as their sensei
He's too busy with the Tribunal. *fingers crossed* :sweatdro:

[Roseangelo]

Are you serious? Forget Splinter, *I* would have had a nervous breakdown.

And probably given up ALL TMNT hope.

Have you forgotten so soon (not that I could blame you)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/overload.jpg

[GK Punk]

What in the hell is that

[Roseangelo]

Ok, since it seems people need a link: TMNT Overload (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/tmnt-overload-not.html)

[GK Punk]

Oh I had a lot going on at that time and wasn't paying... well any attention to TMNT. I am very glad that got nixed.

[Jo Dawn]

Have you forgotten so soon (not that I could blame you)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/overload.jpg

What... the over loving.... I had not seen that. No. No I had not. Seriously? You almost made me cry. Or scream. Or laugh. I'm not sure. The tumult of emotions running through me has me highly confused.


*shorts out*



Seriously. I kinda wanna laugh and cry. It's ludicrous and a death knell that it even got approved.

We got from 'The Suite Life with Zack and Cody' to 'Adventures in Babysitting'...

[Casual Matt]

I agree. Why else would a 4kids rep hang around here? It seems like they are trying to please their hard core fans (People like us) in addition to the kids.

Of course, they could completely ignore the kids, who'll be happy as long as the turtles fight stuff.

[VaughnMichael]

What... the over loving.... I had not seen that. No. No I had not. Seriously? You almost made me cry. Or scream. Or laugh. I'm not sure. The tumult of emotions running through me has me highly confused.


*shorts out*



Seriously. I kinda wanna laugh and cry. It's ludicrous and a death knell that it even got approved.

We got from 'The Suite Life with Zack and Cody' to 'Adventures in Babysitting'...
Yeah aproved by Peter Laird and yet he turned down stories based on the archie comics. This is when I was losing hope in him I'd have Fast Foward any day over that tmnt babies crap.

[Drtooth]

Karai becomes a house wife raising her children in the way of the foot and chaplin becomes the head of the nyc branch of best buys geek squad.


Or the other direction, where Karai becomes a fat shrewish house wife with bratty kids who always beat up on poor Chaplin. It's pure 1950's comedy gold.

And watch the sparks fly when Mother moves in.

[VaughnMichael]

Or the other direction, where Karai becomes a fat shrewish house wife with bratty kids who always beat up on poor Chaplin. It's pure 1950's comedy gold.

And watch the sparks fly when Mother moves in.
That's it we're going down to 4kids and taking over da joint!:lol:

[Turtleman100]

Wow this topic is still on here.

[ToTheNines]

What were the other 2 stupid ideas? I remember one was a card game and the other has slipped my mind.

[Roseangelo]

What were the other 2 stupid ideas? I remember one was a card game and the other has slipped my mind.

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)

[Jester]

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)
An idea, I kinda liked. At least aspects of it. Sounds like it'd have Archie bits, and theres where I'd be sold, and where Peter Laird did the big thumbs down.

[Drtooth]

Can't stop thinking about Karai being an unpleasant Obahan (Japanese term for grouchy old woman that let herself go- as per my understanding).

Anyway, I can only hope this is better than the writing of FF. I'm not going into that one again. I just want my characters to be subtle, not broad stereotypes or generalizations.

[Dan]

What were the other 2 stupid ideas? I remember one was a card game and the other has slipped my mind.
Huh card game? Do you have a link to that?

[ToTheNines]

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)

That's right, I remember being pissed about that.

Huh card game? Do you have a link to that?

It was called Super World, and no I don't.

[Spitfire]

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)

Sounds good to me. A series that used characters from other universe besides Mirage would work quite well. I wish they'd picked that over what their doing now. The only thing I think might turn sour was "upping the humor level" but I thought FF was a lot funnier then 2K3 was so I guess that could work too.

[Raphael_]

4babies.tmnt

[Jo Dawn]

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)

I like how they referred to the new movie as 'grungy'. Whoever writes that saw the wrong movie.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I would have loved to have seen Ultimate TMNT if it had brought back Bebop and Rocksteady. I think they'd be a great duo if they were written to be a little more competent.

A card game? Really? That sounds dumber than the TMNT/little kid turtles team up.

[Machias Banshee]

I'm hoping they'll give us some more sneak peeks about the storylines. I've had a few requests and suggestions to continue writing Episode teasers like I'd done a couple years back... though I'd probably have some serious competition with our local 4Kids Rep. :)


Maaaaaaybe our local Rep could give some 'insight' on upcoming ep summaries when the time comes? *bats big ol' anime eyes*

[Raven]

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)

I would have liked this if they dumped the idea but kept the name and um...looked at SpawnGuy and my....um fan comic under the same name:D


What?! You cant blame me! That would be awesome.....

[Drtooth]

You know... the more I think about it, the less likely Ultimate TMNT would have been anyway. I think they could have altered it to fit 2k3, but half the stuff in the series (going back to the 80's origin of Hamato Yoshi Splinter) wouldn't have worked unless they started all over. It's something that I'd say to look for 5 years after this version ends.

It does sound like a great idea, but it also sounds more like a full fledged relaunch than a new season.

[Casual Matt]

Yeah, and I'm somewhat attached to the current turtles. But I'm still waiting for something to impress me as much as the first season did.

[gobo]

sounds more like a full fledged relaunch than a new season.
That was the majority of my complaint with the 'Ultimate' idea. As much as I'd love to see Archie-version anything on TV, it just wasn't the right time for it. It'd get all the audience who were only familiar with or cared about the 2K3 continuity totally confused about why long-standing facts were all of a sudden not so anymore, they'd lose interest rather than restart their understanding of the characters, and that would make our experiment in TMNT Adventures on the small screen be a triumph for Laird so he could say, "See? I told you this would never work". The rest of my issue with 'Ultimate' was Ruin (previously known as the overgrown Garbage Pail Kid, Mutagen Man). I detested the character, mainly for being uninspired.

[Fugitoid Jones]

What's up with Peter Laird? Why does he seem to hate anything related to the old toon and Archie universe? Is it just because HE didn't create the characters in those universes?

[Jo Dawn]

I'd say it's because it's what truly killed his original image (no pun intended) of his characters. Sure, it was popular in its day, but it's completely limited things now.

Not that I'd be quite proud of it, either. I feel using stupidity as humor is beneath what real writers can actually do.

[X]

I think the humor in the old cartoon would make more sense to an adult, then a child. In that I mean the old show had great humor, unlike some cartoons these days.

It still holds up pretty well in my eyes, and I am 29.

I am however, glad they made this new show more action packed, and less on the humor, as that should remain with the old show. I also hope that Rich Fogel, Marty Isenberg, and there's one more who writes for TMNT, writing for Transformers, return to write the new season.

-X-

[Roseangelo]

Not that I'd be quite proud of it, either. I feel using stupidity as humor is beneath what real writers can actually do.

But that's basically how Mike is written now.

Whatever you may say or think about the OT, the NT has NOT served as the ultimate bandaid that some people make it out to be.

And the Archie series shouldn't ever, EVER be compared to the OT. I'd be more interested in knowing why that gets continually shunned.

[ToTheNines]

I think the humor in the old cartoon would make more sense to an adult, then a child. In that I mean the old show had great humor, unlike some cartoons these days.


Yeah, I never though of the OT as a funny show when I was a kid, now I laugh all the time.

The one thing that chaps my ass when it comes to the OT is those damn cheap ass jokes at the end of almost every episode. For a show that I consider funny it's unbelievable how bad they are.

[VaughnMichael]

And the Archie series shouldn't ever, EVER be compared to the OT. I'd be more interested in knowing why that gets continually shunned.
Yeah I don't get it Mirage had so much to do with the Archie series it's not even funny.
I know the other guys are constantly pushing for Archie stuff to be done but Peter always says no or turns it down.
But what Ryan Brown said about a month ago on his blog has me thinking they're up to something and Peter has calmed down about it now and realizes that he's got many great universes with the TMNT, not just one.
Yeah, I never though of the OT as a funny show when I was a kid, now I laugh all the time.

The one thing that chaps my ass when it comes to the OT is those damn cheap ass jokes at the end of almost every episode. For a show that I consider funny it's unbelievable how bad they are.
hw odd me also, I never laughed once as a kid but as an adult I find so many things in the old toon funny that before went right over my head.

[Roseangelo]

The one thing that chaps my ass when it comes to the OT is those damn cheap ass jokes at the end of almost every episode. For a show that I consider funny it's unbelievable how bad they are.

Wasn't that common for cartoons from that time, though? I think it was mostly a device because they didn't know how else to end the episodes.

[VaughnMichael]

Wasn't that common for cartoons from that time, though? I think it was mostly a device because they didn't know how else to end the episodes.
Yes, Thundercats and g.i. joe have it also I'm pretty sure where allot of characters are together at the end and it ends with them all laughing at something.

[GK Punk]

Every Filmation cartoon did that to at the time.

[gobo]

And the Archie series shouldn't ever, EVER be compared to the OT. I'd be more interested in knowing why that gets continually shunned.
It was a spin-off of the classic 'toon. That seems like the only reasonable reason would treat it like a red-headed step-child.

[Roseangelo]

It was a spin-off of the classic 'toon. That seems like the only reasonable reason would treat it like a red-headed step-child.

Except that when it stopped doing episode adaptations it had NOTHING in common with the cartoon.

[gobo]

That's an exaggeration, and you know it. :P There were plenty of characters borrowed from the 'toon that appeared in the Archie series from time to time, and they more explicitly highlighted the fact when Sarnath showed up to reclaim his eye. Deny it if you want, but it's the unfortunate reality of the situation. The classic 'toon is intimately tied to the Archie comic series.

[Jelly Bean]

And that's why Peter Laird doesn't care for it?

[VaughnMichael]

That's an exaggeration, and you know it. :P There were plenty of characters borrowed from the 'toon that appeared in the Archie series from time to time, and they more explicitly highlighted the fact when Sarnath showed up to reclaim his eye. Deny it if you want, but it's the unfortunate reality of the situation. The classic 'toon is intimately tied to the Archie comic series.
Yes but Archie took things from the cartoon and made them better and ran off doing it's own thing.
I wish the old toon could be half as good as some of the stories in the archie series.

[Roseangelo]

Leatherhead and the Rat King are in nearly every TMNT universe, yet I don't think you'll see people using that argument to say that the Mirage comics and the original toon are similar.

None of the characters in the Archie series, the Turtles themselves included, have the same personality as their cartoon counterparts. IMO that's the most important thing to consider when attempting to compare the two.

[gobo]

And that's why Peter Laird doesn't care for it?
That's my guess. No other reason I can come up with makes half as much sense...
Yes but Archie took things from the cartoon and made them better
That's a given.
I wish the old toon could be half as good as some of the stories in the archie series.
Me too. The Archie books were all I had to keep me interested in TMNT past season three. I often wanted them to incorporate characters from the Archie books in the show, but as soon as they did, I figured out why that wasn't such a good idea...
Leatherhead and the Rat King are in nearly every TMNT universe, yet I don't think you'll see people using that argument to say that the Mirage comics and the original toon are similar.

None of the characters in the Archie series, the Turtles themselves included, have the same personality as their cartoon counterparts. IMO that's the most important thing to consider when attempting to compare the two.
I was actually referring to Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady. And, I never said the Archie books were like the classic 'toon. I'm just trying to explain why Laird might be as hard on it as he is on the cartoon. The continuity of the book was spun-off from a defamation of the characters that Laird would likely rather forget. I don't agree with it because there's no denying that TMNT Adventures was vastly superior to the TV series. It's like a Mirage remix of the show. But, just because you don't like your lineage doesn't mean you can make a new one. Comprende, amiga? (...so close to a Michaelangelo quote. Why'd ya' hafta go and be female, Rose? :lol: ) Now, had you said the two shared hardly anything in common, I wouldn't have said a thing. ;)

[Kendamu]

But that's basically how Mike is written now.

Whatever you may say or think about the OT, the NT has NOT served as the ultimate bandaid that some people make it out to be.

And the Archie series shouldn't ever, EVER be compared to the OT. I'd be more interested in knowing why that gets continually shunned.
2k3 may not be the ultimate band-aid, but stupidity can be used in a wider variety of situations than "Dude, [nsert unrelated thing here] really makes me want a pizza!" every other line out of Mikey's mouth.

[Roseangelo]

2k3 may not be the ultimate band-aid, but stupidity can be used in a wider variety of situations than "Dude, [nsert unrelated thing here] really makes me want a pizza!" every other line out of Mikey's mouth.

How about not selling Mike as stupid, period? :)

[VaughnMichael]

How about not selling Mike as stupid, period? :)
Yeah quite frankly this is why I liked the Image series becaue for once Mike didn't get the shaft and he wasn't a friggin drolling idiot.

[cormano]

I hope it's good. I haven't been keeping up with the cartoon, or any cartoon really, for the last couple years. I just got caught up on Spectacular Spider-Man a few weeks ago, though and now I'm dying to get back into more cartoons… TMNT, of course being at the top of the list.

I like the look a lot and "Back to the Sewers" being the subtitle gives me hope…

[Machias Banshee]

Hey, I remember you. Welcome back..!

This new season is definitely looking more and more interesting.

My only wish was that the storyline wasn't so cyber-future related. AND Splinter's been demoted to little more than a pokemon-type figure - gotta collect 'em all!

[Drtooth]

Every Filmation cartoon did that to at the time.

And let's not forget Every Single Super Mario Super Show episode. They can easily be summed up as

Blah Blah Blah Pasta joke.

Blah Blah Blah Mario is fat, therefore likes to eat.

Mario Eating.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Fade out.

How about not selling Mike as stupid, period?

I wouldn't mind him being the most out of the loop character, if that wasn't all that was to him recently. The way I see him is similar to Dale from Rescue rangers. Not so much stupid, as the youngest acting, and most immature. But when it comes right down to it, he'll fight as hard as any of them... just crack more jokes as he's doing it. The occassional act of cowardice, yes... we'll see that. But he's no less a hero than the others.

I always get on the same soap box about how they devolved the character in FF, but they did that with mostly eveyone anyway. I just want to see him the way I think about him, not as generic comic relief.

[Kendamu]

How about not selling Mike as stupid, period? :)
I've only seen bits and pieces after the second season of the show (mostly the really important stuff), but I usually interpreted Mikey's "stupidity" as something he did kind of purposefully. Y'know, like telling a corny joke on purpose, only funnier. The only reason I might think this, though, is because I'll do the same thing a lot. The only big difference is that people usually know I'm joking so they laugh instead of hitting me.

So, I'm not really offended for Mikey because of the "stupid."

[Roseangelo]

I've only seen bits and pieces after the second season of the show

Ah, well I really didn't have many issues with Mike for the first few seasons. But once they finished all of the comic adaptations they could do, he seemed to slowly degrade. And then there was Fast Forward... I think what I fear most is BttS pulling Mike's character from FF. And I think the problems for ALL of the characters in FF stems from writers not being familiar enough with the TMNT, thus being forced to write each character very generically. 4kids suddenly bringing in all these non-TMNT writers was the truly stupid move.

[Newton Gimmick]

Mike needs to act like "Sock" from Reaper, but with less jazz. I'm down with a more caring Mike too. As opposed to some of the silliness. I think the NT was on the right track but amped him up in later seasons. If they can tone him back down a bit I'll be content.

[Sage Ninja]

Ah, well I really didn't have many issues with Mike for the first few seasons. But once they finished all of the comic adaptations they could do, he seemed to slowly degrade. And then there was Fast Forward... I think what I fear most is BttS pulling Mike's character from FF. And I think the problems for ALL of the characters in FF stems from writers not being familiar enough with the TMNT, thus being forced to write each character very generically. 4kids suddenly bringing in all these non-TMNT writers was the truly stupid move.

another Mikey debate. I sort of agree about the comic adaption versions of Mikey vs. the orginal stuff. In Notes from the Underground Mikey was painful to watch until the very few scenes where he mans up and saves every one, but through out he was just a cowardly lion character. I think from the very beginning the writers had what Mikey was going to be like, and now they've just exgerated it.

[Jelly Bean]

I'm confused on something, why is it that it seems it's mostly the Mikey fans that seem to be the most critical of him? :-? He's always been immature and childish but he's been like that since day one. I don't think Mikey is that much diffrent than how he's always been portrayed through out the series. And I don't think he's that bad, you people make him sound like he's a blithering idiot all the time. :ohwell:

[odupianist]

Because we know Mikey the best and know how he should be portrayed. I think the FF portrayal is a bad version of Mikey. I think Mike should be the goofball and comic nut, BUT there is a limit and a point where he gets annoying.

[Sage Ninja]

honestly I just wish the writers would concentrate more on his good qualities rather than his flaws and exploiting them for a cheap laugh.

[Drtooth]

Because we know Mikey the best and know how he should be portrayed. I think the FF portrayal is a bad version of Mikey. I think Mike should be the goofball and comic nut, BUT there is a limit and a point where he gets annoying.

The FF portayal of EVERY character was a bad one. Leo, maybe stayed the same, but everyone else (once again) was exaggerations of their most basic personalities.

Hell, Splinter pretty much turned into a grandmother half the time, watchin' his stories. Shame to see a once in a while joke turned into the only thing that the character did.

[CyberCubed]

The FF portayal of EVERY character was a bad one. Leo, maybe stayed the same, but everyone else (once again) was exaggerations of their most basic personalities.

Donatello wasn't any different either. Raph was just a tad more grouchy and Mike more immature, that was about it.

[Drtooth]

Donatello wasn't any different either. Raph was just a tad more grouchy and Mike more immature, that was about it.

Well, Donny's Geek-a-tude was amped up, While Raph's attitude was turned from angst ridden teen of the group to :

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/c/c9/OG-p0002-ST.jpg

The depth of the characters was lost, perhaps with the new writers.

[Lil G]

The other one was less than stupid: Ultimate TMNT (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/10/ultimate-tmnt-also-not.html)



DEE DEE DER to playmates! why would you guys even think of bringing the ot splinter back to the sewers (lol)? i mean, it would just flip the whole series around upside down. everything else seemed good excapt the tie in with the movie part. i mean, they would just want to change the whole series like that. so messed up. but i think that the best pitch they made was the tmnt babysitting themselves. it wouldve been kool for mikey to see how annying he is, lol. playmates toys is really dumb for taking that pitch away and proposing this ultimate tmnt pitch. they aren't thinkin right lately.wierd though, i was thinking about something like that overload pitch before the news came out and spread on the internet.

[Jelly Bean]

Well, Donny's Geek-a-tude was amped up, While Raph's attitude was turned from angst ridden teen of the group to :

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/c/c9/OG-p0002-ST.jpg

why not they are both green and both live/lived in substandard conditions.

Because we know Mikey the best and know how he should be portrayed. I think the FF portrayal is a bad version of Mikey. I think Mike should be the goofball and comic nut, BUT there is a limit and a point where he gets annoying.

yeah I understand but you guys make it seem like he doesn't have any redeeming qualites.

[Revan]

yeah I understand but you guys make it seem like he doesn't have any redeeming qualites.
when you've read the books and then seen the show/movies, you'll understand

[Ra]

Well, Donny's Geek-a-tude was amped up, While Raph's attitude was turned from angst ridden teen of the group to :

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/c/c9/OG-p0002-ST.jpg

The depth of the characters was lost, perhaps with the new writers.
Bravo, sir. Bravo. :lol:

So, is "Back to the Sewers" going to be a good show? I'm trying not to get excited to avoid another "Fast Forward" moment, but I can't help it; I've got high hopes. It's extremely exciting just to see new takes on old faces, and the possibility of new characters and new stories. After all, the most important things about a cartoon are it's designs, animation, and story. We've got great designs right now, so all we need to see are the designs in action, and then finally the show itself for it's story and storytelling abilities. Hard not to start getting excited, to be honest.

[METALHEAD]

http://ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/btts/new-don-front-back.jpg http://ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/btts/new_leo_color.jpg http://ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/btts/new_don_heads.jpg http://ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/btts/new_leo_heads.jpg http://ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/btts/new_leo_rotation.jpg http://ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/btts/new_don_rotation.jpg

Check it out

[Warhorse]

^The links have been broken to the pics you were trying to show us, but were they the ones showing Leo and Don?

Wonder if we can get us some actual animation of the new Turtles? See how they move and stuff. You know what I mean? Because it's going to be a long summer waiting for the debut of Back to the Sewers.

[GK Punk]

Yeah the images he linked are the same ones that are in the blog thread.

[Ra]

Yeah. You can see them in the 4Kids official TMNT blog anyways. Still looking forward to those new pictures of Raph...the only thing that's keeping me going this week, sadly enough.

Wonder if we can get us some actual animation of the new Turtles? See how they move and stuff. You know what I mean? Because it's going to be a long summer waiting for the debut of Back to the Sewers.
As long as it's nothing like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo8nmglZgNE&NR=1), I'll be happy.

[VaughnMichael]

As long as it's nothing like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo8nmglZgNE&NR=1), I'll be happy.
hahahahahahha that's a poor choice to compare tmnt to lmao speed racer has always been like that lol:lol:

[Ra]

Not really a poor choice, to be honest. In fact, I think I picked well. That thing you just saw was a series made in America, not in Japan. Sure it was Speed Racer, but it wasn't the original series. That series was only put to air this year, and is a perfect example of how bad animation can make anything terrible to watch.

We currently have the technology and skill to make smooth animation, yet we can still get things like that floating up. I still stand by what I said; if Back to the Sewers ends up looking like...like THAT, well...I think I'll probably retire from watching TMNT for a few years, to say the least.

That being said, I feel confident. Even when I didn't like Fast Forward, the animation was fairly fluid. Not up to par with the old 2k3 series, but it was still decent. I don't think that we'll see the animation get downgraded to armature animation level.

[X]

You guys summed up how I feel about FF.

I like season 6 and all, and it was a very fun season, but it lacked the depth seasons 1-5 had. Characters felt more fleshed out in seasons 1-5, and the episodes felt longer and felt like they had depth too.

While FF was a good season, I hope BttS goes back to season 1-5 standards, with cheaper animation of course (I loved the animation of seasons 1-5, especially fight scenes that seemed to have more FPS.)

-X-

[Drtooth]

So, is "Back to the Sewers" going to be a good show? I'm trying not to get excited to avoid another "Fast Forward" moment, but I can't help it; I've got high hopes. It's extremely exciting just to see new takes on old faces, and the possibility of new characters and new stories. After all, the most important things about a cartoon are it's designs, animation, and story. We've got great designs right now, so all we need to see are the designs in action, and then finally the show itself for it's story and storytelling abilities. Hard not to start getting excited, to be honest.

You know, there was something I was going to state back in another thread, but it was closed. The thing about "Why is BTTS only 13 episodes?"

I had 2 major problems with FF. The flatness of the characters for one thing, and we've gone over it. But I think the problem was that they didn't think the show would have ended in 26 episodes, in 2 production seasons. Now, it's no one's fault at the time, so they clearly had some long term direction, and they were going to spread it out throughout an entire series. They felt that they could just pad the first 2 seasons with fillers and one shots, provided that they come back later. Unfortunately later never happened.

So, when they said they'll only make 13 BTTS episodes, the first thing that had me excited was they knew how long the run of the show would be to begin with. This way, if they plan on any arcs, they know the designated amount of episodes to put it into.

If there's one thing I liked about seasons 1-5, is that every single thing they did seemed to come back and have dire consequences in a later episode... even a whole entire season later. FF was canned too fast for any of this to really take effect, and there are some parts of the show that scream missed oppertunity.


So in that aspect, I think we're going to be in for a great show.

[Sage Ninja]

I like season 6 and all, and it was a very fun season, but it lacked the depth seasons 1-5 had. Characters felt more fleshed out in seasons 1-5, and the episodes felt longer and felt like they had depth too

this was my gripe as well. I hope that they go for some kind of middle ground for BTTS season, with it not has dark as say season four and but not as light as FF. I think they should go back to the tone of season one where it was seriously but kind of funny and light at the same time, with alot of flowing story arcs.

[CyberCubed]

The 4kids rep did say it will be darker than FF. I imagine though it'll be lighter than Seasons 1-5 though.

I have nothing against them bringing some more humor into the series, the new designs almost seem familiar with the original cartoon in some respects. Hell, give Mikey a pizza and have Don work on the Turtle Blimp and you'll wonder if this is a new season of the old show. :p

[VaughnMichael]

Not really a poor choice, to be honest. In fact, I think I picked well. That thing you just saw was a series made in America, not in Japan. Sure it was Speed Racer, but it wasn't the original series. That series was only put to air this year, and is a perfect example of how bad animation can make anything terrible to watch.

We currently have the technology and skill to make smooth animation, yet we can still get things like that floating up. I still stand by what I said; if Back to the Sewers ends up looking like...like THAT, well...I think I'll probably retire from watching TMNT for a few years, to say the least.

That being said, I feel confident. Even when I didn't like Fast Forward, the animation was fairly fluid. Not up to par with the old 2k3 series, but it was still decent. I don't think that we'll see the animation get downgraded to armature animation level.
I really don't think peter laird would allow tmnt to be that crappy.
And I said it's a bad choice simply because it is speed racer, and when people would think of it they would think of the mouths moving funny and not matching up with the words, perhaps they did it this way on purpose.
I really don't care either way I've enjoyed almost every bit thus far with this new series besides the super powers crap in the lost season.

[ToTheNines]

You guys summed up how I feel about FF.

I like season 6 and all, and it was a very fun season, but it lacked the depth seasons 1-5 had. Characters felt more fleshed out in seasons 1-5, and the episodes felt longer and felt like they had depth too.

While FF was a good season, I hope BttS goes back to season 1-5 standards, with cheaper animation of course (I loved the animation of seasons 1-5, especially fight scenes that seemed to have more FPS.)

-X-

There was no "fleshing out" of characters in season 5. Sometimes the turtles would have like 3-5 lines each, in a show named after themselves.

[Sage Ninja]

ugh can we stop the beating the proverbial dead horse already?

[Ra]

Yeah. Look to the future guys instead of dwelling on what has past. Be hopeful. Look forward to what can, could, and will be. We are going to get something great at the end of all of this, and I'm sure of it.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

hah true but I ment more like each turtle would have a kid sidekick like Cody.

Oh don't forget each turtles now turns into a robot that can transform into a chi animal spirit and shoots hyper lazers from its eyes.

Also Shredder and Baxters heads get married next season since the mayor of nyc finally gave in and allowed living head marriages.

It'll be chalk full of super heros the turtles really won't have much to do with the season and splinter will be replaced by a short fat mister miyagi type of guy as their sensei.

Hun will open a dojo and give up his life of crime, while karai and chapin settle down in the bronks and have 5 kids.

Karai becomes a house wife raising her children in the way of the foot and chaplin becomes the head of the nyc branch of best buys geek squad.

April becomes a living drawing and casey tries to overcome a steriod problem in a very touching episode.

wHAT?? Is this true?? If Karai becomes a house wife and hun becomes a good guy, then WHO will be the enemy of the turtels?! What piece of crap is this???:(:(

[VaughnMichael]

ugh can we stop the beating the preverbial dead horse already?
Exactly!!!!!!!
Yeah. Look to the future guys instead of dwelling on what has past. Be hopeful. Look forward to what can, could, and will be. We are going to get something great at the end of all of this, and I'm sure of it.
Oh how right you are!
wHAT?? Is this true?? If Karai becomes a house wife and hun becomes a good guy, then WHO will be the enemy of the turtels?! What piece of crap is this???:(:(
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah:lol:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

[Sage Ninja]

Yeah. Look to the future guys instead of dwelling on what has past. Be hopeful. Look forward to what can, could, and will be. We are going to get something great at the end of all of this, and I'm sure of it.

thats what I think is the best thing to do is go in to this new season as unprejiduced as possible. For my part I'm going to try to be as open minded as possiable. :)

[ZariusTwo]

wHAT?? Is this true?? If Karai becomes a house wife and hun becomes a good guy, then WHO will be the enemy of the turtels?! What piece of crap is this???:(:(

If one had an education about the TMNT, you'd know it doesnt begin and end with Karai or Hun

[Sage Ninja]

I think we've already gone through all the "classic" mirage villans by this point Shredder, axter Stockman, Triceritrons, Karai, Savanti Remaro (or however you spell his name). Really whos left at this point?

I think the way to go is with orginal villans.

[VaughnMichael]

I think we've already gone through all the "classic" mirage villans by this point Shredder, axter Stockman, Triceritrons, Karai, Savanti Remaro (or however you spell his name). Really whos left at this point?

I think the way to go is with orginal villans.
Blood Sucker, Complete Carnage, Savanti's wife, Vampires, Werwolves, Chote, Cha Ocho, & More of Ratking.
If they wanted to they could even adapt some archie issues.

[karailynn]

You know, there was something I was going to state back in another thread, but it was closed. The thing about "Why is BTTS only 13 episodes?"
I had 2 major problems with FF. The flatness of the characters for one thing, and we've gone over it. But I think the problem was that they didn't think the show would have ended in 26 episodes, in 2 production seasons. Now, it's no one's fault at the time, so they clearly had some long term direction, and they were going to spread it out throughout an entire series. They felt that they could just pad the first 2 seasons with fillers and one shots, provided that they come back later. Unfortunately later never happened.
So, when they said they'll only make 13 BTTS episodes, the first thing that had me excited was they knew how long the run of the show would be to begin with. This way, if they plan on any arcs, they know the designated amount of episodes to put it into.
If there's one thing I liked about seasons 1-5, is that every single thing they did seemed to come back and have dire consequences in a later episode... even a whole entire season later. FF was canned too fast for any of this to really take effect, and there are some parts of the show that scream missed oppertunity.


It makes sense. That ("why only 13 episodes") was my thread. I was new to the forum and the series and the fact that there would only be 13 episodes of BTTS was news to me at the time I posted the thread. I seriously had no idea it would get such backlash. I had no idea that it was LONG established around here and I didn't know that the points I made were already exshasted (I didn't have time then to check the boards through for that topic and I for some reason assumed it was new news) and I didn't realize it was such a sore subject to other fans.

I am actually not worried at all about this season. They seem to really be taking their time with this season. With that being said...even if the season isn't what I'm hoping for exactly..the fact that they are taking so much time with the series and spoon feeding it to fans like they are right now (with the blog/a rep hanging out in the forums, etc). I'll be really happy with the season...b/c they are trying. I'm not sure if it will be good by every fans standards...but they are babying it and doing some good marketing....so I'm happy with it, regardless.

[karailynn]

I think we've already gone through all the "classic" mirage villans by this point Shredder, axter Stockman, Triceritrons, Karai, Savanti Remaro (or however you spell his name). Really whos left at this point?

I think the way to go is with orginal villans.


What about the Time temptress and April? I know that neither are villans..but your reference to Savanti made me think of this storyline..
Remember in the second apperance of the Time temptress (the one where they are at the museum with April) The turtles introduce Renett and April and Renett states that they already know eachother. April says "we do" and Renett replies, "Yeah..remember the time I took you back in time and showed you...oh wait..that hasn't happened yet".
Do you think they will expand on that storyline at some point in the series, since they did hint about it?
I'm not sure if the story is a spoiler or not..so I'll use the "spoiler" wrap just in case...
Renett shows April her true orgin. April was drawn by a pen and that magical crystal that Donnie found in the first season (I think it was).

Do you think they will expand on that...since they reference to it...and showed the crystal (granted, this crystal wasn't just for the april story...but it is a big part of it.)

[Jelly Bean]

Blood Sucker, Complete Carnage, Savanti's wife, Vampires, Werwolves, Chote, Cha Ocho, & More of Ratking.
If they wanted to they could even adapt some archie issues.


Complete Carnage...that sounds like a interesting villan. Was she a one shot or a serious recurring villan in the comics? And who are Cha Ocha and Chote? And definately more Ratking :)

[Ra]

Blood Sucker, Complete Carnage, Savanti's wife, Vampires, Werwolves, Chote, Cha Ocho, & More of Ratking.
If they wanted to they could even adapt some archie issues.
I would love to see Blood Sucker. Rat King would be cool, but just seeing Blood Sucker sucking the mutagen out of one of the turtles would be awesome. Wouldn't be bad if he teamed up with Rat King, now that I think about it...

The idea of adapting some of the Archie issues is pretty solid. Throw in a few more mutants, a few more stories...that wouldn't be half bad to see...

[VaughnMichael]

Complete Carnage...that sounds like a interesting villan. Was she a one shot or a serious recurring villan in the comics? And who are Cha Ocha and Chote? And definately more Ratking :)
Complete Carnage is a man who gained super powers via lightning he is one with the man made things like cement and stuff like that and yeah he's been around quite a few times along with Radical who is the female super hero that Leonardo ends up with in tales of the tmnt.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/tales/05/05.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/27/27.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/talesvol2/41/41.htm

Cha Ocho is from volume 4 and tales of the tmnt vol.2
He's a member of the foot clan who hates leonardo.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/08/08.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/talesvol2/06/06.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/talesvol2/28/28.htm

Chote is a Dinosaur man who we really don't know much about so I hope at some point more is told about him in tales of the tmnt.
But he was in fudal japan along with Savanti the next time the turtles cross his path in the end Chote becomes a good guy.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/46/46.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/47/47.htm

I would love to see Blood Sucker. Rat King would be cool, but just seeing Blood Sucker sucking the mutagen out of one of the turtles would be awesome. Wouldn't be bad if he teamed up with Rat King, now that I think about it...

The idea of adapting some of the Archie issues is pretty solid. Throw in a few more mutants, a few more stories...that wouldn't be half bad to see...
Yeah that's pretty much one of the reasons I would love to see him.
Yeah also about Archie the characters don't even have to be mutants if Peter is so against that, there's always a way around it.
I'd also like to see some characters like Dr. Feral and the terror bears brought in from the role playing games.

[Revan]

I'm not sure if the story is a spoiler or not..so I'll use the "spoiler" wrap just in case...
Renett shows April her true orgin. April was drawn by a pen and that magical crystal that Donnie found in the first season (I think it was).

Do you think they will expand on that...since they reference to it...and showed the crystal (granted, this crystal wasn't just for the april story...but it is a big part of it.)
Nothing is impossible but honestly that origin is stupid and unnesesary in this cartoon. her beginnings have been explained well enough and they don't need to reuse that origin to explain her.

[maryshine]

Nothing is impossible but honestly that origin is stupid and unnesesary in this cartoon. her beginnings have been explained well enough and they don't need to reuse that origin to explain her.

I hope April's origin is NORMAL! I know it isn't a realistic show, but the explanation from the comics is patheic!

Also, I continue to hope that the season will be dark and that they go into more dept with the characters, like they used to before FF.

[karailynn]

I hope April's origin is NORMAL! I know it isn't a realistic show, but the explanation from the comics is patheic!

Yeah..I'm not a fan of it either. I liked her being normal. I just wondered since they already hinted to it in that one episode. But, that could easily be overlooked or they could turn that into another episode where Rennett goes back in time and shows April something different than her orgin (like she does in the comics).
I just noticed that line of Rennett's when I watched the episode..and I always wondered what she was talking about. Then I saw the comics orgin story. I'd like to see an episode with April and Rennett...or just an April episode. Everyone else had their own stories, right? All the TMNT do....I can't remember if Casey did or not. ? But, I would like an April story with someone random like Raph or Mikey with April...instead of Donnie, since they typically are always together.

[Donatello]

agreed about the new April origin. i think Peter really goes off the reservatyion with some of these stories. i think the whole April origin is annoying. was anybody hoping that she was more than just a normal person??

As for BTTS. I hope it's good. the phrase "up the humor level" does worry me. though i do beleve that the humor level of TMNT 2003 could have been upped. just the idea of that as a promotion frightens me a bit.

To me, TMNTFF was too stupid and flat, but as for the humor in the old show, to an extent i agree, there are alot of jokes in the show that make me laugh now, mostly from Raphael. That being said i think Raphael was the most horribly portrayed on the show, so i am torn as to how much i enjoy it. That personality is not Raph. It's just not him.

Writing on that show for Mike was ok, too dumb, yes, but it had a core to his character that was true to the true Mikey. Same with Leo.

I think Don could have been written better in the old toon. I prefer a grounded Donnie, with a sharp, smart sense of humor, and an interest in technology, rather than him be some impossible super-genius.

i often wonder how much better the old toon could have been if Raphael was Raphael, and Donatello was given the Sharp wit.

That's how the first Movie did it, and to me that's still the #1 incarnation of the TMNT

[Sage Ninja]

Writing on that show for Mike was ok, too dumb, yes, but it had a core to his character that was true to the true Mikey. Same with Leo.

I think Don could have been written better in the old toon. I prefer a grounded Donnie, with a sharp, smart sense of humor, and an interest in technology, rather than him be some impossible super-genius.

i often wonder how much better the old toon could have been if Raphael was Raphael, and Donatello was given the Sharp wit.

what are you talking about here? Are you talking about Fast Forward or the old toon series? :-?

[Bizzaro]

Wow, some of these ideas you guys come up with concerning villains for the new season are great. I'm not familiar with the comics since I'm totally blind and unable to go out and read them, but I do enjoy using keycommands and my ole faithful screen reader to travel around the Net lookin up info on some of the comic book baddies. I've never heard of Cha Ocho until a few minutes ago. So thanks for pointing this guy out to me. He'd be great to see in the new season, as would Blood Sucker. I read about him on the TMNT site under the comic synopses.
I hope the new season will have more continuity throughout the episodes. I loved the feel of the first 5 seasons. It felt very serialized to me and that made it feel like I was reading the comics rather than watching-- in my own way of course, an animated series.
I enjoyed Fast Forward in some aspects. But I'm glad to see the guys heading back to the present. I want to see the Rat King again. Maybe him and Bishop going at it toe to toe in an episode this coming season? Loved how crazy they made the Slayer in I, Monster. I liked Dragon's Brew from s4 and wonder if we'll see that wandering experiment Bishop let get away in that particular episode. I felt rather sorry for the beasty and hope to see him in a future season, if not this one than one after BTTS. Is Shredder due for a return? I've heard rumors of Charell making a comeback, but they might not go that direction since they've used him for three seasons already. I do hope to see him again though. I loved Tengu Shredder but I'm wanting to see more knock down drag out fights between the TMNT and their adversaries.
Is the scattered Splinter plot supposed to be carried throughout BTTS? I hope the turtles don't constantly have to keep going into some VR world to gather pieces of him. But if that does occur, I'm sure the writers will come up with something interesting... At least, I hope they will.

I love the idea concerning a darker season as well. I'm all for humor, but loved how dark the first 5 seasons were.
It would be nice to see Leo get to take on Charell one last time. I know he got over his anger issues, but I'd love to see him wipe the floor with that little creep. That little creep in a new exosuit, maybe? I felt like they let him off easy in Exodus pt. 2 and want to see one last rematch. But I'm open to anything in season 7, really. I just want to see more ongoing story arcs. Things that carry over from episode to episode. I absolutely love the whole serialization bit from ep 1 of the new toon to ep 116.(Since Nightmares recycled will never air, I guess there are actually 116 eps than 117 comprising seasons 1-5) Well, enough said. I've got my eyes on the future and am hoping for the best when it comes to BTTS. You guys have got me wanting to see more of these comic based villains, for sure.

[Jester]

Hey Biz, I'm not sure if we've ever discussed this, and you can totally tell me if we have, but you do know the Slayer and the Rat KIng are one in the same? Just wasn't sure from the reading of your post is all.

[Bizzaro]

Hey Biz, I'm not sure if we've ever discussed this, and you can totally tell me if we have, but you do know the Slayer and the Rat KIng are one in the same? Just wasn't sure from the reading of your post is all.

Oh yeah, I knew they were the same. Sometimes I refer to him as Ratking and others as the Slayer. I should really call him Ratking since that's really who he's meant to be, but I guess in some ways, he'll always be that cute lil Slayer from s3-E-24 when we first met him. Seriously though, I hope they bring Ratty back. Man, that laugh! hehe! I like how they did the cybernetic thing with half his face. At least that's what the synopsis from TMNT.com says. Was he still able to cloak himself in I, Monster or was that only seen in Bishop's Gambit?

[maryshine]

Oh yeah, I knew they were the same. Sometimes I refer to him as Ratking and others as the Slayer. I should really call him Ratking since that's really who he's meant to be, but I guess in some ways, he'll always be that cute lil Slayer from s3-E-24 when we first met him. Seriously though, I hope they bring Ratty back. Man, that laugh! hehe! I like how they did the cybernetic thing with half his face. At least that's what the synopsis from TMNT.com says. Was he still able to cloak himself in I, Monster or was that only seen in Bishop's Gambit?

Yeah I hope they bring him back too. It would be great if they showed an episode over the sumer like they did with TMNT FF.

[Bizzaro]

Yeah I hope they bring him back too. It would be great if they showed an episode over the sumer like they did with TMNT FF.

Yes! If they released the first three eps of FF during the summer of 06, I'd certainly like to see the first episode of BTTS before it airs in September.
Yep, it'd be cool if they brought Ratty back. This incarnation of Ratking really means business and it'd be nice to see him go up against Agent Bishop or maybe Hun. I love those occasional baddy versus baddy confrontations.
Who knows? Maybe we'll get some sort of sneak peak. I just hope they don't stretch all 13 episodes out over several months though. You know the drill. Air 2 new episodes, then air 4 old ones, then are the next 3, then air 5 old ones. But since it is only 13 episodes in length, we might have to wait a little while for the occasional new ep. And I really hope this new season doesn't end on some sort of a major cliffhanger either! hehe! Oh that would suck.

[gobo]

What about the Time temptress and April?
:blanksta: That's... an interesting way to spell 'Time Seamstress'... twice.
I'm not familiar with the comics since I'm totally blind and unable to go out and read them
Were you, by chance, Jester's competition in the Shredder auditions? O_o Either way, how do you manage the internet stuff? I'd guess voice-recognition/dictation software might be involved, but I've never had any that worked well enough to be worth the hassle. :ohwell:

[Jester]

Yep, Gobo. That's the guy.

[Drtooth]

Yes! If they released the first three eps of FF during the summer of 06, I'd certainly like to see the first episode of BTTS before it airs in September.

Nehhhh.... I'd rather wait. Remember, we wound up seeing those three episodes three times before the rest of the season was shown. And since we have 13 episodes, I can only hope they'll space them out a little, but not as much as we'd see the first three episodes 10 times before we see the final one.


Yep, it'd be cool if they brought Ratty back. This incarnation of Ratking really means business and it'd be nice to see him go up against Agent Bishop or maybe Hun. I love those occasional baddy versus baddy confrontations.
Who knows?

If Rat King doesn't make a single appearance, I'll be sorely disappointed. It's too bad we didn't even see him once in the "lost" season.

[Bizzaro]

:blanksta: That's... an interesting way to spell 'Time Seamstress'... twice.

Were you, by chance, Jester's competition in the Shredder auditions? O_o Either way, how do you manage the internet stuff? I'd guess voice-recognition/dictation software might be involved, but I've never had any that worked well enough to be worth the hassle. :ohwell:

Haha! Yeah, that was me in the vid! I use a screen reader program called Jaws for windows. Since I can't use a mouse, I go with all the keycommands they have floating around out there. I'd have to say Jaws is the best one out there if you're reading anything from word documents to websites on the Net. I don't think it copies and pastes that well, but it'll do everything else if you give it a couple of light slams now and then. hehe!

[Bizzaro]

Nehhhh.... I'd rather wait. Remember, we wound up seeing those three episodes three times before the rest of the season was shown. And since we have 13 episodes, I can only hope they'll space them out a little, but not as much as we'd see the first three episodes 10 times before we see the final one.




If Rat King doesn't make a single appearance, I'll be sorely disappointed. It's too bad we didn't even see him once in the "lost" season.

Yeah, I guess it'd suck to have to see the first three eps over and over again before they aired more new ones. I didn't even think about Ratking not being in the lost season. Now that you mention it, they really should have done something with him. Maybe if Nightmares Recycled had been produced, he could have been the wild card going around in Garbage Man's "world of compacters and shredders."
I wonder how they'll use him if they use him at all in the next season. Will he actually use dialogue this time around when interacting with the other characters or just go around laughing like a nutcase? I really liked how demented he was in I, Monster though, so I guess either way would be cool with me.

[turtle142]

You know, at first I was really concerned when I heard that the BTTS designs would be based on TMNT, seeing as how I don't think those designs would work outside of that film. But after seeing all 4 turtles, april, casey, and now splinter, I can safely say this is a nice halfway point that takes the better aspects of TMNT and marries them with the sensabilities of the 03 cartoon. Of course in a perfect world I would have wanted the designs for the cartoon to remain exactly the same, but I realize they've got to brand this stuff, and pupils or no pupils, the turtle designs are still very true to the original 03 cartoon designs. And a big surprise for me here, I actually prefer this new casey jones model to the old one. This new one is very buff and has a lot more personality than the old. If they stick to their guns, and don't go too crazy with all the new ideas in this new season, I think we'll have a winner. So.... who else thinks we're due more cartoon continuity toys and videogames! (enough TMNT already!!!)

[Cowabunga Carl]

I'm looking forward to BTTS for a slew of reasons. But the main one is I want to see what they do with Casey and April. I mean NT Casey tells April he loves her and then we got FF. So we know they got together because of Codey but I want to see the courtship. I mean Casey isn't your typical guy. Plus it would be cool to see Tales of the TMNT # 43 animated.

[Jelly Bean]

I'm not holding my breath but I really hope that the FF characters, save for maybe Serling, stay in the future and we don't hear from them. Although I wouldn't object to seeing April and Casey meet Cody. :)

[gobo]

I mean NT Casey tells April he loves her and then we got FF. So we know they got together because of Codey but I want to see the courtship.
Rumor has it that they were supposed to get engaged in "Nightmares Recycled".

[Cowabunga Carl]

Rumor has it that they were supposed to get engaged in "Nightmares Recycled".


See that makes me sad now. Is there any hope to ever see that ep? Or do you think they'll do it just in a new ep? Like I said I would love to see Tales #43 animated.

[Vincent]

Well, in an attempt to bring the thread back to the original topic...
I can't say I think that Back to the Sewer will be a return to the awesomeness of seasons 1-4. Season 5 (the lost one) was okay, but had some serious flaws of the shark-jumping variety, and Fast Forward I gave up on after one or two episodes, as it just wasn't TMNT anymore. The movie was pretty good. I'm not so big on the bunch-of-monsters format, and the characterization of Mikey and Don was a bit weak, but the action, drama and over-all tone was quite good and the movie was enjoyable. The fact that Back to the Sewer is inspired by the movie is potentially a good sign, at least compared to what little I saw of Fast Forward, but it seems unlikely that the show will ever return to the quality of episodes like "Same As It Never Was" and "I, Monster".
Ideally, what sets the TMNT apart from other cartoon concepts is that it can get really dark, serious and dramatic and still allow itself to be funny without coming out a complete mess. In fact, the TMNT without darkness is a complete mess.
So I suppose all we can do is hope for writers who know what the TMNT should be, and most importantly how to write layered characters and emotionally resonant drama, because at the core of it, that's what any story needs.

[Sage Ninja]

in what way was Donatello's characterization weak? I thought it was dead on and got much closer to his personality than the first live action film.

[turtle142]

in what way was Donatello's characterization weak? I thought it was dead on and got much closer to his personality than the first live action film.

I think it's less a problem with his characterizationn, and more a problem with his screen time, wouldn't it be wonderful if someone actually had the guts to write a movie story where Donatello took center stage? I think he's due.

[Sage Ninja]

If they ever do, Donatello vs. Baxter Stockman all the way. That would be the best Donatello centric movie.8)

[ToTheNines]

If they ever do, Donatello vs. Baxter Stockman all the way. That would be the best Donatello centric movie.8)

No way, make Donatello Trashes Slash: The Movie :D

[Vincent]

in what way was Donatello's characterization weak? I thought it was dead on and got much closer to his personality than the first live action film.

Sorry. Mikey's characterization was weak. In my mind, Mikey should ideally have layers of conflicted emotions and a depth of pain and responsibility for his brothers which he hides under his metaphorical clown face by holding back his true potential because he feels that if he truly let himself go, it would destroy the family...but then again, my mind has gone weird from studying film and writing and watching too much Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
But what I really meant was that both Don and Mikey were poorly weaved into the plot. They didn't play important roles in the story. That's what I meant, and that's what I take issue with in the movie (although it certainly doesn't make it a bad movie, just not as good as it could have been).

[Drtooth]

Sorry. Mikey's characterization was weak. In my mind, Mikey should ideally have layers of conflicted emotions and a depth of pain and responsibility for his brothers which he hides under his metaphorical clown face by holding back his true potential because he feels that if he truly let himself go, it would destroy the family...but then again, my mind has gone weird from studying film and writing and watching too much Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
But what I really meant was that both Don and Mikey were poorly weaved into the plot. They didn't play important roles in the story. That's what I meant, and that's what I take issue with in the movie (although it certainly doesn't make it a bad movie, just not as good as it could have been).

Problem is, I think all the interaction was between Splinter and Raph, Splinter and Leo, and Leo and Raph. if a TMNT 2 is ever made, I'd LOVE to see some focus on Mikey or Don.

By odd contrast, FF was almost completely Mikey's show. But his characterization was just as weak here. But it matched a lot of the other characters, over simplified.

All we need is good writers to make this a good show. Not that the FF writers were bad, but they were the wrong people for the job.

[Vincent]

All we need is good writers to make this a good show.
Agreed. In fact, I created a thread (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=615845#post615845) about it earlier.

[NameGoesHere1066]

Problem is, I think all the interaction was between Splinter and Raph, Splinter and Leo, and Leo and Raph. if a TMNT 2 is ever made, I'd LOVE to see some focus on Mikey or Don.

By odd contrast, FF was almost completely Mikey's show. But his characterization was just as weak here. But it matched a lot of the other characters, over simplified.

All we need is good writers to make this a good show. Not that the FF writers were bad, but they were the wrong people for the job.

Mikey has always been like this though. Honestly I don't get what the point of his character is sometimes. :roll:

[VaughnMichael]

Mikey has always been like this though. Honestly I don't get what the point of his character is sometimes. :roll:
That's what I've been trying to say all along, it's not like him being an annoying brat was anything new to FF, he annoyed the other turtles from the start.
I think it has allot to do with the writters just not knowing what to do with him besides making him the butt of jokes most of the times.
He's been the only character from the start of this revamp that I honestly just can't stand, totally obnoxious.

[Vincent]

The frustrating thing about Mikey is I know exactly what could be done with the character. There's some great emotional places the character could potentially go, and I know exactly how to do it, but the professional writers who are getting paid to tell stories on screen can't seem to think of anything other than "let's make him annoying!". The show needs better writers.

[Cure]

The frustrating thing about Mikey is I know exactly what could be done with the character. There's some great emotional places the character could potentially go, and I know exactly how to do it, but the professional writers who are getting paid to tell stories on screen can't seem to think of anything other than "let's make him annoying!". The show needs better writers.

You like to toot your own horn a lot, don't you?

[Coola Yagami]

Hey, give Vincent a chance... he can't be as bad as the 4Kids bunch.

[NameGoesHere1066]

That's what I've been trying to say all along, it's not like him being an annoying brat was anything new to FF, he annoyed the other turtles from the start.
I think it has allot to do with the writters just not knowing what to do with him besides making him the butt of jokes most of the times.
He's been the only character from the start of this revamp that I honestly just can't stand, totally obnoxious.

Exactly. It seems like the point of his character is just to be random and unfunny, there is nothing about him that brings anything to the plot except to be running commentary and provide the cheap laugh. And I don't want to hear the defence "he's the morale of the group" because thats certaintly not how he's portrayed. He pisses people off more than he tries to boost people's spirits up. I didn't think it was possiable but he's worse now in FF than he ever was.

[VaughnMichael]

Exactly. It seems like the point of his character is just to be random and unfunny, there is nothing about him that brings anything to the plot except to be running commentary and provide the cheap laugh. And I don't want to hear the defence "he's the morale of the group" because thats certaintly not how he's portrayed. He pisses people off more than he tries to boost people's spirits up. I didn't think it was possiable but he's worse now in FF than he ever was.
Sad to say but Mike's always been my least fave turtle besides in the mirage and image comics he's pretty ok there cause he's not clownish stereo type he's always been on tv.
Yeah allot of people say that about him in FF but I've been saying it all along, so I really don't see much of a differnce His voice actor really doesn't do anything to help matters either for me. *shruggs*

[Vincent]

You like to toot your own horn a lot, don't you?
Not really. It's not like I'm saying I should write for the show. Okay, sometimes I do say that out of sheer frustration, but it's not like I really mean it (otherwise I'd try to find out if it's possible for someone located outside of the US to write for US cartoons and then write a TMNT spec script or something instead of wasting my time on my own ideas). What I'm saying is that the writing shouldn't be so bad that the viewer is ahead of the writers (in more ways than one - I can guess most FF plot twists before they happen and before the characters even suspect it, and that's not supposed to happen with good writing). There are probably tons of writers out there who could and would do much better than most of the current gang. Just imagine if the head writer was replaced with, say, Peter David (of the brilliant short-lived Dreamwave TMNT comics), for example. It'd be not only a vast improvement but probably the best thing to ever happen to a cartoon.

[Drtooth]

The frustrating thing about Mikey is I know exactly what could be done with the character. There's some great emotional places the character could potentially go, and I know exactly how to do it, but the professional writers who are getting paid to tell stories on screen can't seem to think of anything other than "let's make him annoying!". The show needs better writers.


It goes back into what I'm saying. Mikey is pretty much the kid of the group, and always has been (though, in the OT he was more like the bucking the trend, being a random surfer Californian poser). Problem is, I see it as a smaller complexity with the character.

There was some fan letter in the back of a Rescue Rangers comic book that comes to mind. It basically said that Dale wasn't "Stupid" but had a special kind of juvenile innocence. One where he focuses extremely in a fantasy world, and has the naivety to try to apply it all in real life.

I see this in 2k3 Mikey. he is a kid. A kid that's also a fighter. Each turtle deals with it differently. Raph is moody, and has a bunch of resentment issues, Leo is accepting of it (and the most mature of the group, though he still has problems), Don is the token brain and Gadget man (though it goes a little deeper), and Mikey has a dual complexity of having the superhero comic book characters life. On one hand, he's living the dream that people his age usually dream about. On the other hand, it IS a scarey situation.

What sells the immature Mikey to me was his love for comics and the fact he's always picking on Raph. Problem is, the FF writers overemphisised those two things, and blended over everything else. And eventually he became more of a baby than a kid.

And in the Turtle titan episode, he basically was just re-doing a Darkwing Duck vs Gizmoduck episode.

[Sage Ninja]

In my mind, Mikey should ideally have layers of conflicted emotions and a depth of pain and responsibility for his brothers which he hides under his metaphorical clown face by holding back his true potential because he feels that if he truly let himself go, it would destroy the family...but then again, my mind has gone weird from studying film and writing and watching too much Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

This is what I've always felt, this is the ideal potrayal of michaelangelo in my opinion. I get the sence Mikey holds back because he doesn't want to upset the family and team dynamic of Leo the serious leader, Don the technologial geniuos, and Raph the toughest fighter. Always thought that Michaelangelo should have some angst about the whole warrior code and all the darkness it entails. He is a good hearted idealist indivdual so I think he would have a problem with some of the darker aspects of being a warrior and the situations where there is no right or bad decsion but the lsser of two evils and him having to having to balance that with his natuarl iffinaity for goodness.

I see this in 2k3 Mikey. he is a kid. A kid that's also a fighter. Each turtle deals with it differently. Raph is moody, and has a bunch of resentment issues, Leo is accepting of it (and the most mature of the group, though he still has problems), Don is the token brain and Gadget man (though it goes a little deeper), and Mikey has a dual complexity of having the superhero comic book characters life. On one hand, he's living the dream that people his age usually dream about. On the other hand, it IS a scarey situation.

The writers could much deeper with Mikley's insistence in being a super hero if they tried but they never go deeper than Mikey just wanting to be one. Maybe I just read between the lines but i see Mikey creating turtle titan as his way of trying to make a place for himself that isn't over shadowed by his brothers and their stronger personalites. I think Mikey's gripe (and the reason he constantly annoys his brothers and throughs his accomplisments in their face) is because he feels that his brothers steal his thunder because they have definable niches in the group. I mean if Mikey wasn't there would the team be so crippled with out him or would it go with out missing a beat. So that is partly why he created turtle titan so that he could make a nich for himself independant from his brothers.

[VaughnMichael]

Just imagine if the head writer was replaced with, say, Peter David (of the brilliant short-lived Dreamwave TMNT comics), for example. It'd be not only a vast improvement but probably the best thing to ever happen to a cartoon.
Yes then it would be TMNT Gangsta Land.
Dreamwaste had what 5 issues most of them are copies of the cartoon, it's hardly the best TMNT comic series, quite frankly I think it's one of the worst.
You talk about the Turtles not being themselves how about the fact that the turtles are hardly even in the series at all.

[gobo]

Dreamwaste had what 5 issues most of them are copies of the cartoon, it's hardly the best TMNT comic series, quite frankly I think it's one of the worst.
There were seven issues. The first four were all new episode tie-ins, not "copies". The last three were entirely original, which, by the way, is staggeringly less challenging to accomplish. This was a very daring project in that there are only so many tie-ins one can write before contradicting established continuity. Granted, there wasn't a huge uproar when IDW decided to can the title. But, I just have to know what has your knickers in such a twist that you feel the need to berate the series without the facts to backup your arguments...

[VaughnMichael]

There were seven issues. The first four were all new episode tie-ins, not "copies". The last three were entirely original, which, by the way, is staggeringly less challenging to accomplish. This was a very daring project in that there are only so many tie-ins one can write before contradicting established continuity. Granted, there wasn't a huge uproar when IDW decided to can the title. But, I just have to know what has your knickers in such a twist that you feel the need to berate the series without the facts to backup your arguments...
Sorry I didn't sit and look at how many issues the tmnt series I hate more than the next mutation has, even though I have all the comics to this series.
Not with me mind you, most of my collection is back in los angeles so it makes it a bit difficult for me to remember everything all the time Gobo.
I just felt with a title called Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles they should be the center of the series not trying to make it about the ghetto every issue or making it come off as TMNT meets the boondocks.
There's also really nothing to back this up the series was a flop, and then the company went under.
How can you seriously adore a series with 7 issues it only just got started if you really want to call what they did a start, all they simply did was rehash old tales and episodes of the new cartoon or did them in a slightly more boring perspective.
The only thing that really wasn't all that bad in the series was the art.
This series most def. didn't have me wanting the next issue every month, the only reason I even bought the thing and supported it was because it was TMNT.
They where finally going to get good and get past TMNT help the homies every issue with the turtle-bot issue then the damn thing gets cancled.
Now while I don't mind the turtles helping out african american characters it seems to me thats all they where trying to do with the series like I said Boondock Turtles.
I wish the cartoon had more of a diverse cast of characters to be honest, but for me this was overkill with just one.
Perhaps if it was every other issue or is the failed series lasted more than 7 issues it would have changed my opinion on the matter.
I didn't say everything in depth gobo because I don't want to turn this thread into a way off topic thing.
Happy now?
And seriously why is it any time I go against something I always have to state facts to say why me no likely something...like just about everyone else on here does to Fast Forward the old toon the new movie and everything.
I don't see you asking them to explain themselves Gobo.

But so this is on topic I think Back to the Sewer is going to be a hell of allot of fun. :)

[gobo]

all they simply did was rehash old tales and episodes of the new cartoon or did them in a slightly more boring perspective.
:lol: That's the kinda accuracy I was looking for... ^_^

[Vincent]

Yes then it would be TMNT Gangsta Land.
What does that even mean?
Dreamwaste had what 5 issues most of them are copies of the cartoon, it's hardly the best TMNT comic series, quite frankly I think it's one of the worst.
You talk about the Turtles not being themselves how about the fact that the turtles are hardly even in the series at all.
Actually, seven issues, only four of which tied in with the first four episodes of the series, but told them out of different perspectives (which I personally found very interesting). And all seven issues were very well written, intelligent and, i felt, emotionally resonant (and issue five was funny as hell). Sure, all the turtles didn't get that much panel space (and I doubt Peter David can be faulted for that, as it probably wasn't his decision to have the first four issues tie in with the series), but they probably would have figured more, had the series continued, and the little they did have time to figure was quite enough to see that Peter David has an excellent grip on the characters and their respective voices (or, rather, what the characters sound like when given the depth they all too often lack).

quite frankly I think it's one of the worst.
Sure. But I don't. And that's why I'm mentioning Peter David. Not because of what you think, but because (based on having read and enjoyed the afforementioned series as well as a couple other works of his) I personally really truly think the guy is good at writing and deserves a second chance.

[Spitfire]

I'm sorry I buy my Ninja Turtle comics expecting them to be about the Ninja Turtles. I happen to enjoy it when the cover isn't misleading. Every cover featured the turtles doing something awesome like battling foot ninja and inside was some pointless story about a side character that has no relevance to the turtles what so ever.

If the only argument that it's good is based around the artwork then that's pretty poor. Retelling a story that'd been written for you isn't very hard so he didn't do anything there. DW were infamous for horrid storytelling. I had their DMC series as well which got a tad too sidetracked and tried adding a back story to Virgil which failed because they never had the fourth issue to tie it all together. The company tanked because they released to many GI Joe and Transformers comics which never sold and I still see them sitting around in comic stores. In fact whenever I look through back issue bins of the turtles all I ever see are the DW issues. I'm sick of seeing them.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, the DW comics were kinda sucky... I did like the tv-based episodes though with different perspectives and I liked how they added old-toon references like all the pizza and April wanting to be a news reporter when she was younger and stuff.

But yeah, the original issues kinda went to hell. On their own they were ok, but they needed to be placed 'in-between' more turtle-related stuff. I mean you had stuff with the Foot, Hun, Triceratons and what-have-you on TV... but Raph saving some lile girl from a crazy psycologist in the comics based on the same show.... Maybe they should have gone ahead and did the 'T4' storyline... and then put the DJeerag issues afterwards as kind of a 'breath of fresh air' before the next big story.

[Sage Ninja]

Yeah allot of people say that about him in FF but I've been saying it all along, so I really don't see much of a differnce His voice actor really doesn't do anything to help matters either for me. *shruggs*

What do you mean his voice actor doesn't really do anything to help matters? :ohwell:

[NameGoesHere1066]

he means it's shrill and and piercing which doesn't go well with the scrathy voice Mikey has. And up's on the annoying factor of his character.

[Jelly Bean]

oh for the love of God people his voice is fine **shakes head**

[VaughnMichael]

oh for the love of God people his voice is fine **shakes head**
Compared to? If like compared to a screaming bunny on fire then yeah it's fine sure.:lol:

[Drtooth]

If the only argument that it's good is based around the artwork then that's pretty poor. Retelling a story that'd been written for you isn't very hard so he didn't do anything there. DW were infamous for horrid storytelling. I had their DMC series as well which got a tad too sidetracked and tried adding a back story to Virgil which failed because they never had the fourth issue to tie it all together. The company tanked because they released to many GI Joe and Transformers comics which never sold and I still see them sitting around in comic stores. In fact whenever I look through back issue bins of the turtles all I ever see are the DW issues. I'm sick of seeing them.

I wonder if Archie gave them first right of refusal and refused. Seems like Archie would have been a perfect fit. look how successful their Sonic X comics have become, allong side the regular Sonic comics they publish.

[Jelly Bean]

I can under stand you not liking the character but geez now your insulting the actor's performance of the character. You don't think thats a bit uncool to do?

[ZariusTwo]

I can under stand you not liking the character but geez now your insulting the actor's performance of the character. You don't think thats a bit uncool to do?

What the hell are you going to do about it over the internet other than like it?:roll:

[Vincent]

oh for the love of God people his voice is fine **shakes head**
I'm gonna have to agree. I liked Grayson's Mikey voice from the start. It's just the writing that's made the character progressively more and more immature and annoying, and the character's annoyingness has dragged the voice along with it. I don't like Mikey's voice anymore. But I don't blame Grayson for it. I blame the writers (or the people telling the writers what to do) for pushing Mikey (and Grayson) in that direction by not letting the character grow.
Michelangelo has been flanderized (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization). I hope they do something about it in BttS by giving Mikey a decent character arc. Once the character gets less annoying, the voice will follow.

[CJStyles]

agreed. Mikey's character did get a little out there as the series developed.


As for "Back to The Sewers" I'm going to watch a few episodes and develop an opinion then. I gave the dreaded Fast Forward a chance. Why not give this one too. However, if it is indeed just Fast Forward, but back in the present then I'm not putting up with wasting my Saturday morning to get up and watch that

[VaughnMichael]

You know if you are expecting Back To The Sewer to be one big depress fast and darkity dark dark land, I really wouldn't get your hopes up all to much.
In fact maybe you should just give on the turtles all together, sell everything with a turtle on it and leave the fan base now.
Seriously do you guys realize just how you sound all the time?
If you where records the lot of you would have been broken a long time ago.
Move forward and stop looking back because the only thing that's going to happen is that you're going to aggravate yourself and others who really don't mind the wheels of progress and change spinning forward.

It's really funny though because anyone on here who has the generalized thoughts of the collective are ok to say what they don't like.
But far be it for me to say I don't really care for the voice the modern Michelangelo has, hell I never was a fan of the way his character in the old toon either.
But that one sure didn't sound like he's straining his voice just to talk.
Just because I don't care for the voice doesn't mean I have a problem with his voice actor I don't even know the man that would be as absurd as someone forming an opinion about a cartoon that takes place in the future after watching only 2 or 3 episodes.
All I'm saying is I find it funny how there's tuns of dead FF horses constantly being beaten and I mention one thing about a voice actor and it's *gasp* how dare you sir!

[NameGoesHere1066]

wow...do little things on here have the tendacy to be blown out of porpotion regularly or is today a special day? This is the second thread I've posted in where what I said was taken completely out of context. For any ones 411 I wasn't insulting the actor personaly and my dislike of Mikey's character doesn't carry over to the actor just because he voices him. I just don't like quite how screechy the actor makes his voice sometimes when he is doing basic dialgue. He wasn't quite so shrill and shrieky in the first few seasons but now his voice is more piercing and shrill. Although I will concede that the way a character is written translate onto the screen, no matter how good the actor is. And Mikey has been a victim of this, I would have more respect for Mikey if he was written as a "character" rather than "caricature".

hell I never was a fan of the way his character in the old toon either.
But that one sure didn't sound like he's straining his voice just to talk

I agree, Mike in the OT may have had the surfer dude persona but at least the sound of his voice is smoother and easier on the ears.

[Jelly Bean]

It's really funny though because anyone on here who has the generalized thoughts of the collective are ok to say what they don't like.
But far be it for me to say I don't really care for the voice the modern Michelangelo has, hell I never was a fan of the way his character in the old toon either.
But that one sure didn't sound like he's straining his voice just to talk.
Just because I don't care for the voice doesn't mean I have a problem with his voice actor I don't even know the man that would be as absurd as someone forming an opinion about a cartoon that takes place in the future after watching only 2 or 3 episodes

not every one watched two or three epsiodes and decided they didn't like it, I can't speak for others but I watched more than that and I didn't really care for it.

[VaughnMichael]

not every one watched two or three epsiodes and decided they didn't like it, I can't speak for others but I watched more than that and I didn't really care for it.
Yeah but unlike them you don't keep posting over and over about it and beating a dead horse.
I mean seriously yeah ok we get it...:sleep:

[Spitfire]

not every one watched two or three epsiodes and decided they didn't like it, I can't speak for others but I watched more than that and I didn't really care for it.

No but most people did and that's the issue. Honestly in my opinion if you didn't watch the entire season you don't deserve to have an opinion on it. It's like watching half a movie and turning off then telling people is sucks. Well you never watched the ending, it's possible the ending was good. It's possible the ending could change your entire opinion on the movie. Same thing with a TV series. Episodes could be bad but claiming an entire season of a TV series sucks because you saw a few episodes and didn't like them is shallow.

If that's how I was I wouldn't even watch 2K3 because I didn't enjoy any of the episodes leading up to "Shredder Strikes" the first time through the series. And season 2, I hated "Turtles In Space" and "Secret Origins". Lastly season 3 which had the terrible Space Invasion story arc right in the beginning.

And like most of you I hated FF at first as well however I gave it a chance and after awhile I started to like it. Once I accepted it I went back and watched the episodes I didn't like so much the first time and got into them as I did with Season 1 and 2. The only season I didn't have to do that for was 4 because the beginning wasn't terrible.

[Fugitoid Jones]

You know if you are expecting Back To The Sewer to be one big depress fast and darkity dark dark land, I really wouldn't get your hopes up all to much.
In fact maybe you should just give on the turtles all together, sell everything with a turtle on it and leave the fan base now.
Seriously do you guys realize just how you sound all the time?
If you where records the lot of you would have been broken a long time ago.
Move forward and stop looking back because the only thing that's going to happen is that you're going to aggravate yourself and others who really don't mind the wheels of progress and change spinning forward.


I love how whenever someone says they hope the next season is a little less like FF, Puttie assumes we want an R rated cartoon. Good grief, we just want it a little less silly, not depressing, which for some reason you think the 2k3 series was. I didn't see it that way, but eh, that's only MY opinion.

It's really funny though because anyone on here who has the generalized thoughts of the collective are ok to say what they don't like.
But far be it for me to say I don't really care for the voice the modern Michelangelo has, hell I never was a fan of the way his character in the old toon either.

All I'm saying is I find it funny how there's tuns of dead FF horses constantly being beaten and I mention one thing about a voice actor and it's *gasp* how dare you sir!

Jelly Bean's post aside, whenever someone expresses their opinion after one of your posts, they are not attacking you, dude. chill.



I don't watch 4Kids or anything, so has anyone seen any promos for BTTS or is it still too early for that kinda stuff?

[VaughnMichael]

I love how whenever someone says they hope the next season is a little less like FF, Puttie assumes we want an R rated cartoon. Good grief, we just want it a little less silly, not depressing, which for some reason you think the 2k3 series was. I didn't see it that way, but eh, that's only MY opinion.
Jelly Bean's post aside, whenever someone expresses their opinion after one of your posts, they are not attacking you, dude. chill.
I don't watch 4Kids or anything, so has anyone seen any promos for BTTS or is it still too early for that kinda stuff?
First I'll thank you not to abbreviate my user name.
Second no not every time, but you know what? I was quiet for a very long time and this bull has seriously gotten old fast.
We all get it, just let the damn horse rest in peace already.
It's also very annoying because of the new fact that half the people who hated FF are now saying oh it's really not that bad but they bashed it the entire time it was on the air helping it to be changed and we are now missing out on some really bad ass brand new story ideas just as the show was getting into the swing of things.
Hey I'm just stating what the people want out of the show they want the entire thing to be just like the half-assed same as it never was.
I'm not saying I think it's dark or depressing that's what people would have rather seen than FF for an entire season.
They like the turtles to suffer and I for one thought it was a breath of fresh air that for once their lives weren't constantly attacked or on the run from the foot or bishop trying to cut them up for experiments even though I didn't mind those episodes one bit.
I'd like a nice balance in their lives in episodes and I don't mind what direction the show takes as long as it's not more anime wannabe stuff.
Maybe that's why I get so annoyed with allot of the broken record members.
I'm saying the show is never going to be that way if anyone does they seriously can just walk out right now or enjoy the series at it's good points and bad points.
I'm not saying people can't discuss things but that's not what they're doing, it's just bla bla bla this sucks that sucks hate hate hate.
And any time I do exactly as they do and say I don't like something I am asked to write a report for them as if it's friggin grade school, as to why I think the new 2k3 mikey voice is annoying.
I don't like every episode of FF myself btw but I also don't like allot of episodes from 2k3 and the lost season is seriously a wtf moment for me.
People here seriously need to learn that things aren't going to always be exactly as they like or want.
The sooner they learn this lesson life for other people who already know this won't be quite as agitating.
Btw no nothings been shown yet besides some images, wait you don't watch 4kids? Do you even watch the show then?

[Fugitoid Jones]

Sorry, Putrescent, didn't mean to insult you by abbreviating your name.

And I didn't mean for my post to sound like an attack on you, I just want everyone to be chill.

Btw no nothings been shown yet besides some images, wait you don't watch 4kids? Do you even watch the show then?

I haven't been watching 4Kids since it's just reruns. The only show I watch on there is TMNT anyway. My work schedule doesn't allow me to be awake when the show airs, besides, I've got the dvds, so there's no reason to tape eps I already have.

[VaughnMichael]

Sorry, Putrescent, didn't mean to insult you by abbreviating your name.
And I didn't mean for my post to sound like an attack on you, I just want everyone to be chill.
I haven't been watching 4Kids since it's just reruns. The only show I watch on there is TMNT anyway. My work schedule doesn't allow me to be awake when the show airs, besides, I've got the dvds, so there's no reason to tape eps I already have.
I'm thinking of changing my user name anyways so don't sweat it, it's just a pet peeve.
Yeah dude I don't want to fight with anyone that's not why I come here, turtles is.
I've just grown tired of the same boring repeated comments, and having to explain myself when no one else has to.
I guess I'm just a rare type of fan becaue I look at the good and bad in everything turtles even in things like next mutation.
Oh ok the way you worded that was like you've never watched the show yet had spoken of it as if you did so I was like hu? But I gotcha now.

[Sage Ninja]

Hey Putrescent I'm afraid my question is what started this all:

What do you mean his voice actor doesn't really do anything to help matters?

but honestly I didn't think such an innocent question would start such a war, I didn't ask you to explain your self in condsending sort of way or even in confrontational one. I was wondering on your reason behind it, and one I would have asked any one.

[VaughnMichael]

Hey Putrescent I'm afraid my question is what started this all:



but honestly I didn't think such an innocent question would start such a war, I didn't ask you to explain your self in condsending sort of way or even in confrontational one. I was wondering on your reason behind it, and one I would have asked any one.
I didn't feel that I needed to explain myself after the countless Fast Forward sucks it's lame bla bla bla posts every day on here.
I also didn't get the change to say anything if I wanted to as some one else had replied speaking for me.
Seriously though I've been through hell lately, and a voice actor and a show I enjoy reguardless of how many of you hate it should seriously be the last of my worries.
I'm just not a fan of 2k3 mike it's not a big deal it's just as simple as I think he's annoying not the voice actor who doesn't even sound like him.
You know more and more as time goes by I enjoy this site less and less but not because Krang doesn't keep it a kick @ss place but simply because of new annoying members, and people constantly spouting out the same tired things over and over for the past 2 years.
I'd think people would grow tired of it after a bit but I guess not.
I keep considering leaving here for a bit but why should I have to I've been here since almost the start of this place, but maybe it would do me good because allot of people on here seriously make me enjoy turtles allot less.

[Drtooth]

Michelangelo has been flanderized (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization). I hope they do something about it in BttS by giving Mikey a decent character arc. Once the character gets less annoying, the voice will follow.

As I've been saying a billion times by now, the entire cast was Flanderized in FF. I did take it in the context that since the Turtles don't have a serious threat, and therefore, they could be a little more relaxed about everything. At first, that is.

Mikey was ALWAYS my favorite turtle, and 2K3 was no expection. I am a big fan of the voice actor, and his work on TMNT and the other 4Kids dubs (I have a problem with the company when it comes to certain things, but they have some good voice actors.). But then again, even I thought he got annoying in this part of the series.

But here's what i am confused about, or somehow missed. When are the turtles coming back? Is a decent amount of time going to pass from the time they disappeared to when they returned, or will it be seconds after they left?

All I'm saying is if they don't accidentally return in April's Bathtub, I'll be slightly disappointed. They missed that oppertunity TOO many times.

[NameGoesHere1066]

As I've been saying a billion times by now, the entire cast was Flanderized in FF. I did take it in the context that since the Turtles don't have a serious threat, and therefore, they could be a little more relaxed about everything. At first, that is.

Mikey was ALWAYS my favorite turtle, and 2K3 was no expection. I am a big fan of the voice actor, and his work on TMNT and the other 4Kids dubs (I have a problem with the company when it comes to certain things, but they have some good voice actors.). But then again, even I thought he got annoying in this part of the series.

They just need to allow him to be a character who has meaning and purpose to the show other than enternally being the butt of the joke that provides nothing but running commentary and slap stick comedy. Other wise Mikey's character is just useless. Maybe that can change in BTTS. **shrugs**

But here's what i am confused about, or somehow missed. When are the turtles coming back? Is a decent amount of time going to pass from the time they disappeared to when they returned, or will it be seconds after they left?

All I'm saying is if they don't accidentally return in April's Bathtub, I'll be slightly disappointed. They missed that oppertunity TOO many times.

I think it's been stated that time has past in the present and they return a year later and while they where goe all the baddies have gone hog wild with no one to keep them in check. But I'm power phrasing here so don't take word as gosspel.

[Drtooth]

Yeah. I must have some how missed that. I don;t know if I like the idea of them being gone a year or them coming back just after they left better. It depends on how it plays out.

But if Hun's any indication, and the villains also had a year to grow, I'm all for their disappearance.

[FlawedCoil82]

Personally, Mikey don't bother me half as much as that ridiculous "Bickles" robot police officer. Every time he says "'ello, ello, ello, what's this?" I just want to see his head be sliced off and watch him blow up. He is the worst element of FF (along with Triple Threat). I very much hope that neither of those characters ever appear again.
Jack

[Spitfire]

His name was Biggles and the joke behind him was he was a robot of a British police officer or bobby. Now that's obviously not going to make you like the character, and no problem with that, but at least know what your talking about before you say something like that.

[Drtooth]

His name was Biggles and the joke behind him was he was a robot of a British police officer or bobby. Now that's obviously not going to make you like the character, and no problem with that, but at least know what your talking about before you say something like that.

Somehow, a robotic bobby would be an ideal character for something besides TMNT. Something a lot more satirical, allong the lines of Freakazoid or The Tick. I did like him in a couple epiosdes, but he just seemed like an out of place character.

Plus, I wanted a random bobby in my show! Now that they've done it, it won't seem as original.... but when has originality stopped me?

[gobo]

But here's what i am confused about, or somehow missed. When are the turtles coming back? Is a decent amount of time going to pass from the time they disappeared to when they returned, or will it be seconds after they left?

All I'm saying is if they don't accidentally return in April's Bathtub, I'll be slightly disappointed. They missed that oppertunity TOO many times.
I think it's been stated that time has past in the present and they return a year later and while they where goe all the baddies have gone hog wild with no one to keep them in check. But I'm power phrasing here so don't take word as gosspel.
TMNT4KIDS stated here, on the boards, that they return to a year later than they left. Technically, that'll be 2007. Fast Forward was in 2105, 99 years in the future. That meant they had left 2006. A year later than that is 2007. :)

[Vincent]

Just to make things clear as to where I stand: Yes, I did only watch two episodes before stating that FF was bad. But since then I have watched a few more episodes (I only have two left) and I don't dislike it a whole lot less than I did after the first two episodes. Sure, it got a little better, but it's still pretty bad. In some ways absolutely horrible (the previously mentioned Biggles being a good example of this). And the FF concept just doesn't hold up. It's like it's not even the same universe as previous seasons of the show. The silliness of the FF setting is way too over the top and forced to be compatible with the TMNT. IF FF was just a show on its own without TMNT in it, it might work (it'd be mediocre, but it wouldn't bother me), but the problem is TMNT are in it and that just doesn't make sense.
TMNT as a concept works best when emotionally real and down to earth in some way, as a contrast to all the ninja and sci-fi stuff and the fact that they're turtles. That doesn't mean it has to be depressing and humorless. Just means the characters should have layers and emotions and character arcs, the villains should have motives and random things shouldn't happen just for cheap laughs.
Also, the fact that they're shadow warriors should mean something (which in FF it clearly doesn't).
All I'm saying, and all I've really ever been saying is that TMNT is a great (not to mention iconic) premise (even though it's a parody at the core), and should be treated with some respect.

[NameGoesHere1066]

I agree with you. But you better get ready to get slammed for voicing that opinion. :(

[Revan]

IF FF was just a show on its own without TMNT in it, it might work (it'd be mediocre, but it wouldn't bother me), but the problem is TMNT are in it and that just doesn't make sense.
Interesting. It does make a bit of sense though. FF is a show that happens to have the turtles in it. If you take the boys out of the plot, it could still be the same show.

[Lanagirl]

Will there be any sign of Oroku Saki? I know, I know- it doesn't make sense but you know, it's not so easy to kill a dream:evilgrin:

[ToTheNines]

Interesting. It does make a bit of sense though. FF is a show that happens to have the turtles in it. If you take the boys out of the plot, it could still be the same show.

Well, who would fight Sho'Kanabo? Cody and Serling?

[gobo]

I think he means 'replacing them with other random fighters'. And, I agree that everything was simplified to the point that it was nearly generic. But, it wasn't unwatchable by a long shot. The only reason I can see that anyone would still hate on it is because it's, objectively, a somewhat illogical follow-up to the 2K3 continuity.

[Spitfire]

If the color scheme in FF was twice as dark and all the turtles had disgruntled emotional issues then there'd be no complaints by any fans. But in all honesty it makes no sense.

They are ninja, they practice being ninja, there are scenes where they sneak around when necessary, but what would make no sense what so ever would be if they still ran around in the darkness when for the first time in their lives they could be out in the open with no penalty. The first episode covers that up pretty well with them trying to sneak around. Did you watch "All Hallows Thieves"? They weren't trying to sneak around in that episode because they didn't have to. They enjoyed being able to walk the streets. If that's not enough they just defeated their worst enemy and saved the entire planet. Don't know about you but that would lighten my mood up quite a bit. If that isn't enough to make you happy then how about upgrading your living from a sewer to a penthouse owned by someone who idolizes you.

If you'd still be emotional, dark, and brooding after all that then you would be what we now refer to as emo. So emo in fact you might as well skip the foreplay and just kill yourself.

The villians having no motives? Okay let's see Kanabo wants to enslave the planet and use it's resources to benefit his race.

Darius wants to kill Cody and take over the company so he has complete control of everything.

Jammerhead is a criminal, much like Hun, a gang leader who now wants revenge on the turtles for sending him to jail.

Zixx is a bounty hunter who wants money and will do anything to get it.

The dark turtles, always in shame and being put down by Darius want to prove themselves by defeating the turtles.

Baxter, wants revenge for Bishop abandoning him years ago.

I see plenty of motivation here. Triple Threat is just an idiot and likes to cause trouble and break stuff. He's really the only villain I see that fits your profile.

[Revan]

Well, who would fight Sho'Kanabo? Cody and Serling?
Like gobo said, the show did not depend of having the tmnt in it. They could have been replaced by different fighters and it would have been the same show. IMO, many people don't like the show because the first 5 seasons were so different/better (IMO). FF was not as good as the previous seasons but it was still not horrible.

[Drtooth]

The villians having no motives? Okay let's see Kanabo wants to enslave the planet and use it's resources to benefit his race.

Darius wants to kill Cody and take over the company so he has complete control of everything.

Jammerhead is a criminal, much like Hun, a gang leader who now wants revenge on the turtles for sending him to jail.

Zixx is a bounty hunter who wants money and will do anything to get it.

The dark turtles, always in shame and being put down by Darius want to prove themselves by defeating the turtles.

Baxter, wants revenge for Bishop abandoning him years ago.

I see plenty of motivation here. Triple Threat is just an idiot and likes to cause trouble and break stuff. He's really the only villain I see that fits your profile.


Stated a million times before, you can tell they were planning great big things with some of the villains, but the show got cut before they could do any of this. Maybe it will somehow flow through BTTS. maybe not.

But I agree. Triple Threat was just useless. I would have loved his action figure, though. But as a character, he reminds me of those random mutants they made action figures... and then when they tried to squeaze them into the OT plots.

[VaughnMichael]

Like gobo said, the show did not depend of having the tmnt in it. They could have been replaced by different fighters and it would have been the same show. IMO, many people don't like the show because the first 5 seasons were so different/better (IMO). FF was not as good as the previous seasons but it was still not horrible.
You could do that with just about any show, I say people are just looking for reasons other than the obvious as to why they hate it and that is they can't handle the slightest change.
It's this way with everything they changed the stadiums here in Pittsburgh and the people flipped but after they where built and brought the city all kinds of money and the new stadium was all flashy and new and they grew to love it because it was nice and not old and dirty like the previous one.
And trust me I'm not defending Fast Forward quite frankly I'm as sick of talking about it as I am people bringing it up.
Stated a million times before, you can tell they were planning great big things with some of the villains, but the show got cut before they could do any of this. Maybe it will somehow flow through BTTS. maybe not.

But I agree. Triple Threat was just useless. I would have loved his action figure, though. But as a character, he reminds me of those random mutants they made action figures... and then when they tried to squeaze them into the OT plots.
And you know Tooth what helped with the demise of FF? The fans constant complaints without an ounce of constructive criticism, it was just constant blasting of the series without allowing it to develop simply because it wasn't what they knew of the show in the past.

Please people for the sake of the future of this series and next season don't complain until you've seen the entire thing, or at least give the good with the bad in your comments about episodes.
You guys helped kill a show in it's developmental stages, for this one instance I wish the company would stop listening to whiney non-helpful fans.

[tOkKa]

I keep considering leaving here for a bit but why should I have to I've been here since almost the start of this place, but maybe it would do me good because allot of people on here seriously make me enjoy turtles allot less.

-->>

:ksad:

[Revan]

You guys helped kill a show in it's developmental stages, for this one instance I wish the company would stop listening to whiney non-helpful fans.
It sounds a bit like you are assuming that bashers regret their whining. I think they whined because they didn't like and still don't. They got what they wanted when FF was canned. As a fan, if you don't like something, blindly supporting it just because it's tmnt is wrong. Just my opinion. And I don't hate FF. Personally I wish we could have seen it play out too but we don't always get what we want. :ohwell:

[Spitfire]

As a fan, if you don't like something, blindly supporting it just because it's tmnt is wrong.

Funny you should say that because that's what 90% of the fanbase does when it comes to the toys and comics or discussion involving Laird.

I agree with you, someone shouldn't blindly support something because it's turtles but they do it with everything else why not the TV series? Most of the fans admit the series was getting promising. Now their starting it again from square one. This could be even worse then FF, it could be better, no one knows but if anyone thinks changing the appearance of the characters and taking them out of the future will change the way the writers at 4Kids do the stories their blind.

[VaughnMichael]

It sounds a bit like you are assuming that bashers regret their whining. I think they whined because they didn't like and still don't. They got what they wanted when FF was canned. As a fan, if you don't like something, blindly supporting it just because it's tmnt is wrong. Just my opinion. And I don't hate FF. Personally I wish we could have seen it play out too but we don't always get what we want. :ohwell:
Yes many of them are coming out of the wood works after not even watching more than 3 episodes like I thought all along and are saying they now enjoy it.
While I agree it's not the best tmnt ever it's most def. not the worst like people tend to make it out to be.
They can't always get what they want that's what I've been saying all along not everyone is going to enjoy everything but seriously they need to stop drilling it over and over, it's over it's done you killed it be happy rejoice! yay! Now let's all do each other a huge favor and shut up about it on both sides.
I do love though how Spitfire, Myself and others make valid points but people only read into what they want to.
Back to the Sewer isn't going to be much differnt at all though anyone who thinks so is sadly fooling themselves.
And isn't that really what this thread is about anyway not Fast Forward.

[NameGoesHere1066]

wow...this really is a dead subject...:dead: both sides are just so self rightous. It's a cartoon people lets just enjoy it.

[Drtooth]

wow...this really is a dead subject...:dead: both sides are just so self rightous. It's a cartoon people lets just enjoy it.

Yeah. Let's just learn the lessons of the past, and move forward.

And let's just keep thinking that we were this close to Bratty Tiny Cute and Cuddly Marketable Plush Version Turtles.

[gobo]

Noob symppathiser... :P

[Jelly Bean]

And let's just keep thinking that we were this close to Bratty Tiny Cute and Cuddly Marketable Plush Version Turtles.

When the hell did this take place? o.O

[Drtooth]

When the hell did this take place? o.O

So, you forgot the pitch where the Turtles were supposed to hang around with their childhood selves, didn't you?

Can't say I blame you. I tried to repress the memory too.

[VaughnMichael]

So, you forgot the pitch where the Turtles were supposed to hang around with their childhood selves, didn't you?

Can't say I blame you. I tried to repress the memory too.
No Tooth, allot of these people are noobs and hardly know anything so you're gonna have to explain it to them.;) or give them links and images.

[Raphael_]

I see nothing but good things from BTTS. There will be some irritating moments I'm sure, but I have enjoyed all of it from 2k3 to FF very much. It all had its own charm.

Keeping a product going is about constant change. You have to, or it gets stale and tired. If they had not switched to Fast Forward when they did, you may have seen the ratings drop severely. Look how little the OT changed, and by the time they revamped it, it was too late.

My only gripe is Fast Forward getting the axe when it did. To all of those that whined about it, thanks, jerks, for leaving us with an incomplete series which will now be a nuisance of holes that have to be plugged in the new season. :tmad::tmad::tmad::tmad:

[Revan]

My only gripe is Fast Forward getting the axe when it did. To all of those that whined about it, thanks, jerks, for leaving us with an incomplete series which will now be a nuisance of holes that have to be plugged in the new season. :tmad::tmad::tmad::tmad:
There are currently only 777 active technodrome users. Even if every single one "whined" about it it wouldn't make a difference besides getting old and annoying (which it did :P). They would all have to send emails, letters, post on 4kids blogs, etc etc to make a difference. I doubt even half us actually whined to the right people anyway so I have to ask you, why are you calling dromers jerks for speaking their minds? Many people who didn't like FF gave good points as to why.
There were a few who got under my skin though who couldn't think of anything better than "I hate the animation style! Whaaaaa!" I'll give you that but not nearly enough complained enough to get the show cancelled. There were less dromers complaining about it than other viewers. More goes into cancelling a show than a couple hundred upset internet forum members.

[Roseangelo]

There are currently only 777 active technodrome users. Even if every single one "whined" about it it wouldn't make a difference besides getting old and annoying (which it did :P). They would all have to send emails, letters, post on 4kids blogs, etc etc to make a difference. I doubt even half us actually whined to the right people anyway so I have to ask you, why are you calling dromers jerks for speaking their minds? Many people who didn't like FF gave good points as to why.
There were a few who got under my skin though who couldn't think of anything better than "I hate the animation style! Whaaaaa!" I'll give you that but not nearly enough complained enough to get the show cancelled. There were less dromers complaining about it than other viewers. More goes into cancelling a show than a couple hundred upset internet forum members.

Agreed... how can people honestly think discord among the fans over FF would cause it to be canceled while we are repeatedly given the middle finger on EVERYTHING?

[turtle142]

Roseangelo is right, anyone who's been a lifelong TMNT fan like I and many others know that the corporations don't listen to the fans on most anything else (MOST, sometimes they do listen and I appreciate that) So the book is really out on why they cancelled Fast Forward. The thing, I think, is that it was more of an internal thing, Laird himself is quoted as saying he really didn't like FF all that much, so although I'm sure ratings were fair for FF, I think it was more the desire to get back to basics. However, I do empathize with those of you who are upset FF didn't get to play out, I loved the show, and thought it was a fun direction. BUT, would I have done it if I was 4kids? No way, too radical an idea for me, but I'm glad someone had the courage to at least try it. Thnx.

[Drtooth]

Agreed... how can people honestly think discord among the fans over FF would cause it to be canceled while we are repeatedly given the middle finger on EVERYTHING?

Looking at the Rapping Donatello action figure, and the severe lack of special edition movies, I can see your point.

I tend to think it was both a blend of that and Peter just not liking it somehow.

[Sage Ninja]

the only bitching I'm seeing right now is people saying how fans who didn't like FF got the show cancelled. That and alot of personal attacks on people who like FF from people that don't and vice verca.

[Roseangelo]

My understanding of the situation is that Playmates insisted that the show be changed because the FF action figures were tanking so badly. Since they fund 1/3rd of the show, they can do that.

[Jelly Bean]

it's a shame that playmates has such pull on the direction of the series. :(

[gobo]

O_o All investors do. Did that need to be said? :-?

[Drtooth]

My understanding of the situation is that Playmates insisted that the show be changed because the FF action figures were tanking so badly. Since they fund 1/3rd of the show, they can do that.

I still don't see how they "tanked." As soon as they hit the shelves, they pretty much sold solidly. Maybe some of the other characters, like the Dark Turtles, didn't do as well. But I saw them sell pretty well, until the movie line started hitting shelves. Then most retailers pulled them, put them on clearance, and we never saw them again. Took me MONTHS to finally get a FF Donatello.

And wasn't it the poorer sales of Paleo Patrol figures that even caused FF in the first place?

[Revan]

Playmates just needs to realize tmnt isn't as HUGE as it was in the late 80s and early 90s. They simply can't and won't sell as many figures as they did back in the OT glory days.

[Drtooth]

Playmates just needs to realize tmnt isn't as HUGE as it was in the late 80s and early 90s. They simply can't and won't sell as many figures as they did back in the OT glory days.

Of course, it's basically the ONLY cartoon related toy line I've seen in a while. Until the movie line came out, yes. But There's nothing but Summer movies and Star Wars on the pegs at every store I go to.

[Revan]

^That and this new Ben 10 show. Those figures are usually stocked up everyday.

Is BTTS going to be good? I don't see why not. Seems like they have some good ideas on the table. I just hope they don't continue to regress each character for the sake of the stereotype. That may be hoping for too much but we'll see.

[Roseangelo]

I still don't see how they "tanked." As soon as they hit the shelves, they pretty much sold solidly. Maybe some of the other characters, like the Dark Turtles, didn't do as well. But I saw them sell pretty well, until the movie line started hitting shelves. Then most retailers pulled them, put them on clearance, and we never saw them again. Took me MONTHS to finally get a FF Donatello.

This is when I have to agree with people like Peter and Playmates and say that you cannot assume that sales at your local store are representative of the sales across the ENTIRE country. You can throw all the anecdote at me that you like, but the only thing that matters are the real numbers.

And wasn't it the poorer sales of Paleo Patrol figures that even caused FF in the first place?

No, it was the general declining ratings of the cartoon.

[Sage Ninja]

No, it was the general declining ratings of the cartoon.

I thought the ratings for FF where supposed to be doing good? Or did you mean the series in general?

[Roseangelo]

I thought the ratings for FF where supposed to be doing good? Or did you mean the series in general?

Declining ratings for the cartoon Pre-FF caused FF.

FF's ratings only ever did anything impressive after the release of the movie. According the Murphy, FF got its highest ratings, and the highest ratings of the 2K3 show ever, last fall (long after FF had been canceled).

[gobo]

What does that say about the rest of 4kids' line-up? ^_^

[Drtooth]

What does that say about the rest of 4kids' line-up? ^_^

4Kids comes in solidly second or (unfortunately due to ABC) third after Kid's WB... at least, when it comes to standard broadcast TV. Their lowest rated shows this season were Viva Pinata and Adrenilline project. The latter stayed solidly on the schedual for almost an entire season before they wised up and ran reruns of something else. I can't blame them for not making Pinata a grand hit. It's one of the few kid oriented games for the X-Box, which has a higher teen- adult gamer demographic

Though, it needs to be said that the "lost Season" episodes rivaled the ratings for Spectacular Spider-Man... they beat them some of the time, actually.

TMNT and 4Kids have a certian bond. it's basically their biggest money maker at the moment, and they'll continue to milk them as long as they can. They are no longer dubbing Pokemon, which was a huge source of their revenue (due in part to the fact Nintendo wanted it done cheaper, and the bad blood after the Kirby debacle).

But on a matter of toys and toy lines, I still don't see how the FF line tanked any worse than paleo patrol. I mean, I saw irrelevant plastic dinos on the shelves for months and months without a clearance. I still think it has something to do with the FF and Movie lines not being able to exist on the same shelves. Heck, I know a Target that, dispite the fact they sold well, cleared out all the Spectacular Spidey toys within weeks of getting them in to make room for more movie Spidey type toys. And the movie has been long gone.

Then again, there's always room for movie lines, and cartoon based lines get the shaft all the time. Ben 10, Pokemon (which frankly isn't doing that well) , and Bakudan or whatever it is are the only toon based lines around. Maybe Justice League, but then again, I see them getting pushed off for other DC related toys. I give Mattel credit for trying a Cartoon Network line, though the quality of the toys shows why they weren't a hit.

I'm just hoping they get these BTTS toys out as soon as possible. if they don;t do it just before the show starts, the line maight as well be doomed.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah!!! I want BTTS-style April, Casey and 'Shredder'.

[Drtooth]

Yeah!!! I want BTTS-style April, Casey and 'Shredder'.

I, as I've been saying for a while, just don't want to see any more irrelevant movie based toys. Especially the "music turtles" line. But that's neither here nor there.

If they want a BTTS line to be successful, they should release it just before the cartoon starts up. You wait too long, and the interrest will fade. They released the movie toys a good 3 months before the film (in some cases), and they sold solidly around the time the movie first came out.

Plus, if they wait too long, the BTTS episodes will run out, and the toys will just be cancelled.

[Lil G]

^That and this new Ben 10 show. Those figures are usually stocked up everyday.

Is BTTS going to be good? I don't see why not. Seems like they have some good ideas on the table. I just hope they don't continue to regress each character for the sake of the stereotype. That may be hoping for too much but we'll see.

ben 10 came out in 2005

[Revan]

:ohwell:why did you quote me?

and what was the point of this post?
ben 10 came out in 2005

[gobo]

He's a kid showing off his trivia knowledge. Got a problem with that? O_o

[Revan]

Oh I thought he made a mistake because his post seemed a bit random and out of place :ohwell:

[Vincent]

what would make no sense what so ever would be if they still ran around in the darkness when for the first time in their lives they could be out in the open with no penalty.
That's my entire point. They're ninja and they're turtles. It's in the title and the very core of the premise. Them being ninja and turtles causes them to be unable to walk the streets. This creates conflict. The very central conflict of the TMNT as a concept. So why send them to a future where the central conflict is gone? It completely ruins the entire premise and point of them being ninja turtles. The fact that they're turtles no longer matters, and the fact that they're ninja is no longer useful. With FF, the TMNT premise is dead.

If you'd still be emotional, dark, and brooding after all that then you would be what we now refer to as emo. So emo in fact you might as well skip the foreplay and just kill yourself.
It's not about being dark and brooding and emo. It's about having feelings, growing from experiences and reacting to events with emotional reality. And just as importantly, it's about having emotionally resonant and interesting events happen, for the characters to feel things about and grow from. That's what good storytelling is. Walking to grandma's house with a basket isn't a story. You need a Wolf, you need a legitimate reason to fear the Wolf, and if Little Red Riding Hood was anything like a good story, Red would be traumatized by finding out her grandma's been eaten, it would take some time for Red to work through said trauma, and she would eventually come out a stronger woman for it, able to exact revenge on the Wolf herself, without any help from the Hunter. Am I getting my point across here? I'm not talking about brooding for nothing. I'm talking about growth. It's a process, known among other things for its extreme importance to the art of storytelling (quite probably second only to conflict). Look it up.

I see plenty of motivation here.
Well, I don't see enough. Could be I need new glasses. Or it could be I have higher standards than that.

[Revan]

It's not about being dark and brooding and emo. It's about having feelings, growing from experiences and reacting to events with emotional reality. And just as importantly, it's about having emotionally resonant and interesting events happen, for the characters to feel things about and grow from. That's what good storytelling is. Walking to grandma's house with a basket isn't a story. You need a Wolf, you need a legitimate reason to fear the Wolf, and if Little Red Riding Hood was anything like a good story, Red would be traumatized by finding out her grandma's been eaten, it would take some time for Red to work through said trauma, and she would eventually come out a stronger woman for it, able to exact revenge on the Wolf herself, without any help from the Hunter. Am I getting my point across here? I'm not talking about brooding for nothing. I'm talking about growth. It's a process, known among other things for its extreme importance to the art of storytelling (quite probably second only to conflict). Look it up.
Might I suggest the Mirage/Image comics? You seem quite into this and 4kids is probably not the best bet for someone so serious.

I have to go with Spit, the turtles deserved a vacation and yes it was a bit out of the norm, turtlewise, but hey, it's a kids cartoon. That's the way of things

[Spitfire]

That's my entire point. They're ninja and they're turtles. It's in the title and the very core of the premise. Them being ninja and turtles causes them to be unable to walk the streets. This creates conflict. The very central conflict of the TMNT as a concept. So why send them to a future where the central conflict is gone? It completely ruins the entire premise and point of them being ninja turtles. The fact that they're turtles no longer matters, and the fact that they're ninja is no longer useful. With FF, the TMNT premise is dead.
So then any story that takes place in volume 4 or after is a killing of the turtles entire premise then? You're trying to argue they still can't be ninja even if they are allowed to be out in the open. If your going to tell me they never once used any of their acquired skills in FF you must need "new glasses". While on that note tell me how they were being ninja in the 5th season? Is turning into a dragon part of being a ninja? So if you want to get super technical the premise changed gears before FF.

It's not about being dark and brooding and emo. It's about having feelings, growing from experiences and reacting to events with emotional reality. And just as importantly, it's about having emotionally resonant and interesting events happen, for the characters to feel things about and grow from.
Wow where do I even start here. Let me ask you this, what do you know about children or marketing? Obviously nothing because if you knew anything you would know you need to keep core audiences in mind when you're making a TV series or film. The core audience isn't teenagers and adults, it's little children. When ratings are going down because monsters are getting sawed in half with chain guns and characters are turning into zombies with body parts that rot off there comes time for a change in the series. This is business. I accepted FF and I learned to enjoy it. You may think I have low standards but you'd be very wrong. I am one of the pickiest people about anything I know. I normally shred things apart especially when I don't like it.

That's what good storytelling is. Walking to grandma's house with a basket isn't a story. You need a Wolf, you need a legitimate reason to fear the Wolf, and if Little Red Riding Hood was anything like a good story, Red would be traumatized by finding out her grandma's been eaten, it would take some time for Red to work through said trauma, and she would eventually come out a stronger woman for it, able to exact revenge on the Wolf herself, without any help from the Hunter. Am I getting my point across here?
No because you just used a fairy tale as an example of how a cartoon should be. You obviously have no idea of the different types of stories.
There's fairy tales, folk tales, and heroes journey. Fairy tales and folk tales are mostly about teaching people lessons and many of them contain magical elements and talking animals. The heroes journey is what most cartoons follow, and TMNT is no exception. It follows the journey of a hero as they meet their allies, take down guardians of their enemy*the shadow*, confront their shadow, conquer their fears, defeat their shadow, and lastly return with some sort of prize which can be knowledge or a material object. Adult stories expand on these simple ideas and add all the depth you are speaking of. Children's stories however do not because children are not interested in the lament or mental torment of a character. If "Little Red Riding Hood" was like that it would negate the entire purpose of the tale in the first place. What you described sounds like the "Tim Burton" or "American Mcgee" version of the story. The moral of the story is completely lost and it would teach children revenge is okay, which is something I would imagine most parents don't want to teach their children.

I'm not talking about brooding for nothing. I'm talking about growth. It's a process, known among other things for its extreme importance to the art of storytelling (quite probably second only to conflict). Look it up.
Again the fact you are looking for complex storytelling in a modern day children's cartoon is ludicrous. That kind of storytelling, if ever applied to a children's series, does not last very long. Name one show that has recently come out with complex storylines as you described that lasted a long time without being canceled or revamped. And don't give me Batman, that's tired and old. Batman was different and an exception, but even Batman fell victim to format change and being toned down.

Well, I don't see enough. Could be I need new glasses. Or it could be I have higher standards than that.
Could be your standards are too high. Your one of those people that want a rated R turtles movie. It isn't going to happen. Either play the hand you're dealt or fold.

You're never getting a rated R turtles movie.
2K3 is gone and the series will never be like that again.
FF is over, so get over it.

[Sage Ninja]

hm, what about Avatar the Last Air Bender or The Justice League and the Justice League Unlimited? I'm not sure how long ago these shows ended but it seemed fairly recent.

[Spitfire]

Never saw Avatar but I did look it up and it hasn't been on as long as turtles was. At least it doesn't have as many episodes. Turtles lasted about 117 episodes before FF came along, Avatar is up to 60-ish so we will see. I see it won awards and stuff so it must be good but I don't see it lasting very long. Tons of good award winning series get canned. They may be good but they don't pull ratings, though this one seems to be doing quite well.

As for Justice League that's a very good example. Every DC series though has good storytelling and is usually pretty amazing. At least the ones from the 90's. I almost wouldn't count those because Paul Dini can get away with murder in his TV series. Wish he'd do more shows.

[Vincent]

So then any story that takes place in volume 4 or after is a killing of the turtles entire premise then? You're trying to argue they still can't be ninja even if they are allowed to be out in the open.
I haven't read volume 4, but sure, if they're out in the open it might as well be about somebody else.


If your going to tell me they never once used any of their acquired skills in FF you must need "new glasses". While on that note tell me how they were being ninja in the 5th season? Is turning into a dragon part of being a ninja? So if you want to get super technical the premise changed gears before FF.
I was not very fond of the fifth season either. A couple of good episodes, but the whole ninja tribunal thing was kind of stupid.


Wow where do I even start here. Let me ask you this, what do you know about children or marketing? Obviously nothing because if you knew anything you would know you need to keep core audiences in mind when you're making a TV series or film. The core audience isn't teenagers and adults, it's little children. When ratings are going down because monsters are getting sawed in half with chain guns and characters are turning into zombies with body parts that rot off there comes time for a change in the series. This is business. I accepted FF and I learned to enjoy it. You may think I have low standards but you'd be very wrong. I am one of the pickiest people about anything I know. I normally shred things apart especially when I don't like it.
I was a child once. I very much appreciated shows that didn't talk down to kids. I very much appreciated shows that didn't treat their audience like idiots. I very much appreciated shows that mixed good storytelling with intelligent comedy. Problem was, they didn't make a lot of shows like that when I was a kid. So I didn't often get satisfaction.
TMNT should take a note from Doctor Who, which, from what I understand, is insanely popular among kids in the UK, because it has drama, peril, character progression, et cetera, on top of the intelligent but accessible humor.


Children's stories however do not because children are not interested in the lament or mental torment of a character. If "Little Red Riding Hood" was like that it would negate the entire purpose of the tale in the first place. What you described sounds like the "Tim Burton" or "American Mcgee" version of the story. The moral of the story is completely lost and it would teach children revenge is okay, which is something I would imagine most parents don't want to teach their children.
The wolf was a metaphor. The "revenge" symbolized getting rid of one's internal problems. And don't tell me children don't understand metaphors. I watched plenty of "violent" stuff as a child, and nothing ever made me not want to be a pacifist. The moral isn't lost. Just different. It becomes a story of finding strength from bad experiences.


Again the fact you are looking for complex storytelling in a modern day children's cartoon is ludicrous. That kind of storytelling, if ever applied to a children's series, does not last very long. Name one show that has recently come out with complex storylines as you described that lasted a long time without being canceled or revamped. And don't give me Batman, that's tired and old. Batman was different and an exception, but even Batman fell victim to format change and being toned down.
Again I say: The new "Doctor Who" series. Just came out of its fourth season, which was quite deep and emotionally "dark", even scary in places, and the storytelling is top notch. The show is still a huge hit with kids as well as adults.


Could be your standards are too high. Your one of those people that want a rated R turtles movie. It isn't going to happen. Either play the hand you're dealt or fold.
You're never getting a rated R turtles movie.
2K3 is gone and the series will never be like that again.
FF is over, so get over it.
I know better than to expect to ever get an R-rated TMNT movie, and I don't think it's necessary. I wouldn't mind a PG-13 direct-to-DVD thing like "Batman: Gotham Knight", though, but screw a rating, even a kids show should have place for good storytelling. Kids aren't all as stupid as you seem to think they are. A lot of 'em respond well to quality if presented with it. And those who get a taste of intelligent storytelling at a young age are probably likely to grow up smarter (and with better taste) for it. Intelligent storytelling doesn't have to be ultra-violent and just for grown-ups. I know I desperately wished for it as a child, but I kept getting the same old stupid jokes, recycled plots, faulty logic and broken aesops, and look how I turned out: Whiny. ;)

All I'm saying is kids don't wanna be talked down to.

[Drtooth]

You're never getting a rated R turtles movie.
2K3 is gone and the series will never be like that again.
FF is over, so get over it.

TMNT quote of the year!

Anyway, All we can do is hope for the best the series can be until we get solid details. So far we got a loose explaination of the plot.

Point 1: The Turtles come home, while Splinter gets trapped in the future. Now, that could mean the entire 13 episodes could be devoted to it, or a good portion of them. It could be focused in a multipart arc, or it could be a connecting device that exists as a background concern (like how the turtles had to go home in FF. Not all the episodes focused on it, but it was constantly brought up).

Point 2: They have been gone 1 year in their own time. We know that the villains have flourished in that period, but we don't have anything but a loose idea how and to what extent. And what of Casey and April? Did their relationship go further without 5 animals getting in the way?

Point 3: Serling will be there. A lot could go wrong with this, but a lot could potentially grow the character. How will he react to the past? And will the Turtles continue their immature actions against him?

Point 4: Viral will come back as a villain, and she may possibly take on the role and title of The Shredder.

By piecing it together, it sounds pretty good. Still don't know about Serling.

[Spitfire]

I haven't read volume 4, but sure, if they're out in the open it might as well be about somebody else.
So then you argue a premise can't change? I don't know how many of the comics you read but it comes time at some point for the story to progress and the next logical step was for them to be discovered. In volume 4 there's alien hating extremists and all kinds of other crap for them to deal with. It's not like just because their in the open they can't practice being ninja. There's more to being ninja then sneaking around in the dark and if that was all they do they hardly do that in 2K3 as it is.

I was a child once. I very much appreciated shows that didn't talk down to kids. I very much appreciated shows that didn't treat their audience like idiots. I very much appreciated shows that mixed good storytelling with intelligent comedy. Problem was, they didn't make a lot of shows like that when I was a kid. So I didn't often get satisfaction.
TMNT should take a note from Doctor Who, which, from what I understand, is insanely popular among kids in the UK, because it has drama, peril, character progression, et cetera, on top of the intelligent but accessible humor.
As was I and as did I. However we don't like in 1990 anymore, we live in 2000. Things have changed quite a bit since then. Parents are censoring the crap out of everything because anything and everything bad their children do is blamed on anything and everything except themselves.

And do you live in the UK or the states? Because I've been to Europe and TV over there is a whole different world then here. For one you can swear if you like on TV there's little censoring of anything. And no kid here watches Dr.Who so that really doesn't apply to the US. Dr. Who is shown here on the Sci-Fi channel at night in a block of other shows kid don't watch.

The wolf was a metaphor. The "revenge" symbolized getting rid of one's internal problems. And don't tell me children don't understand metaphors. I watched plenty of "violent" stuff as a child, and nothing ever made me not want to be a pacifist. The moral isn't lost. Just different. It becomes a story of finding strength from bad experiences.
I'm not saying your wrong I'm saying modern day parenting doesn't permit stories to be told in such a fashion. I watched violent stuff as a kid too and I am quite a pacifist myself. Personally I think violent movies, TV shows, and video games can be an outlet for ones natural urge to be violent. It's a form of mental masturbation in a sense. I agree that it's good for kids to see a little. Sometimes it has the reverse effect but more often then not it keeps people at bay. Unfortunately though parents today as I said fail to take any responsibility for their kids actions so they blame TV and all that jazz. This leads to massive censoring and TV shows being toned down. Just a few years ago cartoons were allowed to have guns in them, real guns that fired bullets not lasers, and you could have blood. Do you see that anymore? Maybe in a DC series but that's it and I'm not even sure they have it in those anymore.


Again I say: The new "Doctor Who" series. Just came out of its fourth season, which was quite deep and emotionally "dark", even scary in places, and the storytelling is top notch. The show is still a huge hit with kids as well as adults.
And I repeat again it is not regarded as a children's program in the US. Also most American's don't find British humor funny at all. Most of them hate their movies as well which I quite enjoy. Unlike Hollywood movies it seems European ones can get away with a lot more. I see a lot of movies come out that just couldn't be done in the states.


I know better than to expect to ever get an R-rated TMNT movie, and I don't think it's necessary. I wouldn't mind a PG-13 direct-to-DVD thing like "Batman: Gotham Knight", though, but screw a rating, even a kids show should have place for good storytelling. Kids aren't all as stupid as you seem to think they are. A lot of 'em respond well to quality if presented with it. And those who get a taste of intelligent storytelling at a young age are probably likely to grow up smarter (and with better taste) for it. Intelligent storytelling doesn't have to be ultra-violent and just for grown-ups. I know I desperately wished for it as a child, but I kept getting the same old stupid jokes, recycled plots, faulty logic and broken aesops, and look how I turned out: Whiny. ;)

All I'm saying is kids don't wanna be talked down to.

How much do you know about kids? Majoring in what I am it's part of my job to know my demographic. And from what I have learned about demographics kids want to see one thing, their heroes. This is what kids want, their heroes, winning every battle, escaping anything, and in the end saving the day. They don't care about complex storylines and character development; as my teacher would say, "Save it for your other pictures." Now that's not to say they shouldn't have any of those elements but ones as complex as you are requesting isn't going to happen in an American kids series.

But like I said it's over so let's move on and look forward to "Back To The Sewers". And I hope you know I enjoy a good spot of discussion here and there I'm not trying to be argumentative with you or anything.

By piecing it together, it sounds pretty good. Still don't know about Serling.
I thought Serling was funny at times. I expect since he's in it there will be quite a few jokes about how "dirty" the past is.

[Drtooth]

I thought Serling was funny at times. I expect since he's in it there will be quite a few jokes about how "dirty" the past is.

Sounds good to me, but there's only three cartoon characters (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KA0TS9l_nJE) that can make a career out of annoying the heck out of somebody.

[Jester]

I thought Serling was funny at times. I expect since he's in it there will be quite a few jokes about how "dirty" the past is.

Can you imagine when he learns he's living in a sewer....:P

I'm re-watching >> (that's right I'm a gluten for punishment.) and I must say that I see great potential in the series that was kinda squandered. I realized how much I hate Mike in "Clash of the Turtle Titans," TT was right he's a jealous louse. But in re-watching "The Journal" I loved how it fit the continuity established by the first 5 seasons.(Yes five, the Lost season did happen)

Nano is one of the Justice Force members reverted to a baby...kinda weird, since he was only an "adult" for a little over a month (part of the Journal's story, the guys go back only a month after their blast to the future.) and Karai mentions all that she and Leo have been through, speaking of the Demon Shredder. Don's story fits continuity too, only one that doesn't is Raph's but it makes sense, because by then Splinter was just phoning in in.

>> was a decent series. No 2k3, but was The New Adventures of Batman as good as BM:TAS? Hey, now I see how this compares to the DCAU....B2TS is the TMNT JL(U)! (Or would it be Batman Beyond....only if there were a new group of mutants...like Leo's Acolytes in the Archie series....THERE YOU GO 4KIDS, the next TMNT series. Mutant Ninja Turtles. :P)

[NameGoesHere1066]

I'm really not big on Serling coming back, that robot annoyed me. Not so much for his character but because he seemed to represent the turtles regression in maturity by how they acted toward him. I just don't want to see more of the behavior they showed to Serling in BTTS.

[Drtooth]

I'm really not big on Serling coming back, that robot annoyed me. Not so much for his character but because he seemed to represent the turtles regression in maturity by how they acted toward him. I just don't want to see more of the behavior they showed to Serling in BTTS.

That's my biggest concern. I actually liked the character of Serling, even near the beginning. But I think the turtles immature teasing was a bigger waste of time than a running gag. I almost wish they had a more mildly friendly teasing relationship, like what Raph and Mikey have. But unfortunately it was a porr imitation of Yakko, Wakko, and Dot towards Dr. Scratchensniff if anything.

But I agree.... a cleanliness robot reacting to being in the sewers has limitless potential... Or son't they live near the water reserve? I lost track 2 lairs ago.

[NameGoesHere1066]

meh, he was funny to a point, but I gotta say his sterotypical long suffering british butler shtick lost it's flavor after awhile.

[Vincent]

So then you argue a premise can't change?
There's a difference between changing a premise and destroying its core, the very thing that makes it tick.


As was I and as did I. However we don't like in 1990 anymore, we live in 2000. Things have changed quite a bit since then. Parents are censoring the crap out of everything because anything and everything bad their children do is blamed on anything and everything except themselves.
Which is quite unfortunate in my opinion. However, there's plenty of intelligent things in terms of storytelling you can get away with without having to worry about censorship. I'm not asking for blood and gore. I'm asking for emotion, character development and intelligent plots with some actual thought behind them. Is that really too much to ask?

And do you live in the UK or the states? Because I've been to Europe and TV over there is a whole different world then here. For one you can swear if you like on TV there's little censoring of anything. And no kid here watches Dr.Who so that really doesn't apply to the US. Dr. Who is shown here on the Sci-Fi channel at night in a block of other shows kid don't watch.
I don't live in the UK nor the US. Sweden, born an raised and still residing.
I doubt it's the kids' fault that Doctor Who is on at night in the US. If it aired earlier in the evening and was promoted as the family show it is, chances are it'd have more younger viewers.


I'm not saying your wrong I'm saying modern day parenting doesn't permit stories to be told in such a fashion. I watched violent stuff as a kid too and I am quite a pacifist myself. Personally I think violent movies, TV shows, and video games can be an outlet for ones natural urge to be violent. It's a form of mental masturbation in a sense. I agree that it's good for kids to see a little. Sometimes it has the reverse effect but more often then not it keeps people at bay. Unfortunately though parents today as I said fail to take any responsibility for their kids actions so they blame TV and all that jazz. This leads to massive censoring and TV shows being toned down. Just a few years ago cartoons were allowed to have guns in them, real guns that fired bullets not lasers, and you could have blood. Do you see that anymore? Maybe in a DC series but that's it and I'm not even sure they have it in those anymore.
We're talking about two different things here. While I do think it should be okay for kids' shows to have violence in them, I'm aware of how stupid American parents and the FCC can be and the effect that has on art and entertainment. That's beside the point. It's no excuse to tell pointless stories with flat characters. Plenty of interesting and smart stories can be told without pissing anybody off.

How much do you know about kids? Majoring in what I am it's part of my job to know my demographic. And from what I have learned about demographics kids want to see one thing, their heroes. This is what kids want, their heroes, winning every battle, escaping anything, and in the end saving the day. They don't care about complex storylines and character development; as my teacher would say, "Save it for your other pictures." Now that's not to say they shouldn't have any of those elements but ones as complex as you are requesting isn't going to happen in an American kids series.
With risk of sounding like a complete dickhead: You ask the average little kid to come up with a concept for a movie he'd like to see, you make that movie, it'll be a mess. Likely he wouldn't even like it himself if you wiped the fact that he came up with it from his memory before you showed it to him. Most people don't know what they need or why. Case in point: George W. Bush. (I don't mean to sound anti-American or anything - I could nearly as well have mentioned the current Swedish government, but chances are you don't know of 'em). Other case in point: Pretty much any Hollywood feature film where the ending was changed based on the opinions of focus groups.
You ask a kid what he wants. He'll say something simple, like heroes saving the day, 'cause he's not a brilliant writer (yet?), he's a kid. You give a kid something more complex, exciting and altogether better than he could think of, chances are he'll appreciate it. I, for one, have for as long as I remember - and I remember being a kid myself - appreciated stories that went way above what I could have come up with or expected and surprised me. But if you had asked me, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the real reason why I liked the things I liked. Because I didn't know. People generally don't.

But like I said it's over so let's move on and look forward to "Back To The Sewers". And I hope you know I enjoy a good spot of discussion here and there I'm not trying to be argumentative with you or anything.
I'm not whining about FF - I know it's over and I'm glad they're returning to the sewer. Bygones are bygones. I'm talking about BTTS, which is what this thread is for (see title). I sincerely hope that BTTS will have improved writing, and that's the feeling I'm expressing. Hope. And if the first BTTS season doesn't get better, I'll hope the one after that will. We had a taste of a fairly awesome TMNT show on and off for about four seasons. I'd hate to never see it return to that quality, and I'd absolutely love to see it rise above it. Don't know how likely it is to ever do that, but it'd be nice, as I'm very fond of the TMNT as a concept and I'd really like to see it done as much justice as possible.

[Jelly Bean]

off topic: don't confuse George W. Bush as being all what America stands for, so making a remark about him doesn't make you anti-American.

[ZariusTwo]

I cant beleive the States are so stupid that they hoist one of the UK's biggest ratings grabbers, a show that hit TEN MILLION for it's season finale, and stick it on a time only the bloggers are watching

[Spitfire]

I cant beleive the States are so stupid that they hoist one of the UK's biggest ratings grabbers, a show that hit TEN MILLION for it's season finale, and stick it on a time only the bloggers are watching

They do that because most people in the US hate British humor and don't find the series to be as funny as you do. I personally like British humor and I think a lot of the films and series that come out of England are quite funny. However most people do not share my tastes with me and don't agree. Hence why movies such as "In Bruges" get limited releases and shows like "Dr.Who" get late Friday night slots. A huge part of the problem is the lingo. A lot of swear words are different and accents make it difficult to understand things on first viewings. Most people don't have the patience I do.

Example: In the states if you wanted to use a derogatory word to describe someone who is gay you might say "***". However in European movies the word "***" refers to a cigarette so instead they use the word "Puff". It's not as funny when you don't understand that. Another word is "Putz" which I recently found out means "Penis". Something that helps me however is one of my close friends is Irish with a heavy accent and she translates for me sometimes but often times I can discover what something means for myself. But like I said not everyone is as patient as me.

The states like ripping off European series not airing the originals. When I worked at Best Buy and someone asked for "The Office" they'd get mad if I handed them the European version of the series. Most of them had no idea there was an original series and the ones who did claimed the European version wasn't funny. Obviously that doesn't mean everyone in the states hates that kind of humor but I got a good feeling most of them are impartial to it.

[gobo]

When I worked at Best Buy and someone asked for "The Office" they'd get mad if I handed them the European version of the series. Most of them had no idea there was an original series and the ones who did claimed the European version wasn't funny.
Neither was the American version, if you ask me. So, that's a pretty weak argument. :P

[NameGoesHere1066]

I'm one of those rare souls that loves over seas movies and television. And I actually like british humour, they are quite clever and imaginative with their quips. American humour is too crude now adays and relies to heavily on shock value to be funny.

[ZariusTwo]

They do that because most people in the US hate British humor and don't find the series to be as funny as you do.

Doctor Who isnt a comedy.

[Roseangelo]

They do that because most people in the US hate British humor and don't find the series to be as funny as you do.

Doctor Who isn't exactly a comedy, although it certainly has its moments. As far as British shows go, it's pretty British-lite IMO. The most common criticism of the new Doctor Who by fans of the old series who refuse to like the new series is that it's "too American." I think the only thing that keeps it with its late night time slot is its status in this country as an obscure cult thing that makes Trekkers look normal.

Personally, I find the people (namely, Americans) who are snobbish about liking British culture to be as bad as the people who are ignorant of it. A slew of my favorite things and people happen to be British, but none of it is because they're British. And I think the American version of The Office is fantastic and hilarious and come next Spring, my favorite show on TV will be LOST. If it's good, it's good. No need to pre-judge something simply based on its roots.

[Spitfire]

Neither was the American version, if you ask me.
I can agree with you there.

I'm one of those rare souls that loves over seas movies and television. And I actually like british humour, they are quite clever and imaginative with their quips. American humour is too crude now adays and relies to heavily on shock value to be funny.
Yes and I expect most people on this board are more like us who happen to enjoy foreign stuff but we far from represent the mass majority.

Doctor Who isnt a comedy.
Very true, but it has a fair share of comedy in it and my main point was the gap in the language used and the accents. I was also commenting on how it may be considered a children's program in Europe but that's hardly the case over here. The ratings system is worlds different.

Doctor Who isn't exactly a comedy, although it certainly has its moments. As far as British shows go, it's pretty British-lite IMO. The most common criticism of the new Doctor Who by fans of the old series who refuse to like the new series is that it's "too American." I think the only thing that keeps it with its late night time slot is its status in this country as an obscure cult thing that makes Trekkers look normal.
I repeat Dr.Who is just one example, maybe not the best of example. I really don't care what a bunch of message board fanboys think of the series I talk about what I see. Just like if I was an outsider looking in on turtles and someone told me a message board full of fans told me the new series was good or bad. It wouldn't affect me at all because fans take everything to an extreme. For all I know they re-edit the series for the US.

Personally, I find the people (namely, Americans) who are snobbish about liking British culture to be as bad as the people who are ignorant of it. A slew of my favorite things and people happen to be British, but none of it is because they're British.
It honestly makes me wonder if it's like that in other countries. I didn't notice it much in Europe when I went but I only watched a spot of TV the entire time I was there. The main thing I noticed was the censor was allot different but I had heard about that already.

[Vincent]

They do that because most people in the US hate British humor and don't find the series to be as funny as you do. I personally like British humor and I think a lot of the films and series that come out of England are quite funny. However most people do not share my tastes with me and don't agree. Hence why movies such as "In Bruges" get limited releases and shows like "Dr.Who" get late Friday night slots. A huge part of the problem is the lingo. A lot of swear words are different and accents make it difficult to understand things on first viewings. Most people don't have the patience I do.
First of all, Doctor Who is not a comedy show. It's funny, certainly, and it has plenty of comedic characters, but it's not a show you watch just for the comedy. You watch it because the stories are amazing (especially Russel T Davies and Steven Moffat are insanely talented writers).
Secondly, it's really strange how Americans have trouble understanding British accents. I'm Swedish. English is my second language. I watch Doctor Who (as well as American shows) without subtitles, and I understand every single word. Hell, I've watched Red Dwarf (where the main character has a thick Liverpudlian accent) and Torchwood (where most characters are Welsh) without any problem at all following what's going on or what people are saying.
Thirdly, what does (generally) American comedy have that could possibly make anyone find it superior to British comedy? Fart jokes? People getting hit on the head? Not saying that's all American comedy is - there's plenty of funny American comedy - but it's pretty much the only obvious things I can think of that specifically set American "humor" apart from British "humour". It seems to be the entire premise of the works of Aaron Seltzer and Jason Friedberg, for example, and their movies do well in the US, from what I understand (otherwise they wouldn't keep making them).

[Spitfire]

First of all, Doctor Who is not a comedy show. It's funny, certainly, and it has plenty of comedic characters, but it's not a show you watch just for the comedy. You watch it because the stories are amazing (especially Russel T Davies and Steven Moffat are insanely talented writers).
Well then maybe your watching some different Dr.Who then I saw but all the episodes I saw played up the comedy pretty heavy. Yet again my point is it is not at all considered a children's program in the US.

Secondly, it's really strange how Americans have trouble understanding British accents. I'm Swedish. English is my second language. I watch Doctor Who (as well as American shows) without subtitles, and I understand every single word. Hell, I've watched Red Dwarf (where the main character has a thick Liverpudlian accent) and Torchwood (where most characters are Welsh) without any problem at all following what's going on or what people are saying.
That's you, there's a vast difference in how things are there as opposed to here. Here people are barely exposed to accents at all at a young age for the most part*Though that is starting to change*, especially European ones, so when most people hear them they just think their funny. Most people don't take things seriously that come from say Britain with heavy accent, I'd blame Monty Python for implanting it in everyones head over here that British people are just to be laughed at. You have no idea how many times I've watched a film featuring British actors and people in the theater are giggling at it every time they speak. I honestly sometimes wonder if this countries stoner population is larger then any other in the world.

Thirdly, what does (generally) American comedy have that could possibly make anyone find it superior to British comedy? Fart jokes? People getting hit on the head? Not saying that's all American comedy is - there's plenty of funny American comedy - but it's pretty much the only obvious things I can think of that specifically set American "humor" apart from British "humour". It seems to be the entire premise of the works of Aaron Seltzer and Jason Friedberg, for example, and their movies do well in the US, from what I understand (otherwise they wouldn't keep making them).
Nothing in my personal opinion but humor in most European movies I've seen is very dry and a lot of people don't like that. Sadly most American people like slap stick where people get "hit on the head" and yeah fart. There's a lot that sets them apart. Again words used to describe certain things, there's also more intelligence I think behind the European humor at least more often then American.

And no Aaron and Jason's movies do not do well over here. The only reason they keep getting made is because their super cheap and must pull in just enough profit to make it worth their time. They even got nominated for a Razzie last year. I haven't talked to a single person who has thought any movie they've written was funny who was over the age of 12. The only reason people continue to see those movies is they know their bad so they release them over here when nothing else is out and people go see it that weekend just to go watch a movie.

I don't speak for the entire country here but I make it my business to know what general consensus of my people is. It's going to be a necessary tool in my chosen career path.

But I'm done speaking on the matter. If you really want to see and experience the differences you'd really have to see it for yourself. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to understand or believe just by reading something one person's postings on a Ninja Turtles forum. So unless someone say something that's so out there I feel I need to comment I'm going to go back to discussing turtles.

[Roseangelo]

I don't speak for the entire country here but I make it my business to know what general consensus of my people is. It's going to be a necessary tool in my chosen career path.

Honestly Spitfire, your assessments of the general consensus of "your" people is as much BS as anyone could come up with. And you've had three people tell you Doctor Who is not a comedy, yet you still insist that it is based on what you have seen. Perhaps you should give these assessments a bit of a break, because you obviously aren't seeing the whole picture.

And I'm just using the Doctor Who bit as an example - I realize in the end it's a huge non-factor - but I also don't see any reality in your reasonings for why people either do or don't like British entertainment. The whole bit about not being able to understand the accents? That's BS. Please don't be saying these things on behalf of the entire country. Just let it be - none of this even has anything to do with BTTS.

[Spitfire]

Honestly Spitfire, your assessments of the general consensus of "your" people is as much BS as anyone could come up with.
Alright come walk in my shoes, talk to the people I've talked to, do the exact things in life I have, and tell me I'm full of it after that.

And you've had three people tell you Doctor Who is not a comedy, yet you still insist that it is based on what you have seen. Perhaps you should give these assessments a bit of a break, because you obviously aren't seeing the whole picture.
You aren't seeing the whole picture your dancing around the fact I was stating that the series is not a children's program in the states. I said it was heavy on comedy, maybe it was just the episodes I watched. Unlike most of you I don't numb my brain watching every program on TV so I take in what I do and make my assessment. I'll give it a break when I deem it necessary.

And I'm just using the Doctor Who bit as an example - I realize in the end it's a huge non-factor - but I also don't see any reality in your reasonings for why people either do or don't like British entertainment.
Then you obviously don't talk to enough people or haven't seen enough European movies in the theaters.

The whole bit about not being able to understand the accents? That's BS.
Not British accents, I was mainly commenting on others which is why I said European. Another thing I mentioned was lingo which plays a huge role in understanding dialog. If you don't understand the lingo the dialog will make no sense what so ever to some people.

Please don't be saying these things on behalf of the entire country.
You really have trouble reading don't you? Or at least reading anything but what you want to read. I do believe I clearly said this
I don't speak for the entire country here

I find it funny how much trouble people seem to have accepting other people's views on the world. I make broad generalizations but I also make them based off what I have personally experienced. I don't feel the need to shove "in my opinion", "In my experience", and "In my time" in front of every statement I make so I don't hurt someones feelings. It's clear as day everything I'm saying is from experience, an opinion of mine, and from my time. I don't just pull things out of my ass because I want to feel apart of conversation. I honestly don't enjoy sitting here debating with someone who has zero knowledge of how things are in the US, or appears to anyways.

But I also don't enjoy people trying to call me out or calling my views BS. That seems to be a common theme with this message board I've noticed. Every section has it's group of elite that hop around topic by topic trying to belittle everyone who doesn't agree with them. It's driven a few members away unfortunately and the only reason I've yet to join them is because I'm stubborn.

I would love to go back to talking about turtles so unless you want me to continue, because I will, I'd suggest whoever reads this just bite their tongue and not bother replying. You want to continue PM me but at least stop cluttering the topic up with this pointless argument.

[Vincent]

Either way, regardless of how Americans react to the "Europeanness" of Doctor Who, my point in bringing Doctor Who up in the first place was that children are (as proven by the popularity of Doctor Who among children) not too stupid to appreciate intelligent storytelling, and that the TMNT writers should take a note from the Doctor Who writers not in how to be British but in how to entertain children by stimulating their intellects and emotions (as all stories should) instead of treating them like idiots, as it pays off not only in excited children but also in older fans showing up to watch (as proven by the popularity of Doctor Who among teenagers and adults). That is my point, and I see no reason why anyone who cares about children or the TMNT would disagree with it.
And that should conclude the Doctor Who part of the discussion and bring us back to the original question, "Is Back to the sewer going to be a good show?", to which my personal answer is "Only if the people making it treat the franchise with more respect than they have lately".

[Spitfire]

Either way, regardless of how Americans react to the "Europeanness" of Doctor Who, my point in bringing Doctor Who up in the first place was that children are (as proven by the popularity of Doctor Who among children) not too stupid to appreciate intelligent storytelling, and that the TMNT writers should take a note from the Doctor Who writers not in how to be British but in how to entertain children by stimulating their intellects and emotions (as all stories should) instead of treating them like idiots, as it pays off not only in excited children but also in older fans showing up to watch (as proven by the popularity of Doctor Who among teenagers and adults). That is my point, and I see no reason why anyone who cares about children or the TMNT would disagree with it.
I agree with you 100%, I always did I was only debating business stand points. Which ended up turning into a whole different discussion.

And that should conclude the Doctor Who part of the discussion and bring us back to the original question, "Is Back to the sewer going to be a good show?", to which my personal answer is "Only if the people making it treat the franchise with more respect than they have lately".
Well it's the same team of people. I expect a nice little hybrid of FF and 2K3 along with a little bit of the movie. Mixing the three together could make an awesome series and I personally am excited for it. So I say yes with optimism and it appears most fans do as well.

[gobo]

For the record, I make it a point to avoid British humour.

How 'bout them Turtles, huh? :D

[NameGoesHere1066]

I think we've run out of things to talk about in this thread involving the turtles :P

[Time Mistress]

It will be interesting to see if Back to the Sewers can capture any of the magic of the first 4 season and TLS. I do think that Marty Isenberg no longer working on the show is a great loss though.

[NameGoesHere1066]

expecting it to be as good as the first four seasons is only going to end in pain with much whining and moaning and smug "I told you so's" from disgruntled FF fans. I think what we need to look foward to in BTTS is the return to basics of being in present day and seeing old characters we have loved from day one back in action, and an open mind to what ever is in stored. It's probably darker than FF but won't be the dark urban horror/sci fi/drama season four was.

[Sage Ninja]

I just hope that April and Casey's relationship has progressed since the turtles have gone. I mean I'm not expecting April to be pregnant with baby Shadow but maybe some indication that Casey poped the question. Since the episode where he was supposed to didn't end up happening.

[ToTheNines]

It will be interesting to see if Back to the Sewers can capture any of the magic of the first 4 season and TLS.

**** man, TMNT will never have as much magic as it did in season 5.

[Vincent]

**** man, TMNT will never have as much magic as it did in season 5.
I think she meant awesomeness rather than literal hocus pocus magic.

[ToTheNines]

I think she meant awesomeness rather than literal hocus pocus magic.

lol, I was joking. But either way, I hope BttS is nothing like season 5.