Michaelangelo smart? Boy has he got the wrong turtle...

[Sage Ninja]

In nearly every medium Michaelangelo has had the reputation as being the dumb one of the group. And why not, in a group of hero's there has always got to be the dumb person in the group to ask the obvious questions for eighther comic relief or to have one of the intelligent characters spell it out to him as an excuse to inform the audiance step by step on what they are going to do and why, with it it looking like the plot is being patronizing to the veiwers. I don't know why Michaelangelo has always been viewed as the dumb one or where it started but almost all universes portray him as being on the "duh" side. Maybe it started in the orginal comics, or maybe it was the classic toon, but in most cases Michaelangelo is at worst the idiot and at best mearly the least intelligent of the bunch. Some universes emphasis this more than others and show im with have more gray matter between his ears than others. Eighther that or maybe much of his "dumb" behavior is misinterpurted for stupidty when he's really not not. So in your opiniuon which is the smartes version of michaelangelo where he is shown to actually be more clever than moronic?

I think where Michaelangelo's repuation of being dumb orginated in the classic cartoon. He is forever getting picked on by Raphael for being kind of an air head and the others don't seem to have much faith in his smarts. But since i've been rewatching the old show I've been noticing that Michaelangelo isn't as dumb as as i rememer him being. He actually seem rather quick on the up take in several situations and clever/imaginative with dealing with adversaries. And actually seemed pretty capable at solving or figuring out a problem when one was laid on him. He could actually pretty perceptive on occasion and ushaully can see that something is wrong or amiss pretty early on before it really starts making trouble. In the old toon it seemed you where told that Michaelangelo was dumb more often than he genuanly was.

In the New toon there have been alot of complaints that mikey is just an moron, and even though he is at times I think there is more mystery to his intellectual prowess than what is seen on the surface. He seems like he can stratigize when he has to, and whether he is just pulling scenarios comic book plots or if he is coming up with it himself his plans can work. Amybe mikey pretends to be dumber than he is because he doesn't think any one will take him seriously, since most of thetime his brothers think he's an idiot. But it's not as concrete that he is a moron as he lets on to be.

Mirage comics, I haven't read the comics so but it seems he took a back seat when it came to plans or giving input on stratigy and sometimes asked obvious questions. But seemed to enjoy reading. Now I don't know if liking books is a sign of being smart but it least that shows he akes the inciative to learn.

Live ation movie Mikey, he seemed he had an out side the box way of thinking. He seemed to come up with wacky ideas on how to reach a goal like putting an antidote into a bunch of donuts to feed to two monsters, that almost worked.

CGI Mikey seems to be regared as the least intelligent version of Michaelangelo so far due to his over all flightiness.

which Michaelangelo is the smartest version of him?

[Ninjinister]

In Volume 4 of Mirage, the Triceratons see him as a tactical genius in combat.

[triplexxx]

Live ation movie Mikey, he seemed he had an out side the box way of thinking. He seemed to come up with wacky ideas on how to reach a goal like putting an antidote into a bunch of donuts to feed to two monsters, that almost worked.Well, as a matter of fact it did work, just after a little persuasion from the carbon dioxide in the fire extinguishers. I know not to automatically assume he's dumb, I've never thought about the turtles as typical stereotypes.

[Scandia]

I do not know if you have read the Archie TMNT Adventures. But I do not remember Mikey being particularly dumb in that version. He may have been comic relief, but in no way was he incompetent.

[Buffy]

I've been rewatching some old toon TMNT cartoons, and I noticed that Mike comes up a lot with good plans. He may come off as a slacker sometimes, but he knows how to handle himself in a tough situation.

[odupianist]

I think it was also that stoner/surfer persona that he had in the old toon that has led to him being the moron of the group. I agree on all of your points Sage. I think Mikey has a lot more intellect than he lets on, and I do think that ties in to the goofball nature of him. I think the live action movie is the best overall persona of Mikey. He was a bit goofy but still was quite smart. CGI and FF have probably been the worse versions of Mikey.

[Monte Williams]

I think it was also that stoner/surfer persona that he had in the old toon that has led to him being the moron of the group.


That's exactly my thought; he's much more a stoner than an idiot.

That said, I am not adequately familiar with the various universes to really say which presented him as the smartest. I know the old 'toon made him way too Spicoli for me; accordingly, he was my least favorite Turtle, and might still be...

[thebrownranger]

vol. 3 Mikey seemed to be more mature since he was taking care of shadow and spent his time being a writer.

[Jelly Bean]

you know I really haven't seen much of the 80's cartoon but I never got a "stoner" vibe off of him. Or really that he was much of a "surfer" persona, expect for a few "surfer" slang thrown aorund here and there he seemed like a chilled out sort or guy.

I actually voted for the 80's cartoon Mike, even though I've only seen two seasons of it. From what I've seen this version of him seems like he has more awareness of whats going on and a better grasp on things. Mikey in the current toon although I think is smarter than he's given credit for, seems much more scatter brained and...I don't know, clueless at times. :ohwell:

[Mr. Stay Puft]

Mikey in the current toon although I think is smarter than he's given credit for, seems much more scatter brained and...I don't know, clueless at times. :ohwell:

That's because he's Mikey for the ADD generation.

[Guitar_Raph]

I voted for "Other" because of Next Mutation.

Thought it was cool that Mikey drove around on his jeep, doing his pirate radio show "The Sewer Hour".

[TheUltimateShredhead]

Mikey may not be a brainiac, but his not directly stupid eather.

[Jelly Bean]

CGI Mikey seems to be regared as the least intelligent version of Michaelangelo so far due to his over all flightiness.

CGI and FF have probably been the worse versions of Mikey.

You know I really don't get why CGI Mikey is considered so stupid. Based on how little his screen time was and what little speaking scenes he actually had I don't think there was enough time given to show how smart or dumb he was. Other than getting beat up by bunch of kids and falling down a few times, I don't think he did or said anything that outrageously stupid. :ohwell: In alot of ways I thought he was more mild than the cartoon version of him on 4KIDS.

That's because he's Mikey for the ADD generation.

having ADD doesn't mean you are scatter brained or dumb, and it's to bad that tv execs think not being able to concentrate equals stupidity.

vol. 3 Mikey seemed to be more mature since he was taking care of shadow and spent his time being a writer.

Vol. three? What version are you talking about?

[thebrownranger]

Vol. three? What version are you talking about?

Umm Image.

[Revan]

Vol. three? What version are you talking about?
volume three refers to the third volume of the comics.

volumes 1,2, and 4 were mirage

vol 3 was done by image comics and is not cosidered canon

[turkishproverb]

vol. 3 Mikey seemed to be more mature since he was taking care of shadow and spent his time being a writer.
He got a book published. And Oprah Liked it.

[Buslady]

i like Mirage Mike best. He was pretty mature most the time in Archies if I recall correctly

I'm really tired of seeing them portray him as a moron and a wuss. he can be funny and be smart at the same time. in FF he really regressed like they all did

[Warhorse]

I liked the live version Mikey the best. He jus happened to have more of a smarter, appealing way about him in the live action movies than any other incarnation.

[Jelly Bean]

I don't get why Mikey is the "stupid" turtle at all. Why does he have to be the idiot any way? Is it to make him funny or is it because he is the the most light hearted of the group? Does liking comics and video games and being hyper automatically make you a moron?

[Roseangelo]

Well, I've been putting off posting in here for a bit, mostly because I'm torn about how to answer it. For me it's hard to classify each Mike in the different universes as completely different characters. Oh sure, there are some variations, as happens with all the Turtles, but in general for me it's just one big Mike (really, this can probably be applied to all of the Turtles).

I'll attempt to make sense of this...

I discovered the TMNT through the original toon and it's from there that Michaelangelo became my favorite character. Why? I think I liked him because he was light-hearted and funny. I never saw him as stupid (or stoned, as I've been seeing people say around here lately). Quite the opposite; I loved the times when he had the idea that saved the day. I don't think it was that rare, although it wasn't the specific role he was meant to play regularly.

Next for me was the first movie, which came out about six months after I started watching the cartoon. The obviously different feel of the movie when compared to the cartoon was too much for a lot of people to handle (especially movie critics), but that honestly never bothered me. What I saw in the movie was more depth to the same character and a new way to understand how Mike works. Ordering pizza while Splinter's giving them a lesson, changing the subject when Don asks him what he thought about what it'd be like not having Splinter, the rage we see briefly displayed in the barn, etc. And all of that just added to the reasons why he would remain my favorite character.

And then the comic books eventually fed into that (and for simplicity at this time, I'm lumping all of that together).

While all of the different genre Mikes were slightly different from each other, none of them contradicted themselves. UNTIL it started working its way into the 4Kids series that Mike was actually stupid AND, worst of all, an incompetent fighter. For all the jokes that the other Turtles might make towards him - and let's face it, he asks for it - I don't think any of them would ever, ever, in honest truth, consider Mike to be unintelligent and especially a less than competent fighter.

Now, with all of that said, I think Vol. 1-3 of the Mirage(Image) comic book feature the best exploration of Mike's character. Although the Archie series did a pretty darn good job, too. And the live action Mike was really fun. And CGI Mike was really cute...

See, this is why I was avoiding this topic; I can't pick just one!

[VaughnMichael]

I think people get the asumption that Mikey was a stoner because he would say things like "dude I've got a serious case of the major munchies!":lol:
He was talking about how hungry he is allot of the time so I think people just got it from that.
Much in the same way people think about Shaggy and Scooby who eat all the time yet aren't super fat.

Btw I went with the Image comics version because I think he had the most going for him in that version even if it was short lived but next after that I'd have to go with Mirage.
I've never been much of a Michaelangelo fan mostly because of the cartoon, but once I got into the comics more I didn't mind him so much.
I think my least fave version of him though is the 2k3-Now version he's just such a goof off and is just so annoying.

[Roseangelo]

Btw I went with the Image comics version because I think he had the most going for him in that version even if it was short lived but next after that I'd have to go with Mirage.

Another reason I can't bring myself to pick an answer... Image Mike is very much a continuation of Mirage (Vol. 1-2) Mike, so picking it (for me) would be like ignoring how he got to be the character he is in Vol. 3. But Vol. 3 definitely did some good things for Mike.

[Sage Ninja]

I voted for old toon Mike because to me in that version he wasn't dumb for all the reasons I've already mentioned, but just...unpretencious and--nice. I think alot of people tend to attribute smarts and intellect with being sly and cunning and even deceitful, which Michaelangelo wasn't. Michaelangelo is just a nice person and nice people tend to get taken advantge of because they appear weak or easy to targets. No one really messes with mean or sarcastic people because you naturally think they are to smart to go along with anything. But nice genuane people tend to get used as a result of their good natured dispostions. How many times did Michaelangelo in the old toon have to reluctantly have to do something embarrassing to distract an enemy? Why not the other turtles? Because he was the most mild of the turtles he was forced to do the dirty work and look the foolish. Unless you are a calculating dishonest bastard that can manipulate people and pull the wool over their eyes you aren't considered very smart, especially if you are also have a positive out look and amiable disposition. I don't why this is but individuals who are sunny and genuane personas, people tend to think theat you are eighther simple because you don't realize all the bad stuff around you, or you are just stupid. And that why I think Michaelangelo in the classic toon came off as dumb character in the old toon when he wasn't.

Mikey in the new toon isn't dumb so much as he is foolish. He does things that he should know better about and that me makes him appear like an idiot. When you do something that any one could see would get you trouble you look like an idiot when you do it. Now any one can do something they should no better about but this is a regualr habit of him. Alot of Mikey's antics are things that he should not do but does any way, so every one rolls their eyes at him and thinks he is a moron. Perfect examples are when he was playing with the buttons on some air craft even after Don tells him to "leave the shiny buttons alone Mikey" and suddenly the compartment he is in detaches and he falls away screaming. Thing like that make you people go :sweatdro:... dumbass. So it's not really that Mikey is actaully stupid but he does stupid things eighther delberately or accidently because he doesn't think things through. Mikey also tends to says thing out of context and nothing makes you look like a idiot more than when people are having a serious conversation during a tense moment and you make some radom off the wall comment. Another thing and I think this is the biggest thing that makes Mikey look like a moron is he is an attention whore.

[Jelly Bean]

While all of the different genre Mikes were slightly different from each other, none of them contradicted themselves. UNTIL it started working its way into the 4Kids series that Mike was actually stupid AND, worst of all, an incompetent fighter. For all the jokes that the other Turtles might make towards him - and let's face it, he asks for it - I don't think any of them would ever, ever, in honest truth, consider Mike to be unintelligent and especially a less than competent fighter.

um, maybe I'm not understanding you very well but it seems you kind of contradicted your self here. The first thing you said was that worst thing about Mikey in the current series he is stupid and an incompentent fighter, then you say that no one would consider him unintelligent and is a good fighter. :-?

For all of his idiotic antics Mikey is actually rather smart, it just doesn't come up very often, and when it does it's like his brothers make a big deal that he actually had an idea. It's like when ever Mikey has something smart to say every one is shocked like hell just froze over or pigs just learned to fly. It's almost like Mikey isn't allowed to be smart, and I've noticed this in other versions as well like the new movie. I think this is why I voted for 80's toon Mikey because I felt that there wasn't a standard that he had to be the dumb one. In the the current toon it seems like there are standards that the good ideas have to come from Leo or Don, the badass stuff has to come from Raph and the wacky dumb stuff has to come from Mikey.

I don't really get this in the 80's toon, in an episode where a robot goes crazy because it's control by a video game Mikey figures this out and hooks up his game to it to take control of it. I was shocked, because I wouldn't think Mikey would be the one to pull something off like that, because I would think it be Don. I could never picture mikey in the current toon or movie written to do something like that.

[Roseangelo]

um, maybe I'm not understanding you very well but it seems you kind of contradicted your self here. The first thing you said was that worst thing about Mikey in the current series he is stupid and an incompentent fighter, then you say that no one would consider him unintelligent and is a good fighter. :-?

No, not contradicting, but trying to reflect how poorly Mike has been written lately. Read what I wrote again... it makes sense.

[Spitfire]

Easily Image, he writes books and he has a lot more character depth. There's more to him then stupid one liners and a surfer attitude.

[Jelly Bean]

I voted for old toon Mike because to me in that version he wasn't dumb for all the reasons I've already mentioned, but just...unpretencious and--nice. I think alot of people tend to attribute smarts and intellect with being sly and cunning and even deceitful, which Michaelangelo wasn't. Michaelangelo is just a nice person and nice people tend to get taken advantge of because they appear weak or easy to targets. No one really messes with mean or sarcastic people because you naturally think they are to smart to go along with anything. But nice genuane people tend to get used as a result of their good natured dispostions. How many times did Michaelangelo in the old toon have to reluctantly have to do something embarrassing to distract an enemy? Why not the other turtles? Because he was the most mild of the turtles he was forced to do the dirty work and look the foolish. Unless you are a calculating dishonest bastard that can manipulate people and pull the wool over their eyes you aren't considered very smart, especially if you are also have a positive out look and amiable disposition. I don't why this is but individuals who are sunny and genuane personas, people tend to think theat you are eighther simple because you don't realize all the bad stuff around you, or you are just stupid. And that why I think Michaelangelo in the classic toon came off as dumb character in the old toon when he wasn't.

I just read what you wrote here and I think maybe you are being a teensy bit biased. From what I saw in season six Mikey showed that he could do dumb things that doesn't involve being to much of a nice guy that gets taken advantage of. Like in one episode called Nightmare...something :roll: he gets himself in trouble by messing with a machine that Donatello directly forbids anyone from useing and gets himself and Leo trapped and releases this wacky ghost. I would say that was pretty dumb. :|

I'm really tired of seeing them portray him as a moron and a wuss. he can be funny and be smart at the same time. in FF he really regressed like they all did

I don't get why people keep saying this Mikey acted no diffrent in FF than how he always does. Seriously peaple give me one instance where Mikey acted more stupid or immature in Fast Foward than how he was in seasons 1-5?

[VaughnMichael]

I just read what you wrote here and I think maybe you are being a teensy bit biased. From what I saw in season six Mikey showed that he could do dumb things that doesn't involve being to much of a nice guy that gets taken advantage of. Like in one episode called Nightmare...something :roll: he gets himself in trouble by messing with a machine that Donatello directly forbids anyone from useing and gets himself and Leo trapped and releases this wacky ghost. I would say that was pretty dumb. :|



I don't get why people keep saying this Mikey acted no diffrent in FF than how he always does. Seriously peaple give me one instance where Mikey acted more stupid or immature in Fast Foward than how he was in seasons 1-5?
I agree with you about old toon Mike, I think that's why I'm not a fan of him since I got to know that version first growing up.
He was very selfish allot of the time, didn't listen to the other turtle or splinter, would cop a serious attitude if he didnt get his way and lets not forget the time he went all emo when they made him think they forgot his birthday lol
&
I'm sure people could give you quite a few.
How about when he keeps taunting Raph when he wins the battle nexus for instance?
I'm sure there's more but it's 5am here and I don't feel like thinking about anymore times when a character I really don't care for acts like an idiot.:lol:

[Coola Yagami]

I don't really get this in the 80's toon, in an episode where a robot goes crazy because it's control by a video game Mikey figures this out and hooks up his game to it to take control of it. I was shocked, because I wouldn't think Mikey would be the one to pull something off like that, because I would think it be Don. I could never picture mikey in the current toon or movie written to do something like that.

Well dude... Bebop and Rocksteady used a chip from the same videogame Mikey was playing alot with in the same episode on that robot. Krang's robot kept talking like the game's computer. Even during the episode one of the turtles was like 'Michealangelo, would you turn off that damn videogame!' when they heard Krang's robot talking. Then Mikey realized it and hooked up his game to the android. I don't see it so OOC for Mikey to think this up, and he would have done it even sooner in the 2K3 version since he's a bigger game fan there, while in the old show he just so happened to become this big videogame fan just in that episode.

[Sage Ninja]

you are right Jelly Bean that Michaelangelo in the old toon does do dumb things occassionally with out some one taking advantage of him. When I wrote that I just ment that in the old toon Michaelangelo was constantly getting picked on over little things and basically being told he was dumber than he actually was at times in the series. When I don't think he really deserved it since he did try and most of his "stupid" moments where just mistakes that any one could have. But then I kind of felt that the times where Michaelangelo acted randomly dumb it seemed a bit forced like it was just a plot device to let the Shredder get away. I think Michaelangelo in the old toon was more flighty than down right stupid, and made mistakes like of the turtles.

He was very selfish allot of the time, didn't listen to the other turtle or splinter, would cop a serious attitude if he didnt get his way

He was no more selfish and had bouts of rebellion any more than the other turtles. And the attitude thing, Michaelangelo in the old toon seems to be one of the more milder version when it comes to coping an attitude. ;) :lol:

[Jelly Bean]

Well dude... Bebop and Rocksteady used a chip from the same videogame Mikey was playing alot with in the same episode on that robot. Krang's robot kept talking like the game's computer. Even during the episode one of the turtles was like 'Michealangelo, would you turn off that damn videogame!' when they heard Krang's robot talking. Then Mikey realized it and hooked up his game to the android. I don't see it so OOC for Mikey to think this up, and he would have done it even sooner in the 2K3 version since he's a bigger game fan there, while in the old show he just so happened to become this big videogame fan just in that episode.

meh, I guess we will have to agree to disagree here, in the same situation as this, I don't see Mikey in the current toon catching on quicker, just based on how his character generally acts in situations like this. Mikey from the current toon might be more of video games fanatic but I don't normally see him display the kind of awareness or inciative that I've seen 80's toon Mikey show so far.

He was very selfish allot of the time, didn't listen to the other turtle or splinter, would cop a serious attitude if he didnt get his way and lets not forget the time he went all emo when they made him think they forgot his birthday lol

lol, bitter much? ;) be careful, if Mikey fans are as rabid as Raphael fans you might be torn apart for saying stuff like that. LOL I haven't seen much of evidence of this yet in his character but is he as self centered and childish as Mikey in the current can be?

[Sage Ninja]

meh, I guess we will have to agree to disagree here, in the same situation as this, I don't see Mikey in the current toon catching on quicker, just based on how his character generally acts in situations like this. Mikey from the current toon might be more of video games fanatic but I don't normally see him display the kind of awareness or inciative that I've seen 80's toon Mikey show so far.

there was that time in Reality Check where Mikey figured out a way to adjust the bomb to just take out the building instead of the city with out any of the turtles having to sacrafice them selves to disarm it. So even though Mikey doesn't show very it often in 2k3 he does have moments of ingenuity.


lol, bitter much? ;) be careful, if Mikey fans are as rabid as Raphael fans you might be torn apart for saying stuff like that. LOL I haven't seen much of evidence of this yet in his character but is he as self centered and childish as Mikey in the current can be?

Michaelangelo fans are bit more docile than Raphael fans ;) That and some the negative things said about our favorite turtle is sadly true sometimes so we can't really get to indignant when his flaws are pointed out. :roll: But as to whether Michaelangelo in the OT is as self centered and childish as 2k3 Mikey I would say comparatively no, I feel OT Mike isn't portrayed as the younger brother like Mikey is in the 2k3 series is. Plus when the show get into Red Sky Michaelangelo as well as the other turtles act more mature and smart, so Mike's potrayal in the classic toon evolves, where is Mikey in the 2k3 series de-evolves when it his FF.

[Jelly Bean]

Michaelangelo fans are bit more docile than Raphael fans ;) That and some the negative things said about our favorite turtle is sadly true sometimes so we can't really get to indignant when his flaws are pointed out.

and yet you guys are the ones that are forever bitching about him and crusifying him for his flaws:roll: As fans you guys should look at his posetive traits and acomplishments not dwell on his negative ones.

there was that time in Reality Check where Mikey figured out a way to adjust the bomb to just take out the building instead of the city with out any of the turtles having to sacrafice them selves to disarm it. So even though Mikey doesn't show very it often in 2k3 he does have moments of ingenuity.

I forgot about this that is true.

But as to whether Michaelangelo in the OT is as self centered and childish as 2k3 Mikey I would say comparatively no, I feel OT Mike isn't portrayed as the younger brother like Mikey is in the 2k3 series is. Plus when the show get into Red Sky Michaelangelo as well as the other turtles act more mature and smart, so Mike's potrayal in the classic toon evolves, where is Mikey in the 2k3 series de-evolves when it his FF.

Ok what exactly is Red Sky? I've heard this phrase before and I bit confused on what it referes too. Is it a seperate series from the 80's toon or a continuation?

[Coola Yagami]

Red Sky is when the series changes the opening theme, Shredder and Krang are replaced by Lord Dregg, and the turtles mutate into hulk-wannabes.


Everyone seems to make a big deal about how 'dark' and 'serious' the show gets there, but bleh. I've seen a few eps, and the only difference I see from the rest of the show is how the episodes feel more like part of an on-going saga and not so episodic... but the turtles are still cracking jokes and one-liners, there's barely any actual non-slapstick fighting... and they're still fighting silly looking cartoony monsters and things. Oh.. and in the eps regarding their transformations, suddenly the turtles are unable to do anything unless they transform.

[Jelly Bean]

you know now that I've seen more of the 80's toon I believe I've gotten a better feel for the turtles characters, and I have to wonder why exactly did every one one including the turtles think Mikey was dumb? :-? From what I've seen he seems pretty capable and intelligent enough over-all and he doesn't screw up all that much but I'm noticing that the other turtles tend to make little quips about him not being too smart in the 80's toon, and he doesn't seem (to me any way) to really do anything that terriably dumb. From what I've seen so far 80's Mike seems to deserve being called stpid even less than CGI and NT Mikey. :-?

[Drtooth]

you know now that I've seen more of the 80's toon I believe I've gotten a better feel for the turtles characters, and I have to wonder why exactly did every one one including the turtles think Mikey was dumb? :-? From what I've seen he seems pretty capable and intelligent enough over-all and he doesn't screw up all that much but I'm noticing that the other turtles tend to make little quips about him not being too smart in the 80's toon, and he doesn't seem (to me any way) to really do anything that terriably dumb. From what I've seen so far 80's Mike seems to deserve being called stpid even less than CGI and NT Mikey. :-?


Mainly because the "goofy one" is usually saddled as the dumber one. I think the episodes by Jeff Scott made him a might stupid. Like the "This is like looking for a noodle in a haystack" line.

All and all, it depends on the episode. Sometimes he appears dumber than others. I can't remember anything off the top of my head, though. But occassionally he's seen as the most gluttonous, food loving one.

As for the 2k3 Mikey... I compare him to Dale of Rescue Rangers. he isn't so much dumb, as not the smartest in the group, and he has an over abundant hero worshipping love of comics and movies. Of course, in FF, this was what the character was defined as, leading to "Graduation Day" and his Darkwing Duck-esque apperance in the "Clash of the Turtle Titan" episode.

So, I could never so much call him dumb in any aspect as much as the least mature. Though, I'm sure multiple times in the old series he was the first to say "In English please?" when Donatello explains something technical. Usually him or Raph.

[Kendamu]

My feeling a lot of the time is that when Mikey is acting "dumb" he's doing just that: acting. His style of humor is very similar to my own. I tend to poke fun at myself or act dumb to make people laugh. Its kinda subtle, but the fact that I'm joking is just obvious enough that people don't legitimately think that I'm stupid.

[Darth Shredder]

It certainly isn't the 2k3 Mikey.

I swear, in that series, it's one stupid, unneeded joke/crack after another from Mikey. It's so excessive that it becomes annoying to the viewer. They tried making it a more serious, adult-oriented animated series that kids could still enjoy, but they incorporated too much Mikey stupidity so the series comes off as weird and unbalanced. Mikey from 2k3 is WAY cornier than anything I ever watched in the OT, so I don't know where a lot of people get off with the complaints (not in this thread, I'm talking about in general where some claim the OT was a total cheese show).

[NameGoesHere1066]

you know if I where to be honest with my self, and be unbiased, no version of Michaelangelo is actually "dumb"; some are more stupidly portrayed than others but it would be untrue to say that him on his own is merits is stupid. We can all say what we want about the little twerp but the very fact that he is a ninja and effective one (in varying degrees) means he isn't a total retard and has enough smarts that, honestly, the average joe probably doesn't have to survive as a ninja.

I don't think that the comic versions of Michaelangelo should even be up there since those versions of him are in a completely diffrent catergory than the cartoon versions of him and are naturally going to appear more intelligent than their bastardized cartoon versions. Big diffrence? the comics take him seriously as a character and the cartoon/movie medias doesn't.

since I don't think the comic mediums should be up there competeing against the toon versions, I'm going to just concentrate on the media versions. So from smartest to dumbest, to me it goes:

Orginal toon Michaelangelo

CGI Movie Michaelangelo

2k3 series Michaelangelo

I swear, in that series, it's one stupid, unneeded joke/crack after another from Mikey. It's so excessive that it becomes annoying to the viewer. They tried making it a more serious, adult-oriented animated series that kids could still enjoy, but they incorporated too much Mikey stupidity so the series comes off as weird and unbalanced. Mikey from 2k3 is WAY cornier than anything I ever watched in the OT, so I don't know where a lot of people get off with the complaints (not in this thread, I'm talking about in general where some claim the OT was a total cheese show).

and this is exactly why 2k3 is at the bottom and OT is at the top. 2k3 Mikey's antics and demeaner makes him come across more stupid than CGI Mikey's Haley's comet remark or his klutz fests, or OT Mike's surfer lingo does.

[NameGoesHere1066]

aw, sh*t I forgot about L.A movie Mike :evil: He was smart and creative too and a decent portrayal of comic accurate Mike. I don't think anything can top his idea of the "Anceint Prefight donut" LMAO :lol:. The Live action Mike'a are in a catergory all by them selves.

[Darth Shredder]

Hmm. I see live-action Mikey's personality from the first movie as being RIGHT FROM the OT. Which is a good thing.

[Evenstar227]

I voted for Mirage Mikey. Recently reread the last ish of the City at War arc, where Leo, Raph, & Mikey are reunited with April & Casey on the farm. He's holding Shadow and says she's a "miss of unimpeachable good taste". That's a pretty big word. :tgrin:

[Sage Ninja]

you know now that I've seen more of the 80's toon I believe I've gotten a better feel for the turtles characters, and I have to wonder why exactly did every one one including the turtles think Mikey was dumb? :-? From what I've seen he seems pretty capable and intelligent enough over-all and he doesn't screw up all that much but I'm noticing that the other turtles tend to make little quips about him not being too smart in the 80's toon, and he doesn't seem (to me any way) to really do anything that terriably dumb. From what I've seen so far 80's Mike seems to deserve being called stpid even less than CGI and NT Mikey. :-?

yeah, I don't think so eighther, Mike in the OT may have had his moments of being a flake but he never screwed up or made mistakes in judgement any more so than the other turtles individually. Some times it seemed like Michaelangelo coulnd't make a mistake with out being called a idiot but the others could. I think the turtles had a slight tendacy to look down on him because his demeaner and attitude was very straight forward and maybe a mite too laid back. Giving him the appearance of eigther over looking crucial things, or taking it to simplely. And sometimes the simple way is the best way.

Donatello: we need to get to the other side of this wall some how, quick Michaelangelo climb up here with me and my turtle catapault will fling us to the other side. I've calculated the speed and wind resistence and our weight so the arc of the fling will propel us perfectly over the wall in a safe manner.

Michaelangelo: uh, dude, why don't we just climb over and jump down?

[Kendamu]

Mikey's not stupid. He's just lighthearted, likes to crack jokes, and takes his "younger brother" status for granted.

[Jelly Bean]

Mikey's not stupid. He's just lighthearted, likes to crack jokes, and takes his "younger brother" status for granted.

is Mikey really the youngest in the 80's toon? He really doesn't seem like he is the youngest of the turtles in that series from what I've seen. :ohwell: He doesn't really have alot of "youngest memeber of the group" qualites to him from what I've seen of him. :|

And I asked why the turtles think Mikey is dumb because they seem to make alot of remarks about him being stupid when he is not even doing anything stupid. One that stands out in my mind was in the SWORD OF YUKANA episode, where Splinter is explaining the swords ability to change and Mikey stops him asking how some thing change but stay the same, and Don and Raph say some along the lines of "forget it Mikey it's to deep for you" and "a kiddy pool is to deep for him". WTF? :-? Exactly how was Mikey asking that, that stupid? From the episodes I've seen I'm noticeing the turtles, ushaully Raph or Don, will make comment on him being dumb when he isn't doing anything stupid? :ohwell:

Mikey from 2k3 is WAY cornier than anything I ever watched in the OT, so I don't know where a lot of people get off with the complaints (not in this thread, I'm talking about in general where some claim the OT was a total cheese show).

Are you talking about the all of the OT show compared to 2k3 Mikey or just OT Mikey and 2k3 Mikey?

Donatello: we need to get to the other side of this wall some how, quick Michaelangelo climb up here with me and my turtle catapault will fling us to the other side. I've calculated the speed and wind resistence and our weight so the arc of the fling will propel us perfectly over the wall in a safe manner.

Michaelangelo: uh, dude, why don't we just climb over and jump down?

what episode is this from?

[Darth Shredder]

is Mikey really the youngest in the 80's toon? He really doesn't seem like he is the youngest of the turtles in that series from what I've seen. :ohwell: He doesn't really have alot of "youngest memeber of the group" qualites to him from what I've seen of him. :|

And I asked why the turtles think Mikey is dumb because they seem to make alot of remarks about him being stupid when he is not even doing anything stupid. One that stands out in my mind was in the SWORD OF YUKANA episode, where Splinter is explaining the swords ability to change and Mikey stops him asking how some thing change but stay the same, and Don and Raph say some along the lines of "forget it Mikey it's to deep for you" and "a kiddy pool is to deep for him". WTF? :-? Exactly how was Mikey asking that, that stupid? From the episodes I've seen I'm noticeing the turtles, ushaully Raph or Don, will make comment on him being dumb when he isn't doing anything stupid? :ohwell:

A group of four brothers is bound to have a member that is singled out for good-hearted teasing. It's a fact of life. I have three brothers myself, all of them younger than me, and the one that we are playful around the most is actually (admittedly) the most accomplished: he scores high grades in school, attends a karate dojo once a week, and has a strong sense of humor. We exchange humorous cheap shots all the time, but remain dedicated and loyal family.

There's also the fact that Mikey's plans backfire in the OT one time too many. In "Usagi Yojimbo", he plans to calm the dragon from wreaking havoc on New York by feeding it grain. What happens? It instead grows in size, meaning it's more dangerous.

Mikey is very obviously a competent ninja. He's also the most playful of the Turtles, and his brothers pick up on that, and take advantage of certain situations to rub it in. It may appear "offensive" on the surface, but it's simply another way of bonding.

[odupianist]

I think Mike is quite smart in all of his incarnations. Mirage is obviously the smartest, but like someone said before, they're all different creations of Mike. CGI Mike seems the dumbest to me BUT we didnt get to see him develop or have enough opportunity to prove us wrong.

[Sage Ninja]

There's also the fact that Mikey's plans backfire in the OT one time too many. In "Usagi Yojimbo", he plans to calm the dragon from wreaking havoc on New York by feeding it grain. What happens? It instead grows in size, meaning it's more dangerous.

funny, wasn't the idea to feed grain to the dragon Leonardo's idea? Michaelangelo only wondered that maybe the dragon was hungry, Leonardo was the one who decided to cut open the grain tower and feed it to the dragon. But then Raphael made a sarcastic remark that Michaelangelo screwed every thing up when it wasn't even his idea to begin with. :roll:

I don't recall to many times where OT Mike's ideas or plans back fired on him. In season two's episode mean machines he thought of useing a box of explosives to destroy a bunch of rampaging construction equipment by luring one of them to smash it, by sitting on the box knowing it would go for him; to name one.

The thing is all the turtles in the OT had their moments of screwing up or doing something stupid. Even Donatello, and he was the smartest turtle of the bunch in the OT and every so often he would be portrayed as being a flake. The only thing about OT Michaelangelo is that he would be treated the harshest for having a bad idea or if a plan didn't go right. More often than not we are told that Michaelangelo is dumb more often than he is, ushaully by Raphal, who--incidently, never had much input on ideas or plans, just made made fun of anyone who did, if their idea went wrong. ;)

Hmm. I see live-action Mikey's personality from the first movie as being RIGHT FROM the OT. Which is a good thing.

I do too. I don't know why so many people say he better or smarter than rest since he still had many aspects about him that was taken right from OT's portrayal of Mike. :ohwell:

[Darth Shredder]

funny, wasn't the idea to feed grain to the dragon Leonardo's idea? Michaelangelo only wondered that maybe the dragon was hungry, Leonardo was the one who decided to cut open the grain tower and feed it to the dragon. But then Raphael made a sarcastic remark that Michaelangelo screwed every thing up when it wasn't even his idea to begin with. :roll:

From watching, it's actually unclear who thought of it.

They all noticed the grain elevator, thought they could exploit it to their benefit in some way, but Mikey seemed to lead the way in ripping the grain elevator open to dump a big pile of grain in front of their pursuer.

Plus, Mikey owned up to it being his idea.

The thing is all the turtles in the OT had their moments of screwing up or doing something stupid.

That's true.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

This thread caught my attention and forgive me that as a newbie I will be giving a piece of my mind. Here goes.

I never considered good ol' Mikey as a dumb teen turtle. He is funny and hyper most of the time, but definitely not stupid even in the new toon. Why is it that people associate people with a sense of humor as being a moron? In reality, comedians need to be street-wise or even intelligent to think of a joke or to pull out the joke (not that Mikey does the deed in purpose to be funny, Kevin and Peter do, but I'm just making a point). Mikey lacks the 24/7 seriousness of Leo, the bouts between anger and more anger of Raph, plus the geekiness of Don, but that doesn't make Mikey dumb. He just likes to look at things in a simpler manner. Let me give you an example:

From the 4th Movie (CGI)

Mikey: (after Don gave a very thorough and complex scientific explanation of how bad the situation was) So, it's like Haley's comet-- only monsters come out?
Don: Well, I guess you're right, Mikey.
*My Comment: What's wrong with being simpling complicated things out? Is being simple synonymous to being an airhead?


Sometimes, Mikey gets into comic scenes like:

In the 2nd Movie

Don: You think anybody could find a place down hear?
Mikey: But, noooooooo.
Don: You think an idiot could find a place down hear
Mickey: But (fall down a hole) nooooooooooooooooo!
*My Comment: Yah. So, the scene was created to make Mikey appear funny for comic relief. But, hey, admit that you have a couple of accidents every now and then.


Here's one more:

Again, from the 4th Movie (CGI)

Mikey: Leo! Is that really you? I'm dreaming, aren't I? [Gives him a big hug.]
Leo: No, Mikey. You're not dreaming.
Michelangelo: Good. I had nightmares about birthday parties.
*My Comment: Might be funny but if you will dig deeper, it clearly shows that Mikey has somewhat developed a trauma with his job considering that he liked it a first. We should give Mikey a break that even if he is dubbed as the "youngest" (not literally in age but in spirit), he had the will to help his "older" brother put food on the table putting aside his well-being (imagine yourself being whacked by solid wood poles a hundred times a week by people who don't get reprimanded by it) for a few bucks. No offense to Raph fans, but I believe that if you can't take care of your own household first, how can you take care of others' households? (My family is starving, but it's OK 'coz I knocked off some street gang members down the alley).


From the new toon:
Mikey: I don't know what's scarier: the fact that that worked, or that Don carries around a pigeon puppet.
My Comment: I was laughing real loud at this. It's freaking funny, really. Plus, Mikey thought of that when the other two Turtles didn't.


Another example:

In the Mirage comics, Mikey did became an accomplished writer. I don't think his work will make it into his bestseller list if he was a moron.


Last one:

From the 1st Movie

Mikey: (while watching on TV "The Tortoise and the Hare"): Go! Ah your letting him go right by ya. Ahh! Ninja kick the damn rabbit!
*My comment: I found this a funny line. I realize that most of the funny lines come from Mikey (as if we don't all don't realize it here). What I'm trying to say I guess is that, Peter and Kevin designed Mikey to be a comic relief so it's given that he does and say things that are funny and that needs a lot of thinking. Being funny doesn't mean you are dumb.


Enough said. Logging out now. I'm sorry if I offended someone, specially Raph fans.

:roll:

[Sage Ninja]

um, I'm confused. Are you offended by the content of this thread? Because based on the nature of your responces, you are coming across rather needlessly defencesive. The nature of this thread is for you to give reasons of why you think which version of Michaelangelo is smart and vote, not bash who is stupid. However I will say that when it comes to Michaelangelo sometines writers confuse funny with making fun of. I'm of the opinion that for a character to be "funny" he doesn't have to be the object of humilation and physical humour (slap stick) to humourous. Stand up comedians make jokes and witty obsevations at life and things around them or even them selves, but never by acting like a a walking joke to be laughed at not with. Which is something they have done to often to poor Mike in most mediums, making him appear stupid.
Mikey dumb. He just likes to look at things in a simpler manner

I agree and I adressed this already. I think you missed my post about OT Mike's simplier look on things. I even gave an example. Here is what I wrote:

I think the turtles had a slight tendacy to look down on him because his demeaner and attitude was very straight forward and maybe a mite too laid back. Giving him the appearance of eigther over looking crucial things, or taking it to simplely. And sometimes the simple way is the best way.

Donatello: we need to get to the other side of this wall some how, quick Michaelangelo climb up here with me and my turtle catapault will fling us to the other side. I've calculated the speed and wind resistence and our weight so the arc of the fling will propel us perfectly over the wall in a safe manner.

Michaelangelo: uh, dude, why don't we just climb over and jump down?

[cup-mikey-gertha]

um, I'm confused. Are you offended by the content of this thread? Because based on the nature of your responces, you are coming across rather needlessly defencesive. The nature of this thread is for you to give reasons of why you think which version of Michaelangelo is smart and vote, not bash who is stupid.

Oh, my apologies if you misunderstood me, Sage-san. I'm not offended on the content of this thread. I'm just exhausted of the people who thinks Michaelangelo is stupid (they may not be in this thread, but there are, alright). Even with your title

Michaelangelo smart?

It has a (?) implying that it is questionable for some people that he is smart (of course not you). Plus, my last line was

Enough said. Logging out now. I'm sorry if I offended someone, specially Raph fans.

meaning that I am not the one who is offended, rather, I'm just worried if I offended someone specially Raph fans in my statement

No offense to Raph fans, but I believe that if you can't take care of your own household first, how can you take care of others' households? (My family is starving, but it's OK 'coz I knocked off some street gang members down the alley).

Oh, and regarding

I think you missed my post about OT Mike's simplier look on things. I even gave an example.

No, I didn't miss your post. I love the quote you gave regarding the siblings. Tell you the truth, this is one of the threads that made me sign up as a member in this forum in the first place. I just wanted to share my thoughts regarding the issue. Regarding the poll, I voted for Mirage.

:)

[Jelly Bean]

Mikey: Leo! Is that really you? I'm dreaming, aren't I? [Gives him a big hug.]
Leo: No, Mikey. You're not dreaming.
Michelangelo: Good. I had nightmares about birthday parties.
*My Comment: Might be funny but if you will dig deeper, it clearly shows that Mikey has somewhat developed a trauma with his job considering that he liked it a first. We should give Mikey a break that even if he is dubbed as the "youngest" (not literally in age but in spirit), he had the will to help his "older" brother put food on the table putting aside his well-being (imagine yourself being whacked by solid wood poles a hundred times a week by people who don't get reprimanded by it) for a few bucks. No offense to Raph fans, but I believe that if you can't take care of your own household first, how can you take care of others' households? (My family is starving, but it's OK 'coz I knocked off some street gang members down the alley).

heh, good point right here about CGI Mikey, he and Don are both sacrificing their ninja life style for Splinter's sake and doing things that aggravate them and hate, but they do it to keep their family afloat. I guess that shows alot of maturity. Although I think your example about Raph is pretty off, the turtles where never ever close to starving, and if they where Raph would make them his priority instead of kicking the crap out of street thugs.

And yeah, Mikey's Haley's Comit, remark might have made him look insightful for all of two and a half seconds, but that is quickly taken away from him by making him fall on his head like moron. In fact the whole way that scene was set up was to point out how idiotic he was, not smart.

I do agree with your idea that being happy or having a sence of humour doesn't make you dumb. But You really can't say that Mikey doesn't do things that make him look dumb. In the movie and 4KIDs cartoon Mikey kind of deserves getting called an idiot because he seems to act foolish just for the sake of it. 80's toon Mikey, from what I've seen, doesn't seem to deserve it as much as the others. Because even though he goofs around and messes up sometimes, he does seem like he is actively trying to think things through or come up with ideas and carry them out to help the team, instead of just acting silly, and he still gets slamed by the other turtles. :o

[cup-mikey-gertha]

And yeah, Mikey's Haley's Comet, remark might have made him look insightful for all of two and a half seconds, but that is quickly taken away from him by making him fall on his head like moron. In fact the whole way that scene was set up was to point out how idiotic he was, not smart.

Yup, Jelly-san, that falling down scene looked (gulp, I admit) idiotic. Sigh. I don't get it. Michaelangelo had a moment of glory skating in the maze-like sewers as if he was an Xtreme Sports Champion of the Decade at the first half of the movie, then he falls down in a much simpler routine? I wish there will be a whole cartoon episode where Michaelangelo becomes a "Leo-respected persona" for once (a somewhat opposite of the Leo turning whacky ep in the OT).

[TheUltimateShredhead]

gee, this thread is still running:P

[Sage Ninja]

Oh, my apologies if you misunderstood me, Sage-san. I'm not offended on the content of this thread. I'm just exhausted of the people who thinks Michaelangelo is stupid (they may not be in this thread, but there are, alright). Even with your title

my title is a sort of tongue-in-cheek dig at an actual quote from the orginal series that Raphael made in responce to some some one saying that Michaelangelo was smart. The irony of this remark is that it pretty much shows what people in general think of Michaelangelo, and what he has to deal with. No matter what he does that proves other wise, his friends think he's not as intellecually gifted as they are. Even though in the very episode where this quote is uttered by Raphael, Michaelangelo succusfully out manuvers a mad sciencetists traps and does it almost primarly by thinking around them. Practially for the other turtles to see and they still think he's dumb.

So the title I used was not me being direspectful toward Michaelangelo but just a ironic wording describing Michaelangelo, which turned out to be false. :)

[Jelly Bean]

gee, this thread is still running:P

and yet you contributed to this threads activity by posting a pointless question on why it was still running. :P Thats like the same as gobo's advice of making FF a finacial succuss in order to destroy it. :lol:

Sage Ninja, what episode is it that that quote comes from? Is it in season three?

[NameGoesHere1066]

is Mikey really the youngest in the 80's toon? He really doesn't seem like he is the youngest of the turtles in that series from what I've seen. He doesn't really have alot of "youngest memeber of the group" qualites to him from what I've seen of him.

I don't think Mike is the youngest in the old toon, I think they are all about the same age. Honestly I liked that because he was just a guy who took things more in stride than the others, like in the mirage comics, neighther old toon or Mirage Mike ever acted like the annoying yet cute younger sibling, they where their siblings equals not little brothers that needed extra protection. :roll:

Honestly I don't get why this obsession of age order has come from? Or why in recent mediums the writers feel the need to distinguish the turtles age rank by giving them obviouse characteristics that classify them as oldest second oldest, ect. Personaly I like their age placement to be ambiguious so it's not clear who is oldest and youngest. I don't like it because they tend to give them sterotypical characteristcs of younger and older. Which is what they've done to Mike recently by making him more childish and dependent with a mind set of an eight year old, and they made him the annoying little brother sterotype, ugh! They even went and gave him a more childish nick name "Mikey"; in the mirage comics they never call him Mikey, it was "Mike" which sounds less cutesy and babyish.

In every incarnation Mike is portrayed younger and younger with his easy going and humourous characteristics being converted into immaturity, and does younger siblings always portrayed as being dumb or hyper? Being the youngest in the group doesn't mean you can't be responciable and serious sometimes. What if Mike is the oldest instead of the youngest? The oldest can't be easy going and humourous? Look at CGI Mikey, he barely registered as a teenager in that movie more like a cute eight year old brother acting all helpless and niave. Does any one thing that's a litte at odds to how a fearsome ninja should be portrayed?

what episode is it that that quote comes from? Is it in season three?

it's from the episode "what's Michaelangelo good for?" and I can't remember what season it's from. This is a special episode because Mike doesn't once mention or eat pizza in it! :o :o

[superturtle]

the old toon mikey is more serious then the new toon but the comic one is nasty he acts like raph

[Jelly Bean]

In every incarnation Mike is portrayed younger and younger with his easy going and humourous characteristics being converted into immaturity, and does younger siblings always portrayed as being dumb or hyper? Being the youngest in the group doesn't mean you can't be responciable and serious sometimes. What if Mike is the oldest instead of the youngest? The oldest can't be easy going and humourous? Look at CGI Mikey, he barely registered as a teenager in that movie more like a cute eight year old brother acting all helpless and niave. Does any one thing that's a litte at odds to how a fearsome ninja should be portrayed?
what's wrong with Mikey being the youngest in the group? It may make him look helpless and niave but it brings out the affectionate protective side of Leo, Don, and Raph and kind of serves to make the turtles look more closer to each other.

the old toon mikey is more serious then the new toon but the comic one is nasty he acts like raph

What do you mean the comic version of Mikey is nasty because he acts like Raph?

[triplexxx]

In every incarnation Mike is portrayed younger and younger with his easy going and humourous characteristics being converted into immaturity, and does younger siblings always portrayed as being dumb or hyper? Being the youngest in the group doesn't mean you can't be responciable and serious sometimes. What if Mike is the oldest instead of the youngest? The oldest can't be easy going and humourous? Look at CGI Mikey, he barely registered as a teenager in that movie more like a cute eight year old brother acting all helpless and niave. Does any one thing that's a litte at odds to how a fearsome ninja should be portrayed?He may act that way at times, but in battle scenarios he's just as much willing to protect and risk his life for the others as they are willing to do for him.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

my title is a sort of tongue-in-cheek dig at an actual quote from the orginal series that Raphael made in responce to some some one saying that Michaelangelo was smart. The irony of this remark is that it pretty much shows what people in general think of Michaelangelo, and what he has to deal with. No matter what he does that proves other wise, his friends think he's not as intellecually gifted as they are. Even though in the very episode where this quote is uttered by Raphael, Michaelangelo succusfully out manuvers a mad sciencetists traps and does it almost primarly by thinking around them. Practially for the other turtles to see and they still think he's dumb.

So the title I used was not me being direspectful toward Michaelangelo but just a ironic wording describing Michaelangelo, which turned out to be false. :)

Ah, OK. Got it, Sage-san. Do you know what ep was it from? Sure like to watch it again.

;)

I don't think Mike is the youngest in the old toon, I think they are all about the same age. Honestly I liked that because he was just a guy who took things more in stride than the others, like in the mirage comics, neighther old toon or Mirage Mike ever acted like the annoying yet cute younger sibling, they where their siblings equals not little brothers that needed extra protection.

Name-san, Mikey isn't really the youngest in the group. They are all of the same age. They were all baby turtles in the container, remember? He's just portrayed as the youngest because of his happy character and positivie disposition in life.

Raph might have said "I have to diasagree on you with that, big brother," to Leo in the CGI movie, but it's kinda sort of as a big brother like Big Brother in the reality series. "Big brother" here is synonymous to someone with authority, but I don't think as "big brother in terms of age".

:)

[Cipher]

I've really enjoyed Michelangelo, and found him fairly intellegent, in every version except the new cartoon. The old cartoon portrayed him as being very laid back, and in the Mirage comics he's always been sensitive and calm, but he was far from stupid in either one. The smartest version would be Image, I suppose, wherein Mike became an award-winning author.

I'm not sure why the new toon decided to have him be so hyperactive and irritating. Do kids seriously dig his constant and out-of-place one liners?

[Sage Ninja]

Do you know what ep was it from? Sure like to watch it again

"What's Michaelangelo Good For?" is the episodes name and it's in season four. Hope that helps. :) It's one of my favorites about OT Michaelangelo.


Name-san, Mikey isn't really the youngest in the group. They are all of the same age. They were all baby turtles in the container, remember? He's just portrayed as the youngest because of his happy character and positivie disposition in life.:)

Except that he wasn't portrayed as the youngest in the group in the 1987 series. He had those personality characteristics because that was just him, it nothing to do with him being the youngest. And actually I would hesitate to say that Michaelangelo was forever happy-go-lucky in the old toon. Sometimes they showed him being depressed or upset in the series, so he wasn't completely a happy fool in that medium.

I've really enjoyed Michelangelo, and found him fairly intellegent, in every version except the new cartoon.

That is mostly the the regression of his character in FF that made him a total idiot. I'm not bashing Fast Foward so FF suporters don't assinate me, I'm just pointing out that they made Mikey look even more juvinile and foolish in FF than how he was in earlier seasons. Mikey may not have been LeatherHead intelligent but he was a completely stupid eaighther. What I liked about 2k3 Mikey was that there was some ambiguity to his intelligents that made not so clear of he was smart or dumb. He would be this total space cadit one minute and then make a completely uncanny observation that was right on the money and it would shock his brothers and the viewers that he could come up with an intelligent plan/observation, but but the same time it would be in character for Mikey since it wasn't far off to he normally thinks. No they took all that subltey away and he'ds just a bumbling moron. :roll: Any one no what I'm talking about?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Couldn't Archie be an own choose in the poll.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd be interested in seeing the results of said poll if the only votes placed were by those that have experienced all said versions of Michelangelo, and not just, "Oh, I've only seen the original cartoon and 4Kids Mike, so I'm going to vote for one of those two."

Michelangelo in Mirage Vol. 1, 2, 4 and Image 3. By far. Where Don is more of a technical thinker, Michelangelo is more of a creative thinker. In Vol. 1 we see him writing a story where he goes on a mystical journey in Feudal Japan, and Vol. 3 even had him becoming an accomplished -- and published -- writer.

Vol. 4 doesn't necessarily back down on the Mike-as-a-creative-mind angle, though much of Vol. 4 he's been pretty... tied up.

[Cipher]

Michelangelo in Mirage Vol. 1, 2, 4 and Image 3. By far. Where Don is more of a technical thinker, Michelangelo is more of a creative thinker. In Vol. 1 we see him writing a story where he goes on a mystical journey in Feudal Japan, and Vol. 3 even had him becoming an accomplished -- and published -- writer.Exactly. Mike is my favorite character in the comics. People always point out how different Raph's old toon personality is from the comics. The difference between Mirage Mike and new toon Mike is even starker.

Vol. 4 doesn't necessarily back down on the Mike-as-a-creative-mind angle, though much of Vol. 4 he's been pretty... tied up.He's at least laid back and sociable. The picnic scene where he made faces at the human child was very in character.

That is mostly the the regression of his character in FF that made him a total idiot. I'm not bashing Fast Foward so FF suporters don't assinate me, I'm just pointing out that they made Mikey look even more juvinile and foolish in FF than how he was in earlier seasons. Mikey may not have been LeatherHead intelligent but he was a completely stupid eaighther. What I liked about 2k3 Mikey was that there was some ambiguity to his intelligents that made not so clear of he was smart or dumb.Bzzt. Wrong. While Fast Foward made excessive use of Mike's one-liners, he's been an irritating comic relief character from day one. I'll grant that it got worse over time, though.

[Darth Shredder]

I'm not sure why the new toon decided to have him be so hyperactive and irritating. Do kids seriously dig his constant and out-of-place one liners?

Well let's see. During NT's debut, my younger brother was about 9. A pretty normal kid (at the time...), too. Mikey wasn't the least bit entertaining to him.

I liken it to George Lucas implementing a bunch of slapstick into Star Wars. While he sees this as real humor, everyone else watching those scenes only sigh and shake their heads. I can imagine him sitting there giggling like a child going: "Oh yeah, they'll find silly droids bumping into one another and then slipping and falling really hilarial!!"

You know what kids really find funny? Not slapstick, so much as wacky weirdness. That's why Spongebob Squarepants is such a hit with the younger crowd.

[NameGoesHere1066]

Name-san, Mikey isn't really the youngest in the group. They are all of the same age. They were all baby turtles in the container, remember? He's just portrayed as the youngest because of his happy character and positivie disposition in life.

By why does the happy and positive one always labled as the "youngest" in the group? That's what I was getting at. You don't have to be youngest to be posetive and laid back. My youngest sibling is pretty damn dour and serious gloom and doom in personality and he's the baby. I just pointing out that by labling Mike the youngest they start taking away his dignified characteristics in favor of the sterotype of a hyper active brat, which is what he's turned into.

Bzzt. Wrong. While Fast Foward made excessive use of Mike's one-liners, he's been an irritating comic relief character from day one. I'll grant that it got worse over time, though.

agreed. From the very first episode of the new toon Mikey was characterized as that, nothing's cahnged. From the very first season Mikey has been nothing more than a filler character, with his only role to add ridculous commentary and be the insanely annoying little brother. He really does have any other role except that. :roll:

what's wrong with Mikey being the youngest in the group? It may make him look helpless and niave but it brings out the affectionate protective side of Leo, Don, and Raph and kind of serves to make the turtles look more closer to each other.

because normally the way it is treated in the show is that Mikey is such an attention whore that every one ignores him to the point that if he fell off a building or a bridge no one would notice or care until like...two weeks after the fact.

Michelangelo in Mirage Vol. 1, 2, 4 and Image 3. By far. Where Don is more of a technical thinker, Michelangelo is more of a creative thinker. In Vol. 1 we see him writing a story where he goes on a mystical journey in Feudal Japan, and Vol. 3 even had him becoming an accomplished -- and published -- writer.

ok I got to ask this since so many have pointed this out, but how does being able to write make you smart? I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to. Where is if you are a mathmatcian or sciencetist you really have to have knowledge and a specual kind of intellect to do be able to do that stuff. Why does every keep pointing out Mike's writing ability in the comics as an indication that he's smart?

[Cipher]

ok I got to ask this since so many have pointed this out, but how does being able to write make you smart? I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to. Where is if you are a mathmatcian or sciencetist you really have to have knowledge and a specual kind of intellect to do be able to do that stuff. Why does every keep pointing out Mike's writing ability in the comics as an indication that he's smart?The ability to write creatively and eloquently does take a measure of intellegence. It's creativity vs. books smarts. You don't see Red Neck Joe banging out an award winning novel, after all.

I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to.Now I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but some people will never be able to write well. However, anyone can learn advanced mathematics if they want to.

[Coola Yagami]

ok I got to ask this since so many have pointed this out, but how does being able to write make you smart? I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to. Where is if you are a mathmatcian or sciencetist you really have to have knowledge and a specual kind of intellect to do be able to do that stuff. Why does every keep pointing out Mike's writing ability in the comics as an indication that he's smart?


Maybe not so smart... but Mikey in the new toon looks like someone that can't write 2 sentences without falling alseep, or at least nothing that isn't comicbook related. The fact that Mikey is able to acoomplish publishing a book in the comics would have shown that Mikey isn't all that airheaded if it were shown in the new show.

[Jelly Bean]

you mean like Mikey falling asleep on his book during the lost season when he was supposed to be reading them? Isn't what having ADHD is all about not being able to concentrate?

Now I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but some people will never be able to write well. However, anyone can learn advanced mathematics if they want to.

but doesn't being able to write have to with an innate skill than a learned one? Meaning it's eighther you have the abilty or you don't right? That has nothing to do with learning or intellect if you have it naturally than it's a talent, not anything to do with how smart you are. I've read the comics but does being creative writer ever come into play with how Mike thinks or stratgises in the book?

About Mikey's slap stickness in the show. I don't know if the writers are trying to make him funny or if they are deliberately making him irritating and dumb. What ever their motive, it's hurting him more than helping. Him acting the way he does makesit kind of hard to sympathise with him. Mikey confuses me, I don't like how he acts alot but I sort of feel sorry on how most fans can't stand him.

[Drtooth]

You know... I realized something. The one time I think Mikey really shined in the new series was when he was fighting Raph in the Battle Nexus. Why? The fact he was annoying the shell out of his opponent, causing him to get over-exerted, and act out of anger, making terrible moves.

Here's what I have to say.... why doesn't he do that all along? You know, for other villains? If he's gonna be annoying, make it for a cause... like he planned it all along.

[Sage Ninja]

Bzzt. Wrong. While Fast Foward made excessive use of Mike's one-liners, he's been an irritating comic relief character from day one. I'll grant that it got worse over time, though.

well...I disagree on this one. Yes Mikey has always had the stupid one liners and been an irritating comic relief but he was more nuanced than that in thw brain department. It's very slight but in seasons one through 1-5 Mikey's problem seemed like he had a case of constipation of the mind and diarrea of the mouth, where as instead of thinking before he speaks he just comes out with ridiculous things because he's trying to be funny. And his antics where mostly attention getting devices so it made him appear stupid. But there where times in the show where he would think things through and come up with things that helped. off the top of my head, was him thinking of a way to defeat Ananda little mind controlled robots by spreading the attack out in several directions, or in Reality Check where he thouight of refiguring the distance of the bomb to only blow up the building instead of the whole city. See little things like that gave some ambiguity to his intellect that maybe he wasn't as retarded as he acts.

In FF, all that sublety is taken away, and I know I'm probably splitting hairs here but FF mikey acts like a complete meathead. The witers don't even give him the benifit of being even slightly alert smart. Him thinking that purple goop on his hotdog is relish and not questioning it? Come on how dumb do you have to be. He almost appears uneducated and clueless on general things.

but doesn't being able to write have to with an innate skill than a learned one? Meaning it's eighther you have the abilty or you don't right? That has nothing to do with learning or intellect if you have it naturally than it's a talent, not anything to do with how smart you are. I've read the comics but does being creative writer ever come into play with how Mike thinks or stratgises in the book?

Being able to write takes more than just that and having more skills than penmanship. Writing isn't all about putting your feelings down, you actually have to know about something in order to write it well, and writing has allot to do with stratigy and execution. So yeah, writing isn't a huge piece of cake like people make it out to be, and it's not just about the act of writing it self, theres much, much more to it than that.

From the very first episode of the new toon Mikey was characterized as that, nothing's cahnged. From the very first season Mikey has been nothing more than a filler character, with his only role to add ridculous commentary and be the insanely annoying little brother. He really does have any other role except that.

uh, you're forgetting that Mikey is one of the main characters, he's not just a filler character. if he wheren't the comic/show would be called "the three ninja turtles, plus that other turtle" :|

[Coola Yagami]

well...I disagree on this one. Yes Mikey has always had the stupid one liners and been an irritating comic relief but he was more nuanced than that in thw brain department. It's very slight but in seasons one through 1-5 Mikey's problem seemed like he had a case of constipation of the mind and diarrea of the mouth, where as instead of thinking before he speaks he just comes out with ridiculous things because he's trying to be funny. And his antics where mostly attention getting devices so it made him appear stupid. But there where times in the show where he would think things through and come up with things that helped. off the top of my head, was him thinking of a way to defeat Ananda little mind controlled robots by spreading the attack out in several directions, or in Reality Check where he thouight of refiguring the distance of the bomb to only blow up the building instead of the whole city. See little things like that gave some ambiguity to his intellect that maybe he wasn't as retarded as he acts.

In FF, all that sublety is taken away, and I know I'm probably splitting hairs here but FF mikey acts like a complete meathead. The witers don't even give him the benifit of being even slightly alert smart. Him thinking that purple goop on his hotdog is relish and not questioning it? Come on how dumb do you have to be. He almost appears uneducated and clueless on general things.



Being able to write takes more than just that and having more skills than penmanship. Writing isn't all about putting your feelings down, you actually have to know about something in order to write it well, and writing has allot to do with stratigy and execution. So yeah, writing isn't a huge piece of cake like people make it out to be, and it's not just about the act of writing it self, theres much, much more to it than that.



uh, you're forgetting that Mikey is one of the main characters, he's not just a filler character. if he wheren't the comic/show would be called "the three ninja turtles, plus that other turtle" :|


Well... not to bicker but... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles could apply to at least 2 of em or even 5 and 6 of them.

Another moment Mikey was smart in the NT was one of the eps where Leo as going Kaarai-Emo with the slashed shell, Mikey was pointing out to everyone just how important Leo is to the team and how he feels pressured by the other turtles to keep them all together. I forgot how Mikey put it, but it was like saying Leo feels he had to be serious leader because he feels the others need him to be the serious leader to keep em together. Anyone got that speech down?

[NameGoesHere1066]

You know... I realized something. The one time I think Mikey really shined in the new series was when he was fighting Raph in the Battle Nexus. Why? The fact he was annoying the shell out of his opponent, causing him to get over-exerted, and act out of anger, making terrible moves.

Here's what I have to say.... why doesn't he do that all along? You know, for other villains? If he's gonna be annoying, make it for a cause... like he planned it all along.

um, are you asking this question in jest or are you actually being serious here? Mikey is annoying because he's annoying theres no great plan or scheme on his part to deleberately exploit his talent of pissing people off and run them down, I doubt he even thinks like that. People react in aggravation to Mikey because thats just how he is, he's not actually calculating a responce from people. If he was he wouldn't end up on the recieving end of physical punishment so much and act "suprised" that he is getting hit.

Mikey's problem is that he runs his mouth and doesn't know when enough is enough and to shut the hell up, until it's too late. I keep thinking of the story arc where Don was kidnapped by the confideration to find out where the fugitoid was, and the others where teamed up with Triceratrons and he managed to piss one of them off into tackling him because he kept rubbing in their faces that he kicked their butts in the arena. If that was all planning on his part than it was stupid plan that got him slammed into the dirt.

And the reason he doesn't do this to villans is because he's eighther to scared to think of it and he also doesn't know anything about them to piss them off. The only reason Mikey won against Raph is because he knows him and knows how to push his buttons. Thats all, Mikey was afraid to fight Kluh and he was afraid to fight Raph, he used a cowards trick to win because he was to afraid fight Raph and knew he was going to lose to him.

[Rooish]

Awesome discussions going on in this thread ...

I'm having trouble deciding which version of Mike is the smartest, mostly because each version is quite different, and people can be smart in many different ways. Overall I think his intelligence is a bit above average. . He is not always the most aware and intuitive person (he seems a step behind the others when they are discussing serious things, and he sometimes gets himself into trouble for being careless). But his problem solving is pretty creative and unorthodox at times, and he seems to be either quite witty (with his one-liners), quite articulate (with his writing), or both, depending on the medium. He sometimes seems to surprise himself with his own problem-solving. I think this is because he lacks confidence. He also has some very decisive brothers who will make the decisions whether he joins in or not, so whether or not he is analyzing the situation and coming to smart conclusions, he has a tendency (at least in ... both cartoons and the movies) to stay quiet and let the others decide things. So it's a little harder to gauge his intelligence.

(For that matter, I sometimes have trouble determining how smart Raph is in relation to his brothers, because he is so impulsive and reactive. I think it's safe to say that both Leo and Don are smarter than average, although Leo wasn't really portrayed as smart in the old toon--just confident, moralistic, and decisive.)

Here's my opinion on some of the versions of Mike:

Comics: Mike is pretty quiet during key moments in the series. He's not much of a jokester, although he obviously likes to relax and/or have fun. But he stays pretty quiet when decisions need to be made. This implies that he either a) doesn't care enough to speak up, b) isn't smart enough to follow, or c) lacks the confidence to speak up. Since the others don't really pick on him in Mirage (from what I can tell, he is just sort of laid-back and nice and he gets along with the others fine), he doesn't have much reason to lack confidence. And since he is a writer, which implies that he can organize his thoughts well, and since he is a good fighter, which means he can think quickly, I don't think he has problems with comprehension. But because he sometimes gets himself into trouble, my guess is that he has fine comprehension and learning and problem solving, but only when he cares. He is smart, but not very in tune with his surroundings. I think he's just kind of stuck in his own head, having a good time, which allows him to be a writer and to be self-aware (which is why he lacks pretentiousness and angst). The cool thing about Mirage Mike, at least in the earlier Volumes, is that he could be thinking something totally brilliant, but he doesn't speak up so we'll never know. The reason I love Mirage Mike is that, no matter how smart he is, he has a huge heart. He's always seeing the bright side of things and cheering his brothers up, he is a caregiver (based on his interactions with Shadow and Klunk), and he sympathises with everybody (even the Rat King, who tied him up and left him to be eaten by rats. Leo throws a shuriken at the Rat King and Mike goes, "Leo, wait!" and then Don has to pull him away because he wants to go make sure the Rat King is okay. Unbelievable.)

Old Toon: He's very similar to Mirage, but he is more vocal. So he is more likely to voice a thought that sounds stupid, and it's just because he is a bit unaware and hasn't bothered to think something through. This leads him to be an easy target for bullying (especially from Raph), because his spaciness is much more obvious. So he is more emotional, because he gets picked on and this hurts his confidence. Now, I think that Mike and Raph are actually pretty close in the old toon and Raph picks on Mike because he likes them, but Mike is a sensitive guy and he gets really upset and angry when he gets teased. So he comes across as much more emotional in the cartoon, and I think that's because he has more to react to. He's still really nice and caring, and he is pretty heroic when he has a cause that affects him. He is pretty smart, and, as in all other versions, when he focuses he can solve most problems, often in creative or unorthodox ways that surprise people. But, as in the Mirage version, he can be spacey, and he lacks self-confidence, and for both of these reasons, he can come across as less smart than he is. But I feel that I sort of "get" old toon Mike, and I can say that he is not stupid. However, he is still stuck in his own head, and this makes him emotional and clumsy sometimes.

Movies: He's witty and cracks funny jokes. This implies intelligence to me. He's a really warm and happy character, especially in the second and third movies, which implies emotional intelligence. He comes up with a few good ideas. But for the most part, he doesn't take himself or life very seriously, which means he leaves the deep thinking to the others (especially in the first movie). Like usual, Mike is a bit of an underachiever, but there's not much to suggest that he isn't smart. He just doesn't apply himself. This is sort of constantly how Mike is. Why bother trying when he could feel good about life and himself while functioning on a slightly more careless/carefree level? Anyway, the new movie, the CGI one, is kind of a mix of the other versions of Mike: he has the old toon's spaciness, the new toon's hyperactivity, and the live action movies' warmth and humour. Overall he is probably the dumbest Mike, but he wasn't even that dumb; he just sort of came across as child-like.

New Toon: Mikey (I hate how they always call him "Mikey" in this series, but whatever) is so obviously not stupid that I don't even know why people would think that. I think Mikey is hilariously witty in this series. Of course he's annoying as hell. I have a lot of problems with new toon Mikey, mostly because he's just kind of lost his heart. He's not very nice. He's attention-seeking and he's hyperactive. But he's very quick on the uptake. He plays dumb because it's easy. He underachieves and doesn't work on his fighting skills because it's easy. In the early RPG stats on Mike, it said he's a "hedonist and a sensualist," and this is obvious in all versions of Mike: he likes to be happy, he likes to be comfortable, he likes to have a good time. He is an underachiever and a bit lazy. Unfortunately, in the new toon, he has lost the caring nature he usually has, and he is also a child of the 90s and has a frighteningly horrible attention span. He has low confidence (he constantly doubts himself and is a wuss), and because he doesn't want to fail, he sets really low expectations for himself and doesn't try to fight, or to act smart, or to do anything but crack jokes. His family goes along with it because he's frustrating and because he doesn't try. It's easier for him to be useless than for him to try to be useful and to fail.

So I've thought about this way too hard, and I've ended up addressing most of Mike's personality traits besides his intelligence. I think Mike's intelligence doesn't really matter to the writers of most of the mediums. It doesn't even matter much to me, although I personally think he is at least average intelligence and definitely not dumb. Mike serves another purpose altogether, which is usually to add some "heart" to the story, either because he is a sweetheart (in most mediums) and/or because he appeals to people with low confidence or who are underachievers, and/or because he is funny.

I personally interpret Mike's intelligence (reasoning, problem solving) as fairly high; his wisdom (intuition, awareness, and knowledge) as below average--not because he can't learn but because he doesn't try very hard--and his emotional intelligence (self-awareness, empathy) as very high, except in the new toon. Overall I'd say the smartest version of Michelangelo is him in Mirage or the old cartoon. But that is just my opinion based on my interpretation of Michelangelo, and I think that usually the writers are careless enough that Mike is left open to a lot of interpretation.

[triplexxx]

I don't mean anything against anyone by this, but I don't care too much for it when Michaelangelo is referred to as an underachiever. Maybe in the training room it appears so, but out in the field, like every other, he contributes to a majority of their victories, and the field is what matters most. When it comes down to it, he's as loving to his family as any of the others in every universe, just shows it in his own way, like each of the others do; he serves the same purpose with his life as the others and is as willing to sacrafice himself for his family as much as the others.

[Jelly Bean]

Awesome discussions going on in this thread ...

I'm having trouble deciding which version of Mike is the smartest, mostly because each version is quite different, and people can be smart in many different ways. Overall I think his intelligence is a bit above average. . He is not always the most aware and intuitive person (he seems a step behind the others when they are discussing serious things, and he sometimes gets himself into trouble for being careless). But his problem solving is pretty creative and unorthodox at times, and he seems to be either quite witty (with his one-liners), quite articulate (with his writing), or both, depending on the medium. He sometimes seems to surprise himself with his own problem-solving. I think this is because he lacks confidence. He also has some very decisive brothers who will make the decisions whether he joins in or not, so whether or not he is analyzing the situation and coming to smart conclusions, he has a tendency (at least in ... both cartoons and the movies) to stay quiet and let the others decide things. So it's a little harder to gauge his intelligence.

Here's my opinion on some of the versions of Mike:

Comics: Mike is pretty quiet during key moments in the series. He's not much of a jokester, although he obviously likes to relax and/or have fun. But he stays pretty quiet when decisions need to be made. This implies that he either a) doesn't care enough to speak up, b) isn't smart enough to follow, or c) lacks the confidence to speak up. Since the others don't really pick on him in Mirage (from what I can tell, he is just sort of laid-back and nice and he gets along with the others fine), he doesn't have much reason to lack confidence. And since he is a writer, which implies that he can organize his thoughts well, and since he is a good fighter, which means he can think quickly, I don't think he has problems with comprehension. But because he sometimes gets himself into trouble, my guess is that he has fine comprehension and learning and problem solving, but only when he cares. He is smart, but not very in tune with his surroundings. I think he's just kind of stuck in his own head, having a good time, which allows him to be a writer and to be self-aware (which is why he lacks pretentiousness and angst). The cool thing about Mirage Mike, at least in the earlier Volumes, is that he could be thinking something totally brilliant, but he doesn't speak up so we'll never know. The reason I love Mirage Mike is that, no matter how smart he is, he has a huge heart. He's always seeing the bright side of things and cheering his brothers up, he is a caregiver (based on his interactions with Shadow and Klunk), and he sympathises with everybody (even the Rat King, who tied him up and left him to be eaten by rats. Leo throws a shuriken at the Rat King and Mike goes, "Leo, wait!" and then Don has to pull him away because he wants to go make sure the Rat King is okay. Unbelievable.)

Old Toon: He's very similar to Mirage, but he is more vocal. So he is more likely to voice a thought that sounds stupid, and it's just because he is a bit unaware and hasn't bothered to think something through. This leads him to be an easy target for bullying (especially from Raph), because his spaciness is much more obvious. So he is more emotional, because he gets picked on and this hurts his confidence. Now, I think that Mike and Raph are actually pretty close in the old toon and Raph picks on Mike because he likes them, but Mike is a sensitive guy and he gets really upset and angry when he gets teased. So he comes across as much more emotional in the cartoon, and I think that's because he has more to react to. He's still really nice and caring, and he is pretty heroic when he has a cause that affects him. He is pretty smart, and, as in all other versions, when he focuses he can solve most problems, often in creative or unorthodox ways that surprise people. But, as in the Mirage version, he can be spacey, and he lacks self-confidence, and for both of these reasons, he can come across as less smart than he is. But I feel that I sort of "get" old toon Mike, and I can say that he is not stupid. However, he is still stuck in his own head, and this makes him emotional and clumsy sometimes.

New Toon: Mikey (I hate how they always call him "Mikey" in this series, but whatever) is so obviously not stupid that I don't even know why people would think that. I think Mikey is hilariously witty in this series. Of course he's annoying as hell. I have a lot of problems with new toon Mikey, mostly because he's just kind of lost his heart. He's not very nice. He's attention-seeking and he's hyperactive. But he's very quick on the uptake. He plays dumb because it's easy. He underachieves and doesn't work on his fighting skills because it's easy. In the early RPG stats on Mike, it said he's a "hedonist and a sensualist," and this is obvious in all versions of Mike: he likes to be happy, he likes to be comfortable, he likes to have a good time. He is an underachiever and a bit lazy. Unfortunately, in the new toon, he has lost the caring nature he usually has, and he is also a child of the 90s and has a frighteningly horrible attention span. He has low confidence (he constantly doubts himself and is a wuss), and because he doesn't want to fail, he sets really low expectations for himself and doesn't try to fight, or to act smart, or to do anything but crack jokes. His family goes along with it because he's frustrating and because he doesn't try. It's easier for him to be useless than for him to try to be useful and to fail.

I personally interpret Mike's intelligence (reasoning, problem solving) as fairly high; his wisdom (intuition, awareness, and knowledge) as below average--not because he can't learn but because he doesn't try very hard--and his emotional intelligence (self-awareness, empathy) as very high, except in the new toon. Overall I'd say the smartest version of Michelangelo is him in Mirage or the old cartoon. But that is just my opinion based on my interpretation of Michelangelo, and I think that usually the writers are careless enough that Mike is left open to a lot of interpretation.

hmm, very good essay:D You make some very good points. Although I'm not sure that Mikey isn't very perceptive like you seem to claim he is. From what I've seen in the new toon, is that Mikey is intutive and perceptive to a fault. I always thought that was the reason why Mikey gets started or frightened so easily because he's more sencetive to whats going on around him and it spooks him. Although I don't think he is playing dumb in the new series, and I don't find him all that witty eighther. But that's just my opinion, the reason I don't find him witty is because...well, he tries to hard. It's not natural, so his attemtps at one liners or jokes seem very contrived and forced, so he sounds stupid. And I think the times he is acting dumb are not fake and he's actually acting foolish. But that's just my impression.

Old Toon: He's very similar to Mirage, but he is more vocal. So he is more likely to voice a thought that sounds stupid, and it's just because he is a bit unaware and hasn't bothered to think something through. This leads him to be an easy target for bullying (especially from Raph), because his spaciness is much more obvious.

Actually I haven't really seen old toon Mikey voicing many stupid thoughts. Most of the time things or observations he makes seem relevent to whats going on and/or insightful. I think that's what I like about OT Mikey, I don't see him saying many off the wall things when something is going on and he seems to have alot of awarness of what's going on.

When it comes down to it, he's as loving to his family as any of the others in every universe, just shows it in his own way, like each of the others do; he serves the same purpose with his life as the others and is as willing to sacrafice himself for his family as much as the others.

I agree with this. :)

PS, why do you not like Mikey being called Mikey?

[Sage Ninja]

I would like to point out that in the most recent episode of the show in BTTS Mikey showed quite a bit of quick thinking and intelligence. On two major occassions Mikey used his smarts to manuver his way of out of trouble and to help the team. When they where all sent to the dino age and they where being over whelmed by some variant of a T-Rex (I think) Mikey solved the problem by having a triceratops scare away the dino by using a branch with some vegitation on it to entice it to do what he wanted.

And then later when the turtles had to get to a time period where there was more advanced technology to to over ride Viral, Mikey took the inciative and tricked Viral into sending them to a more technological place, which gave Donny what he needed to fix Serling and over come Viral. Mikey's resoucefulness and inciative reminded me of OT Michaelangelo when he would pull stuff like this to help every one.

I hope the writers make Mikey smarter than what he's been before, after this.

[Jelly Bean]

I wonder if this new season of the new toon is going to make Mikey's look smarter than in previous seasons. We are only two episodes in and he has already shown alot of inciative and been the one turtle to make a diffrence in a the major fights.

[NameGoesHere1066]

Is there a diffrence between being cunning and intelligent?

I was reading some turtle bios and some described Mike as being cunning rather than intelligent. :ohwell:

I always thought being "cunning" had a negative conitation to it in the same catergory as decieteful and manipultive. :-?

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I think Mirage Michelangelo is probably the smartest one, because I don't recall that version having many "goofy" moments. It doesn't seem like Michelangelo had much character development until much later in the comics.

I disagree with Michelangelo being the "dumb" one. He's probably the most care free, and in the cartoon and movies he does some pretty immature stuff, but that's not an indication that he's dumb. He's just not the super genius that Donatello is, or the really disciplined one like Leonardo.

[Roland]

What Mikey dumb the creator of cowabanga! He is the one that make witty remarks that is actually funny.

[Archon_Turtle]

Posting.....OF THE DEAD!

(psst...you spelled Mikey wrong)

[CyberCubed]

I just wish Mikey would spend all his time cooking pizzas again with the chef hat on like he used to.

[Roland]

Posting.....OF THE DEAD!

(psst...you spelled Mikey wrong)

Thanx. I corrected my spelling mistake.

[Candy Kappa]

to me Mike seems to be alike Spider man, using humor/jokes as a part of catching the opponents off guard, and that he's a character that likes a laugh.
I don't really see him as dumb or stupid

[Jester]

That and I see Mikey as the typical slacker. I knew slackers in High School and they were smart, but hid it with the slacker-ness.

[Vivi]

I don't see Mikey as at all dumb, I mean, he plays dumb but is by no means stupid. The Triceratons have him pegged.

[Ginny]

That and I see Mikey as the typical slacker. I knew slackers in High School and they were smart, but hid it with the slacker-ness.

Hmmm, that describes me to the proverbial "T" in high school.

Mikey is funny and creative, certainly not stupid. I know after medical coding for 10 hours at work I can't wait to come home and put on Old School or some senseless movie that I can just enjoy without much thought involved. Maybe Mikey is like that in sense, since he is a writer, and the slacker stuff is kind of an escape?

[Sage Ninja]

Well now that all is said and done for the 2k3 toon all I have to say about this version of Michelangelo is he isn't so much dumb, as the writers just made him the primarily the most useless memeber on the team which made him look stupid.

2K3 Mike isn't really stupid he just screws up--alot. On average if you look back on the earlier seasons on many occasions he isn't very useful to the group. He doesn't really make a lot of difference; from what I see, in most of the team fights/missions they would have managed just as well if he hadn't been there (even if they had been one Turtle short). He's even the cause in many instances the turtles royally screw up by tripping an alarm or being loud when he has to be quite. I bit harsh but I think thats why he comes across as dumb in earlier seasons.

He got much better in season three and four where, personly, Mikey was at his best and didn't look completely dumb any more and the most brilliant insights. Then in season six happened and things went down hill for him. But in season seven he came across as very helpful and useful making him appear smarter. So all in all this 2k3 Mikey wasn't as stupid as I orginally thought. If we ever get another turtle cartoon or show down the line maybe he'll be potrayed with a bit more gray area between the ears. But reall I think this "Michaelangelo is goof-off idiot should stop

[Coola Yagami]

Always found it funny how the turtles have their differences in fighting styles, like.. Leo is the most dedicated and should be the best, Raph is too violent and reckless, Don is too much into science to devote enough time to perfect his skills and Mikey is meant to be the goof-off and least trained.... and yet in all-out fight against the Foot, Purple Dragons, Triceratons, etc etc, they all fight just as good. And when a certain ep calls upon one turtle, they always succeed in their mission perfectly regardless of which one it was.

[triplexxx]

Well, it's not that their fighting styles are different, I mean they were raised by the same teacher, taught the same arts; it's their areas of expertise that sets them apart (skill, speed, strength, acrobatics, etc.)...but as I've said before, regardless which expertise, it's enough for each one of them to hold their own.

Also, about Michaelangelo not being useful in the first two seasons, remember in Way of Invisibility when Casey was held above the whirlpool and he snuck up behind the foot tech holding him...or when he iced the Entity in Notes Underground 3 when the others where trapped.