Metal Gear Solid 4

[poiuytre]

Installing it at the moment so while I wait, I think it's probably a good idea to make a separate thread for it. Wouldn't want to clog the Sony or Latest Purchase thread up with spoilers. Which brings me to the next point...

All spoilers should be marked within this thread. Preferably like this, so you know what you can read and what you shouldn't:
Act 2: Hello.


Time to get a drink, some snacks, dim the lights and mute my phone before the install's finished. But before I close off, let us also hold a moment of silence for the couple of European countries that had the game delayed for a week. Their sacrifice ensured that the rest would have more available copies. I salute you, comrades.

[Mecha Cow]

God, I want to get this game so f*cking bad, but I should really wait until my finals are over. Stupid school!

[poiuytre]

Apparently Konami changed their statement about the delays and said it wasn't their fault but the gas prices'. :lol:


You are stronger than me, Cow. I have two projects to finish by next week, yet here I am. :ohwell: It's going to sound hypocritical, but I think you're doing the right thing by waiting. No game is worth neglecting your education for except maybe a PS3 remake of Final Fantasy 7.

The game is a blast so far tho. The only thing I'm not liking is how they made men's buttocks even more detailed. :dead: The game keeps trying to point your attention to it. I was hoping they would have toned down the homo stuff this generation. It doesn't even make any sense either. No fabric works like that, Kojipro. Please stop doing it.

::edit::
Finished Act 1. I kinda wish I chose a harder difficulty setting. Solid Normal feels a little too easy and I seem to be progressing more quickly than I'd like, eventho I'm taking my time. Overall act 1 is already the best part of the entire MGS series. I hope the next acts can match or exceed it!

[OA]

Man, this is the ONE game that makes me consider getting a PS3. Any chance this making it to the 360 or is this defin. an exclusive?

[Peanut]

It's weird that it kinda feels so shooter heavy. It's fun still pretty fun, though. The multiple installs are kinda...weird. That's for sure. The game looks f*cking amazing, though.

Also, I kinda feel like the westernization of the game is a shame. How many third-person-shooters do we already get here in North America? Now the shooting in Metal Gear feels just like every other TPS, with the exception that the hit-detection isn't so hot.

[Ninjinister]

(Sets up the waiting-for-spoilers camp)

[poiuytre]

Completed in 16 hours.
Rank: Eagle

Feels kinda on the short side but I'm going to start replaying on a harder difficulty setting and try to collect the extras. It started off amazing but it kinda went "downhill" from there, which is still really good, mind you. Act 1 > the rest of the MGS series, but considering the whole package, it's probably more like MGS2 > MGS1 > MGSPO > MGSA2 > MGS3 > MGS4 > MGSA > MGSTS.

Wow, retcon much, Kojipro? I found the story to be wonderful and the best in the series until I stopped and thought about it. Some things are don't make no sense at all.

Ocelot was a faking the Liquid possession? He was a quadruple agent? When you think about it, it makes MGS2 feel pointless except for a few small side stories that no-one really cares about.

As much as I'd love it to be different, the game is purely fan service and can't stand on its own like the previous PS1/2/P games. Sure, it's the game every Metal Gear fan has been asking for, but it's times like this that illustrate that fans don't really know what's good for them. I wouldn't have minded a couple of mysteries left unsolved instead of forced references, cameos and explanations.

I really loved Akiba and Sunny. Easily some of the best characters in the franchise. Seeing as this is Snake's last game, I hope they will continue the Metal Gear series with Johnny. :D

Overall I'd give it a 9.6/10.

[Peanut]

I dunno how to do anything but lol at half of the above post.

ANYWAYS, I'm on chapter 4 of the game, and it's fantastic. I'm actually enjoying the later parts of the game more than the beginning, and I have to say yet again, the westernization of Metal Gear hasn't really added anything to the experience, and in some cases, I really think it detracts.

[Dr. Doom]

I haven't read anythign posted in here (nor do I intend to), but the nightmare will soon be over. My friend Dave broke down and bought a PS3, and he's almost done with the game, so he's gonna let me borrow it. This problem resolved itself much quicker than I thought it would.

[Peanut]

There aren't any spoilers in here?

[Peanut]

So, I'm pretty f*cking pissed off. I fought through a lot of the last act, and right at a big moment, my power flickers for about 2 seconds, shutting off my F*CKING PS3, and of course, since MGS4 was apparently still designed back in 1998, there are no such things as auto-save checkpoints that allow you to continue from a certain point should something go awry. So I ended up all the f*cking way back at the beginning of the stupid f*cking act, the beginning of which is really god damn annoying. In all my rage, I keep trying to fly through it, having already beaten that section, but keep getting killed, so I smash the f*ck out of my Sixaxis. PS3 controllers are weak as ****, one toss and the entire top piece by the triggers snapped off. Another toss and the thing doesn't work anymore.

I hate bad old game design. Also, flickering power has pissed me off far too often already this summer.

[Peanut]

Ending is awful. I feel robbed.

[The Stryker]

Did you see the scene during the credits?

[Peanut]

Yes? If you mean the one with Big Boss then yes. It was f*cking trash.

[Brodie]

Were there long ass cut scenes?

[The Stryker]

Yes? If you mean the one with Big Boss then yes. It was f*cking trash.

Ahh alright, I liked the ending alright but I can see how some would hate it.

[Krang]

Also, flickering power has pissed me off far too often already this summer.
If that happens regularly, getting one of these (http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=21) for your consoles would help.

[Ninjinister]

Yes? If you mean the one with Big Boss then yes. It was f*cking trash.

I thought that ending was fitting for the series. F7ck that I loved it.

[poiuytre]

Ending Spoiler
As much as I like Big Boss, I thought the scene was kinda lame and cheapens the character and MGS deaths in general. He just appeared alive looking brand-spanking new, went over a checklist of unexplained plots and died again. I think I would have liked it better if there was no scene after the credits.

[Peanut]

If that happens regularly, getting one of these (http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=21) for your consoles would help.

I have one, but it seldom works. I don't know what's wrong with it. I'll have to look into it.

Ending Spoiler

As much as I like Big Boss, I thought the scene was kinda lame and cheapens the character and MGS deaths in general. He just appeared alive looking brand-spanking new, went over a checklist of unexplained plots and died again. I think I would have liked it better if there was no scene after the credits.


Man, you and I finally agree on something. That's exactly how I felt about it. It totally takes away from the way the gameplay ends, and the things that happen prior to it. And I REALLY feel like it takes away from the feeling that this was Snake's game, Snake's goodbye. We already had a huge emotional climax with Big Boss in MGS3, and then they decide to do it again, and leave the end of Snake's story wide open? There was no closure with his character. We just got even further closure on Big Boss, something that didn't need to be done at all.

I should say that I still think the game was f*cking fantastic for what went on in it, in particular I loved...

The surprises they throw at you in terms of gameplay. That little MGS1 throwback prior to revisiting Shadow Moses Island, the Metal Gear fight, the MGS3-esque motorcycle chase with EVA, Snake crawling his way through the microwaves while insane sh*t went down on the top screen, and the entire end battle against Liquid Snake/Ocelot/Liquid Ocelot was so mind blowing. The cinematic nature of it, the music, the throwback health meters. It was f*cking amazing. Greatest boss fight ever?

In terms of what I thought was sh*tty, I'd have to say that having those retarded looking arm things as the only enemies throughout all of Shadow Moses was a bad decision. Imagine how it would feel to play through that section of the game while facing actual guards again? It would have been terrific. Also, nanomachines pretty much became the MGS version of fairy dust. They're used to explain everything that seemed like it couldn't possibly have a normal (as far as Metal Gear goes) answer.

[Ninjinister]

In terms of what I thought was sh*tty, I'd have to say that having those retarded looking arm things as the only enemies throughout all of Shadow Moses was a bad decision. Imagine how it would feel to play through that section of the game while facing actual guards again? It would have been terrific. Also, nanomachines pretty much became the MGS version of fairy dust. They're used to explain everything that seemed like it couldn't possibly have a normal (as far as Metal Gear goes) answer.

The nanomachines being the answer to everything was pretty much bunk. It cheapened some of the few mystical connections Metal Gear had, such as Vamp's immortality. I mean, in a series where there are real psychics and ghosts, why is it any stretch of the imagination to have a real vampire?

[Peanut]

Is anyone else disappointed that there aren't very many things to unlock or extras in this one? I guess we're going to have to wait for the Substance/Subsistence version of MGS4.

[Ninjinister]

Is anyone else disappointed that there aren't very many things to unlock or extras in this one? I guess we're going to have to wait for the Substance/Subsistence version of MGS4.

Other than not having a PS3, this is the main reason I'm waiting to get the game myself (although the former reason is like, the biggest one). Every major MGS game has had an upgraded release (although in the US, MGS1's rerelease, Integral was hacked down into just a bonus VR Missions disc). I'm betting MGS4 will not be any different.

[Peanut]

Yeah, and then I'll own 3 copies of the game.

[Peanut]

I just thought of something...odd. Maybe someone can somehow explain this to me.

At the end of MGS4, Big Boss talks about how Eva and Ocelot "rebuild" him using pieces of Solidus and Liquid. Aside from the fact that there's something like 6 years between Big Boss' death and Liquid's death, in which time Big Boss is somehow kept alive, there's another thing that irks me. Revolver Ocelot grafts Liquid's arm on to himself, which would be fine, as it explains how Liquid's body ended up with the Patriots, and thus how it's used to rebuild Big Boss. The problem actually springs up in MGS2. When the tanker sinks, and Snake is thought to be dead, a body is pulled from the harbor, a body who's DNA is said to match that of Solid Snake. I do believe that body is supposed to be Liquid's. So...how does that work?

Edit: Actually, I think I figured it out...

I guess the Patriots were the ones to take Liquid's body out of the harbor? I don't know how they could possibly use it for anything after being dead for that long, but who knows.

[Ninjinister]

I don't know for sure, as I haven't played MGS2 too much... I think it's only been in my Xbox once since I got it over a year ago. Anyway, maybe it's a Solid Snake clone, like in Ac!d 2? Then again, Ac!d 2 was non-canon....

There's also the possibility that they didn't use actual physical parts to reconstruct Big Boss, but instead stem cell reconstruction.

[poiuytre]

I just thought of something...odd. Maybe someone can somehow explain this to me.

At the end of MGS4, Big Boss talks about how Eva and Ocelot "rebuild" him using pieces of Solidus and Liquid. Aside from the fact that there's something like 6 years between Big Boss' death and Liquid's death, in which time Big Boss is somehow kept alive, there's another thing that irks me. Revolver Ocelot grafts Liquid's arm on to himself, which would be fine, as it explains how Liquid's body ended up with the Patriots, and thus how it's used to rebuild Big Boss. The problem actually springs up in MGS2. When the tanker sinks, and Snake is thought to be dead, a body is pulled from the harbor, a body who's DNA is said to match that of Solid Snake. I do believe that body is supposed to be Liquid's. So...how does that work?

Edit: Actually, I think I figured it out...

I guess the Patriots were the ones to take Liquid's body out of the harbor? I don't know how they could possibly use it for anything after being dead for that long, but who knows.
Yes, that's pretty much how it supposedly went.

What I don't get though is why Ocelot underwent the hypotherapy and got the Liquid nanomachines. Couldn't he just have faked it after removing the arm? Seeing as the only Patriots alive were Zero, Ocelot and Eva (Big Boss too, I suppose, but he is presumed dead). With Zero being a vegetable and Ocelot and Eva being Big Boss supporters, they could have ended this mess much sooner. Not to mention much more easily, if everyone properly teamed up with Snake.

And what about the list of the Patriots in MGS2? That was the whole reason why Snake and Otacon were there.

::edit::
Wow, I just realised that Sigint was the person Ocelot killed in MGS1. I wonder what happened to Paramedic.

[Peanut]

Wow, I just realised that Sigint was the person Ocelot killed in MGS1. I wonder what happened to Paramedic.

The Ocelot hypnosis thing is a huge point of contention among fans right now. It's really weird, but someone had a decent theory about it that I read somewhere. I need to try and find it again.

And those Patriots that were in MGS2 were actually The Philosphers, I believe. All of which were dead by the time Snake and Otacon found out about it.

Para-medic was killed by Frank Jaeger aka Grey Fox aka Cyborg Ninja. She was actually the one who experimented on him and turned him into what he was in MGS1.

[愛]

You have no idea how hard it is not to push the Show button on these spoiler tags. I should avoid this thread altogether. :cry:

[poiuytre]

The Ocelot hypnosis thing is a huge point of contention among fans right now. It's really weird, but someone had a decent theory about it that I read somewhere. I need to try and find it again.

And those Patriots that were in MGS2 were actually The Philosphers, I believe. All of which were dead by the time Snake and Otacon found out about it.

Para-medic was killed by Frank Jaeger aka Grey Fox aka Cyborg Ninja. She was actually the one who experimented on him and turned him into what he was in MGS1.
That doesn't entirely fit with what Otacon said with the people in the list being dead for over a hundred years tho. :ohwell: I guess you can fix that by pretending Otacon had the wrong info or that he was exaggerating. Maybe it's just a retcon like how the doctor that experimented on Jaeger used to be a man.

Not that it really matters. When you're trying to make a deep storyline of previous plots and characters puzzled together, you're bound to make little slip ups once or twice if you didn't plan it from the start. They did a pretty good job at tying the games together.

I'm still interested in a link to the Ocelot theory you were talking about. Putting it in any coherent context will do at the moment. I wasn't a fan of the possessed arm debacle and they managed to make the character even more ridiculous. :dead:


On another note, I'm trying to do a no-kills, no-alerts run on BB Extreme. It's torture, people. TORTURE. :sick:

[Peanut]

I just read in the database that the list of Patriots was created by the real Patriots to throw people off. I don't really get it, but I guess that's the official word on it. And as far as Naomi (I think?) saying the person who messed with Jaeger was a dude, the database also says that was an assumption on her part, because the name she knew was Dr. Clark, and not the full name.

I can't find where I read that Ocelot theory, and I can't really remember it. I find the more theories I read on it, the more confused I get about the entire thing. I was only kinda confused on a few things after finishing the game, but after all this backlash about Ocelot, I don't even know anymore.

And you're also crazy to be doing that. I won't even attempt to try it, seeing as PMC soldiers will spot Snake on a battlefield while they're being shot at from every direction, then ignore said shooting and focus on Snake entirely. I don't even want to go through the hassle of it. I set off more alerts in this one because of random sh*t I didn't even understand it isn't funny. I'd always know how I was spotted in previous games, but in this one, I rarely have any idea as to what happened.

[Mecha Cow]

I just finished it. One of the greatest games ever. Absolutely amazing.

I can definitely understand why some people were upset by Big Boss' return at the end, but I personally thought it was great. The character was such an important part of the series' mythos and yet he was barely featured in the Solid games (Naked Snake is a much younger and different incarnation of him). I felt he needed the closure, and he helped provide closure for Snake, too.

A couple of things I still don't quite understand, though.

Who created Solidus, and why did the Patriots instate him as US president? They said he wasn't part of the Les Enfants Terribles project (EVA said she only gave birth to twins), but they never did explain when or why he was created, did they?

And what about Raiden? Have I completely missed something, or did they completely ignore how he...became a cyborg? What the hell happened to him? Also, anyone notice how the scientist who'd worked on Raiden was Dr. Madnar, the creator of the original Metal Gear?

As for the list of Patriots at the end of MGS2, I assumed they were the names of the Philosophers, but the game never got into that.

*E* I just read on the MGS Wiki that Ocelot was actually possessed by Liquid during MGS2, but removed the arm and replaced it with a cybernetic one (as seen at the end, which really confused me) before doing the hypnotherapy thing. Dunno if you guys knew this already, I didn't anyway.

[Peanut]

A bunch of those questions are answered in the Metal Gear Database. It's free to DL on PSN right now in the NA, so I'm sure it won't be long until it makes it over there.

[Ninjinister]

Must have more spoilers from the Database >.<

Maybe it's just a retcon like how the doctor that experimented on Jaeger used to be a man.

Actually, although Peanut said it was explained in the database, it was never stated Dr. Clark's gender in the Japanese version. I'm guessing that's in the North American version of the database only.

Who created Solidus, and why did the Patriots instate him as US president? They said he wasn't part of the Les Enfants Terribles project (EVA said she only gave birth to twins), but they never did explain when or why he was created, did they?
I'm not so sure about that. Solidus was the third clone of Big Boss, and there was actually eight created through Les Enfants Terribles - only the other five did not survive, apparently (remember, until the end of MGS 1, they thought only Solid and Liquid survived until the bombshell conversation that revealed that the president was a third surviving clone). So maybe the others had different surrogate mothers?

[Mecha Cow]

Solidus was the third clone of Big Boss, and there was actually eight created through Les Enfants Terribles - only the other five did not survive, apparently
Yeah, at the end of MGS1 Liquid said eight embryos were created through LET and that six were intentionally aborted to create him and Snake. When Solidus showed up as the third clone in MGS2, we just assumed that there had actually only been five abortions, but I don't think they ever said this outright.

But EVA said she only gave birth to twins, and Naomi seemed to imply Solidus was created for a different reason, leading me to believe he was created at a later time and wasn't one of the eight embryos after all. What does the Database say about him?

[ToxicRevolution]

My grad party is in a week, and I think I might have to spend a chunk of the money I get from it on a PS3 and MGS4. :oops:

[Peanut]

From the Database...

Solidus Snake - 43rd President of the United States, George Sears. The third Snake; a pure clone created from Big Boss's body cells, perfectly matching his DNA pattern.

That's the entirety of information they give on him in terms of origin. The rest is all story related information, going on for about 5 pages, but no mention of anything we're interested in. Even the Relationship chart, which highlights every single relationship in the series only has

Solidus connected to Big Boss as a clone, and then to Raiden as an adoptive father.

[Mecha Cow]

So basically Kojima himself doesn't know either. :lol:

[Ninjinister]

I was kind of miffed that Solidus only got vague mentions in MGS4, and now the database doesn't have anything interesting to back it up?

Since he got less closure than Johnny Sasaki, I'm predicting (or rather, hoping) for Konami to come out with Metal Gear Solidus XD

Does anybody have the cajones to produce the relationships chart for those of us that aren't privy to it?

[Peanut]

I was kind of miffed that Solidus only got vague mentions in MGS4, and now the database doesn't have anything interesting to back it up?

Since he got less closure than Johnny Sasaki, I'm predicting (or rather, hoping) for Konami to come out with Metal Gear Solidus XD

Does anybody have the cajones to produce the relationships chart for those of us that aren't privy to it?
Dude, Solidus got f*cking set on fire, that's all the closure a character needs. Used and abused by the Patriots his entire life, then his mutilated body is further abused, before he gets burned "alive". I think that may be a little more than " vague mentions".
As far as the database goes, I don't think you really understand how the relationship chart works. There's a different chart for every single important time-period of the series. For example, it has a chart for the Shadow Moses Incident; and then has a debriefing chart following the Shadow Moses Incident. It isn't just one big picture, and it's entirely impossible to produce anything like it without some really serious effort. I would go ahead and screen cap it for everyone, but some of the charts are way too large, and the only possible way to see the connections is to be zoomed all the way in.

[Ninjinister]

Dude, Solidus got f*cking set on fire, that's all the closure a character needs. Used and abused by the Patriots his entire life, then his mutilated body is further abused, before he gets burned "alive". I think that may be a little more than " vague mentions".
As far as the database goes, I don't think you really understand how the relationship chart works. There's a different chart for every single important time-period of the series. For example, it has a chart for the Shadow Moses Incident; and then has a debriefing chart following the Shadow Moses Incident. It isn't just one big picture, and it's entirely impossible to produce anything like it without some really serious effort. I would go ahead and screen cap it for everyone, but some of the charts are way too large, and the only possible way to see the connections is to be zoomed all the way in.

Getting switched for Big Boss and set on fire isn't closure, it's a cop-out!

And thanks for explaining how the database works. I had no idea, because, well, I don't have access to it, otherwise I wouldn't have asked :p

[Jed]

The database is out in Europe this Thursday.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6192831.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1

[AquaParade]

Is it true that it does not come with cables suited for an hdtv?

[Peanut]

No PS3 does.

[AquaParade]

What a Shame. How much you think a good set would go for at best buy? Should I go in prepared, or can i get a cheap good quality package?

[Peanut]

You can literally find component or HDMI cables for $10 online. If you go to Best Buy, you're probably looking at anywhere from $20-$200.

[Mecha Cow]

All HMDI cables do essentially the same thing, so there's no 'best' one or anything. Just get the cheapest one you can find.

[愛]

This is true, as far as I know, there is no way to increase the quality of HDMI cables. As for component cables, however, if you get the golden tips, it increases the quality a little bit. I learned that this is true when I was installing a subwoofer in my car. It actually does help, if only by a little bit.

[poiuytre]

Pretty much. There is no picture/audio quality difference when you're just going to use it for a game console. The signal stays digital from start to finish. Obviously a sturdier, higher-quality cable will last longer, but if you keep them neatly tucked and leave them alone, it shouldn't be an issue either.

Buy the cheapest HDMI cable you can find and enjoy. I think I got mine for $20 each and that was more than a year ago. You can probably get them cheaper now.