Old Michelangelo

[Andrew NDB]

Any thoughts?

[jerome]

what do you mean by old michelangelo? Like how he was back in the vol.I days or his aged "older" self in vol.4?

[Andrew NDB]

Neither. In old age... say, end of the 21st century.

[Jester]

Yeah, cause we sooo could have got that from the title. :roll:

I could see Mikey living to be the oldest of the TMNT, along with Donatello. I think he'd be fairly light hearted, even then, but he'd certainly would be more level headed with age.

[TristanHuwJones]

In spite of what I'm prrretty sure everyone else thinks, I reckon Raph lives longest. I could see Mike going first, with Leo being the one "responsible". We know they all seem to go their separate ways somewhere in their old age, but if you take a look, Old Raph is significantly healthier in appearance and certainly nowhere near as weathered as the others...

[PAAATE]

In spite of what I'm prrretty sure everyone else thinks, I reckon Raph lives longest. I could see Mike going first, with Leo being the one "responsible". We know they all seem to go their separate ways somewhere in their old age, but if you take a look, Old Raph is significantly healthier in appearance and certainly nowhere near as weathered as the others...

Maybe the others pick up smoking :P

[Scandia]

Doesn't Donatello live the longest officially?

[PAAATE]

Doesn't Donatello live the longest officially?

That's just speculation.. I think.. :???:

[TristanHuwJones]

Yeah, I don't think the deaths are an area that's been positively answered. Here's what we know:

Raph loses an eye and seems to have resisted the effects of aging, and that he travels to Japan and sets himself up in a swamp somewhere.

Leo travels the world, gets his game on with Radical, sees her killed years later by Complete Carnage. He becomes obsessed with killing Complete Carnage but never finds him. Leo goes to Japan and becomes a Buddhist. When he accidentally stumbles upon a Complete Carnage hostage crisis, he frees the hostages and kills Carnage. That's his last kill. Years later he's living in an unknown city in a treehouse of sorts.

I'm pretty sure it's Don --it could be any of the four-- but the bookends to Tales 38 have him living in a strange structure overlooking a vast ocean. Given what we know about Leo, I like to think it's Don.
We also know that Don goes back to Japan at some point, and that he goes blind somewhere down the track. We also know he travels into outer space a number of times.

We don't know much about Mike though...

I have a feeling that Leo might not have killed Carnage in a physical sense. If you take the frontispiece in the new Collected Tales Vol.1 he's in a stasis chamber. If you think about it, Leo said he never found Carnage (until their meeting in 41), so that would mean that the Carnage in the stasis pod is a reassembled one from a time after Leo "killed" him.

[odupianist]

I see Mike living either the longest or next to longest. My reasoning is because "you're only as old as you feel". Mikey is very young at heart I think, and that is why he will out live at least Don and Leo. Raph may live long too because he's tough, but I don't think there has been any official talk on who will live the longest and who will die first. Although now I think about it, I'm sure Don could come up with some machinery to help him live a long time, whether it be cloning, machines attached to him, or his brain in a machine.

[DrSpengler]

Well, the only time we've ever seen old Mike is in Don's holographic simulation from the Tales TPB frontispieces, correct?

Those frontispieces along with "Old Times", which feature an elderly Don, living all alone who is brought to tears at the memory of his brothers, has always had the implication to me that Don is the last of the Turtles.

As for Mike, he's the only one of the three that hasn't gotten any stories about him in old age. I've always taken that as meaning he doesn't live as long as the rest of them. There are graves outside of Leo's home in Japan during "Loops". No names, but they could possibly mean he has outlived a few of his brothers.

[Raph's Girl]

We also know that Don goes back to Japan at some point, and that he goes blind somewhere down the track. We also know he travels into outer space a number of times.

Wait what?? I must have missed an issue. Don goes blind??? Which issue was this??

Im only familiar with the Future Leo and Future Raph stuff :/

[VaughnMichael]

I'm pretty sure it's Don --it could be any of the four-- but the bookends to Tales 38 have him living in a strange structure overlooking a vast ocean. Given what we know about Leo, I like to think it's Don.
We also know that Don goes back to Japan at some point, and that he goes blind somewhere down the track. We also know he travels into outer space a number of times.
You and everyone else seems to be forgetting the short story in Plastron Cafe of Don in the future and his holographic fighting simulator where it brings up his brothers and he starts to cry and says never to bring them up again.
Really makes you wonder what happens but it could just be another forgotten pushed aside thing, much like splinter dead at the hands of one of the turtles from vol. 2.

[PAAATE]

Really makes you wonder what happens but it could just be another forgotten pushed aside thing, much like splinter dead at the hands of one of the turtles from vol. 2.

I'm still waiting for that to happen in some way..

I don't want any sloppiness in the writing :(

[Andrew NDB]

The tale in Plastron Cafe #1 wasn't that far in the future, though... in fact, Volume 4 is nearly there. "Early 21st Century," Plastron Cafe #1 says, so somewhere 2001-2025ish is when that happens. That Don gives Leo his sword at nearly the turn of the 22nd century suggests that his move to Japan is permanent.

In spite of what I'm prrretty sure everyone else thinks, I reckon Raph lives longest.

In spite of what everyone else thinks? If we're to take the tale from Road Hogs as even a rough indicator, Raph is the last.

[Ninjinister]

The tale in Plastron Cafe #1 wasn't that far in the future, though... in fact, Volume 4 is nearly there. "Early 21st Century," Plastron Cafe #1 says, so somewhere 2001-2025ish is when that happens. That Don gives Leo his sword at nearly the turn of the 22nd century suggests that his move to Japan is permanent.



In spite of what everyone else thinks? If we're to take the tale from Road Hogs as even a rough indicator, Raph is the last.

Yes, but then there are MORE Ninja Turtles - including a female one. And that breaks Pete's vision.

[Scandia]

Is "Road Hogs" even canon? Would it be more official than "Old Times" and Tales Vol 1. frontispieces?

[Andrew NDB]

Yes, but then there are MORE Ninja Turtles - including a female one. And that breaks Pete's vision.

True. Though they don't appear to even be the same kind of turtles at all... and ironically, the world of After the Bomb (with mutants and aliens all over the place and in which Old Raph and his New TMNT reside) isn't too unlike what Pete himself has done with Earth in Volume 4.

And as far as I've heard, the main basis of Pete's issue with a female Turtle was that it would take away from their uniqueness, take away them being the last of their kind and never being able to reproduce... and yet with all of these other compatible alien females Pete has brought to Earth now and Michelangelo even (apparently) having babies with Regenta... this was kind of repealed too, essentially, wasn't it?

I have heard Peter use the words "creatively bankrupt" in regard to them ever adding a female Turtle. Just my thoughts, but it only seemed to come up in regard to adding one to the regular lineup to like the cartoons or the any time when the TMNT were still teenagers.

[Andrew NDB]

Is "Road Hogs" even canon? Would it be more official than "Old Times" and Tales Vol 1. frontispieces?

None of those examples you list take place as far into the future as Road Hogs.

But who knows if it is canon. Other Palladium mini-comics that appeared in their RPG books are canon.

[VaughnMichael]

None of those examples you list take place as far into the future as Road Hogs.

But who knows if it is canon. Other Palladium mini-comics that appeared in their RPG books are canon.
That's because they've been in other official Mirage releases, Road Hogs on the other hand has not been so I really don't think it' official, but you know what only one way to find out ask Peter on his blog.

[Andrew NDB]

I have a feeling that Leo might not have killed Carnage in a physical sense. If you take the frontispiece in the new Collected Tales Vol.1 he's in a stasis chamber.

It could be the clone of Carnage that the TMNT fought with Savage Dragon. If I recall, it was only smacked into the ocean, wasn't it?

[Andrew NDB]

That's because they've been in other official Mirage releases, Road Hogs on the other hand has not been so I really don't think it' official, but you know what only one way to find out ask Peter on his blog.

You're right, of course. It's never been implicitly stated as not canon... but I'd imagine yes, it probably falls into a laundry list of other comics like "The River," "Hall of Lost Legends," "Twilight of the Ring" that are all non-canon now.

[VaughnMichael]

You're right, of course. It's never been implicitly stated as not canon... but I'd imagine yes, it probably falls into a laundry list of other comics like "The River," "Hall of Lost Legends," "Twilight of the Ring" that are all non-canon now.
Ah well they're all still fun to read and look at, I wish all tmnt comics still had such great artists behind them.

[Scandia]

and yet with all of these other compatible alien females Pete has brought to Earth now and Michelangelo even (apparently) having babies with Regenta... this was kind of repealed too, essentially, wasn't it?

I think this may be part of the plot- giving Mikey false hope. But since the babies are extremely unlikely to be his, the uniqueness of the Turtles being the last four of their kind will still be there.

[TristanHuwJones]

You and everyone else seems to be forgetting the short story in Plastron Cafe of Don in the future and his holographic fighting simulator where it brings up his brothers and he starts to cry and says never to bring them up again.
Really makes you wonder what happens but it could just be another forgotten pushed aside thing, much like splinter dead at the hands of one of the turtles from vol. 2.

Hey VM - No, I wasn't forgetting it, I just ond't have the story on hand right now to check out where and when it was set. I know it's not TOO far into the future, as Don hasn't really aged physically in it. And if I'm right, isn't that also set in Japan?

Raph's girl - We find out Don is blind in the Tales Volume 1 Collected book.

Andrew - RE Carnage: No, Leo just splits him and then HE goes and cleanses himself in the ocean.

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew - RE Carnage: No, Leo just splits him and then HE goes and cleanses himself in the ocean.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/tsd22.jpg

I said the clone of Carnage, you're thinking about the real deal. And I just checked and, yep, he does just drown in the ocean in Savage Dragon #22 (continued/concluded from the second Mirage TMNT/Savage Dragon special by Dooney).

Perhaps this is the Carnage that is in suspended animation?

And about the vision of one of the Turtles apparently killing Splinter in Vol. 2, #1, we may yet see that. How? Well, perhaps Don uses that bit of hair he plucked from Splinter by his death pyre to clone him... but the clone doesn't end up quite right in the head, perhaps like a rabid animal that he has to be the one to put down himself.

[TristanHuwJones]

Carnage has an insane amount of abdominal muscles.

I'll have to dig that one out and re-read it! I think ultimately a lot these come down to working out what's continuity and what's not.

Splinter's a bit of a tricky one too, and prophecies and visions are never exact. Death could be interpreted a number of different ways...

[turkishproverb]

Carnage has an insane amount of abdominal muscles.

I'll have to dig that one out and re-read it! I think ultimately a lot these come down to working out what's continuity and what's not.

Splinter's a bit of a tricky one too, and prophecies and visions are never exact. Death could be interpreted a number of different ways...

IF its a vision, it could mean that one will commit an ultimate betrayal of splinter or what he believed.

[Andrew NDB]

Carnage has an insane amount of abdominal muscles.

I'll have to dig that one out and re-read it!

It's fairly good. It's not really Carnage there... I think they cloned him from his arm or something. He doesn't even speak in the whole two-parter.

Radical gets a good amount of exposure in the Mirage special there. We see her falling back a lot on her then-newly revealed Indian heritage. Dooney's art at its absolute best, page for page.

I think ultimately a lot these come down to working out what's continuity and what's not.

It would be very, very strange if those first two Savage Dragon crossovers weren't in continuity (Mirage's TMNT/Savage Dragon I and II, and TSD #2 and #22). Particularly with Dooney's fingerprints all over them, and Mirage themselves publishing a part in each of the two crossovers.

Obviously the third crossover in the pages of Image's Vol. 3 wouldn't be in canon anymore.

Splinter's a bit of a tricky one too, and prophecies and visions are never exact. Death could be interpreted a number of different ways...

It could be representative rather than literal, what we saw. I was always fascinated by that vision. Gary Carlson kind of had it come true in Image's Vol. 3.

[VaughnMichael]

I'd like to see the Slinter bloody death thing play out as Donatello cloning him from whatever he snipped from Splinter and then it going evil and Don feeling as if it's his fault goes after it and has to kill the clone Splinter.

[TristanHuwJones]

I had an idea to revisit that prophecy for a possible Tale. I might give it a shot when the time comes (if the time comes). It involved the Rat King (a character I'd kill to use!).

[funatic]

Posting a bit late to this thread but my thoughts on the future TMNT is that Raph would likely be the first to go.

While he certainly is in tip-top cycloptic shape in Tales v2 #40 - I would think that Raph would be the sole turtle to not die of old age - but to go out with a bang in combat. It just suits his hot-head nature that he would meet his ultimate end in a moment of action/rage/vengence/defiance etc. (much like in Leo's depression-based fantasy from Blind Sight v1).

Although, I could also see Raph on the other end of the spectrum, outliving them all thanks to his survivalist, 'I look out for myself and myself alone' tactics. However, questionably canon material (esp. from the new Tales TPB) is making it seem more and more likely that Don is our time-defying terrapin, which suits his passive nature, just like a dramatic fight to the death would suit Raph's aggressive nature.

The lack of any future-glimpse at Michelangelo is noteworthy though - he very well may have been cut down before his time, which could have been why the other three went their separate ways in the future, without having Mikey's warmth and compassion to keep them together... :cry:

[SHREDDER-X]

Hey, since some real world turtles are known to live to be a 100 years old, does this apply to the TMNT ? How old were they when they all went their seperate ways ?

[Cipher]

Hey, since some real world turtles are known to live to be a 100 years old, does this apply to the TMNT ? How old were they when they all went their seperate ways ?It depends on the universe. In Archie, they live to be hundreds of years old. In the new cartoon, they appear to all be dead by the time Fast Foward occurs (presumably.) Mirage is fairly vague, but we've seen glimpses of old Turtles with futuristic technology. Of course with alien trade, who knows?

[KROW]

Carnage has an insane amount of abdominal muscles.

Like a purple ear of corn. I love Larsen's art.

In old age... say, end of the 21st century.

So, about 2099 or so? Hmm...

I think Mikey would have pale, leathery, and loose skin, crumbling plastrons, and bifocals. He would be a bit hunch-shelled from working on his writing so much, and using his skateboard as a shelf for his rough drafts. He'd still be living in the sewers, playing old video games, reading comics, and eating Cheetos when not working, and have a picture of Splinter (maybe a sketch he did) hanging in his office. He would receive occasional phone calls from Casey's grandchildren and talk about old adventures and new story possibilities. Donatello would be living with him, as Raph passed away from heart failure and Leo chose to live in Japan.

[Galactus]

I had an idea to revisit that prophecy for a possible Tale. I might give it a shot when the time comes (if the time comes). It involved the Rat King (a character I'd kill to use!).

Maybe I'm wrong but I assumed that Laird wanted to handle the prophecy in vol. 4. I can't remember which issue but didn't Raph when he first mutated into his current form have a vision of his own involving him dressed in his rags like he wore in RtNY killing the Shredder in the sewers but it turns out to be Splinter.

EDIT

I was just re-reading some of the issues were Raph become Gamera Raph to refresh my memory in the vision and I noticed in the letters page that Laird says that whatever Don clipped from Splinter at the funeral doesn't have any connection to what we saw in volume 2.

I still think it could still come into play though. Seeing as we're seeing people from alternate realities in the current comics.

[tilallr1]

My vote would go to Leo outliving everybody.

First Raph is too hot-headed to not get killed before his prime. If anyone goes first it probably would be him.

Next Mike would go. He always ate badly and slacked off more than the others. I am sure his health would turn south before he outlived his brothers.

Next Don. Who would probably live close in age with Leo, But I only say Leo would outlive Don because Leo always tried to stay in top peak condition, physically and mentally. Where as Don would rather sit sometimes at a Computer.

Also, if we take into account the fact the Leo is the better fighter in the group, he could survive confrontations alot better than any of his brothers.

[PAAATE]

Next Don. Who would probably live close in age with Leo, But I only say Leo would outlive Don because Leo always tried to stay in top peak condition, physically and mentally. Where as Don would rather sit sometimes at a Computer.

Doesn't Leo have more enemies than the other turtles? I could see him going out in an act of vengeance... which would be kinda ironic...

I think that Mike goes first, no idea how, then Raph for the same reason everybody else says, then Leo, and last Don

[Venom]

The only time I remember seeing a future Michelangelo was when he was Werewolf Mike in Tales V.2 #39. Although it was set in an alternate timeline, apparently that was the way things were to have played out if it weren't for Raph being able to divert the situation.

Heh, Werewolf Mike and Skeletal Raph...I still love that Wolfman Leo figure from years ago! :D

[cup-mikey-gertha]

First Raph is too hot-headed to not get killed before his prime. If anyone goes first it probably would be him.

Good point, but, he has the tough guy image, so he could probably last longest. Plus, in one Turtles universe, he does live longest.

...if we take into account the fact the Leo is the better fighter in the group, he could survive confrontations alot better than any of his brothers.

Yup, but we all know about Leo and his confrontations..

Doesn't Leo have more enemies than the other turtles? I could see him going out in an act of vengeance... which would be kinda ironic...

See? We're thinking the same.

I think that Mike goes first, no idea how.

For some reason, I think so too. It's easy to imagine Mikey in adult age and more serious with him becoming an accomplished writer. But Mikey all wrinkled up, with arthritis, possibly cranky, sporting a cane or some hi-tech wheelchair perhaps?

:roll:

I've always wanted Mikey to stay as young as he can be.

:)

[funatic]

But Mikey all wrinkled up, with arthritis, possibly cranky, sporting a cane or some hi-tech wheelchair perhaps?

:roll:

I've always wanted Mikey to stay as young as he can be.


I could totally see the same old lighthearted Mikey, all wrinkled up in front of a virtual-fireplace, telling the great-great-grandchildren of April and Casey about "that time I beat Triceraton Prime Leader Zanramon's All-Star Warriors in gladiatorial combat..."

[cup-mikey-gertha]

I could totally see the same old lighthearted Mikey, all wrinkled up in front of a virtual-fireplace, telling the great-great-grandchildren of April and Casey about "that time I beat Triceraton Prime Leader Zanramon's All-Star Warriors in gladiatorial combat..."

Ha-ha-ha-ha.

:lol:

Oh! And don't forget Mikey as Turtle Titan, so, there goes Mikey and his exaggerations again.

:lol:

[Rooish]

Okay, so about that Tales Vol. 1 collected book. This is how I interpret it. Don seems to go back in time in order of when his bros died. Leo's death was most recent, then Mike's, then Raph's. Raph died first (but he lives to at least 2060 according to Tales Vol. 2), which is why, when he comes back in the hologram reunion or whatever, he still looked young. I don't think he ages slower than the others; I think he died before he looked all old-geezer-y.

Don encounters Raph last, and Mike second-last, which suggests that Mike died second. He encounters Leo first, and we already know Leo lives to at least 100 (also from Tales Vol. 2) so I'm guessing he dies second-last and Don dies last.

As for old Mike ... I would love to see a comic with him.

It makes me kind of sad to think of the Turtles dying, though. And I don't think Mirage should ever tell us how. Fans would hate it too much.

[PAAATE]

And I don't think Mirage should ever tell us how. Fans would hate it too much.

I disagree. It could be really ****ing good.

Of course, depending on the writer it could be really ****ing bad too...

[Rooish]

Heh, that's what I'd be afraid of. If some writer or other made the deaths lame.

I kind of wish Murphy would write a whole series again, like the Archie comics. And he could complete the story of the TMNT.

My one worry though, as a Mike fan is, he doesn't really seem to have much great fondness for Mike. So I'd be worried Mike wouldn't get enough of an arc, whether in life or death, if Murph wrote the story. And ... well, Mike's old age is what this thread is about, so I'd like to see it told well.