Anyone still prefer the classic series?

[Darth Shredder]

Anyone else out there a "Turtles conservative?" 8)

[CyberCubed]

I like both about equally. There are some things I like about the old toon more than the new toon and there are some things I prefer about the new show more than the old one.

It evens out basically. I like all the TMNT universes so it doesn't matter to me.

[ToTheNines]

I like the OT better just because it has greater replay value. But the NT is the better made show, as far as art, animation and overall hardwork goes. Another edge the NT has is the better ratio of good episodes to lame.

[GK Punk]

I prefer the OT personally.

[Darth Shredder]

Sorry, what is OT/NT?

[ToTheNines]

Sorry, what is OT/NT?

OT = Original Toon (or Old Toon).
NT = New Toon.

[Darth Shredder]

Ooh, okay. Thanks.

[†Dr.Killpatients†]

I like the OT better. NT contains too much violence. In my opinion.

[Darth Shredder]

How do you think they went overboard with the violence?

I'm curious.

[Kendamu]

It depends on what point in the series you're talking about. For example, I prefer the first season of the OT over everything else in terms of animated TMNT. However, if I were given the choice between, say, Season 6 of the OT and Season 2 of 2k3, I'd definitely choose 2k3.

[KROW]

I like both of them equally. Where one has the comical charm and colorful texture, the other has a relative semblance to the original comic book that made them great. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The 80s toon was light, whimsy, and just plain fun without the worry of continuity or story. 2K3, though not as flamboyant in its look and attitude, focused more on writing and turned up the action.

I like both for what they are, and what they are not.

[Jelly Bean]

I don't think I've scene enough of the 80's cartoon to make a solid comparison but from what I've seen of it it's not nearly as lame or patronizing as some have made it out to be.

I love the 2k3 series and think it's one of the most interesting cartoons out there. I love how the characters mesh and how the plots are written.

[Raphael_]

I prefer Fast Forward over everything else.

Okay, I kid, but I really like Fast Forward a lot. I prefer the NT over the OT, simply because it feels epic, unlike the OT which is very episodic.

[Kendamu]

I don't think I've scene enough of the 80's cartoon to make a solid comparison but from what I've seen of it it's not nearly as lame or patronizing as some have made it out to be.

I love the 2k3 series and think it's one of the most interesting cartoons out there. I love how the characters mesh and how the plots are written.
Maybe not, but it still is very corny and campy. The OT to TMNT is what the 1960s Batman show is to Batman. While being over-the-top in a lot of ways that make some of the more hardcore comic fans cringe, its success launched TMNT into mainstream pop-culture and is looked upon fondly by a lot of people even if it isn't the "real" interpretation of the TMNT.

So much so, in fact, that its hard to say how long it'll take before something "real" can come out without having the masses go "But why is this nothing like the OT? Screw this!"

[Krang]

Maybe not, but it still is very corny and campy.
In your opinion. Personally, I wouldn't consider anything about it "campy." There may be a few elements here and there that could be considered "corny," but that doesn't describe the show as a whole in my opinion. Overall, it's just a fun, goofy 80's cartoon show, and trying to over-analyze it and take it seriously enough to come up with ways to insult it is just counterproductive and a waste of time.

The OT to TMNT is what the 1960s Batman show is to Batman.
I still think that's a very poor (not to mention overused) comparison.

While being over-the-top in a lot of ways that make some of the more hardcore comic fans cringe, its success launched TMNT into mainstream pop-culture and is looked upon fondly by a lot of people even if it isn't the "real" interpretation of the TMNT.
There is no real interpretation of the TMNT, only multiple interpretations, each of which are no less valid than the other. Just because the OT doesn't take the concept seriously doesn't mean it should be swept under the rug and forgotten.

And, needless to say, I prefer the OT. ;)

[odupianist]

depends on what i'm in the mood for, if i want a story line, i'll go 2k3. if i'm in the mood for a one shot, i may go 2k3 but typically go OT. I do agree with Goonga though, some seasons of the OT are better than the NT and vice versa.

[TheUltimateShredhead]

I think OT is much better then NT at least the last four seasons. I enjoy NT to, but it's OT i mainly centered my tmnt fandom to.

[Scandia]

I like them both. Which one I want to watch at a given moment, depends on my mood. If I am feeling nostalgic and want a good laugh, then I want the OT. If I want an ongoing series with a plot, then I will be craving the NT.

[Drtooth]

I like the OT better. NT contains too much violence. In my opinion.


Of course the OT didn't have much violence back then. All they used their weopons for was cutting pizzas, and slicing robots.

But here's what I think...

Why should I have to chose between the two? I think both series are good for what they are. Sure, NT has more structure, and less pizza joke per capita. But then again, OT has more personality.

And I will say this:

In your opinion. Personally, I wouldn't consider anything about it "campy." There may be a few elements here and there that could be considered "corny," but that doesn't describe the show as a whole in my opinion. Overall, it's just a fun, goofy 80's cartoon show, and trying to over-analyze it and take it seriously enough to come up with ways to insult it is just counterproductive and a waste of time.


I can't so much call the OT campy so much as playful, myself. The 1980's show didn't take itself too seriously,nor did it have to, and that's what made it great. It played like a cartoon, the characters knew they were in a cartoon. I don't think the Batman comparison is too off. I mean, what launched Batman into stardom? The 1966 series. What Batman gets the most pop culture references? 1966 again.

As I said, Batman can be a fun little Tv show from the 60's, or a dark, almost horrific film star. Spider-man can be an angst ridden teenager fighting the forces of evil, the general public, and his own inner demons, or he can fight a Yeti that likes to sit on ice cream (http://youtube.com/watch?v=wLpfF-O1HW4). Why can't the turtles have more than one kind of adaption? Look at the comics. They had Zuli and Hedden/McWeinie all at the same time. And if that's not a stark contrast of TMNT, I don't know what is.

[Jester]

I like both of them equally. Where one has the comical charm and colorful texture, the other has a relative semblance to the original comic book that made them great. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The 80s toon was light, whimsy, and just plain fun without the worry of continuity or story. 2K3, though not as flamboyant in its look and attitude, focused more on writing and turned up the action.

I like both for what they are, and what they are not.
Exactly. Depends on my mood, but I love both TMNT shows for totally diffrent reasons.

[sdp]

Put me in for "both" as well.
The OT has a certain charm about the show that makes it very watchable even today. The OT is not just a dumbed down version of the turtles, it's its own thing. Compare something like the old Batman cartoons by Filmation to BatmanTAS or even The Batman and they are just a pain to watch since its a "dumbed down" version and there are much better alternatives, however you cant say that with TMNT. Even though the new show is BTAS in terms of quality it doesn't take anything from the old show, which just shows how great the OT is.




I still think that's a very poor (not to mention overused) comparison.


Exactly, the OT is not campy. I've used Adam West Batman as an example before but as an example that a franchise can have different interpretations, Batman can work as both his campy self and as a dark character and both have fans. TMNT is the same way, just because one version is less serious it doesn't take away from it.

The analogy works like that but it doesn't work if you say the OT is like the 60s batman show because its not.

[Drtooth]

Though I will say, the low point of TMNT 2k3 (not counting FF, since it's too easy) is a lot easier to take than "Mutegen Monster." That one was plauged by poor writing and overuse of Cow/Cowabunga/Dude ranch puns.

[Spitfire]

The lowest point of 2K3 "Father's and Sons" is so insanely horrid I can't bare to watch it. However the low points of the old toon are more frequent and sometimes more annoying. I can't decide what's worse, "Adventures In Turtle Sitting" or "Father's and Sons". Baby turtle episodes need to burn in hell along with the writers of them.

Personally I like the old series the most still. Not that I don't like 2K3 but after watching both a lot there's just more for me to like in the old show. The humor for one, the old series is actually funny and hardly takes itself seriously. Though when it did I still liked it quite a bit. I felt the characters had better chemistry as well.

[Evenstar227]

I like both of them equally. Where one has the comical charm and colorful texture, the other has a relative semblance to the original comic book that made them great. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The 80s toon was light, whimsy, and just plain fun without the worry of continuity or story. 2K3, though not as flamboyant in its look and attitude, focused more on writing and turned up the action.

I like both for what they are, and what they are not.

Exactly. Depends on my mood, but I love both TMNT shows for totally diffrent reasons.

Dammit. I was gonna quote KROW, but now I can't b/c Jester did. That's how I feel, though.

I like the OT better. NT contains too much violence. In my opinion.

Anyone else see the irony in this? ^_^

[ToTheNines]

Anyone else see the irony in this? ^_^

:lol: I did, but if I responded I would have had to call him a sissy... oops.

[Drtooth]

The lowest point of 2K3 "Father's and Sons" is so insanely horrid I can't bare to watch it.

I thought it was all those lousy episodes where the turtles had to fight random aliens, and pretty much played like guest stars in their own show... you know, the first part of season 4.

But I give OT credit. it had a much better clip show episode. The Cur Li manuver made sitting through the first 5 episodes again worth it.

[Kendamu]

I still think that's a very poor (not to mention overused) comparison.

Its overused because its true. Both the 1960s Batman series and the OT are silly, lighthearted, and corny compared to their source material counterparts. Both are very loose adaptions of comics. Both launched their respective properties into mainstream pop-culture. Both are looked down upon when it comes to trying to get their respective properties to be looked upon in a more serious light.

So, even if you don't like the comparison, its true. I don't mean it in an insulting way, either. I don't even mean it as being a bad thing! I just mean it as being the truth.

[MrPliggins]

I prefer the new to the old. Probably because I watched the hell out of the old series when I was a kid. I never have the urge to watch it anymore.

[Hero]

I shrug off the old toon myself. It has aged so badly. Like with Next Mutation I would not show any non-TMNT fans that series. 2K3 and Fast Forward all the way for me.

===HERO

[Tinuvielsdreams]

The OT is a fun series and has a special place in my heart and the NT has some great animation and represents turtles in a way I really like. I wouldn't say I prefer watching one over the other, I am glad to have both

[Darth Shredder]

I shrug off the old toon myself. It has aged so badly. Like with Next Mutation I would not show any non-TMNT fans that series. 2K3 and Fast Forward all the way for me.

===HERO

Fast Forward didn't have the TMNT essence for me. It was too gimmicky and cheap.

[AquaParade]

It depends on what point in the series you're talking about. For example, I prefer the first season of the OT over everything else in terms of animated TMNT. However, if I were given the choice between, say, Season 6 of the OT and Season 2 of 2k3, I'd definitely choose 2k3.

Exactly how I feel. Season one just had a special something for me. It felt so timeless, but the other ot seasons can't hold my interest these days. The new toon is more complex and deep, and I love it, but it doesn't have the classic feel of the old show for me.

[Buslady]

Not I. I do not include that as "real" TMNT...it's just some kiddie show. I used to watch it back then but today it's ...eh...

*waits for the tomatoes and rotten mangoes to be chucked*

[Darth Shredder]

All opinions are welcomed, Buslady.

Your Turtles universe would be a very dry and uninteresting place to me, but then again, so would this world if everyone thought exactly like I did.

[turkishproverb]

Its overused because its true. Both the 1960s Batman series and the OT are silly, lighthearted, and corny compared to their source material counterparts. Both are very loose adaptions of comics. Both launched their respective properties into mainstream pop-culture. Both are looked down upon when it comes to trying to get their respective properties to be looked upon in a more serious light.

So, even if you don't like the comparison, its true. I don't mean it in an insulting way, either. I don't even mean it as being a bad thing! I just mean it as being the truth.

But you used the term Campy, which has it's own connotations that don't really suit OT, for all of OT's problems.

[Kendamu]

But you used the term Campy, which has it's own connotations that don't really suit OT, for all of OT's problems.
And its true. Its not like the OT wasn't full of silliness and intentional clichés used for the sake of humor. That's what "campy" is. Its not like "campy" is a bad thing, but I would be a liar to say that the OT had little or no camp in it.

I think that's the problem. People think I mean something bad by the word "campy" when I don't. In all reality, "camp" is a form of sophisticated amusement that requires a decent understanding of the serious things being "camped up" or parodied before you can even really get the jokes being told.

[turkishproverb]

And I "meant" that you didn't use campy right. Not that your other terms were improperly used.

[Kendamu]

What're you talking about?

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Acamp%2Fcampy

I used "campy" right.

[TMNT-Leonardo]

I haven't really been keeping track of the New Series that much, but I still prefer the original series because of the charm it has. I don't really find it campy, because there are tons of other things that actually are campy.

[Kendamu]

Apparently, as long as "campy" is considered an insulting term, nobody's going to agree with me. So I guess I'l just have to spell it out everytime and just say, "Oh yeah, I liked the OT because it often contained a form of comedic parody where the cliché conventions of a dramatic form like adventure are deliberately exaggerated to the point of absurdity. Because of this, I found it funny and exciting simultaneously!"

[Krang]

Both the 1960s Batman series and the OT are silly, lighthearted, and corny compared to their source material counterparts. Both are very loose adaptions of comics. Both launched their respective properties into mainstream pop-culture. Both are looked down upon when it comes to trying to get their respective properties to be looked upon in a more serious light.
I still disagree due to the circumstances and timing regarding the comic series for each, as I mentioned last time this was brought up. If you want to continue debating this, please start a new thread, because we're getting off-topic here.

So, even if you don't like the comparison, its true. I don't mean it in an insulting way, either. I don't even mean it as being a bad thing! I just mean it as being the truth.
And its true. Its not like the OT wasn't full of silliness and intentional clichés used for the sake of humor. That's what "campy" is. Its not like "campy" is a bad thing, but I would be a liar to say that the OT had little or no camp in it.
No and no. These are your opinions, not facts. I stand by what I said earlier, meaning I disagree with your Batman comparison, and I believe the OT doesn't fit the definition of the word "campy." Neither of us are "right," though, since neither of those can be proven to be true or false. Let's just accept the fact that we have different opinions and move on.

Now let's please stop debating the definition of the word "campy" and get back on topic.

[turkishproverb]

Apparently, as long as "campy" is considered an insulting term, nobody's going to agree with me. So I guess I'l just have to spell it out everytime and just say, "Oh yeah, I liked the OT because it often contained a form of comedic parody where the cliché conventions of a dramatic form like adventure are deliberately exaggerated to the point of absurdity. Because of this, I found it funny and exciting simultaneously!"

What're you talking about?

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Acamp%2Fcampy

I used "campy" right.


Dictionary's are over simplistic when it comes to art. Try this:

Camp_(style) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_(style))


still not what is needed, but it's a start. I know what camp is. I've studied it. TMNT (OT) is, whatever else may be said, NOT camp.

[Drtooth]

I agree. It's not so much campy as playful.

Now, the real Campy TMNT product is Coming out of their Shells, and that Christmas movie.

Of course, the only version of TMNT I didn't like was Next Mutation, and even then, I liked it up until they added She who shall not be named.

Personally, it depends on the mood I'm in what I'd prefer to watch.

[Spitfire]

I thought it was all those lousy episodes where the turtles had to fight random aliens, and pretty much played like guest stars in their own show... you know, the first part of season 4.

But I give OT credit. it had a much better clip show episode. The Cur Li manuver made sitting through the first 5 episodes again worth it.

I actually liked season 4 quite a bit though they went a bit overboard. My whole issue with 2K3 is it spent so long trying to be a series it couldn't. It wanted to be an adult animated series the further it went on and that really bit it in the ass when it came time to do FF. The network didn't just ;et 2K3 have it they put a brick wall in it's path, let it hit the wall going 90, and gave it re constructional surgery.

I like FF so much because A) It reminded me of the old toon and B) It had parts that made me laugh and wasn't trying to expand past what it could be.

I don't mind a serious Ninja Turtles series, I mean turtles isn't really a serious property but taking it in a serious direction wouldn't be bad, as long as there isn't limitations. All the censored comic book adaptations and how incredibly boring and almost unwatchable the first nine episodes are before they fight Shredder really pissed me off and that's really the #1 reason 2K3 will never surpass the old toon for me. I also absolutely hated how Season 2 started, that whole arc was "eh" to me and the same thing with the alien invasion in Season 3. It was too long and repetitive.

I get mad when I watch a bad 2K3 episode because the series had some great animation. It makes me go "Man they could have spent that money making a different episode". I love FF's style and these new designs as well but the 2K3 animation looked great.

The old toon didn't, but it knew it didn't and it made fun of itself all the time. I don't know why but I just love stuff like that. Normally I'm all into watching more dramatic TV series but I have Millennium for that.

[Hero]

Fast Forward didn't have the TMNT essence for me. It was too gimmicky and cheap.

It took a while to find its feet and was a good series if dug deep into, especially with some of the irony that went in.

I think another Fast Forward was unpopular was because it just was'nt asked for, especially around a time when the Ninja Tribunal was not aired on TV and things skipped straight to FF.

I wonder if Fast Forward would have been more accepted somewhat if the Ninja Tribunal arc was publicised first.

===HERO

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I prefer the original toon to the new one. Partially because of nostalgia, watching the episodes now reminds me of when I was watching them as a kid. Another reason is because of its differences from the comics. It's a different take on the Turtles which can be interesting. Sometimes I'm not as motivated to watch the new cartoon because I know I've already read either the same story or a very similar one in the comic books.

The first movie to me is a bit different because it's such a blend of the cartoon and the comic.

[Drtooth]

I actually liked season 4 quite a bit though they went a bit overboard.

It would have been a bit better had they spaced the similar episodes out further. At least we got closure on the Adlintians... The only thing I really hated in the series was that part of the story. Seems like they borrowed heavily from a certain Disney movie.

The second half of Season 4 was much much better.

I think another Fast Forward was unpopular was because it just was'nt asked for, especially around a time when the Ninja Tribunal was not aired on TV and things skipped straight to FF.

I wonder if Fast Forward would have been more accepted somewhat if the Ninja Tribunal arc was publicised first.


I spoke my peace about it. And it seems to me that they had no direction and thought the show would go on longer than they thought it would. They spent so much time trying to build up to something that when the time came to expose it, the show ended. And it even seemed like something that would have worked as a subseries of the OT more than a darker version of the turtles. I enjoyed it somewhat, but it feels uneven in certain filler episodes.

[NameGoesHere1066]

I'm going to be a complete cop out and say that I prefere them both. the classic toon is what got me hooked on the turtles so it has a special place in my heart. But I find my self watching my 2k3 dvds more often than my old toon ones.

[Chaotix]

I liked the OT better just cause the voices weren't as cheesy as the NT plus the OT had more comedy(until seasons 8-10) than NT but that's my 2 cents.

[Darth Shredder]

I liked the OT better just cause the voices weren't as cheesy as the NT plus the OT had more comedy(until seasons 8-10) than NT but that's my 2 cents.

The comedy was nice, yes.