Hun in Mirage

[TristanHuwJones]

I've been dropping bits and pieces throughout my blog about this, but it's happening... hit the link below!

[DrSpengler]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

[TristanHuwJones]

Whoa! Fastest post in the universe!

[Buffy]

It's nice to see that Hun made it into the Mirage universe, can't wait to read that issue!

[Kendamu]

Something about that drawing of Hun reminds me of Metalocalypse (in a good way)...

Nice to see Hun coming to town.

Also: Spam it, Buffy! Your sig is watching me type again!

[Raph's Girl]

Oh that's neat that we're gonna get a bit of a background on Hun.... So his full name is Hunter Mason??? Kewl! Finally a full name for him. :D I like that name...Hunter Mason....nice strong name...for a villian anyways.

His tattoos are different from the animated stuff. He's got WAY more of em. Totally looks badass.

[Evenstar227]

Wicked! Hope he's given a better shake than in NT. Seems like he's just mashed in the toon wherever they could fit him. Nice to know Hun is short for Hunter...thought Shredder was calling him an endearment the first time I head him say that. :roll:

[Kendamu]

Wicked! Hope he's given a better shake than in NT. Seems like he's just mashed in the toon wherever they could fit him. Nice to know Hun is short for Hunter...thought Shredder was calling him an endearment the first time I head him say that. :roll:
Well, in this case, when Shredder is Krang you need to have someone else around to give pet names to.

[TristanHuwJones]

Oh that's neat that we're gonna get a bit of a background on Hun.... So his full name is Hunter Mason??? Kewl! Finally a full name for him. :D I like that name...Hunter Mason....nice strong name...for a villian anyways..

Yep, but not too much, I'm saving that, along with something that is hinted at by Hun in this, for another issue. We find out why he hasn't been mentioned before, how he and Casey are tied to each other. It's really about Casey and Hun. Mainly Hun though.

His tattoos are different from the animated stuff. He's got WAY more of em. Totally looks badass.

Wait 'til you see his back...

[Kendamu]

Woohoo! More Casey!

[TristanHuwJones]

Hope he's given a better shake than in NT. Seems like he's just mashed in the toon wherever they could fit him.

This Hun would snap the NT one like Bane did Batman.

[Roseangelo]

Sorry to say this Tristan, but I'm not on board for this. It's just not the sort of universe crossing that I'm a fan of.

[The Shelf]

On the other hand, I'm a total fan of this. As long as it's a somewhat different take on the character, I'm happy.

[PAAATE]

Sorry to say this Tristan, but I'm not on board for this. It's just not the sort of universe crossing that I'm a fan of.

C'mon, it's a character from TMNT :P

It's not like he will be the exact same character as in the cartoon

And it's not like you were disappointed every time Shredder was on-screen in the old show?

As long as you reinvent a character's personality I don't see how anyone can call it "universe crossing" :cry:

[Roseangelo]

And it's not like you were disappointed every time Shredder was on-screen in the old show?

No, because you couldn't have an old show (or new show or anything else) if you didn't use characters from the comic books. For me it's always been a one-way street: Stuff from the comics moves to the cartoon(s) and/or other things, but it never worked the other way around.

Along similar lines, I absolutely hated that there were Triceratons in the Raphael movie prequel comic and the Ancient One in the Leo prequel comic.

C'mon, it's a character from TMNT :P

It's not like he will be the exact same character as in the cartoon

As long as you reinvent a character's personality I don't see how anyone can call it "universe crossing" :cry:

Soooo... what's the point of him being Hun then? Call him Fred and I'm good with him.

I just think it unnecessarily muddies the lines between universes; boundaries that used to be extremely solid and well defined. More and more so they're slipping away. If you're going to have all these different universes that target different audiences and purposes, I just think it's important to keep those boundaries in place.

[Harukuro]

Wait 'til you see his back...

Does it have a turtle with two Xs for eyes? :P (Just kidding) But seriously wow...I didn't see this coming. I can't wait to find out more info on the story and what this Hun will be like. Oh and the blog entry itself was pretty funny. ;)

[Ninjinister]

No, because you couldn't have an old show (or new show or anything else) if you didn't use characters from the comic books. For me it's always been a one-way street: Stuff from the comics moves to the cartoon(s) and/or other things, but it never worked the other way around.



Tell that to DC. Harley Quinn and Mercy Graves were so popular that they not only made it into the comics, but they were also in a completely unrelated-to-the-DCAU cartoon afterwards.

[Galactus]

No, because you couldn't have an old show (or new show or anything else) if you didn't use characters from the comic books. For me it's always been a one-way street: Stuff from the comics moves to the cartoon(s) and/or other things, but it never worked the other way around.

What, you mean specificaly in TMNT? The jury is still out on how the Battle Nexus will pan out in current main book and the appearance of the Ninja Tribunal and the Acient One is in the Leo prequel is so minor it's not even worth getting worked up about.

If you're speaking generaly then there are tons of examples of characters and themes from other media crossing back into the original comics succesfuly. Do you think fans of Firestar care the character came from the Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends TV show? Or how about X-23 or Harley Quin? it was because they were both popular characters in the cartoons that Marvel and DC decided to put them into the comics.

I absolutely hated that there were Triceratons in the Raphael movie prequel comic

Why wouldn't Triceratons exist in movieverse? Like you said it all comes from the comics, right? In your own words "Stuff from the comics moves to the cartoon(s) and/or other things".

It's not like the Triceratons have always been exclusive to the comics anyway, they were in an episode of the old toon, some of the old video games and there was even an action figure in the original toyline. They're pretty much a staple of the franchise.

I just think it unnecessarily muddies the lines between universes; boundaries that used to be extremely solid and well defined. More and more so they're slipping away. If you're going to have all these different universes that target different audiences and purposes, I just think it's important to keep those boundaries in place.

Well for years I've heard people complain that Laird ignores characters from the old toon and Archie comic. Surely now that he's either relaxing his stance or whatver this is giving fans what they want.

For me personaly I understand that the likes of Bebop and Rocksteady should really remain in the 80's and 90's but I've always thought it was slightly closed minded to ignore characters like say Armaggon who Laird had a hand in creating and wouldn't feel that out of place in Mirage or current cartoon.

It's no secret that the Mirage turtles have a limited rogues gallery. While I would like new bad guys I don't see the problem with introducing villians that have already proven themselves in other media. At very least its better than random aliens that Tales seems to have a lot of.

[PAAATE]

Soooo... what's the point of him being Hun then? Call him Fred and I'm good with him.

No, I didn't mean 100% reinvention

Stick to the core of the character, but reinvent him in a way that fits that specific universe...

I won't complain until the comics are adapting TV-episodes.. The day that happens I'll probably stop buying the comics and just download them...

But I don't think, or hope, that'll ever happen :P

At very least its better than random aliens that Tales seems to have a lot of.

Yup

[Kendamu]

Random aliens: The loophole in "no more mutants."

[Roseangelo]

What, you mean specificaly in TMNT? The jury is still out on how the Battle Nexus will pan out in current main book and the appearance of the Ninja Tribunal and the Acient One is in the Leo prequel is so minor it's not even worth getting worked up about.

I mean specifically in TMNT. I don't follow any of those other series close enough to have an opinion on what they've done either way. I hate all of Volume 4, so the Battle Nexus crap is just another part of that and I don't care what happens with it. I wouldn't say I was "worked up" about the Ancient One bit, but it remains my opinion that I did not like it.

Why wouldn't Triceratons exist in movieverse?

But why the hell would they exist? If effort were made to establish them as part of their universe, I wouldn't care so much (although I've personally grown tired of the Triceratons in general in recent years). But in that book without explanation at all, not only do Triceratons exist, but the Turtles are hunting them in the sewers. It's just a big WTF? for me.

For me personaly I understand that the likes of Bebop and Rocksteady should really remain in the 80's and 90's but I've always thought it was slightly closed minded to ignore characters like say Armaggon who Laird had a hand in creating and wouldn't feel that out of place in Mirage or current cartoon.

Armaggon is one of my all-time favorite characters, so it would be hard for me to say "No" to anything involving him, but I do think I'd have to do just that for him appearing in Mirage. I would have been ok with him showing up in the current cartoon if it involved adapting one or more stories with him from the Archie books. I don't think I'd support him just showing up out of the blue.

It's no secret that the Mirage turtles have a limited rogues gallery. While I would like new bad guys I don't see the problem with introducing villians that have already proven themselves in other media. At very least its better than random aliens that Tales seems to have a lot of.

I do agree that we need new/more villains, but I stand by my opinion that bringing in Hun is not the best move (and like I said, call him Fred and I'm cool with him).

Moreso than just creating new villains, though, I think it's important to give the TMNT an actual purpose to fight for. They've been kind of wandering aimlessly ever since the end of City At War, which brought to an end the purpose they fought for/against up until that point. Nothing new was ever established after that. Laird seems hesitant to brand them as crime fighters, which I can understand because they never were crime fighters to start with, but a comic about ninjas who don't ninja (for example, Volume 4) is damn boring.

[TristanHuwJones]

Sorry to say this Tristan, but I'm not on board for this. It's just not the sort of universe crossing that I'm a fan of.

I can understand that. I think the way you feel about this is probably the same way I feel about bringing someone like Cudley Cowlick into the Mirage U. I'm not a fan of the idea, as I think the Archie continuity is great, but I think it's better as it's own entity (that said, I could see something happening where Savanti Romero forces a universal/dimensional crossover).

The way I saw it was that a character like Hun fits perfectly into the Mirage Universe. Initially I had him go by another name with a few slight alterations, but I started thinking that if I used that character, people would start drawing comparisons to Hun, which would be fair enough but I thought, and Peter thought the same, if the character was so similar, why not just make it Hun but play by the new set of rules.

Give him a chance though, as he's a big piece to an even bigger puzzle. I've spoken to some who think each universe should remain it's own, which I'm completely cool with, I just ask that you check it out when it comes and give it a chance. To me, Hun is a solid character, but in all honesty, I think he has a lot more potential than what he's being used for in the show.

He's going to be similar, but at the same time very much his own. Ultimately, I'm not out to mess this book up, I want to tell good, solid stories, stories I'd want to see as a fan, and stories I'd want to tell as a writer, but I know that ultimately, not everyone is going to see eye-to-eye. All I ask is that you give it a chance ;)

[TristanHuwJones]

No, because you couldn't have an old show (or new show or anything else) if you didn't use characters from the comic books. For me it's always been a one-way street: Stuff from the comics moves to the cartoon(s) and/or other things, but it never worked the other way around.

But that said, how much of the cartoon have we seen cross over? There was the Battle Nexus, which is similar in name and concept, but even that is yet to lay all its cards on the table.

Along similar lines, I absolutely hated that there were Triceratons in the Raphael movie prequel comic and the Ancient One in the Leo prequel comic.

This I admittedly found somewhat jarring, and for the same reasons as you. They were seemingly dropped in there, but if you've managed to see them coloured and in the Titan books, they make more sense as something for kids to say "Oh! Triceratons/Ancient One! Cool!" (although the Raph story was surprisingly full-on thematically).



Soooo... what's the point of him being Hun then? Call him Fred and I'm good with him.

Honestly, he's only called Hun probably 15% of the time. Mason 70% of the time, Bastard 10% and Son of a Bitch 5% :P

I just think it unnecessarily muddies the lines between universes; boundaries that used to be extremely solid and well defined. More and more so they're slipping away. If you're going to have all these different universes that target different audiences and purposes, I just think it's important to keep those boundaries in place.

As I said, hopefully you'll give it a chance. I wanted to be sure there were some very defining differences between the two, and that he wasn't just "thrown in there". There's a very logical reason as to why he comes back and where he's been, but as I said, he's a very big piece in a very big puzzle and it all stems out of #36.

Does it have a turtle with two Xs for eyes? :P (Just kidding) But seriously wow...I didn't see this coming. I can't wait to find out more info on the story and what this Hun will be like. Oh and the blog entry itself was pretty funny. ;)

Think Red Dragon.

I'm going to keep the story pretty firmly under lock and key :P. All you need to know for now is that there's a very heavy focus on Casey and Hun and how their pasts are tied. Some very important glimpses into Casey's past too.


For me personaly I understand that the likes of Bebop and Rocksteady should really remain in the 80's and 90's but I've always thought it was slightly closed minded to ignore characters like say Armaggon who Laird had a hand in creating and wouldn't feel that out of place in Mirage or current cartoon.

I actually have an idea for those two that I'm positive would work. Slightly controversial, but if I could write ANY two characters, Bebop and Rocksteady would be them.

However, I think Armaggon and certain Archie characters have a number of limitations on them when it comes to the Mirage Universe that aren't as much of a worry in the Archie books (namely the urban realism of the Mirage books - for the most part). You could very possibly do something with them in a post Vol. 4 environment, but ultimately it could end up as a total rehash of what's come before without too much variation to the character (which I admit, is a stance that could be taken with Hun).

It's no secret that the Mirage turtles have a limited rogues gallery. While I would like new bad guys I don't see the problem with introducing villians that have already proven themselves in other media. At very least its better than random aliens that Tales seems to have a lot of.

This I agree with. I think Hun is a proven character, and the similarities between the first few seasons of the new toon and the comics allow for a relatively smooth transition. But even though he's a proven character, he still needs to prove himself in the Mirage books, which is what I intend on doing.
The grander scheme of things also involves several new villains. Hun will have ties to the Razorbacks, and a number of new villains will come into play.

I mean specifically in TMNT. I don't follow any of those other series close enough to have an opinion on what they've done either way. I hate all of Volume 4, so the Battle Nexus crap is just another part of that and I don't care what happens with it. I wouldn't say I was "worked up" about the Ancient One bit, but it remains my opinion that I did not like it.

What other universe crossover does that leave for this then Rose? As you said, you hate Vol.4, so hating the Battle Nexus was going to happen. This is pretty far removed from Vol.4 (extremely removed).



But why the hell would they exist? If effort were made to establish them as part of their universe, I wouldn't care so much (although I've personally grown tired of the Triceratons in general in recent years). But in that book without explanation at all, not only do Triceratons exist, but the Turtles are hunting them in the sewers. It's just a big WTF? for me.



[QUOTE=Roseangelo;625860]Armaggon is one of my all-time favorite characters, so it would be hard for me to say "No" to anything involving him, but I do think I'd have to do just that for him appearing in Mirage. I would have been ok with him showing up in the current cartoon if it involved adapting one or more stories with him from the Archie books. I don't think I'd support him just showing up out of the blue.

Again, no-one is showing up out of the blue here. I can't stand it when characters just show up. I'm also not a huge fan of the "monster-of-the-week" idea (outside of the X-Files).

I do agree that we need new/more villains, but I stand by my opinion that bringing in Hun is not the best move (and like I said, call him Fred and I'm cool with him).

But I call him Fred, and the similarities are glaring, people start asking why isn't it just Hun, which is exactly what I said after I sat back with the final outline.

Moreso than just creating new villains, though, I think it's important to give the TMNT an actual purpose to fight for. They've been kind of wandering aimlessly ever since the end of City At War, which brought to an end the purpose they fought for/against up until that point. Nothing new was ever established after that. Laird seems hesitant to brand them as crime fighters, which I can understand because they never were crime fighters to start with, but a comic about ninjas who don't ninja (for example, Volume 4) is damn boring.

Trust me, this is EXACTLY what I hope to address. A point will come where Hun and a number of other (soon to be) key players will essentially say "No more freaks", and the **** will hit the fan. But like you said, this can't just happen... it's all part of the puzzle ;)

I guess it might not be a good idea mentioning that he appears in #59 and is referenced in two other issues.

[oldmanwinters]

I tend to agree with Rose that I like the TMNT universes separate and distinct instead of trying to merge everything else into pre-existing universes. The Mirage comics and the movies shouldn't have to borrow from the 2k3 toon, though it is fun to see stuff like Triceratons in Raph's prequel and Shredder's 2k3 armor in Volume 4. Still, it just doesn't seem like the Shredder of the TMNT movie is the same Shredder of the 1990 and 1991 films. And it doesn't seem like the "alternative" Shredder in Volume 4 would be as immediately recognizable to Leo as the original Shredder the Turtles fought and killed (twice! or is it thrice?) in Volume 1.

That said, I would like to see more "what if" universe crossovers like the OT turtles and the NT turtles. But I also like the fact that somethings remain the same no matter how much some things change.

There, was that answer ambivalent enough?

[Roseangelo]

I appreciate your passion about this Tristan, but it's ok for people to have differing opinions on things. And there's no reason to assume that this is going to be the first ever TMNT comic I don't read. 8)

[Raph's Girl]

I'm going to keep the story pretty firmly under lock and key :P. All you need to know for now is that there's a very heavy focus on Casey and Hun and how their pasts are tied. Some very important glimpses into Casey's past too.

So he's either an old friend of Casey's, related to Casey in some way (or related to Moose Mason from the Archie comics...come on...same last name, basically the same build...hey...it could happen), or he killed Casey's dad (which is what he did in the current toon).

[TristanHuwJones]

I appreciate your passion about this Tristan, but it's ok for people to have differing opinions on things. And there's no reason to assume that this is going to be the first ever TMNT comic I don't read. 8)

:lol: Thanks Rose, and I know that, I'm just giving you my reasons the same as you're giving yours. I'm totally cool with it. I'm going to be on the edge of my seat to see what your response to the final product is now though ;)

[TristanHuwJones]

So he's either an old friend of Casey's, related to Casey in some way (or related to Moose Mason from the Archie comics...come on...same last name, basically the same build...hey...it could happen), or he killed Casey's dad (which is what he did in the current toon).

It could be any one of those things. Or all of them. I know that if you switched a few of the words around in that post regarding the theories you'd be close to the mark :P

[Ninjinister]

It could be any one of those things. Or all of them. I know that if you switched a few of the words around in that post regarding the theories you'd be close to the mark :P

He IS Casey's dad.

[PAAATE]

It could be any one of those things. Or all of them. I know that if you switched a few of the words around in that post regarding the theories you'd be close to the mark :P

Casey killed his dad!? :o

Or Casey killed Archie? :goof:

[TristanHuwJones]

Or Casey killed Archie?

****! I didn't think anyone would get that so soon!

[PAAATE]

****! I didn't think anyone would get that so soon!

Yeah, it was kinda unpredictable :P :roll:

[oldmanwinters]

Random aliens: The loophole in "no more mutants."

I'll always prefer mutants to aliens!:evilgrin:

[TristanHuwJones]

I think aliens are fine, I just think there can be too much. I got kind of tired of seeing Triceratons in the new cartoon. By the time they decided to invade Earth, we'd seen way too much of them. I know Dan's plan for Tales is to include as much variety in the stories as possible, so there'll be alien tales, Foot tales, Duck Tales (woo-oo!).

[oldmanwinters]

Duck Tales (woo-oo!).

:oOh, man, I think I would special order that crossover tommorrow.:o

It's actually happened before officially, if you can believe it!

Ever seen the Cartoon All-Stars, Tristan?
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[TristanHuwJones]

...unfortunately, yes.

[oldmanwinters]

...unfortunately, yes.

I think I wore out my local library's VHS copy since I watched it so much as a kid.:lol:

[TristanHuwJones]

Did yours start off with that terrible McDonalds ad?

[Roseangelo]

...unfortunately, yes.

There we go. I'll let you diss on Cartoon All-Stars, but I get to not like Hun being in the comics. :D

[oldmanwinters]

Did yours start off with that terrible McDonalds ad?

Hmm, I mostly remember the "Love lifted me" add for a children's hospital (or was it Ronald McDonald House?). I seem to recall it was associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Maybe it was connected to the Ronald McDonald House after all. Help my fading memory out!

Actually, the George and Barbara Bush introduction sealed the deal for me that this presentation was pretty significant if the Leader of the Free World (and the First Lady) put their seal of approval on it!

[TristanHuwJones]

There we go. I'll let you diss on Cartoon All-Stars, but I get to not like Hun being in the comics. :D

:lol: I was amazed when it first aired here in AU. Mikey and Slimer in the same cartoon was almost too much. Unfortunately, having seen it within the past two years, it is too much!

[Roseangelo]

:lol: I was amazed when it first aired here in AU. Mikey and Slimer in the same cartoon was almost too much. Unfortunately, having seen it within the past two years, it is too much!

I never said I thought it was good. ;) It does have its own level of epic-ness, though.

And I don't know how it worked in Australia, but over here it was EVENT viewing. It aired simultaneously on all three networks. Hell, I probably spent half the show switching between all three just because that part of it intrigued me so much.

[oldmanwinters]

It was an epic event!

I doubt it ended up keeping any kids off drugs who wouldn't have otherwise stayed away. But what other cartoon crossover could ever boast of such a vast diversity of characters from different studio companies coming together with their proper voice actors? I guessed it helped that there was already a lot of overlap among voice actors in the various shows.

That's the sort of Tales of TMNT I want to see. Maybe not the Muppet Babies and Ducktales, but a full on TMNT multi-verse smorgasbord!

[TristanHuwJones]

Yeah, they did exactly the same thing here I'm pretty sure, because each network had a different cartoon showing at the time. Channel 9 had Ghostbusters, 7 had TMNT and Ducktales, 10 had Muppet Babies and so forth...

[twopinacoladas]

I remember seeing that cartoon allstars thing in school and possibly at home on tv. I remember seeing it twice anyway. I am fairly open to having Hun in the comics although part of me would rather not have him in. I dont hate the idea it could be interesting. I know Peter likes the character and may have hinted at the possibility on one of the 2k3 video interviews he did if i remember correctly (I could be wrong on that part tho).

[odupianist]

I am the terror that flaps in the night....

anyways, I'm not against Hun being in the comics, but I feel that it is more of a cop out on the writers' part (no offense guys). I guess I just want more original ideas. I wasn't a fan of "The Decider" but I was glad to see a new fresh villian/idea.

[TristanHuwJones]

Is it a cop out if I wanted to use him though...?

[Roseangelo]

Is it a cop out if I wanted to use him though...?

Yeah, I would have to agree with odupianist.

My honest answer to this:
But I call him Fred, and the similarities are glaring, people start asking why isn't it just Hun, which is exactly what I said after I sat back with the final outline.

Is that if the similarities are so glaring, the character should be something different all together.

Sorry... :ohwell:

[TristanHuwJones]

No, don't be, it's a very valid point. Ultimately, I wanted to use Hun. I had a character modeled on specifically on him, which I knew worked and exactly how he'd fit in to the grander scheme of things. The reason I didn't go with Hun straight out of the gate was because I wasn't sure where Mirage stood on toon characters vs comic characters. When Pete suggested we try changing the character to Hun it was basically a greenlight for me to do what I wanted to do. Personally, I would rather be able to use the original character than a copy. Essentially, this character is exactly what I pitched to begin with, and he would've been the same even if we didn't give him the "Hun" nickname and make it official. His name from the beginning was Hunter Mason, which would serve as a nod to Hun, but also give the character a very strong name. I just ask you to reserve judgement until the book comes out. That's all. If it turns you around, awesome, but if not then it's a shame and you can punch me at SDCC 09.:D

[Roseangelo]

but if not then it's a shame and you can punch me at SDCC 09.:D

Heehee - I won't be forgetting you said that. :D ;)

[Raph's Girl]

No, don't be, it's a very valid point. Ultimately, I wanted to use Hun.

I tend to reserve judgement till I see the actual product. I know that Pete said recently (I think it was on his blog) that he'd been wanting Hun to appear in the comics.

As for crossovers. He also said he'd love for a TMNT meets Batman or Wolverine or Spider-Man. But if they did it the way the X-Men/Star Trek books were done...that would be kewl. I LOVE Star Trek/X-Men, Second Contact, and Planet X. Those were done awesomely.

A TMNT/Superman/Savage Dragon one would be kewl. Savage has teamed up with both several times so he could be the intermediate (I love the Savage Dragon/Superman and the Savage Dragon/TMNT comics).

[Spike Spiegel]

I always wanted this to happen because i think Hun fits perfectly with the post-Shredder Foot Clan of the comic. They're all about espionage and secret...ninja things, right? I'm guessing he ends up in some sort of leadership position.

[CudleyCowlick]

I'm down with this. He's a good character, and I'm sure he could work in the Mirage Universe. Definitely looks awesome.

[odupianist]

Don't worry Tristan, I'm reserving judgement. It is a bit of a cop out, but hey, who knows, it may or may not work. I hope it does work. I guess I'm just tired of seeing recycled ideas every so often. That's why I liked Tales 48, it might not have been the fullest story or as good as it could have been, but it was still something new which is why I liked it.

[Coola Yagami]

The only real question is... when should we expect Bishop into the story?

[TristanHuwJones]

I think Hun might be as far as it goes. I have ideas as to how he could work, but I'll be totally honest with you when I say that I hate Bishop. I guess really, when I say I have ideas as to how I could make him work, it's really just me saying "for me to like him, this is how it would go".

[VaughnMichael]

I hate Bishop also that's what makes him such a great villain.

[TristanHuwJones]

Our hatreds of him must be on two different levels of th hatred department store... ;)

[CJStyles]

I don't mind the blending of universes and just want a freakin good story. Which I'm sure it will be

[VaughnMichael]

Our hatreds of him must be on two different levels of th hatred department store... ;)
It's ok, I like Fast Forward also and almost everyone here hates that to. *shruggs*

[TristanHuwJones]

It's ok, I like Fast Forward also and almost everyone here hates that to. *shruggs*

I loved FF! I wrote some FF stuff. If it weren't for the brevity of the writing experience I probably would have enjoyed writing those stories a little more than the Mirage books (but the Mirage books will always win out when it comes to the final product)!

[TristanHuwJones]

I don't mind the blending of universes and just want a freakin good story. Which I'm sure it will be

There will be elements people will expect, but I'm hoping there's a lot in there people won't...

Thanks for the faith though CJ!

[Jester]

Indeed that's what matters. If a character works in the other universes fine, but the story better be top notch.

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm actually more satisfied with this story than I was with #36 and #50. There's an emotional thrust to it that I'm hoping people dig. It also follows up on some of the things mentioned throughout #36, and starts the ball rolling for the rest of my stories next year, but at the same time, I think it's fairly well contained (at least, as much as Tales #36 was).

[Andrew NDB]

I'll check it out with an open mind, of course, but like Rose I'm pretty fundamentally against reverse-polinating the Mirage universe with things from the children's spinoffs.

I do like the Bane comparison... I could see such a character working in Mirage. It doesn't hurt that I'm a huge Bane fan. :) And of course if Laird is over your shoulder advising you to go ahead and do Hun... what are you going to say?

If it were me I'd do a Hun-like character, taking things the things that "work" about him in the 4Kids toons and developing him into someone new entirely... though still leaving people with enough that they would be thinking, "Yeah, this guy is kind of the Mirage equivalent of Hun."

It's just, when you actually go ahead and give him the name Hun it seems like you're kind of automatically forcing all sorts of comparisons between him and the toon version... which isn't fair to the character you're trying to create.

My $.02.

[TristanHuwJones]

He's of far less moral fibre than Bane, trust me.

Again, I can see where both you and Rose are coming from, and while part of me dug the idea of having a Hun equivalent, the similarities were so striking that I, like Peter, was constantly thinking as I was writing the outline: "I should just make it Hun." And again, the original character WAS modeled off Hun.

Good point on the comparisons too, but if the character I'm creating essentially is Hun, I'd rather have readers make those comparisons than have people say "he's a rip off of Hun, why not just make him Hun?"

Hopefully, people will come away thinking "Man(/Woman)! Imagine if Hun were like that in the cartoon!"

[CJStyles]

I don't mind a few similarities between the toon and Mirage's version, but I'd like to see a fresh spin, which you said we'd see. Being a fan and writing fan fictions I'm a sucker for taking establish characters and putting spins on them or changing their origins and what not. I'm curious to get my hands on this comic tough. I still need to get "To Serve and Protect" (broke and haven't started my job yet).

I'm curious to see how Hun will tie in to the upcoming stories

[TristanHuwJones]

There are elements being kept, because I think there are elements to Hun's past in particular that work exceptionally well, but even those elements will have a slightly more in depth twist to them. Like Serve And Protect (when you get round to checking it out) there will be some reading between the lines, because I love speculating when I read something and I don't think any writer should take his audiences intelligence for granted and have to really spell things out, but it's all in place. I've also tried to make him something of a wildcard for Casey. There are elements of Casey as a character that I don't think have ever really been looked at properly, and I'm using Hun to try and show new sides to Casey, or push the lesser seen sides.

I'm also a big fan of fan fiction (well, good fanfiction, I've seen a lot of bad fan fiction, and some really disturbing fan fiction as well), but I don't want this to read like fan fiction, so hopefully it won't!

[CJStyles]

I'm sure it won't. And I agree, I have read some crazy fan fics and some bad ones..

[odupianist]

Tristan, I'm interested in hearing why you hate Bishop so much, and not in the way Vaughn does.

[TristanHuwJones]

I got very tired, very quickly of Bishop. The same way I grew tired of the Shredder. I didn't mind him when he first came on the scene, I thought he was a neat new villain to throw into the mix, but eventually it was ALL Bishop. He became the new Shredder. The more I found out about Bishop, the less I liked him. The fact that he was "ageless", the cloning thing, the obsession, the ninja-skills. I think he worked perfectly in FF, and I enjoyed him in that to be honest, but I think it was mainly a case of overkill, for me at least, in the 2k3 series. Too much, too soon. There were some really great moments where I thought "if he was more like this all the time I wouldn't mind him".
I think he works great as a reluctant ally/sometimes villain.

Ultimately it could just be that he reminds me too much of Agent Smith from the Matrix movies... I hate those films.

[VaughnMichael]

Ultimately it could just be that he reminds me too much of Agent Smith from the Matrix movies... I hate those films.
Finally I'm not alone in my hate of the Matrix movies! lol:lol:

[TristanHuwJones]

I hate them with the fury of a thousand territorial baboons on heat dude. I was kind of enjoying the first one until that superman bit right at the end. Then I hated it.:dead:

[VaughnMichael]

I hate them with the fury of a thousand territorial baboons on heat dude. I was kind of enjoying the first one until that superman bit right at the end. Then I hated it.:dead:
lol well I mostly don't like them because I think Keanu Reeves is a terrible actor.

[The Big Bad]

I got very tired, very quickly of Bishop. The same way I grew tired of the Shredder. I didn't mind him when he first came on the scene, I thought he was a neat new villain to throw into the mix, but eventually it was ALL Bishop. He became the new Shredder. The more I found out about Bishop, the less I liked him. The fact that he was "ageless", the cloning thing, the obsession, the ninja-skills. I think he worked perfectly in FF, and I enjoyed him in that to be honest, but I think it was mainly a case of overkill, for me at least, in the 2k3 series. Too much, too soon. There were some really great moments where I thought "if he was more like this all the time I wouldn't mind him".
I think he works great as a reluctant ally/sometimes villain.

While I won't disagree with your assesment of the guy, it seems to me that, given this and previous comments on the Triceratons (you mentioned finding them tiring after their first appearance), it takes very little for a character to become over-used in your eyes. Sure, Bishop became prominent very quickly after his introduction, but over-used? I just don't see it. The guy appeared in nine episodes (most of them comprising the invasion arc) in season 3, eight in season 4, and three episodes on both Seasons 5 and 6--twenty three out of ninety episodes. Prominent? "ALL Bishop"? I'd say no.

But anyways, back to the topic: Hun in the comics? Cool; I'm glad to see that he's made Canon Immigrant status, and am optimistic that he'll be done justice. Still, I hope that the two incarnations are kept distinct and separate; I don't want to learn while watching season 8 of the cartoon that Original Flava Hun's real name is also Hunter Mason. I'm also (somewhat irrationally) that Hunter's superior standing on the canonicity scale (Mirage comic books > 4Kids cartoon) will somehow diminish the original character seem like the lesser version--still, that's somewhat inevitable; I'd rather that happen than Hun not being used.

And out of curiousity, how do you feel is the Original Flava Hun not being done justice in the 'toon? I know he's grown less prominent as time has gone by (although it seems like that will be reversed with Back to the Sewers), I've liked the low-key progression of the character since season 3 and feel that more prominence would be a disservice, since I feel any long Purple Dragons arc would feel too much like a rehash of the Shredder's.

[TristanHuwJones]

While I won't disagree with your assesment of the guy, it seems to me that, given this and previous comments on the Triceratons (you mentioned finding them tiring after their first appearance), it takes very little for a character to become over-used in your eyes. Sure, Bishop became prominent very quickly after his introduction, but over-used? I just don't see it. The guy appeared in nine episodes (most of them comprising the invasion arc) in season 3, eight in season 4, and three episodes on both Seasons 5 and 6--twenty three out of ninety episodes. Prominent? "ALL Bishop"? I'd say no.

Fair call, as I said, a lot of my dislike for the character probably stems back to the Agent Smith thing ;) And you know how it is when you don't like something, it seems to dominate whatever it's part of, no matter how good the good is?

I'll be honest too, I think the thing with him being the Rat King kinda hacked at me too. I wouldn't've minded it if it was some other hapless idiot that Bishop screwed over (which would've made Bishop a much more sinister character), rather than Bishop being rather ego-maniacal and creating a super human race in his image.

As I said, there are a lot of things that I thought were cool about the character, but I think the execution of certain plot points revolving around him could've been a lot better, and would have enhanced the character indefinitely (the Rat King example being one).

It's not so much that I get tired quickly of characters or aspects, it's when there's too much in one go, almost like an overdose, that I get wary. I was fine with the Triceratons, but I think having Space Invaders and World's Collide be such a fast and furious thing and have it happen relatively early was what made me lean against it. Sure, there were some decent sized arcs between the last Triceraton story and these ones, but personally, I feel it would've been better to have it AFTER Bishop was introduced and just prior to the Ninja Tribunal.


But anyways, back to the topic: Hun in the comics? Cool; I'm glad to see that he's made Canon Immigrant status, and am optimistic that he'll be done justice. Still, I hope that the two incarnations are kept distinct and separate; I don't want to learn while watching season 8 of the cartoon that Original Flava Hun's real name is also Hunter Mason. I'm also (somewhat irrationally) that Hunter's superior standing on the canonicity scale (Mirage comic books > 4Kids cartoon) will somehow diminish the original character seem like the lesser version--still, that's somewhat inevitable; I'd rather that happen than Hun not being used.

Hun's intro to the Mirage Universe serves a very distinct purpose, at least in the stories I'm planning (and telling) next year (and hopefully beyond). Hopefully, as things go on, the two Huns will be distinctly different, but at the same time, not so much that one completely outweighs the other (as you said). Think about the similarities and differences between characters that appear in both the comics and the cartoons. There are some very distinct differences, but when you strip them right back, they're essentially the same person.

The other thing is that you're not going to get all of Hun in this issue. He's going to be appearing again. I don't want to slam you with too much character development in one issue (goes back to what I said before). He's part of a larger puzzle, which will probably start to become apparent when other characters show up (one does in Hun's intro).

And out of curiousity, how do you feel is the Original Flava Hun not being done justice in the 'toon? I know he's grown less prominent as time has gone by (although it seems like that will be reversed with Back to the Sewers), I've liked the low-key progression of the character since season 3 and feel that more prominence would be a disservice, since I feel any long Purple Dragons arc would feel too much like a rehash of the Shredder's.

I think he's being done justice in the cartoon, I think he's working fine (though I hate seeing him getting screwed over by the Shredder :lol:). But he's a character that, if you removed the boundaries of the target audience, you could do so much more with. There are stories I have planned with Hun that you probably couldn't do in a Saturday morning cartoon. There's an aspect to the Turtle universe that has never really been properly explored, revolving around the criminal element of NYC after City at War. Where have all the other big syndicates been while the Shredder and the Foot were dominant? Where was the mob? What happened to the Purple Dragons? What happens to the territory the Foot held now that Karai has reformed them? We know that there was a heavy gang presence in New York... what happened?

And on the Purple Dragon arc: it can definitely be done. With the Shredder, it was all about the Turtles, Splinter and the Foot. Casey and April were just ancillary characters caught in the crossfire.
You throw Hun into the mix, the character focus shifts. The turtles are still the core characters of the book, but the story focus is on these other characters.
You're going to see that the encounter in issue #36 has had some definite repercussions, especially with Leonardo. Consequences are a big part of the Turtles mythology, and all the stories I've got coming along are consequences of something, and will have consequences themselves.

[Raph's Girl]

lol well I mostly don't like them because I think Keanu Reeves is a terrible actor.

Keanu Reeves acts??? Is that what he's attempting to do??? I don't like him either and I despise the Matrix movies. The first one bored me so I changed the channel....Yeah that's right...I've never seen the ending :P

I LOVE LOOOVE Animatrix but regular Matrix is meh. To me Keanu is still the long haired hippy of Bill and Ted's Adventures.

[Andrew NDB]

Strictly out of curiosity, but what did you hate about Neo doing the Superman at the end of Matrix 1?

[TristanHuwJones]

At the time the Matrix came out, it was being billed as this big 5 star action movie that was smart. The amount of hype this thing was getting, particularly because it was filmed here, was ridiculous. That made me wary.
Anyway I saw this, and thought okay, he's doing all this crazy ****, he's the master of the matrix, cool. It was all well within the boundaries of the believability set at the time (remember, this was before sequels), UNTIL that moment. Why shoot out of the phone booth Superman style? If he had've just walked away in slow-mo, I wouldn't've cared, but that came totally out of the blue and left me scratching my head. Why did that happen? Of course, later, I find that the sequels are happening and the sequels come out and it all makes sense, but at the time, a webcomic version of me would have a big WTF?! floating above its head.
I guess ultimately, I was going in looking for anything not to like about this movie. About two thirds the way in I was coming around and starting to enjoy it, but that Superman thing just yanked me straight out of the movie I'd just been watching and turned it into something else entirely.

I saw the second Matrix and thought it was terrible. Never even bothered with the third.

I DID really enjoy most of the Animatrix...

[Roseangelo]

I fell asleep when I saw the Matrix... and that was in one of those Cinema Cafe places, so I actually laid down on a bench seat. :lol:

[TristanHuwJones]

I fell asleep during the second one. That whole stick sequence with all the Smith's looked atrocious.

[Roseangelo]

I fell asleep during the second one. That whole stick sequence with all the Smith's looked atrocious.

While I technically saw the second movie, I couldn't tell you anything about what actually happened.

[TristanHuwJones]

Yeah, the whole thing was a bit of a blur. I just remember two dudes with switchblade razors and a lot of painfully obvious CGI. Still, there are a tonne of people out there that really dig the Matrix, which I can respect. Mind you, people complain about Star Wars being a cash-in franchise...

[Ninjinister]

Bishop was the opposite to me. I didn't start to like him UNTIL I learned more about him, knew what made him tick, why he was the way he was.

[Andrew NDB]

Revolutions was much better than Reloaded and was actually fairly epic.

The problem with Matrix 2 and 3 is that it really is like one movie that is somehow stretched to two films... you could literally chop tons of scenes out of both films and come up with a single movie that is very, very good. On their own such as they are, however, they're pretty thin and meandering.

[TristanHuwJones]

When I saw the ending to part 2, I swore right there and then that I wouldn't waste my time or money on the 3rd.

[Andrew NDB]

It reminded me of Back to the Future 2's ending. Only... with less happening in the actual movie.

[TristanHuwJones]

Man, I remember when that came out, I don't think I'd been more excited to see anything! I'm talkin' Dark Knight/Phantom Menace anticipation. I also didn't feel like I'd wasted my time watching BttF2...

[The Big Bad]

It's not so much that I get tired quickly of characters or aspects, it's when there's too much in one go, almost like an overdose, that I get wary. I was fine with the Triceratons, but I think having Space Invaders and World's Collide be such a fast and furious thing and have it happen relatively early was what made me lean against it. Sure, there were some decent sized arcs between the last Triceraton story and these ones, but personally, I feel it would've been better to have it AFTER Bishop was introduced and just prior to the Ninja Tribunal.

Okay, that’s…interesting. Given that the Triceraton invasion provides the thrust that drives the rest of the series, I’m curious to hear what you would have done instead. I mean, there were still several comic book stories left to adapt, but nothing that really provided a clear structure or narrative—without anything to really shake the status quo up, I feel the series would have fallen into stagnation.

Personally, I think the Triceraton invasion arc is the best story the cartoon has done so far. It’s suitably epic without feeling unwieldy or out of place. It brought a lot disparate characters together, introduced some new ones (Bishop being the biggie, but also brought together the new Justice Force) and gave them all precisely as much screen time as they needed. It moved stories forward: not only did it give the Foot some direction, but it also—finally—got April and Casey together; plus, it destroyed the masquerade, which is a gutsy move and really opened the series up. Plus, I felt that the writers did a really good job of dealing with the consequences—something most shows usually falter with. Sure, it sort of reduces the turtles to observers in their own show, but I thought it was worth it.

[odupianist]

When I saw the ending to part 2, I swore right there and then that I wouldn't waste my time or money on the 3rd.

Agreed.

BttF overall was a great triology as far as triologies go. All three worked together and wasn't weak, but at the same time, still stood up as their own movies IMO.

[TristanHuwJones]

I know, I'm not championing comic adaptations, but that's what I'm saying. While the Triceratons weren't the thrust of the season prior, they were still a significant feature. I liked that we had the Battle Nexus break things up a little. I'm just saying I would've liked a little more build up towards the invasion. When it happened, it was just like "Bang! Invasion!" which makes sense, but we still could've had the status quo shaken up in almost limitless ways exactly the way it does AND had the invasion happen further down the road. I think ultimately, the story should have been a cliffhanger, rather than a season opener.
There was nothing wrong with the writing, everything made sense and it set things up for down the road (all of which were more than adequately followed-up on), I just think that in terms of pacing, it could have been better had it served as a closer, and then the following Season we deal exclusively with the repercussions (as the episodes that followed did).
We could probably go back and forth on this for hours, but the cartoons, like the comics and movies and just about everything else, are totally subjective. There are probably a bunch of episodes, or courses taken that I like that you don't and vice versa. I can see totally where you're coming from, it was just a personal preference of mine.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Introducing new characters from one universe to another doesn't say they will appear exactly the same as in the original. If Bebop and Rocksteady were in the Mirage comics, movies or the 2003 cartoon, they would probably be much toughter guys and a big threat to the turtles and Splinter.

[oldmanwinters]

I know, I'm not championing comic adaptations, but that's what I'm saying. While the Triceratons weren't the thrust of the season prior, they were still a significant feature. I liked that we had the Battle Nexus break things up a little. I'm just saying I would've liked a little more build up towards the invasion. When it happened, it was just like "Bang! Invasion!" which makes sense, but we still could've had the status quo shaken up in almost limitless ways exactly the way it does AND had the invasion happen further down the road. I think ultimately, the story should have been a cliffhanger, rather than a season opener.

To give 4Kids some credit, they did end the 2nd season with the last shot being the Triceraton ship approaching Earth ready to invade.

Man, I remember when that came out, I don't think I'd been more excited to see anything! I'm talkin' Dark Knight/Phantom Menace anticipation. I also didn't feel like I'd wasted my time watching BttF2....

The Back to the Future model for the 2nd and 3rd films is, in my opinion, often imitated but rarely duplicated. By the time BttF2 ended, I felt like I was ready for an intermission until the 3rd movie. And thought BttF3 had a fresh feel to it what with the pseudo-western and all.