OT :BLESSING or CURSE ?

[SHREDDER-X]

Like many of you, the Original 1987 TMNT toon has a special place in my heart, because it introduced me to one of the most kick-ass franchises of all time ( I still get hype whenever I hear the theme song). But after discovering the Mirage origins, I realized that the turtles were a respectable comics franchise and not just a half-hour kids show used to sell toys. After reading an article about the Turtles role playing game from Palladium that came out back in 85, and Kevin Siembada saying that it sold well in the begining, but after the debut of the 1987 Toon , sales dropped because no self-respecting role player would play a game based on " kiddie " characters. Now it seems like after the OT, the turtles seemed to have lost the respect of the general comic book community. True the OT was a great show, and introuced many of us to the world of the TMNT, but do you think it hurt the franchise more than helped it ? Will the turtles ever be redeem and seen as the kick-ass crime fighters they really are ? Or will they just be doomed to be slapstick parodies of themselves ?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Like many of you, the Original 1987 TMNT toon has a special place in my heart, because it introduced me to one of the most kick-ass franchises of all time ( I still get hype whenever I hear the theme song). But after discovering the Mirage origins, I realized that the turtles were a respectable comics franchise and not just a half-hour kids show used to sell toys. After reading an article about the Turtles role playing game from Palladium that came out back in 85, and Kevin Siembada saying that it sold well in the begining, but after the debut of the 1987 Toon , sales dropped because no self-respecting role player would play a game based on " kiddie " characters. Now it seems like after the OT, the turtles seemed to have lost the respect of the general comic book community. True the OT was a great show, and introuced many of us to the world of the TMNT, but do you think it hurt the franchise more than helped it ? Will the turtles ever be redeem and seen as the kick-ass crime fighters they really are ? Or will they just be doomed to be slapstick parodies of themselves ?

TMNT, even the 1984 Mirage comics, was originally meant to be a parody of all those comic books who were popular back then, about Teenagers, Mutants, Ninjas and animals (like Turtles).

[SHREDDER-X]

Yeah, I know the original TMNT were parodies of DAREDEVIL, RONIN, and NEW MUTANTS, but it was a serious parody. I was saying the OT was a comedic parody of the original TMNT, and are they doomed to forever be seen that way.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yeah, I know the original TMNT were parodies of DAREDEVIL, RONIN, and NEW MUTANTS, but it was a serious parody. I was saying the OT was a comedic parody of the original TMNT, and are they doomed to forever be seen that way.

I don't think the 1987 cartoon hurt TMNT so much. Instead, it created an interest. How many would hang around here today if it wasn't for the 1987 cartoon?

[KROW]

The OT was a blessing. It brought more exposure to the franchise and spawned three feature films that raked in millions. If it wasn't for the OT, then we most likely wouldn't have gotten the 2K3 series or the 4th film. The fact that roleplayers stopped buying the TMNT RPG products isn't a big loss, considering the reputation of your garden-variety RPGer. A "self-respecting" roleplayer wouldn't be caught dead holding a TMNT RPG handbook, but would gladly dress up like an orc and duel his friends in public. Laughable.

[Scandia]

Blessing, blessing, blessing!

Not only did the OT bring the TMNT into international fame, but in some aspects it is an improvement over the original Mirage.

[Slap-Happy]

I was saying the OT was a comedic parody of the original TMNT, and are they doomed to forever be seen that way.
Don't bash OT, or they'll* give you the gas!

*-those of higher power

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The OT was a blessing. It brought more exposure to the franchise and spawned three feature films that raked in millions. If it wasn't for the OT, then we most likely wouldn't have gotten the 2K3 series or the 4th film. The fact that roleplayers stopped buying the TMNT RPG products isn't a big loss, considering the reputation of your garden-variety RPGer. A "self-respecting" roleplayer wouldn't be caught dead holding a TMNT RPG handbook, but would gladly dress up like an orc and duel his friends in public. Laughable.

I don't believe we would have any film at all.

[KROW]

I don't believe we would have any film at all.

True. Bottom line: without the OT, we'd pretty much just have black and white comics and most of us wouldn't even know the TMNT existed.

[ToTheNines]

Blessing, in every way. The "curse" you're refering too is due to the general public's ignorance of the source material, not that you can blame them, it's never really been put out there, so to speak.

I see a "serious/dark" movie coming our way soon, only because of the sucess of superhero movies like The Dark Knight.

Now it seems like after the OT, the turtles seemed to have lost the respect of the general comic book community.

It never did have respect, it was always pretty underground.

[thebrownranger]

As much as I love the original b&w's, the original toon was a blessing. The only con is that this is what made ninja turtles gain the title as a childrens franchise. But the turtles wouldn't have become a worldwide cultural phenomenon if it weren't for the show. Who knows...if the show never aired, the original first movie may not have existed! :o :o :o :o

[Jester]

Show of hands...who would be at a forum called the Technodrome, if the OT never existed...oh wait....:P

[Cipher]

It's a blessing. It took the Turtles out of obscurity. For however few people are aware of the Mirage comics today, even fewer would be aware were it not for the old toon. Standing as it's own show, it's aged remarkably well and still has alot of charm. Alot of people hate the '60s Batman comparison, but I think they're enjoyable in much the same way. If asked, I don't think anyone would say "I hate Ninja Turtles," and it's all because of the old toon.

Want to know what the real "curse" is? Why the franchise still isn't popularly acknowledged beyond the old toon? It's because the darker side of Turtles isn't being promoted. Batman didn't move beyond the camp era just by creating a slightly edgy, child-oriented cartoon. It had a high profile, industry shaking graphic novel, followed by high profile, dark movies, and the afore mentioned cartoon.

Blaming a lack of Turtle respect on the old cartoon is ridiculous. You want respect of Turtles? Promote the new cartoon beyond the Saturday morning child audience. Don't piss around with PG movies (PG-13 would still attract kids, and nostalgics wouldn't be put off by the idea of seeing a kids' movie.) Most of all, get trade paperbacks of the comic out onto bookstore shelves so people can actually notice and be able to read the darker stories.

Here's the problem in a nutshell: Tell someone that the Turtles started as a gritty, independent comic and they'll probably say, "Oh cool. Where can I see it?" You then have to answer, "Well, no one really knows about it, and if you want to read it you'll have to search through eBay." What the hell?

[Jester]

Mirage is posting earily issues on-line, you can read most of the vol 1 cannon there.

[Cipher]

Mirage is posting earily issues on-line, you can read most of the vol 1 cannon there.So I used some hyperbole. The fact remains that no one is putting a darker Turtles into the public eye and most of the stories are difficult to find.

Even in this instance, the only people that will find the issues on the website are already fans. Put those same issues in a collection at a bookstore (like hundreds of other properties have), and an average consumer might actually take interest.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

I don't think the 1987 cartoon hurt TMNT so much. Instead, it created an interest. How many would hang around here today if it wasn't for the 1987 cartoon?

Right you are. OT basically started my love for giant talking turtles.

:lol:

[CyberCubed]

Without the original cartoon most TMNT fans would not exist.

It would just be an obscure comic franchise that most normal people would have never heard about.

The original cartoon MADE TMNT the pop culture icon it is today.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

The original cartoon MADE TMNT the pop culture icon it is today.

Right! Right! Right!

:P

[KROW]

Batman didn't move beyond the camp era just by creating a slightly edgy, child-oriented cartoon. It had a high profile, industry shaking graphic novel, followed by high profile, dark movies, and the afore mentioned cartoon.

Exactly, and there's the rub. The difference between the two franchises are apparent. Where one has enough money to crank out any product with the guaran-damn-tee that it'll sell, the other needs to struggle with limited resources to even get noticed. One was born from an established publishing company, the other crafted by two guys in a loft apartment. One offered that high-profile and industry-shaking graphic novel, and the other gave us a low-profile and surprisingly violent graphic novel.

TMNT hasn't reached the status Batman has gotten over the years, and I highly doubt it will. But that's part of what makes it so special. The OT was indeed a blessing; even Laird, who really didn't care for it, thinks so.

[Hero]

An embarrasment and a blessing at the same time.

===HERO

[Cipher]

Exactly, and there's the rub. The difference between the two franchises are apparent. Where one has enough money to crank out any product with the guaran-damn-tee that it'll sell, the other needs to struggle with limited resources to even get noticed. One was born from an established publishing company, the other crafted by two guys in a loft apartment. One offered that high-profile and industry-shaking graphic novel, and the other gave us a low-profile and surprisingly violent graphic novel.Oh, I'm fully aware of the financial differences. The point is, Turtles can't grow beyond the old toon because the dark version isn't being promoted at all. I can't imagine that some readily available TPBs or a darker movie are so out of reach. And they'd go a long way.

[Drtooth]

True. Bottom line: without the OT, we'd pretty much just have black and white comics and most of us wouldn't even know the TMNT existed.


My sentiments exactly. The "Curse" part, the only bad thing I can think of is that the cartoon was misinterpreted by too many adults for it to ever become that serious of a comic book. Same thing could have been said about BatMan and the 60's series (either the live action one or the Filmation cartoon... or even super Friends in the 70's)... but time has healed that wound.

All TMNT needs to become respected as a serious comic is the right project to come allong...

But without the OT, TMNT would have been a forgoten B&W comic that would have barely survived the B&W indie crash of the 80's. We can thank crap like "Angst Ridden Fuzzy Purple thing" for that.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

But Archie? Did people take Archie as "kiddie" just because the 1987 cartoon without reading them.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Like many of you, the Original 1987 TMNT toon has a special place in my heart, because it introduced me to one of the most kick-ass franchises of all time ( I still get hype whenever I hear the theme song). But after discovering the Mirage origins, I realized that the turtles were a respectable comics franchise and not just a half-hour kids show used to sell toys. After reading an article about the Turtles role playing game from Palladium that came out back in 85, and Kevin Siembada saying that it sold well in the begining, but after the debut of the 1987 Toon , sales dropped because no self-respecting role player would play a game based on " kiddie " characters. Now it seems like after the OT, the turtles seemed to have lost the respect of the general comic book community. True the OT was a great show, and introuced many of us to the world of the TMNT, but do you think it hurt the franchise more than helped it ? Will the turtles ever be redeem and seen as the kick-ass crime fighters they really are ? Or will they just be doomed to be slapstick parodies of themselves ?

Those "self-respecting" roleplayers need to chill out. If you think about it RPGs are basically a glorified game of "cops and robbers" and "cowboys and indians", so the idea that the TMNT are too juvenile for them kind of makes me think that they are taking it way too seriously. That's coming from a former role player, too.

Anyway, the OT was a "blessing". I look at it like the 1960's Batman. It made the character more accessible to a wider audience, and that's not a bad thing. The hardcore fans will always have the grittier version, and when the other fans can get a taste of that version (in the Turtles' case, the live action movie), it kind of makes it that much cooler.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Remember that the first seasons (1-3) were not so silly in the 1987 TMNT cartoon (season 3 had both silly and cool stuff, and ended with the fantastic "Big" trilogy).