Anyone remember Vol. 4?

[Aztec General]

Anyone? Seriously, what's the hold up here? Thanks for the blog posts and all Peter, but can you write the damn comic already?

Sorry, I had to get that off of my chest.

[VaughnMichael]

hah, even the mirage crew post on his blog from time to time telling him to get back to work on it lol:lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Not to be mean, but it is getting to be a bit of a running joke now. If it can't even be done quarterly, then... then I don't know what to say.

I would love to see things continue/conclude in Vol. 4, but it's a little bit disheartening right now. If the guy doing it doesn't even seem to care about it too much, how can we be expected to as readers?

[junkboy]

It only bugs me when i think about it or on times i am reminded in a way.
I guess i am loving Tales of TMNT much more. Yeah...

[bedbugjones]

im pretty sure peter is going to release the last half in one big trade paperback

at least i hope that would be epic:evilgrin:

[CyberCubed]

Pete wants to wrap it up in 6 issues time, but at the rate he's going we'll be in 2010 by the time its done.

At least Vol. 4 will get an ending of some sort.

[Andrew NDB]

Pete wants to wrap it up in 6 issues time, but at the rate he's going we'll be in 2010 by the time its done.


At the rate he's going?

*does some math*

I'm assuming you mean the time it will have been in between TMNT #29 was available for order and when TMNT #30 will be ready (which is anybody's guess) and completely factoring out the nearly 2 years in between TMNT #28 and TMNT #29...

So let's say, pretty optimistically, TMNT #30 comes out in a month. It will have been 8 months since the previous issue, #29. Continuing "at the rate he's going," the subsequent 5 issues after #30 would take about 3 and a half years... putting us smack in the middle of 2012.

[CyberCubed]

Well that's interesting.

And to think Vol. 4 started in December 2001, its been going on for 7 years now, its actually quite something if he's managed to keep a good portion of his readers over the course of these 7 years of Volume 4.

Of course we have Tales to read in the meantime, but Vol. 4 will probably be going on for a decade before he actually wraps it all up. When you think of it in real-time, its mind blowing.

[CudleyCowlick]

Volume 4? Never heard of it. :lol:

Really though, I was out of the TMNT scene for years and the first issue of Vol. 4 that I picked up new was #29. That being said, it's pretty insane that I have been able to pick up and read all of the other 28 issues before they could get #30 out.

Now we play the waiting game. (The waiting game stinks, let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos!)

[Rooish]

You found the rest of Vol. 4? Where the hell did ya find it all? (Unless ordered online)

My local comic stores have been totally cleansed of any TMNT comics except "Spaced Out" trilogy, the martial arts training manuals, and a few Jim Lawson-drawn Tales Vol. 2 issues.

[CudleyCowlick]

You found the rest of Vol. 4? Where the hell did ya find it all? (Unless ordered online)

Some of them I ordered from Mirage, the rest I found on Ebay. I was actually able to get a good chunk of Tales from my local comic shop though.

[CyberCubed]

Well, waiting is what TMNT fans do best.

Some people have waited like 12 years for Archie's "Forever War" to finally see print, I'm sure waiting for another couples of years for Vol. 4 to conclude is no big deal.

[Andrew NDB]

Some people have waited like 12 years for Archie's "Forever War" to finally see print, I'm sure waiting for another couples of years for Vol. 4 to conclude is no big deal.

And all 30-40 of us left are sure to put a big dent in the print runs of these.

[Buslady]

V4? What's that, some kinda new shampoo?

*snicker*

[Archon_Turtle]

And all 30-40 of us left are sure to put a big dent in the print runs of these.

Your words! They cut like knives! AAAARRRGGGHH!

[CyberCubed]

Well if he averages 2 new issues a year, is that better than nothing?

[Cipher]

You know, I remember liking this thing pretty well. I wonder when it will be back...

And honestly, what with the Wowio deal, I'm not to keen on paying $10 for a physical copy. However, I'd love to buy trade-paperbacks eventually. The series reads better in large chunks anyway.

[DK2]

I really hope for the 2009 25th anniversary that Peter at least gets some more Vol. 4 issues out by next year. I'm thinking anywhere from 2- 4 issues next year would be better than just one a year. The main TMNT comic should be out there as part of the celebrations. The last time we heard about TMNT Vol.4 #30 was Peter on newsarama interview in the summer and he said that if my memory is correct, #30 was all drawn but needed to be lettered etc. So why is it still not even been released? We've seen its cover as well. So whats the hold up for this one? We can only dream that they want to pile up some issues in the can or so and hopefully be giving us a couple of issues of TMNT Vol. 4 next year. Heres hoping.

[Andrew NDB]

Either he's just given up/lost pretty much all interest in it (at least for now) or he's doing up a bunch of issues to release in larger TPB-style volumes. Based on all the evidence available I don't really see a third option.

[twopinacoladas]

Couldn't help but laugh when I read the topic title although I was mentioning it to my brother the other day something about how long its been 8 months or so since the last? At any rate he wants to finish it in 6 so I'd assume more are coming perhaps one not to long from now well at least the next one i'd be happy with quarterly as well. That would finish it up in a year and a half still after Tales is over if they decide not to do anymore after 2009.

Kinda sucks if we don't get any more turtles comics but I am sure its like beating a dead horse... there are other topics about that I believe. On a side note I still have a few books from vol 2 and image to track down...

[Spitfire]

They're stopping Tales after 2009? When did this happen?

[VaughnMichael]

They're stopping Tales after 2009? When did this happen?
When you left to become a big time hollywood movie producer.:P

[Spitfire]

When you left to become a big time hollywood movie producer.:P

Hell I wish, I'd give up a monthly turtles comic if it meant getting that status. Course if the series was better I wouldn't be so inclined. It hasn't been doing much for me lately. Mainly because the issues Lawson does look like barf and have decent stories and the ones he doesn't do have great art and bad stories.

[VaughnMichael]

Hell I wish, I'd give up a monthly turtles comic if it meant getting that status. Course if the series was better I wouldn't be so inclined. It hasn't been doing much for me lately. Mainly because the issues Lawson does look like barf and have decent stories and the ones he doesn't do have great art and bad stories.
Ooooo Burn *stitz*

[CyberCubed]

I think we'll get at least two Vol. 4 issues next year, some of his posts on his blog made it obvious at least the next issue is fairly far along. We've seen the cover too.

[Roseangelo]

I think we'll get at least two Vol. 4 issues next year, some of his posts on his blog made it obvious at least the next issue is fairly far along. We've seen the cover too.

The art on both issues #29 & #30 was complete before #29 was published. We've been waiting this whoooole time for Peter to "tone" (if you can really call it that) and letter it. Seeing two issues this year would be the overly optimistic end of the scale.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I kind of forgot about volume 4. I actually don't really remember too much about it at this point, except that aliens reveal themselves to humans, Splinter dies, and April finds out she was a drawing.


I don't really miss it too much. Tales on the other hand I would miss if it gets canceled. I'd rather have mediocre TMNT comics than none at all (and I have to disagree with that assessment, I've found many of them to be very enjoyable). I'd like to see them release some kind of comics for the future, even if they have to start the story over again.

[Cipher]

I just want to see the damn thing finished at this point. I was enjoying the story (for the most part), and I'd hate to leave the Mirage universe with a dangling plotline.

[Jester]

Hey, if the Forever War series sells well, we may see a 3rd TMNT book, TMNT Adventures. That would be awesome!

[Andrew NDB]

Hey, if the Forever War series sells well, we may see a 3rd TMNT book, TMNT Adventures. That would be awesome!

I'd love to see that happen, but you and I both know that's not in the cards. Maybe if it was in color and had super good buzz throughout the comic scene.

As such it's pretty literally a gift to the fans. And I'm OK with that.

[Kendamu]

I'm not sitting around and waiting for the next issue of Vol. 4 to come out. If it gets announced, I'll get it when it comes out. If nothing comes up, oh well. No disrespect to Vol. 4, but I like Tales better, anyway, because I'm a big fan of one-shots.

Another thing that's keeping me so patient is that I generally buy TMNT comics only once or twice a year and I buy them directly from Mirage over the phone when I do. Today I put in an order for the nine issues of City at War I don't have, all four issues of the new Michelangelo miniseries, and Tales 43-53. That's 24 comics that I haven't read yet and it'll probably be August before I give them another call unless the Forever War trade comes out before then.

So, for me personally, Peter Laird can take all the time he wants making his book. I have plenty of other books to look at in the meantime. Outside of comics, I have other TMNT-related things to keep me entertained as well. Plus, I'm also into Batman and Dragonball so it's not like TMNT Vol. 4 is all I have going for me in my life.

[Candy Kappa]

maybe hes been inspired by Shirō Masamune with taking his sweet time finishing each issue.

If I remeber correctly he was slow to fininsh each book

[CyberCubed]

Vol. 4 started in December 2001 and we're now in 2009, its actually scary knowing its almost been a complete decade and this comic is still going on, but it only has 29 issues in all this time.

[Leo656]

I remember a few years ago Laird saying he was gonna have to cut back on publishing b/c the books weren't selling well.

I've never been surprised at that, since late books with bad/mediocre art just don't often sell very well, and TMNT Vol. 4 just didn't come off the way it should've. Tales has been far and away the better book IMO. But I am annoyed that the main TMNT book got derailed so badly.

I know people are gonna get mad about it, but I have always blamed Lawson's art for it, along with Laird not quite knowing or caring what the audience wants. Tales works b/c the stories and art are more what fans expect and want from the characters. And I simply can't understate how important the art is in a visual medium like comics. Yes, story is more important, but it's not the 80s anymore and the people who grew up with Lawson's TMNT art and like it are definitely the vast minority. When Vol. 4 launched, I talked to SO many fans who wanted to get into it but just didn't want to spend 4 bucks on a book that looked like that book did. I bitched about it. A lot. I remember Laird even had the audacity to half/quote me in his lettercol during one of his rants defending Lawson's art, just before telling the fans that he didn't "owe" them anything.

But the fact remains: People didn't dig the book, so it stalled. It's such a shame. Tales seems to do ok, and hey, it's usually not drawn by Lawson. See a pattern?

Given the state of comics these days, I'm just glad we get any TMNT product at all...

[DK2]

Just seen Jim Lawsons blog a few days ago and I can't understand this bit on TMNT Vol. 4's hiatus/delays. Jim showed TMNT V4 #31's cover he just finished. Yet he says the art for the issue was done since June last year. So art wise, the book is 2 issues in the can. So if #31's already in near solid completion, why is #30 still not out? We've seen #30's painted cover art already, Peter said he needed to finish lettering it and Eric Talbot ink it back in late summer '08. I just don't get why Peter hasn't released #30. What is he waiting for? Again I wonder if he's waiting for a few issues in the can for 2009 to bring out a couble for the year of the 25th anniversary?

Oh for the previous poster that thought Tales is more popular than TMNT V4 here: TMNT Vol. 4 actually had slightly better numbers in sales/orders than Tales if I'm correct from the Diamond sales charts back in 2006. Tales isn't a money maker for Mirage anymoreso than TMNT V4 wasn't. Both books don't make Mirage any money at all. Laird stated he hasn't made money off these current TMNT comics TMNT V4 #1 & 2. 'Cause one book went to hiatus doesn't mean that the other book was more popular. Laird chose to put TMNT V4 on hold while Tales continued. The only people buying the TMNT comics are us the hardcore TMNT fans. I think given the current comics market of now the TMNT aren't a popular comic to the general comic reader.
I too ain't crazy about Lawsons art today, but his art actually can amaze me at times. On his blog the TMNT groupshot ain't bad. The one Tales cover with Nobody was bad due to Nobodys upper body size. And theres something nice about his pencils to his own inked work. So I'm 50/50 on his style at times. But it nowhere looks as kickass as his art from the late '80's. He was number 3 to me behind Eastman & Laird as the best TMNT artist. Its the way his characters look thats bad today. People with horrible faces, baseball glove sized hands, Pinochio noses. The TMNT running around like rubber bands, disfigured body parts. That kills me to look at. What also killed the art in TMNT V4 to me was Laird stopped the duotoning ink effects after V4 #8. That toning effect was a staple of the old TMNT comics and it gave substance to Jims art. The duotones are sorely missed. Why can't V4 get the B&W coloring effects that the pages of Tales gets? Anything like this would help the art, characters, back/foregrounds stand out.

[CyberCubed]

Laird also said the original reason Vol. 4 went on hiatus is to help work with Kevin Munroe on the 2007 TMNT movie.

I thought once the movie finished production he'd get back into Vol. 4 full swing...but it hasn't happened. As a whole, what IS PL doing now?

There are no new eps of the cartoon being produced at the moment, so its not like he's with 4kids approving scripts or tweaking character art. The new movie deal still isn't finalized, so there's nothing happening there. The toy approval process obviously isn't that time consuming. The 25th anniversary stuff seems like its being handled more by other Mirage staff members from what we know.

So apparently the only thing PL is doing TMNT wise is approving of scripts for Tales. I honestly wonder why Vol. 4 is not his priority especially now that nothing much is happening.

[Roseangelo]

As a whole, what IS PL doing now?

He made mention of his typical daily schedule in a Newsarama interview (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080610-TMNT25-Laird.html) last year:

I get up around 9 or 9:30am, eat breakfast (almost always three waffles, some fruits, a cup of green tea, and a glass of water), and then head to my home office to check emails and do various internet related things, one of which lately is to work on my blog, which is a lot of fun. (Maybe too much fun...!)

Then I head downtown to the Mirage offices, maybe talk Turtle business with Steve Murphy or [CEO] Gary Richardson, check in with/say hello to the Mirage artists (Jim Lawson, Michael Dooney, Dan Berger, and more rarely Eric Talbot -- he works at home a lot) and see if I have any mail at my Mirage office. Occasionally Murph will have something he wants me to autograph for one of our business partners -- lately it has been sets of those cool NECA TMNT figures.

Then I'll try to do a bicycle ride for a few hours, eat lunch somewhere, do some errands, and head back home. Or if weather and time permit, I'll go on a motorcycle ride. Then the night is spent reading, watching TV, doing more email and internet stuff (which also includes reading comic plots and scripts submitted via email).

You'll notice I didn't include "drawing" anywhere. That's because, for a variety of reasons, I hardly draw anymore. Occasionally, I will do a piece of Turtle art, but I haven't actually drawn a whole comic book in many years.

He doesn't seem that devoted to actually working, IMO.

[Kendamu]

If I'm not mistaken, I've read in other places that there's stuff that's already done in regards to future Volume 4 issues. Like a lot of other things, could Vol. 4 have been held back so there would be more to release this year?

[Roseangelo]

If I'm not mistaken, I've read in other places that there's stuff that's already done in regards to future Volume 4 issues. Like a lot of other things, could Vol. 4 have been held back so there would be more to release this year?

My understanding is that Jim's art is complete for at least a couple issues, but Peter hasn't finished lettering/scripting or "toning."

[Cipher]

He doesn't seem that devoted to actually working, IMO.That's cool, but he should simply hand his duties off to someone else if that's the case. As far as I understand it, his sole creative job as far as Volume 4 is concerned is to come up with concepts and scripts. He should just stick to concepts and have Lawson or Murphy write the scripts. With all due respect, I believe them to be more capable script-writers anyway.

Bottom line, anything to get Volume 4 off the press faster.

[Roseangelo]

That's cool, but he should simply hand his duties off to someone else if that's the case.

Exactly what I've been saying.

[Leo656]

To be fair, I do think Lawson puts tons of detail into his landscapes and his dinosaurs and stuff like that, I just don't like the way he does figures, faces, and characters in motion. I get that everyone has a style, but I grew up on John Byrne and Neal Adams and stuff. Neal Adams used to say something to the effect of "'Style' is just a way of admitting you can't do it properly'". I think that's overly harsh, but I think the effect of Lawson's non-human characters would be better if his human characters actually looked... well, more human.

[Ninjinister]

To be fair, I do think Lawson puts tons of detail into his landscapes and his dinosaurs and stuff like that, I just don't like the way he does figures, faces, and characters in motion. I get that everyone has a style, but I grew up on John Byrne and Neal Adams and stuff. Neal Adams used to say something to the effect of "'Style' is just a way of admitting you can't do it properly'". I think that's overly harsh, but I think the effect of Lawson's non-human characters would be better if his human characters actually looked... well, more human.

Agreed. His dinosaurs are very detailed, always have been. They're the only part of his style that I thought improved since he started way back when. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the dinosaurs in South America storyline, as well as Gameraph, were just excuses for Lawson to draw dinos. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

But the fact remains: People didn't dig the book, so it stalled. It's such a shame. Tales seems to do ok, and hey, it's usually not drawn by Lawson. See a pattern?

No. No pattern. The last few issues of Vol. 4 that were distributed through Diamond all sold better than the Tales of the TMNT coming out at the time.

And Tales usually is drawn by Lawson these days.

[CyberCubed]

Pete is getting up in the years now, isn't he 54 now? Perhaps it gets harder for him to pull things in the comic together as much as he used to when he was younger.

I guess the problem is Pete has nobody to pass the franchise on to. His daughter has nothing to do with the franchise, and unless someone like Murphy takes over, there's nothing that can be done.

[Dragon Turtle]

Pete is getting up in the years now, isn't he 54 now? Perhaps it gets harder for him to pull things in the comic together as much as he used to when he was younger.


He'll be 55 next week. Perhaps it's a lack of passion associated with his belief that there is no real big audience interested in TMNT comics.



I guess the problem is Pete has nobody to pass the franchise on to. His daughter has nothing to do with the franchise, and unless someone like Murphy takes over, there's nothing that can be done.

I don't believe it would be hard to find someone to carry on the franchise, especially since the people who work at Mirage have been there for over twenty years. But Laird has shown no interest in handing the reins over to someone else, the turtles are still a very personal part of his life, and he still takes an active role in virtually every aspect of the TMNT empire, from the cartoon shows to the videogames.

[turkishproverb]

Did you see the schedule he posted? He doesn't exactly list his time at mirage as bieng all that strenuous, or even prolonged.

[Roseangelo]

... he still takes an active role in virtually every aspect of the TMNT empire, from the cartoon shows to the videogames.

I'm basically dittoing what turkishproverb said; Peter doesn't do much of anything beyond making sure nothing breaks his so-called commandments of the TMNT, which includes things like how the Turtles don't have fingernails.

And his judgment isn't always that great, seeing how he approved the TMNT Overload cartoon concept and the Music Turtles action figures.

[Dragon Turtle]

Did you see the schedule he posted? He doesn't exactly list his time at mirage as bieng all that strenuous, or even prolonged.

But he still is involved in the creative process of many of the TMNT products, he looks over the designs and scripts for the cartoon shows, he had much more involvement in the last movie then the previous ones, reviews all storyline proposals for Tales, and writing for the videogame. On top of that he still most likely sits in on a few business meetings with Playmates, 4Kids, movie studios, and other companies.

Am I saying that he is too busy to finish vol. 4, no, but at the same time I don't believe he just this retired comicbook creator who just rides around on a motorcycle eating waffles all day (there's an image for ya :)).

[Andrew NDB]

And his judgment isn't always that great, seeing how he approved the TMNT Overload cartoon concept and the Music Turtles action figures.

But those are intended for little kids.

[DK2]

I'm intrigued by Jim Lawsons TMNT V4 #31 cover. Donnie is in a Robin Hood like outfit and he seems to be back to normal size since he's standing on a tree stump. So within the unseen TMNT V4 #30, Don gets back to regular size? Or did Don make a large robotic body suit for himself? Its just I can't remember the stuff thats happened in this long gap. I'll have to look back on this. Nevertheless I'm already interested in what we've not gotten to read yet.

[CyberCubed]

I can't believe #30 still isn't out. At this rate we won't see it till summer.

I'll find it very funny if Vol. 4 doesn't get wrapped up till 2011. I want to see if Volume 4 can last an entire decade, from December 2001 to December 2011....

Think its possible?

[Andrew NDB]

I'm intrigued by Jim Lawsons TMNT V4 #31 cover.

Wait, where are you seeing that?

[TristanHuwJones]

Wait, where are you seeing that?

It's over on Jim's blog I think...

[Cipher]

I'm intrigued by Jim Lawsons TMNT V4 #31 cover. Donnie is in a Robin Hood like outfit and he seems to be back to normal size since he's standing on a tree stump. So within the unseen TMNT V4 #30, Don gets back to regular size? Or did Don make a large robotic body suit for himself?Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I believe the Turtle on the cover is Leo, possibly engaging in Battle Nexus shenanigans?

Also, a prediction: April's main problem with her origin is the fact that there were two other Aprils who disappeared as babies. We know that an entire dimension exists filled with drawings from the magic crystal (the Donatello one-shot). Leonardo is now in the Battle Nexus, where it has been explicitely stated that dopplegangers from other dimensions sometimes encounter each other. So do you think Leo might run into...?

[Coola Yagami]

Damn.... after something like that.. Peter just can't abandon the series.

[odupianist]

The current Volume 4 has so many things it could explore and develop into really amazing stories. I just hope Mirage takes advantage of that.

Here's the cover for 31 from Lawson's blog: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LzXvrxnHL-8/SWtivEjPcAI/AAAAAAAAAG4/qa4yhydFSUs/s1600-h/TMNT31_cvr.jpg

I don't think it's Don though. Maybe I'm just mistaking the frills on the shoulders for M's though.

[CyberCubed]

I'd say its Leo in the Battle Nexus...but who knows.

[soccerstud652]

Because there is so much time between issues, I have to re-read every volume 4 issue before a new release.

[sorrenmj]

Volume 4 is my favourite volume! I just wish it could be concluded. Does anyone know if it ever will be?