sooo...yeah... [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

ZariusTwo

11-16-2008, 10:38 PM

Well Vaugh's probably date-raping us with "I told you sos":P, but hey, I got three good episodes out of it, so it's worth the pain and councelling.

They made major mistakes this season, and the fact we've had mainly new writers who clearly prefer to write light-hearted storylines hasnt helped. The structue of the season depended too much on going to cyberspace, the declining toyline took precepise over internal story structure, drama, and logic.

Above all else, I think some people either have piss-poor tastes, or will swallow any old nonsense these days because the market is so saturated with fewer and fewer series with quality attached to it. Sometimes that's acceptable with shows that are designed to be light-hearted from the instant they begin (The Brave and The Bold), but if you know what brought this series to the dance, one of the most mature, darkest, balliest things 4Kids ever produced...you have to be only fooling yourselves.

Ninjinister

11-16-2008, 10:49 PM

I still like Back to the Sewer, because TMNT is still the best childrens' show currently on TV, in my eyes. And as I've said before, I've never hated an episode, just liked some less than others.

ZariusTwo

11-16-2008, 11:18 PM

I still like Back to the Sewer, because TMNT is still the best childrens' show currently on TV

Wolverine and The X-Men has had that crown since August 2008 pal.

Jester

11-16-2008, 11:20 PM

Wolverine and The X-Men has had that crown since August 2008 pal.
I'd agree if I actually watched it on TV...

I've said too much.

ZariusTwo

11-16-2008, 11:25 PM

...And heck, even if you can't, there's always The Spectacular Spider-Man

TMNT are DONE in the "best children's television series currently in the US" catergory.

Jester

11-16-2008, 11:28 PM

That's it...US...isn't Wolvie and the X-men airing in only Canada ATM?

Can't defend Spidey over BttS, except that it's gone....BLAST YOU 4KIDS and NICKTOONS NETWORK!!

The Terror of Death

11-17-2008, 01:50 AM

I liked about three episodes so far, everything else was pretty meh.The animation, presentation, fight scenes, storyline, and characterization is inferior to previous seasons. Sadly the only thing that's consistent is the music quality. And when you take away all that the only thing we got left that is a step up is character designs. Even then I feel those are only slightly better than previous seasons. This makes it the worst season.

Animation: At first glance you would think this has the same animation as FF but it doesn't. FF was pretty consistent, BttS isn't. For one you got clips from FF and 2k3 being used to save money. These clips only last for less than 10 seconds so it make the viewer think "wow you couldn't spend $20 for a 4 second scene." Not only that but more than 50% of the opening is actual in show scenes. Next you got a stick figure drawing (Foot war in Tempus Fugit), bad running animation (guy in alley during Karate Schooled), blurry video quality (one scene in the The Engagement Ring, and etc episodes), and portrait paintings (opening and Identity Crisis). With all that you would think the staff wrote the book on how to cut corners. This season is brighter than the others so that's a plus.

Fight Scenes: We got a solid fight in something wicked, decent fights in Hacking Stockman and Karate Schooled, and several boring fights for other episodes. There's only been a few quick martial arts moves (Seasons 1-4) and and even fewer special weapon attacks (Season 5, FF). This season attempts to do both martial arts and special weapon attacks and usually fails at it because the fights are just too short.

Presentation: A few detailed closeups with Cyber Shredder, no shaky camera, no wide screen cinematic, one color alteration, etc, and etc. The presentation is adequate but it doesn't compare with FF and 2k3 which always tried to look cool and innovative. But I did like the camera rotation in the opening , the closeup of Leo dodging a sword from side to side in Tempus Fugit, and Viral transforming into Shredder. Not too much memorable cinematography but you could do worse.

Story: There's too much filler and little progression. Rehashing of old plots. (A turtle blaming himself, time portals, dinosaurs, videogame episodes, Shredders return and the foot clan being rebuilt, etc.) A lot of this stuff has been done to death and lacks any impact because previous seasons have done it better. Cyberspace and data bit collecting is too gimmicky. The large cast of allies and villains are not being utilized so the tmnt universe feels too small. Some previous plot points are not being touched upon or resolved.

Characterization: Its decent. Casey proposed to April, and took up karate when the turtles left so that's cool. Don blamed himself for Splinters sacrifice, worked like a maniac to get his data back, and neglected some of his other duties. It wasn't executed as well as Leo's story in season four but it was a nice change of pace for his character. Mikey saved the gang from a dinosaur, saved the guys from Khan, and came up with a helpful plan in Web Wranglers. Hes the same Mikey from previous seasons but he hasn't become a totally unreliable comic relief character so I guess that's good. Now for the bad. Hun has been played for laughs. You would think he would have the aura of an extremely powerful crime boss but he doesn't. He blushes, still does grunt work, makes up lies to up his status, and frequently plays SuperQuest. Everyone else is pretty much the same as before.

Tmnt is a shell of its former self.

Drtooth

11-17-2008, 08:12 AM

The new writers seem to be a problem. Somehow I know they'll pull off the last couple of episodes, I I really thought it had the potential to be kinda close to the original 2k3... I was never kidding myself that it would be that good. And personally, I thought that the TMNT 2k3's best bits were done halfway through season 3... then they moved onto those annoying Adlintian arcs, especially in the first half of season 4. Yes, they forked up all these other civilizations... WE GOT IT. I thought we were watching TMNT, and now they're playing third to guest heroes. The second half of S4 was better... and S5 was pretty good, considering they ripped the source material from Naruto.

And For the trillionth time, I can't say FF was bad, so much as a wasted concept. One that built up to the good stuff too slow, and that kept bludgeoning us over the head with the same themes over and over (Mikey's immaturity, how the future is different in random and usually not funny ways). They really should have spent more time on Shokkenabo, Bishop, and Zixx, and less time on Starlee's Jewish stereotype "call the anti-defamation league," Triple Threat (or at least made him into something other than the villain that's just there), or episodes focusing on Mikey's behavior being mimmicked by the villain (If I wanted that stuff, I'd watch Sushi Pack a lot more often).

This season had about 4 really good episode, a couple could have been better episodes (Did the writers take a course in "Wasting Concepts, and how to Overshadow them by shoving them in the second act"- taught by Simpsons writers?), and 2 episodes that seem like kid's books with the Turtles in them... or at least episodes that seem like they're from another show. All I'm saying, they knew that this would be 13 episodes, and they still act like they have all the time in the world for the good stuff to develope, so they can throw as many product placements and "Let's abuse Serling because he's an ellitist" jokes as possible. SHredder SHOULD have came out by now. Don should have stayed solo finding Splinter. And for the last time, Raph is a frustrated, angry, hot headed fighter... not a grouchy old guy who keeps sending the soup back because there's too much broth.

Ninjinister

11-17-2008, 09:13 AM

...And heck, even if you can't, there's always The Spectacular Spider-Man

TMNT are DONE in the "best children's television series currently in the US" catergory.

I really like Spectacular Spider-Man, but I don't see why so many people think it's the second coming of Jesus or whatever. They say the writing is "smart", but other than a few nice quips, it's all standard action cartoon fare. Call me backwards, I still prefer Back to the Sewer to Spectacular Spider-Man. Not to mention that I meant (and I thought it was implied) that it was any children's show that currently airs new episodes.

NameGoesHere1066

11-17-2008, 09:40 AM

so far I'm enjoying BTTS, and I'm waiting to fully judge the season as a whole until all it has aired. These past two episodes have been brain cancer inducing painful to watch, but over all I'm still enjoying this season.

Though I do agree there has been some missed opertunities. The whole thing with the turtles having their memeories suppressed and working for the foot should have come when Splinter was completed. It would have been a good climax to Splinter's completion that instead of a reunion the turtles get that cyber virus and they go over to his side and become his and Splinter has to deal with his sons as his greatest eniemies warriors.

Also I'm just about had it with people on here complaining that Karai or Bishiop hasn't shown up. I can understand more with Karai because we did get a BTTS design for her but every one bitching about Bishiop is starting to get old. Bishiop was never an active enemy to the turtles like the other parties have been and he's always had his own agenda and only got involved with the turtles when they got in his way or he wanted something from them, so why would he bother with the turtles right now? His absence isn't that damn out of character and his character is unique because unlike every one else he has other things to do other than menacing the turtles or worring about Shredder.

So to answer the topic of this thread, yes I am still enjoying this season and I haven't given up on it.

Cipher

11-17-2008, 09:46 AM

I'll begin by saying that there's no part of the show that I haven't enjoyed in some way. Fast Foward and Back to the Sewer are admittedly steps down in writing from previous seasons, but viewed on their own I like them just fine.

The problem with Back to the Sewer is that, as many people have pointed out, it's a combination of elements from earlier seasons and Fast Foward. Rather than being some kind of awesome superbaby, it's a mess combining the worst elements from both. You now have over-the-top seriousness mixed with jokes that carry none of Fast Foward's charm. Cram this into a thirteen episode format with incredibly rushed episodes and it just doesn't hold water.

And maybe I'll be accussed of being shallow, but its second fault is shoddy animation. We have clunky movement and re-used footage inserted into the most random moments. The worst part is, people don't understand. "But it's darker so the animation is better!" I actual prefer this art style to Fast Foward's, but the fact remains that the actual animation quality in season six was leagues better than it is now.

Basically, when I watch Fast Foward I can think, "Oh, they're just having fun with the show. It's not bad." When I watch Back to the Sewer I think "What the hell were they going for with this?"

Ninjinister

11-17-2008, 09:58 AM

This is the way I think of it:

Could it be better - YES
Is it still good? - YES

NameGoesHere1066

11-17-2008, 09:59 AM

Rather than being some kind of awesome superbaby, it's a mess combining the worst elements from both. You now have over-the-top seriousness mixed with jokes that carry none of Fast Foward's charm.

I think what some people are forgetting is that this is in affect still a transitional season where the series is trying to find it's happy medium between FF and classic 2k3. They've got the time period and cast of characters and over-all feel of the classic 2k3 as well as the a few characters and elements from FF but they are trying to mesh it together seemlessly. Red Sky in the orginal series kind of had that when they got rid of Shredder, Krang and the R+B and brought in Dregg and his jolly band of henchmen and Carter.

ZariusTwo

11-17-2008, 10:31 AM

I really like Spectacular Spider-Man, but I don't see why so many people think it's the second coming of Jesus or whatever. They say the writing is "smart", but other than a few nice quips, it's all standard action cartoon fare

Yet you prefer a season that's full of standard filler rather than story progression, which Spidey has, you're just not looking hard enough

And going on "best show currently airing" is a technicality torn to shreds by Wolverine and The X-Men

I think what some people are forgetting is that this is in affect still a transitional season.

What you seem to be forgetting is that FF had much better transistion back and forth, dipping into aspects of the continuity in a way that closed out Bishop and Baxter's storylines, and returning to the past to prevent a time paradox....but perhaps most noticably, was that the Turtles STILL HAD THEIR EDGE. Now? Everyone is trying to imitate the original series versions, there's no urgency in the performances, Leo and Raph are snowed under in stuff that fits Mikey EVERY SINGLE WEEK, and their damn eye slits make them look like peodophiles.

And for a season most fans have the common sense to admit is the FINAL season, it shouldnt be coasting on it's arse.

They have the "feel" of the 2003 series? What are you smoking? Besides THREE episodes where that was apparent (and mainly that helped the supporting cast more than the Turtles), it's just been The Turtles goofing off in angst-driven situations and not taking Splinter's dessemation remotley seriously, except possibly Donatello. Noone's "stood out" this season, another problem with FF was this very same thing.

There's no excuse for this s*it. The writers are LAZY, the animation is LAZY, the characters are TIRED, and the concept is LAZY.

There's nothing "transistional" about lazyness, it's a universal form of complaicent SPITE.

gobo

11-17-2008, 10:41 AM

Above all else, I think some people either have piss-poor tastes, or will swallow any old nonsense these days because the market is so saturated with fewer and fewer series with quality attached to it.
If you want something done right, you need to do it yourself. If not, then eat what you're served. :ohwell: For the record, I prefer that later half of Fast Forward to Back to the Sewer ATM. Fewer weak links, but...
This is the way I think of it:

Could it be better - YES
Is it still good? - YES
Damn straight... o_O

Drtooth

11-17-2008, 10:47 AM

And for a season most fans have the common sense to admit is the FINAL season, it shouldnt be coasting on it's arse.

That's the main problem. it shouldn't have been the last season, and none of the three parties felt it would be when they brought it up. but a certain party for certain obvious reasons feels it should be. And unless they can fool themselves into thinking another movie is around the corner, this has been the last bit for them.

I agree full heartedly... this is lazy writing and lazy animation (though, they could have gotten a great deal lazier and made it Flash, like everyone else apparently is doing). Everything past the 3, 4 episodes has seemed rushed and culled out of unused episodes. There IS no excuse for the turtles running around and being children. Even FF had a good excuse. There was no huge gathering storm (that they actually panned out), there was nothing too serious... all and all, with the exception of Shokkenabo et al, it was like a vacation for them.

They know 3 Shredders are coming, they know Splinter needs to be restored, and they know that all their villains have had an entire year off to refocus themselves. but they fill the time saying "Buy new X-treme sports Mini-Mutants! X-treme sports! Did you hear that, fat lazy kids who wouldn't even want to walk out in the sunlight? X-Treme!" and abusing Serling.

Even that last bit about the World of Quest or whatever could have been done better. There wasn't even any danger. it was like they were playing a Leap Pad game or something. It wasn't even a real quest. They coulda/woulda/shoulda made Raph get injured, but they thought it was too much fun to turn him into Gilbert Goddfried.

Ninjinister

11-17-2008, 10:51 AM

Yet you prefer a season that's full of standard filler rather than story progression, which Spidey has, you're just not looking hard enough

And going on "best show currently airing" is a technicality torn to shreds by Wolverine and The X-Men

Again, I wouldn't be able to judge Wolverine and The X-Men, because it doesn't air where I live.

And Spidey does have story progression - I've never faulted that. It's just that it's a small twist of the same ol' Spider-Man story. It seems too much to me like an "Ultimate Spider-Man" version of the 90's Fox Kids show to me.

And whether a story has progression or not, isn't how I value a show. It's whether it entertains me. Back to the Sewer is quite a bit more entertaining right now than watching repeats of Spectacular Spider-Man.

NameGoesHere1066

11-17-2008, 11:07 AM

I dunno, I guess I'm just sitting back and enjoying the ride as the season pans out and not scrutinising and stressing as much. I feel I did (and many others) alot of bitching and moaning and gnashing my teeth when FF was on. At this point I'm spent with nit picking and complaining and looking for things that aren't going to happen, and complaing about it when it doesn't. It's undeniable at this point that this is the last season of the new series. It had a nice run and this is the end of it's rope. Basically the new series should have just ended after season five becuase it pretty much tyed up all the loose ends of the first seasons and was the ending of the tone the series started out on (well actually season four was but you get what I mean) instead of giving into demands and kiddifying the show by making FF.

terran631

11-17-2008, 11:59 AM

From the second episode with Mikey flying around the lair on his skateboard having himself a mini-party, I was losing interest in the new season. Characterization, characterization, characterization. That is why I like TMNT. Depth of character. Angst? No. But don't create an angsty situation and then gloss over it. That's just unforgiveable because it makes the characters look shallow and immature.

I think this season had loads of potential. With Splinter gone, seeing how the four turtles can come together and try to rescue him while trying to deal with a resurgence of Shredder, the Foot, and the Purple Dragons had AWESOME potential. It has potential for growth, teamwork, and yes drama. The writers dropped the ball. They've shown next to nothing in this way. I don't buy the theory that you have to infer that the turtles mean "this" when they do/say "that" because the writers didn't have time to include the meaning for "that", so search for meaning in OOC representation. Nope. If the writers meant me to believe "this" then they should show me in some way.

Also, I've never been a fan of the theory "if you think you can do better than do it yourself." Last I checked, writing for BttS wasn't my job. To keep using the food analogy...if a restaurant served steak rare when I ordered well done, than I would send it back or not go to that restaurant again. I would not go to the kitchen in the restaurant and prepare it myself. I am a customer of the TMNT franchise, and I'm not pleased with what I'm being provided. Some people are, and that's fine with me. Not everyone likes steak well done.

Coola Yagami

11-17-2008, 06:48 PM

Yeah that's true. They kinda painted themselves into a corner with making Splinter into cyberbits like that. Having a 'new' show and a new season would be kinda tough to go against all the other shows this season with having the turtles mope and angst about their lost sensei all the time. But at the same time, having the turtles still playin around and having laughs shows that they didn't care all that much for their 'father' at all. How many people here are gonna yell out BS!!! when they finally restore Splinter and the turtles get all weepy and all 'oh we missed you so much' and whatnot?

raphael88

11-17-2008, 10:35 PM

To the overall, i don't like this season, but one episode, "Hacking Stockman" was one of the best of all the series. (at least for me:p)

Drtooth

11-18-2008, 12:06 PM

Anyone else kinda feel uneasy that they never acknowledged what happened to Klunk? It's like he appeared out of a Vortex....

I mean, what's the trouble in having Mikey turn to April and say "Thanks for taking care of Klunk for us while we were away." All I could picture the first 5 episodes this season is that they found Klunk dead from lack of care one day.

From the second episode with Mikey flying around the lair on his skateboard having himself a mini-party, I was losing interest in the new season. Characterization, characterization, characterization. That is why I like TMNT. Depth of character. Angst? No. But don't create an angsty situation and then gloss over it. That's just unforgiveable because it makes the characters look shallow and immature.

I have to second that. I think they could have at least stressed a that Mikey is trying to mask his emotions at that point. I thought the fact he changed the subject when they were talking to Casey and April spoke volumes about that. It really seems that would be part of his character, coping with loss by trying to hide it. And as much as I liked how Don was angry at himself for losing Splinter, they really had potential in Raph secretly holding it against Don as well.

Coola Yagami

11-18-2008, 12:17 PM

Agreed. Plus, at the risk of seeing emo Leo again... as a person that prides himself so much in Splinter's teachings, I'm surprised Leo didn't blame himself for not jumping in the way to take the shot for Splinter or anything. You know, the whole 'sensei... i have failed you...' bit.

The Terror of Death

11-18-2008, 01:37 PM

You wanna know the worst thing about BttS? They axed a potentially good season for it. In FF season 2 we were going to get a Space Usagi arc, Triceraton Shredder (Ch'rell was probably rescued by Zuko or some other Triceraton gang), Stockman finally getting a new body, a possible reappearance of the Necros Monster from Darkness Within (that's if that portrait painting of Don and Cody fighting it in Identity Crisis is anything to go by) and the conclusion to the Darius Dunn, Dark TMNT, and Torbin Zixx stories. That stuff was going to wrap up some loose ends and add to the tmnt universe unlike most of the stuff were getting in BttS. In BttS we only got 2 new characters; Khan and Cyber Shredder and no loose ends tied up. And that "how much can change in 1 year" crap they kept spouting in the blog didn't add a thing to the story.

I bet by seasons end its going to feel like the cyber space and the one year passing stuff is going to have little impact on the overall tmnt story. Splinter will be restored, the foot will be no more, and Serling will be back in 2105. They should have just finished FF season 2 and then squeezed the turtles going back to the present and the Casey and April wedding into the DTV movie. I know many people don't like FF but an additional season would have felt like a better series final (if this is indeed the last season) than the one were getting.

Drtooth

11-18-2008, 02:40 PM

Agreed. Seems that FF found its voice halfway towards the end. But as I have constantly said, they didn't know their wasn't going to be a second/third season of FF, and they wrote the series to reflect that. I mean, they clearly had something amazing with Darius and the Dark Turtles that would have happened. I really wish that they would work that in near the end of the series. But they probably won't.

Mandi-chan

11-18-2008, 03:44 PM

I've been pretty unimpressed with this season (just as I was with FF...), and really only liked the "Hacking Stockman" episode and that was it.

Everything else has been weak. Lazily written, lazily animated, and pure childish garbage if you ask me.

For me, the show I loved to watch on the weekend ended with Season 5 (The Lost Season)...

ZariusTwo

11-18-2008, 04:04 PM

In short, FF and BTTS are pretty much just THIS

d0VaJSTKywY

Buslady

11-18-2008, 04:07 PM

Although I believe BTTS is better than FF(save for a few moments) BTTS isn't that great. Get some character development in with the action, great. So far...it's been blah.

Sage Ninja

11-18-2008, 06:27 PM

I guess I'll be the lone ranger and say that I'm still enjoying Back to the sewers and don't hate it, despite the crappiness of this past week's episode.

terran631

11-18-2008, 06:28 PM

For some reason I keep getting the feeling that the writers read what fans are criticizing and then find some way to just throw in whatever it seems they've been lacking. I'm pretty sure that's not the case but,

For example:
I've heard dozens of people ask where Klunk was. What happened to Klunk. And then BINGO, Klunk appears. Although there's no explanation on where he was or how he survived the year with the turtles gone. It's another "you have to pretend that he was with Casey and April the whole time. The writers just don't have time to mention it."

Second example:
I've heard dozens of people complain about the lack of teamwork in finding Splinter. Especially the ep with the Shrinking Serling where Don went into the cyberworld alone to find Splinter while the others went out to have a good time. BINGO. Leo explains, pretty poorly IMO, that he feels he can't help Don. To which I reply BULLSHI...uh yeh...

Third example:
People wondered where the heck Serling was. Why bother to bring him to the past and then never use him? BINGO. Serling gets some screeen time. Although, I STILL don't know why they didn't just find some way to kill him or have him lose power or something. But there he was for a brief moment.

SO yeh, it seems like the writers are trying to plug plotholes that they never considered before. And they're not doing a very good job of it.
Really, this whole season reminds me of a badly thought out fanfic, thrown together quickly. The fic has a great first chapter, and maybe great last chapter, and maybe a wonderful premise. But the author has no CLUE how to get from first to last so he just throws stuff out that's randomly amusing to some and hope it gets positively reviewed. And when a reviewer calls the author on bad plot points, the author explains it in the next chapter with a brief monologue.
Any other fanfic writers/readers get this feeling?

Coola Yagami

11-18-2008, 06:43 PM

That could be the case, expect of course, all 13 episodes were already made. It's not like they're still making the episodes as we speak and trying to correct the flaws they read about on the Technodrome forums each week.

terran631

11-18-2008, 06:49 PM

Heh. hence, I said...Probably not the case :lol:
And Did I imagine someone saying that they hadn't made all 13 shows at the beginning of the season? Still pretty sure they're not making it up as they go along, even if that were the case. That's just how this season "reads."

Sage Ninja

11-18-2008, 07:03 PM

except that in order for these episodes to even be animated or story boarded the episode already has to be written out and recorded before they air. In other words it was already plotted out and was going to happen any way but it didn't get mentioned in that particular episode.

So what we have is people seeing one episode calling out details that where not adressed in the episode when the only reason for that is the episode with the missing detail hadn't been aired yet.

I mean come on there is a process to episodes. Do you really think in the time one episode was aired one saturday that the writers, animators, and recording crew had a chance to look at the fans reactions, isolate the complaints we issued in the epiosde that aired that past saturday, then quickly write up a flimsy excuse explaining the plot hole, get all the animators to crank out another episode explaining away the lost detail and call the actors back to record their lines so the plot hole is explained away by the next episode to the following saturday?

I think what is going on is that because this show only comes on once a week we have to much time to call out details that haven't been adressed yet and looks like they are being sloppy. If the episodes came on all week long back to back each day I think there would be less of a jarring gap between when this happened and then happened, because they would be right on top of each other and look like it takes less time to address one detail or explain one thing.

Don't get me wrong I'm not defending the the poor coverage of the turtles reactions to Splinter death, I'm just talking about the small details like where is Klunk? Or where is Serling? Why hasn't Stockman showed up yet? Which the answer is, they just haven't gotten to that point yet in the season where that gets covered. So just because I haven't seen Karai or Bishiop or Leatherhead I'm not going to throw a hissy fit yet because the season not done yet and I might see them yet.

I also think the reason (or maybe pareticially) why the turtles reactions aren't being explored more with Splinter bits exploding is because there isn't enough time to cover it properly because there is so much more things and plot points and events to go through that some emotional development. I feel this season is more driven in connecting the dots and getting all the stuff thrown out there, and I think this has to do with the short number of episodes this season has. Season five suffered from this and it would have been better if there was more episodes to get to like the new character (the tribunal and acolytes) that where being thrown at us.

Though it doesn't excuse why this season is dicking around with stupid mindless filler epiosdes that acomplish nothing like the Serling episode and this super quest episode, since this is only a 13 epiosde season. So in that regard I understand where every one is coming from.

edit: sorry I wrote this p[ost after Terrans post but didn't realize whisle I was typing coolayagam had already called you on the fan fic theory.

Machias Banshee

11-18-2008, 07:31 PM

What concerns me most with this season is that we have "two" episodes left - we don't know yet if City Under Siege is going to be a multi-parter or not. There's a huge amount of loose ends to tie up.

Either they're going to have one hell of a final arc (or movie, I don't know what the latest rumor about that is), or we're going to be left hanging on a lot of things. Hell, if I had a fanfic like this in the works, I'd go a heck of a lot longer in the storytelling than this...

This whole year of tmnt stuff just seems to be tripping over its own feet...

terran631

11-18-2008, 07:32 PM

Don't get me wrong I'm not defending the the poor coverage of the turtles reactions to Splinter death, I'm just talking about the small details like where is Klunk? Or where is Serling? Why hasn't Stockman showed up yet? Which the answer is, they just haven't gotten to that point yet in the season where that gets covered. So just because I haven't seen Karai or Bishiop or Leatherhead I'm not going to throw a hissy fit yet because the season not done yet and I might see them yet.

And this is what makes the writing look sloppy, jumpy, and poorly constructed. No, I wasn't serious about the writers using the reviews of the fans to write the series, and perhaps reserving judgement until the end is the best way to go about. But throwing all of the details, that should have been addressed throughout the season, at the end of the season is just...BAD writing. If they were going to explain that Leo feels "helpless" in finding Splinter, that Should have been addressed from the beginning and not eight eps in.
Why was everyone ok with Don going into the cyberworld alone, but in Identity Crisis, Raph mentions how dangerous it is, and Leo mentions how it's great that April's watching their backs? What? Don wasn't important enough from them to watch out for until now?
As for Bishop, Leatherhead and Karai, I don't mind so much that they haven't shown up. But I have the feeling that even if Karai DID show up, they won't bother explaining how she lost control of the Foot Clan except in a brief monologue where she says, "I just didn't feel like leading them anymore."

Ryona

11-18-2008, 07:38 PM

For someone who hasn't even seen this new series called "Back to the Sewers", is it worth it for me to download what I've missed and catch this series when it airs? Or is complete garbage like "Fast Forward" and should be avoided?
I wouldn't mind having one more thing to look forward to on tv other than HEROES, so let me know.

Ninjinister

11-18-2008, 07:41 PM

Given what I know of you, Ryona, I don't think you'll like it - especially since I know (in addition to what you've just typed) how much you despised Fast Forward.

Raven

11-18-2008, 07:47 PM

This season is more or less just blah, not bad but not good either. I would say at best its medicore.

It has a few moments that almost make it worth watching, but with the light heart, soft story style it wont last much longer.

Then again TMNT has been limping on for quite awhile, I think it has had a good run. I say let it die, stay out of the lime light for awhile so we can all refresh when a new series comes on. Because this one died out way to quick.

Cipher

11-18-2008, 09:50 PM

Then again TMNT has been limping on for quite awhile, I think it has had a good run. I say let it die, stay out of the lime light for awhile so we can all refresh when a new series comes on. Because this one died out way to quick.Do people not understand how amazing it is for a kids' cartoon, or hell, any show to last seven seasons?

And yes, I'm all for letting the show end its run at this point.

Tora_Chan

11-18-2008, 11:18 PM

I'll have to agree with the others who said that BTTS is pretty blah. Even the better episodes don't make me want to see them again anytime soon. And the decline in the animation quality is just painful when you watch episodes from the first 4 seasons. It was much more detailed and smoother and looked better as a whole. BTTS just comes of as cheap, especially with those scenes from the earlier seasons cut in nilly-willy.

As for Karai, Bishop and Leatherhead, of course people expect to see them again. Not only were they important characters back in the earlier seasons, but with Karai and Leatherhead we were shown new designs. And of course we want some kind of explanation as to what happened to Karai and why this Khan guy is now leading the foot. And Leatherhead is a friend of the turtles, surely they would go looking for him after being gone for a year?

As for Bishop, I doubt we'll see him again, because the writers wrote themselves into a corner with revealing in FF that Bishop will turn good someday. They probably didn't expect the turtles to return to the present until the end of FF and then only as some kind of final episode of the show. They didn't consider that the guys would have a complettly new season just in the present where Bishop is still a bad guy. So how would the turtles react if they meet him again in the present, knowing that in the future he will turn into a good guy?

ZariusTwo

11-18-2008, 11:33 PM

Do people not understand how amazing it is for a kids' cartoon, or hell, any show to last seven seasons?

And yes, I'm all for letting the show end its run at this point.

Nevermind also that shows that go past seven tend to outstay their welcome and are on their last legs. Television series age like domestic animals. Some dogs can go past the standard limit, but it's painful to see him or her struggle on with a decaying body.

ZariusTwo

11-18-2008, 11:35 PM

And of course we want some kind of explanation as to what happened to Karai and why this Khan guy is now leading the foot.

I'm going to state this in bold "what's the point? This will fly over people's heads anyway" caps.

KARAI SETTLED DOWN WITH CHAPLIN. THERE. THERE'S YOUR EXPLANATION, STOP LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY WAS SETTLED IN THE LOST SEASON.

Jester

11-18-2008, 11:37 PM

I'd still like the second half, to see how Khan rose to lead the NY Foot.

Coola Yagami

11-18-2008, 11:41 PM

Tora_Chan

11-19-2008, 04:24 AM

But that's exactly the point of WHY they need to make another Bishop episode. To see HOW they'd react upon meeting him again.

But as I said, I don't think they actually will ever adress this issue because it's too complicated for a show as shallow as BTTS.

KARAI SETTLED DOWN WITH CHAPLIN. THERE. THERE'S YOUR EXPLANATION, STOP LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY WAS SETTLED IN THE LOST SEASON.

And Karai and Chaplin can't be a couple and still work for the Foot why exactly? Being with Chaplin and leading the Foot isn't mutally exclusive. I mean, would April and Casey stop fighting along side the turtles just because they get married?

VaughnMichael

11-19-2008, 04:36 AM

The Foot have a strict no dating employee's rule and this is why they decided to leave.:P

Tomoshibi Amatsu

11-19-2008, 06:03 AM

I still like BTTS but I find it hard to believe they'll end everything in just 13 episodes. It would just seem too rushed.

gobo

11-19-2008, 06:17 AM

Better now than when they get to the season with a different celebrity guest-star in each episode. I dunno which I'd hate more, the Paris Hilton ep or the Mylie Cyrus ep.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2008, 07:18 AM

Yeah, it's not like Karai is gonna be like 'Uh sorry guys, I'm goin out with nerd-boy here, so I don't have time to play with you anymore.' and the Foot all bow their heads and walks off sadly.

They should explain exactly how Khan took control from Karai, and also if Karai did leave the Foot, how the Foot took it.

Ninjafromanotherseries

11-19-2008, 08:14 AM

Khans foot is different from Karais foot. I think Karai disbanded foot after Tengu Shedder or they moved to Japan.

Remember during the Shedder War there were two different costumed foot soldiers fighting. But still it doesn´t explain who Khan is and why he loves Shedder so much.

Cipher

11-19-2008, 09:46 AM

Anyone with a little intuitive thinking can infer what happened to Karai, if we don't see her again. There are really two options.

A) Seeing the New York Foot decimated (killed?) by the Tengu Shredder, she returned to Japan to head the main Foot Organization as she had done before. This leaves Khan on his own to rebuild the New York Foot with no ties to the main organization. It's pretty similar to the City At War storyline in the comics.

B) Karai had a change of heart and actually did disband the Foot, which still leaves Khan to create his own New York branch.

But still it doesn´t explain who Khan is and why he loves Shedder so much. A) He's a former Elite, all of whom were insanely loyal to Shredder. The fact that the Elite theme music plays everytime Khan shows up is a hint.

B) He and Shredder engaged an act-against-God-Utrom-on-Human relationship at some point.

Ninjinister

11-19-2008, 09:56 AM

B) He and Shredder engaged an act-against-God-Utrom-on-Human relationship at some point.

Oh God... I'm having Monsieur Mallah flashbacks right now.... :dead:

Shred Head

11-19-2008, 10:52 AM

In short, FF and BTTS are pretty much just THIS

d0VaJSTKywY

I would have said Dragonball GT but that probraly suits it better.

To me the series end was the Lost Season it pretty much wrapped everything up. I was fine with that season it wasn't the best but it didn't feel like a completely diffrent show. I dont hate FF and BttS I take them for what they are and try to enjoy them despite there flaws. although I refused to put them in continity with the 2K3.

Sadly unlike Gargoyles we wont be getting a comic that wipes away the crappy seasons.

Jester

11-19-2008, 11:19 AM

In short, FF and BTTS are pretty much just THIS

d0VaJSTKywY

Ok, I can totally see that, but again The Goliath Chronicles had a few decent episodes. I especially liked The Dying of the Light, but I always had a soft spot for Hudson.

Drtooth

11-19-2008, 12:28 PM

Nevermind also that shows that go past seven tend to outstay their welcome and are on their last legs. Television series age like domestic animals. Some dogs can go past the standard limit, but it's painful to see him or her struggle on with a decaying body.

Though it wouldn't hurt to end it on a bigger note than what we're gonna get. I'd be totally okay if this show were to end this season if they didn't treat half the episodes like they should be on Nick Jr. or something.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I think they flew too close to the sun with episodes like "Insane in the Membrane" and "Nightmares Recycled." Somehow, that seems like the reason why FF and half of BTTS have been so light and lacking violence.

Ninjinister

11-19-2008, 12:50 PM

I don't know about anyone else here, but I think they flew too close to the sun with episodes like "Insane in the Membrane" and "Nightmares Recycled." Somehow, that seems like the reason why FF and half of BTTS have been so light and lacking violence.

I think that's the exact reason. The censors made their wax wings melt.

Drtooth

11-19-2008, 01:04 PM

I think that's the exact reason. The censors made their wax wings melt.

They made their wax something melt... not so much their wings....

mumbo230

11-19-2008, 04:17 PM

BTTS has the opposite problem FF had - it started off well and has since stumbled and more or less collapsed. FF started off pretty slow and bad but picked up speed and turned out pretty good for the second half.

I really liked the premise we had presented with Tempus Fugit, how the Turtles see the Shredder war and got some hints at what would happen in the near future, and then I figured the season would build toward that. But the season hasn't done nearly enough of that - it's just been these half-assed campy episodes making up the bulk of it.

I'm perfectly happy with it ending this season. I think there are less major loose ends left than people think. Bishop, Karai, Utrom Shredder, Tengu Shredder, they're resolved - aside from the latter two appearing in the Shredder war. We don't need to see the Ninja Tribunal again, we don't need to see the Justice Force again, we don't need to see Garbageman again, and so on. Honestly what's there that's all that important left to tie up beside the Foot/Purple Dragon conflict, Cyber Shredder being defeated, and Splinter being reassembled. Just cinch up the end of this season with the Shredder war and that should be enough. And I don't count the Rat King as an important loose end, face it we're not seeing him again.

Having a year off didn't exactly help the quality of the show. I wasn't expecting it to return to form but I was expecting better than this anyway.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2008, 06:13 PM

Well.. Utrom Shredder and Tengu Shredder somehow return for that Shredder war. Cyber Shredder is there. We can only assume that Khan and Cyber Shredder were leading the Cyber Foot while maybe Karai was leading the regular Foot? Leatherhead should be seen again. The Bishop issue should be faced. He's still out there and he's still planning stuff. He isn't just gonna go away. Hell, maybe another ep can end with Baxter returning with Bishop which will help set things off for what will eventually happen in Fast Forward.

Remember guys, once we saw Chrell on that asteroid we thought that plot was resolved. Once we saw Tengu Shredder defeated by Yoshi, we thought that plot was resolved. Now suddenly they're back? It's not over till it's over. Same could be said for the others. Like I said.. at the very LEAST, we need to see how Khan got control of the Foot away from Karai.

Cipher

11-19-2008, 06:36 PM

The Bishop issue should be faced. He's still out there and he's still planning stuff.Just like he was for two-hundred years before he even met the Turtles. If there's any character who doesn't need to come back, it's Bishop. Yes, he's out there torturing aliens, but if his path doesn't cross the Turtles again, no one's going to do anything about it. He's not out for global domination or anything.

Remember guys, once we saw Chrell on that asteroid we thought that plot was resolved. Once we saw Tengu Shredder defeated by Yoshi, we thought that plot was resolved. Now suddenly they're back? I have two bets, and if neither one is right, I'll eat my hat.

A) Serling's Time Window brings them back from the past.

B) They're digitial copies brought into the real world.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2008, 07:15 PM

If they were, then Cyber Shredder messed up big time seeing that were went out of his control.

CyberCubed

11-19-2008, 08:17 PM

B) They're digitial copies brought into the real world.

This is what I thought too. Its quite possible the Demon and Utrom Shredder are just virtual versions and not the "real" ones.

I'm sure some people will be disappointed if that's true, but that's a very likely scenario.

VaughnMichael

11-19-2008, 10:16 PM

B) They're digitial copies brought into the real world.
That the one I'd place my bet on.

bmxbandit

11-19-2008, 10:23 PM

i'm still enticed.

ZariusTwo

11-19-2008, 11:24 PM

Bishop is planning stuff, but it has nothing to do with the Turtles, more what he's always done and always will be doing, even as President.

And Karai has settled down with the man she loves. Fact.

Coola Yagami

11-20-2008, 06:19 AM

And Karai has settled down with the man she loves. Fact.

True, but she still leads the Foot. Or at least before Khan took over. That still needs to be explained at least via flashback. I mean, Karai was Shredder's adopted daughter, so who is Khan and with what right does he take over? And if Khan was leading the CyberFoot in Tempus Fugit... who was leading the regular Foot?

Casual Matt

11-20-2008, 06:39 AM

True, but she still leads the Foot. Or at least before Khan took over. That still needs to be explained at least via flashback. I mean, Karai was Shredder's adopted daughter, so who is Khan and with what right does he take over? And if Khan was leading the CyberFoot in Tempus Fugit... who was leading the regular Foot?

I still believe Khan is the Elite Ninja who led the New York Foot during "City At War". I also think he took control because Karai left New York. Some believe she and Chaplin went off looking for Ch'rell, which is possible, but I'd say she at least went back to Japan.

As far as the Foot in The Shredder War goes, I'd say the Utrom Shredder was leading the older style Foot Ninja. Whether or not you believe he was the real deal, Ch'rell was there in some form.

Of course, that's all just my theory on the matter. If it's never explained, it'll be my fanon.

Drtooth

11-20-2008, 07:36 AM

And Karai has settled down with the man she loves. Fact.

Agreed... written off... gone... It would have been great to see her other than that 5 second cameo... but she's moved on.

Bishop however, I really think he needs to be addressed some how. Even if it's just a cameo or something.

Only other thing I have a big problem with is I really want to see some closure from FF. Darius somehow finding the turtles are gone, and Cody is defenseless, leading to the Dark turtles coming to their senses and defeating him once and for all.

Coola Yagami

11-20-2008, 07:46 AM

Still need to see how Khan took control away from Karai... even if it's another 5 second flashback.... Why bother making a new BTTS design for her, for 5 seconds??

They'd probably send Serling back like 2 minutes before they left 2105 in the last episode to continue to defend Cody from Dun. Of course, another thing could be done to make sure Darius Dun never achieved control of O'Neil Tech to begin with now that they know he was an asshole.

ZariusTwo

11-22-2008, 04:11 AM

True, but she still leads the Foot.

Who said she did?

It's pretty obvious she disbanded The Foot after The Ninja Tribunal ended. By "settling down", I meant she settled down into a regular life.

VaughnMichael

11-22-2008, 05:56 AM

Only other thing I have a big problem with is I really want to see some closure from FF. Darius somehow finding the turtles are gone, and Cody is defenseless, leading to the Dark turtles coming to their senses and defeating him once and for all.
I'd like to see that as well.
Still need to see how Khan took control away from Karai... even if it's another 5 second flashback.... Why bother making a new BTTS design for her, for 5 seconds??
Because they've done it with all sorts of characters in this series, especially in this season.

CyberCubed

11-22-2008, 12:56 PM

I always did think it was odd that we got new designs for Leatherhead, Karai, Silver Sentry, etc. yet they didn't really appear this season.

Perhaps they'll all be at April/Casey's wedding in the last ep? That would explain the new designs.

Drtooth

11-22-2008, 02:35 PM

I'd like to see that as well.

Listen... If there was one thing I wish they would have cleared away was what happened with Darius and the Dark Turtles. It's just gonna be a dangling part of the series that may just have a quick tie up at the end if anything. Which is why I think they should compromise and make a 6 episode miniseason or another DTV separate from the 25th anniversary one.

Vivi

02-10-2009, 10:45 AM

You wanna know the worst thing about BttS? They axed a potentially good season for it. In FF season 2 we were going to get a Space Usagi arc, Triceraton Shredder (Ch'rell was probably rescued by Zuko or some other Triceraton gang), Stockman finally getting a new body, a possible reappearance of the Necros Monster from Darkness Within (that's if that portrait painting of Don and Cody fighting it in Identity Crisis is anything to go by) and the conclusion to the Darius Dunn, Dark TMNT, and Torbin Zixx stories. That stuff was going to wrap up some loose ends and add to the tmnt universe unlike most of the stuff were getting in BttS.

They should have just finished FF season 2 and then squeezed the turtles going back to the present and the Casey and April wedding into the DTV movie. I know many people don't like FF but an additional season would have felt like a better series final (if this is indeed the last season) than the one were getting.

I think that would have been a great idea. I was wary of FF at first, but couldn't help but find myself really enjoying them. I think if it were given the chance, some of the best episodes could have been made, and it would have tied in seamlessly to BTTS. It was really getting into its stride with the last episode (Zixxth Sense).