Ah, I think I know why TMNT got the shaft

[clockstomper]

Because Playmates now has the Terminator and Star Trek licenses now. So the TMNT line gets dumb ideas like Music Turtles made from old movie figure sculpts because Playmates wants to put it's real effort into it's more lucrative licenses. Music Turtles are probably just an intentional bomb in order to provide bad numbers to Mirage to justify canceling the line.

The cancellation of the toon is probably their doing as well. I remember Murphy mentioning Playmates had veto power in terms of ideas for Season 8 of the toon. This indicates Playmate has power over the cartoon's direction because it relies on their funding. Hence we got eyes on the Turtles in BTTS because Playmates didn't want to make new sculpts.

Now that Playmates have Terminator and Star Trek, they're probably withdrawing their funding of BttS and are responsible for the cancellation. Their influence has really been detrimental to the franchise since around the time they pushed for Fast Forward to be put ahead of Season 5. I wonder what changed in the company at that point to make them suddenly want to interfere with the creative process. The failure of their over-produced Paleo Patrol line? New management?

Now they're tossing TMNT to the curb, after using them to stay afloat over the last 5 years. Once they're out of movie figures to do for the Terminator and Star Trek franchises, what then?

[Toonami Tom]

I think you might be right. Mirage shouldn't let Playmates have that kind of control though.

Now, even if they are going to just focus on Terminator and Star Trek, I still don't expect anything spectacular. They will probably look like Mattel's The Dark Knight figures, passable, but nothing that great.

Hasbro makes the best figures, IMO.

Edit: I wanted to add that Mattel's Movie Masters The Dark Knight figures are awesome, it's their basic 5" Batman figures that are not spectacular.

[Drtooth]

Because Playmates now has the Terminator and Star Trek licenses now. So the TMNT line gets dumb ideas like Music Turtles made from old movie figure sculpts because Playmates wants to put it's real effort into it's more lucrative licenses. Music Turtles are probably just an intentional bomb in order to provide bad numbers to Mirage to justify canceling the line.

The cancellation of the toon is probably their doing as well. I remember Murphy mentioning Playmates had veto power in terms of ideas for Season 8 of the toon. This indicates Playmate has power over the cartoon's direction because it relies on their funding. Hence we got eyes on the Turtles in BTTS because Playmates didn't want to make new sculpts.

Yeah, but once the Extreme Sports Geordie LaForge and Battle Knight Terminator figures come out, then we'll see whos who.

[Toonami Tom]

lol, yeah there's probably going to be all kinds of goofy variants for Terminator and Star Trek.

Playmates is so lazy, I wouldn't be too surprised if they bought the Christian Bale 'Bruce Wayne' sculpt from Mattel and re-packaged it as John Connor.

[Drtooth]

Playmates is so lazy, I wouldn't be too surprised if they bought the Christian Bale 'Bruce Wayne' sculpt from Mattel and re-packaged it as John Connor.

Playmates is so lazy, I wouldn't be surprised if the John Conner figure was a Michelangelo painted flesh tone.

[Andrew NDB]

Because Playmates now has the Terminator and Star Trek licenses now. So the TMNT line gets dumb ideas like Music Turtles made from old movie figure sculpts because Playmates wants to put it's real effort into it's more lucrative licenses. Music Turtles are probably just an intentional bomb in order to provide bad numbers to Mirage to justify canceling the line.

Evil Playmates, how dare they cancel the line. It's a conspiracy, to sabotage themselves and get back at the Mean Mr. Laird! And I bet they secretly hate the TMNT!

Now they're tossing TMNT to the curb, after using them to stay afloat over the last 5 years.

Yes, Playmates OWES the TMNT a lifetime pact, even if they're losing money and the show's ratings are in the toilet.

:roll:

Once they're out of movie figures to do for the Terminator and Star Trek franchises, what then?

Going out on a limb here... maybe the next big toddler/children thing, whatever it may be?

[CyberCubed]

Playmates is a disgrace. What a way to treat the franchise that put you on the map.

[Jester]

Playmates is so lazy, I wouldn't be surprised if the John Conner figure was a Michelangelo painted flesh tone.
Playmates is so lazy I wonder if the Star Trek figures will just be re-packaged '90s original series figures.

Man I smell a new thread..."Playmates is so lazy..."

[Andrew NDB]

Playmates is a disgrace. What a way to treat the franchise that put you on the map.

Yes, those evil creeps at Playmates. They should continue selling toys that no one is buying, they owe the TMNT for life! I bet they DO hate the TMNT! Probably TMNT fans too. That's the only explanation.

[Blade Raider]

Man I smell a new thread..."Playmates is so lazy..."
A smack talk thread about Playmates...guess they are useful for something afterall:lol:

[Jester]

Yes, those evil creeps at Playmates. They should continue selling toys that no one is buying, they owe the TMNT for life! I bet they DO hate the TMNT! Probably TMNT fans too. That's the only explanation.
That's just it Andy Cap, Playmates continues to make asinine variations on 4 figures, if they would make the secondary characters that have yet to be immortalized in plastic I'm sure those would sell. I know when i was a kid, my parents were always very much against the numerous variants, but had no problems with new secondary characters.

[Ninjinister]

I'm not convinced they're wholly the reason the entire franchise is teetering on the toilet lid, but yes, Playmates is the reason the toys are not selling, not the consumer. They obviously don't want to buy crap, which is all Playmates is selling, and when they finally have a chance to do things right (i.e., new Back to the Sewer figures)... they hold onto them until the series is almost over, and then make them look vastly different from their on-screen counterparts to boot.

[Roseangelo]

I'm not convinced they're wholly the reason the entire franchise is teetering on the toilet lid

Nope, they're not. Gary Richardson's lack of business skills and Peter Laird's ignorance of Gary's lack of business skills are the reason the entire franchise is teetering on a toilet lid.

As horrible as everything coming out of Playmates is, it's all pretty much because they focus on kissing Peter's ass more than anything else (and in addition to just being cheap and lazy). If you read the old blog posts about the Music Turtles you can pretty much see that's what's happening.

[Andrew NDB]

That's just it Andy Cap, Playmates continues to make asinine variations on 4 figures, if they would make the secondary characters that have yet to be immortalized in plastic I'm sure those would sell.

Yes, that makes perfect business sense to any toy company: the primary characters' figures don't sell anymore, but if we make figures of the secondary characters, we'll surely be raking in the dough.

[Jester]

When you have 20 diffrent Turtle varients warming a peg, why not make a NEW character?

[Andrew NDB]

Just a hunch... because the times they've put secondary characters' figures on the shelves they only sold a fraction of what the main TMNT figures' sold? And now even those aren't selling anymore?

[Roseangelo]

Just a hunch... because the times they've put secondary characters' figures on the shelves they only sold a fraction of what the main TMNT figures' sold? And now even those aren't selling anymore?

I kinda agree with Andrew. It'd be nice if they threw out more secondary characters, but the fact is that it's Turtles that sell.

That said, it is absolutely, positively NOT necessary for the stupid variants that they do make. There are SO many different kinds of Turtle figures they could make without resorting to stupid costumes.

[Jester]

Gee...I can't believe I didn't see it before. Gah, you're right. No one wants other characters. Just keep making random nonsensical variations of the same four characters over and over again, with no new villains or allies. I can have my Sewer Swimmin' Raph fight my Monster Raisin' Raph, no need for variety, save in the kinds of Turtles I have fight one another. Gah, I feel so stupid. Thanks for setting me straight Handy Andy.



EDIT: All I'm saying is the new waves of TMNT figures are the Turtles and...what? Nothing. No foe to fight. Just the Turtles.

[Ninjinister]

Secondary characters seem to sell out pretty quickly in these parts, and not just when I'm there, lol. I've been at a Target when the figures were put on their pegs, gleamed what I could afford (leaving behind a lot of secondaries), and returned the next week with more money, only to find Turtle variants left. Every time I see kids buying TMNT figures, it's either secondary characters or non-variant Turtles, unless there is no other option (like the kid I mentioned in that other topic that wanted BttS Raphael, but grudgingly accepted Alien Hunter Raph in its place). Hell, even the fugly Thrasmor doesn't sit on pegs as long as Turtle variants. And don't get me started on the Paleo Patrol Leo that's been at my local Toys R' Us since before Fast Forward figures arrived (and not the second shipment of Paleo Patrols that went out to TRU's for whatever reason).

I can't say this for the rest of the country/world, but I do know that in Tacoma, it's hard to nab even the most common secondaries.

EDIT: I agree with Rose wholeheartedly on one thing; if they are going to make Turtle variants, don't make them with random dumb costumes and gear. Why the hell do the Turtles need eighty kinds of gear to wrangle monsters/mutants/robots/aliens? There's always Civies Turtles, SaiNW Turtles, Super Turtles (which technically could be considered secondary characters as well), Foot Turtles... I'm pretty sure I can think of more. Plus they could just do new sculpts and sometimes action features for non-costumed Turtles. I still say that Playmates should look more at the Star Wars figure business model; they release the most obscure characters, and still deliver variants of the main ones without resorting to Birthday Party Luke, Dinosaur Hunter Qui Gon, or Squid Costume Vader.

[Roseangelo]

EDIT: All I'm saying is the new waves of TMNT figures are the Turtles and...what? Nothing. No foe to fight. Just the Turtles.

The new figures are ****, plain and simple. As such, I can't find myself bothered with the lack of secondary characters.

[Andrew NDB]

I can't say this for the rest of the country/world, but I do know that in Tacoma, it's hard to nab even the most common secondaries.

You must live very deep into Tacoma, because I live in Kent and in between us lies Federal Way... and two very excellent comic/hobby/toy stores that carry everything (and what they don't, they can special order).

[Ninjinister]

You must live very deep into Tacoma, because I live in Kent and in between us lies Federal Way... and two very excellent comic/hobby/toy stores that carry everything (and what they don't, they can special order).

I rarely venture outside the city limits. I'm not even counting Lakewood into this equation, because I can't even remember the last time I was out there. I'm strictly talking Tacoma proper.

[Coola Yagami]

I agree, they need to sell variants of the Turtles, to keep the main 4 of the line out there. BUT each new wave SHOULD include secondary characters along with it. Or at the very least... spread the variants out a bit more. I mean in the older line they gave variants to Splinter, April, Bebop and Rocksteady, not just the Turtles and Shredder all the time. We are overdue for a Khan figure, and as for variants, use the ones the series already has like Fast Forward Bishop, Ch'rell Shredder, Regular-outfit Karai, and the new kinds of Foot and Elite that were working under Karai, the new forms of the Mystics, etc etc etc etc!!!!

[VaughnMichael]

Didja get bored and venture into the toy section today Andrew?
Can't say I've seen you in these here parts before.

Regarding Playmates figures, it's old already we know they suck at most everything they make, they are stuck in the past with how they make toys and produce their merch as well.
It's either move forward or sink under, and it's pretty evident what they chose to do with TMNT.
Stores aren't stupid and they pay attention to their sales on each brand.
I'm not saying this is all playmates fault but they are part of the problem.
It goes much deeper than just Playmates though.
They had a change in power not to long ago so that could count for why things are not on the up and up with them anymore and being stuck in old ways.

They are however being a thorn in the side when it comes to Mirage wanting to do cool things, every time they want to do something interesting even a turtle variant they turn them down but hey lets do music turtles or dino turtles for the 20th time now.

[Drtooth]

EDIT: All I'm saying is the new waves of TMNT figures are the Turtles and...what? Nothing. No foe to fight. Just the Turtles.

They could have at least not short packed half the various others half the time in the original 2k3 line. I swear, I had to wade through hundreds of weird varients to find one dang Baxter Stockman. And hallf the time I didn't even see those other figures.

I do remember the first wave of Muppet figures, Bunsen and Dr. Teeth were shortpacked beneath at least twice as many Piggy's and Kermits... and the Piggy's never really sold. Bunsen became hard to find for a while.

Regarding Playmates figures, it's old already we know they suck at most everything they make, they are stuck in the past with how they make toys and produce their merch as well.
It's either move forward or sink under, and it's pretty evident what they chose to do with TMNT.
Stores aren't stupid and they pay attention to their sales on each brand.
I'm not saying this is all playmates fault but they are part of the problem.
It goes much deeper than just Playmates though.
They had a change in power not to long ago so that could count for why things are not on the up and up with them anymore and being stuck in old ways.

That really sucks... you either have some fuddy duddy stuck in their old ways or some new blood that doesn't even care working things out. I have to say the fact that they tried the miniturtles were an improvement. Collectible small variant turtles are much better than large single turtle varients... at least they package the villains with them so you have something to play with or display.

I have to say, even the 2k3 stuff wasn't too bad until half way through. Sure, they were cheaply made and weren't the best, but they sold for blowout prices. 5-6 bucks a figure was and still is unheard of. But when they decided that the movie line had to be bigger and cost upwards of twice as much, they shot themselves royally in the foot. I don't think the movie figures sucked royally, just that size didn't justify 8-10 bucks per figure. They could have at least added some sort of reptilian texturing to the turtle's flesh parts (like the 90's movie line... just without the rubbery plastic they used).

But, fugeddaboudit. They had a chance to pull the line up by its bootstraps, rectify everything and make a new product line similar to the 2k3/FF smaller, cheaper figures (I mean, they could have completely reused the FF figures to make BTTS ones, and they would still be pretty accurate- plus it uses a lot less plastic) , but the decided to slide by on their butts by shoving small bits of metallic plastic on the shells and say they're "Cyber varients."

[Andrew NDB]

Didja get bored and venture into the toy section today Andrew?
Can't say I've seen you in these here parts before.

Two reasons. One, to see if anyone knew when the hell the Shredder/Foot NECA stuff is coming out, and two, to post about the custom figure I'm having made.

[Archon_Turtle]

How many threads are we going to make so we can continue to say that playmates is a worthless company? I'm just sayin...

Two reasons. One, to see if anyone knew when the hell the Shredder/Foot NECA stuff is coming out, and two, to post about the custom figure I'm having made.

Nobody knows what is going on with NECA. Least of all Mirage. Murphy is jumping through all sorts of hoops just trying to find out if the stupid company is still in business...including asking people from other companies who have worked with them in the past if THEY know whats going on with them. It's Retarded.

[Poweranimals]

Why don't they make a Mutanimals show?

[VaughnMichael]

Two reasons. One, to see if anyone knew when the hell the Shredder/Foot NECA stuff is coming out, and two, to post about the custom figure I'm having made.
No one at Mirage even knows when the NECA figures are coming out it's pretty much dead in the water.

[Andrew NDB]

Well **** me, that's lame. I had plans for those figures.

[Ninjinister]

Well **** me, that's lame. I had plans for those figures.

As did I, bro. I've been trying to get some scoop on NECA,trying to find what's what, and I'm coming up dry. One thing's for sure, they haven't closed their doors... they just announced Street Fighter IV figures for February.

[VaughnMichael]

As did I, bro. I've been trying to get some scoop on NECA,trying to find what's what, and I'm coming up dry. One thing's for sure, they haven't closed their doors... they just announced Street Fighter IV figures for February.
Why am I smelling that Gary stench again... hmmm..or could it be playmates giving NECA a hard time again hmmm..
Ine things for damn sure if we don't find out before Feb. what's going on with NECA they are going to get an ear full at the New York City Comicon.:evil:

[tOkKa]

http://www.bunrab.com/dailyfeed/dailyfeed_images_aug-06/df06_08-06_tripe.jpg

[Hero]

I'm confused by your post Tokka.

In any case. What can we actually do about the current situation with Playmates?

===HERO

[Sewer Bull]

I was traumatized to see this thread's title, LOL.

[Andrew NDB]

http://www.eced-resources.com/pineconepeanutbutter.jpg

[Ninjinister]

I'm confused by your post Tokka.

It's a visual pun. The picture is a load of tripe.

[Hero]

That explains a lot.

===HERO

[Machias Banshee]

It's really kinda sad.

Money trumps everything.

[Andrew NDB]

Money trumps everything.

This is something profound, how?

If a movie doesn't sell tickets, it dosen't get a sequel. If a comic sells poorly, it gets cancelled. If a line of jewelry doesn't fly off the shelves, it's discontinued. If a toy line ain't selling, it gets canned.

That people expect some kind of blind loyalty from Playmates to the TMNT and TMNT fans -- while the toys are losing money, even as we head further into a full-blown recession where companies are going under and people losing their jobs by the truckload, and people are spending less and less -- is beyond absurd.

[CudleyCowlick]

Why don't they make a Mutanimals show?

They tried to, it even got pretty far into production. But that ship sailed back while Vanilla Ice was still on the charts.

[FLAduranie]

Sorry to sound so dumb here guys, but I'm new here and have no clue what's going on.

Does this mean there will be NO Turtle toys in the stores now? Just the stuff that NECA is doing?

Also, the cartoon.....that's also done with?

IF all this is so......figures, as soon as I start collecting Turtles.....they die.:evil:

[sdp]

I kinda doubt Star Trek and Terminator were big influences. I mean how long can each line last? They're not only both based on movies but have Star Trek toy lines ever lasted for a long time? It has mostly an older fanbase. Also Terminator didn't have a T3 toyline did it? Terminator 2 had a toyline that lasted a bit but it wasn't a huge success either. Not to mention its Rated R. Sure collector toy companies these two toylines make them more money but thats a different market, I doubt playmates will get much out of either.


Playmates might indeed be responsible just not for those reasons. Remember figure sales were starting to slow down which is why we got Fast Forward a season earlier, FF toys didn't sell well either and only reason we got a different season than what was planned was because TMNT toys from the new movie were selling well. However its 2 years since that toyline came out and now they aren't selling as well and got dropped by walmart. BTTS took so long to be decided upon that playmates just doesn't seem to care
anymore at least to put out new toys. So if it is indeed Playmates fault It'd be more ont hat and not on Terminator/Star Trek.

who knows if the retro-line is successful there could still be a new season. (in b4 Vaughn quotes me saying there is no chance and he's done trying to convince us and we'll know when it happens he was right)

[Poweranimals]

They tried to, it even got pretty far into production. But that ship sailed back while Vanilla Ice was still on the charts.

I was not aware of that. Why was it axed?

[Hero]

I never knew that either. That would have been a real hoot and a half if it escaped development hell.

===HERO

[Drtooth]

I kinda doubt Star Trek and Terminator were big influences. I mean how long can each line last? They're not only both based on movies but have Star Trek toy lines ever lasted for a long time? It has mostly an older fanbase. Also Terminator didn't have a T3 toyline did it? Terminator 2 had a toyline that lasted a bit but it wasn't a huge success either. Not to mention its Rated R. Sure collector toy companies these two toylines make them more money but thats a different market, I doubt playmates will get much out of either.

Movie toys> TV show toys. There just aren't too many cartoon shows that get enough buzz to get toy lines any more... and look at the hell that Playmates got from the Eon Kid line (which was, for the first time not their fault... who knew that Kid's Wb was gonna kill itself, and take that show among others down with it?)... I've seen them basically go straight to TJ Maxx...

Plus, Star Trek and Terminator are pretty much retro/cultural icons, no ones gonna turn them down. Even if the Trek figures in question are total ass, the Trekkies will buy 5 of every figure....

That said, does anyone pay attention to NECA's other lines? It took a whole year for the NBX lines to get new waves, and I'm pretty sure I've seen others that took as long as well. So, one of 2 things could be happening...

1) they're holding the second wave hostage for the 25th anniversary.

2) They indeed cancelled them for some reason... dispite the fact they seem to have sold pretty well wen they first came out.

Unless I hear more, I'm guessing the first one.

[Ninjinister]

That said, does anyone pay attention to NECA's other lines? It took a whole year for the NBX lines to get new waves, and I'm pretty sure I've seen others that took as long as well.

Honestly, I don't follow any figures other than TMNT. I don't even know what NBX is. But anyway, did they issue a release date for this series long before releasing them like with TMNT wave 2? (I.E., wave 2 was supposed to be sometime this Autumn, but that season's nearly over and nobody's seen hide nor hair).

[CudleyCowlick]

I was not aware of that. Why was it axed?

All the info is up at Steve and Ryan's blog:

http://lavignebrownart.blogspot.com/2007/12/mutanimals-animated-series.html

And you can query "mutanimals" to see a ton of other posts related to it.

[Drtooth]

Honestly, I don't follow any figures other than TMNT. I don't even know what NBX is.


Shorthand... Nightmare Before X-mas (Christmas)... of course, it could be shorthanded as NBC, but then someone would think I meant the network, not the movie. Of course, they did release those on an anual basis due in part to the fact they fell somewhere into the Holiday collectible (both Christmas and Halloween) assortment.

[Ninjinister]

Shorthand... Nightmare Before X-mas (Christmas)... of course, it could be shorthanded as NBC, but then someone would think I meant the network, not the movie. Of course, they did release those on an anual basis due in part to the fact they fell somewhere into the Holiday collectible (both Christmas and Halloween) assortment.

Gotcha, ha ha. That's why I try not to use acronyms unless I'm certain everyone knows what I'm talking about.

[Machias Banshee]

Condescending crap...

Chill out, Andrew... It was a comment, don't bite my goddamn head off.

[Andrew NDB]

1) they're holding the second wave hostage for the 25th anniversary.

2) They indeed cancelled them for some reason... dispite the fact they seem to have sold pretty well wen they first came out.

Unless I hear more, I'm guessing the first one.

Or 3) They're a pretty reclusive company and have a lot of other stuff on their plate before they get around to the second TMNT wave.

I don't think NECA cares (or probably even realizes) about the 25th anniversary, especially since Mirage has no idea what's going on with NECA. It's meaningless, anyway... collectors and action figure collector afficionados will be just as apt to buy the same NECA TMNT Series 2 whether it comes out now or whether it comes out in May of 2009.

In fact, if we were to assume it was a timing thing (and it can't be), it would actually make more sense for them to throw it out there now to cash in on the Holiday Season than sit on them.

[Ninjinister]

In fact, if we were to assume it was a timing thing (and it can't be), it would actually make more sense for them to throw it out there now to cash in on the Holiday Season than sit on them.

That's what we're saying (at least I am). They were announced originally for the Autumn, which would headline it right in time for the holidays. Here it is the holiday season, and no word on them.

The possibilities on why they haven't been released are just theories. I don't believe in Occam's Razor, so I try to look at things from every angle possible.

[Drtooth]

I don't think NECA cares (or probably even realizes) about the 25th anniversary, especially since Mirage has no idea what's going on with NECA. It's meaningless, anyway... collectors and action figure collector afficionados will be just as apt to buy the same NECA TMNT Series 2 whether it comes out now or whether it comes out in May of 2009.


I still think they're holding them for... ugh... April, so they can make that damn same pun everyone else has been making for the past 5 years. But then again, you could very well be right about having the other stuff on their plate... though, to this day, I still see the TMNT figures almost flying off shelves (with the exceptions of the box sets) with no refreshers in site. Of course, the only retailers I've seen them in are local chains of comic and collectible shops....