Much Speculation, now... confirmation

[TristanHuwJones]

#8 will be reprinted in all it's Cerebus-y glory in this year's collected edition/omnibus/book thingy. So says Dan!

[Ninjinister]

You da man, Tristan! Thanks for giving us the confirmation!

[Kendamu]

Woohoo! That's kicks tons of ass! I wonder if #8 will go up on the website.

[VaughnMichael]

Glad they could work things out, if that's what happend.
Also glad you decided to come back Trist! ;)

[DrSpengler]

Sweet. Not that I don't already own the issue, but its nice to see Laird step down off his high horse even in the slightest.

Didn't they already have Lawson redraw the issue, though? Wasn't it printed in some Spanish collection a year or so ago?

I wonder if we'll ever see that version, if only out of morbid curiosity.

[TristanHuwJones]

I have a scanned copy of the Spanish version (the redraw) if someone can host it/translate it, I could supply it.

Thanks V, I'll be in from time to time. Moving around a lot these days with lots on my plate, but if things come up like this, you guys'll be the first to know.

[Spitfire]

I'm still deciding if I'm bothering to buy these re-issue trades since I have them in color and the original b/w trades.

[Cipher]

This was the right thing to do.

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm still deciding if I'm bothering to buy these re-issue trades since I have them in color and the original b/w trades.

Well, if the sales figures on this are good then the likelihood of City At War being collected is higher. I know it sounds like some sort of blackmail situation, but from what I've been hearing around the traps, this year really is a big push for the comics, and if things don't go well this year... well... there might not be a next. Right now everything is hinging on sales, especially with the cartoon wrapping up.

[Vegita-San]

In this case, a little advertising couldn't hurt...

I hardly ever saw Turtle Toy adds on TV outside of the Fox Box. One 25th anniversary add, for the comics, old show DVD's, new show DVD's and new movie shown on all the channels couldn't exactly hurt things.

How many folks even knew there was a Volume 4 outside of comic geeks, let alone the new TV series?

[Roseangelo]

Well, if the sales figures on this are good then the likelihood of City At War being collected is higher. I know it sounds like some sort of blackmail situation, but from what I've been hearing around the traps, this year really is a big push for the comics, and if things don't go well this year... well... there might not be a next. Right now everything is hinging on sales, especially with the cartoon wrapping up.

If they want to be serious about sales, they'll put the TPBs in bookstores. Period.

[Kendamu]

If they want to be serious about sales, they'll put the TPBs in bookstores. Period.
Agreed. I think sales would be so much higher if at least one TPB were released in stores.

[TristanHuwJones]

If they want to be serious about sales, they'll put the TPBs in bookstores. Period.

Everyone knows this, but the dealing's been done. I don't know when the contract expires or what the agreement Gary made entails, but I'd say there's slim chances of it appearing in bookstores unless something drastic happens between now and DCD's ordering period. Unfortunately the only thing I can suggest is people making sure they get orders in at the comic shops.

[turkishproverb]

#8 will be reprinted in all it's Cerebus-y glory in this year's collected edition/omnibus/book thingy. So says Dan!
YAY. Now to see if It'll also include Fugitiod 1. Just for the fun of it.

You know, I've always been mad fugitiod didn't get his own series..

Everyone knows this, but the dealing's been done. I don't know when the contract expires or what the agreement Gary made entails, but I'd say there's slim chances of it appearing in bookstores unless something drastic happens between now and DCD's ordering period. Unfortunately the only thing I can suggest is people making sure they get orders in at the comic shops.

"The Dealing" would've gotten Gary arrested if he'd done it at a publicly traded company, whether your talking about the Master Book License or his decision not to sell to bookstores directly.

I'll be supporting this, but the fact is that Gary needs to go.

[Cipher]

Well, if the sales figures on this are good then the likelihood of City At War being collected is higher.I plan on buying them if only for this fact. I also really, really want to see Volumes 2 and 4 be collected.

If they want to be serious about sales, they'll put the TPBs in bookstores. Period. Abso-freaking-lutely. Imagine a casual reader coming to see whats up with Batman, only to see "Hey, there's a TMNT comic book!" and be exposed to the Mirage universe. The TMNT need that.

[Roseangelo]

"The Dealing" would've gotten Gary arrested if he'd done it at a publicly traded company, whether your talking about the Master Book License or his decision not to sell to bookstores directly.

I'll be supporting this, but the fact is that Gary needs to go.

Word.

Gary isn't just a selfish low-life; he's an evil, evil man.

[turkishproverb]

At this point, given the day to day of mirage is Gary and most of the direction is Gary, I'm actually wondering if someone he's talked to is looking to "aquire" the turtles once mirage is in bad enough shape.

[TristanHuwJones]

I plan on buying them if only for this fact. I also really, really want to see Volumes 2 and 4 be collected.

Abso-freaking-lutely. Imagine a casual reader coming to see whats up with Batman, only to see "Hey, there's a TMNT comic book!" and be exposed to the Mirage universe. The TMNT need that.

If this and the Universe Guidebook (which I was told is clocking in at 184 pages!) went to bookstores then it'd be a major boost for the comics, but as I said, unless something happens quicksmart then it probably isn't going to happen :(

Volume 2 really does need to be collected, as do more stories from Vol.1.

If it were up to me, I'd be putting select issues of Tales together as well. For instance, all of Dan's Leatherhead stuff, all the City at War stuff, all the Pre-TMNT stuff, all the Vol. 2 stuff, etc.

It'd be cool to see the Vol 4 related Tales stories slotted in with Vol. 4 when/if it does get collected.

[AquaParade]

Word.

Gary isn't just a selfish low-life; he's an evil, evil man.

This really creates curiousity. So what exactly is Gary's role with the tmnt, and why so much hate?

[Roseangelo]

At this point, given the day to day of mirage is Gary and most of the direction is Gary, I'm actually wondering if someone he's talked to is looking to "aquire" the turtles once mirage is in bad enough shape.

Well, Gary definitely knows the company is starting to nose dive and is making selfish decisions that are not in the best interest of the company in order to secure is own personal financial cushion as much as possible. I don't know what Gary would gain from the company being sold, though; Peter owns it 100%. And Peter has to be the only person on the planet dense enough to think Gary's going a good job, so a new boss would surely fire Gary immediately. Although I'm sure he'd find a way to give himself a comfortable retirement if such a deal ever happened. Of course, no one else employed at Mirage would share in such benefit.

[gobo]

Gary Richardson = current CEO of Mirage.
Reason for hatred of him = something I've always wondered too.

[turkishproverb]

Well, Gary definitely knows the company is starting to nose dive and is making selfish decisions that are not in the best interest of the company in order to secure is own personal financial cushion as much as possible. I don't know what Gary would gain from the company being sold, though; Peter owns it 100%. And Peter has to be the only person on the planet dense enough to think Gary's going a good job, so a new boss would surely fire Gary immediately. Although I'm sure he'd find a way to give himself a comfortable retirement if such a deal ever happened. Of course, no one else employed at Mirage would share in such benefit.

If the company were sold he could have pre arranged with the people he put into position to buy it to gain a nice cushy position at their company, especially if he's been deliberatelly nosediving the company for them.

It's been done before in business. And it would fit Gary's actions pretty well.

Gary Richardson = current CEO of Mirage.
Reason for hatred of him = something I've always wondered too.

Because his buisiness decisions not only make no sense from a marketing/profit perspective, but because some of them would be effortlessly prosecutable were Mirage a publicly traded company.

[Roseangelo]

If the company were sold he could have pre arranged with the people he put into position to buy it to gain a nice cushy position at their company, especially if he's been deliberatelly nosediving the company for them.

It's been done before in business. And it would fit Gary's actions pretty well.

Ah, I gotcha. Yeah, I could easily see him doing that.

[CyberCubed]

I've been hearing around the traps, this year really is a big push for the comics, and if things don't go well this year... well... there might not be a next. Right now everything is hinging on sales, especially with the cartoon wrapping up.

Yeah, I hope Tales continues past 2009 but if it doesn't it had a pretty good run. Over 50 issues and most of them were enjoyable, so there were definitely good times while it lasted. As for the cartoon, Pete/Mirage said himself that its definitely wrapping up for good? Ah well.

Hopefully Pete gets out a few Vol. 4 issues or something this year.

[VaughnMichael]

especially with the cartoon wrapping up.
I'm glad someone confirmed it, there you have it folks.

[Roseangelo]

Hey look, more proof (http://boxburning.blogspot.com/2009/01/tmnt-groupshot.html) that Gary is evil. WTH is up with asking people to do something for free for no excusable reason?!

[Ninjinister]

Hey look, more proof (http://boxburning.blogspot.com/2009/01/tmnt-groupshot.html) that Gary is evil. WTH is up with asking people to do something for free for no excusable reason?!

It gets worse:

A million dollars to promote the anniversary... and last week we almost lost our life and disability insurance (thank goodness for technicalities) in order to save the company $9,500. per year.

[Kendamu]

With crap like that going on, I'm surprised people are still working there.

[Vegita-San]

Think my reply in Jims Blog was a bit over the top?

[TristanHuwJones]

It gets worse:

Holy ****! Where did that come from?

***Scratch that.. I just saw the whooole thing...

[Jester]

Think my reply in Jims Blog was a bit over the top? No, I agreed with every word.

[Dragon Turtle]

""Hey Jim. Q: You ask "Why are the Mirage artists treated so crappy?" A: Because Professor Cold Heart rules the land and the kingdom of Care-A-Lot hasn't been the same since. A million dollars to promote the anniversary... and last week we almost lost our life and disability insurance (thank goodness for technicalities) in order to save the company $9,500. per year. Makes no sense, not unless one is stone Cold Hearted. Don't get me started...""

That has to be first time I've seen someone at Mirage directly go after Gary Richardson, even if Murph did use a cartoon villain as a reference.

[Jester]

And a Care Bear reference no less. My Girl Friend would chuckle.

[Leonardo19]

WOW! I usually try and keep out of stuff like this and keep positive but Professor Cold Heart needs a reality check and what a perfect name for him. Anyway I don't want to set here and rant but crap like this really saddens me.

[Roseangelo]

And a Care Bear reference no less. My Girl Friend would chuckle.

The Care Bears stuff from Murph was just Epic Win. :lol:

[Vegita-San]

Agreed. When not one, but TWO Mirage employee's go after their boss, SOMETHING has to be up.


I have a feeling that 95% of the problems belong on Gary, and 5% on Peter for not taking more action to make things right. He apparently doesn't care that his employees are getting screwed over and his property is being dragged down the drain by bad business practices and bad partners.

[Roseangelo]

I have a feeling that 95% of the problems belong on Gary, and 5% on Peter for not taking more action to make things right. He apparently doesn't care that his employees are getting screwed over and his property is being dragged down the drain by bad business practices and bad partners.

Neil summed this up pretty perfectly.

The killer thing is that Peter is reading ALL of this, yet he still does nothing about Gary.

[trustno1]

but peter has said a coulpe of times that he relies on gary's business "skills". if he were to fire him then would that not put them in a awkward spot business wise? who would take over from gary? could murph?

[Roseangelo]

but peter has said a coulpe of times that he relies on gary's business "skills". if he were to fire him then would that not put them in a awkward spot business wise? who would take over from gary? could murph?

Peter's delusional to think Gary has business skills. He doesn't even have a background in business; his background is in accounting (how convenient, as he's also pretty much the only guy looking at Mirage's books and as such is basically writing his own paycheck).

I would certainly trust in Murph to do the job, though whether or not he would want to is another thing. But putting forth a headhunting search for a new CEO is hardly an impossible task.

[Vegita-San]

Peter's delusional to think Gary has business skills. He doesn't even have a background in business; his background is in accounting (how convenient, as he's also pretty much the only guy looking at Mirage's books and as such is basically writing his own paycheck).

I would certainly trust in Murph to do the job, though whether or not he would want to is another thing. But putting forth a headhunting search for a new CEO is hardly an impossible task.

And I hate beating a dead horse, but this is one thing that sums up Gary in a heart beat. Ever since Murph started his blog, the one thing that stuck with me is how Gary signed the book deal.

Almost as 'a favor' to someone who had no intention of doing anything with it. If that doesn't stink of corporate espionage, I don't know what does.
Like he's intentionally trying to cripple it from within...Although why, who knows?

[trustno1]

true but it could be that he is worried about what happens between getting rid of the current ceo and getting a new one (if murph did not want to step in). is there a secvond in command at mirage?

[Kendamu]

"Wanna make a boatload of cash by simply "okaying" a few TPBs onto Barnes & Noble's shelves? Come work for Mirage! Sure, there's that other licensing stuff, too, but we used to have our characters' faces on freakin' pot pies! It's not that hard. Apply today!" :P

[Roseangelo]

true but it could be that he is worried about what happens between getting rid of the current ceo and getting a new one (if murph did not want to step in). is there a secvond in command at mirage?

No, there is no second-in-command (or technically 3rd, since Gary would be #2). That's one of the HUGE problems with Mirage in general; there hasn't been new blood for 20 years. That's the worst way to give a company any shot at longevity.

Getting rid of something familiar (Gary) might be "scary" for Peter, but that's the lousiest excuse to let someone run your company into the ground. Problem is that Peter himself has become extremely disconnected from Mirage, as he has openly admitted to spending the majority of his time at home or on one of his many motorcycles. As I've said before, there'd be nothing wrong with that if the company was actually being run well, but it's not.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Cool news. I don't see why Peter Laird felt the need to make changes to his work, when so many people have already thought that it was great just the way it was.

I'm wondering why Mirage won't try to sell the books in more places. Is it a budget thing? If not, I'm sure there's enough curious and nostalgic people to possibly give the comic some more exposure if it were sold in bookstores.

[DrSpengler]

I'm wondering why Mirage won't try to sell the books in more places. Is it a budget thing? If not, I'm sure there's enough curious and nostalgic people to possibly give the comic some more exposure if it were sold in bookstores.

The official explanation is that, when bookstores like Borders or Barnes & Noble don't sell all of their order after a certain period of time, they return it the publisher for a certain percentage back.

Mirage, according to Laird, is not large or profitable enough to handle all the returns. Thus, Mirage graphic novels are sold only in comic shops where casual shoppers will never find them.

[Ninjinister]

The official explanation is that, when bookstores like Borders or Barnes & Noble don't sell all of their order after a certain period of time, they return it the publisher for a certain percentage back.

Mirage, according to Laird, is not large or profitable enough to handle all the returns. Thus, Mirage graphic novels are sold only in comic shops where casual shoppers will never find them.

That logic may be true, but it still sounds like he anticipates failure to me.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

The official explanation is that, when bookstores like Borders or Barnes & Noble don't sell all of their order after a certain period of time, they return it the publisher for a certain percentage back.

Mirage, according to Laird, is not large or profitable enough to handle all the returns. Thus, Mirage graphic novels are sold only in comic shops where casual shoppers will never find them.

Still, they don't seem to be available in too many comic shops. Even expanding the audience within comic shops would probably be a significant boost.

[turkishproverb]

The official explanation is that, when bookstores like Borders or Barnes & Noble don't sell all of their order after a certain period of time, they return it the publisher for a certain percentage back.

Mirage, according to Laird, is not large or profitable enough to handle all the returns. Thus, Mirage graphic novels are sold only in comic shops where casual shoppers will never find them.

Except a book can be made non returnable if sent to the stores by certain arrangements, and if that highly suspect contract had not been signed the Master license could have gone to someone who would have put the books into stores themselves.

[DK2]

Holy! I don't look here for a few days and all this evil talk on Gary R. CEO of Mirage comes within the thread of the good news that TMNT Vol. 1 #8 will be included (YES!) in the new collected book. Thanks Peter for engaging in this, thank you Dave Sim for letting this go through. Now can someone shed some light on what the problem was in the first place? I know the Dave Sim deal with Todd McFarlane was for Spawn #8 was that it'd never be reprinted. From my POV I don't understand Sim. Doesn't he want more exposure for his creation Cerebus from TMNT or Spawn? Yet TMNT #8 had been reprinted numerous times already in those early tpbs and color tpbs. So what happened since then I was stumped about. Wonder what the agreement was? Money? An ad in the TMNT book of his Cerebus collections? All or neither of these? Curious.
Now this talk about Gary R. I had no idea about. I did go through Jims blog the other day and read about the no payment anniversary art for his work. Realised he was very upset about that. Now the same thing from Murph? Mirage isn't a huge company its safe to say so I can understand how the retailer/book return polices playing a factor in why the old TMNT book trades can't be ever widely more available. But can't a deal come to Mirage from other comic publishers? DC or Marvel or Image or Dark Horse who frequently deal creator material into books and bookstores? Or is Mirage just scared to protect the TMNT from the other publishers taking their baby? I guess one needs the big picture to understand Mirages position. But if Gary R is this bad for them and Peter is blind to all this Mirage will never ever be big. But I think Mirage is just too small. I mean think about it. What is Mirage Studios? They're just the home of the TMNT comics, licensing arm of the TMNT, TV production arm of the TMNT cartoons. Mirage isn't really much else. So maybe all the things aren't Gary R's fault. Peter also never seems to want the TMNT to be out there or over exposed in this 2nd iteration of success (toys, toons, movie) compared to the TMNT's first explosion of success in the late '80's/early '90's. To this extent I think Peter is right too. George Lucas put his hand after the Star Wars Phantom Menace on the licensing arm that not every product that could be made into a Star Wars item needed to be made (look how much of PM's products were way reduced afterward). So there was less products of Episodes 2 & 3 merchadise. I think Mirage knows their small and don't want be in any financial trouble if anythings goes wrong fiscally. But for Gary to make deals that harm the well being of their artists and to make deals that get rid of the insurance or whatever that was about isn't good. Deals that Mirage spends millions and gets no great results. It really sounds bad over there. I'm surprised.

[VaughnMichael]

hmm and now I just noticed Peter took both Jim & Murphs blog links off his blog, very interesting indeed.

[CyberCubed]

Murphy didn't update his blog in months, so I can see why he removed that.

Was there really a link to Lawsons blog there? I never noticed.

[Roseangelo]

Murphy didn't update his blog in months, so I can see why he removed that.

Was there really a link to Lawsons blog there? I never noticed.

Yeah, there was.

I noticed the same thing last night. :|

[Jester]

Should we remove Murph's quote from here, since it was removed by Jim on his blog?

[Vegita-San]

Should we remove Murph's quote from here, since it was removed by Jim on his blog?

Which quote was that? And I can see him removing Steve's blog, since that hasn't been updated in months thanks to the stuff that went on there. But why remove Jims? Other than the fact that things might be worse than even we suspect?

[Jester]

Which quote was that? And I can see him removing Steve's blog, since that hasn't been updated in months thanks to the stuff that went on there. But why remove Jims? Other than the fact that things might be worse than even we suspect?
Murph's Cold Heart reference....it's still here.

[Vegita-San]

Murph's Cold Heart reference....it's still here.

Ahh, OK.

Actually, I'd leave it up. Maybe all Peter needs is a little bit of polite nudging to see that things are not all that well and good in the house that turtles built. The more he sees of it, the more he'll try and change things for the better...

Peter REALLY does not seem like a bad guy, just super shy and probably hates any form of confrontation. If that's the case, maybe that is why Gary is there :).

[DK2]

So is it safe to say the re-issued TMNT Vol. 1 tpb will be the original toned comics? No Peter Laird tampering? I'm assuming it is. 'Cause he'd still not be working on the retonings/dialogue to this day. We all would've been upset too. And how many of us are actually going to place the order on this even though most of us have it? Because in the end the final numbers are what matters to continue the line of trades. I'm still thinking about it.
Its a shame Mirage hasn't kept all their recent trades in print still. All the Tales Vol. 2 tpbs (what about book 6 onwards?), the Leonardo tpb (the other solo minis not to be collected?), the Movie collection tpb aren't at Mirages store anymore. But the Tales Vol.1 reissued tpb still is. Safe to say the TMNT Book 1 will be overprinted perhaps? I wonder what the price would be? The Tales Vol.1 book was $18 US/$20 CAN. I figure it might be twice this amount sicne it'd be twice the size of the Tales book.

[Andrew NDB]

So is it safe to say the re-issued TMNT Vol. 1 tpb will be the original toned comics? No Peter Laird tampering?

No. Not safe.

[Kendamu]

Jim's blog is still there. You just can't see it because it's so far down on a menu you can't scroll on. I had to open the frame in a seperate tab to see the link.

[VaughnMichael]

Jim's blog is still there. You just can't see it because it's so far down on a menu you can't scroll on. I had to open the frame in a seperate tab to see the link.
On the day that I posted that Peter took both Jim and Murph's blogs off his list, but he has since placed Jim's back up.
I was worried for a bit, I hope Jim didn't get yelled at or anything.

[Roseangelo]

Found this (http://albert.nickerson.tripod.com/creatorsbillofrightssim21.html) today. Thought it might be an interesting read for people.

[Cipher]

Found this (http://albert.nickerson.tripod.com/creatorsbillofrightssim21.html) today. Thought it might be an interesting read for people."I hope life post-Kevin is treating you well. Speaking of whom, if you are willing to go for the "voluntary compensation" I'd like a percentage (determined by you) of what you intend to pay me to go to Kevin instead."
- Dave Sim

That is very interesting. Can't help but feel that Dave is being a little bit smarmy with that one, though.

[Roseangelo]

Can't help but feel that Dave is being a little bit smarmy with that one, though.

I thought the same. :lol:

[TristanHuwJones]

Just a quick TMNT question before I go -- did Peter ever manage to get in touch with Dave Sim about the reprint of #8 in the collected book for this year?


Yup - it will be in the collected book. Ships in July (along with the TMNT Adv. trade). Mirage Universe is now scheduled for August.


Dated January 15th. Email from Dan.