NYCC Mirage Panel Discussion (and a correction)

[Roseangelo]

No, I wasn't at the panel (stuck on the wrong coast), but I'll leave to those who were to discuss tonight's panel.

However, I have been informed of a erroneous statement that was made during the panel, which I've been asked to correct and clarify.

The panel moderator, Jake Black, got "The Forever War" and "City at War" mixed up; there is NOT a City at War TPB in the works.

Now then... discuss!

I'm hoping Neil came through with video...

[junkboy]

This is indeed a fatal mistake to make. Lots of ppl even owning the original issues of CoW are still ready to kill for a Cow TPB. Sigh, the end results would be big... very big , if this was not corrected :)
I hope they make a CoW TPB after Forever War and Original 11 issues + 4 micro shots TPB. ( if they sell good ) tho i am following Raph's thinking here and not being too optimistic.

Hoping to hear some good Mirage NYCC stuff under this thread.

[Cipher]

I'd rather see trades of City at War, Volume Two, and Volume Four than "The Forever War."

Bite me.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd rather see trades of City at War, Volume Two, and Volume Four than "The Forever War."

Oh, just buy yourselves extra copies of the issues, rip out the staples, and bind the pages into spirals -- VOILA! You have your TPBs.

I'm much more into Mirage than the Archie TMNT but it doesn't take much soul-searching to find I'm way more excited about seeing "The Forever War" than TPBs of the old stuff... that are probably just going to rip out the duo-toning I loved and do dodgy, revisionist things with dialogue here and there anyway. And Volume 2 in Black and White would be an odd thing.

[CyberCubed]

Trades are nice, but all it really is, is just a way to get you to re-buy the same comics you already have.

Sure, its good for new readers who never had those comics, but for the rest of us, its almost like throwing away money. You get a nice new cover and a 1-page editorial, but you're pretty much shelling out the money for something you already have.

That being said it is easier to take out one big book then 5-6 separate issues out of your comic stack or whatever.

[Jester]

I'd buy the trades...because I only have like 3 Mirage books. TMNT comics are hard to come by here, aside from online.

[darthsmozers]

Can someone post a synopsis of the panel? :)

[Jester]

Vegita's posted the first 20 minutes in another thread:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=26357

[Roseangelo]

I'd rather see trades of City at War, Volume Two, and Volume Four than "The Forever War."

New content (especially content that has potential to kick serious ass) is better than old content any day. But that's not excuse to make good old content available again. Point being: it shouldn't be an either/or scenario; it should be an everything scenario.

[shuriken]

I'd buy the trades...because I only have like 3 Mirage books. TMNT comics are hard to come by here, aside from online.

You and I are on the same boat on this one Jester. Although i don't have any of the Archie things to judge which I'd preffer.

[Cipher]

New content (especially content that has potential to kick serious ass) is better than old content any day. But that's not excuse to make good old content available again. Point being: it shouldn't be an either/or scenario; it should be an everything scenario.Agreed. I may have spoken hastily. It's just that the error prompted me to directly compare my interest in both, and I'm still really anxious to get new Mirage trades out with previously uncollected material before all the single issues have faded into obscurity.

[Ninjinister]

Vegita's posted the first 20 minutes in another thread:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=26357

That's not what he asked....

[Jester]

I know, but I figured he could watch it first hand as opposed to reading the clift notes.

[Ninjinister]

What if he's like me and doesn't have 20+ minutes (the plus is for buffering time) to watch the footage?

[Archon_Turtle]

What if he's like me and doesn't have 20+ minutes (the plus is for buffering time) to watch the footage?

Stop pretending you have things to do :-P

[Ninjinister]

Stop pretending you have things to do :-P

Man, f*** you and your monkey! :lol: I totally have things to do!

[Jester]

Like...
























Come on man, we're waiting.

[junkboy]

I have nearly changed all my buying list to trades and HCs. But since i mostly buy non Big 2 stuff and some underground companies, still i buy issues ( or both issues and trades of the things i am huge fan of - like Mirage stuff and Usagi Yojimbo ).
Those are all 25th anniversary things. Have a meaning ( at least for me )
I , too feel the same way that buying something you own in issue form, once again in trade form is not a logical thing but i guess TMNT is different for me.
I own every issue and plan to buy all trades for the sake of 25th anniversary. I guess i am still unable to see comics as something you just read. Ppl are getting ready to go into a damn digital age ( which i will not be a part of in most ways) but i still see a comic book as something you collect as if an action figure or such.

[turkishproverb]

Like...
























Come on man, we're waiting.

I think he told you...

Man, f*** you and your monkey! :lol::o

[CyberCubed]

In the Panel that Vegita-San taped, Jim Lawson pretty much said he has no idea what's going on with the future of the comics past 2009.

I thought it was hilarious when someone asked them about the Image comics, and they all kind of sat there shaking their heads. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

I thought it was hilarious when someone asked them about the Image comics, and they all kind of sat there shaking their heads. :lol:

Oh, because the comics since then have been worlds better?

That's really prickish, if true.

[Roseangelo]

Oh, because the comics since then have been worlds better?

That's really prickish, if true.

Yeah, Dooney commented about how he thought the Image series maimed each the Turtles for the purpose of story-telling. It was the one response I had to give a bit of a discontented sigh to, because, of course, Vol. 4 can't really be described as anything better than that.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, Dooney commented about how he thought the Image series maimed each the Turtles for the purpose of story-telling.

Does Dooney realize that Peter Laird personally approved every one of those, gave suggestions, and even offered up Splinter's death?

[Roseangelo]

Does Dooney realize that Peter Laird personally approved every one of those, gave suggestions, and even offered up Splinter's death?

Probably not. It didn't seem like any of the guys had actually read much, if any, of Volume 3.

[Jester]

They're the Mirage guys, they seemed to know little else. No offense to them, they're great, but when it comes to Image and the OT, they weren't the people to talk to. And I agree, where does Shredder-Raph and Cyborg Don become "mutilation for story purposes" but Gamera-Raph and Micro Don not?

[Roseangelo]

They're the Mirage guys, they seemed to know little else. No offense to them, they're great, but when it comes to Image and the OT, they weren't the people to talk to. And I agree, where does Shredder-Raph and Cyborg Don become "mutilation for story purposes" but Gamera-Raph and Micro Don not?

I don't think anyone at Mirage qualifies as a "person to talk to" in regards to the OT. That would be why pretty much all of the "retro" stuff misses the mark.

[Jester]

Even them:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/DrEviland2.jpg
:P

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, it was noticeable everytime someone asked them questions about the old cartoon, Image series, or even the new toon, the Mirage guys couldn't give answers to any of the questions. Someone asked them about the "Red Sky seasons" and they had no clue what the fans were talking about. Questions like those shouldn't have been asked to comic guys.

Its fairly obvious they don't watch much of either of the cartoons, or read the Image series.

I wish the audience realized to keep the questions solely about the Mirage comics, because they aren't involved in anything else and likely don't bother watching the cartoons.

[junkboy]

Bugger, i had hoped being able to hear something hopeful about Mirage's future form the guys. Or maybe something solid... Sad but true style.

[Roseangelo]

Even them:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/DrEviland2.jpg
:P

ESPECIALLY them.

I wish the audience realized to keep the questions solely about the Mirage comics, because they aren't involved in anything else and likely don't bother watching the cartoons.

I don't think the general public is ever going to comprehend the different levels at which the TMNT exist. It's just always going to be, "Something, something, original cartoon!" and, "Oh, there's a comic?"

[junkboy]

"Something, something, original cartoon!" and, "Oh, there's a comic?"

I do know that my feelings are not logical and a bit childish but there are times that i really want to bash heads as old pal Casey. It is so ironic that something's being uber popular in one medium (whether among kids or not) is shadowing and concealing its true great origin. ( at least as we think about the general big percentage... we are just a minority )
Tho, i believe this has ben discussed a lot. So no need to go on.

[Andrew NDB]

It is so ironic that something's being uber popular in one medium (whether among kids or not) is shadowing and concealing its true great origin.

It's rather frustrating. It's even more frustrating to see history repeating itself over and over again. Is it not insanity to try the same thing over and over again (pander to the toddlers and toys as opposed to the more mature Mirage source material, then wonder why they outgrow them every few years, rinse and repeat for another generation), and expect different results?

[Jester]

That's just it. Mirage could market a TMNT to adults. The "toddlers" who were into the original series in the day are now those very adults. I'd love to see an adult take on the characters. They could even still make toys, DC Direct and Marvel Select figures aren't made for kids, those are "toys" meant for adults.

Maybe the best thing for the Turtles is another short hiatus, as much as it pains me to admit it, and especially in this anniversary year.

[junkboy]

It's rather frustrating. It's even more frustrating to see history repeating itself over and over again. Is it not insanity to try the same thing over and over again (pander to the toddlers and toys as opposed to the more mature Mirage source material, then wonder why they outgrow them every few years, rinse and repeat for another generation), and expect different results?

For someone looking at the subject not as Mirage or Turtle stuff, but the event of something's popularity hiding its real value, it is a bit ironic. But for as Mirage fans, you are completely right. Even it is worse than frustrating. Here in my town just by the help of NECA's first line and Tristan and Paul's great work , i have spread the real Mirage to lots of ppl that used to say "How i got addicted to pizza cause of TMNT.. bla bla"
Current economy and Diamond may be causing difficulties. Or the current sales might be satisfying for the Mirage crew ( ofc they are not ). But i am saying this last sentence just for myself... just my personal thoughts : I would feel really insulted if a creation of mine was seen as kid stuff.
TMNT has always been kid friendly, nothing "too" wrong with that. ( i guess there is some wrong, but no need to mention about this right here )
But this extra feature of being kid friendly must not damage the main thing.

[junkboy]

That's just it. Mirage could market a TMNT to adults. The "toddlers" who were into the original series in the day are now those very adults. I'd love to see an adult take on the characters. They could even still make toys, DC Direct and Marvel Select figures aren't made for kids, those are "toys" meant for adults.


Or convince Mcfarlane. He has made enough Non-Spawn material. Enough dragons and Zodiac beasts... I would die/kill/amputate/*** for seeing some bad ass TMNT figure line from Mcfarlane. By bad-ass i am maybe meaning extremely violent...

[Jester]

Nah, NECA's doing a fine job. McFarlane figures are glorified statues.

[junkboy]

Nah, NECA's doing a fine job. McFarlane figures are glorified statues.


NECA line is ofc best. No way i can disagree. But Mcfarlane toys can convince some ppl that real TMNT is not kid stuff. Also everyone can have his/her own thoughts about the quality of Mcfarlane's figures but i guess it is pretty obvious that Mcfarlane is more popular (i am a huge Mcfarlane fan but did not give that example cause that i loved the company, but cause of its adulty features and popularity). In NECA we trust ofc as the original comic fans.

[Roseangelo]

Mirage isn't in the comic business or the cartoon business. They're in the licensing business, and the licensing business is primarily a kiddie business. So long as that's all Mirage cares about, that's how it's going to be.

[Andrew NDB]

But NECA seems to not be self-sufficient... a year after showing their prototype Series 2 TMNT figures at the last San D Con, their last hope at getting it made is to pack their briefcases and hope some investors in some country in Europe might give them some dough to make the figures happen.

I don't care who makes the figures, I just would like to see Mirage figures of the same detail and articulation as the NECA ones. Anyone that honestly thought Playmates was going to compete with them in this regard just isn't of sound mind -- Playmates makes figures for little kids; companies like NECA and McFarlane Toys are in the adult/collector's market.

[junkboy]

Also there is another fact that Mcfarlane is not even doing the figures of the characters showing face in other comics of the company that his own comic is being published. Walking Dead, Savage Dragon ( other than the Image tenth anniversary figure )... even Elephantmen and Proof figures. Those are all instant buys imo. This is something i frequently talk with my comic/figure collector buddies.
Mcfarlane buyers see the thing as an adult hobby of "collecting", not buying toys. This can increase TMNT's respect (the respect we all really like to see)

[Andrew NDB]

It's not confined to McFarlane and NECA, either. DC Direct figures are -- generally -- fantastically detailed and pretty much exclusively for collectors. You won't/can't find these in toy stores.

Back on point, it's just disheartening. You would think, at the end of the day and after all this time, the TPTB would want what they're putting out there to the masses to be a little bit more endearing; of more substance than the toddler-pandering tripe it was never meant to be in the beginning. I feel like Captain Obvious in pointing it out, but that Mirage's and the TMNT's overall fate is hanging in jeopary, to be decided by whether or not there is a deal for toddler toys on shelves... something's wrong here, folks.

F*** Playmates. F*** them, with emphasis. That's been a Deal with the Devil that's gone on too long. Let's think outside of the box already, people.

[Roseangelo]

It's not confined to McFarlane and NECA, either. DC Direct figures are -- generally -- fantastically detailed and pretty much exclusively for collectors. You won't/can't find these in toy stores.

Back on point, it's just disheartening. You would think, at the end of the day and after all this time, the TPTB would want what they're putting out there to the masses to be a little bit more endearing; of more substance than the toddler-pandering tripe it was never meant to be in the beginning. I feel like Captain Obvious in pointing it out, but that Mirage's and the TMNT's overall fate is hanging in jeopary, to be decided by whether or not there is a deal for toddler toys on shelves... something's wrong here, folks.

F*** Playmates. F*** them, with emphasis. That's been a Deal with the Devil that's gone on too long. Let's think outside of the box already, people.

I can't disagree. I feel the same way and I get flamed for pointing out the obvious. This is the fate of the TMNT for as long as Gary Richardson and Peter Laird are the so-called Powers That Be.

[junkboy]

I guess they are thinking that going on with a company that is releasing a Raph toy with a safari outfit, or a Leo figure wearing a plumber costume is the way to attract ppl. I really agree with you over that Andrew. There is a huge amount of ppl really loving Playmates TMNT stuff, i am not one of them, but i respect them... But.... ...

But as i said i truly agree with your last comment on your post... Well said.

[Andrew NDB]

That there is and has been Playmates toys is fine... but this should be the icing on the cake, not the lifeblood of the whole f***ing franchise. This is insanity.

[darthsmozers]

That's not what he asked....

Its cool. and I will try to check out the video, definitely. In the meantime, though, can anyone tell me if the Forever War was mentioned at all, and in what context? That's all I want to know about. Thanks :D

[Jester]

Not that I can remember....sadly.

[malpractice]

I went to the panel on Saturday, and i have to say it was kind of depressing. A majority of the audience seemed to not know anything about the turtles comics (even though it was advertised as a panel being about the Turtles comic artists), and continued to ask questions about the old toon repeatedly even after politely being asked not to considering most of the panel never even saw it to begin with. And if it wasn't about the cartoon, it was about action figures or something.

There was a few cool moments here and there, and it was great hearing stories about the early days. I especially liked all the talk about how much everyone loved the first movie, and the story of all the mirage guys going to the set on the day they filmed the first Casey/Raphael scene and being blown away by how close it was to the comic. I did manage to get Tristan and Paul a mention during the panel too. Overall though, for what i was hoping it to be, it was pretty dissapointing.

Props to Jake Black though for filling in as moderator at the last minute, he managed to pull everything together pretty well.

[Vegita-San]

Mirage isn't in the comic business or the cartoon business. They're in the licensing business, and the licensing business is primarily a kiddie business. So long as that's all Mirage cares about, that's how it's going to be.


The Entire feeling of the Mirage Panel was kind of....Blah. Like they didn't really care to be there either. Mike Dooney and Steve Lavigne are the only ones who tried to keep it lively. But it just goes to show you the state of how things are. I don't think Eric smiled once the entire weekend.

I really do Like Peter, but the guy needs to feel motivated to do stuff...and from what I'm observing, he doesn't care for the business end, only the creative end. And we all know how Gary likes to screw up the business end by putting as little thought to it as possible. That's how we get companies like Playmates putting out crap figures like Comic Shredder.

Someone should at least put side by side photographs of NECA and Playmates comic figures and start something. Media Blitz, pettition, anything to try and convince Mirage to get these things going.

And I never thought I'd say this, but I think that right now, MATTEL is the one to have the turtles license. I love what they are doing with MOTUC and they actually listen to both fans and collectors. They want the Thundercats license, and I wonder what it would take to give them the Turtle one


I think that if the franchise goes dead again....it needs to be rebooted. Ground up.

Can Gary, put Peter in an Advisory role, and get someone who knows the franchise from top to bottom to not only reboot the comics, but the animated series as well so it all sort of meshes together. I'd love to see something where the best of each universe is joined together to form one co-herent one, so it doesn't have to go away for the next 40 years.

[Dragon Turtle]

And I never thought I'd say this, but I think that right now, MATTEL is the one to have the turtles license. I love what they are doing with MOTUC and they actually listen to both fans and collectors. They want the Thundercats license, and I wonder what it would take to give them the Turtle one


Really? From what I remember about how Mattel handled the New He-man line,(as far as distribution is concerned) fans hated them. I'd rather see Hasbro take the toy license, I might actually buy Transformer/TMNT toys.


Can Gary, put Peter in an Advisory role, and get someone who knows the franchise from top to bottom to not only reboot the comics, but the animated series as well so it all sort of meshes together. I'd love to see something where the best of each universe is joined together to form one co-herent one, so it doesn't have to go away for the next 40 years.

Can Gary do it and would he do it? No and no.

[Vegita-San]

That was meant to be can as in - get rid of can or canned.....

Yeah, fans DID hate Mattel for Smash Blade He-Man and Disco funk skeletor. But they seemed to have learned from their mistakes, and apparently playing by their own rules now that they have their own distribution website. So far so good.... and it would also mean Four Horsemen sculpted Turtle toys :).

[turkishproverb]

Actually, can/fire gary above all else. he's trouble.

[VaughnMichael]

it's funny you guys say that, he asked me at the con at the playmates booth if I was the guy who trashed talked him online.
First of all I found that to be very unprofessional, secondly I told him I'm not as I really haven't even said that much about him besides he should be getting the trades into book stores.
Everyone knows Playmates is my number 1 target:P

[Roseangelo]

it's funny you guys say that, he asked me at the con at the playmates booth if I was the guy who trashed talked him online.
First of all I found that to be very unprofessional, secondly I told him I'm not as I really haven't even said that much about him besides he should be getting the trades into book stores.
Everyone knows Playmates is my number 1 target:P

Wait, Gary said that to you? LOL. :lol:

[VaughnMichael]

Wait, Gary said that to you? LOL. :lol:
mmmhmm and I said you may wanna speak to Rose about that, no lie hahah

[Roseangelo]

mmmhmm and I said you may wanna speak to Rose about that, no lie hahah

:rolling:

For the record: I don't trash talk Gary; I simply do my best to reveal him as the greedy slime of a "business man" he is.

[VaughnMichael]

:rolling:

For the record: I don't trash talk Gary; I simply do my best to reveal him as the greedy slime of a "business man" he is.
lol, well that's how he's looking at it. His son sure was nice though.

[Roseangelo]

lol, well that's how he's looking at it. His son sure was nice though.

Oh come on, Gary. I ain't once make a "you're so fat" or a "your momma" joke. Now THAT'D be trash talking. 8)

[turkishproverb]

it's funny you guys say that, he asked me at the con at the playmates booth if I was the guy who trashed talked him online.
First of all I found that to be very unprofessional, secondly I told him I'm not as I really haven't even said that much about him besides he should be getting the trades into book stores.
Everyone knows Playmates is my number 1 target:P

That was probably me. And he deserves it. THe man's action are questionable at best, and corporate sabotage at worst.

Pity his kid has such a slimeball buisinessman as a parent, but maybe he's closer to decent at home.

[Archon_Turtle]

lol, well that's how he's looking at it. His son sure was nice though.

Yeah, Luke is a really really good kid. :-)

[turkishproverb]

You know, Luke's being the TMNT brand manager for Playmates, as good a guy as you guys say he is, is kind've only anohter level of suspicious when it comes to his father. The guy is basically using mirage to do "favors" for people, and as such they're guaranteed the contracts no matter what **** they produce. He needs to be fired now.

[Archon_Turtle]

You know, Luke's being the TMNT brand manager for Playmates, as good a guy as you guys say he is, is kind've only anohter level of suspicious when it comes to his father. The guy is basically using mirage to do "favors" for people, and as such they're guaranteed the contracts no matter what **** they produce. He needs to be fired now.

*sigh* :-(

[Vegita-San]

Wait a minute, what did I miss? The guy on the show floor I might have talked to was son of Gary?

Wow, didn't know that..
Gotta go back and re-read a few pages...

[Vegita-San]

lol, well that's how he's looking at it. His son sure was nice though.

If the son was the same guy I'm thinking of, he really DID seem like a nice guy. I asked him about the LionsGate releases, and where they took the turtles to do the photo ops.

Also of note, no one in NY paid any attention to the costumed turtles walking around the city :).

[CyberCubed]

I kind of don't get it, the Mirage Panel really didn't tell us anything new, nor give us any info on any upcoming projects.

Vol. 4 is still in limbo until Pete decides to bother with it, Tales is continuing through 2009, we're getting the Don Tales micro-series, the Archie TPB, another re-print of Issue 1, The Forever War is eventually coming...and did I miss anything?

[Cipher]

I kind of don't get it, the Mirage Panel really didn't tell us anything new, nor give us any info on any upcoming projects.

Vol. 4 is still in limbo until Pete decides to bother with it, Tales is continuing through 2009, we're getting the Don Tales micro-series, the Archie TPB, another re-print of Issue 1, The Forever War is eventually coming...and did I miss anything?Mirage trades are apparently on their way as well, at least the first eleven issues to start with.

It's not exactly a dirth of news. The only thing I'm still anxious to hear about is Volume 4. I really hope it gets finished.