Just Watched the OT Pilot...

[Monte Williams]

I hadn't seen the five-episode pilot that started off the Old Toon since... hell, probably the late '80s.

Recently, I found a VHS copy at a second-hand store, still shrink-wrapped, for $2. Figured I'd get it to watch with my five-year-old daughter; she liked the first flick and the CGI flick.

I ended up falling asleep during the fourth episode, not because of its quality but simply because it's been a long week. I'll watch the rest soon, 'cause no doubt she'll watch the video religiously for a week or two before moving on to something new...

Ultimately, like any other 1980s children's cartoon, the show boasts animation that's uneven, at best, and generally speaking, the series does not hold up the way one might hope; nor does G.I. Joe or Transformers, of course.

That said, it is very, very clear why the show caught on the way it did. Indeed, I could summarize its revelatory appeal with one sentence:

It was the first animated action series to treat itself and the conventions of the genre with such cheerful irreverence.

I recalled that the series would often break the fourth wall, but I didn't realize that that tendency started so soon ("You wouldn't last five minutes in a ninja pizzeria... I love saying lines like that.")

The writing isn't notably clever by today's standards, but much of what has come since was likely inspired by Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and its comical approach; I particularly liked that Raphael's most intimidating threat when interrogating Baxter Stockman was that he might have to get "sarcastic" with him.

Much of the humor is stilted and contrived, and the entire story has something of a meandering, make-it-up-as-you-go awkwardness. Nonetheless, I enjoyed watching it again, and while I wouldn't likely give it a second glance if it debuted today rather than when I was in fifth grade, I'm also not embarrassed that I used to watch it, as I am when I look back at Thundercats.

What do you think of the old-toon pilot when you watch it today, and to what extent is your opinion objective, rather than clouded by nostalgia?

Cheers,

Monte

[Cipher]

Probably the most enjoyable piece of TMNT animation ever made.

And the animation, while inconsistant, is frequently amazing in those first five episodes. Compare it to the clunkiness of other '80s cartoons like G.I. Joe, Transformers, and Thundercats.

[CyberCubed]

TMNT came out at the right time. If the show started decades later it wouldn't have been as successful.

[GK Punk]

Probably the most enjoyable piece of TMNT animation ever made.

And the animation, while inconsistant, is frequently amazing in those first five episodes. Compare it to the clunkiness of other '80s cartoons like G.I. Joe, Transformers, and Thundercats.

Wasn't it done by the same people that did Transformers and GI Joe?

[Anarchistguy]

Wasn't it done by the same people that did Transformers and GI Joe?

Yup. They probably just had a bigger budget.

[gobo]

Best story arc in the whole series...

[ToTheNines]

Yup. They probably just had a bigger budget.

Are you sure? I know TMNT is Murakami Wolf Swenson, and I'm pretty sure those two were Sunbow.

[Anarchistguy]

Well Pilots of a series usually have bigger budgets than the rest of the show. It's especially obvious, when it comes to the 1987 animated version of TMNT. The drawings were pretty detailed (especially Krang in the 2nd episode), The animation was a hell of a lot better too. Some parts actually looked anime-ish.

[GK Punk]

Are you sure? I know TMNT is Murakami Wolf Swenson, and I'm pretty sure those two were Sunbow.

We're just speaking of animation studio, not production studio.

[Cipher]

Wasn't it done by the same people that did Transformers and GI Joe?I believe the first season of TMNT was done by Toei, wasn't it? I'm not sure about the Transformers and G.I. Joe. I know alot of Japanese studios worked on Transformers, so Toei's fairly likely.

Either way, due to budgets or what have you, the animation in the first season of TMNT blows other shows out of the water.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The first three seasons are the best

[odupianist]

Best story arc in the whole series...

Best overall episodes of the series I think. Animation, dialogue, story arc, etc.

[ToTheNines]

We're just speaking of animation studio, not production studio.

Gotcha, you're definitely correct there.

[Jester]

Monte, are you talking about the VHS re-release of the first 5 episodes? The one released the same time as the Season 1 DVD? Or are we talking about the edited down "movie" version of the pilot?

[Monte Williams]

Monte, are you talking about the VHS re-release of the first 5 episodes? The one released the same time as the Season 1 DVD? Or are we talking about the edited down "movie" version of the pilot?

Frankly, I'm not sure; the opening theme plays once, then only each episode title interrupts the story, and the closing credits run at the end. It didn't seem to be edited, but I'd hardly be the one to catch the editing, having not seen it in so long.

[GK Punk]

I believe the first season of TMNT was done by Toei, wasn't it? I'm not sure about the Transformers and G.I. Joe. I know alot of Japanese studios worked on Transformers, so Toei's fairly likely.

Either way, due to budgets or what have you, the animation in the first season of TMNT blows other shows out of the water.

Yeah, that's probably what the difference was; the budget. I remember hearing somewhere that Toei did TF and GI Joe as well, so I was pretty sure it was the same animation studio, a few others in the thread seem to believe so too so I'm glad to know I'm not just going insane.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

TMNT came out at the right time. If the show started decades later it wouldn't have been as successful.

Well there was a second series close to two decades later, and it wasn't nearly as successful, but still did pretty well.

Just about every TV show is a product of its time, anyway. The TMNT from the present wouldn't be the same as the TMNT from the 80's. I kind of wish something like the TMNT 80's series would come out again, though. Something that's a nice throwback to 50's science fiction that doesn't take itself too seriously.

[Monte Williams]

I got to finish it, and indeed I've caught bits of the damned thing several times now, 'cause my girl is OBSESSED! :)

The street fight between the Turtles and Bebop n' Rocksteady was hilarious. Rocksteady screams something along the lines of "Taste blazing death!" to which Raphael responds, "The boy loves his work."

Good times.

[Cowabunga Kiefer]

You gotta love the classic line from Shredder," Tonight, I dine on Turtle Soup!" They showed that episode at the Belcourt theater in Nashville for a special screening of the original movie. That and the arcade game in the lobby to a bunch of fans back in the day! Yes indeed, good times!

[Anarchistguy]

I got to finish it, and indeed I've caught bits of the damned thing several times now, 'cause my girl is OBSESSED! :)

The street fight between the Turtles and Bebop n' Rocksteady was hilarious. Rocksteady screams something along the lines of "Taste blazing death!" to which Raphael responds, "The boy loves his work."

Good times.

Speaking of Bebop and Rocksteady, did you notice that:

a) They sounded gruffer
b) They were WAAAYYY more agressive
c) They actually put up a fight
and last but not least
d) They weren't nearly as dumb as in later seasons.

And I must note that I miss that helmet Rocksteady wore in those episodes. Made him look VERY badass.

[CyberCubed]

I kind of wish something like the TMNT 80's series would come out again, though. Something that's a nice throwback to 50's science fiction that doesn't take itself too seriously.

I completely agree. What made the show so fun is the bizarre wacky sci-fi plots. Its like every episode took some idea from some old science fiction movie and the writers just ran with it.

The other great thing is the show made fun of itself! The writers knew the plots were crazy and a lot of the villains were nonsensical (especially all those one-shot mad scientists, Seasons 4-6 are filled with them), and they had characters break the forth wall all the time.

I also think the show benefited from some great chemistry between characters. The 4 Turtles, the Channel 6 news crew, and Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady were all 3 groups that had really, really fun interactions, and even better when they all interacted with each other.

Sometimes its best for a show to just be light-hearted and fun to watch, I can just watch the 80's TMNT over and over again and just sit down and relax. I also like how the show has a rather loose continuity that runs throughout the whole thing, each episode is episodic mostly, but there is some continuity through the series and I like how the Turtles have their 10 season battle against Shredder, even though Shredder/Krang were only in 3 eps in the last season.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I completely agree. What made the show so fun is the bizarre wacky sci-fi plots. Its like every episode took some idea from some old science fiction movie and the writers just ran with it.

The other great thing is the show made fun of itself! The writers knew the plots were crazy and a lot of the villains were nonsensical (especially all those one-shot mad scientists, Seasons 4-6 are filled with them), and they had characters break the forth wall all the time.

I also think the show benefited from some great chemistry between characters. The 4 Turtles, the Channel 6 news crew, and Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady were all 3 groups that had really, really fun interactions, and even better when they all interacted with each other.

Sometimes its best for a show to just be light-hearted and fun to watch, I can just watch the 80's TMNT over and over again and just sit down and relax. I also like how the show has a rather loose continuity that runs throughout the whole thing, each episode is episodic mostly, but there is some continuity through the series and I like how the Turtles have their 10 season battle against Shredder, even though Shredder/Krang were only in 3 eps in the last season.

I also liked how it was based on science fiction from the 1950's and 1960's. I don't know if science fiction took itself serious back then.

[Jester]

Frankly, I'm not sure; the opening theme plays once, then only each episode title interrupts the story, and the closing credits run at the end. It didn't seem to be edited, but I'd hardly be the one to catch the editing, having not seen it in so long.
Did the box look like this:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/519WNCWM3NL_SS500_.jpg

[Spike Spiegel]

Probably the most enjoyable piece of TMNT animation ever made.



Those first five or so eps are what comes to my mind when I think of the series in general...it's just as important to me as a fan as the original movie or Volume 1 of the comics.

[Jester]

Am I alone in not being overly impressed with the animation of the 2nd-5th episodes? The first episode is great, mistakes aside...:P but the subsequent episodes slide IMO. In fact, I like the more consistent animation style of the later seasons. The Turtles look great, Shredder looks great, Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady look great, Splinter...well, he always looked great.

[Monte Williams]

Jester, that is indeed the cover art. I like that comic book panel from your signature, incidentally; what's the story behind it?

[Monte Williams]

Am I alone in not being overly impressed with the animation of the 2nd-5th episodes?

Most definitely not; for the time, it was good (if studios had had the budgets and desire to produce entire series as well-animated as their opening credits, we wouldn't be as embarrassed to revisit our childhood cartoons), but the entire story boasts very uneven animation.

He-Man was a very stark and redundant show, animation-wise, but perhaps because of its humble ambitions, it managed to be consistent in a way that no other show of its time was; solid lines, nice color palette.

The Turtles, by contrast, like the Gen 1 Transformers, are very soft and squishy and misshapen for the most part.

[Jester]

Jester, that is indeed the cover art. I like that comic book panel from your signature, incidentally; what's the story behind it?
Well....it's actually edited.
The original line is "For the millions" an obvious reference to those slaughtered by the mad man. In Dreamland, the Turtles face of against Hitler because a time traveling villian wants his brain to allow his race to have dreams, even if they are Hitler's insane dreams.

The new line, "I AM A MAN!" is stollen from Superman: At World's End (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/3252-superman-at-earths-end) in which Supes punches an android while screaming the immortal words. Linkara's delivery made it a classic line and his catch phrase, and I thought I'd make Rap say it when he punches Hitler.

[Cipher]

Am I alone in not being overly impressed with the animation of the 2nd-5th episodes? The first episode is great, mistakes aside...:P but the subsequent episodes slide IMO. In fact, I like the more consistent animation style of the later seasons. The Turtles look great, Shredder looks great, Krang and Bebop and Rocksteady look great, Splinter...well, he always looked great.The only one that doesn't really impress me is episode three. You want to see some great animation? Check the Rock Soldier's missle flying through the arcade in episode four. Or Leo jumping out of the car to slice the weather machine in that same episode.

Yes, there were design inconsistancies, but the whole presentation is so fluid that it doesn't matter. Compare that to say, seasons two through four, where the animation is often clunky and inconsistant, or seasons five through seven, where the designs are more detailed and on-model, but there's less fluidity.

He-Man was a very stark and redundant show, animation-wise, but perhaps because of its humble ambitions, it managed to be consistent in a way that no other show of its time was; solid lines, nice color palette.Again, if the choice is between inconsistant art and great animation, I'll take great animation. And the first season of Turtles delivers to this day.