TMNT being a parody of daredevil/comics

[sdp]

Does it bother you the fact that these characters you like were nothing but a parody of Daredevil and the gritty comics at the time?

It kind of bothers me when I think about it since they try to keep this franchise on a serious tone (at least the comics) when its basically nothing but a parody that became successful.

This isn't something like The Tick were its a parody of superheroes but its meant to be that. TMNT tries to be all serious about it.



Of course I still like the turtles and its not like I just found out about this. Just wondering if anyone else thinks this way. I know most are going to say no.

[Cipher]

Started out tongue-in-cheek, then got serious.

How difficult can it be to grasp that? And even after it left the realm of parody, much of Volume 1 was used as a playground for experimental, underground artists. The comics have always been very untraditional, and that's part of their charm, at least to me.

[Slap-Happy]

It dosen't bother me at all. All I get from it is that their origin is related to Daredevil's.

[Kendamu]

I actually like them more because of it. A lot of my favorite stories are serious stories that make fun of themselves or are set to an inherently humorous background. Even if the series takes on a real serious tone later on like the OT did with Red Sky, at the end of the day it's still a cheesy scifi martial arts revenge story starring one of the least likely animals to be portrayed as ninja.

[Andrew NDB]

Once again, from Peter Laird direct:

There are definitely parodic elements in TMNT, but to call it a parody is stretching the definition. I look on it as a fairly straightforward adventure story with some elements of parody.

However, it has been my experience that many journalists tend to be lazy, and calling it a parody is an easy way to describe it... even if it is not very accurate. -- PL

[Kendamu]

Looking at the title alone, it was totally a parody in the very beginning no matter what Peter Laird says. I won't play it stupid and say that it stayed a strict parody for long, though.

[sdp]

Wow, you guys are more defensive than I thought :lol:

But it doesn't matter what anyone says, it WAS a parody and the question is does it bother you?

It is what it is and it does kind of makes me think less of the TMNT universe which is why I try to not think about it.


Again don't take what I'm typing too literally, no matter what I'd like the turtles.

[Kendamu]

As I said before, I like TMNT more because of their parody roots. Serious stories dipped in humor are my favorite. It can be subtle, overt, or even unintentional and I still love it. It allows me to look at the same story from multiple angles depending on my mood.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

And the Foot Clan is a parody on the Hand.

[Hero]

More of a bricolage rather than a parody, borrowing elements and narratives from different texts.

===HERO

[Cipher]

More of a bricolage rather than a parody, borrowing elements and narratives from different texts.But with obvious humorous intent. The first several issues were total, intentional, cheese-fests.

[Spike Spiegel]

As I said before, I like TMNT more because of their parody roots. Serious stories dipped in humor are my favorite. It can be subtle, overt, or even unintentional and I still love it. It allows me to look at the same story from multiple angles depending on my mood.

And with stories like the Donatello/Jack Kirby arc, TMNT as a comic reminded me of all the things that I appreciated about comic books in the first place.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

From where is the mutagen borrowed?

[discordiatookie]

I have never seen it as a parody. Doesn't 'parody' means 'to take the piss out off'? Eastman and Laird were massive Daredevil and Frank Miller fans. Eastman especially. Why would they want to rip into it? I've always seen it as a homage to Daredevil. Fair enough, some of it is a bit tongue in cheek, but I wouldn't go as far as to say parody.

Even Peter Laird has said that it wasn't a parody, as quoted by AndrewNDB. I think that if it was originally wrote as one, then wouldn't he know? (Laird that is, not ANDB... :P)

Stick = Splinter
Hand = Foot
The whole 'kid getting hit by a cannister and blinded' thing...

Isn't this a homage to Daredevil? I see it as an expansion of the whole Daredevil series. Wouldn't a parody of Daredevil be an inept blind crime fighter getting into hilarious japes and scraps every month, a superhero version of Mister Magoo? I'm not arguing that the comics were deadly serious or anything, some of it is quite cheesy and tongue in cheek. But parody? Not in my opinion.

[Andrew NDB]

But it doesn't matter what anyone says

That's a good way to invite discussion, isn't it?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

And from which comics do the Utroms and Krang originate? Original idea?

[Candy Kappa]

The utroms appeared in Issue 3 volume 1
guess they're a original idea, but alien brains are not something new back then I guess

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The utroms appeared in Issue 3 volume 1
guess they're a original idea, but alien brains are not something new back then I guess

Maybe some DC or Marvel comic?

[Kendamu]

Even Peter Laird has said that it wasn't a parody, as quoted by AndrewNDB. I think that if it was originally wrote as one, then wouldn't he know? (Laird that is, not ANDB... :P)

http://ninjaturtles.com/origin/origin.htm

But then you have sources like this saying that, at the very least, the origin is a parody of Frank Miller's Daredevil. Not to say that you're totally wrong, though. A parody can in itself be a homage as well.

[Cipher]

But then you have sources like this saying that, at the very least, the origin is a parody of Frank Miller's Daredevil. Not to say that you're totally wrong, though. A parody can in itself be a homage as well.
Yeah, I think people (including Laird) are under the mistaken impression that a parody needs to be a scathing mockery. It doesn't. A parody can be quite loving to the source material.

The Turtles' origin is Daredevil's but with added elements of absurdity. That's parody ground right there, even if it is a well intended homage. The other half of the parody, shoving all the current comic cliches together with the added silliness of turtles, is the actual mockery.

[BuffaloWilder]

I don't seem why there would be a problem - I mean, look at Dave Sim's Cerebus. That began as a tried-and-true parody of Conan the Barbarian and Red Sonja, and blossomed outward from there - however, saying that, the first issue is certainly less of a parody than what Cerebus initially started out as. Their origin is certainly an homage to Daredevil in general, not just Frank Miller's run, but everything else - The Foot, and Splinter's name, among others - seems more like pastiche than parody.

As somebody else mentioned, for it to be considered a real tried-and-true parody, it'd need to be poking fun at its source material, either lovingly or no, in some way or another. And again, Dave Sim's first few issues of Cerebus are probably the best example, here - with Red Sophia, Elrod of Melvinbone, and so on. And, while there's certainly a wry sense of humor inherent in the concept, something Eastman and Laird do acknowledge, it's never really been the driving force behind the series. Although, while the cover of the first issue itself isn't really a take-off on the first issue of Ronin, the way it was shaded was certainly meant as a tribute.

When people mention that it was supposed to have been a take-off on all of the comic industry's contemporary cliches, I have to wonder - none of these things were especially prevalent, at the time. There was still several years to go before all of that began taking over, and this was due in part to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, along with Frank Miller and Alan Moore, and all of those cats.

[Protoman]

I would not call it parody, more a mild homage. Keep in mind how Laird and Eastman are BIG fans of Jack Kirby and his creations.

[plastroncafe]

And from which comics do the Utroms and Krang originate? Original idea?

I can't verify this in the slightest, but the Daleks of Doctor Who fame look an AWFUL lot like Utroms/Krang.

Does the connection to Miller's Daredevil's origin story bother me? Not in the slightest. I knew nothing about Daredevil when I started reading Turtles, and when I became aware of the homage it only enhanced the story.

I think my opinion would be different if the material was some how accessible due to the Wacky Daredevil In Jokes HAHA!

[Daniel Orduna]

nah it dosent bother me,its not like they copy or steal the idea soo
its cool with me:)

[BoggleKng]

Stick = Splinter
Hand = Foot
The whole 'kid getting hit by a cannister and blinded' thing...



Aside from this, where are the other elements? Yes, there are similar elements, but aren't all superheros or costumed crime fighters, all paraodies of each other?

[BuffaloWilder]

Well, the thing is, the use of similar names doesn't really mean it's a parody, by itself - that whole thing really rings more true as pastiche or homage than anything else, like I said before.

Now, that is true of the kind of figures that populated Cerebus' early run - like Red Sophia, the Roach, Elric of Melvinbone and so on. Those were certainly parodies, I think - so, there's your comparative example, for you.

[plastroncafe]

Aside from this, where are the other elements? Yes, there are similar elements, but aren't all superheros or costumed crime fighters, all paraodies of each other?

It's more than just that, the whole "how the turtles wound up in the sewers covered in ooze" followed what was pretty much Daredevil's origin story.

Man dives out into the street to save another from being hit by a truck carrying radioactive materials. Man gets hit by canister. Man gets super powers to replace the sight he lost during the accident.

With the turtles the canister hits only only the man, but a glass bowl of turtles.

Now add that to Daredevil's master being named Stick, and his enemies being The Hand....

[BoggleKng]

aha, the devil is in the details..

[Daniel Orduna]

funny...tmnt are my fav comic super hereos of all time...and I kindda think daredevil sucks....:ohwell: