The Effect of Modern "Humor" On Movies, TV, and Pop Culture

[Spike Spiegel]

I was just thinking about how in today's pop culture, everything gets made fun of, to the point where the really important things start to lose their ultimate meaning.

For example, take the recent death of Michael Jackson. The Friday after he died, one of my MySpace friends posted a bulletin titled "My Top Nine Michael Jackson Jokes." I mean, seriously, WTF?! This is someone who was important to a lot of people all over the globe. Is that what he should be reduced to, "jokes?" The man just died!

Also, I think the recent crop of poorly executed "spoof" films such as Epic Movie, Scary Movie, Superhero Movie, and Meet The Spartans contribute to this negative effect. Some people I know don't even watch movies seriously anymore. They're just waiting for the crappy, perverted version in the next "spoof."

I think that it can be very fun and positive to take a satirical look at all of the sometimes ridiculous things that come and go over the course of our lives. But where does it end? Are we doomed to become a culture of mentally lazy slobs because we can't handle anything "serious"?

[Mecha Cow]

I really don't see your point here. It's always been this way. This isn't a recent development at all.

[ThirdMarioBro]

As far as MJ goes, it's mostly due to the fact that people don't have respect for anything or anyone anymore. People just suck, plain and simple.

[Mecha Cow]

Bullsh*t. People are going to make references to Michael Jackson because he's part of pop culture, just like people reference George W. Bush, Batman, or yes, Jesus Christ. As with everything there's going to be some distasteful jokes now and again, but the act itself is not inherently disrespectful at all.

[Spike Spiegel]

I really don't see your point here. It's always been this way. This isn't a recent development at all.

What I mean is that, at least among young people close to my age, there is a sub-culture of sheer stupidity. These are tomorrow's voters, stockholders, etc. What kind of state can one expect the world to be in in coming years? :(:(:(

I just wish achievement, potential, etc. was glorified at least as much as the other stuff. When I read books about great people like MLK, Benjamin Banneker, or Howard Hughes, it reminds me that humans are put here for more than just copulating and carrying out the functions of life. It seems that people forget all the amazing things they are really capable of far too often.

[Mecha Cow]

The media is for the most part based on cheap, fast entertainment. That's what's profitable, so of course you're going to see a lot of stupid sh*t. It's always been that way. That's just how it is. People are not any more stupid now than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

And no offense, but people of your age generally are stupid. It comes with being a teenager.

[Sewer Bull]

I heard a good joke about Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson, but I'm too scared to post it here.

Actually, it's not even funny at all, just explaining why he died right after she did.

[The Shelf]

I heard that one, Mino. I'm no Jackson fan, but even I thought it was too soon.

Anyway, regarding the OP, I find it more stupid that people hated Michael Jackson up to his death only to mourn him afterward. What. The. Hell.

[Cure]

I was just thinking about how in today's pop culture, everything gets made fun of, to the point where the really important things start to lose their ultimate meaning.

For example, take the recent death of Michael Jackson. The Friday after he died, one of my MySpace friends posted a bulletin titled "My Top Nine Michael Jackson Jokes." I mean, seriously, WTF?! This is someone who was important to a lot of people all over the globe. Is that what he should be reduced to, "jokes?" The man just died!

Also, I think the recent crop of poorly executed "spoof" films such as Epic Movie, Scary Movie, Superhero Movie, and Meet The Spartans contribute to this negative effect. Some people I know don't even watch movies seriously anymore. They're just waiting for the crappy, perverted version in the next "spoof."

I think that it can be very fun and positive to take a satirical look at all of the sometimes ridiculous things that come and go over the course of our lives. But where does it end? Are we doomed to become a culture of mentally lazy slobs because we can't handle anything "serious"?

You are absolutely right, so I'm expecting you to do something about it. I will hold you responsible if an immediate change isn't brought about.

[Cipher]

Disrespect for the deceased is already twice as funny and half as offensive as Epic Movie could ever hope to be.

Case rested.

[ToTheNines]

For example, take the recent death of Michael Jackson. The Friday after he died, one of my MySpace friends posted a bulletin titled "My Top Nine Michael Jackson Jokes." I mean, seriously, WTF?! This is someone who was important to a lot of people all over the globe. Is that what he should be reduced to, "jokes?" The man just died

Most people our age don't care about Michael and you can't blame them. MJ jokes have been popular for a while, so the recent media coverage just spiked interest in them again.

Now I've always loved his music so I was never fond of the jokes, but if another famous person accused of molestation died and I was hardly exposed to his work, I might make a cheap joke my self.

[Hero]

Good thread, Spike.

Respect is dead, it would seem.

The Jackson jokes and remarks that have surfaced just show how dark-hearted some people are sadly.

I can't understand how some people can immerse themselves in poor quality texts like the Scary/Whatever Movie + series. To each thier own I guess.

===HERO

[Peanut]

I don't understand why what he's saying is being dismissed so quickly.

I don't agree with the sentiment that this sh*t has "always been this way". Sure, these kind of jokes, and that mode of thinking has always existed, but it gets more exposure, and there's simply MORE of it, than there ever has been.

The thing is, before the internet, those jokes about dead people, those super perverted stories, they were kept for very specific people. Your close friends, maybe even your family. It's the kind of sh*t people would giggle about in their basement with friends.

Now, that kind of stuff is broadcast for the entire world to see, 3 out of every 4 people are, at all times, trying to make a horribly off-colour joke. You've got shut-in's who sit on their computer, day and night, and joke about things that usually have had zero impact on their life. And every time we open up an internet browser, and someone is making a joke about child molestation or cancer, we become more and more desensitized to it. With that comes the invent of more and more retarded sh*t to joke about. Once insulting the dead has been beaten to death, move on to rape.

Oh, yeah? Rape? You know, when some f*cked up crack-fiend attacks and has his way with an innocent woman, sometimes killing her afterwards, and generally scarring their victims for life? Really funny, right? A f*cking HOOT! Something that it's fine to make fun of at this point in time, and something that is now WIDELY THOUGHT OF AS ACCEPTABLE.

I'm not even saying this is a recent turn of events, but it has come to a point, within the last decade, that absolutely nothing is beyond making a joke about. And again, I'm not saying that those kind of things weren't talked about, or joked about before, but at this point those kind of things are now widely accepted by the popular audience, and that makes me f*cking sick.

PS Great thread, BTW. An actual discussion on here? Christ.

[Mecha Cow]

There's a pretty big difference between Epic Movie and rape jokes.

[Peanut]

I wasn't really looking at it from the stand-point of those movies. I just get sick of the way people shrug off the messed up sh*t people say these days with "people have always said these things!". I was really onto my own point, because I think what homeboy is saying about movies being "taken seriously" is pretty f*cking stupid, but that the world now simply makes fun of anything and everything is something I agree with.

[Mecha Cow]

Well, I do think people have always "made fun of" everything (in the sense that they made reference to it, not necessarily maliciously or for shock value). I think what you're referring to is more along the lines of 4Chan-esque degenerate trash that can hardly be called humor, which I don't feel has become socially acceptable (outside of those circles).

[Cipher]

There's a pretty big difference between Epic Movie and rape jokes.How? Epic Movie pretty much raped jokes.

To respond seriously to this topic, the opening post is so much alarmist bullsh*t. I love offensive humor, but I can't stand Epic Movie. It's just offensively bad. In fact, had that movie taken some ridiculously underhanded shot at a dead celebrity, I probably would've laughed harder at that than any of the luke warm pop-culture references and fart jokes that the film is made of.

At least mocking Michael Jackson is wryly crude and intentionally tasteless. This latest string of "spoof" movies are just embarrassments to anyone watching, writing, or in anyway connected to them. If you're saying that they now constitute America's humor, you must live in a strange world where everyone makes a vague reference to another movie, doesn't deliver a punchline, and then doubles up with laughter.

Seriously, at least perform a fair test between Michael Jackson jokes and Epic Movie. After the first five minutes of the film, you'll be begging for someone to throw a child molestation riff your way.

Well, I do think people have always "made fun of" everything (in the sense that they made reference to it, not necessarily maliciously or for shock value). I think what you're referring to is more along the lines of 4Chan-esque degenerate trash that can hardly be called humor, which I don't feel has become socially acceptable (outside of those circles). On the opposite side of safe pop-culture references-without-real-joke movies, is 4Chan spawned internet sh*t. This is also not okay. Humor needs a little spice, but "LOL HER IZ 2 GURLZ AND A CUP" ain't it.

Bottom line, if a joke is going to be offensive, fine. Great, in fact. But it needs to be wryly offensive, not just shocking for shock's sake. Michael Jackson jokes might be right on that boarder to some of you, but honestly, it's no reason to proclaim the end of common decency. This isn't someone laughing in your face after your father's died of cancer. This is harmless prodding at a public figure you'll never know and who up until a week ago was one of the most contraversial celebrities alive.

This is many things, but this isn't 4Chan, and it isn't Epic Movie. And that's alright with me.

And...end rant.

[Dark 5cythe]

I think that people cope with bad situations by making fun of it.

Cipher wrote:

"Bottom line, if a joke is going to be offensive, fine. Great, in fact. But it needs to be wryly offensive, not just shocking for shock's sake. Michael Jackson jokes might be right on that boarder to some of you, but honestly, it's no reason to proclaim the end of common decency. This isn't someone laughing in your face after your father's died of cancer. This is harmless prodding at a public figure you'll never know and who up until a week ago was one of the most contraversial celebrities alive."

And truer words have not been written.

I find it odd that the very same people and media that only a little while ago where laughing at the man and calling him wacko jacko. Now they proclaim his name from the mountains and cry like they lost a relative.

The media coverage was ABSURD. It was done for the $$$.

[PAAATE]

Swedish comedian Magnus Betnér said this in his show "Inget är heligt" (Nothing is sacred) a couple of years ago:

"And then there's everything that we secularized people, that can't give a crap about either Jesus or Mohamed, everything that we think is a sensitive area. Cos there are things, I mean; every citizen of Stockholm has something, if it isn't AIK, then it's Djurgården, that these doofuses think is sacred. Gothenburg, the whole ****ing city is ****ing sacred in Gothenburg. You should have seen how many people there were outside of Harry's here in Gothenburg when I had said that Gothenburg is like a community for retarded fishermen. There were a lot of people. Because all people have something that they think is as sensitive as Muslims think it is when you draw Mohamed as a terrorist. So if we allow that, then we'll have to allow jokes about Jesus being gay and then we'll have to allow that you say that Gothenburg is a community for retarded fishermen, and then we'll have to allow that you make jokes about Stockholm. What if we turn it around, if I'll have to respect Mohamed, then I'll of course have to respect Jesus and Gothenburg and Stockholm and everything that you real people with real problems think is sensitive. I mean, there are a lot of people here that knows someone that's fatally ill, has divorces, that can't have kids, that have given birth and didn't want to have kids, that's even worse y'know! What the **** am I supposed to talk about if I have to respect all these things, then I'll have to stand here and be like "Well, what do you think? Did people invent the q-tip before they had earwax or what?" That's what comedy becomes y'know... Until, of course, someone reacts to that too, sooner or later. "Oh, what the ****, you shouldn't joke about that, my grandma went deaf when she cleaned her ear once, that's actually ****ing sensitive!" Because... That's how we work, y'know, you get upset. The only thing to do that makes sense is that freedom of speech is for everyone all the time. Even Runar has to be able to travel around and spread his crap, and then the rest of us will have to disagree. And if National Socialistic Front thinks that it seems to be a good idea to go to election with the policy that we shouldn't have elections, then let them do that. It has to be that way, freedom of speech must be for everyone, even the one's that don't want it."

Ok... This quote was way longer than I remembered it.. But... It represents how I feel on the subject, so... Yeah...

[poiuytre]

It isn't anything new but like Peanut said the presentation has changed. With the internet there's anonymity and an immense audience for off-color jokes that normally would have been reserved for closed circles. With enough time going over this, the general social standards of what is acceptable and what isn't are bound to change along with it. Naturally it'll reflect on movies and TV. This is strangely enough in contrast with the increasing politically correctness society is demanding. Maybe they're related, I don't know.

However I support the notion that everything should be allowed to be criticized and made fun of. The latter is a tough cookie tho seeing as I sometimes feel like a lot of shock "humor" is just about being offensive rather than being an actual joke about something offensive. But it's hard to expect tact when everyone can draw their line elsewhere in a free society.

The comedic bankruptcy of Friedberg and Seltzer flicks is a different topic altogether. Most of their "jokes" consist of referencing (non-black) movie icons and make them talk about sexual deviancy or act out whatever they see on BET. Usually not very offensive, but it is downright stupid.

[Dark 5cythe]

you bring up a very very good point poiuytre.

With society demanding from us so much political correctness, It seems my (the current group of 20-30 somethings) generation has found a way to rebel against that. And the internet has given people refuge.

We can't let the sensitive minority continue to dictate what the majority can do or say.

Do you think I care that a group of people are offended because of something I drew? There are things I hold sacred that people make fun of all the time. They have that right. And I wont stop them. But no one better try to stop me either.

[Spike Spiegel]

I
However I support the notion that everything should be allowed to be criticized and made fun of. The latter is a tough cookie tho seeing as I sometimes feel like a lot of shock "humor" is just about being offensive rather than being an actual joke about something offensive. But it's hard to expect tact when everyone can draw their line elsewhere in a free society.



Humor is an important and healthy part of human life. Seriously. I didn't set out to make this the "Why are they crucifying Michael Jackson?" or "Epic Movie sucks!" thread. I was using those as examples. What I was really trying to say is that there should be balance in humor, sexual content, violence, etc. Spoof films and parodies can be classified as a sort of art, I think. Look at stuff like Spaceballs, Airplane!, and the I'm a Marvel, and I'm a DC parody series on youTube. To a certain extent, even our beloved TMNT is a parody of other comics...

I just feel that the more recent developments with jokes being used for sheer shock value, etc. is like a sort of reverse censorship...you're laughing at something without really seeing the value of it. Instead of having themes and content without humor or levity, it's all humor and levity without themes or content. It's an insult to the audience as well as the people or franchises that are being made fun of.

[Mecha Cow]

Those sorts of things are just poor attempts at comedy by people with no actual wit or talent. It's fairly easy for them to get a podium through the internet and such, but most people recognise that stuff for the trash it is. Sure, plenty of people still go and see those -Movies (and I hate every single one of them for it), but generally they're still considered some of the worst movies of all time. I don't think it's really negatively affecting our culture in the long run, and hopefully it's just a horrible trend that eventually goes away (most likely to be replaced by something equally horrible, but never mind that).

[Fledermaus]

Peanut has made some good points about these things having existed in the past, but not receiving the same amount of attention, glorification and indirect approval that they receive today.

There will always be would-be child-eating goat molesters jerking off in their mother's basements fantasizing about their ideal companions... However, most of society (so far) does not approve of such actions. We do not consider them bold or sexy, so people with such desires do not fulfill these ambitions.

Back say two-hundred or even sixty years ago a man who could provide for a woman and family was seen as masculine -- now, the typical dad is an emasculated goofball. Every girl out there is either or nagging c*nt or your fantasy sex toy. Every guy's either a dickless loser or doing the most asinine things to prove his balls. You want to be "responsible?" Treat others with respect? Be prepared to be labeled the loser, just like that loser dentist in The Hangover.

All it takes is the approval of society for massive social change to occur. Without artists, musicians, media to move audiences, listeners, consumer -- there is no fire. We broke the taboo of rewarding murderers and monsters with fame with books like IN COLD BLOOD; movies that featured rape and gratuitous violence (to which most of us are now desensitized) heralded one of the most rape-infested decades in America -- the 70's and 80's.

It begins with harmless curiosity, like with Hitchcock's films -- brilliantly made. What could be more harmless than fantasizing about murdering people and watching them writhing, screaming in pain on the screen while you have your little orgasms? What's wrong with obsessing about it if you yourself would never do it? When controversial topics are introduced to our culture with great finesse, they become acceptable to those who are merely kept at bay.

Those who tend to be sicker in the mind, seeing that society does in a sense condone their actions, by finding entertainment in them, have less fear. Meanwhile, most of us become brainwashed to remain indifferent while the world crumbles -- we are made to believe that we are irrelevant. Instead of taking action -- instead of moving, we watch others move. And then we go play in our fantasy video game world.

Either you take it critically, take action or you remain a happy little golem. Or unhappy, complaining and saying how all this sh*t sucks, why care for anything because it's all going to hell. It's kind of hard to tell.

EDIT: On the topic of Michael Jackson -- genius often goes hand in hand with insanity. I prefer not to drag people down for the fun of it. I know how it feels, and I know it encourages the victims (or their sympathizers) to take revenge when they use their intellect to destroy, rather than create. If it weren't for Jackson, I think most pop music today would sound like David Bowie.

[Ra]

Now I've always loved his music so I was never fond of the jokes, but if another famous person accused of molestation died and I was hardly exposed to his work, I might make a cheap joke my self.
This.

The thing is, before the internet, those jokes about dead people, those super perverted stories, they were kept for very specific people. Your close friends, maybe even your family. It's the kind of sh*t people would giggle about in their basement with friends.

Now, that kind of stuff is broadcast for the entire world to see, 3 out of every 4 people are, at all times, trying to make a horribly off-colour joke. You've got shut-in's who sit on their computer, day and night, and joke about things that usually have had zero impact on their life. And every time we open up an internet browser, and someone is making a joke about child molestation or cancer, we become more and more desensitized to it. With that comes the invent of more and more retarded sh*t to joke about. Once insulting the dead has been beaten to death, move on to rape.
And this.

Over exposure = Desensitisation. Desensitisation = More willing to make jokes and crack off about these kinds of things.

Let's face it. Our generation is a generation full of assholes right now. I don't think anyone before us would have cracked off any foul humour or tasteless jokes about people dying or getting raped. Yet look at today. People in my TAFE course last semester are a prime example. Some were great, loved poking fun at people and their friends and what-not. They knew where to draw the line. Other people... well, I know one of them ragged on the death of Heath Ledger at least once a week. We have a file-sharing system there, which got flooded with pictures of pr0nz and mocking people's deaths. It got sorted out eventually, but the fact that they were so willing to do that kinda drives the point home about this generation being desensitised.

Rape, sex, drugs, racism, and death. You can tell the current standard of humour is going downhill when everyone starts making tasteless jokes about things like this. Thank god that not everyone is like this though. But slowly but surely... as we start getting exposed to this more and more... it starts seeping into our popular culture. Those bastards in my TAFE course? They could be making movies or games in five years. Which sort of scares me, and hopes that what they think is funny is just a phase and not a permanent mindset.

Fun story. A few months ago I was on a train going home. It was the middle of the day, and I was listening to my iPod. I didn't get to hear the message "all passengers please leave the train and move onto the next platform", so I was in the carriage alone with a man and his five-year-old son. Seeing that we were alone, I thought I would go out and check what was going on. Then I see a train instructor coming in and kindly told us to move out. I was just about to get out when I heard the father down the carriage. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something similar to "You can't f***in' tell me what to f***in' do you d***hole."

He said that.

In front of his five year old son.

If we think we are low now, what standards are we setting our kids? Not only just in movies and television, but in real life as well? Insulting people to their faces... cracking off jokes about rape and murder... They say that popular culture reflects on the state of the world as we see it. Those examples of Michael Jackson jokes and crap like Epic Movie are probably reflections of that. Which is a bit disappointing. It makes me wonder about that kid. If he grows up with his dad swearing every sentence or so and considers it to be normal... well, won't that feed into the cycle? It grows more and more like a snowball gathering speed, sinking the bar lower and lower to the point where we won't even know what is acceptable and what is tasteless any more.

Then again, this is just me rambling. I don't think we are that doomed as of yet.

Are we?

...dear god, I've rambled again, haven't I? :(

[XERO]

Rape, sex, drugs, racism, and death.

As the world turns, huh?

The more society advances, the more insane and disturbed society becomes. I mean, if cloning goats and sh*t of that nature brings 'praise', what else can be identified as 'the right way'?

If Adolf Hitler can be labeled a hero to some people, what's stopping Jeffrey Dahmer from that label? And you wanna bet most people would also find that amusing and humerous?

Face it, a 'normal' person nowadays won't last long. Too much crazy crap has happened to the point where we are just about used to it. And if we're not careful, it's only gonna get much worse... but... when are we ever really careful?

I don't think we are that doomed as of yet.

Are we?

If you want my opinion, the death of MJ brought us one step closer.

[Jester]

04o2V2ah5dI

[ThirdMarioBro]

Mecha, I understand that MJ is a part of popular culture, and people are going to make jokes about him until the end of time. Honestly, he brought a lot of it on himself. Every popular figure is a target for ridicule, though the red target on his face was/is bigger than most.

What I'm referring to is the dill weeds who decided the very next morning (or earlier) to go to town on him before his corpse is even cold while people are trying to grieve. I find that pretty disgusting. Its not too different than if I were to go to a funeral for somebody's aunt. Now imagine that aunt was a two-timing whore, and everybody knew it, but I

I don't understand why what he's saying is being dismissed so quickly.

I don't agree with the sentiment that this sh*t has "always been this way". Sure, these kind of jokes, and that mode of thinking has always existed, but it gets more exposure, and there's simply MORE of it, than there ever has been.

The thing is, before the internet, those jokes about dead people, those super perverted stories, they were kept for very specific people. Your close friends, maybe even your family. It's the kind of sh*t people would giggle about in their basement with friends.

Now, that kind of stuff is broadcast for the entire world to see, 3 out of every 4 people are, at all times, trying to make a horribly off-colour joke. You've got shut-in's who sit on their computer, day and night, and joke about things that usually have had zero impact on their life. And every time we open up an internet browser, and someone is making a joke about child molestation or cancer, we become more and more desensitized to it. With that comes the invent of more and more retarded sh*t to joke about. Once insulting the dead has been beaten to death, move on to rape.

Oh, yeah? Rape? You know, when some f*cked up crack-fiend attacks and has his way with an innocent woman, sometimes killing her afterwards, and generally scarring their victims for life? Really funny, right? A f*cking HOOT! Something that it's fine to make fun of at this point in time, and something that is now WIDELY THOUGHT OF AS ACCEPTABLE.

I'm not even saying this is a recent turn of events, but it has come to a point, within the last decade, that absolutely nothing is beyond making a joke about. And again, I'm not saying that those kind of things weren't talked about, or joked about before, but at this point those kind of things are now widely accepted by the popular audience, and that makes me f*cking sick.

PS Great thread, BTW. An actual discussion on here? Christ.

Winner.

I think we can agree that the internet brought this kind of humor out of the closet, but it was TV shows like Family Guy that mainstreamed it. I'm a big fan, but I can seriously do without the damned rape and fetus jokes.

[Mecha Cow]

I know. I was referring more to 'Michael Jackson' jokes and not as much to 'Michael Jackson is dead' jokes. The former is to be expected, but I totally agree that the latter is unacceptable.


I mean, if cloning goats and sh*t of that nature brings 'praise', what else can be identified as 'the right way'?
What do you mean by this?

[XERO]

What do you mean by this?

I was just trying to state an opinion about on what's 'right and wrong' nowadays. Guess I went a little over the point there.