We Fans Get Shafted

[Spitfire]

Look at this
http://www.gijoecollectorsset.com/

And this
http://www.transformerscollectorsset.com/

I saw these advertised on the Shout website today. I gotta say us turtles fans sure don't get very good treatment. I know these two series have movies out and the hype for them is huge but turtles being the iconic 90's children's program it is I fail to see why it doesn't get something like this. I know the whole series isn't out yet but neither was GI Joe. I just looked and the first season was just released.

Maybe with the new movie on the horizon we can badger Lion's Gate to give us a full series set and a reason to get it. A cool box deal like that would be nice. I wouldn't mind paying for the episodes again if they presented them well. I need new copies of them anyways, mine are getting old.

[sdp]

Larger fanbase and have been around longer.

TMNT gets treated very good to other shows from its era.

[Roseangelo]

Companies, including Mirage, treat TMNT as a way to make a quick buck, not as something to treat with quality. Look at the sad excuse for movie box sets coming out in a couple weeks. This is how it is likely to continue until Mirage shapes up its act. So, basically, never.

[CyberCubed]

I am just happy Lionsgate IS releasing the old toon on DVD in the first place.

We have everything except the Lord Dregg episodes and the 3 eps they skipped, which is pretty damn good. And I'm sure Seasons 9 and 10 will come out next year on DVD anyway.

[Samhain]

It would be nice, but we cant all be happy, always.

[Spitfire]

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats. These shows had no substance, were clearly made to market toys yet are somehow more popular then turtles. The turtles was huge with toys but the toy tie ins weren't shoved in your face nearly as much. The whole series wasn't based around toy tie ins. Also turtles had a background and a future. It had a legacy established before it started as a series and after it continued. This is why I understand the fan base being comprised of older people. I also understand there still being one as the new series was pretty popular when it was on. The new Gi Joe series didn't even get a second season.

Also turtles is pretty popular right now. I see turtles stuff caked all over Hot Topics and Spencers. They sell out of it a lot as well. I can't walk around the street in a turtles shirt without someone stopping me and commenting on it, it happened to me 3 times the other day. I hardly see any GI Joe stuff. I see more Transformers but not close to the amount of turtles. This could just be my area however I can't speak for the rest of the country.

I just compare turtles to every other show I like that I own on DVD and get disappointed. All the other series I enjoy get full season box sets. The artwork is always great or straight from the series and it looks like some effort actually went into making the DVD.

[Raph's Girl]

Larger fanbase and have been around longer.

TMNT gets treated very good to other shows from its era.

The G.I Joe figs first came out in the 60's but the cartoon and comics didn't come out till 1985.

Transformers figs have been around since the 70's but the cartoon/anime and Marvel comics series didn't start till September 1984.

So technically comic wise TMNT is older...

[Spitfire]

Yeah my Dad used to play with them. He told me about how cool they were that the tanks were really metal and stuff. He never played with Transformers though. But even playing with the toys as a child I don't see him jumping up to go see the movie. Again though I think you'd have to be insane to want to go watch a movie like that at the age of 40+. The series was what brought it to this generation. The 80's kids got their taste of it, and I assume this is what the movie is marketing itself to, as well as kids of today.

[Zachatello00]

What it comes down to is that the companies behind the Turtles just don't care as much about them as hasbro seems to care about transformers/gi joe. Super awesome collectors sets vs. Toy lines they decide not to go forward with. Go playmates!

[Spitfire]

I was under the impression the old toon was basically in the hands of Fred Wolf and Mirage had nothing to do with it. I seem to remember Dan telling us they don't even have to tell them release dates or anything if they don't feel like it.

[GK Punk]

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats. These shows had no substance, were clearly made to market toys yet are somehow more popular then turtles

Maybe because they had years worth of comics and mythology behind them as well? Just because they aren't TMNT doesn't make their fandom any less Valid. I prefer GI Joe to TMNT in all honesty. Let's also keep in mind GI Joe has a fanbase that dates as far back as the 60s.

The new Gi Joe series didn't even get a second season.

Yes, it did. It was on for two seasons.

I hardly see any GI Joe stuff. I see more Transformers but not close to the amount of turtles. This could just be my area however I can't speak for the rest of the country.

Yeah my area has always had tons of GI Joe stuff in a lot of stores, not just hot topic. Skate shops even carry GI Joe logo'd shirts here. I get comments on GI Joe, Transformers and Masters of the Universe shirts just as much as I do when wearing TMNT or Superman.

[Spitfire]

Maybe because they had years worth of comics and mythology behind them as well? Just because they aren't TMNT doesn't make their fandom any less Valid. I prefer GI Joe to TMNT in all honesty. Let's also keep in mind GI Joe has a fanbase that dates as far back as the 60s.
That's true but as I said the series wasn't made for the generation that played with the first toys or read the comics. The series was made for 80's kids and was made to market action figures. I'm not saying it isn't valid I just feel turtles is owed the same respect.

Yes, it did. It was on for two seasons.

I checked IMDB and it said there was one episode in season 2 and 14 episodes total. This site might be wrong though.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478074/episodes

Yeah my area has always had tons of GI Joe stuff in a lot of stores, not just hot topic. Skate shops even carry GI Joe logo'd shirts here. I get comments on GI Joe, Transformers and Masters of the Universe shirts just as much as I do when wearing TMNT or Superman.
I guess it depends on where you are geographically. I know you don't live to far from me though. I see a lot of Transformers around my school, not so much other stuff.

[GK Punk]

That's true but as I said the series wasn't made for the generation that played with the first toys or read the comics. The series was made for 80's kids and was made to market action figures. I'm not saying it isn't valid I just feel turtles is owed the same respect.


Actually, I feel they do too. I guess over the years I've just come to accept that many people don't view them that way. Most will always view the 87 show as the "Original" despite the comics, and no matter how good of a story in future version will tell. It really is unfair.

I think if someone else had the license for TMNT DVDs, we'd probably get better box sets similar to stuff like this. It's really a shame BCI Eclipse went under, they did a spectacular job with all the DVD sets they did for Filmation shows.

[Spitfire]

Tiffany has a Ghostbusters DVD that was put out by Timelife I think it was. I think they did a good job on it. I wish they would have done the turtles. That company you mentioned would have been great too.

[Jester]

As much as I'd love a TMNT: The Complete Series box set with new spiffy bonus features and pack ins, I loathe boxsets for the simple fact that shelving them is a nightmare in itself.

[Spitfire]

As much as I'd love a TMNT: The Complete Series box set with new spiffy bonus features and pack ins, I loathe boxsets for the simple fact that shelving them is a nightmare in itself.

Sometimes. What if it was packaged like the DC series? Or in a box filled with slim cases like a lot of TV series come now? Even the way they did Season 4 would work. They were putting 13 episodes a disk in the beginning. If they did that again they could do it in 15 disks. It would fit in three boxes the size of the season 4 set. From there they just package it nicely and there you go. They could even toss in a nice bonus features dsk with nothing but the bonus material on it.

These are all pipe dreams I guess but I hold out hope someone at Lion's Gate reads these boards once in awhile and at least steals our good ideas.

[GK Punk]

yeah BCI Eclipse just put them in boxes that would fit on a DVD Shelf with other dvds, they were just wider because of the amount of discs that were in them. Something like that would be ideal.

[Jester]

I'd double dip if they released something that was conveniently packaged and had decent extra features, heck the Turtle Tips need to be put on a DVD somewhere...or Playmates Toy ads...or other Turtle commercials of the time. ;)

[johnnyblaze]

Companies, including Mirage, treat TMNT as a way to make a quick buck, not as something to treat with quality. Look at the sad excuse for movie box sets coming out in a couple weeks. This is how it is likely to continue until Mirage shapes up its act. So, basically, never.

If I'm not mistaken they don't have final say in stuff like that so in reality there truly is only so much they can do when it comes to stuff like that.

[ToTheNines]

The G.I Joe figs first came out in the 60's but the cartoon and comics didn't come out till 1985.

Transformers figs have been around since the 70's but the cartoon/anime and Marvel comics series didn't start till September 1984.


Maybe because they had years worth of comics and mythology behind them as well?



True, but this stuff is only for people who watched that show. My dad played with GI Joes, yet I'm more likely to get the show on DVD than he is even though I wasn't nuts about it as a kid just because I watched the show. But if you're saying they have a bigger fanbase, I couldn't argue.

I just hate the fact that Lionsgate has the contract on this show, when I know there's got to be another company who'd treat this show right.

[Dragon Turtle]

Larger fanbase and have been around longer.

TMNT gets treated very good to other shows from its era.


I would be happy if TMNT got at least the same treatment as , Dungeons n Dragons, BraveStarr, Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors or even Filmation's Ghostbusters.

[GK Punk]

And I believe all of those were BCI Eclipse, which is exactly who I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm really upset they had to close their doors, they did such fantastic work and every show they touched. I think their Masters of the Universe DVDs were some of the best box sets I've ever had.

[Blade Raider]

The G.I Joe figs first came out in the 60's but the cartoon and comics didn't come out till 1985.

Transformers figs have been around since the 70's but the cartoon/anime and Marvel comics series didn't start till September 1984.

So technically comic wise TMNT is older...
There's so many wrong statements in your post.

Let's begin with that last statement.

GI Joe: A Real American Hero (sometimes GI Joe vs. Cobra. You know, when the fiction was added) started in 1982 with the toys and the Marvel Comics (I'd have to check the dates). I'm not sure which of the two came out first, toys or comics, but I believe it was the comics. The cartoon started in late 82-83 as a mini-series and then became a full series in 1985.

Transformers, on the other hand, started with their Marvel comics in May of 1984. The same month that TMNT #1 was released. The toys came out months later and the cartoon did indeed start in September of 84.

EDIT: I went and checked, TF # 1 was released on May 8th, 1984 with the cover date of September. That could have caused some of the confusion.

Now then, if you haven't figured it out from the above paragraph about GI Joe, it beats both TMNT and Transformers by over a year.

Transformers, the brand, did not exist until 84. Before then, most of the toys belonged to the toyline Micromen (known better as Micronauts in the US). Some belonged to other toylines as well, but the bulk came from there. Saying Transformers existed as a toyline since the 70's is like saying Power Rangers existed since the 70's because of it's mostly unrelated Japanese counterpart, Super Sentai. You probably could agrue about that point until the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that Transformers did not exist AS Transformers until 1984.

Hope this has been informative and as always...
http://vault.error-403.net/files/3/Public/NowWeKnow.jpg



Anyways, if they make a full series set, there are things that will make me buy it.

1) The missing episodes, damnit!
2) Corrected episode order. I want those Europe episodes and the missing episodes in the right places. Also, parts of seasons 4 and 6 are out of order (though that's fixed by switching around the discs).
3) Better quality on volumes 1-6. The VHS quality sucks at times.
4) More extras while keeping the old one.

Aside from the first and maybe the second one, I doubt it'd ever happen. Knowing companies, they'll just repack all the old discs and maybe add a bonus disc.


Back on topic of TMNT getting shafted. Both GI Joe and Transformers are much bigger than TMNT right now. If it was the early 90's, than it's be the opposite (TMNT was big and GI Joe and TF were dying). To compare them right now would be like comparing a peasant and a knight. Which one do you think is going to get all the rewards and glory?

[GodzFire]

It's a joke that a series as popular as TMNT has gotten this treatment.

- Missing episodes, with the publisher refusing to acknowledge the problem

- Poor episode quality, not even going back to the original material

- Episodes out of order, even by SEASON!

- Next to no special features considering the huge amount of potential stuff like toys, character profiles, voice actors, behind the scenes, commentary ("full frame" and "mono 2.0" aren't special features!)

- Non-uniform DVD releases with repetitive artwork

I agree, TMNT has been treated very poorly compared to other DVD releases, and it's very sad that most "fans" are happy with it.

This is the only chance we got for these releases. We miss our chance now to say something, we'll never have another one, (I highly doubt Lionsgate is going to put the series out on BluRay)

[ZariusTwo]

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats. These shows had no substance

That's a LOAD of bulls*it you're snorting there. It's obvious you never watched those shows at all.

[Spitfire]

I've seen all of those shows actually. I used to watch Transformers all the time, the Beast Wars one. When I was really little I watched He-man and I used to love Thundercats. Coming back to them as an adult however my child lenses were gone and that is how I viewed them. It was about merchandise. He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad.

To be honest I'm sure I'd feel that way about turtles if I hadn't grew up with it. Tiffany bought Ghostbusters recently and it was pretty terrible. She loves it though because she grew up watching it.

[Blade Raider]

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats.
What does Max Steel have to do with this? That was made in the early 2000's, not the 80's like every other show you mentioned.

Also, ThunderCats fairs better than most of those shows. The only problem I see with ThunderCats is the forced morals at the end of each episode. It was created to be a good TV show and not a toy ad, the rest were.

He-Man was the first to be allowed to make a cartoon tie-in for toys. I can't really say anything else about it because I've honestly never seen a full episode of it.

You say you've seen Beast Wars, well that's my bread and butter and I consider it on par with 2k3 in terms of depth, storytelling, and having toys in the show. Beast Machines, the follow up to BW, is arguably one of the deepest non-anime animations I've ever seen. It's hated by fans for ruining the BW characters that continue into BM from BW (also, most of the toys were god awful too boot).

I think what helps the OT is that it wasn't suppose to be taken seriously. Transformers and GI Joe were suppose to be serious. I'm currently watching that Transformers boxset and I randomly just start laughing from the absurdity of some of it. Also helpping the OT is it's small cast. It's clear that both TF and GI Joe have too many characters.

Still, I consider all of them better than cartoons these days. Nowadays, it can't be a cartoon unless it has a card game or Pokemon-ish gimmick in it. They even tried to make a season like that for TMNT!

As for animation, ya don't have a leg to stand on because most of those shows were animated by Toei, including TMNT. You've just become accustomed to the OT's sometimes crappy animation.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

I've seen all of those shows actually. I used to watch Transformers all the time, the Beast Wars one. When I was really little I watched He-man and I used to love Thundercats. Coming back to them as an adult however my child lenses were gone and that is how I viewed them. It was about merchandise. He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad.

To be honest I'm sure I'd feel that way about turtles if I hadn't grew up with it. Tiffany bought Ghostbusters recently and it was pretty terrible. She loves it though because she grew up watching it.

Haha yeah...I do love that show. It's hard to get past production quality when you are old enough to know better. I think the ultimate point is that they were awesome for their time and for all we knew :)

I was surprised at that GI Joe Boxset because Turtles was very popular too but it's all about who markets it I suppose

[LioConvoy]

You actually think Thundercats got a better treatment?

Seriously?

Have you SEEN the special features on those monster Box Sets? Here, let me give you nightmare fuel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHBIRXAD3hE

Oh, and the one before that? Interviews by people who had NOTHING to do with the show. Just fans. And not even famous fans. I could understand if they interviewed, like, Chuck Norris if he was a Thundercats fan or something. But this is just horrible.


Oh, and Disk One of Part One of Season One? It had to be recalled on account on the second episode having NO background sound. And on TOP of that, and Pilot Episodes were the EDITED versions. Not the VHS or Broadcast versions. And the Box Art was horrible.

[GK Punk]

He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad.


I disagree, go look up the talent that worked on Masters of the Universe and you may be surprised. Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, J Michael Straczynski... And it was the most expensive animated show of it's time. They had to use stock footage to keep the cost down due to how expensive it was to produce. But all the stock shots were well animated.

The stories were aimed towards younger children, so I could understand not finding appeal in it as an adult. The only real reason I do is because of my connection to it from when I was a child. But I can still appreciate the show for what it is. If it was really horrible, not even I could watch it. (There's a lot of shows I liked as a kid I just can't get myself to watch anymore...)

[MurderOfCrows]

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats.

You are seriously not suggesting Thundercats, which had continuity, storyline, and plot that was advanced for the time in which it was put out, is not as good as turtles, which was solely for the marketing of a toy line for Playmates so Mirage could make a buck on action figure sale?

Are... you are for real? Seriously. Did you grow up on ANY of those shows?

I mean, He-Man, GI Joe, Max Steel -- yeah, I'll give you those -- especially He-Man and Max Steel -- but I'll punch you through the internet if you talk anymore of this drivel about Thundercats when you apparently have never watched an episode. They had continuity and character development that was ASTOUNDING for an early eighties cartoon. The Old Toon HAD NONE. The characters were completely static! I mean, I love my childhood, but I'm not blind to it's flaws. The Old Toon is not an animated opus by any means, guys. Thundercats outstrips it for storyline and plot by a thousand miles.

[Spike Spiegel]

Look at this

Maybe with the new movie on the horizon we can badger Lion's Gate to give us a full series set and a reason to get it. A cool box deal like that would be nice. I wouldn't mind paying for the episodes again if they presented them well. I need new copies of them anyways, mine are getting old.

I hate the fact that these DVDs of TMNT are coming out season by season as well. When I finally got the all in one Batman TAS set, all of the episodes at once, it was great! I don't see why TMNT can't get the same treatment.

[sdp]

Full series releases are VERY rare and only happen when there is a large enough fanbase. Especially with a series as big as TMNT 87.

Lionsgate isn't doing an amazing job by any means but they are getting the show out there, thats all I ask. If the show had been older then it would have gotten a better treatment like the other shows. The 80s shows now had an older fanbase of people with nostalgia, when the first TMNT DVD came out I was a Junior in High School. A lot of the fanbase was still too young to be all nostalgic about it like other 80s properties.

Oh, and almost every cartoon is a toy ad.

I disagree, go look up the talent that worked on Masters of the Universe and you may be surprised. Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, J Michael Straczynski... And it was the most expensive animated show of it's time. They had to use stock footage to keep the cost down due to how expensive it was to produce. But all the stock shots were well animated.

The stories were aimed towards younger children, so I could understand not finding appeal in it as an adult. The only real reason I do is because of my connection to it from when I was a child. But I can still appreciate the show for what it is. If it was really horrible, not even I could watch it. (There's a lot of shows I liked as a kid I just can't get myself to watch anymore...)

Bruce Timm had nothing to do with the show, and it just shows that Paul Dini can write a bad show.

I only caught a few re-runs of He-Man (mostly She-ra) as a kid, anyways I guess the fandom and seeing the boxsets made me want to check out he-man. I bought the best 10 episodes dvd and wow the show is unwatchable, it was a hassle to be able to get through the ten episodes. And those were the 10 best fan voted episodes. The show is not well animated but whats to blame is the character models were not easy to animate like most old shows. Sorry but you are definitely seeing the show through Nostalgia goggles, which nothing is wrong with that, you like what you like.

[GK Punk]

Of course I am, but when I did watch it again, I was surprised that it looked better and the stories were told better than I remembered. Keep in mind that show is from 1983 and aimed at younger children than TMNT was, so they tried to keep the stories to a lesson then move on.

Couldn't find it on Youtube, but Evilseed's death scene was one of the best animated sequences I've seen on a TV show.

[Spitfire]

Well this got way off course. The point of this was to discuss why turtles doesn't have a boxset, not compare it to other TV series.

I'll leave it at this. I may not like those series, you guys obviously do. That's awesome and I'm glad those shows got some good treatment. I was never saying any series was less worthy or anything like that. I personally just didn't feel the same way about them as you guys do.

And for the record I've seen all of Thunder Cats. I used to watch it every day when Toonami ran it. I've seen all the episodes at least twice. I loved it.

And I mentioned Max Steel because believe it or not they want to make a Max Steel movie.

[GK Punk]

I personally just didn't feel the same way about them as you guys do.

And that's cool with me. I prefer disagreeing with you over stuff like this than most of the people here. With you it's left at "We disagree, but that's cool"

[Jester]

Yeah, that's our Chris...:D

[Cipher]

The TMNT and Transformers fanbases aren't even comparable. Transformers has been pumping out a steady stream of toys and fiction (some of it very adult-oriented) since the mid-eighties, practically non-stop. It can support gigantic conventions every year, and has a loyal following of adult fans in addition to whatever generation of kids it's hooked. It's a sci-fi/toy collecting behemoth.

No way can I be surprised that Transformers gets better treatment than TMNT, which has still (for a host of reasons) failed to establish itself as a largely recognized comic series. But even then it's not top-notch. Where are my NTSC Region 1 sets of the Takara series? Oh yeah, coming never.