For Wrestling Fans...

[R-iZZy]

Okay... who's really looking forward to WrestleMania XIX??? This is REAL big... and we will see some of the best matches commense. Booker vs. Hunter... Rock vs. Stone Cold... Brock vs. Angle... Y2J vs. HBK!!! And these are only portions of what will happen!!! And Hogan vs. Vinnie Mac!!! This has to be a great PPV... and I'm definitely going to watch! Just let me know what you think of WrestleMania and how pumped you are!!! If you're not a wrestling fan... I guess you can give us all the persuasion of how it's fake... a waste of time... or you're not interested.

But seeing that I have watched wrestling as long as I have watched the Ninja Turtles, this is very big to me... like when the new TMNT cartoon series was gonna debut!!! Whattya think?

[That Matt Guy]

Isn't it Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit? Not Curt Angle...

[Reznorite420]

*sigh*...if only I was still into wrestling.

[tekcop]

Can't say I'm in the least bit interested in Wrestlemania. Maybe if they would have put Booker with Y2J....

I'm much more interested in some of the upcoming NWA TNA matches, though.

Jeff Jarret vs. Raven vs. A. J. Styles
Jerry Lynn vs. Konnan
D'Lo Brown vs Sonny Siaki

There are more. But those are some of the ones that I'm really looking forward to.

[greatpandaonita]

blah, it'll be kurt vs. brock. though it might be kurt's last match. he is considering retiring.

What I what to know is that back in the day DDT's and piledrivers were commonplace but now that they are banned, wrestlers keep breaking their necks. Why is this?

[R-iZZy]

I have no idea... and I heard that Raven and D'Lo went to NWA-TNA... did Justin Credible go there too? And actually... it WILL be Kurt and Brock... Benoit is too busy whoopin' up people with RhYno (my FAVORITE wrestler, ever since I saw him in ECW... even as a heel). I don't know where Benoit will stand at WrestleMania though.

Also, how can you catch NWA-TNA? Not like PPV... but don't they have tapings or something, because they have Road Dogg, K-Kwik (now known as someone else)... and all the coolest WWF (forget the E) superstars of the past. Isn't there a station that nationally broadcasts the federation?

[GK Punk]

Im kinda looking forward to it, I just dont want to see another Rock Vs SCSA match, jeezus they've done that enough already at WM... the Booker T Vs HHH match COULD be good, and I hope for Booker to Win. HBK Vs Y2J should be good, and Im curious to see how Angle's neck is going to hold up in the main event... One I am looking forward to is Matt Hardy Vs Rey.

And Matthew, it was Rumored that Benoit WAS going to take Angle's spot, but Angle decided to tough it out for what maybe his last match in the WWE.

[tekcop]

Also, how can you catch NWA-TNA? Not like PPV... but don't they have tapings or something,
I think you can get tapes of some of their older shows. I dunno about the new ones.

because they have Road Dogg, K-Kwik (now known as someone else)... and all the coolest WWF (forget the E) superstars of the past.
Yes, and K-Kwik is now Ron "The Truth" Killings. I haven't seen him much after he lost the belt to Jarret.


Isn't there a station that nationally broadcasts the federation?
Nope. It'd be great if they would. $10 a week is way to much.

[Peanut]

I stopped watching after Austin left. I was a hardcore fan until WWF turned to WWE and then into WCW with all these no name talentless punks in black tights. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[beaker]

I stopped watching after Austin left. I was a hardcore fan until WWF turned to WWE and then into WCW with all these no name talentless punks in black tights. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I stopped watching wrestling after a wrestler died in front of millions live on PPV, and was slept away a few minutes later to retart the matches. Sad.
How many WWF wrestlers have died in the last decade?
Anyways, the WWE has proven time and time again they dont know jack about scripting or innovative ideas since they bought WCW and ECW; ruining what would have been th ecoolest storyline ever( WWF vs WCW/ECW, and WWF vs. nWo)

However from the matches alone this WM does sound intriguing. Anyone remember WM 2000? OMG that sucked royal balls.

[greatpandaonita]

I do miss Owen but I do realize it was his choice to be up there. If he passed it up it would have been Jeff Jarrett.

I do fault the lack of progressive storylines that the WWE carries, on the other hand my main gripe is not giving the wrestlers enough time in the ring. It is almost like a carnival side show, when I want to see the three ring circus.

ECW, hell even WCW, gave a decent amount of alloted time for the wrestlers to wrestle. Now its in ring and backstage promos. Austin is right in wanting the RAW writing team removed.

[R-iZZy]

Definitely... but can't we keep the Hurricane and Rock backstage skits? Those are hilarious!!!

[Donatello02]

Where's the Rock?

[R-iZZy]

He's on RAW right now. They're saying he is "exercising his choices" but it's apparent he's coming on RAW.

[Reznorite420]

blah, it'll be kurt vs. brock. though it might be kurt's last match. he is considering retiring.The guy's only been in for how many years?

[SlayerX]

3 i think... or 4 :o hes such a big name. he is such a gifted athlete, its too bad his life rests in brock lesners hands at WM19...

[R-iZZy]

I know... it's only been like two to four years he's been here. Sure, he accomplished a lot, but he needs to stay. Plus, I'm one of the few people that don't chant "You Suck" to him... he represents America, well, in a way.

[SlayerX]

I know... it's only been like two to four years he's been here. Sure, he accomplished a lot, but he needs to stay. Plus, I'm one of the few people that don't chant "You Suck" to him... he represents America, well, in a way.

i have never shouted "You Suck!" I am Canadian, so its like everyone wanted me to :P when the Smackdown! brand came here last month, it was Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho (Y2J was here in his hometown, even tho he is part of raw :P ) and I was cheering for Angle :D I think the other ppl wanted to powerbomb me on the stairs :dead:

[Donatello02]

Pfff...I guess Kurt DOES represent America. LOL

[Reznorite420]

Pfff...I guess Kurt DOES represent America. LOLDon't start.

[SlayerX]

Pfff...I guess Kurt DOES represent America. LOLDon't start.

What does that mean Rez? Are you one of those people that realizes that it is STORYLINES, that makes a wrestler who he is, and not himself :| (if that makes sense)

[Reznorite420]

No no, I'm not talking about the wrestling subject, I'm talking about how Donatello's been going on this Anti-American rant over and over...

[Donatello02]

Yes, fine, I'm Anti-American, I'm against hyprocrisy and immorality, so sue me.

[That Matt Guy]

If you hate America, why do you live in it?

[beaker]

Man I cant believe people still watch the WWF. 1998 was really there last year. Without any compeition they are free to pretty much insult the fans every week with lame mad tv backstage skits, pudding wrestling, and other attrocities.

And if I hear "OMG! So in So is Back!!!"(after only an absense of two weeks) Im gonna scream. Does the WWE think their fans dont have any memory retention? How many times have they 'brought' back a popular wrestler in the span of a couple years?

[Donatello02]

If you hate America, why do you live in it?
1. Hate is a strong word.
2. Wow that is original.
3. Yes, I will leave America on my magical carpet. Who cares about my family, my friends, and my lack of cash to move.

I don't live in America by choice. I don't HATE America. I swear, you act like I'm directly saying I hate YOU. I dislike this goverment. I disagree with it on many levels. If it were up to me, I'd move to Canada. But I can't. Not for now atleast.

[That Matt Guy]

If you hate America, why do you live in it?
1. Hate is a strong word.
2. Wow that is original.
3. Yes, I will leave America on my magical carpet. Who cares about my family, my friends, and my lack of cash to move.

I don't live in America by choice. I don't HATE America. I swear, you act like I'm directly saying I hate YOU. I dislike this goverment. I disagree with it on many levels. If it were up to me, I'd move to Canada. But I can't. Not for now atleast.

I don't take any offence to that fact that you dislike the government, but I think "Anti-American" is a strong term. And I didn't mean "get up and leave the country" by asking why you live in the US.

[Donatello02]

Well, "Axis of Evil" I think is a strong term to call the North Koreans, when they have not taken any participation in "terrorist" acts.

I live in this supposed great nation of democrisy because I have no choice. My parents moved here (God knows why) and now I live here. Simple as that. Sure, when I get older and after I graduate college, I'm outtie, for sure. Atleast if the goverment goes unchanged that is.

[SlayerX]

i think a mod should lock this before it gets really out of hand... like it started as someone talking about how he cant wait til wrestlemania... went to kurt beign hurt... went to some anti-american thing... and its just gonna get worse... thats IMO tho

[Donatello02]

No, nothings out of hand. We're having a civil discussion, which I think is over now. No worries.

[SlayerX]

No, nothings out of hand. We're having a civil discussion, which I think is over now. No worries.

kk i just dont want to be blamed in any way :lol: i have never gotten a warning on any forum, and i hope to keep it that way :P

[R-iZZy]

THIS ABOUT WRESTLING PEOPLE... there are plenty of wrestling fans here... and the biggest event is coming up. I just wanted to know what the people (that are still interested in the WWF) are thinking. This doesn't need a mod warning or the thread being locked... I'd rather stay here.

Lemme restart this thing of my sights on WM... think Kurt could have a chance at winning at WM against Lesnar, he actually pinned him on SmackDown! The second person ever in history to pin Brock Lesnar after a half year or so experience in this business. As for the RhYno and Chris Benoit going to WM... I'm glad to see my favorite wrestler return and go to WM with such an easy ticket with Benoit... haha... stupid Team Angle. Anyway... the Rock and Stone Cold match my live up to be the match of the night. And after Booker finally stepping up a notch, he has evolved from an entertainer to an impact player. He has a chance to avenge Goldust's "new problem"... but I feel Triple might escape this one, as he always does. And with other matches to come, like Hogan and Vinnie Mac, a lot is riding on that match... you can only cross your fingers and hope that Hogan hits that Leg Drop!!!

Anyway... that's my two-cents... what do you think?

[greatpandaonita]

I'm against hyprocrisy and immorality, so sue me.

I happen to like being immoral and hypocritical.

Kurt Angle, whether he represents america or not, is still one of the best wrestlers to ever come along. If his surgery and upcoming year of rehab does not go well, he is going to retire.

[azure turtle]

Poor Kurt... Just when he was being pushed to the sky he gets a major injury. I heard that he's gonna try to work through it for Wrestlemania, and that Brock has to be extra careful when wrestling him.

I don't know if I'm gonna be able to watch Wrestlemania this year, so I'll probably end up renting the video. Each of the matches sound good, except for the Taker/Jones VS Big Show/A-Train. That just doesn't interest me at all.

Ah... And keep the arguments off the forums, please. Thanks.

[That Matt Guy]

Personally; I believe this is will be the worst Wrestlemania they have ever done. Wrestling is in real sad state, it's just the same old recycled plots with nothing new.

[SlayerX]

Personally; I believe this is will be the worst Wrestlemania they have ever done. Wrestling is in real sad state, it's just the same old recycled plots with nothing new.

ROFLMAO!!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! WORST WRESTLEMANIA EVER WAS WRESTLEMANIA 2000 (16) There is so many good matches this wrestlemania, i dont understand how you can even say that!

[azure turtle]

Plotwise, wrestling hasn't been the same since the Attitude era. I think the WWF did its best while competing against WCW. However, wrestlingwise, the WWE has got some amazing talent. I'd like to see the Matt Hardy/Rey Mysterio Jr. match.

[SlayerX]

What is all of your WM19 predictions? Here are mine:

Rock vs Stone Cold - Rock
Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon - Hulk Hogan
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Brock Lesnar (kinda obvious, no?)
Booker T vs. Triple H - Triple H
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - Chris Jericho
Undertaker / Nathan Jones vs. Big Show / A-Train - Show / A-Train
Los Guerreros vs. Team Angle vs. Chris Benoit / Rhyno - Benoit / Rhyno
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio - Rey (Rey as CW Champion would be mad :evilgrin: )

[greatpandaonita]

Rock vs Stone Cold - Rock
Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon - Hulk Hogan
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Brock Lesnar (kinda obvious, no?)
Booker T vs. Triple H - Triple H
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - Chris Jericho
Undertaker / Nathan Jones vs. Big Show / A-Train - Show / A-Train
Los Guerreros vs. Team Angle vs. Chris Benoit / Rhyno - Benoit / Rhyno
Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio - Rey (Rey as CW Champion would be mad )

Rock vs SCSA = Rock, rematch at next PPV
Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahan = Vince, via screwjob
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle = Brock, turns heel
Booker T vs. HHH = Booker T, HHH takes a month or two off to completely heal
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho = Jericho, goes after Booker T for next PPV
'taker/Jones vs Big Show/ A-Train = Big Show/ A-Train, Jones turns on Taker
Guerreros vs. Team Angle vs. Chris Benoit/ Rhyno = Benoit/ Rhyno, match of the night
Hardy vs. Rey = Rey, rematch on Smackdown

[greatpandaonita]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2003/03/14/43345.html'

Seems Angle isn't retiring. That is good.

[That Matt Guy]

ROFLMAO!!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! WORST WRESTLEMANIA EVER WAS WRESTLEMANIA 2000 (16) There is so many good matches this wrestlemania, i dont understand how you can even say that!

I have watched wrestling for years, I have seen it all. And besides, nothing can ever compare to that Undertaker vs Mankind "Hell In Cell" match they had few years ago at Summerslam (I think it was Summerslam) They don't even do cool stuff like that anymore.; and their "hardcore" matches are pure crap except for maybe the ladder matches. It's only a matter of time before the WWE throws in the old Austin vs Undertaker card again! :dead:

[R-iZZy]

Rock vs Stone Cold - Stone Cold (Rock made his presence felt already, it's time Stone Cold comes back with a bang!)

Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon - Vince McMahon (Vince always manages to get his way when it comes to PPVs)

Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Kurt Angle (Well... he did beat him on SD!)

Booker T vs. Triple H - Booker T (He's gotta avenge what Evolution has done to Goldust)

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - HBK (If Jericho can't be Triple H and HBK can... then it's almost obvious that HBK has this one)

Undertaker / Nathan Jones vs. Big Show / A-Train - Undertaker/Nathan Jones (Nathan is psycho crazy... and Undertaker, well, his name speaks for himself)

Los Guerreros vs. Team Angle vs. Chris Benoit / Rhyno - Chris Benoit/RhYno (I'm sayin' this because RhYno is my favorite wrestler... ever since I saw this bull-built figure in ECW... and Chris Benoit is so dang tough and dangerous. Two dangerous people together means trouble)

Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio - Matt Hardy v1.0 (I always liked Matt more than Jeff, because I knew he could really make a name for himself. Rey is my favorite cruiserweight, but I'ma be serious... Matt is one tough cookie to beat.)

[GK Punk]

you know what's really sad? I was talking to my brother, and he pointed out how long we've been watching wrestling... 19 years.. we started shortly after wrestlemania 1. Jeezus that makes me feel old :dead:

[Leo656]

Rock vs Stone Cold - I honestly couldn't care less. I'm BEYOND sick of BOTH of them, and I'm even more sick of them fighting each other. This one's up in the air, since Rock's leaving in a month to do another movie while Austin might need time off to rest his neck. Still, I'm gonna say Austin because he just came back and Vince has to kiss his ass as much as possible so he doesn't take his ball and go home again.
WINNER: Stone Cold

Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon - The only match I actually care about. If Vince put himself over Hogan at the biggest show of the year I'd never forgive him. I can see him doing it, because Vince is a moron, but on the other hand you have to figure that Vince has a bit more historical perspective than that. Plus the word is that Hogan and the WWE have agreed to terms on a new contract, so it looks like Hogan will be around for a few more months at least. Nostalgia plus a new contract means Hogan goes over.
WINNER: Hogan

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - This one is a gimme. It's sad, because it could have been a great, great match, but with Angle's broken neck this one is even more of a dead giveaway than HBK-Austin from Wrestlemania 14. Brock wins in a short match booked to protect Angle's neck, maybe using a bearhug or Angle's own Anklelock instead of the F5.
WINNER: Brock Lesnar

Booker T vs Triple H - I'd give anything for Booker to shoot on Trips during the match and kick him in the kneecap for those "people like you" and "nappy hair" comments. I really could have done without all the racist undertones that come with this angle. Then again, they've been hinting that Trips was a racist all the way back to the DX-Nation of Domination feud, so maybe it's not surprising. Nostalgia and logic says that the face (Booker) goes over, but Trips is Trips, so I don't see him laying down. Trips with a screwjob.
WINNER: Triple H

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - Actually, I have to change an earlier statement. This match interests me, if only because I've never seen it. Jericho is amazing, and Michaels is surprisingly capable given his physical condition, so this match oughta be good. Personally, Jericho making Shawn tap to the Walls of Jericho would be a stand up and cheer moment for me. Not to mention it would give Jericho some much-needed credibility that he hasn't had since Trips stripped him of it last year at 'Mania. Still, the fans will want to see Michaels win at the biggest show of the year, so HBK will go over clean with a Superkick.
WINNER: HBK

Undertaker/Nathan Jones vs Big Show/A-Train - This match is going to be terrible. When The Undertaker is the most athletic guy in the match, you know you're in trouble. Taker and Jones have to go over, since this match was put together only because Taker never loses at Wrestlemania. Originally it was planned to be Taker vs Jones, but Jones's "new guy" momentum might have meant Taker jobs, and that just doesn't happen. Taker and Jones win in a trainwreck of a match (no pun intended), but it might be interesting if Jones starts lactating again mid-match.
WINNERS: Undertaker and Nathan Jones

Los Guerreros vs Team Angle vs Chris Benoit and Rhyno - This match oughta be good. I definitely smell a title change, as Angle's neck surgery and impending abscence means Hass and Benjamin are just about due to get sent back down to Velocity tapings. I'd love for Rhyno and Benoit to take it, but that would require making Benoit look good, and that just doesn't happen. I think Eddy and Chavo take it and cement their nonsensical face turn.
WINNERS: Eddy and Chavo Guerrero

Matt Hardy vs Rey Misterio - This'll probably be the opening match, unless we get a Raw Tag Title match added to the card. Rey's knees are hurting again, and Matt frankly has no storyline outside the Cruiserweight belt, so the safe bet would say Matt retains. However, if it is the opener, the face should win to get the crowd hot right off the bat, necessitating a Misterio win. Personally, weighing all the factors, I'll say Rey wins, only to drop the strap back to Matt in a week or two and take a few weeks off, then come back and form a tag team with the incoming Ultimo Dragon.
WINNER: Rey Misterio

It's definitely the best Wrestlemania ever in the "big names" category, it's just too bad that injuries, age and politics might keep most of the matches from reaching their full potential. :roll:

[That Matt Guy]

I don't think wrestling will ever be good again unless they bring back La Parka.

[beaker]

Watched part of the Raw recap last night. Ok, how the HELL can any so called fan accept this garbage? Do you not see the way The Rock is now when he speaks? Yes, in the ring he is IMHO the best damn exiciting wrestler today, but the man's new gimmick doesnt work...and nothing is conving like in the ol days. The backstage skits and soap opera stuff is lame, and I wish they never started that crap in the late 90's.

Ok, yeah they got huge big name matches for WM...but they cant seem to make the buildup interesting at all. ITs like just big names for the sake of big names.

[greatpandaonita]

I don't think wrestling will ever be good again unless they bring back La Parka.


My god, I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

[Leo656]

I hate Flex, always have, so his "new gimmick" doesn't bother me. In truth, I can ONLY tolerate him when he's a heel. When he's a heel, he's kind of funny; when he's a face, he's just annoying. It's the basis of his character: he's cocky, conceited and thinks he's better than everyone. That kind of character only works with a heel; it's far too shallow. For example, Mick Foley pointed out in his second book that his team with Flex was supposed to, in the long run, give Flex a more rounded character. Flex was eventually supposed to start becoming more of a friend to Mankind; in the end, though, all Flex did was act like he was disgusted to even be around Mankind, even though they were supposed to be friends and partners, and it hurt the angle.

As for his wrestling, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Flex isn't exciting to me, he doesn't "electrify" me... he just isn't very good. His moves are sloppy and repetitive, his punches and kicks are absolutely terrible, his submission holds (especially the Crap-Shooter) are loose to the point of piss-poor, and only Scotty 2 Hotty has a worse finisher. His selling is a joke; either he no-sells completely or flops around the mat like a fish (complete with open-mouthed gasping, furthering the simile). His only advantage over the other "main eventers" is that everything he does is fast, whereas the others are hampered by age, injuries, or a combination.

As for the writing, yeah, it is bad, and that's what you can expect when the people writing wrestling shows are people that used to write for "Friends" and "Seinfeld". The shows are going to suck until the people in charge (Vince and Steph) wake up and realize that spontaneity is vital to wrestling. Ever get the feeling watching Raw and Smackdown these days that the words coming out of the wrestlers mouths seem almost forced? It's because almost every word they say is being written for them, and the result is a bunch of professional athletes trying (and failing) to be actors. It doesn't work.

At Wrestlemania 5, Hulk Hogan gave an incredible promo before his match with Randy Savage, in which he compared the match to an earth-shattering eruption that would split open the Earth and swallow the arena, etc etc etc. It was completely overblown, hyperbolic, and over the top, but never once did it feel "fake". And you know why? Because Hogan in all likelihood made that promo up in his head five minutes before the red light came on. Why? Because NOBODY in their right mind would actually write a script like that. And that's good, because scripted, poorly-delivered, poorly-acted interviews and backstage skits are a big part of what sucks about wrestling right now.

And the matches? Same problem. Everything feels too choreographed, too scripted, too "fake". A few years ago, guys would be told the finish, asked to work in a few key spots, then go to the ring and put together a match. Nowadays you have guys like Flex who actually rehearses his matches in full sometimes in the weeks before they go on. The result might be crisp and clean and fast-paced, but it just looks too homogenized. I miss when it actually looked like there was a struggle in the ring, not a poorly-acted ballet.

As for the buildup to Wrestlemania, it could be worse. The heat between HHH and Booker is a joke and an insult, but the other matches aren't too bad. Hogan-Vince is coming together nicely, HBK-Jericho has been pretty much fine since January except the pointless side feud with Test... Brock-Angle is slipshod, but that makes sense when they didn't even know week to week if the match would even happen. And the rest of the stuff is the usual filler that nobody ordering the show cares about anyway. Much as I love Benoit, the Smackdown Tag Title match isn't going to sell a single PPV.

[That Matt Guy]

I think one of the WWE's problems is their giant roster, there isn't enough time to showcase all of the talent. That was also one of WCW's major flaws at one time.

[GK Punk]

Watched part of the Raw recap last night. Ok, how the HELL can any so called fan accept this garbage? Do you not see the way The Rock is now when he speaks? Yes, in the ring he is IMHO the best damn exiciting wrestler today, but the man's new gimmick doesnt work...and nothing is conving like in the ol days. The backstage skits and soap opera stuff is lame, and I wish they never started that crap in the late 90's.

Ok, yeah they got huge big name matches for WM...but they cant seem to make the buildup interesting at all. ITs like just big names for the sake of big names.

Here's an Idea... If als you are going to do is come in her to talk trash, then go to a different thread. I really hate it when people think they are better because "I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

[greatpandaonita]

"I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

I watched wrestling in the 80s. Wrestling sucked back then as all matches involved talent enhancement matches and the big money matches were at ppv's.

It's weird, I feel that Rock is at his best mic work since his last run as a heel vs. Mankind. His ringwork is acceptable but hardly earthshattering. Let us just say that I would rather watch Rock wrestle than say A-Train or Big Show, or Undertaker. My god, is that gonna be a horrible match.

[GK Punk]

"I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

I watched wrestling in the 80s. Wrestling sucked back then as all matches involved talent enhancement matches and the big money matches were at ppv's.

It's weird, I feel that Rock is at his best mic work since his last run as a heel vs. Mankind. His ringwork is acceptable but hardly earthshattering. Let us just say that I would rather watch Rock wrestle than say A-Train or Big Show, or Undertaker. My god, is that gonna be a horrible match.

Actually, I wasnt saying wrestling was better in the 80s, im just sick of talking to wrestling fans on the internet that hate it now, because it was "better" in the 80's. Im a lifelong Wrestling fan, and I get sick of hearing these things from people who only watch it during the "wrestling is cool" days like the Mid 80s and Mid 90s

[That Matt Guy]

I don't think wrestling was that great in the 80s, in those days the WWF claimed professional wrestling was real :dead: I guess the 80s were great because of the Hulkster...

[beaker]

Here's an Idea... If als you are going to do is come in her to talk trash, then go to a different thread. I really hate it when people think they are better because "I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

Let me say this. I was one of the world's biggest, and I MEAN biggest wrestling fans from 1986 when I first saw WWF Superstars in a New York airport...til last year when I realized it was just falling apart...

I can attest nothing beat the WWF of the late 80's. That was a magical time. The worst time besides now was 93-96...dear god that just sucked.
The WWF worked best when it was spontanous, edge of your seat, 'dangerous'...the 'new' era of WWE is beyond pathetic, to the point I question how people can even watch it.

When I say how big a fan I *was*...I followed wrestling like nobodies business for over a decade. The smallest indie circuit promotions to the WWF, and NWA(WCW) I even tried to pursue a career on the indie circuit.
I went to countless house cards, tv tapings, PPV's. Ive talked with the wrestlers, and knew vastly so much about the politics and ins and outs of the business, before every mark out there learned all the secrets when the internet came around. soon every kid out there was doing backyard matches, the WCW was falling apart, and the internet ruined every damn plotline. There is virtually no move, hold, term, word, secret, or politic I dont know about the wrestling game up until a few years ago.

However, my enthusiasm for wrestling has not been all that great since 1998 or so. There is no more wrestling. When vince bought WCW, it was the end of the sport as we knew it. They bungled what could have been the coolest wrestling fan wet dream ever(WWF vs WCW/ECW), the bungled ECW in general, theybungled the nWo plot, and now they are bungling what little show they have. The WWE is PURE 100% unadulterated crap, and Im sure a lot of current and former WWF people would back that statement up. There is no creaitivty, no spontanaity, no draw, no originality, no innovation, no excitement...pretty much there is no reason to watch or be a fan anymore. Its sad, Ive devoted a remarkable amount of time to 'sports entertainment' over the years, so when I say wrestling sucks now thats not just a blind wild accusation, thats th ecold hard facts. Vinve and them just dont care anymore. Dont think for a moment they wouldnt parade Rock in a diaper and bonnet reciting showtunes...its all about the dollar, as they could give a crap about excitement.

[GK Punk]

okay, but the point to my post was Don't come in this thread, if you are going to Insult us for liking it still, as you began to do in your last post. If someone posted something about DBZ you won't see me go in there and say "people are dumb for liking that lame show"

[R-iZZy]

But I agree... the moment Vince bought WCW and ECW... that practically ruined everything!!! Do you know when the WWF was at its highest popularity? When it was competing with two other big-named feds (WCW and ECW). He had to take things to the extreme to beat his competition. And with the angles he did, they attracted us crazy fans. Personally, I think he beat WCW... but I don't think anyone would have compared to ECW!!!

When Vince bought WCW and ECW... he could've made the best war ever! He had the opportunity to make this the biggest war you could ever witness... but it ended up nothing but WWF vs. Alliance matches, no angles, a bunch of traitors, and the classic "let's settle this once and for all". It was one of the best things to see, but it wasn't THE best angle to watch.

And now that Vince killed the war, he killed all interest. What needs to happen is the rebirth of WCW and/or ECW. But Vince isn't using the talent to his advantage. Look at this... you have the most thugged-out wrestler of ECW (Taz) becoming a clown behind an announcer's booth... you have people like Justin Credible, one of the baddest ECW Heavyweight Champs ever, now just becoming a jobber for small people and rookies. You have Steiner as Triple H's play thing... Heyman has no power like he did in ECW, he's just a bald-headed band wagoner that climbs aboard the lackey express for big-time wreslters... you make Raven a rookie killer... Dudley Boyz are ALMOST doing their part, but tables are barely used when they set them up... Tommy Dreamer is just some guy with a kendo stick now... and RhYno... well, I think his level of iniquity has drastically plummeted... OH MY GOODNESS... the worst mistake EVER was what he did to nWo!!! THE WORST EVER!!! When they first started out, they were badasses as they should've, but then this recruiting thing began and almost everyone split up worse than The Beetles.

If Vince had not been so caught up in his own indulgences, he would've figured that killing his competition would kill him as well.

I'm still the biggest wrestling fan ever... for I watch whatever I can, buy the video games, wrestle backyard, and everything else... but I can only ask, where has old school wresting gone? Where have the interest gone? Where has ANYTHING gone?

[beaker]

But I agree... the moment Vince bought WCW and ECW... that practically ruined everything!!! Do you know when the WWF was at its highest popularity? When it was competing with two other big-named feds (WCW and ECW). He had to take things to the extreme to beat his competition. And with the angles he did, they attracted us crazy fans.

Exactly, so when I see these fans try to defend the current WWF ...its just sad. Its like saying "wow, I really love what Lucas is doing with the new Star Wars films!"

there is very little incetive to endure even 5 minutes of the current WWE...its beyond embarassing and I hope the company either shapes up or ships out. Man, where is the real E-C-Dub when you need it?

[R-iZZy]

Well don't get them wrong... though the storylines can't compete to the old ones, doesn't mean they're terrible now! They are good, but not great! WWF (I hate the E) is still holding strong and still grabs my attention, but sometimes you have to let the past go and accept new things. That's what I did... and I'm still loving wrestling, just like I love those darn turtles. :tgrin:

Man, where is the real E-C-Dub when you need it? Seriously!!! That was my favorite federation, even before WWF and WCW combined. The whole point of wrestling is violence... and that's what Heyman gave us back then. Too bad all ECW stars became jobbers in the WWF... which pretty much pissed me off. :flaming:

[beaker]

Well don't get them wrong... though the storylines can't compete to the old ones, doesn't mean they're terrible now! They are good, but not great! WWF (I hate the E) is still holding strong and still grabs my attention, but sometimes you have to let the past go and accept new things. That's what I did... and I'm still loving wrestling, just like I love those darn turtles.

Having watched wrestling extensively for over a decade and a half...and knowing people that used to be int he business/and or know the ins and out...believe when I say an overhwelming lifelong hardcore WWF fans are extremely displeased for the last year with the WWF(I also refuse to say "E" just baucse of some court ordered BS)

When the ECW angle was real, back in the fall of 1996...when it was unscripted and the WWF genuinely didnt want them interfering with matches, live hotline shows, etc...that was when it was 'truly edgy'

Best 3 moments ever in the least decade of WWF:

ECW invades Raw
WWF invaders WCW on live TV(d-x at nitro)
ECW interferes unnounced during a sept 1997 PPV and the subesequent RAW, both not apprived.

the 1997 ECW angle, when it became psuedo scripted, was brilliant...in 1997/early 1998(Tyson, DX invading Nitro) you iddnt know what was scripted or shoot...and that was the magic. Thats all gone now, as is ECW...the single most exciting thing to hit wrestling since the nWo. This, combined with horrible writing and comedy brings me to say I have absolutely zero respect for the WWF, find it painful to watch even 5 minutes of(since they hardly even have actual matches, or exciting high flyers) and am completely puzzled why any fan can just blindly accept this garbage.

Bottom line the WWF does not care about innovation or appealing to fans. No, they count on the fans being blind to the fact they SUCK beyond belief.
Unless you wanna see rippling pecks and horrific skits that make MadTV look like Law and Order...there is zero reason to pay any mind to the modern WWF.

[R-iZZy]

Those have got to be some of the most valid points... but you can always look forward to seeing some kind of comedy... like Goldust. If you were still watching, you'd crack up. I recognize that his stuff is fake, but to believe in it just for the hell of it is what makes me keep going. When I lose faith in the WWF... that's when I'll truly stop for good. But until then, I'm gonna be dedicated to them.

[Machias Banshee]

*sighs* Its not easy being Amy Dumas.... :ohwell: :goof:

[Leo656]

I know I'm in the minority, but I never reallly liked ECW.

They had some decent wrestlers (Shane Douglas, RVD, Raven), one or two really, really good angles (Raven-Sandman, anything with Pillman), but on the whole the actual *wrestling* (as in, stuff minus tables and chairs and flaming branding irons etc etc) was really bad. Some of it was exciting, a lot of it was genuinely brutal to watch and highly entertaining, but I personally never thought it was "the best wrestling federation", or even a really good one.

For one, outside of the guys I named and a few others, 80% of ECW's roster was a bunch of guys whose entire arsenal of moves was "DDT, Piledriver, Powerbomb, and a Bunch of Random Stuff With Weapons". In other words, half the roster was guys that in a worst case scenario they could have pulled off the street, given steel chairs and told "here, go hit someone". To me, the ability to hit someone in the head with a chair and blade your forehead doesn't make you a great wrestler, no more does throwing someone off the balcony through three tables make a great match.

Then again I'm a stickler for details in wrestling, as in I prefer in-ring action over storylines and prefer that the in-ring action be actual wrestling instead of brawling and weapons shots.

And for the record, both Vince and Paul E. have since admitted that every single ECW appearance in the WWF, including the "unwanted invasions" in 1997, were completely staged. It's also since come to light that Vince was making secret payoffs to Heyman as far back as 1997, totaling in the millions, to keep ECW alive, until Heyman's debt and lawsuits and lack of a TV deal finally forced ECW under in 2001.

[R-iZZy]

Are you kidding??? :o There were more moves in that federation than there was in the WWF. If you download the clips of ECW... full matches, you will see that there have been a variety of moves that the WWF wouldn't dare consider legal!!!

I witnessed a guy do a DDT... A Leg Drop... and a Stunner on three different men, all at once!!! Now if the WWF could do that, then they are one step closer to extreme. Tajiri's kicks were more echoing; Dreamer, Raven, Sandman, RhYno, Credible made the best matches. And you would see PPV type matches only in a TV Taping!!! The angles weren't exactly stupid, because they never tried anything stupid to pull off. It was just rivalries and blood-broiling feuds.

So despite that lack of thought, there would still be great matches without weapons. And RVD displayed his highest abilities in ECW more than he ever could've in the WWF. Vince is just holding him back, and he needs to learn how to keep these guys at their ECW status.

[That Matt Guy]

I remember seeing New Jack jump off the top of the arena onto some dude who was laying on the concrete once on an ECW PPV, and don't say Mankind being thrown off the top of cage at Hell in a Cell was more exetreme, at least he fell on a pre-cut table. :lol:

[Leo656]

It's not so much that nobody had good moves... a lot of guys did, but they were usually either A) too dangerous to be done on any mainstream scale, or B) spots for the sake of spots, moves with no psychology that would never and could never work in real life. I mean like, you know that move Edge does, that half nelson/bulldog thing? I HATE that move, because the guy getting hit with it has to do all the work themselves and it looks very very fake. A lot of ECW guys did moves like that; too much cooperation, not enough illusion of an actual struggle. It's not supposed to look like a dance move.

I remember one time in WCW when DDP (when he was a heel) damn near DRILLED Benoit with a Diamond Cutter. I swear, it looked to me like he really, really injured him the way he snapped down with so much force and so fast. He didn't, of course, but that's the key: the *illusion* of violence, the suspension of disbelief, is for me what makes for great wrestling. Which is why I don't like hardcore matches and weapon stuff; it has no drama because anyone can do it.

As for a Stunner/DDT/Legdrop combo move... there's a reason why people in the "big leagues" don't do moves like that, and it falls strictly under the "it looks too fake" category. Not to mention that there's SO much that could go wrong with a move like that. Half the WWE is out with neck injuries right now, I don't think we need more.

It's not that I think the WWE is great or anything, if I had my way WCW would still be around. They went to hell the last few years, but man, when they were good they were THE BEST. Ric Flair and Vader put on such an amazingly brutal match at Starrcade 93 without having to resort to cartoon violence or choreographed-looking spots. And I used to *hate* Ric Flair. But watching that match, with Vader just pounding the hell out of Flair and Flair just refusing to quit until finally squeaking out the win, all the drama about Flair having to retire if he lost... the whole thing exhausted me, and in a good way. It was a perfect example of everything basic and pure about wrestling coming together to paint a beautiful picture in the ring. I think I'm gonna watch that match later. :)

Dreamer, I never really liked. Something about him just seemed very generic, like without the "ECW Icon" label he'd be just another guy in the crowd, wrestling in jeans and a t-shirt.

Raven is a god. When he did a "garbage match", the psychology and the scripting and the angle all came together to make it mean something. When he tangled with Dreamer, you really believed these guys wanted to *kill* each other. That angle was the most intricate piece of storytelling ECW ever did, and the fact that they never came close to matching it tells me that Scott Levy himself booked more of it than Heyman did.

To summarize: Scott "Raven" Levy and Tommy Dreamer were childhood friends in love with the same girl, Beulah McGillicutty. Raven was a troubled child, a rich kid with a genius IQ who was badly treated by his parents (the best part was that Levy used his own real-life backstory as the impetus for his brooding Raven character). Tommy, on the other hand, was the typical popular guy who was good-looking and got all the girls, including Beulah. Raven was always nice to her, while Tommy treated her badly, and eventually the two ended their friendship over her. Years later, when Raven entered ECW, he instigated a war with Dreamer to pay him back. He introduced Beulah as his valet in a classic wrestling psychological cliche. But the twist is, given the backstory we really don't know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy if we look past the surface. Eventually Beula turned on Raven for Dreamer once again, sending Raven even further over the edge. The whole thing was so complex and brilliant that it's one of the best angles ever, not just in ECW. When it evolved into the Raven/Sandman feud, with Raven using Sandman's family as a weapon, it was just as intense. ECW was never the same after Raven left.

I have nothing good to say about Sandman. He has no moves outside of a Russian Leg Sweep, the "Heineken-rana", the DDT, and hitting people with stuff. That, and his 90-minute entrance really annoyed me. When he was in WCW and he couldn't do all the weapons stuff it exposed him and killed his cred for good.

Rhyno's gotten better with time ever since he expanded his repertoire beyone the Gore. I think he should find an alternate finisher now because of his neck, though, it'll lengthen his career.

To me, JC is Aldo. I firmly believe that if Heyman had ANYONE else at that point, we wouldn't even be talking about Credible today. He was a guy in the Ultimate Warrior vein: Not really good at anything in particular, but adequate enough that they could be protected and *made* to look good. Again, when he's in the ring now in the WWE and can't get heat by cursing for 15 minutes, Tombstone-ing people on ladders, or doing that DDT that misses by a foot (oh, wait, sorry... he doesn't do that on purpose... :wink: ), nobody cares about him. I never did, but that's just me. Paul E. should have bit the bullet and made RVD Champ instead.

A note on RVD: As I've said before, I love the guy. I do. I always have. But as I've also said before, I think he's a much better *wrestler* now than he was in ECW if given the proper stage to perform. 5-minute Raw matches are not that stage. 15-minute PPV matches against opponents that have a similar style, however, are. But he has always had a lot of problems in his style and will always have just because of the type of wrestler he is. For one: I didn't like a lot of his ECW matches because they followed a very similar, very boring pattern: High spot, pose, high spot, pose, high spot, pose... for TWENTY MINUTES. It takes 5 seconds to do a move; following that by a full one or two-minute posing routine is DEATH. I used to show my non-wrestling fans tapes to try and get them into it, and a lot of them really hated RVD. "He does some cool stuff but he keeps stopping every two seconds, it's so damn annoying." And I'd have to agree. Basically, the WWE took away exactly two things from RVD: His ability to pose between every move, and his ability to dive into the crowd (which is a no-brainer if Vince wants to avoid a lawsuit). RVD still does every single move he did in ECW, he just makes better use of his time, which to me is a good thing.

Another problem RVD has is that he can only really shine against certain types of opponents. Guys like Jeff Hardy, Eddy, he can wrestle all day every day and never have the same match twice. But against guys like Kane, Undertaker, guys that don't move as fast or sell as well, he just looks out of place. It's not that RVD is a bad wrestler, it's that his style doesn't mesh well with others. It's not his fault; not everyone is Bret or Benoit and can look good against a broomstick, after all.

As for "restoring the ECW guys' status", the only way he could do that is by only letting them wrestle on PPVs where they could curse, bleed, and hit each other with weapons without fear of advertisers complaining. And it's not gonna happen. I'm not complaining. The ones that could actually wrestle are still around and in high-profile spots, the ones that could only brawl and do chairshots are on Heat and Velocity. The biggest oversight (more like cardinal sin) was misusing Raven and getting rid of him, but I always said they would never be able to use him properly. He could have single-handedly given respect to the worthless Hardcore division if they'd let him, but he was just too much for them to handle. It's a shame. And it's not even his falt, because WCW didn't even have a Hardcore Title until the end and Raven was still always a main guy there. :(

Don't get me wrong, I watched plenty of ECW. I scheduled my life around what wrestling shows were on until WCW went out of business and I got so bored with the WWE that I lost interest entirely until Hogan came back. And I can understand why people liked ECW better than the rest, I just don't subscribe to the theory that it was "the best wrestling federation"; at best they provided a better spectacle. It's like saying that Monster Truck driving is a better sport than Nascar because more stuff gets smashed up. Personally I don't watch either, but it seemed like a reasonable comparison.

It's just my opinion, though, you're entitled to yours.

[R-iZZy]

When I'm saying ECW was the best federation... I'm not implying that it was actually THE best federation. In actuality, the meaning was that ECW grabbed my attention more than any other federation could. The way that Paul Heyman used the characters were precise. Sandman, I'll admit, was a bit boring... but RVD always entertained me, no matter how much he stalled. Yeah, I'm glad the WWF took that part of him out, but you start to miss it when you don't see it.

The thing I really like MOST about ECW was the way the fans got into it. They had to be some of the most enthusiastic fans, and it's not only the energy that the wrestlers give you, it's the energy that the fans give you as well. I could watch the most boring move, like a scoop slam, but as long as the fans holler and yell in awe and amazement, then their energy goes to me and keeps me on edge as well. Since the fans in ECW practically was into every second, from the intro to the end of the match... that affect also rubbed on me.

Watching people like RhYno, RVD, and Raven sent me the energy with or without the fans. They always brought their cards to the table and gave it their best! What Vince did to Raven was pretty messed up, and I will forever think of exiling him from this country... too bad it's only thoughts. Anyway... fans of the WWF today aren't that enthusiastic. The loudest they can get is when someone returns (and then give them mild pops when the character wrestlers) and when women come around in wet T-shirts.

So it's not only what the wrestlers give you that make it a great federation, but what the fans can tell you through their chants and rants. As long as they have energy, so do I! And since ECW kinda had the most effect on me, that's what made it MY personal favorite.

[Leo656]

ECW definitely had the most loyal fans, shown by how many even today go nuts when once a year or so Vince starts the rumors that he's restarting ECW. They're willing to ignore the fact that "ECW Lite" would be a disaster, just because it would mean ECW would still be around in spirit at least. That's loyalty.

To me it was like ECW fans embraced ECW so much because it was like their own litle secret fraternity that the rest of the wrestling fans weren't in on. It was theirs and theirs alone, and they actually felt catered to instead of ignored. Vince McMahon keeps guys like Trips and Big Show around in top spots despite fans and ratings telling him it's the wrong thing to do. In ECW, matches were booked and pushes given out depending on fan reactions. If ECW did only one thing right, that was it. It didn't insult the audience (well, outside of telling us that Aldo was actual main event material :P ). And since the fans felt important, they got more out of the product.

[R-iZZy]

And I guess that's what makes me so loyal to ECW to this day... as I continue to play those 'ol Acclaim ECW dames. I think that's what made ECW so... so... so attractive as well. The fact that the heels had conflicts with their rivals and didn't bring fans into it was what made it even better, unlike hHrl (Triple H) and other egotistical fans, except for The Rock. I love when he insults the crowd... it's humorous. I'd laugh if he insulted G'ville... :lol:

But yeah, you're right... that's what really made the fans so loyal to ECW. The sense of supremacy somewhere. As long as they were fed what they wanted, they came back for me. I was... and probably will be (if ECW came back) one of those people coming for more. I wonder what made it so hidden though. How could a federation like that have such little exposure?

[Leo656]

Lack of money, for one. It costs money to advertise, money to get the product into bigger arenas, etc. Also, the simple fact was always that back in the day their product scared even the cable stations for being so violent and edgy. I remember between 1994 and 1997 ECW was taken off MSG network around here like twice, and Viewer's Choice didn't even carry their PPVs for a couple years, so I missed all the early ones. As the product got bigger and gained more exposure, they had to tone things down out of necessity. That's why on the TNN show you never had the entire arena throwing chairs into the ring or chanting "She's A Crack Whore!" at the women anymore. So it's a tradeoff; to become more successful, ECW had to compromise and give up some of the things that made it unique in the first place. Some of the horrible garbage "feds" like XPW or CZW scream long and loud about never compromising their product, and that's also why they will never run a show in front of more than 1,000 people. And thank goodness for that.

You... actually play the Acclaim ECW games? You're a braver man than I...

[beaker]

Here's the deal...ready?

Paul Heyman is probably 90% responsible for modern wrestling. Vince may never publicly credit Heyman, but believe me when I say every freaking conceivable attribute to post 'Attitude' era WWF(and the last years of WCW) is all ripped off of the ECW. From the newer WWF logo, emphasis a couple years ago on hardcore matches, hardcore wrestlers, attitude...thats all ECW.

In fact, by 1999 ECW was locked into the number 3 big boy position...they had action figures, video games, lots of media coverage, etc. However, between the fact Paul E was unwilling to compromise(they couldnt play arenas as they insisted they wouldnt tone down the language, violence, or sexual inuendo) they failed to attract a larger audience.

But I'll submit to you this...surpassing even the brilliant nWo concept, ECW in the mid to late 90's was one of the most exciting things around.
I was a fan from 96 til they disbanded.

For those who still watch the WWF...do you remember those Monday nights when you were truly filled with adrenaline, butterflies, and frantic phone calls to friends of 'dude, you so gotta turn on USA network!" ?

Remember when ECW "invaded" Raw in early 97...when Stone Cold and Tyson almost got into it, when Stone Cold came out in a Zambonee and closes line McMahon, when the nWo first appeared on WCW, when every week idiots from the audience would jump into the ring on Nitro,
when Nitro used to take place at non arena exotic locals(the mall, beach, Disnyworld, etc), when WWF had matches at night clubs, train stations, etc?

Yeah, the days of the 'anything can happen', dangerous edgy innovation, crap your pants excitement, pseudo unscripted moments...those are all gone. Compound to that the heavy, and I mean HEAVY emphasis on backstage soap opera mad tv crap and campy acting, bad mic spots, less and less ring action etc...I increasingly find it harder and harder to even watch a few minutes of the WWF. It is my belief that people will still watch no matter how bad it gets.

Watching people like RhYno, RVD, and Raven sent me the energy with or without the fans. They always brought their cards to the table and gave it their best! What Vince did to Raven was pretty messed up, and I will forever think of exiling him from this country... too bad it's only thoughts. Anyway... fans of the WWF today aren't that enthusiastic.

and there you go. You just cant beat the sheer enthusiasm of ECW fan.s I have the old tapes, the PPV's...I remember. There is nothing to be excited about the WWF, even if you were sitting in the front row of a RAW card.
Its IMHO these days, pure unadulterated garbage. Around the time of the
whole Undertaker kidnaps Stephanie, and later the Mark Henry old lady birth thing...thats when I lost all possible respect.

I think everyone should see Hitman Hart Wrestling with Shadows and Beyond the Mat...two excellent eye opening documentaries.

[R-iZZy]

Here's the deal...ready?

Paul Heyman is probably 90% responsible for modern wrestling. Vince may never publicly credit Heyman, but believe me when I say every freaking conceivable attribute to post 'Attitude' era WWF(and the last years of WCW) is all ripped off of the ECW. From the newer WWF logo, emphasis a couple years ago on hardcore matches, hardcore wrestlers, attitude...thats all ECW.

In fact, by 1999 ECW was locked into the number 3 big boy position...they had action figures, video games, lots of media coverage, etc. However, between the fact Paul E was unwilling to compromise(they couldnt play arenas as they insisted they wouldnt tone down the language, violence, or sexual inuendo) they failed to attract a larger audience.

But I'll submit to you this...surpassing even the brilliant nWo concept, ECW in the mid to late 90's was one of the most exciting things around.
I was a fan from 96 til they disbanded.

For those who still watch the WWF...do you remember those Monday nights when you were truly filled with adrenaline, butterflies, and frantic phone calls to friends of 'dude, you so gotta turn on USA network!" ?

Remember when ECW "invaded" Raw in early 97...when Stone Cold and Tyson almost got into it, when Stone Cold came out in a Zambonee and closes line McMahon, when the nWo first appeared on WCW, when every week idiots from the audience would jump into the ring on Nitro,
when Nitro used to take place at non arena exotic locals(the mall, beach, Disnyworld, etc), when WWF had matches at night clubs, train stations, etc?

Yeah, the days of the 'anything can happen', dangerous edgy innovation, crap your pants excitement, pseudo unscripted moments...those are all gone. Compound to that the heavy, and I mean HEAVY emphasis on backstage soap opera mad tv crap and campy acting, bad mic spots, less and less ring action etc...I increasingly find it harder and harder to even watch a few minutes of the WWF. It is my belief that people will still watch no matter how bad it gets.

Watching people like RhYno, RVD, and Raven sent me the energy with or without the fans. They always brought their cards to the table and gave it their best! What Vince did to Raven was pretty messed up, and I will forever think of exiling him from this country... too bad it's only thoughts. Anyway... fans of the WWF today aren't that enthusiastic.

and there you go. You just cant beat the sheer enthusiasm of ECW fan.s I have the old tapes, the PPV's...I remember. There is nothing to be excited about the WWF, even if you were sitting in the front row of a RAW card.
Its IMHO these days, pure unadulterated garbage. Around the time of the
whole Undertaker kidnaps Stephanie, and later the Mark Henry old lady birth thing...thats when I lost all possible respect.

I think everyone should see Hitman Hart Wrestling with Shadows and Beyond the Mat...two excellent eye opening documentaries.
Ah... every single word you speak are my feelings. ECW was the one that gave WWF this "attitude"... WCW and WWF the hardcore matches, the spontaneous events just occurring out of nowhere!

ECW needs its credit where credit is due... they revolutionized wrestling and gave every other federation something to copy off of. ECW has done so much, and for it to become disbanded is just a mere tragedy. ECW was what made the era of attitude the best.

[Leo656]

So now that Wrestlemania's over, what'd everyone think?

I liked it. It was way better than last year. The only two matches I thought sucked were Taker/Nathan Jones vs Big Show/A-Train and HHH vs Booker.

[heretic888]

oh man, that Limp Bizkit performance kicked so much ass. :D

[GK Punk]

I really enjoyed it, the limpbizkit performance was great, (both of them) And almost all of the matches were fun to watch... Still upset Booker T didn't win the WCW er... RAW title but, it must be coming soon, atleast it better be

[R-iZZy]

I AM PISSED THAT BOOKER DIDN'T WIN!!! Do you know how much attention they gave him? They made it seem like this would be where he would finally make it to the top... but I guess not! Triple always has to come out on top.

And watching Rock win was okay... I've become a bigger Rock fan that I ever have before. He's WAY more entertaining. And WrestleMania was actually a great event. I didn't hate the Taker match, because it meant that he is STILL undefeated in WrestleMania... what is that? 11-0 or 12-0???

WrestleMania was a great event overall though. I enjoyed it...

[GK Punk]

I AM PISSED THAT BOOKER DIDN'T WIN!!! Do you know how much attention they gave him? They made it seem like this would be where he would finally make it to the top... but I guess not! Triple always has to come out on top.

And watching Rock win was okay... I've become a bigger Rock fan that I ever have before. He's WAY more entertaining. And WrestleMania was actually a great event. I didn't hate the Taker match, because it meant that he is STILL undefeated in WrestleMania... what is that? 11-0 or 12-0???

WrestleMania was a great event overall though. I enjoyed it...

This was his 11th win, I wish 'Taker was in a better match preferebly a singles match, that's when I like him best. I want to see that strap on him one more time.

As for Booker T.. everyone here at my house let out a gigantic "DAMMIT!" when he lost... I mean that Belt is HIS. During the last what was it, 2 years of WCW he OWNED that belt. Im hoping Jeff Jarret and Vinnie Mac can burry the hatch someday, I want to see another JJ Booker T World title match... god I miss WCW

[R-iZZy]

I know what you're saying. I let out a sigh of disappointment, because I live under my mom's roof, so I can't let out my TRUE feelings. :evilgrin:

As for the WCW part, I miss it too. I miss every single competing fed... it was wahat kept the WWF at its highest point. I really miss ECW though. I wish I could see them just one more time. And yes, Double J was a bad mamma jamma!!! :lol: Too bad they had him lose to Chyna in a Kitchen Match or something like that. But he's actually doing great in TNA... so don't worry about him. He's doing just fine...

[That Matt Guy]

I don't think I will ever watch WWE again, I turned it on the other day and saw Bill Goldberg :sick: He even stood in the sparks when he came out, the only thing he was missing were the 15 cops he always walked out with.

[GK Punk]

I don't think I will ever watch WWE again, I turned it on the other day and saw Bill Goldberg :sick: He even stood in the sparks when he came out, the only thing he was missing were the 15 cops he always walked out with.

You forgot to mention that it totally kicked ass when goldberg came out :D

[That Matt Guy]

I don't think I will ever watch WWE again, I turned it on the other day and saw Bill Goldberg :sick: He even stood in the sparks when he came out, the only thing he was missing were the 15 cops he always walked out with.

You forgot to mention that it totally kicked ass when goldberg came out :D

It would have kicked more ass if the Rock had hit Goldberg in the face with a baseball bat or steel chair.

[R-iZZy]

NAAAAAAH... that wouldn't work for Goldberg's debut to the WWF.

[GK Punk]

NAAAAAAH... that wouldn't work for Goldberg's debut to the WWF.

I Completley marked when his music hit, I can't wait to see him slaughter the rock

[Leo656]

I concur. I used to really hate Goldberg for like the first year he was around, but little by little he impressed me. I am totally gonna stand up and cheer when he hits the Jackhammer on Rock at Backlash.

[GK Punk]

I concur. I used to really hate Goldberg for like the first year he was around, but little by little he impressed me. I am totally gonna stand up and cheer when he hits the Jackhammer on Rock at Backlash.

That's going to be a great match, some people say goldberg can only do 3 moves, thats BS, go watch some of his earlier, then later WCW matches, the guy knows tons of submission holds, that's all WCW wanted him to do for the winning streak was squashes.

Another one I can't wait for is HHH vs Goldberg... it'll happen eventually.

[R-iZZy]

Oh yes... and Goldberg's awesome strength... I downloaded this video clip of nothing but finishers and great highlight moments of ECW, WCW, WWF, and UFC. In the clip, Goldberg actually Jackhammered Paul Wight (Big Show... duh).

Of course, his spear has nothing on RhYno's!!! YEAH (you can tell I'm a RhYno fanatic)!!!

Oh... and G... G... Goldust... RAR... against Trip... Trip... Triple H is going to be one I can't wait to see. I just wish Goldust would quit freaking out in the middle of matches.

[That Matt Guy]

I don't see why Goldberg is so great, I mean the guy became famous for "beating" wrestlers like Barry Darsow and Lodi; who were on WCW's C list of stars. They made his character unstoppable, and then they brought in Scott Hall with a cattle prod which was "the only thing that can stop Goldberg!" :lol:

[Leo656]

Well, that kind of booking was something that hadn't been done in a while. It'd been a couple years since there was a true "dominant" guy in wrestling, one that after a while you started thinking "NOBODY can beat THIS guy!" I think the last one before Goldberg was Big Show/Giant, and after Hogan beat Giant his aura went away. I always liked that kinda thing, it creates drama. It's true he started out wrestling guys like Lodi and Chris Adams, but by the time he won the belt he'd wrestled and beaten everyone in the company, so I really can't complain with how he was booked until after Russo got a hold of him. Basically, Goldberg was booked the way Ken Shamrock was supposed to have been... again, until Russo got a hold of him.

Goldberg didn't impress me at first, over time I grew to respect him. It's true he doesn't have a moveset as vast as someone like Benoit, but neither does Flex and the people flock to him like sheep. A lot of it's charisma and how you carry yourself, and Goldberg always had an aura.

Though selfishly, I'm secretly half-wishing for him to nail Flex with the "Bret-Killer" superkick at Backlash. Is that wrong?