Do you think Volume 4 will get a canon ending?

[CyberCubed]

Volume 4 was Peter Laird's last on-going TMNT project. He still has the rights to release 18 comics a year (read: 1 or 2), but for the most part we have no idea when or if he'll actually get another issue out.

Do you think Volume 4 will get a canon ending from Peter Laird himself someday?

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

I put "other" because I feel there is simply no way to know.

[Billbeaux]

I'll pull the lever for "other/unknown" as well.

That said, didn't Laird announce that #31 was done--or almost done--quite some time ago? I remember seeing the cover art...one of the Turtles (presumably Don, but possibly Leo in the Battle Nexus) fighting with a Robin Hood style (buck-and-a) quarterstaff.

Also, hasn't Laird said before that he planned to--or at the very least could--wrap up v4 in six more issues?

[Oculus Orbus]

Other. As far as we know, not even Peter Laird himself knows if Volume 4 is ever going to have an end, wich is really sad.

I understand his reasons, and of course he has every right in the world to do whatever he wants with his creation, but I can't help thinking that, after 25 years supporting the characters, the fans deserve at least an official end for the Mirage continuity.

[Cipher]

The most important part of any story is its ending. When you think about the fact that the Turtles haven't gotten any kind of proper ending since "City at War" in 1993, that's ... kind of appalling.

[CyberCubed]

The poll results are so negative so far.

One reason I think Vol. 4 will be wrapped up is because its Peter Laird's story. Its his own thing.

This is not like Archie's, "Forever War," or the Image series ending without proper closure, this is PL's own creation. He no longer has the weight of the entire franchise on his back, he doesn't have to bother overlooking what they do with the new Nick cartoon, the new live-action movie, or any of the toys and videogames. Likewise Tales is over too, so he doesn't have to approve scripts for that either.

He deserves his relaxation time, but I'm sure at some point he'll want to re-visit the Turtles and give it the ending he imagined. After all, why would he bother to make sure he could still release TMNT comics after the buyout if he wanted to relinquish his control over the characters completely?

[Ash]

I have faith. It may not happen for a couple of years but I don't believe Laird would retain those rights if he didn't intend to take advantage of them.

[Powder]

I voted no but thats because I'm thinking semi-short term. I don't think we'll see it until around the time the new show drops, if that...

[DK2]

Its sad that two issues are in the can in the art dept. Yet why can't these two issues be done in the post producttion dept and be released for now?

[Vivi]

I think ten years down the track it will get some kind of ending, probably not a very definitive one, but an ending. Hopefully some time away from the TMNT will reignite some of Laird's passion for the project. This has to be one of my favorite volumes, so it will be a long, boring wait.

Maybe some crazed fangirls/boys can prod Laird into action, I believe that's what he credits as one of the reasons for starting up volume 4 in the first place.

[CyberCubed]

The ironic thing is Volume 4 began almost a decade ago in December 2001, that's nearly a lifetime ago for some people.

Pete will likely be 60 by the time it ends, if it does.

[Lordmylar06]

I voted "other". I think we'll see an ending, but it won't be a closure sort of a deal. I do think even if the last page says "Thanks for reading." I'll still want more.

[Kendamu]

Maybe if he ever gets over his Turtle burnout he might finish it.

[CyberCubed]

Maybe if he ever gets over his Turtle burnout he might finish it.

It is his own pet project, so I suppose he'll go back to it after a few years.

The problem is PL is pushing on in the years now, he's now 56, a couple years from now he'll be 60. If he complains about a lack of energy now, or the lack of motivation to do a comic, it worries me that he'll have even less as he gets older.

[skaldicpoet9]

I really hope that he does return to finish it up at some point. Mostly because I want new Turtle comics though and just got back into reading/buying them again :P

But the man should be given a break for as long as he needs it, I don't doubt he deserves it.

[blockhead]

So I had been meaning to read Vol 4 for a while. I was on a plane ride the other day and read the first 29 issues. Then I came home and checked the Technodrome and realized the issues only went up to 31! I found 31 on the internet but was unable to locate a copy or scan of number 30. Obviously what I realized was that the story never reached a conclsioin. I for one really enjoyed the story in Volume 4 and was starting to get really invested in it. I would really like to see a conclusion to it, but I'm starting to worry that we will never see one. What do you guys think? Has Laird made any announcements about what he's going to do with it? It seems cruel to come up with this great story and release most of it (from what I understand) and then leave the last 4 or so issues unpublished. I really hope we get to see the end of this thing eventually.

[Powder]

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=740085

[blockhead]

Damn, I guess I should have looked first. Somehow I managed to miss that while browsing the forums before. Mods please just delete this thread/merge my post into that thread whatever. Sorry about that.

[azrael]

Did anyone else read Batman Hidden treasures? I think If pete wants to knock it out in a fast way he could do it by telling a story instead of comic form. If you read or seen then you will understand.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/62196/1441553-example_super.jpg

Thats the right side of the book. the left side is set up the same way about 2 paragraphs and 1 picture. He could get his wife to help since she is a writter and all that.
________
California medical marijuana dispensary (http://california.dispensaries.org/)

[blockhead]

If he just wrote it as text that would be dissapointing but better than nothing. I really hope he just goes ahead and gets off his ass and finishes it. he used to write two stories a month I don't see why he can't go ahead and finish off the last 4 or 5 in a year to give us an ending. after all the money we fans have made for him, he owes us an ending to the mirage universe! maybe he just figures he's already loaded and since vol 4 wasn't financially successful he doesn't give a damn about it. also that's ridic that he was charging $10 a piece for vol 30, that's highway robbery. he is taking advantage of the fact that fans desperately want a conclusion to the story and are willing to pay out the nose if it's the only way. i've lost a lot of respect for him in the past few years. especially after selling to viacom

[azrael]

If he just wrote it as text that would be dissapointing but better than nothing. I really hope he just goes ahead and gets off his ass and finishes it. he used to write two stories a month I don't see why he can't go ahead and finish off the last 4 or 5 in a year to give us an ending. after all the money we fans have made for him, he owes us an ending to the mirage universe! maybe he just figures he's already loaded and since vol 4 wasn't financially successful he doesn't give a damn about it. also that's ridic that he was charging $10 a piece for vol 30, that's highway robbery. he is taking advantage of the fact that fans desperately want a conclusion to the story and are willing to pay out the nose if it's the only way. i've lost a lot of respect for him in the past few years. especially after selling to viacom


I agree with some of that, exept for the viacom thing I hate the timing that took place but love the fact that TMNT will get new life hopefully in a good direction. I would love for there to be a "mature" cartoon on MTV than on nick but hey beggers cant be choosers. I wouldnt except a book like ending like I said it would basically be like the april origin issue except 1 pic instead, He could do it by himself, lawson, dooney any of them could have the pics done within a month.
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[gobo]

I'm guessing that, if it ever sees a conclusion, it will be on the heels of some NickTMNT project. That's the way to get dormant fans to pay attention again; have their kids nag them about it.

[blockhead]

it's def insulting how much he is charging for new issuese and the ridiculously slow or stopped pace it is moving at.

[Galactus]

it's def insulting how much he is charging for new issuese and the ridiculously slow or stopped pace it is moving at.

He's not really charging anything. He was giving it away for free.

All of vol. 4 was on wowio before they started charging and new issues were put on ninjaturtles.com to read. He put what would have been the latest issue on his blog.

Obviously the cost to buy a physical copy was to cover the cost of making it and if you bought it at the time you got a sketch from Laird himself or some other Mirage artists of your choosing.

He's just burned out on turtles in general and now that he's experiencing the benefits of life not being in charge of it all he's honest that he may never get back to it. Which is great for him yet from a fan perspective kinda bitter sweet as before the sale he stated that doing the sketches got him somewhat excited about it again and he started working on the next issue right away (suprising Lawson).

Then again quite a lot of fans don't care for vol.4 and while Laird for the most part may not care it has to be somewhat disheartening that all he heard for years was that his comic and everything he was doing with the franchise sucked. That being said I don't think vol. 4 was as widely dislikes as it seems if you look at it objectively.

[CyberCubed]

Then again quite a lot of fans don't care for vol.4 and while Laird for the most part may not care it has to be somewhat disheartening that all he heard for years was that his comic and everything he was doing with the franchise sucked. That being said I don't think vol. 4 was as widely dislikes as it seems if you look at it objectively.

Vol. 4 isn't really hated, its just the problem of the release schedule. Most of what people complain about is:

1) The pacing, since only one isssue came out every 2 months and now every year, which won't matter if the series ever ends. Since you could read all of it in one or two sittings.

2) Lawson's art, but that has nothing to do with PL himself.


To think PL would get depressed over what fans criticize about his book is ridiculous, the guy flat out tells you off if you make a stupid comment to him. He's definitely not sitting there wondering if fans would read it or not.

[Galactus]

Vol. 4 isn't really hated, its just the problem of the release schedule. Most of what people complain about is:

1) The pacing, since only one isssue came out every 2 months and now every year, which won't matter if the series ever ends. Since you could read all of it in one or two sittings.

For a while there a lot of people expressed dislike over quite a lot of things in vol. 4. A percieved lack of action, the Utroms first contact, the changes to the turtles and so on and so on.

Some disliked it nearly right away but it others jumped on it later too. Infact searching for something specific I found a discussion on a vol. 4 which was positive even with users which have become very vocal vol. 4 haters and this wasn't an early issue were we didn't where the story was heading but one with Gamera-Raph. It's difficult to pinpoint were popular opinion tipped for it but it did seem for a while a lot disliked it.

Of course it's seems to have balanced out now, at least that's how I percieve it and hey it outsold Tales vol. 2 so obviously it doing something right at least in comparison.

2) Lawson's art, but that has nothing to do with PL himself.

Peter would probably take that as a knock too. Afterall while he obviously is good friends with Jim Lawson he obviously didn't hire him as an artist just fot that, he legitimately appreciates his work. He's staunchly defended Jim's work in the past.

To think PL would get depressed over what fans criticize about his book is ridiculous, the guy flat out tells you off if you make a stupid comment to him. He's definitely not sitting there wondering if fans would read it or not.

I'm not suggesting he was depressed or even all upset about it merely that he may have felt at some point that there's not much of an audience for it. Obviously he knows some fans like(d) it but based on the wording on his blog I'd argue he doesn't think they are that numerous.

[shuriken]

I think once Laird is at peace with his creation and comfortable enough to go back to it, he'll finish it.

[CyberCubed]

I think once Laird is at peace with his creation and comfortable enough to go back to it, he'll finish it.

I can see him definitely getting nostalgic to do some more Turtle work after he's had enough time away from it.

Let him relax and enjoy life in the meantime, and whenever he's ready, I do think he'll work on a Vol. 4 conclusion someday.

[azrael]

Anyone think that maybe he could finish it up with 1/2 a page of art (a key scene) then the other half the story element. He could finish 2 characters per book and be done with it... You think that if he really wanted to be done with them he would finish it up and be done. I think he likes to make us fans wait to build anticipation.

[Bjarni]

I think when Laird has taken the time off he needs, he will give Volume 4 it's proper send off.

[k_lala]

How would you guys like the series to end? How would you do it and end it?

[Bjarni]

How would you guys like the series to end? How would you do it and end it?
Just tie up all the stories.
I don't really care how.

Michelangelo and the Triceratons infiltrate the planet and take down their dreadful regime (maybe with the help of the Utroms?) and Michelangelo finds out that the babies aren't his.
The Utroms fix Donatello who investigates Shadow's assassin, learning of the alien threat. April and Casey get their shell together and realize they'll never have another child and try to focus on the one that they have instead of forcing her to live alone in a cabin. Raphael learns how to Hulk-out but it takes mediation, when he's unfocused he morphs back (like they wanted for the original TMNT 4).
Leonardo becomes Battle Nexus Champion. Meets Usagi again. Meets the other world Splinter who tells him the secret of the Aztecs and why they want to destroy The Foot (?). They join forces with Hamato Saki and return to Earth to stop the menace from killing Karai, Cha Ocho and the left of their forces.

?????

The Alien and Aztec Soldiers are defeated. Leonardo fills the steps of his master's master and becomes the leader of the remaining Foot and teaches them like he was taught. Instead of Cha Ocho, his second in command is Hatsumi Gosei and Raphael. The brothers are re-united, because of the alien presence they don't have to hide anymore. Donatello gets a degree in SCIENCE and is one of the Utrom's biggest technical adviser on Earth while Michelangelo continues his job as a writer.

PROFIT.

At this point I would not want the series to continue. I'd rather have a trade paperback come out done by Laird and Lawson which follows the events from 4.

[CyberCubed]

I made this thread in 2009....it's now 2025 and we're STILL waiting. Goddamn.

[frank_one]

In the meantime we got an official ending for volume 3 so everything is possible.

[Andrew NDB]

I made this thread in 2009....it's now 2025 and we're STILL waiting. Goddamn.

I held out a lot of hope that we'd see something by now. But like I said... it's been a lot of years since 2009 and there's been no sign of anything. Probably that's that.

Or maybe it'll be like when J.D. Salinger died and there was all these books it ended up he completed but left unpublished (but will be, now).

[ToTheNines]

Or maybe it'll be like when J.D. Salinger died and there was all these books it ended up he completed but left unpublished (but will be, now).

That’s a comforting thought, except Mirage’s publishing rights die with Peter. But I guess IDW or whoever could put them out if the right person was handling it.

Man… gonna be some rough days when Peter and eventually Kevin pass on. To many, many good years for them both!

[Mayhem]

Jim has always said he is up for finishing the story and the plot lines are there, just no script or thumbnails. So… maybe, if we are lucky.

[Coola Yagami]

Jim has always said he is up for finishing the story and the plot lines are there, just no script or thumbnails. So… maybe, if we are lucky.

At this point, it's pretty much up to Andrew. I guess better a backed fan ending with actual Mirage people like Lawson involved than.... no ending at all.

[ToTheNines]

At this point, it's pretty much up to Andrew. I guess better a backed fan ending with actual Mirage people like Lawson involved than.... no ending at all.

If anything, that might be the better option for us anyways. I mean, look at Andrew and Arsiney’s two Image books versus Urban Legends #24-26…

[Zog The Magnificent]

If anything, that might be the better option for us anyways. I mean, look at Andrew and Arsiney’s two Image books versus Urban Legends #24-26…

Amen. I think Urban Legends is fine, and it's more indicative of what it would have been if it had come out back in the 90s, but come on... the "fan" conclusion is clearly better.

[Andrew NDB]

Jim has always said he is up for finishing the story and the plot lines are there, just no script or thumbnails. So… maybe, if we are lucky.

At this point, it's pretty much up to Andrew. I guess better a backed fan ending with actual Mirage people like Lawson involved than.... no ending at all.

Lawson has made it clear he won't have any part of a Vol. 4 conclusion without Laird. So that's that. There is, of course, the chance that he changes his mind.

[CyberCubed]

I don't understand why Peter Laird didn't just give Jim Lawson the story beats or structure how he wanted the last few issues to play out, and then let Jim just do the scripting and planning everything out since he draws the whole comic anyway. PL already said back in 2014 (or even before that?) when the last issue came out that he already knew how he wanted Vol. 4 to end.

So why couldn't he just give Jim a rough outline of how he wanted his current stories to end and where all the main characters end up, and just let Jim do the plotting/scripting? The whole comic felt like it was coming to an end anyway, Raph and Don's stories were pretty much over and we just had Leo in the Battle Nexus with Splinter and whatever was going to happen with Michelangelo and Regenta. That was basically it anyway.

[Coola Yagami]

I don't understand why Peter Laird didn't just give Jim Lawson the story beats or structure how he wanted the last few issues to play out, and then let Jim just do the scripting and planning everything out since he draws the whole comic anyway. PL already said back in 2014 (or even before that?) when the last issue came out that he already knew how he wanted Vol. 4 to end.

So why couldn't he just give Jim a rough outline of how he wanted his current stories to end and where all the main characters end up, and just let Jim do the plotting/scripting? The whole comic felt like it was coming to an end anyway, Raph and Don's stories were pretty much over and we just had Leo in the Battle Nexus with Splinter and whatever was going to happen with Michelangelo and Regenta. That was basically it anyway.

Might be a pride thing, like if Volume 4 will end, Laird must be the one to do it. Whenever and if that'll happen.

[ToTheNines]

Pure speculation here, but maybe he doesn’t want it to end. He might just prefer the idea of leaving everything a mystery.

Especially considering how big of a deal it’s going to be at this point. There will be CBR and IGN headlines “PETER LAIRD RETURNS TO MIRAGE UNIVERSE!!!” but he knows that modern audiences wouldn’t really dig volume 4, and that it was never meant to be some momentous, epic conclusion anyway.

[DrSpengler]

My coping mechanism that gets me through the night on Volume 4 remaining incomplete is knowing that the Mirage TMNT live to be 100+ years old. Volume 4 features them in their 30s. So there will always be 70+ years of untold and unexplored Mirage TMNT adventures we'll never see. Likewise, all of the incomplete Tales of the TMNT storylines or unrevealed "As yet Untold Tale of the TMNT" editor's notes we never got further elaboration on.

With these guys living for over a century, we're just not going to see everything that they've done. Unresolved cliffhangers do suck, though.

[ToTheNines]

My coping mechanism that gets me through the night on Volume 4 remaining incomplete is knowing that the Mirage TMNT live to be 100+ years old. Volume 4 features them in their 30s. So there will always be 70+ years of untold and unexplored Mirage TMNT adventures we'll never see. Likewise, all of the incomplete Tales of the TMNT storylines or unrevealed "As yet Untold Tale of the TMNT" editor's notes we never got further elaboration on.

With these guys living for over a century, we're just not going to see everything that they've done. Unresolved cliffhangers do suck, though.

Yeah that’s fun to think about. As a youngster, when vol. 4 dropped, it felt like the characters were old as hell. But they were only like 29 or 30. Not that I don’t feel old at times, but at 33 I know I have a lot of life to live (hopefully).

[member_removed]

I don't understand why Peter Laird didn't just give Jim Lawson the story beats or structure how he wanted the last few issues to play out, and then let Jim just do the scripting and planning everything out since he draws the whole comic anyway. PL already said back in 2014 (or even before that?) when the last issue came out that he already knew how he wanted Vol. 4 to end.

So why couldn't he just give Jim a rough outline of how he wanted his current stories to end and where all the main characters end up, and just let Jim do the plotting/scripting? The whole comic felt like it was coming to an end anyway, Raph and Don's stories were pretty much over and we just had Leo in the Battle Nexus with Splinter and whatever was going to happen with Michelangelo and Regenta. That was basically it anyway.

IIRC, the deal with Nickelodeon for Mirage to continue publishing TMNT comics (up to 18 issues per year), was that PL had to be significantly involved with the creative process.

He can't just give a story brief or rough draft to anyone and say go make issue 33.

[ToTheNines]

I don’t know that that’s true. I’m pretty sure Mirage Studios can publish whatever they want within those 18 issues. The main hook with Peter is that the deal is voided upon his death. So anything posthumous would have to be Jim self-publishing under the radar or be through IDW.

[Andrew NDB]

I don’t know that that’s true. I’m pretty sure Mirage Studios can publish whatever they want within those 18 issues. The main hook with Peter is that the deal is voided upon his death. So anything posthumous would have to be Jim self-publishing under the radar or be through IDW.

No, Peter has to have a big part in any issues that come out through Mirage under that clause. He was pretty clear in his Q&As about it. The idea is that it was one thing if he was passion projecting out more TMNT issues... but Nickelodeon wouldn't like it if he was just running a printing press for other creators. But now... what does that mean? Him being an editor isn't enough, so is him doing a cover and that's all for an issue good enough? He didn't seem sure.

[ToTheNines]

Gotcha. Seems weird and arbitrary, but there’s probably more legal-ese to it than that. Who decides his level of involvement is sufficient?

[member_removed]

Gotcha. Seems weird and arbitrary, but there’s probably more legal-ese to it than that. Who decides his level of involvement is sufficient?

That's been the question since 2009.

I think he at minimum he needs to write the script. Wasn't that his involvement with issues 29-32?

It does seem strange, when he agreed on the deal for 18 issues it would appear that would continue with the pattern of 6 vol 4's and 12 Tales Vol 2.

But he wasn't that heavily involved with Tales Vol 2 was he? Maybe just a consulting role?

[ToTheNines]

It does seem strange, when he agreed on the deal for 18 issues it would appear that would continue with the pattern of 6 vol 4's and 12 Tales Vol 2.

But he wasn't that heavily involved with Tales Vol 2 was he? Maybe just a consulting role?

Right, continuing Tales was the only thing that made the 18 issues make sense.

I seem to remember Murphy saying he suspected Peter quit even reading scripts at some point in 2007. I don’t believe he was ever credited as anything either, unless he did the cover or front piece. I’m traveling right now and can’t check.

[thingy]

I seem to remember Murphy saying he suspected Peter quit even reading scripts at some point in 2007.
Well, Peter himself has said that, saying that there are things he wouldn't have approved that slipped through the cracks and mentioning in a late Q&A that there were stories that at that time he still hadn't read.

It seems he started paying attention again at some point, as Tristain mentioned in a blog post getting approval for a story.

[Andrew NDB]

I think he at minimum he needs to write the script. Wasn't that his involvement with issues 29-32?

Of course -- that's half of any comic. Though I think Lawson and Laird's process was a little unique in that there wasn't really ever a script, per se. Laird would just write out a general kind of synopsis of maybe a few paragraphs, then Lawson would draw it out page by page and kind of put in all of the captions and dialogue himself (essentially writing the script himself) with Laird coming back in on the back end to make any changes/additions/removals to what Lawson wrote in there.

[sdp]

Laird is likely going to pass away before 2030 so no.

[neatoman]

Laird is likely going to pass away before 2030 so no.

And what makes you think he'll die before turning 76?