AVATAR... Thoughts?

[Canadian Turtle]

Ok... so it blows me away that non of you have said anything about this... or as soon as this goes up everyone is going to freak and tell me I am double threading about something and get all mad... blah blah blah anyways.

AVATAR! just saw it! I am not sure at what point the high will calm down, but this was incredible. I don't even know how a movie critic can say anything bad about it (well I'm not stupid and I know how they could, but bare with me). This movie is yet again an amazing bench mark set by one of the best movie makers of our time! A very important techinical achievment.

Not to mention this movie has an incredibly important and powerful message! I know I am a fan of epics, so I will just say, this is one of the best movies I have ever seen... we'll see what I think tomorrow, hahaha but right now, BOOYA!

If I was ever given the honor to say anything to James Cameron, all I could say is "thank you".

[Brodie]

It was just OK.

It was essentially a western...not really a powerful message.

It was neat to look at, but it was too long, and the cat people were goofy looking and distracting.

[Ninjinister]

Honestly, it does not look very interesting to me at all.

[XERO]

It pissed me off that it wasn't the OTHER Avatar. Blaheh.

[Canadian Turtle]

Interesting point of view. I would totally agree that it wasn't a totally original idea, as it was a cowboys and Indians movie in space, but that was kinda the point.

So I will make two points in response to your post, no offense to you though brotha.

1. I am not sure if people will appreciate the scope of what they are seeing, this is more or less history in the making when it comes to visual effects, but I think the viewer is to spoiled by ejaculatory crap like what we see in Transformers and so on. Cameron actually invented all knew technologies to capture this movie. I found the world and beings stunningly beautiful, not only from a visual arts perspective but also from a character design and humanoid form perspective, but thats me I guess.

2. The story and message, is old and true, but what I mean is it was very relevant to today, wrapped in a nice package. I don't just mean the boring global warming and love the environment message, that's just one element. What I mean is we don't see the "good vs evil", "week against the strong" story enough any more. Lets face it, there are perallels in themes with this movie that harken back to the Turtles and the world of media in the late 80s and early 90s, something I think we don't see enough of today. This story had so many layers of important messages, from the understanding of our world around us (which us as a species haven't even scratched the surface), the connection of the human body with powers beyond our pitiful 5 scences that I believe are relevent avenues of discussion in of themselves, colonialism and hatred of what we don't understand (another thing North Americans are MAJORLY guilty of), the harvesting of other cultures their identies and resources which us as Nroth Americans have rapped from parts of the world thousands of times over (i.e. diamond mining in Africa and so on and so on), the list could go on and on with this movie.

I am not saying these things don't appear in other movies, and have already for many years. What I am saying is, I as a viewer and movie lover felt this movie captured many of these important and touching themes, and packaged them in one of the most stunning movies I have ever seen and made it all very enjoyable without going into the realm of cheesy. I bought it full heatedly, but again that's just my opinion.

[Brodie]

I'm not saying it isn't visually appealing. Everything looks good, better than Transformers (except the main aliens). The planet, the plants, the wild animals, all that is great.

Cameron hired real botanists, and linguists to create everything in the film, and for these things to have a realistic basis (like the florescence/fish/plants in the water of Puerto Rico). Thats great and all....but really, we ll just watched a better looking FERN GULLY.

[BoggleKng]

I want to see it, I will let you know that I think after I do.. ;-) And what's wrong with Fern Gully?

[Dejablue]

I went and saw Avatar. And just finished watching the Spoony Review this morning. :lol:


http://spoonyexperiment.com/2009/12/20/vlog-12-19-09-avatar/ I've gotta agree. The subtext in this movie is really shallow. It's just white guilt and American guilt in one flashy and admittedly beautiful package. But seriously this story was 10 years in the making? Really? Look throughout history everyone in the world has been a bastard to somebody else. I'm American (though not white) and this kind of hollywood lecturing is getting on my nerves. At best I tuned it out but I'd rather not have to deal with these types of messages in my movies.

I'm trying to escape reality not have it haggerdly shoved in my face in high budget theatrical productions.

[Spitfire]

Ok... so it blows me away that non of you have said anything about this

People on here aren't interested in good movies made by good directors.

I plan on seeing it in 3-D IMAX as it was intended to be viewed. Cameron has yet to let me down and with the critical consensus on this film I doubt he will.

[Brodie]

People on here aren't interested in good movies made by good directors.


Oh my god, you got into some half-assed film courses and think it entitles you to act like an elitist douchebag? At least play it off a little but and make it elitist undertones of douchebaggery.

But as a general statement, its not entirely false. Just have a bit more tact.


Still, I really liked Fern Gully 2.0, people should check it out.

[Samhain]

It was alright. Would look nice on a hd tv.

[The Stryker]

Eh. It was ok.

Really stupid at times.

[poiuytre]

It was alright. It really is Dances With Wolves: Alien Edition, both premise and structure-wise. It's the same old "Americans/humans are selfish and don't care about nature or others" story we've been spoon-fed a hundred times before, with the same level of preaching and condescension as always. I expected a lot more in terms of story given how long it's been in the oven.

The visuals were really impressive but I had a few gripes with them too. At times it suffered a bit from having too much stuff onscreen, like the modern Star Wars entries. The fauna and flora of the world moves and glows to draw your attention to every inch of the screen at the same time. This can be distracting and drew some of the scenes a bit out of focus for me. The floating landmasses with an endless supplies of water pouring out of it bugged me a considerable amount, given how much time was spent on researching plant-life to make the planet feel real and natural. There is just no way that is possible and it's one of the more stupid fantasy-tropes which no amount of suspension of disbelief can salvage.

Acting-wise it was pretty good across the board. Sam Worthington, Giovanni Ribisi and especially Sigourney Weaver delivered some great performances but Stephen Lang stole the show for me. :P I loved him. He had me in tears every time he showed up. He looks like a mix between Chip Hazard from Small Soldiers and Duke Nukem ...and I suppose that's exactly how he acts too. He is the most red-blooded HOO-AH American-military asshole you could imagine. :lol: Praising his scars to show what a badass he is, grunting heavily while lifting weights the size of himself, sipping his coffee during some genocide,... He was amazing. My favorite scene was whenthe crew broke out of the prison and tried to escape the base. Quaritch hears they're making a break for it and he storms outside to shoot them up. They warn him that he must wear an oxygen mask but he's all F- THAT I DON'T NEED TO BREATHE and he starts emptying his clip. He was also the only one whose mech had a gigantic mech-sized combat-knife instead of a gun. :lol:The scene where Giovanni Ribisi starts laughing in Sigourney Weaver's face was priceless too.
Did it live up to the 10+ year build-up and hype? Was this a story that couldn't have been told a decade ago like Cameron claimed? No and double no. The movie didn't deliver in those aspects. Was this an entertaining movie? Yeah, definitely. A bit on the long side, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially the action scenes.

[jaymq]

Looks like I'll have to watch Dances with wolves.

I do plan on seeing this, it looks good. might be a while before I post my opinion on it though.

[Mecha Cow]

It was OK. Nice visuals, but hardly the revolution it was hyped up to be. I find it hard to believe that this was worked on for a decade, since presentation aside, the story was nothing that hasn't already been done a million miles before. It didn't help that the movie lacked any subtlety whatsoever, and that none of the characters aside from Mary-Su... err, Jake were actually developed at all. Also, the last hour or so was nothing but cliché bullsh*t and of course, the movie was way too f*cking long.

That said, it was nice for what it was, but nothing more.

[Canadian Turtle]

Wow this forum never fails to impress! hahaha

I don't want to bash specific peoples opinions, because hey! Those are your opinions and that's cool! I'm all for that! I would just have to disagree with many of them. To address one issue in my opinion that has been dramatically overlooked; why did it take so long and IS such a bench mark movie??? Did you not realize 98.9 % of what you see on screen was completely manufactured in a computer...? Did you not realize he invented totally new technologies to capture this movie? Movies with a lot of CG are almost never done well now adays, even the over budgeted ones. I love Terminator, but #4 had some of the worst chroma keying in movie history! hahah, in my opinion Avatar CG was done the best I have ever seen it done.

I found it to be well balanced and although a lot to look at I was into the story, so it didn't affect me that way. I also found the story to be very deep in subtleties. Not to mention even when I saw how long it was going to be, I was PUMPED! I hate these stupid short movies that try to cram way to much splurge graphics and no plot in less than 90 minutes so they can make more money pumping short sh!t through the theaters.

Furn Gully (awesome movie), yes essentially the same story, Avatar, yes the story has been told before. WHY THE HELL DOES THIS MATTER!?! every story is already done, and no this story or theme is NOT told very well by Hollywood AT ALL! Hollywood is JAMMED PACKED with complete ignorant movies, watch any American war movie and tell me what you see! What was Mel Gibson's "Patriot" about? And where the F were the natives in that movie?? did they not exist in his world? And god forbid we ever see a military movie about any other nation in history. Avatar was a timely story because of many things going on in the world even on the exact date the movie was released.

Anyways in my opinion it was a well placed and well packaged age old story, done with extreme perfection and re-invented movie making completely from a technical perspective.

Oh my god, you got into some half-assed film courses and think it entitles you to act like an elitist douchebag? At least play it off a little but and make it elitist undertones of douchebaggery.


Ouch dude, for one thing he wasn't making any direct relation to you, oh and I take offense to that because I went to film school, I work in the film industry, I know this guy, and no he is no douchebag! So if you take offense to what he was saying, then it kinda makes me wonder why!?

In fact if you look at who and what he was quoting he was pointing to the blatant fact I was saying, that NO ONE comes on a message board to talk good things about anything, they all want to bitch about stupid Sh!t, and thats not just on here. I guess I better get used to it hahaha.

I'm done.

[Spitfire]

Ouch dude, for one thing he wasn't making any direct relation to you, oh and I take offense to that because I went to film school, I work in the film industry, I know this guy, and no he is no douchebag! So if you take offense to what he was saying, then it kinda makes me wonder why!?

In fact if you look at who and what he was quoting he was pointing to the blatant fact I was saying, that NO ONE comes on a message board to talk good things about anything, they all want to bitch about stupid Sh!t, and thats not just on here. I guess I better get used to it hahaha.

I'm done.

Thank you, and you're right. I'm glad someone knows what I'm talking about. People need to relax.

[Brodie]

Ouch dude, for one thing he wasn't making any direct relation to you, oh and I take offense to that because I went to film school, I work in the film industry, I know this guy, and no he is no douchebag! So if you take offense to what he was saying, then it kinda makes me wonder why!?

In fact if you look at who and what he was quoting he was pointing to the blatant fact I was saying, that NO ONE comes on a message board to talk good things about anything, they all want to bitch about stupid Sh!t, and thats not just on here. I guess I better get used to it hahaha.

I was busting his balls. I wasn't taking it personally. I -know- I enjoy lame movies, and make no effort to cover that fact. I WAS busting his balls over the fact that he was acting holier-than-thou.

As an aside, I agree with everything you're saying about Avatar's look. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it LOOKS really great. And I would like to imagine that most people here understand that the majority of things on screen was manufactured by computers. It looks great. The story though is where it gets weird.

And I'm sorry, but when the weird cat-people sex scene happened, I knew an incredibly number of people on furry boards everywhere just wet themselves.

[Roseangelo]

Furn Gully (awesome movie), yes essentially the same story, Avatar, yes the story has been told before. WHY THE HELL DOES THIS MATTER!?!

Well, ever since CGI entered the industry as the standard tool for special effects, including character effects - most specifically with the release of Star Wars: Episode I in 1999 - the most common movie review has been, "It looked pretty, but the story sucked." So I'm gonna be crazy and say that yes, the story does matter.

I haven't seen Avatar, but probably will over the Christmas holiday even though I have not been able to get into the hype over this movie simply because everything I've seen suggests that the story is cliche and unoriginal.

I won't disagree that Avatar looks amazing, or that the technology used/created to make it is amazing on its own, but if my suspicions that the plot is as cliche and unoriginal as other people's comment here would seem to support, I don't understand how this is so forgivable just because the movie looks really pretty.

But I'll go into the movie giving it the benefit of the doubt. Yes, every story has been told before, more or less. Star Wars and Harry Potter are essentially the same story, though obviously vastly different. Maybe Avatar changes up the FernGully story enough to become something new... I guess I'll find out.

[The Stryker]

So just because it's really pretty and took a long time to get done, it's a great movie.

Never mind that the characters are cardboard cutouts and the main character is one the biggest Mary Sues I have ever seen. My eyes were happy. UNOBTAINIUM FOR ALL!

[odupianist]

I've pretty much given up on finding a decent big movie with story these days unless it's a small independent kind of film. I've heard mixed reviews on this Avatar movie of which you speak. Some people have echoed what I heard and most have echoed what I expected: it looks pretty but no substance. I'm not surprised. And please, for the love of all that is holy Canadian, please learn how to spell some of the words you use. If you're in the film industry, please know when to use "weak" over "week" or "new" over "knew". Nothing personal, just a pet peeve of mine.

[Mecha Cow]

Did you not realize 98.9 % of what you see on screen was completely manufactured in a computer...? Did you not realize he invented totally new technologies to capture this movie?
Yeah. So?

I don't think James Cameron reads this forum, dude. You can relax.

[Canadian Turtle]

And please, for the love of all that is holy Canadian, please learn how to spell some of the words you use. If you're in the film industry, please know when to use "weak" over "week" or "new" over "knew". Nothing personal, just a pet peeve of mine.

hahaha dude! Your all to right there! I can't argue with that. I am a camera guy, not a writer hahaha, there is good reason for that. I try my best to check grammar and spelling, but sometimes I miss it because I am actually not good at it, nor have I ever been. That and I get lost in heated discussion. Sorry to all for that!! hahah

On another note, although I pointed out the importance of the visuals, I did not intend to imply visuals are more important than the story. I feel quite the opposite actually. That said, in my opinion I feel that the story was not toooo lacking. basic to some degree yes, but I felt the thematic lines, plot depth and believability within the world was all nicely done, but again personal opinion.

In regards to the sex scene... not sure if it was actual sex in that part, just loving intensely hahaha. I just didn't think of it that way as I really like the visual design of the characters so I guess I "bought it". I can see how it would be different if you were weirded out to begin with.

[plastroncafe]

Add me to the ranks of people most likely going to see this over the holiday weekend. To be honest I'm not really all that jazzed for it due to some of the issues I have with the overall plot, but...it is awful pretty and it will get me out of my mother's house for a few hours.

That right there is more than enough to make it worth the price of admission.

[cqb101]

Saw this at the beginning of the week. The visuals were spectacular. Like, jaw droppingly gorgeous. The 3D blew me away - far better than any 3D I've seen so far. The Na'Vi still didn't come off as realistic as I thought they would considering the amount of hype leading up to this film. Cameron is a great filmmaker that really has a strong grasp on his craft. That said, the story, dialogue, and acting all sucked.

The only real way to experience this movie is in IMAX 3D and for that reason, I'll probably never see it again.

[Warhorse]

I saw it on Monday. It's not a bad movie, but not great either. The special effects were cool when there were the few scenes of the NaVi interacting with the humans, but when it was just the NaVi, it looked like any other CGI fest that I've seen countless times.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Amazing visuals but the story was weak and terribly predictable.

The visuals deserve all the praise in the world, but that won't translate to a home theater setup when it comes out on Blu Ray. I saw it in IMAX 3D earlier this week and I won't bother seeing it again unless it's in IMAX 3D.

[Roseangelo]

Saw it today in 3D IMAX and would pretty much echo what Mr. Snackpants said: See it in 3D IMAX while you can; beyond that experience it is unfortunately predictable.

Definitely not worthy of any Best Picture award. But hopefully the technology can be used to create something else that is equally epic in story as it is in looks.

[lilmotto]

Movie was decent but the visuals were just beautiful all around. I know echo echo!

[That Matt Guy]

Saw it in 3D last night, and yeah it was a good movie. Not the greatest thing in the world and certainly not the most original idea ever, but it was good. Way, way too much hype though.

[Sewer Bull]

Just watched the trailer... this looks like a movie furries would love, isn't it?

[Raph's Girl]

Just got back from seeing it (non-3D version) and Wow! It was visually stunning and I genuenly loved every min of it. Yes there were some parts of the story that reminded me of Fern Gully and even other parts that reminded me of Braveheart. But other then that I loved it. The horse things were way cool as were the dragon creatures.

I loved how everything on the planet intertwined. All creatures were part of another...one body. That was really neat. Best part is when Eywa sent all the creatures to help in the battle.

[The Stryker]

That part bothered me. They all had USB ports.

[ooglafina]

I've always been a little wary of James Cameron for some reason. He can't make a movie unless it's the movie to break all movies, like Titanic. Maybe I'm wrong and he's done several small budget, character based movies that I don't know about. That's probably hypocritical of me since I like and defend Michael Bay. I don't really feel motivated to see a movie because it has the biggest pricetag of all time.

Will this new 3D technology be of any use in the future? I mean will it be a one off kind of technology, never really used again? I'm asking because I'm not sure; not to sound philosophical.

[PAAATE]

As a lot of people already said: Looks good, but boring and predictable.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/bum-reviews/15043-ep036

Bum Reviews pretty much says what I wanna say about the movie, but in a funnier way. :P

[Raph's Girl]

As a lot of people already said: Looks good, but boring and predictable.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/bum-reviews/15043-ep036

Bum Reviews pretty much says what I wanna say about the movie, but in a funnier way. :P

Atlantis the Lost Empire?!Which is seemingly part of the Gargoyles timeline now. Gee thanks Greg Weisman! :lol: Smurfy cats. :lol:

I can see where Pocahontas, Fern Gully, Atlantis the Lost Empire, Pocahontas, and Dances With Wolves comes in....but I saw some of Braveheart in it too. But I still liked it. *shrugs*.

[Spitfire]

I saw it in 3-D Imax. It was impressive to say the least. It had a great message, which is probably the movies shining point. The story was predictable but I found myself not caring. I'm normally really anal about story. That 3 hours brisked away too which shows how well it was paced.

That's some amazing tech they invented. The movies already at a billion and it's only been out 17 days. It's currently the 4th highest grossing movie of all time. Insane.

[Canadian Turtle]

I saw it in 3-D Imax. It was impressive to say the least. It had a great message, which is probably the movies shining point. The story was predictable but I found myself not caring. I'm normally really anal about story. That 3 hours brisked away too which shows how well it was paced.

That's some amazing tech they invented. The movies already at a billion and it's only been out 17 days. It's currently the 4th highest grossing movie of all time. Insane.

Nice! you put it a way I wish I could have. I am not very good with getting my point across on here sometimes. Your comments on the story are exactly what I feel. Good message, age old story, paced and executed really well. Why spend the highest budget in history on some risky story that your not sure people will like.

[NinjaVanish]

After I got over how there is no relation to the other Avatar I loved the movie. The detail was incredible and I liked the story although it reminded me of Pocahontas in a weird way. I do believe though it was long, but for 15bucks to watch movies nowadays, they better make movies longer. lol!

[Cure]

http://9gag.com/photo/16103_full.jpg

[GK Punk]

I just saw it the other day. I enjoyed it, despite it's problems. As others have said, the storyline was a little transparent. But over all it was an enjoyable movie.

[Raph's Girl]

Yeah..that's been going around the net like wildfire. :lol:

There's also a Na'vi porn site. :lol:

[The Stryker]

There's also a Na'vi porn site. :lol:

God. F*cking. Damn. It.

[GK Punk]

There's people willing to ruin everything.

[NinjaVanish]

http://9gag.com/photo/16103_full.jpg

bahaha! thanks for posting this up! This has justified my thought of Avatar's story. That is straight up plagarism Mr. Cameron. Shame on you for taking away from a classic! *sarcasm* :P

[Mr.Turtle]

I went to see the 3D one with my friend! Its down to earth cool!
It was also my 1st time watching a real 3D movie! I can't help but loving it!
They were so realy I could nearly touch thoes white "jellyfish"! XD

[Canadian Turtle]

Ok so lets set aside the fact that everyone and their dog has been going to this movie, the critics like it and it has been making record money... that's aside. Also lets put aside the fact that people like the crap that comes out of Hollywood at the best of times and we all just accept it... I mean really why don't people take a piss on those absurd insults to the medium Twilight what ever movies.

Anyways, my stupid reactions impulse aside (hahah really I am only stoking the fire on purpose here... but you'd have to know me to know that) I'd really like to know what story you would tell if you had 300mill to make a movie and knew you had to make that back? Don't tell me its predictable, just tell me what the hell you would make? Why on earth would someone waist that much money on some new "art" film with some whacked out plot that doesn't work? You make a movie to make money, people are stupid and they want what they are used to. I live in Canada, in my industry we are literally told we can NOT make something like this, we are not "allowed" to make genre films, so we make this art house movie stuff that no one watches. There is a reason this movie is predictable, I am not saying that it is not. If you put that aside and look at how it is executed and enjoy the movie for the kick ass ride that it is, then you'll get your money's worth. Otherwise come to Canada and watch something "new" hahaha.

My thoughts for the evening.

PS to address an earlier question, yes this technology and the way it was used will be used in the future, and does make a massive difference in the way we can create digitally manipulated reality.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Ok so lets set aside the fact that everyone and their dog has been going to this movie, the critics like it and it has been making record money... that's aside. Also lets put aside the fact that people like the crap that comes out of Hollywood at the best of times and we all just accept it... I mean really why don't people take a piss on those absurd insults to the medium Twilight what ever movies.

Anyways, my stupid reactions impulse aside (hahah really I am only stoking the fire on purpose here... but you'd have to know me to know that) I'd really like to know what story you would tell if you had 300mill to make a movie and knew you had to make that back? Don't tell me its predictable, just tell me what the hell you would make? Why on earth would someone waist that much money on some new "art" film with some whacked out plot that doesn't work? You make a movie to make money, people are stupid and they want what they are used to. I live in Canada, in my industry we are literally told we can NOT make something like this, we are not "allowed" to make genre films, so we make this art house movie stuff that no one watches. There is a reason this movie is predictable, I am not saying that it is not. If you put that aside and look at how it is executed and enjoy the movie for the kick ass ride that it is, then you'll get your money's worth. Otherwise come to Canada and watch something "new" hahaha.

My thoughts for the evening.

PS to address an earlier question, yes this technology and the way it was used will be used in the future, and does make a massive difference in the way we can create digitally manipulated reality.

I believe people already expressed what they wanted....a good, non-predictable story. Why do you even keep asking this question?

[PAAATE]

Ok so lets set aside the fact that everyone and their dog has been going to this movie, the critics like it and it has been making record money... that's aside. Also lets put aside the fact that people like the crap that comes out of Hollywood at the best of times and we all just accept it... I mean really why don't people take a piss on those absurd insults to the medium Twilight what ever movies.

Anyways, my stupid reactions impulse aside (hahah really I am only stoking the fire on purpose here... but you'd have to know me to know that) I'd really like to know what story you would tell if you had 300mill to make a movie and knew you had to make that back? Don't tell me its predictable, just tell me what the hell you would make? Why on earth would someone waist that much money on some new "art" film with some whacked out plot that doesn't work? You make a movie to make money, people are stupid and they want what they are used to. I live in Canada, in my industry we are literally told we can NOT make something like this, we are not "allowed" to make genre films, so we make this art house movie stuff that no one watches. There is a reason this movie is predictable, I am not saying that it is not. If you put that aside and look at how it is executed and enjoy the movie for the kick ass ride that it is, then you'll get your money's worth. Otherwise come to Canada and watch something "new" hahaha.

My thoughts for the evening.

PS to address an earlier question, yes this technology and the way it was used will be used in the future, and does make a massive difference in the way we can create digitally manipulated reality.

It doesn't have to be an art style-movie, for it to be unpredictable.

If I had 300 million dollars to make a movie, I know exactly what story I would tell, because it's one I'm working on right now. I obviously don't wanna tell what it's about, but it's not exactly the same story as some other movie, as far as I know :P

Which Avatar was. Different characters, different settings, but exactly the same story as some other movies.

[Spitfire]

The point of the film is the message. If looking at the film as an impressive 3 hour PSA for "Save the Earth" helps you accept that better then by all means. We know he can write, we've seen his other films, this was obviously intentional. If it's intentional I don't consider it a fault. There's very few times I can watch a film and ignore a story because of how blown away I am visually and this was one of those films.

[gobo]

Didn't seem like 3 hours to me... Also, as predictable as it was, I couldn't hold that against it. Before being roped into seeing it, I was expecting some boring, 3-hour, art exhibit. I was pleasantly surprised. It was more a grown-up's version of all those tree-hugger, children's movies people keep pointing out that it's a knockoff of. I enjoyed it.