Why didn't Mirage ever try Direct-to-DVD movies?

[Venom]

I just saw an ad for Marvel Animation's new "Planet Hulk" adaptation and I gotta say, I've always liked the stuff Marvel's animation dept. has put out in recent years and it keeps getting better.

Last year's "Wolverine vs. the Hulk" was geared more toward older fans from what I recall and actually had some bloodshed, as did the old Batman flick "Mask of the Phantasm".

All of this got me to wondering why Mirage never tried a direct-to-DVD movie geared toward the older/comic audience, and not the CG #1 adaptation either. I mean real animation with a harder edge. "Turtles Forever" gave us a glimpse of the Mirage Turtles, but it's nothing compared to what a full-length epic could have been.

I want to see the Turtles stab some baddies kill a Foot soldier or two, dammit! :lol:

Anyhoo, I know this is all for naught since Viacom will never be so cool as to allow something like this to come to light, but still, it would have been neat.

Speculate with me.

[CyberCubed]

Probably because they have no animation studio to do it for them. The original cartoon was produced by Fred Wolf, and 4kids did the 2k3 cartoon, but neither of them would agree to do animation not based on their respective cartoons.

Mirage isn't a very big company. It has like 10 employees, most of whom are gone now. They would have to partner with some new animation studio like Sony or Warner Brothers and pitch a movie idea to them. And of course those studios would never bother to produce one unless they thought it would sell big.

Mirage isn't like Marvel or DC where they can fund animated movies easily. I also doubt Viacom/Nick will produce anything that doesn't fit in with their new CG cartoon.

[Venom]

Yeah I know who Mirage comprised of but seriously, since Eastman was able to get another Heavy Metal anthology rolling it doesn't seem like it wouldn't have been hard for Mirage to license the Turtles to a studio they felt could have did a project like that justice.

[Koi]

Yeah I know who Mirage comprised of but seriously, since Eastman was able to get another Heavy Metal anthology rolling it doesn't seem like it wouldn't have been hard for Mirage to license the Turtles to a studio they felt could have did a project like that justice.

Maybe they didn't want to go that direction?

[gobo]

I also doubt Viacom/Nick will produce anything that doesn't fit in with their new CG cartoon.
The 2012 movie is supposedly gonna be its own thing yet still from Viacom. Perhaps the series will just be the silly, light-hearted further adventures of those guys... or maybe they're attempting a split universe like Ben 10 did with their Cartoon Network Original live-action movies. Either way, one of the artists had assured us that the movie concept will not change due to the change of hand, but it had to be delayed a year. My point? It seems like Viacom is already doing a movie not based on their series. Whether or not it will be the basis for their series is yet to be evidenced.

[Kendamu]

They didn't go DTV because they didn't think they'd make a profit off of it.

Same reason they don't do animated comics, either.

[Newton Gimmick]

Actually Peter mentioned they had a couple of DTV movies planned at various points, but things always fell through.

There was the original comic one, one about Raph as I recall as well.

We never learned much about these sorts of things, but there was probably some ideas similar through the years, but getting these things done aren't always easy.

[sdp]

There was also the DTV prequel for the 2007 movie that fell through. It would have been awesome if it had happened though. Turok, Gen13 and Hellboy got great DTVs based on the comics, just mentioning two examples that weren't DC/Marvel.

With Nick buying the problem is no longer getting money but getting it greenlit is another matter, not to mention Nickelodeon won't put up a dark DTV based on the Mirage comics if we got a DTV it'd be based on the new show, which I'd still be ok with.

[Samhain]

Yeah would be awesome but no dice. I would have loved a animated film that tells the story of issue #1. Epic.

[sdp]

Found this thread on Google, I'm surprised we never got one. Small studios have done them and laird could've afforded to make a mirage DTV just the way he wanted with no interference. I wonder why it didn't happen.
I guess it's within the realm of possibility if it still happening with Nick but I'd say it's highly unlikely to ever happen but perhaps.

[Andrew NDB]

They almost did a straight up animated adaptation of TMNT Vol. 1, #1. Gary Richardson talked Laird into doing "Turtles Forever" instead.

[sdp]

I'm ok with that change and i hated turtles forever. The hype of the crossover and finally seeing the 87 turtles again was greater than a simple #1 adaptation would've been. Even if the movie sucked, you can't take away the excitement and hype leading up to the movie.

[CyberCubed]

No, sdp. It was a fitting end.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm ok with that change and i hated turtles forever. The hype of the crossover and finally seeing the 87 turtles again was greater than a simple #1 adaptation would've been. Even if the movie sucked, you can't take away the excitement and hype leading up to the movie.

I get it. And was OK with Turtles Forever instead of a #1 adaptation. Now, if it was like a brand new, like, "missing" Vol. 1 story, that'd have excited me. Or an adaptation of the actual Mirage "Return to New York."

[Zog The Magnificent]

I get it. And was OK with Turtles Forever instead of a #1 adaptation. Now, if it was like a brand new, like, "missing" Vol. 1 story, that'd have excited me. Or an adaptation of the actual Mirage "Return to New York."

While I'd love to see that, I don't think you can just go straight to "Return to New York". There's too much context behind it that it would feel unfinished. I think my ideal movie would be a Vol. 1 trilogy. The first movie could be like 1990 movie, sort of a compressed adaptation of #1, #2, #10, and the Raphael and Leonardo Micros. I'd skip over the stuff that didn't have to do with the Foot, and maybe change April's introduction to be involved with the Foot instead of Baxter to streamline things. Then the second movie could be Northampton and Return to New York, followed by a third movie to adapt City at War. Though City at War is such a big story, you might need two movies, otherwise it might end up being too rushed. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get anything like that.

[Andrew NDB]

Nah, it could have been do-able. Begin with the Turtles at the farm. Flash back to the important parts of #1. Flash back to Shredder torching the 2nd Time Around Store to quickly explain why they're at the farm. Maybe one of the Turtles dreaming about their Triceraton adventure. Bam. We're all caught up.

[neatoman]

Well this thread is quite old but I might as well say the obvious anyway:

Mirage Studios was a very small company and is clearly even smaller now, it's practically defunct. The reason they partnered with 4Kids and got funding from Playmates in the first place, is because it was unlikely Mirage alone could fund and produce animated projects. I'm sure they would have just outsourced the animation to some other foreign company but that is still costly, not to mention you might still want to hire storyboarders and editors to work on it domestically. I'm not saying it was impossible but if they tried it, then it might have lead to a very low budget project.

Not that it really matters wheter or not they could have done it, despite TMNT becoming a pop culture icon, I don't think the ambitions for Mirage Studios itself extended beyond publishing comic books.

[Leo656]

Well this thread is quite old but I might as well say the obvious anyway:

Mirage Studios was a very small company and is clearly even smaller now, it's practically defunct. The reason they partnered with 4Kids and got funding from Playmates in the first place, is because it was unlikely Mirage alone could fund and produce animated projects. I'm sure they would have just outsourced the animation to some other foreign company but that is still costly, not to mention you might still want to hire storyboarders and editors to work on it domestically. I'm not saying it was impossible but if they tried it, then it might have lead to a very low budget project.

Not that it really matters wheter or not they could have done it, despite TMNT becoming a pop culture icon, I don't think the ambitions for Mirage Studios itself extended beyond publishing comic books.

Yeah. I mean, wasn't the whole joke of it that it was called "Mirage" because it wasn't even a "real" company but just a couple like-minded guys in a room?

I don't think they ever had the means to pursue such ventures even if the interest was there. They'd have had to partner up with someone like WB to produce it, at which point it would become a WB product with them making all the key decisions, thus negating the entire point of the exercise.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah. I mean, wasn't the whole joke of it that it was called "Mirage" because it wasn't even a "real" company but just a couple like-minded guys in a room?

I don't think they ever had the means to pursue such ventures even if the interest was there. They'd have had to partner up with someone like WB to produce it, at which point it would become a WB product with them making all the key decisions, thus negating the entire point of the exercise.

They did at the end. Or at many times towards the end. Or even near the middle. They literally had options. If "let's adapt TMNT #1 as a movie, completely independent of any studio or financiers" was something that was on the table -- and we know it was because they told us -- then they could have done a lot.

But. Without proper distribution, which they DIDN'T have -- independently -- it would have largely just been shot into a vacuum. Which honestly even Turtles Forever was. Guaranteed more people know about even TMNT 2007 (which honestly and sadly isn't even that many) than know that Turtles Forever even exist.

[Leo656]

That's a good point. And you're right, "Turtles Forever" seems like something most people just plain don't know about. If you just explain the basic concept of it to people, it sounds like the kind of thing that should've been a huge, "Spider-Verse" type of thing that got a lot of attention and did huge business. But you still get a ton of, "Where was I when they made that? I never heard about it."

It definitely should've been a much bigger deal than it is/was. Instead, it's like "Remember when they did a cartoon movie where the cartoon TMNT that everyone remembers teamed up with the cartoon TMNT that nobody remembers? And then when they put it on DVD they cut 10 minutes off it and then never re-released it properly? Awesome." If someone announced a project like that Now you'd expect it to be this huge, heavily-marketed thing. It's crazy that it's such a footnote and that most people who would self-identify as TMNT Fans don't know about it.

Granted, Nick/Viacom could theoretically do more to make people aware of it. BUT, they didn't make it, therefore it's not worth anyone seeing and therefore they're not inclined to make more noise about it. Just like the 4Kids show in general.

[IMJ]

The Archie stuff is begging for a D2V animation. Hell, even a "TMNT Meets Archie" based on the one-shot comic would be awesome. And imagine if it was animated in the style of the 80's "Lil Archies" show...... awesome.

[NinjaPug]

They almost did a straight up animated adaptation of TMNT Vol. 1, #1. Gary Richardson talked Laird into doing "Turtles Forever" instead.

Well dang. I’m fine with Turtles Forever but wish we could’ve gotten both.

Still don’t understand why Viacom can’t cater to both demographics like WB does with DC properties.

[Coola Yagami]

That's a good point. And you're right, "Turtles Forever" seems like something most people just plain don't know about. If you just explain the basic concept of it to people, it sounds like the kind of thing that should've been a huge, "Spider-Verse" type of thing that got a lot of attention and did huge business. But you still get a ton of, "Where was I when they made that? I never heard about it."

It definitely should've been a much bigger deal than it is/was. Instead, it's like "Remember when they did a cartoon movie where the cartoon TMNT that everyone remembers teamed up with the cartoon TMNT that nobody remembers? And then when they put it on DVD they cut 10 minutes off it and then never re-released it properly? Awesome." If someone announced a project like that Now you'd expect it to be this huge, heavily-marketed thing. It's crazy that it's such a footnote and that most people who would self-identify as TMNT Fans don't know about it.

Granted, Nick/Viacom could theoretically do more to make people aware of it. BUT, they didn't make it, therefore it's not worth anyone seeing and therefore they're not inclined to make more noise about it. Just like the 4Kids show in general.

Funny story. One time me and my friends were hanging out and it was kinda late. Somehow the topic of Ninja Turtles came up and I asked them if they ever saw the one where 'the classic Ninja Turtles met the modern day (at the time) ones?' They thought I was joking and were like 'nuh uh'. So despite it being 1 in the morning or whatever, I pulled out the disc and we watched the movie.

The point though was, this was merely a 1-2 years after it was released on DVD. This wasn't like 10-20 years ago where you'd go 'heeeeeeey, wasn't there a TMNT crossover thing back then?' This was still kinda/sorta 'recent' and I believe at the time season 1 of 2012 TMNT was still 'new', as in every episode was during its first run. And already it was this weird obscure thing to the general public at large. Sure, a big deal for Ninja Turtles fans, but a weird obscure thing for everyone else.

[CyberCubed]

A lot of revisionist history is being posted in this thread. Turtles Forever was definitely treated like a huge event in 2009. It had a screening before it aired which Roseangelo and Andrew attended and then aired on TV on Saturday morning after Season 7 concluded and was treated like a huge series finale. And was then repeated a bunch of times up through at least 2010 before TMNT left the block. The DVD featured a released that was cut was because FUNimation/4kids were idiots, but the UK release feature the full version with the extra 10 minutes, and besides that it's easy to watch online.

There was also a relaunch of the classic toyline to support the movie in 2009, which is why Playmates re-released all the classic 1988 figures for the first time since the early 2000's when the movie came out. In toy stores in 2009-2010 you saw all the classic '88 figures of the Turtles, Shredder, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, the Foot, etc.

Everyone knows about it too. The young zoomers on reddit and twitter are aware of the movie even from people who didn't follow the 2k3 series when it was airing. That's why when the Nick 2012 series did their crossovers with the 80's Turtles everyone knew this was the "second time" they were doing this and not the first time since Turtles Forever aired.

So I find it odd there's some revisionist history being posted here, since I know everyone posting in this thread right now was around when this was happening.

[Coola Yagami]

A lot of revisionist history is being posted in this thread. Turtles Forever was definitely treated like a huge event in 2009. It had a screening before it aired which Roseangelo and Andrew attended and then aired on TV on Saturday morning after Season 7 concluded and was treated like a huge series finale. And was then repeated a bunch of times up through at least 2010 before TMNT left the block. The DVD featured a released that was cut was because FUNimation/4kids were idiots, but the UK release feature the full version with the extra 10 minutes, and besides that it's easy to watch online.

There was also a relaunch of the classic toyline to support the movie in 2009, which is why Playmates re-released all the classic 1988 figures for the first time since the early 2000's when the movie came out. In toy stores in 2009-2010 you saw all the classic '88 figures of the Turtles, Shredder, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, the Foot, etc.

Everyone knows about it too. The young zoomers on reddit and twitter are aware of the movie even from people who didn't follow the 2k3 series when it was airing. That's why when the Nick 2012 series did their crossovers with the 80's Turtles everyone knew this was the "second time" they were doing this and not the first time since Turtles Forever aired.

So I find it odd there's some revisionist history being posted here, since I know everyone posting in this thread right now was around when this was happening.

Yeah, it was a huge event. For Ninja Turtles fans. Not so much for everybody else. Of my friend group I was the only big Ninja Turtles fan, everyone else was more into anime or wrestling. They were more of the 'oh yeah, I remember them back in the day' and 'would buy a Hot Topic shirt of them' types, but they weren't watching Back to the Sewers every week or whatever. FullMetal Alchemist Brotherhood and whatever else was going back then were a bigger deal to them.

Remember this is a Ninja Turtles forum, named after the villainous lair from the 80's cartoon no less. Naturally if you only base yourself on how people would react on this forum the return of the 80's Turtles would appear like the second coming. Not so much anywhere else though.

[Jephael]

Still don’t understand why Viacom can’t cater to both demographics like WB does with DC properties.

I've been thinking the same thing, though I know certain people have this "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!" mentality when it comes to multiple iterations of their favorite characters. What cracks me up is Disney has been watering down 100+ year old fairy tales for decades and hardly anybody bats an eye, yet when a comic book property geared towards grown ups gets the "child friendly" treatment, die-hard fans go freaking bonkers!!!

In the end, no single person has the right to say what can and can't be done with any fictional piece of work, because they're just that... fiction!!!

[Andrew NDB]

A lot of revisionist history is being posted in this thread. Turtles Forever was definitely treated like a huge event in 2009. It had a screening before it aired which Roseangelo and Andrew attended

Which was an AWESOME event... but we're talking about a theater with like 50 people in it. And I almost didn't even get in... I didn't play the "go around the convention and gather up bandannas (or something) from people" fetch quest you had to do to get a ticket, but I waited in line anyway and GreenWillow like pled with the security guy to let me in. Very nice of her.

[IMJ]

I didn't know that it had any kind of theatrical presentation, but I remember it seemed like a big deal for the Cartoon Network at the time.

[Coola Yagami]

I didn't know that it had any kind of theatrical presentation, but I remember it seemed like a big deal for the Cartoon Network at the time.

It did at a New York Comic Con and to this day it is still the only time it was played in its entirety.

I still think it was the stupidest thing ever to release the TV version on DVD. Like wtf. Imagine buying Ghostbusters or Batman 89 and it's the TV version. What the **** was that?

[Andrew NDB]

It did at a New York Comic Con and to this day it is still the only time it was played in its entirety.

Not including the version we saw at the San Diego premiere with everybody, that is. Though it's out there. I think Plastroncafe sent me a digital version of it uncut eons ago in like 360p quality.

[Coola Yagami]

Not including the version we saw at the San Diego premiere with everybody, that is. Though it's out there. I think Plastroncafe sent me a digital version of it uncut eons ago in like 360p quality.

Oh that one then. For some reason I assume it was New York cause hey, Ninja Turtles. But no, it musta been at the one you were at cause I believe it was a ONE TIME thing only.

[frank_one]

I really appreciated it.
Unfortunately Turtles Forever didn't received any foreign dub and so I don't think it was ever aired outside any english-speaking country. Only fans know it even exists.

[sdp]

I remember someone from the drome illegally recorded the and would get pissed if people shared it since they felt they owned the content for illegally recording it.

[Leo656]

Which was an AWESOME event... but we're talking about a theater with like 50 people in it. And I almost didn't even get in... I didn't play the "go around the convention and gather up bandannas (or something) from people" fetch quest you had to do to get a ticket, but I waited in line anyway and GreenWillow like pled with the security guy to let me in. Very nice of her.

That was definitely awesome of her.

But yeah, Turtles Forever might've been a huge event for hardcores but a lot of the "casuals" missed out on it, and that's the majority of people who would call themselves "TMNT Fans". Whenever one of the TMNT Facebook pages post anything from it there's always a ton of people saying "What the heck was this?! When did this come out?" and so on. So not "everyone" definitely saw it or knew about it.

And past that, it's been over a decade since anyone made noise about it, so if you became a fan, say, after the Nick/Viacom buyout, like you got into TMNT because of the Nicktoon or (god forbid) BayTurtles movies, it's likely you never saw it or heard about it.

[Jephael]

Turtles Forever might've been a huge event for hardcores but a lot of the "casuals" missed out on it, and that's the majority of people who would call themselves "TMNT Fans". Whenever one of the TMNT Facebook pages post anything from it there's always a ton of people saying "What the heck was this?! When did this come out?" and so on. So not "everyone" definitely saw it or knew about it.

And past that, it's been over a decade since anyone made noise about it, so if you became a fan, say, after the Nick/Viacom buyout, like you got into TMNT because of the Nicktoon or (god forbid) BayTurtles movies, it's likely you never saw it or heard about it.

Very few kids these days care about what we enjoyed at their age, even if they're watching mere reboots and/or copies of the characters we liked.

I feel a big reason the 2003 series in a whole never got the recognition that the classic 1987 series had was because of the company that produced it. From what little I know of 4Kids Entertainment, they were a New York based animation company that didn't do any business with Hollywood companies, hence the reason Rob Paulsen and the rest of the cast of the original cartoon didn't get to reprise their roles.

[Coola Yagami]

That was definitely awesome of her.

But yeah, Turtles Forever might've been a huge event for hardcores but a lot of the "casuals" missed out on it, and that's the majority of people who would call themselves "TMNT Fans". Whenever one of the TMNT Facebook pages post anything from it there's always a ton of people saying "What the heck was this?! When did this come out?" and so on. So not "everyone" definitely saw it or knew about it.

And past that, it's been over a decade since anyone made noise about it, so if you became a fan, say, after the Nick/Viacom buyout, like you got into TMNT because of the Nicktoon or (god forbid) BayTurtles movies, it's likely you never saw it or heard about it.

The thing is, Turtles Forever was more of a farewell movie for the 2003 show than anything else. Not many non-TMNT fans were really watching Back to the Sewers week after week back then.

I feel if it was more 'stand-alone' there woulda been more marketing for it, making it seem like a super event.

Instead it felt like "oh hey, the 2003 Turtles are having a farewell movie, and they just so happen to meet the 80's Turtles! Neat, huh?"

[shredder orokusaki]

Many of the 2003 episodes are based on Mirrage comics .

[Andrew NDB]

Instead it felt like "oh hey, the 2003 Turtles are having a farewell movie, and they just so happen to meet the 80's Turtles! Neat, huh?"

Pretty much. People act like it's 50/50 Fred Wolf and 4Kids, when it's nowhere near that.

It's kind of like... what "Star Trek: Generations" was to TNG, "Turtles Forever" was to 4Kids. Except if there wasn't any sequels and if 4Kids never even got an "All Good Things."

Many of the 2003 episodes are based on Mirrage comics .

There is like two fairly faithful ones, the Rat King one and the Kirby one. The rest are pretty horrible bastardizations and exist in name only, IMHO.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Very few kids these days care about what we enjoyed at their age, even if they're watching mere reboots and/or copies of the characters we liked.

I feel a big reason the 2003 series in a whole never got the recognition that the classic 1987 series had was because of the company that produced it. From what little I know of 4Kids Entertainment, they were a New York based animation company that didn't do any business with Hollywood companies, hence the reason Rob Paulsen and the rest of the cast of the original cartoon didn't get to reprise their roles.

Really it was because Turtlesmania was not a thing anymore. Some people that grew up with the original cartoon may have just felt too old to be watching cartoons. I assumed I was the minority during High School that still watched them.