Rumor Control

[Anarchistguy]

For those of you wondering why Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome aren't in the new show, check out Blas from the past no. 73
right here:

http://www.planetracers.com/blast/blast73.html

[Barkworm]

This will cause just more "we want Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady back"-threads. I kinda wish Peter hadn't said that...

[beaker]

This will cause just more "we want Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady back"-threads. I kinda wish Peter hadn't said that...

Actually, quite the opposite...I dont see how there can be any "PLeAzE bRinG baCK RoCKSteADY kRANG and bEBOP!!!111" threads when straight from the man himself:
"The reason they are not in the new show has NOTHING to do with rights issues, but rather the fact that I did not want to use them."

And there you have it.

[Karpo_007]

Well I hope this clears it for everyone. I never would have guessed that they do own the rights. Well it's good to now that issue is just about the fact that they wouldn't fit in the show in milion years.

[Barkworm]

Actually, quite the opposite...I dont see how there can be any "PLeAzE bRinG baCK RoCKSteADY kRANG and bEBOP!!!111" threads when straight from the man himself:
True, but as long as everyone thought, Laird did not own the rights it seemed to be impossible. Now people might think that they should start some petitions or something.
I also don't hope that there won't be any flame-war discussions, why Laird dont't like Bebop and Rocksteady etc.

[Karpo_007]

They were part of the old cartoon, but never part of the true TMNT wich thenew cartoon and the new movie are based on. Im more than happy that the reason is so simple, not just a copyright issue.

But it is weird, if Mirage own the rights to the cartoon characters, why can't they put pictures of the cartoon on the official site?

[Mondo_Gecko]

You know i kinda firgured all along it had nothing to do with any copyright rights or whatever but plain and simple Laird just didn't want to use them.

That makes me very sad knowing that right now if he wanted to he could use them for whatever and he ain't budging. But he's got his own ideas for the TMNT and i may not like them i do have to respect that.

You know i bet if it was up to him we won't even get the reest of the seasons of the old show on dvd. I really hope it's not up to him.

But on the plus whoever came up with the Garbageman episode BRAVO that looks like the best episode ever. and one of the coolest villians.

[Karpo_007]

You are wrong, he has alwyas said he likes the first season. In an interview he said he would like to see it on DVD.

The world is ready now for serious and more mature TMNT, in a saturday morning cartoon form. And as far as I know artisan has not cancelled the old TMNT dvd either.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Yeah thats what i said Karpo he likes the first season. Not the other ones. And i'm worried that i woulden't get to see the rest on dvd.

[Karpo_007]

Well the Artisan owns the rights to the show, not Mirage. But of course Laird wouldn't object it, it would make more money to Mirage if it sells.

It seems to me that you have understood things quite wrong. Laird doesn't hate the old cartoon, it made Mirage some big bucks back in the day. But he created TMNT. It was a action packed comic book with deep plo and good writing. Of course he likes it more, as do most of the older fans.

Now if there is a possibilty to do a Cartoon near the way TMNT originally was, of course it will be done that way. The old TMNT characters like Krang and company will be comingback only if the DVD gets released. That much can be said for certain.

[Barkworm]

Anyway, I don't think that more than two or three seasons will be released on DVD. They won't be that successful.

[Karpo_007]

The 3 first seasons of the old cartoon were good, of course the first season being best of all. I think it would make sense to release thos on DVD. But nothing new has come from artisan, they just said while a go that there ill be a TMNT dvd in 2003.

[Shellfox]

Well I hope this clears it for everyone. I never would have guessed that they do own the rights. Well it's good to now that issue is just about the fact that they wouldn't fit in the show in milion years.
Thats not 100% true, they could fit in to the new show rather well, they just need to be massively retooled, to better fit into the new world. I know they probly will never show up (99.9% sure, the future is not written yet) but they could fit im with the proper work

[Karpo_007]

Im sure there will be non human characters, but not many animal mutant characters. Only way they could fit in would be as human members of the PD, but as it has been said, they will never be in it.

[Anarchistguy]

I think the only animal mutant suitable would be Leatherhead. But not the old toon Leatherhead. The Mirage one adopted by the Utroms.

[Karpo_007]

I think it was said that he will be there in the second season...

[Sparvid]

Reading that Tales of TMNT issue, I find Leatherhead to be a really interesting character! I haven't read #45 yet, but I don't like the idea of having him turn on the Turtles... :|

[Mondo_Gecko]

Oh God If they just have Leatherhead as the only mutant thats going to suck so bad.

I don't want non human characters, instead of mutants. Cuz no way a robot is better then a mutant.

[Barkworm]

What was so cool about every character being a mutant? I mean it was cool as long as there were only a few mutants but they quicly overdid that.
Wasn't there even an ep where Shredder brought a canister of mutagen into the zoo?

[Mondo_Gecko]

It just is. I can't explain it. It just was so cool when the mutagen could turn a person into an animal or an animal into a mutant. That concept will never seem tired to me.

So what there was more then 5 mutants. Is that so bad? It still felt special to me watching someone or an animal get mutated. Those were my favourite episodes.

[Shellfox]

Wasn't there even an ep where Shredder brought a canister of mutagen into the zoo?
Yeah but Dirtbag and Ground Chuck were cool, even if we didn't see them much. And yeah we do need a few more mutants, humans are fine, but seeing some one who can do toe to toe with the guys on a oddity level is cool

[Karpo_007]

It just isn't and I have explained it several times. Originally, TMNT are something special. Old show and archie had so many mutants that there were nothing special about the origin of TMNT. That is why we don't want, and probably don't get wave of animal mutants.

If you want to see those, read archie and watch the old cartoon.

[Barkworm]

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Actually there will be a kind of mutant in the new show:

14.) NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND, PART 2: After discovering an abandoned underground Foot Genetics Lab, and being attacked by once-human Digging Creatures, the Turtles assist those very creatures in trying to repair a Force Field to protect them against mindless beasts roaming the tunnels. But the Force Field needs a new crystal power source, and the only place to get one is by traveling deeper underground, to the seemingly haunted catacombs... where other Diggers have mysteriously vanished.

I guess the writers know what they are doing.

[Shellfox]

Yes but it is a kids show, regardless of what some may want to believe, and kids lick mosters/creatures. Its one of the driving forces behind the concept of Pokemon and MOTU. Seeing a wave of animal Mutant toys would probly be bought up by kids, more so than and endless wave of foot soilders.

[Karpo_007]

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Actually there will be a kind of mutant in the new show:

14.) NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND, PART 2: After discovering an abandoned underground Foot Genetics Lab, and being attacked by once-human Digging Creatures, the Turtles assist those very creatures in trying to repair a Force Field to protect them against mindless beasts roaming the tunnels. But the Force Field needs a new crystal power source, and the only place to get one is by traveling deeper underground, to the seemingly haunted catacombs... where other Diggers have mysteriously vanished.

I guess the writers know what they are doing.

Yes I know foot will have a genetics lab. And I know the show will have non human characters. But not animal mutants like TMNT, with the possible exception of leatherhead.

[Splinter]

But the new series isn't technically "Classic" Mirage either. And from some of the spoilers from the detailed plot descriptions of later in the season, there will be some mutant types. Probably not as many as the old cartoon, but there will be some. And I don't see how people can continue to say that Bebop and Rocksteady couldn't fit in the new series. All they would have to do, is tone down the stupidity factor and tone up the pure brute force of the two of them. I agree that Krang really has no place though. Not without major revamping, moreso then R&B. The fact is, the new series is a complete revamp from anything that has come before. It will follow it's own path. And we can't go into it expecting anything at this point.

[Karpo_007]

Read my previous post.

[Splinter]

Read my previous post.
Note the fact that we submitted just one minute apart. So I saw your post, after I had made mine. Note that section of the plot description for Episode #14. "Once-human Digging Creatures". Sounds like some sort of mole type mutant, if you read into how it's stated. :)

[Karpo_007]

Well I doubt they are any actual mole mutants. Just some weird choice of evolution or something.

[Shellfox]

14- Before a battle erupts, the Turtles discover that the creatures are intelligent and friendly. The beasts explain their origin to the Turtles, which involves the Foot Clan and a mysterious alien race.

Sounds like mutants to me

[Mondo_Gecko]

Yes but it is a kids show, regardless of what some may want to believe, and kids lick mosters/creatures. Its one of the driving forces behind the concept of Pokemon and MOTU. Seeing a wave of animal Mutant toys would probly be bought up by kids, more so than and endless wave of foot soilders.

Yeah thats right kids want mutants. Non human types ain't gunna cut it i don't think.

And it is a show for kids depiste what some believe. If people honestly want to watch an adult cartoon series. Then watch Spawn thats as adult and mature as you can get it. Thats why its on HBO.

[Splinter]

Well I doubt they are any actual mole mutants. Just some weird choice of evolution or something.
Not if they were created in the Foot Genetics Lab. It wouldn't be a evolutionary change, if that change was caused by messing with someone at a genetic level. The plot synopsis reminds me of the old 1956 Sci-Fi flick, "The Mole People". Plus their referred to as "Diggers", a capitalized proper name. And "Diggers" is a slang name for moles. :)

[Mondo_Gecko]

The mole and the digger thing reminds me of Dirtbag.

[Karpo_007]

Well I doubt they are any actual mole mutants. Just some weird choice of evolution or something.
Not if they were created in the Foot Genetics Lab. It wouldn't be a evolutionary change, if that change was caused by messing with someone at a genetic level. The plot synopsis reminds me of the old 1956 Sci-Fi flick, "The Mole People". Plus their referred to as "Diggers", a capitalized proper name. And "Diggers" is a slang name for moles. :)

Well as mutants I mean that they share the same origins as TMNT, the ooze. So the mole people will be genetic experiments done by foot, not mutants like the TMNT.

[Splinter]

Well as mutants I mean that they share the same origins as TMNT, the ooze. So the mole people will be genetic experiments done by foot, not mutants like the TMNT.
They would still be mutants, similar to the TMNT. Even if they ooze isn't what's responsible for their genetic mutation. But according to the mini-synopsis, the ooze could have been involved. Since the "Digger's" origins involve both the Foot Clan and a mysterious alien race (read Utroms). :)

14- Before a battle erupts, the Turtles discover that the creatures are intelligent and friendly. The beasts explain their origin to the Turtles, which involves the Foot Clan and a mysterious alien race.

[Mondo_Gecko]

How do you know mutagen isn't involved. I hope it is.

[Psycho Da Turtle]

It seems to me that everyone supporting mutants and such in the new show are now just trying to say anything, so that if it does happen they could give a big "Told ya so!". However, even if there are mutants, that doesnt mean dick, because it has been stated there wont be an abondance of them. Plus ,with the way the story arcs, it would be hard to tell the whole story of different mutants in one episode.

[JoshBYawn]

With all due respect, something doesn't rest easy with me about Peter Laird. He seems more into pleasing Peter Laird than pleasing the fans of the show. Has anyone else thought about this? He seems incredibly, well, stubborn and set in his ways in pleasing himself all while the fans try to give rejected input. Maybe this is why Eastman left and if so, I could understand. While Laird refusing to add crap like Venus may just buy the show a long life, I think that he needs to be open to bringing back characters enjoyed by the fans. If the fans aren't happy and don't watch -- why have the show?

Josh

[Kali]

I don't have a problem with Laird wanting to do the comic/show/whatever his way. He wants to do it "right". The problem seems to be that he's very biased as to what he thinks is "right". As I've said before, it's not what he does, it's how he goes about doing it. He gives short, curt answers, and seems almost offended if anyone suggests he make the slightest changes in his work.

As Laird's said, this is his comic, and he's doing this because he wants to and because it's fun. The man obviously has a vision. He's not dictated by his fans, but I do feel that he's at least trying to reach them all on some base. But you can't please everybody, you know.

[Mondo_Gecko]

With all due respect, something doesn't rest easy with me about Peter Laird. He seems more into pleasing Peter Laird than pleasing the fans of the show. Has anyone else thought about this? He seems incredibly, well, stubborn and set in his ways in pleasing himself all while the fans try to give rejected input. Maybe this is why Eastman left and if so, I could understand. While Laird refusing to add crap like Venus may just buy the show a long life, I think that he needs to be open to bringing back characters enjoyed by the fans. If the fans aren't happy and don't watch -- why have the show?

Josh

Oh My God Josh i had the exact same thought about a day or so ago. I completly know what your talking bout. I don't like people like that. Its one thing to have a vision or idea or a direction in a way you want to take your creation but its utterly wrong when you shoot down the idea of certain ideas or characters coming back just because you don't like em. He seems completly stubborn and i'm always right. It's too bad it really is.

[Anarchistguy]

How do you know mutagen isn't involved. I hope it is.

"Mutagen" as you call it, isn't in the new toon. It's ooze. Ooze and Mutagen are two diffrent things.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Well whats the diffrence? Just the name?

[Splinter]

How do you know mutagen isn't involved. I hope it is.

"Mutagen" as you call it, isn't in the new toon. It's ooze. Ooze and Mutagen are two diffrent things.
Potato vs. Potato. Tomato vs. Tomato. It's still the same stuff, and it does mutate animals, so mutagen is perfectly acceptable. To argue otherwise is just being overly critical. Especially since we haven't had the Utroms say what it is for certain yet. :)

As for the whole Laird issue, I would have to agree as well. Infact I have a feeling that it was probably Eastman primarily behind the old Toon incarnation. Even though at the time, Laird went along with it. And got alot richer off it, then he did the original Mirage stuff. I guess the incarnation was good enough at the time to fill his bank account, but not now.

Which may have actually led to their falling out. Just judging from the fact that Eastman sold his intrest in TMNT to Laird. And also taking into account, the fact that Eastman still enjoys answering questions about the old TMNT stuff at comic conventions. Where as Laird often comes off as demeaning, rude, and trite in many of his answers. :)

[Anarchistguy]

To answer your question Mondo Gecko, mutagen is a substance which turns you into the last creature you were in contact with. But ooze just evolves the the creature's current states. With mutagen, the TMNT became human because they have last been in contact with Hamato Yoshi, who became Splinter 'cause he has been last in contact with the rats. But with ooze, the TMNT and Splinter gradually evolved into humanoid form.

[Shellfox]

I can't really add anything to this whole Laird situation, everyone has summed up how I feel pretty well.
But I still have to say one thing: He wants to do this his way fine, its his vision and I can't stop him, but to desrespect the fans is one of the most dangerous things he can do, you get rid of us and hes no where.

[Splinter]

Exactly. I'm all for Laird doing it his way. It's his baby, and whether it manages to flourish, or fail will ultimatly rest in his hands. But yes, he has to be careful with his attitude. Disrespecting the core audience, that remebers and loves the old cartoon will not make the new one flourish.

As popular as the Mirage stuff was, it still has a smaller following then the vintage series. So he needs to watch how he responds to questions about the old series. Some of his comments could be considered downright insulting to fans that prefer the old style.

And that only succeds in driving a larger wedge between the "classic" TMNT and "modern" TMNT fans. We've seen that more then enough here, when people mention that they like the older series better. And are met with rude comments judging their intelligence.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Thanks anarchistguy.

I perfer mutagen cuz it sounds cooler then ooze.

One of the of the things i love about the cartoon and what I thought always worked best and was the best idea was Hamoto Yoshi becoming Splinter.

Think about it he was Shredder's teacher and a great ninja master, he will always have that between him and Shredhead. It works so well and is one of the best dynamics.

[Nturtle]

I alwasys liked that factor too, when Shredhead and he fought it was like Master vs. Student, which was kind of cool!!
The movie uses the scratches and the ear in the same kind of way...

[Reznorite420]

Anyway, I don't think that more than two or three seasons will be released on DVD. They won't be that successful.I'd buy the whole series :D

[Reznorite420]

I just read the whole thread, and all I have to say is this:

The only TRUE TMNT fan is one who doesn't ONLY like Mirage, doesn't like ONLY the original toon, or doesn't like ONLY The Next Mutataion, but one who likes EVERY universe with the same respect. The only thing that keeps me from being a true fan is the fact that I abhor The Next Mutation with a passion.

To me, I think trying to compare one TMNT universe with another is like trying to compare an elephant with chocolate syrup.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Think about it guys, last time around, everyone got to take liberties with the TMNT. So many things were changed and twisted around.
But now, the TMNT are having a "second coming" and Laird has much more controll this time, so he sees this as his big chance to show the public the TMNT as they were intended to be! No tampering!
Now that he's got the money and the approval, he can now do this the way he's always wanted to.
If there is a "third coming" it will probably be more like a combination of the two and may even have a (retooled) Rocksteady and Bebop rivival. Since he'd then have it out of his system. And, if not, I'd still rock!
As for his "rudeness", he probably gets a million "bring back Rocksteady and Bebop" letters a day. And, when you're asked the same question a million times a day you tend to get tired of hearing it and angry at it's asker. So, just put yourself in his shoes. Ok?

[Karpo_007]

It's is Laird's work now. Of course he wants to make cartoon as the TMNT were originally ment to be. Besides, it is the miniority of fans that want R&B back, so even if he would consider fan's requests, they wouldn't be in it.I think that maybe Laird has gone a little off with the new volume[I heard it lacks action] But he definetly made the right choice about the new cartoon.


If you want the goofy TMNT and millions of mutants, by all means, watch the old show. It has 194 episodes so there is plenty of that.

[Reznorite420]

I LOVE the original toon, I LOVE the new toon, I LOVE Mirage, the only thing I HATE is The Next Mutation, which, as far as I'm concerned, not even worthy of being called TMNT.

[Karpo_007]

There are those here that like it to.

[HorseTechie]

Think about it guys, last time around, everyone got to take liberties with the TMNT. So many things were changed and twisted around.
But now, the TMNT are having a "second coming" and Laird has much more controll this time, so he sees this as his big chance to show the public the TMNT as they were intended to be! No tampering!
Now that he's got the money and the approval, he can now do this the way he's always wanted to.
If there is a "third coming" it will probably be more like a combination of the two and may even have a (retooled) Rocksteady and Bebop rivival. Since he'd then have it out of his system. And, if not, I'd still rock!
As for his "rudeness", he probably gets a million "bring back Rocksteady and Bebop" letters a day. And, when you're asked the same question a million times a day you tend to get tired of hearing it and angry at it's asker. So, just put yourself in his shoes. Ok?
Yes... I totally agree you there, TetsuD.

I know you guys think you are being ignored, and that he should listen to fans... but you kow, I really think they do. I can name a number of fans I know who have good standings with the Mirage folks, and have influenced their thinking. I also think back to the past times my friends and I have wished if Mirage had another go at it, they could try it this or that way. Gritter cartoon, shortened nicknames, more martial arts action, nunchucks, action figures with realistic weapons, etc. Man... forget about the little things you don't have, and look at the AWESOME stuff they DID DO FOR US.

I guess it's my age and experience that understands why Laird seems to be so 'rude'. You try working a 40+ something hour week, trying to get all these demanding tasks and jobs completed 100% by said deadines, and hoping that something else doesn't unexpectantly pop-up to throw you off schedule. Being a comic book creator/artist is a hulleva lot harder than art class in school, and not as fun as doodling something on your notebook while board in chemistry.

Then.. have many, many whiney sounding emails from a broad range of fans email you the same questons over and over, with one person saying to to it this way, while the opposition rather you do it that way... on top of copyright worries and rumor control.

The perfect definition of STRESS! Stress has a way of making nice people go bad. (just ask Raph) Laird, I noticed, seems to be the enbodiment of Don and Leo. And you know those two Turtles also get cranky when put under lots of pressure.

So you know.. how about a little consideration for Mirage too... huh, guys?

[Karpo_007]

Yeah, it is foolish to say Mirage doesn't listen to it's fans. Most people wanted to see a cartoon show based on the original TMNT, and thats what we got. They can't please everyone, so this might be disapointing the fans of the goofier TMNT, but the TMNT has gone to it's roots, and is staying there.

[HorseTechie]

Yeah.. which as Kali had mentioned earlier... there is no way Laird could make everyone 100% happy. As soon as one bunch of fans are pleased, the opposing bunch will be upset. In the end, it's simply easier for him and the rest of Mirage to make thier own calculated decisons, and stay there.

I like the new show... the Mirage guys say they like the new show, and the rest of the majority is giving them a good thumbs up... so just let bygones be bygones!

[Karpo_007]

Yeah. We should be happy we have a great new show.

[wyrm]

The world is ready now for serious and more mature TMNT, in a saturday morning cartoon form.

jeez, am i the only one who wants to laugh on saturday mornings?

krang bebop and rocksteady should return(yes i know none of you think they will, i got it) jus to enhance the comedy of this show, sure every once in a while mike will make a stupid crack, but his character is basically raph from the old show, this new toon needs to lighten up

[Karpo_007]

Thats how TMNT are ment to be. But I wouldn't call it a serious show. It's more like the first movie, combination of original TMNT and Humour.

[Kali]

Yeah, there's tons of humor in the new show. One of the reasons I tape it, because I miss half the stuff from laughing so much the first time I watch it. Like "Fallen Angel", when Don's trying to "blend", I'm still laughing at that. :lol: I love that type of humor, the kind that doesn't bash you over the head with a neon sign and point "This is funny!"

[Mondo_Gecko]

I haven't found much of it funny. Theres been one time during all the shows i've seen where i laughed.

[Karpo_007]

Even the humour is more sofisticated and mature in this show, but still simple enough for kids to understand, of course they might not pay much attention to the jokes.

[HorseTechie]

Well, here... *gives the disgruntled kids the video tape series of the old cartoon* ...go watch these instead and enjoy yourselves. We''ll be over there watching the FoxBox show. :D


...yes, I am quite the stinker. :P

[Karpo_007]

LOL :lol:

[Eye of Sarnath]

I myself think that the new show is funnier than the old one.

[The Defibrillator]

I agree with banana man

[Mondo_Gecko]

The new show is too dark for me to enjoy it as much as i enjoyed the old cartoon and still do.

I don't know whats so funnt about it either. I laughed once in the first episode. Someone care to fill mew in to whats so funny?

[Karpo_007]

I guess now that the fans are older, the more mature jokes do work better. It's not a comedy like the first cartoon, but it does have humour.

[Raven]

they probably will have rocksteady and bepop in the show but most likely as background charaters and not mutants

and if so it would be like 5th season

[Karpo_007]

Keep dreaming!

[Sparvid]

I don't know whats so funnt about it either. I laughed once in the first episode. Someone care to fill mew in to whats so funny?Mikey's reaction when Casey wrecks his DVD player! :lol:

And let me think of some more...

"This is Casey, the nutca.. err, guy we told you about"

"Hey, did I mention these guys are really strong too?"

Mikey's various imitations of Splinter.

"Man, I'd sure hate to be a rat in this city! Oh, sorry Sensei..."

-"They're moving randomly. Probably when they were cut of from the main group they became mindless, unmotivated."
-"Ahh, like when Raph goes solo! He becomes mindless, unmotivated..."

[Raven]

Keep dreaming!

about what?

hehe I say somthing but I think ive done nonthing so far as speak my mind

[Karpo_007]

Yes, but it will never happen. Hence "keep dreaming".

[Duke]

krang bebop and rocksteady should return(yes i know none of you think they will, i got it) jus to enhance the comedy of this show, sure every once in a while mike will make a stupid crack, but his character is basically raph from the old show, this new toon needs to lighten up
Old show Raph = new show Mike

I just don't see it.

[Splinter]

Yes, but it will never happen. Hence "keep dreaming".
It will happen, if ratings slack off and Laird needs to start drawing in the old cartoon fans as well to keep the show afloat. Money can have a powerful influence, on people who consider themselves artists. :)

[Roseangelo]

Ok, Peter Laird says very bluntly that Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady will never appear in the new show and people are still convinced they will eventually? Oy, give it up!

As for the humor in the new show, there is tons of it and I absolutely love it. It is not the same kind of humor as the old cartoon, which was more slapstick-like, but it is still very funny. If you can't see that I can't help but wonder if you're watching the same show..

[Splinter]

Yes, he's very rude and blunt about those comments. That doesn't mean squat at this point. We're not even thru the first season yet. If history has shown anything, many artists are often very willing to change their minds on a whim, to please the audience. Especially when a nice paycheck is involved. :)

[Anarchistguy]

I'm sarting to get pessimistic. Maybe he WILL bring back Bebop and Rocksteady because old show fans drive him crazy for requests and fulfill these requests to be left alone. (Of course, that's just a theory)

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I'm sarting to get pessimistic. Maybe he WILL bring back Bebop and Rocksteady because old show fans drive him crazy for requests and fulfill these requests to be left alone. (Of course, that's just a theory)
Man do I hope not. I wouldn't mind them in yet another series but this one should stay Mirage-based.

BTW @vintage Splinter: Shut the hell up! Not everyone is money-influenced, and I pity you if you are. Besides Laird is still rich from the original TMNT, I think he has all the money he could want.

[Kali]

Actually, fulfilling requests to get people to back off would have to opposite effect. They would see that you're willing to compromise, and hit you up for more requests.

And it's true that many artists can be easily swayed by money, however, there are still a few of us who would stick to our guns. I'm just about as stubborn as Mr. Laird when it comes to my creations and it would take a pretty big paycheck, as in "here's the cash" not "we think it'll work", to make me make a huge change in my creations that I don't want to make.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Actually, fulfilling requests to get people to back off would have to opposite effect. They would see that you're willing to compromise, and hit you up for more requests.

And it's true that many artists can be easily swayed by money, however, there are still a few of us who would stick to our guns. I'm just about as stubborn as Mr. Laird when it comes to my creations and it would take a pretty big paycheck, as in "here's the cash" not "we think it'll work", to make me make a huge change in my creations that I don't want to make.
Right On! You took the words right out of my mouth Kali! I wouldn't change my comics just for money either (well, I might tone down the gore in "WhitesheLL", but not just for money, and no story changes!). A true artist believes in "Art for Art's sake", and Laird seems to be taking his art quite seriously. :wink:

[Apple Cat]

---delete this

[Karpo_007]

Yeah, and since most of the fans did, and do still want a show based on Mirage, it will never happen. Let the caracters rest in peace.

[HorseTechie]

krang bebop and rocksteady should return(yes i know none of you think they will, i got it) jus to enhance the comedy of this show, sure every once in a while mike will make a stupid crack, but his character is basically raph from the old show, this new toon needs to lighten up
Old show Raph = new show Mike

I just don't see it.
I do! Mikey was orginally the funny one, not the surfer-wanna-be! They just made Raph the jokester in the old show, since they thought his moody temper would not fly for the parents.

But I still think Raph is plenty sarcastic with the right amount of sly humor in the new show... and this coming from someone who ALSO likes the stand-up comedian also known as Raph in the old show. :wink:

[Donatello]

Yes, but it will never happen. Hence "keep dreaming".
It will happen, if ratings slack off and Laird needs to start drawing in the old cartoon fans as well to keep the show afloat. Money can have a powerful influence, on people who consider themselves artists. :)


i must resent that, laird has kept his artistic integrity despite his fortune. tmnt keeps it's roots in the new comic, and i'm sure he'd abolish the new show before turning it into the old oone. THEY ARE TWO COMNPLETELY DIFFERENT SHOWS!!!!!!

jeez how many times has that been said. bebop, rocksteady, krang and the technodrome will NOT be in the new show. i honestly believe laird would let it die than destroy it

[Donatello]

And it's true that many artists can be easily swayed by money, however, there are still a few of us who would stick to our guns. I'm just about as stubborn as Mr. Laird when it comes to my creations and it would take a pretty big paycheck, as in "here's the cash" not "we think it'll work", to make me make a huge change in my creations that I don't want to make.

same story for me. i'm eventually going to film school for tv production and plan on creating my own cartoon show. after college of course, but i'd rather destroy my creation than see it morph into something i'm not proud of

not every artist is swayed by money Ted Danson, Conan O'brien, Jerry seinfeld, etc. need i continue?




okay as for humor in the new show. it is there, very much so. but in this one it's put more in context. in the old show every moment was funny even when it shouldn't have been. the intellegence factor is much more present in this show. it's much more clever.








jeez, am i the only one who wants to laugh on saturday mornings?
krang bebop and rocksteady should return(yes i know none of you think they will, i got it) jus to enhance the comedy of this show, sure every once in a while mike will make a stupid crack, but his character is basically raph from the old show, this new toon needs to lighten up oh no wyrm is back... :|

my thoughts exactly

[Leo656]

I kinda find it funny how tastes can change as one gets older. When I was like, 7 or 8, everyone I knew loved Michaelangelo, and to not name him as your favorite Turtle was to be ostracized on the playground during recess while the other kids were playing Ninja Turtles. Nowadays, it seems like everyone likes Raphael the best. Personally, I like Raph a lot but he could never be my favorite; he's too much like me, and not in a good way.

As for the new show vs the old show, I honestly think the new show is just as funny, much better animated, and far less pandering than the old show. The old show was definitely a kids show, and anyone who didn't watch it back then would find it almost unwatchably corny now, I think. I love the old show, but I admit that's mostly for sentimental reasons. Even at 7 I groaned at a few of the jokes. I think the new show is an actual good show with stuff that almost anyone could like if they gave it a chance.

And I'm glad that Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang aren't coming back for the same reason I'm glad that Roddy Piper isn't wrestling again despite bringing back "Piper's Pit" on Smackdown. Let the past stay in the past where it belongs. Visit it, embrace it, treasure it, but don't live there.

Remember: "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow aint as bad as it seems."

A cookie goes to whoever names the song and artist that said that. Your choice of cookie.

[Donatello]

i agreed with you up until the cookie thing

[Leo656]

You don't like cookies?

[Donatello]

no, i do, i just lost ya at that point :tlol: cookies?

[Leo656]

I just thought a cookie would be a nice reward to whoever guessed that particular song reference I made. 8)

[Donatello]

oh, i didn't realize you made a song reference, between all the mangos and dancing bananas here i thought it was some random phrase

[Karpo_007]

I know excatly what you mean Leo656. I happened to watch all ofthe 194 episodes in some 6 months. But it was ment to be show for little kids so we have no right to judge it now. Im pretty sure little kids would still love the old show like we did back in the day.

[SavantiRomero]

I'm 25, I still like Mike the best!

MWAHAHAHAAH!

[Stefano]

it seems everybody likes mike. im more of a leo guy

[Raven]

leo is my fav

but mike is ok(Every time hes on I laugh)

[TMNT_4ever]

Remember: "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow aint as bad as it seems."

A cookie goes to whoever names the song and artist that said that. Your choice of cookie.

Billy Joel "Keeping the Faith"

My mom loves Billy Joel so I heard him all the time growing up.

And I agree with everything you said about the cartoons. The old show was great as a kid, but no way would I like it now if it was airing for the first time, but I'd like the current show even if I'd never heard of the Turtles.

[Leo656]

So... what kinda cookie do ya want? 8)

[XERO]

Got Milk? :D

[HorseTechie]

Ohh.. lovely speech, Leo! I so agree abotu the old cartoon now versus when I was a kid. The fact the old old days change does happen.

I remembered watching the Transformer movie the first time I got the VHS last year... and I was like, "wow.. that was wierd. Don't remember so many dying, and the confusing fast action, or the slightly-off beat rock music". But when I first saw it when I was 9, I loved it! Same thing happens when I try to watch some of the other cartoons from the 80's. Mhh...

[wyrm]

jeez, am i the only one who wants to laugh on saturday mornings?
krang bebop and rocksteady should return(yes i know none of you think they will, i got it) jus to enhance the comedy of this show, sure every once in a while mike will make a stupid crack, but his character is basically raph from the old show, this new toon needs to lighten up oh no wyrm is back... :|

what's that supposed to mean?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

It means you're a pain!!

[Apple Cat]

---delete this

[Kali]

Guys, if you have personal problems with someone, take it to PM or off-board, don't mess up the threads with it.

[Donatello]

anyway to get back on track (and hopefully avoid a flame war)

Ohh.. lovely speech, Leo! I so agree abotu the old cartoon now versus when I was a kid. The fact the old old days change does happen.

I remembered watching the Transformer movie the first time I got the VHS last year... and I was like, "wow.. that was wierd. Don't remember so many dying, and the confusing fast action, or the slightly-off beat rock music". But when I first saw it when I was 9, I loved it! Same thing happens when I try to watch some of the other cartoons from the 80's. Mhh...

on the subject of tranformers: they really should do a live action trilogy for tf. it is possible now and it could be great.

have the first movie everybody land on earth and the autobots beat the decepticons. the second, the decepticons come back and defeat the autobots, but megatron dies and they retreat back to cybertron under starscreams lead. the autobots have to stay on earth to rebuild it and thje last scene of the movie megatron reappears with help from starscream and he wipes out startscream and continues onto cybertron.third movie the autobots finish rebuilding earth and head to cybertron(w/ dinobots) and win the wart and optimus slays megatron for good.

but no more after that. 4 movies is too many

[HorseTechie]

Hrmm.. dunno if TF's are any more back on track!

But a live action Transformer movie? ehh...?

I do hope you mean people making human size robots (kinda like those Short Curcuit). Cause.. I really doubt a human in a robot suit could transform and still function afterwards! :lol:

However, that cheesy cyber style Saban does freaks me out too... No...

If any notion of a TF happens, I rather it be CGI.. if not reminescent of Beast Wars. :wink:

Now.. back the TMNT... *heh*

[Donatello]

well, i mean cgi transformers in a real world, live action people. they have the technogolgy for that so the cgi tfs could look real. for ex Yoda

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

In japan, They did a live-action Gundam movie(called G-saviour) with CGI Gundams, and it rocked!
If they can do Gundams they can do Transformers.

[HorseTechie]

Ahh.. yeah, yeah. That's a better way of doing it live action.

Speaking of which, I know what you mean abou the Gundam Wing CGI. There's a guy in my 3D Maya class who did one too, and really well! (I'm doing the Transformer! :evilgrin: )

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Well this is an official movie, here's the website.
http://www.gundamofficial.com/www_gs/