Have the writers of TNM ever weighed in on the continuity issues?

[johnboy3434]

I know that the continuity issues of TNM are an age-old discussion among Turtle fans, second only to "why the Hell did they make it in the first place?". I was just curious if the writers on the show actually intended for it to be a follow-up to the first three films, or if they were just doing their own thing and not paying attention to any prior works. Has anyone ever said anything, or is it all fan speculation?

[Powder]

Well originally The Next Mutation was the title to a proposed 4th TMNT film in 1994. Due to the low ticket sales & overall crap quality of the third film it was canned then later picked up as a TV due to it being cheaper & potentially better for marketing toys & the like. To my knowledge, the series picks up where the third movie left off, hence using the same lair.

[ToTheNines]

Welcome to the Drome!

Well, I'd say that the writers kinda just did their own thing with the show... but the producers and who ever else had creative control over the concept and over-all design of the show had based some stuff off of the movie continuity.

But to me, canon comes down to personal preference. I just believe what I want.

[johnboy3434]

Welcome to the Drome!

Well, I'd say that the writers kinda just did their own thing with the show... but the producers and who ever else had creative control over the concept and over-all design of the show had based some stuff off of the movie continuity.

But to me, canon comes down to personal preference. I just believe what I want.

Hmm... so there's never really been official confirmation one way or the other? Too bad. Anyway, as far as "canon" goes, Turtles Forever basically established that everything is canon in some form or another, what with basically every incarnation besides TNM (if you consider it separate from the first three movies) being featured in the multiverse scene.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the welcome!

[ToTheNines]

Hmm... so there's never really been official confirmation one way or the other? Too bad. Anyway, as far as "canon" goes, Turtles Forever basically established that everything is canon in some form or another, what with basically every incarnation besides TNM (if you consider it separate from the first three movies) being featured in the multiverse scene.

Well, I mean... everything's canon, but not everything is of the same continuity (even if they do cross over).

Anyways, I think Eastman has said that it follows the first three movies. Also, some people like to think the the 2007 movie is a sequel to the 3 films, but ignores TNM.

[CyberCubed]

They never explain why Shredder is "alive" and "non-mutated" in Next Mutation though, assuming it was meant to continue from the first 3 films.

I just think of it as a loose continuity. Overall the show now feels non-canon in general, almost as if it never happened.

[johnboy3434]

Well, I mean... everything's canon, but not everything is of the same continuity (even if they do cross over).

Anyways, I think Eastman has said that it follows the first three movies. Also, some people like to think the the 2007 movie is a sequel to the 3 films, but ignores TNM.

Eastman himself? Wow. Would you happen to remember where you read this, or is it lost to the mysts of time?

That kind of makes sense. In TMNT07, Mikey makes a "your mom" joke, and Donny makes the obvious "she'd be your mom, too" remark. The implication is that they are blood brothers. It's been a while since I've watched TNM, but wasn't it explicitly stated that they were only adopted brothers in the series?

That kind of sucks, though, because TMNT07 would otherwise make an elegant segue into TNM by (heavily, HEAVILY) implying that Shredder was alive, despite the incident at the docks. Then, in TNM, poof! He's alive and leading the foot clan again. This would also explain why Venus wasn't mentioned in TMNT07: they hadn't met her yet. Of course, the blood relation aspect kills the whole idea, but I was just brainstorming.

[ToTheNines]

Very interesting, I've never heard anyone suggest that TMNT07 could take place before TNM.

There's also the issue of the sewer lairs, and the origin date of the music heard the movie. But it's still an interesting thought.

[sdp]

I watched The Next Mutation last fall, if you click my sig you go to my review thread were I go into detail including continuity.


Its never been made official, the fourth movie was supposed to be TNM is as close as we'll ever get. TNM however was clearly made as a sequel to the three live action movies. Since TNM is seen as the red headed stepchild by fans, the fandom tries to deny that its in continuity with their beloved movie.

The turtles have the same personalities as they do in the movies which were a bit different than the cartoon ones like Raph being angry instead of sarcastic. They live in the Subway of the second and third movies. The Foot wear the same or very similar outfits from the first/second movies. Splinter has his comic origin with the sliced ear and not his cartoon origin. April cameos as a reporter something only shared by the movie and cartoon universe. The show is also more "realistic" like the movies.

Not explaining how Shredder survived the dock incident is not a big deal IMO, the second movie never explained how he survived his first death either and that was a much more violent death than the dock one which he could have easily survived this.


Now TMNT 2007 is NOT in continuity with the first three movies. I really wanted the movie to be in continuity but when you watch it you realize its an entirely different universe. The prequel comic and tie-in books show how much different this universe is to the first three movies which were more "realistic" in setting while this universe is as sci-fi heavy as the original cartoon. In the movie universe the Silver Sentry exists and they fought the Triceratons, do you really see either of those things have happened in the universe of the first three movies?
Thats not counting that April is not a reporter and the turtles personalities are different from the previous three movies. Only thing 2007 has is the trophy room which in the end was just for fans and nothing else. I mean Shredders helmet and the canister mean nothing since EVERY turtles universe has those things. The Time Scepter is the only real connection however no reason why the TMNT 2007 universe couldn't have had their own time scepter story, after all the Silver Sentry a character that had only appeared in TMNT 2k3 is canon to this universe and I don't see people trying to fit both those universes together (hmmm could it?). Even the director never said it was a sequel to the live action movies, he always said it was if anything a loose sequel of the first movie that all you needed to know was that Shredder had been defeated (which has happened in most TMNT continuities). I really wanted the movie to be in continuity it the past films but after I saw it I realized they just couldn't be.

I've thought about TMNT 2007 taking place before TNM but like I mentioned I didn't like shoehorning the fourth movie for the sake of being a movie since its pretty much its own universe that doesn't fit well with the previous three movies.

Fun Fact, TNM b makes the entire 17+ seasons of Power Rangers in continuity with the first movie, another reason why the fandom will never accept the truth.

[johnboy3434]

Very interesting, I've never heard anyone suggest that TMNT07 could take place before TNM.

There's also the issue of the sewer lairs, and the origin date of the music heard the movie. But it's still an interesting thought.

See, the way I figured it was... okay, if I remember correctly, the turtles are 15 in the first film, right? For the title of TMNT07 to apply, that leaves us around 5 years in which to fit the four films. The second film can't be more than a week or so after the first, since Shredder crawls out of the trash alive and under his own power. The third film can take place at just about any point after that and before TMNT07, but lets say it's less than a year after the first two.

After that, Splinter sends Leo on his quest. I don't recall if we ever learned how long he was SUPPOSED to be gone, but he stayed a year longer than that. Let's say he was supposed to be gone for two years, and stayed three. He returns for the events of TMNT07, and the turtles are 19, so still technically "teenage". It's been ages since I've seen TNM, so I can't remember if they're supposed to be teenagers or not, but they DID drop it from the title. If they still have to be teenagers, just shorten the amount of time Leo was supposed to have been gone or the time between the second and third films.

In addition to the blood relationship problem, though, the lair is problematic. I have a hard time remembering what the lair looked like in the first film, but I don't remember it being as big and sprawling as the one from the fourth film. It could be that the turtles found a new lair, but returned to the subway as a precaution when Karai tipped them off about Shredder being alive (since the reason they went to the subway in the first place was to hide from the Foot).

Like I said, though, this is just fanwank on my part, and it's notable that Turtles Forever seems to place the first three films and the fourth in different continuities, despite the shrine at the end and there being no real reason it can't fit.

[Galactus]

Well originally The Next Mutation was the title to a proposed 4th TMNT film in 1994. Due to the low ticket sales & overall crap quality of the third film it was canned then later picked up as a TV due to it being cheaper & potentially better for marketing toys & the like.

The Next Mutation movie was an entirely different concept which just happened to share the same name as what would later be a tv series. One of many concepts Kevin & Peter were working on this had the turtles and Splinter go through a secondary mutations and gain weird powers.

After the tv series was canned there was talk about a movie based on the Next Mutation tv series as well as a "City at War" which incorported Venus and Next Mutation cartoon. Of course whether this is just rumour or not and if true how true is obviously up for debate.

As for the original question...to be be honest you can go back and forth with arguments of whether it's movie continuity or not. The certainly plenty of valid arguments to support both viewpoints.

Same lair from the movies, Mike not having his chuks due to giving the to Mitsu etc and against you have Shredder being alive and not Super Shredder, no Tatsu, April, Casey, generaly different tone.

In the end you could probably neatly fit it into a new continuity that is similar to movies but not explicitly part of that canon just like the cgi movie. I really don't think anyone in a position of power gives a crap about it to ever incorporate it or any of the characters in anything else....so *shugs shoulders

[ToTheNines]

The show is also more "realistic" like the movies.

That is bullsh*t. Good point on everything else though.

it's notable that Turtles Forever seems to place the first three films and the fourth in different continuities, despite

Not neccessarily true. They showed about 6 or 7 different artists renditions of the Mirage Universe which is all in the same continuity regardless of artist/writer (except for the Mark Martin, Hedden/McWeeney, and Zulli stuff).

[johnboy3434]

Not neccessarily true. They showed about 6 or 7 different artists renditions of the Mirage Universe which is all in the same continuity regardless of artist/writer (except for the Mark Martin, Hedden/McWeeney, and Zulli stuff).

I stand corrected, then. I know it's sacrilege as a turtles fan, but I haven't been able to bring myself to read through the Mirage continuity. I read that there were a bunch of crossovers and one-shots and collecting them all (physically or otherwise) seemed like a ton of effort just to get the full story, especially since I heard that the story isn't even finished, yet.

[sdp]

Lets not forget that TMNT 2007 takes place around that era while the first movie clearly takes place sometime in the late 80s/very early 90s. The turtles being grown up by the time TNM airs is a logical timeline, TMNT 2007 not so much.

Overall the show now feels non-canon in general, almost as if it never happened.

No less non-canon than the archie and image series.And as non-canon as 2k3 since it'll never be referenced ever again. And now that Nick owns TMNT I'm sure Venus is not out of bounds anymore.


and against you have Shredder being alive and not Super Shredder, no Tatsu, April, Casey, generaly different tone.

Again Shredder got a worse death in the first movie and he survived no reason why super shredder couldn't survive such a wimpy death. He just got demutated at the end since his dose wasnt that big and he used it all up. Tatsu got taken by the police or killed by shredder for failing him. Not too big of plotholes really. Casey was set to appear in the second season and April cameos as a reporter in the first sedason. The tone is not that different from the first three movies. Its never as serious as the first movie but its never as goofy as the third movie. Closer to the second movie more than anything.

[johnboy3434]

Again Shredder got a worse death in the first movie and he survived no reason why super shredder couldn't survive such a wimpy death. He just got demutated at the end since his dose wasnt that big and he used it all up. Tatsu got taken by the police or killed by shredder for failing him. Not too big of plotholes really. Casey was set to appear in the second season and April cameos as a reporter in the first sedason. The tone is not that different from the first three movies. Its never as serious as the first movie but its never as goofy as the third movie. Closer to the second movie more than anything.

Err... one does not just spontaneously de-mutate. If we're grasping for a reason why he isn't Super Shredder, then say that the Foot members who rescued him gathered up the spilled donuts from construction site to help counter the ooze. It should have been clear to everyone watching that the donuts were supposed to do something to help the turtles in the fight, and the sight of Tokka and Rahzar de-mutated after the chaos was over would have filled in the blanks for observant Foot agents.

But really, the fact remains that, if TNM was indeed meant to continue from the films, it did a poor job of it. I am really interested in seeing that Eastman quote, though. In my mind, that would settle the whole thing, plot oddities or not.

[sdp]

I don't think there is an Eastman quote, besides the fail concepts of a TNM movie. We'll never get a confirmation but you can tell it was meant to be by watching it. Its the best you'll get.

[Andrew NDB]

Hmm... so there's never really been official confirmation one way or the other?

Yes. From Eastman, www.ninjaturtles.com, and pretty much a ton of press releases at the time.

[MrPliggins]

The only reason TNM was made was because Venus was in it. It was Fox's ultimatum for Kevin and Peter; have a 5th female turtle or no show. They reluctantly agreed. The fourth movie was going to have a 5th turtle, but not Venus.

[Koi]

The only reason TNM was made was because Venus was in it. It was Fox's ultimatum for Kevin and Peter; have a 5th female turtle or no show. They reluctantly agreed. The fourth movie was going to have a 5th turtle, but not Venus.

KIRBY!

Well anyhow

Not neccessarily true. They showed about 6 or 7 different artists renditions of the Mirage Universe which is all in the same continuity regardless of artist/writer (except for the Mark Martin, Hedden/McWeeney, and Zulli stuff).

Arn't all the pictures shown just different dimmesions? So it could be like the temporal dimension of thought thing going on. So it doesn't really matter how canon it was in that sense.

[johnboy3434]

Yes. From Eastman, www.ninjaturtles.com (http://www.ninjaturtles.com), and pretty much a ton of press releases at the time.

I looked through that site and found no such confirmation. Could you point me to it?

[ToTheNines]

No less non-canon than the archie and image series.And as non-canon as 2k3 since it'll never be referenced ever again. And now that Nick owns TMNT I'm sure Venus is not out of bounds anymore.

You guys have an erroneuos definition of "canon".

I am really interested in seeing that Eastman quote, though. In my mind, that would settle the whole thing, plot oddities or not.

To me, it wouldn't. While Kevin did add some creative input into the movies, he did not write or direct... so while Kevins opinion on Mirage Comics canon may hold signifigant meaning to me, what he has to say about TMNT movies and TV shows does not.

[Cipher]

I've never heard any official word on it being a movie tie-in outside of very early press releases. As in, early enough for that element to have been downplayed or dropped by the time of airing.

Whatever vision Eastman originally had was clearly violated by studio involvement, censorship, and budget restraints anyway.

For my money, The Next Mutation is to the movies as TMNT Adventures is to the Fred Wolf cartoon. They share the same background and elements, but are not directly related in continuity.

And it is not, as sdp implied, because I have some burning hatred for the series and don't want it to connect to the movies. It's because there's nothing other than some aesthetic similarities (Splinter's ear, the subway lair) to imply they do connect, while there's tons of evidence implying they don't (Shredder being alive being by far the largest). Sure, you could go out of your way to explain the contradictions, but the series offers nothing on its own. You'd think if they were really pushing it in that direction, they'd give viewers at least a throw-away line or something.

[John Pannozzi]

BTW, exactly what episodes of The Next Mutation featured cameos by April as a reporter?

[ToTheNines]

BTW, exactly what episodes of The Next Mutation featured cameos by April as a reporter?

That's bull sh*t. There was one episode with a reporter wearing a yellow blouse.

Reference, yes. Cameo, no.

[Mindy]

With something as huge as TMNT, who *can* keep up with all that stuff anyways? (And I mean the creators/artists/writers, not fans with a lot of time and dedication). :P

[sdp]

while there's tons of evidence implying they don't (Shredder being alive being by far the largest).
Which are these "tons" of contradictions?
Shredder being alive does not count since how he survived the first movie is not explained either and people don't question that at all yet consider they don't debate the second movies canonicity.


That's bull sh*t. There was one episode with a reporter wearing a yellow blouse .

Reference, yes. Cameo, no.

Actually it was two (three?)times, and THAT is the definition of a cameo, if not then it'd be a "small guest appearance".


You guys have an erroneuos definition of "canon".

I don't, I was just explaining with his "canon" comment.

[GodzFire]

TMNT '07 was canon continuity, The Next Mutation was not and never will be.

Deal with it sdp.

Venus what? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that name. Long live 4 and only 4 Turtles.

[johnboy3434]

Actually it was two (three?)times, and THAT is the definition of a cameo, if not then it'd be a "small guest appearance".

What he's saying is that reporter + yellow blouse =/= April, no matter how many times she shows up.

And Shredder being alive and not mutated with no explanation is a strike against it being in the film's continuity, no matter how you spin it. Yeah, there's possible explanations, but the fact that you have to go hunting for them only confirms that it's a problem. What you have is Splinter's implied origin and the abandoned subway as turtle HQ. The Archie Comics universe had the entire pilot miniseries of the '87 cartoon in its continuity, but anyone could tell you that it is demonstrably separate from said cartoon.

Just because something shares specific elements with another continuity does not mean it is part of said continuity. And tonal similarities are the weakest of all ties, because plenty of series have changed tone significantly without switching continuities. That's why TMNT could easily be considered a sequel to the '90s films, despite the references to aliens and such in the prequel comic. Besides, the first three films gave us slime that can somehow give animals sapience and completely alter their physical structures, "antidotes" that can somehow reverse the effects of said slime, as well as an antique staff that can act as a time machine. You're telling me that aliens and interdimensional monsters are out of place in a world like that?

Venus what? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that name. Long live 4 and only 4 Turtles.

Okay, I know sdp is annoying, but there's no need to go all elitist like that. Venus was a stupid, stupid creative decision, but pulling this "pretending she doesn't exist" BS only succeeds in making you like a huge dork.

[sdp]

^^^^^

TMNT 2 is not in continuity with the first movie since Shredder is alive in it while he is clearly crushed in the first movie after falling off a building that was several stories high. not to mention no sign of Casey.

TMNT 3 is not in continuity because Tatsu doesn't show up.


TMNT '07 was canon continuity, The Next Mutation was not and never will be.

Deal with it sdp.

Venus what? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that name. Long live 4 and only 4 Turtles.

Except TMNT 07 is clearly not and the director even said it wasn't.

TNM was clearly meant to be a continuation however even if it wasn't official.

Also nothing wrong with Venus, she was ironically the most interesting thing out of TNM.

You can think what you want but in the end there are more connections and less contradictions to the live action movies in NT:TNM than TMNT 2007.

What he's saying is that reporter + yellow blouse =/= April, no matter how many times she shows up.

Its clearly a cameo, the camera focused on her for a few seconds the times it happened. But I guess by your logic Professor X did not cameo in X-Men Origins and it was just some bald guy in a wheelchair.


Okay, I know sdp is annoying

I'm annoying because you don't like my opinion?

Oh and the Archie analogy doesn't work here since that universe clearly went on a different direction and became its own beast. The movies just ended and the show continued from there.

[johnboy3434]

TMNT 2 is not in continuity with the first movie since Shredder is alive in it while he is clearly crushed in the first movie after falling off a building that was several stories high. not to mention no sign of Casey.

Yeah, you're right... except for the fact that you're wrong in every conceivable way. They referenced the fact that he fell into a garbage truck. You see him struggle out of a pile of garbage. And most importantly, everyone THINKS he's dead. They acknowledge that he suffered an obviously fatal blow, but that he's back anyway. TNM pretends nothing happened. TMNT3 shares a lot of the cast and crew of the first two films, and that combined with the lack of even potential contradictions, the subway station, and the number in the title is enough for a good faith assumption.

TNM references NOTHING of the events from the film trilogy, outside of a scar on Splinter's ear and an abandoned subway station, and those aren't even events, just set dressing that carries the connotation of events. That's pretty weak as far as connections go. When Shredder shows up in the pilot, no one is surprised that he's alive. No one is surprised that he's not mutated. It's business as usual with no explanation, and that is a HUGE strike against it being in the same continuity. Expecting viewers to fill in blanks that gargantuan is not reasonable. End of discussion.

Its clearly a cameo, the camera focused on her for a few seconds the times it happened. But I guess by your logic Professor X did not cameo in X-Men Origins and it was just some bald guy in a wheelchair.

I didn't say I agreed with him. I just said that was his point, and that you misunderstood it. I would probably agree that it was intended to be April, even if the lack of ANYONE mentioning her name is reason enough to be skeptical.

[sdp]

Yeah, you're right... except for the fact that you're wrong in every conceivable way. They referenced the fact that he fell into a garbage truck. You see him struggle out of a pile of garbage. And most importantly, everyone THINKS he's dead. They acknowledge that he suffered an obviously fatal blow, but that he's back anyway. TNM pretends nothing happened. TMNT3 shares a lot of the cast and crew of the first two films, and that combined with the lack of even potential contradictions, the subway station, and the number in the title is enough for a good faith assumption.
TNM doesn't pretend nothing happened, the show takes place years after their original adventures and aren't teenagers anymore. Its been a while so you don't expect them to explain that. They do mention they've defeated Shredder before and when they defeat him in the pilot they mention something along the lines of if he's gone for good this time.
Its not that big of a plothole that can't be resolved with a simple explanation. Even Tokka/Rahzar were demutated in that same movie. In fact I know a lot of us as kids didn't think Shredder died with that and when the hand moved we thought he'd come out for an epic final showdown and not just be defeated without even fighting the turtles. Heck the OT has bigger plotholes than that.



TNM references NOTHING of the events from the film trilogy, outside of a scar on Splinter's ear and an abandoned subway station, and those aren't even events, just set dressing that carries the connotation of events. That's pretty weak as far as connections go. When Shredder shows up in the pilot, no one is surprised that he's alive. No one is surprised that he's not mutated. It's business as usual with no explanation, and that is a HUGE strike against it being in the same continuity. Expecting viewers to fill in blanks that gargantuan is not reasonable. End of discussion.


Well like I said the show takes place many years after, thats the basis of the show that they aren't teenagers anymore. It doesn't reference the film trilogy but the show was made as a continuation this is very clear when watching the show. If you don't want to consider it ok, no big deal but like I said TNM has more connections to the trilogy than the fourth movie does.

[ToTheNines]

Its clearly a cameo, the camera focused on her for a few seconds the times it happened. But I guess by your logic Professor X did not cameo in X-Men Origins and it was just some bald guy in a wheelchair.

Wow, you're a tool. Of course the camera focused on her... have you ever seen a f***ing newscast that did not focus on the reporter?

That's like saying Manny Ramirez is copying Joe DiMaggio just because he's right handed.

[Andrew NDB]

I looked through that site and found no such confirmation. Could you point me to it?

You'll need to use the Wayback Machine and look at it circa 1997 and 1998 or so.

[Andrew NDB]

Well like I said the show takes place many years after, thats the basis of the show that they aren't teenagers anymore.

No it's not. It was openly said an in multiple places that the Turtles in TNM are 17... putting them only one year older than they were in TMNT 1-3.

[Powder]

Wow SDP, get over it. 2 & 3 are in fact in continuity with the first film, hence the term 'sequels'. Shredder was NOT crushed, obviously, only his helmet was. That was made pretty clear when he was shown alive repairing ONLY his helmet. The lack of a character does not constitute an 'out of continuity' assessment, by the way. The films (at least the first two for fact) take place within a few days of eachother so GOD FORBID Casey takes some time to recoup from his having been beat the hell up by master swordsman Toshishiro Obata. As for the third movie, ya boy Casey is feeling better & maybe, just maybe, Tatsu was in FREAKIN' JAIL... WHERE HE OUGHTTA BE.

Your 'theories' stem solely from personal preferance. You make up what you see fit. April did NOT cameo, she was referanced. Bebop did NOT cameo in 2k3, he was referanced just the same as Rocksteady (in human form) was in that common thug Gen meets. See these were simply 'shoutouts' to older fans, if you will.

TNM was NOT obviously a continuation of the films. I don't see how you can argue that the archie universe isn't a fitting example. It sure as hell is. The reason you say it isn't is because it was at one point based on the toon but stretched its branches into its own universe. They had archie exclusive villains, different story arcs, & sometimes, different personality traits in characters then what we knew. So, TNM didn't do that? Dragonlord, Wick, Bonesteel, Vam Mi, Silver, these are your exclusive villains. Vam Mi's missing heart saga, learning chinese magic, dealing with the mafia, these are your different story arcs. Splinter was a babbling fool, Donatello was Mr. tech as he was in the toon, Mikey was an uber annoying foul breathed numbskull who was played out in a horribly inaccurate way (like in 2k3), & Shredder was WEAK. What are those? Different personality traits that are contradictory to their movie counterparts. I think this makes TNM "A Beast of its own" if I remember correctly.

I'd say your "Archie is a bad example" statement has just been shattered, dude.

At no point whatsoever do the turtles of TNM referance their past. They contradict their bloodline, Shredder is miraculously de-mutated (and don't you give me that 'small dose' crap. That sh*t, realistically, would not have been reverseable without aid) & April doesn't exist. IF you DO consider her an existing character, then they don't know who she is & that would be the biggest contradiction of all.

You are merely basing your opinion on plot holes which you've chosen to fill with your own imagination. I'll give you points for creativity, some of them could almost work, but you're REACHING. Badly.

[ToTheNines]

To loosely reference a piece of dialouge from TNM...

Splinter: "Shredder, we have batttled hundreds of times in the past"

That really throws it out of the movie continuity.

(and don't you give me that 'small dose' crap. That sh*t, realistically, would not have been reverseable without aid)

Johnboy gave a good example though: The Foot could have picked up the box of doughnuts with the retro-mutagen cubes in them.

[Powder]

Johnboy gave a good example though: The Foot could have picked up the box of doughnuts with the retro-mutagen cubes in them.


Yeah, key word being COULD though. You can find anything if you look hard enough for it. Reaching doesn't deem TNM a continuation.

[johnboy3434]

Yeah, key word being COULD though. You can find anything if you look hard enough for it. Reaching doesn't deem TNM a continuation.

Yeah, that was just some fanwank on my part. I made up the whole scenario on the assumption that it was a continuation, not that everything was meant to be that way. Really, the more one thinks about it, the more obvious it becomes that TNM was just meant to be its own thing, with fan-friendly nods towards previous continuities.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah, key word being COULD though. You can find anything if you look hard enough for it. Reaching doesn't deem TNM a continuation.

I certainly agree, I was just pointing out a more clever explanation than "he only took a small dose".

[Andrew NDB]

TNM was wholly intended to be a continuation from its very genesis. I know that bothers a lot of you with a lot of love for those movies that TNM could possibly be an extension of that universe... but it's the truth.

[Candy Kappa]

does splinter have a damaged ear in TMNT? they look fine in various clips on youtube (the movie have little re-watch value to skim through just for that) and the action figure have both ears intact.

but his ear is damaged in TNM, and shredder looks like he have a scar, or he's just wrinkly. Horrible quality on youtube.

it's been a while since I had a see through the TMN show, but after 5 min.... It's the worst show I have ever seen, crap after crap after crap. stupid puns, costumes at low rent quality, the acting..... ugh!

the idea, the pitch for TMN was a continuation for the movies, but somewhere down the line it just got muddied up, and really is just up for personal taste, and what you let fly with the inconsistency.

for me I see it as a alternative version using the three movies as a (loose) basis.
in the same sense as Archie shares the first OT season, they have similarities, but are vastly different.

[sdp]

Most of you haven't even watched the show in its entirely to really judge if its in continuity or not.

The OT and NT also have things that aren't explained and people need to come up with explanations, this is nothing new. Its clear the show is intended to be after the movies, I don't understand why you guys are so butthurt over it and take it so personal. But hey Venus sucks right :roll:

Oh btw before watching the series I placed it in its own universe but that changed last year when I saw the show.

No it's not. It was openly said an in multiple places that the Turtles in TNM are 17... putting them only one year older than they were in TMNT 1-3.

Really? I don't remember where but I've read a synopsis saying the turtles were now older and more attitude or some crap like that. I also believe they mention they've been in adventures for years in the show or something like it.


but after 5 min.... It's the worst show I have ever seen, crap after crap after crap. stupid puns, costumes at low rent quality, the acting..... ugh!


Well 5 minutes is not a good way to judge a show, the show while not great is pretty decent. I definitely enjoyed it more than the Archie comics at least.

[ToTheNines]

Most of you haven't even watched the show in its entirely to really judge if its in continuity or not.

I have every episode on DVD and have seen them all... which is why I put up that quote of Splinter saying he and Shredder have fought hundreds of times (which makes it impossible to take place in the movie universe).

[Candy Kappa]

Well 5 minutes is not a good way to judge a show, the show while not great is pretty decent. I definitely enjoyed it more than the Archie comics at least.

you should have read the first part, I've seen the whole season.

it's far from a decent show, I have no grudge about Venus, it's the show itself

[Andrew NDB]

Really? I don't remember where but I've read a synopsis saying the turtles were now older and more attitude or some crap like that.

They are older in it... by a year. And yeah, I read the same stuff... "These Turtles are grittier, angrier, blah blah blah."

A look at the TNM Episode Listing for Episode 1 on www.ninjaturtles.com says they're 17. I know I saw that elsewhere, too.

I have every episode on DVD and have seen them all... which is why I put up that quote of Splinter saying he and Shredder have fought hundreds of times (which makes it impossible to take place in the movie universe).

How do you know how many times the Turtles fought Shredder in the year between TMNT II and NT:TNM? They obviously weren't surprised that he was alive in NT:TNM, so there must have been at least one other altercation between them.

[ToTheNines]

How do you know how many times the Turtles fought Shredder in the year between TMNT II and NT:TNM? They obviously weren't surprised that he was alive in NT:TNM, so there must have been at least one other altercation between them.

I'm no math mathematican but I'd venture to say "100's of times" > "at least one".