"Not that many people like Star Trek..." :o

[Jester]

So I was on IMDB the other day and saw a link to the entire run of ST:TNG on DVD that ran for $400, which seemed a bit pricey. I mentioned it to my wife and she said, "Not that many people like Star Trek..." I just looked at her, my jaw dropped. Really? They don't have conventions for nothing. Am I wrong here?

[ToTheNines]

Hmmm, Star Trek has alot of hardcore fans. But it's not as "universal" as say Star Wars or even TMNT.

[Roseangelo]

Hmmm, Star Trek has alot of hardcore fans. But it's not as "universal" as say Star Wars or even TMNT.

Star Trek is WAY bigger than TMNT is, has been, or ever will be.

[XERO]

I have never met a Trekkie in my life. Ever. :|

[愛]

Star Trek sucks. :)

[Ninjinister]

Why do so many people think TMNT is bigger than it is?

[Eiko]

My husband loves Star Trek he just not a collector. But a lot of people are collectors and a lot of them prob already have the entire Star Trek run on DVD.

[GK Punk]

I have never met a Trekkie in my life. Ever. :|

Hi. Nice to meet ya.

[Brodie]

Star Trek is WAY bigger than TMNT is, has been, or ever will be.

This is entirely true.

I dig Star Trek movies. The show, for some reason, i find really boring. The movies tend to be funny and endearing, but I can't bring myself to ever fathom spending money on the tv show.

[XERO]

Hi. Nice to meet ya.

I meant in RL, ya dunce.

Nice to meet you, too, though. :P

[ToTheNines]

Star Trek is WAY bigger than TMNT is, has been, or ever will be.

Well when I wear TMNT shirts to parties, the mall, amusement parks, etc. people always take notice and say something. I don't own any Star Trek garb, but I can't imagine it being a conversation starter.

The way I see it...
Star Trek: Way more hardcore fans, very few casual fans
TMNT: Way more casual fans, very few hardcore fans

[XERO]

I bet it's HELL at a Trek Forum, though.

[GK Punk]

Not true, I've gone places with either my Brother or a friend of mine wearing Star Trek shirts and they ALWAYS get comments from other fans.

[XERO]

Well, the shirts are cool. :)

[Ninjinister]

And ya'lls are wearing red ones.

Oh shi-

[Cure]

Well when I wear TMNT shirts to parties, the mall, amusement parks, etc. people always take notice and say something. I don't own any Star Trek garb, but I can't imagine it being a conversation starter.

That doesn't really prove anything, homie. Face it, no matter how you spin it, it's not hard to see that Star Trek is bigger.

[XERO]

Beam me the F*CK up, Ninji.

[TheCanadiandrome]

ah Star Trek. i keep hearing that there might not be another movie (cause Rodenberry's widow died or something), than i hear there is going to be another movie.

[gobo]

So I was on IMDB the other day and saw a link to the entire run of ST:TNG on DVD that ran for $400, which seemed a bit pricey.
http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2009/09/22/1253637561-admiral_ackbar.jpg
BAM! (http://dvdpricesearch.com/cgi-bin/dvdcalc2?cmd=calc&tmpCart=73783)

Good thing for your wallet that I got yo back, Endentured Clown. 8)

[Raph's Girl]

I bet it's HELL at a Trek Forum, though.

No it's not. It's fun. Sure it's died down a bit over the years but with the new movie series things are picking up. Some new fans are coming in and all sorts of fun stuff.

I once went to Vegas just to meet folks from a Star Trek chat room (a chat room that I've been going to for almost 13 years now) at the ST Experience. That was a totally awesome and fun weekend. :D

[Spitfire]

My Dad is/was a big Star Trek fan. He got out of it until the new movie came out then he decided to rent the first series on bluray. He watched it as a kid so it has a certain charm to it for him. He admits most of the episodes are crap but he showed me a few he thought held up somewhat save for some legendarily bad special effects. Some of the social commentary was interesting if not a bit forced.

When I was a kid I used to watch Next Generation and Voyager with him. I never really got into it. I imagine if I showed him a bunch of OT episodes I liked he would probably have the same response to them that I do to Star Trek.

Best thing about Star Trek, for me anyways.
http://sectorvids.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gorn.jpg

[Sewer Bull]

I mentioned it to my wife and she said, "Not that many people like Star Trek..." I just looked at her, my jaw dropped. Really?

I sense a divorce afoot.

[gobo]

http://sectorvids.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gorn.jpg
"Look into my eyes and I shall infect you with disco fever. @_@"

[Koi]

My friend can speak Klingon, it is pretty cool I seriously know more Trekkers then turtle fans... How come TMNT fans don't have a cool nickname like Star Trek fans? Trekkers, trekkies.

[Andrew NDB]

Star Trek is WAY bigger than TMNT is, has been, or ever will be.

Yup. Even at its "peak," TMNT is just a pimple on the face of a juggernaut franchise like Star Trek.

[Jester]

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2009/09/22/1253637561-admiral_ackbar.jpg
BAM! (http://dvdpricesearch.com/cgi-bin/dvdcalc2?cmd=calc&tmpCart=73783)

Good thing for your wallet that I got yo back, Endentured Clown. 8)
I didn't say I was gonna buy it, Gobes. :D

[gobo]

But, you did suggest you were thinking about it. I just don't wanna let you spend away your nest egg unnecessarily, yo.

...

Then again, you could always get a factory sealed copy from me for $350. Wha'd ya say? ^_^

[Jester]

I think I'll pass. Still out of my price range.

[gobo]

I think I'll pass. Still out of my price range.
*facepalm* I was joking. The link I gave ya shows it's $252.50 + free shipping at DeepDiscount. I'd never overcharge ya that much, buddy.

[Jester]

Hey, this is the internet....:D

[shuriken]

My friend can speak Klingon, it is pretty cool I seriously know more Trekkers then turtle fans... How come TMNT fans don't have a cool nickname like Star Trek fans? Trekkers, trekkies.

probably because TMNT is so damn long. I dunno how about Shell Heads? too derivitive? Turtleis? Too cliche? Tortugeuros? I dunno...
Anyways there are bunch of trekkies I know. some that do speak Klingon to each other. One even has a few Klingon shakespeare books. Some people go all out man.

[Raph's Girl]

One even has a few Klingon shakespeare books. Some people go all out man.

I have a couple Klingon - English dictionaries. Haven't gotten the Shakespear books but I have read the Bible in Klingon. The Klingon Language Institute has done alot over the years. Klingon's considered to be an actual language.
http://www.kli.org/

As for what TMNT fans are called.... How about TMNTphiles?

[Digital Ghost]

I love modern Star Trek. TNG, Voyager, etc...
I'm not a collector of anything Star Trek mind you, aside from episodes & movies.
I know a lot about the story, technology, ship classes, et al. :)

[shuriken]

As for what TMNT fans are called.... How about TMNTphiles?

Yeah the problem with that is it lends itself to misinterpretation. Like tmnt-files as opposed to TMNTphiles ya know?
Either way TMNT fans isn't too bad.

[discordiatookie]

Yeah the problem with that is it lends itself to misinterpretation. Like tmnt-files as opposed to TMNTphiles ya know?
Either way TMNT fans isn't too bad.

The only misinterpretation that I get from 'TMNTphiles', is the association with the other word that ends in 'phile', as in pedo. Folk would probably think we get off on touching turtles, or something.

[ToTheNines]

Uh.... Dromies?

[XERO]

How about 'da Crooked Ninja Turtle Gang'?

[CyberCubed]

Star Trek is huge. Seriously, is this a joke? What sci-fi series other than Star Wars was ever a threat to its popularity?

Why do you think it spawned 5 successful series, almost 1000 total episodes with all 5 series combined, and around/over 10 movies?

Star Trek has gone on for 40 years. There's no way it can be downplayed.

[gobo]

*preachin to the choir*
:blanksta: Someone needs to sharpen his reading comprehension skills.

[Vivi]

Star Trek is huge, how many tv shows get a documentary made on the (somewhat crazy) fans? This may be biased, but ST:TNG has to be the best incarnation, not only for Patrick Stewart, but also for Brent Spiner and Wil Wheaton.

[The Shelf]

This may be biased, but ST:TNG has to be the best incarnation, not only for Patrick Stewart, but also for Brent Spiner and Wil Wheaton.

:o :lol:

Please tell me this part was a joke. Wil Wheaton was kind of annoying. At best he was tolerable.

I would agree that TNG was probably the best, although I really liked Voyager too.

[Roseangelo]

I would agree that TNG was probably the best, although I really liked Voyager too.

I love Voyager. It is very under-rated and gets a lot of crap that it doesn't deserve.

TNG is by far the best, though it has nothing to do with Wil Wheaton (but I did have a crush on him when the show first aired).

[CyberCubed]

Deep Space Nine was by far the best written with the best ongoing plot.

About two or so years ago I watched all of Deep Space Nine in order, and it amazed me how good it was. I now understand why it was considered the best Trek, when previously I always thought Next Generation was the best.

If you never watched DS9 or saw very little of it, you need to sit down and watch it in chronological order. Its as good as most Trek gets.

[Candy Kappa]

http://www.goodgodforus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/m-spocka.jpg

best ST character ever, Picard second

[gobo]

http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/f/fa/Spiner_as_Data.jpg
This guy's gotta be on the list too, right?

[CyberCubed]

I think "classic" Star Trek was way too sophisticated and intelligent for the average TV watcher. Not to say Trek didn't also have its usual dumb episodes from time to time, but you have to have a very high I.Q. to appreciate Star Trek.

[IMJ]

I think "classic" Star Trek was way too sophisticated and intelligent for the average TV watcher. Not to say Trek didn't also have its usual dumb episodes from time to time, but you have to have a very high I.Q. to appreciate Star Trek.

Ehhh.... maybe not a very high I.Q. but if you are a thinker and can be entertained by the character dramas and small morality plays without needing force SJW messaging then TOS through Enterprise is for you.

Discovery is straight up for the angry, counter-culture audience that needs emotional soap opera-ing and cheerleading for "survival" and life goals. Discovery, honest-to-God, is in many ways more of a parody of Star Trek than the Orville is. Now, understanding that statement? That will take some I.Q. to understand....

[oldmanwinters]

hihEhsdwiIk

[Coola Yagami]

Ehhh.... maybe not a very high I.Q. but if you are a thinker and can be entertained by the character dramas and small morality plays without needing force SJW messaging then TOS through Enterprise is for you.



Sadly that qualifies as high IQ nowadays....

[CyberCubed]

In the third episode of next generation, they find an alien race of black africans who look just like humans. And the females (Yar and the black woman) have a battle to the death in the episode. Would that episode be considered "woke" if it happened today instead of 1987?

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think you need high IQ to appreciate morality lessons.

[sdp]

I've only ever watched the reboot Star Trek film, I even watched it another time to force myself to like it. It was as boring and uninteresting as I assumed the franchise was. I remember as a little kid seeing the playmates toys and knowing that only NERDS bought that crap. Anyone admitting to it likely got beat up after school.

Star Trek is WAY bigger than TMNT is, has been, or ever will be.

bigger in what way?
Pop culture and worldwide recognition? Certainly not.
Profitability? Perhaps, do we have official figures of either franchise? I would think that despite Trek having a bunch of movies and having a dedicated fanbase might not match all the money TMNT made during turtle mania alone in terms of licensing. But that's just a guess.
Dedicated fanbase? Perhaps dedicated and organized but I doubt it has as many people as the hundreds of facebook tmnt groups that exist all over the world alone. I'm sure they have forums more active than the drome but I don't know if they have as many fans, trekkies are dedicated but TMNT has millions of casual fans.

[IMJ]

Sadly that qualifies as high IQ nowadays....

Exactly.

I don't think you need high IQ to appreciate morality lessons.

Exactly. Star Trek has always been these small, science fiction morality plays across episodes. There was justice and equality but it wasn't this crammed down your throat woke nonsense like Discovery.

bigger in what way?
Pop culture and worldwide recognition? Certainly not.

I think it might be, man....

[sdp]

In the US it was rare to see Star Trek fans, I know it's big because of all the books and shows and stuff but at least it's never been a huge draw for "casuals", and in other countries I've lived star trek is a super niche thing, no one knows what it is, but they certainly know TMNT, even if just casually "ah yah that's for kids, i don't like it' while star trek might get replies like "i don't know what that is"

[CyberCubed]

Pretty sure Star Trek is one of the biggest IP's in the world besides Star Wars and DC and Mickey Mouse.

[IMJ]

Pretty sure Star Trek is one of the biggest IP's in the world besides Star Wars and DC and Mickey Mouse.

Ummmm.... yeah. Pretty much.
The "rare to see Star Trek fans" thing above.... just not sure about that perspective at all.....

[CyberCubed]

I think sdp originally lived in Mexico before moving to the U.S. Maybe Star Trek isn't that big with the hispanics south of the border?

[Leo656]

Ummmm.... yeah. Pretty much.
The "rare to see Star Trek fans" thing above.... just not sure about that perspective at all.....

Saxon = Joke Account

[CyberCubed]

The original series was literally a pop culture phenomenon in the 60's and introduced tons of people to sci-fi a decade before Star Wars. (Remember Star Wars didn't come out till 1977).

Next Generation was literally one of the most popular shows of the late 80's and early 90's. Deep Space Nine is considered one of the best sci-fi shows of all time. Let alone Voyager and Enterprise although they were less popular still had long runs.

You don't have 5 series come out in an almost continuous span (if you count TOS movies and cartoon, there's an even smaller gap between TOS and Next Gen in 1987), without it. I can't think of any other franchise that had 5 TV shows on the air almost continuously in the same universe one after the other like this.

[Andrew NDB]

Let's put it this way. Peter Laird sold the ENTIRETY of the TMNT rights for 60 million (compare against George Lucas selling the entirety of Star Wars for 4 BILLION... granted, Star Trek is not nearly as popular as Star Wars culturally, but that gives you some glimpse of comparisons). That's less than even the sh*ttiest Star Trek movie made, and there's been 13 of them. Combined with 4 syndicated shows of over 400 episodes, whatever they made in action figures/toys/ship sales... it's not even CLOSE to TMNT even at TMNT's height.

[newfan]

I remember reading that the idea for the first Star Trek movie came because of the success of Star Wars, not sure if it was entirely that.

[Andrew NDB]

I remember reading that the idea for the first Star Trek movie came because of the success of Star Wars, not sure if it was entirely that.

I think it was 2001: A Space Odyssey if anything. Though maybe the success of Star Wars moved the money along a little faster.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

When I can run into Klingons at a Ren faire, but never a Ninja Turtle, PRETTY sure Trek tops TMNT in popularity. And these were full makeup, costume, batleth and all Klingons.

[CyberCubed]

The only way I can people not being aware how huge Star Trek is:

1. You grew up in a foreign country that didn't have Star Trek aired on TV

2. You're a zoomer who grew up in the mid-2000's (and that's not anyone here, since almost everyone here is around 30 years old or older), long after the peak of the series and after Enterprise ended.


Kirk and Spock are literally pop culture icons.

[newfan]

I remember loosing an argument once with someone over who between Kirk and Spock stood out more to non-Trek fans, I thought it would be Spock (though really looking back I might not think the same, pretty joint though) Anyway I went into to work and asked the office 'those who don't care about Star Trek, when I say Star Trek what's the first thing (besides some insulting choice words) that comes to mind' They all said Captain Kirk, don't remember if I went back and told the person they were right :D

So far as the title of the thread, I mean if we are comparing with the number of people everywhere who don't care about it then yeah fans will be the the smaller number but given all the content and amount of conventions obviously a lot of people like it. Not sure how it sits with the youngest generation or how Discovery is doing though. (still not watched that myself)

[sdp]

I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, it just isn't as well known as other franchises or as recognizable as others and not that relevant worldwide.
Tarzan was a huge property, people will know who he is, but is he bigger than TMNT? Certainly in being recognizable but at this stage most people know him because of parodies and Tarzan isn't doing the same amount of money as TMNT. It's a relic of the past.

Yeah, star trek has shows, so there's money to be made there and a dedicated audience. but I don't think it's that big, hell this topic exists because of that very reason. "Not that many people like star trek..." and I agree.

Let's put it this way. Peter Laird sold the ENTIRETY of the TMNT rights for 60 million. That's less than even the sh*ttiest Star Trek movie made, and there's been 13 of them. Combined with 4 syndicated shows of over 400 episodes, whatever they made in action figures/toys/ship sales... it's not even CLOSE to TMNT even at TMNT's height.

By that logic the Platinum Dunes TMNT movie is worth 4 times more than TMNT since it made that much more money than what Nick bought it for. You're comparing apples and oranges.

DO we know how much they've made in licensing from star trek? I'm sure it's plenty but is it TMNT fad big? It doesn't require a lot to keep a franchise from making books and model kits, different business model than mass retail. I mean perhaps Star Trek does make more from licensing, I don't know the numbers but I somehow doubt it.

The only way I can people not being aware how huge Star Trek is:

1. You grew up in a foreign country that didn't have Star Trek aired on TV

2. You're a zoomer who grew up in the mid-2000's (and that's not anyone here, since almost everyone here is around 30 years old or older), long after the peak of the series and after Enterprise ended.


Kirk and Spock are literally pop culture icons.
The original series was literally a pop culture phenomenon in the 60's and introduced tons of people to sci-fi a decade before Star Wars. (Remember Star Wars didn't come out till 1977).

Next Generation was literally one of the most popular shows of the late 80's and early 90's. Deep Space Nine is considered one of the best sci-fi shows of all time. Let alone Voyager and Enterprise although they were less popular still had long runs.

You don't have 5 series come out in an almost continuous span (if you count TOS movies and cartoon, there's an even smaller gap between TOS and Next Gen in 1987), without it. I can't think of any other franchise that had 5 TV shows on the air almost continuously in the same universe one after the other like this.

If a foreign country didn't have star trek then it means it isn't globally as well known as another property like say star wars.
I grew up in the 90s and knew of Star Trek's existence but it certainly wasn't a thing that appealed to me or any of my friends of elementary school age. It wasn't until high school that I knew of a "trekkie", granted I lived in a relatively small city in the midwest but there's no problems with most other franchises.
Yeah, people might know what Star Trek is, that's different from being fans of the franchise. I know who the monster of the black lagoon is, he is an icon but i've never seen a movie and i doubt people are making much money on that despite how iconic it may be, it's not bigger or profitable TMNT which was my original quote, despite perhaps more people recognizing that face.

Besides isn't star trek just running on fumes based off Star Trek and TNG and keep rehashing that same idea. The air bud series of movies had 14 movies, does that make it a huge franchise?

If zoomers can't recognize Star Trek much then perhaps it's for a reason, it hasn't been able to stay relevant.

[Leo656]

You literally only exist to post provably-wrong things.

The TMNT franchise would need a rocket up its metaphorical ass to come anywhere close to matching Star Trek's fanbase in either number or passion.

Star Trek fans at their most dedicated make countless fan films and shows. TMNT fans, at their most dedicated, write slash fiction. It's not even a contest.

[Coola Yagami]

Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing or hearing much about Star Trek back when I lived in Mexico. I think I caught episodes of Deep Space Nine (idk if that's one, the one with the female Captain where they're lost in space somewhere and are trying to get back?) on the American channels, which don't count lol. I seem to recall seeing the Generations movie too.

Idk I'm sure the new movies made it down there but I'm not sure about the actual series.

[CyberCubed]

I guess Star Trek isn't big in the Latin American countries? I wonder why hispanics don't like it, as far as I can tell they like Star Wars, anime, and DC/Marvel movies. Maybe the plots are too scientific for people?

It's weird you go south of the border and all of a sudden interests change, when those same people could live in the U.S. and it'd be no difference.

[IMJ]

Saxon = Joke Account

:lol::lol:

Oh yeah that's right.... I forgot. :lol:8)

[Coola Yagami]

I guess Star Trek isn't big in the Latin American countries? I wonder why hispanics don't like it, as far as I can tell they like Star Wars, anime, and DC/Marvel movies. Maybe the plots are too scientific for people?

It's weird you go south of the border and all of a sudden interests change, when those same people could live in the U.S. and it'd be no difference.

It's not so much don't like it, it just wasn't shown there. It's like there being some new anime that for whatever reason, was never shown here and people wondering why Americans don't like it.

[sdp]

Ok, Europe and Latinamerica and the midwest, so that's a good chunk of the world then.

Again I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, or people don't know what star trek is. I asked in what way Star Trek was bigger than TMNT. Pop culture and worldwide recognition? More people recognize the name Ninja Turtles, I'd definitely argue that, it's been more than 30 years, the kids who grew up with it all know what it is and the original parents who bought it for their kids in the 90s also know, that's a huge chunk of the population.

Profitability? I don't have numbers but with the cashcow that TMNT is and all the licensing deals it gets I don't see how it's any more.

And I was asking a question, I don't think it is but i've never been into trek and i've never really met people in real life besides one nerd in HS about it. I've lived in 3 different countries, and talked to geeks all the time and only have met trekkies online. Power Rangers has had shows and movies since it came out, that doesn't mean it's a huge brand, it's big and has been bigger the last few years now that it's finally nostalgic cool to like power rangers (https://miscrave.com/articles/power-rangers-are-cool/).

[IMJ]

Ok, Europe and Latinamerica and the midwest, so that's a good chunk of the world then.

Again I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, or people don't know what star trek is. I asked in what way Star Trek was bigger than TMNT. Pop culture and worldwide recognition? More people recognize the name Ninja Turtles, I'd definitely argue that, it's been more than 30 years, the kids who grew up with it all know what it is and the original parents who bought it for their kids in the 90s also know, that's a huge chunk of the population.

Profitability? I don't have numbers but with the cashcow that TMNT is and all the licensing deals it gets I don't see how it's any more.

And I was asking a question, I don't think it is but i've never been into trek and i've never really met people in real life besides one nerd in HS about it. I've lived in 3 different countries, and talked to geeks all the time and only have met trekkies online. Power Rangers has had shows and movies since it came out, that doesn't mean it's a huge brand, it's big and has been bigger the last few years now that it's finally nostalgic cool to like power rangers (https://miscrave.com/articles/power-rangers-are-cool/).

Here's a.... we will say quick and crude "google data" comparison. We could go MBA-deep on this but I'm not that vested in this topic. But here goes:

I.P.'s On T.V.
Star Trek = 7 Shows Since 1966 | I'm fairly confident all of them aired on primetime T.V. slots
TMNT = 5 Shows Since 1987 | I'm fairly confident that either none or one of them aired on primtime T.V. slots

I.P.'s On Film
Star Trek = 13 Theatrical Films | $2,266,907,732 Franchise Worldwide
TMNT = 6 Theatrical Films | $1,149,359,568 Franchise Worldwide

Now just from the heuristics involved here, these numbers speak quite a bit. Also note that Star Trek had comic book publication going as far back as Gold Key and spanned I think at least 4 different publishers. TMNT was an obscure publication nearly all the way through it's Mirage days.

The toy sales thing would be interesting. Without even looking it up, I'd imagine that Playmates TMNT outsold Playmates Trek, but right there you've got some comparison of sales from Playmates alone. Trek has had several action figure/toy lines and has a huge "high end collector" presence - I'd argue much greater than TMNT's.

You are using a metric of "word of mouth" recognition; but I mean.... I've never seen a TMNT-centered convention/show. Never. Trek is present everywhere and has a myriad of it's own convention gatherings worldwide.

I think the only place that TMNT has probably ever beat Trek would be specifically on sales of Playmates toys, of which quite frankly TMNT probably deserves the win there. Somebody inclined to argue or to try to look clever might observe something like "well Trek had twice as many movies and by the numbers if TMNT had 6 more movies it would surpass Trek at the Box Office." But see - that's just it - Trek has had 13 movies most which were born of the 80's and 90's. TMNT had three movies born of the 80's and 90's. Trek is simply the bigger franchise, no caveats. Someone could argue that Trek is "only bigger because it came first", which... doesn't matter, it's still bigger.

Also, I have no real stake in this. So replies building an argument against this as if I've woven an attack on TMNT? Please just go and do that idiot-savant $#!( somewhere else. Any other replies in discussion, absolutely invited.

[Andrew NDB]

You literally only exist to post provably-wrong things.

The TMNT franchise would need a rocket up its metaphorical ass to come anywhere close to matching Star Trek's fanbase in either number or passion.

Star Trek fans at their most dedicated make countless fan films and shows. TMNT fans, at their most dedicated, write slash fiction. It's not even a contest.

And let's not even compare TMNT conventions vs. Star Trek conventions. And cruises. And rides. lol...

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, it just isn't as well known as other franchises or as recognizable as others and not that relevant worldwide.
Tarzan was a huge property, people will know who he is, but is he bigger than TMNT? Certainly in being recognizable but at this stage most people know him because of parodies and Tarzan isn't doing the same amount of money as TMNT. It's a relic of the past.

Yeah, star trek has shows, so there's money to be made there and a dedicated audience. but I don't think it's that big, hell this topic exists because of that very reason. "Not that many people like star trek..." and I agree.



By that logic the Platinum Dunes TMNT movie is worth 4 times more than TMNT since it made that much more money than what Nick bought it for. You're comparing apples and oranges.

DO we know how much they've made in licensing from star trek? I'm sure it's plenty but is it TMNT fad big? It doesn't require a lot to keep a franchise from making books and model kits, different business model than mass retail. I mean perhaps Star Trek does make more from licensing, I don't know the numbers but I somehow doubt it.




If a foreign country didn't have star trek then it means it isn't globally as well known as another property like say star wars.
I grew up in the 90s and knew of Star Trek's existence but it certainly wasn't a thing that appealed to me or any of my friends of elementary school age. It wasn't until high school that I knew of a "trekkie", granted I lived in a relatively small city in the midwest but there's no problems with most other franchises.
Yeah, people might know what Star Trek is, that's different from being fans of the franchise. I know who the monster of the black lagoon is, he is an icon but i've never seen a movie and i doubt people are making much money on that despite how iconic it may be, it's not bigger or profitable TMNT which was my original quote, despite perhaps more people recognizing that face.

Besides isn't star trek just running on fumes based off Star Trek and TNG and keep rehashing that same idea. The air bud series of movies had 14 movies, does that make it a huge franchise?

If zoomers can't recognize Star Trek much then perhaps it's for a reason, it hasn't been able to stay relevant.


Dude, do you even KNOW how much merchandising and licensing Star Trek as a franchise HAS? There is literally Trek merch for EVERYTHING. Watches, costumes, face masks, cookbooks, figures, the list is endless. And fanbase? There are Star Trek conventions FOR A REASON. It is literally known and loved WORLDWIDE! The actors are celebrity icons! To the point that many went on to careers in acting in other movies and tv series BECAUSE of Star Trek. (Heck, there are probably very FEW people who HAVEN'T heard of Kirk, Spock, and probably Picard and Data AT LEAST, if one were to judge by the sheer number of memes alone!) And I'm sorry, but even zoomers know what Trek is, thanks to the reboot movies and Discovery, Picard, and other new material. Many have probably seen at least ONE of the older series on any number of broadcast cast channels that air them even now, or on multiple streaming services. As with the movies, as well. This is not a franchise "running on fumes". It has an actual exhibit in THE SMITHSONIAN! A cultural phenomenon that lasted decades, rather than just a few short years, as TMNT at its peak did. It has its own languages, culinary and cultural development, history and even coined the idea of the "Mirror-verse" that has since become a sci-fi trope.

There is literally NO CONTEST when it comes to which is more popular or well known. It's still just as relevant now- with three new movies and two new series released within the last six years, as it's ever been. TMNT has NEVER had that kind of relevance, save for the brief point in it's prime in the beginning of the 90s.

[Turo602]

How is this even comparable? Doesn't Star Trek lean more towards the "sweaty 30+ year old basement dwelling virgins" while TMNT is skewed more towards children? They occupy completely different facets of pop culture, so comparing TV slots, movies, and conventions just seems kind of weird. I've personally never met a single Star Trek fan my age nor have I ever really heard it be brought up in day to day conversations by anyone.

Star Trek by far has the more dedicated fanbase as that is pretty much the nature of anything sci-fi, but I don't know if I necessarily believe it's more culturally recognizable or more popular than Ninja Turtles. I feel like Ninja Turtles just has a far wider reach because it falls into the same category as stuff like Marvel and DC and therefore has a more casual and generic appeal across the board instead of one very large passionate group of fans.

[Sumac]

Star Trek is a cultural icon, which had an enormous influence on a real world.

TMNT, with all due respect, is a kid's franchise and while being phenomenon in its own right, it is nowhere near close to the popularity and influence of ST.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

How is this even comparable? Doesn't Star Trek lean more towards the "sweaty 30+ year old basement dwelling virgins" while TMNT is skewed more towards children? They occupy completely different facets of pop culture, so comparing TV slots, movies, and conventions just seems kind of weird. I've personally never met a single Star Trek fan my age nor have I ever really heard it be brought up in day to day conversations by anyone.

Star Trek by far has the more dedicated fanbase as that is pretty much the nature of anything sci-fi, but I don't know if I necessarily believe it's more culturally recognizable or more popular than Ninja Turtles. I feel like Ninja Turtles just has a far wider reach because it falls into the same category as stuff like Marvel and DC and therefore has a more casual and generic appeal across the board instead of one very large passionate group of fans.


The fact that Trek IS more of an adult franchise is exactly WHY it's so much bigger. Kids tend to grow out of their fandoms, thus TMNT has had a couple of short-lived flashpoints, as the kids of those generations aged out of it, but Trek is perennially popular. The same people who were fans 20 or 40 years ago, are STILL fans now, casual or not. And it is much more sophisticated story and theme wise (save a few bits here and there in the comics with TMNT) which means that it can be enjoyed by MULTIPLE generations and age groups, and cna and DOES provoke serious discussions and thoughts by fans.

[Galactus]

You literally only exist to post provably-wrong things.

The TMNT franchise would need a rocket up its metaphorical ass to come anywhere close to matching Star Trek's fanbase in either number or passion.

Star Trek fans at their most dedicated make countless fan films and shows. TMNT fans, at their most dedicated, write slash fiction. It's not even a contest.

To be fair making a fan film or show out of TMNT would difficult as hell. You could make a Casey Jones or April O'Neil or something of that nature but making something half decent looking that involved the turtles themselves would require much more that the average fan (even bolstered with the help of patreon) could afford.

Other than that I agree Star Trek is way bigger than TMNT. The franchise exists in an odd cultural space that most people have heard of it but few know much about it. Of those that do some people look at like a legitimate action adventure franchise like something from Marvel or DC whereas as other think of it more like the Muppet Babies.

[CyberCubed]

Star Trek fans were also like the first big fandom in the west, right? "Trekkies" were huge even before the internet, which is shocking because before the internet it was much harder to discuss your interests with people outside of conventions or whatever.

[Andrew NDB]

The fact that Trek IS more of an adult franchise is exactly WHY it's so much bigger. Kids tend to grow out of their fandoms, thus TMNT has had a couple of short-lived flashpoints

You're being unusually astute.

[Turo602]

The fact that Trek IS more of an adult franchise is exactly WHY it's so much bigger. Kids tend to grow out of their fandoms, thus TMNT has had a couple of short-lived flashpoints, as the kids of those generations aged out of it, but Trek is perennially popular. The same people who were fans 20 or 40 years ago, are STILL fans now, casual or not. And it is much more sophisticated story and theme wise (save a few bits here and there in the comics with TMNT) which means that it can be enjoyed by MULTIPLE generations and age groups, and cna and DOES provoke serious discussions and thoughts by fans.

But it's not about who has a more hardcore or long lasting fandom. People my age and younger don't really gravitate towards Star Trek in my experience. Ninja Turtles is a far more familiar franchise because so many people across multiple generations grew up with it and it becomes nostalgic for many when they grow older, which is the exact audience BayTurtles was trying to capture and it made more money than the Star Trek reboot.

Ninja Turtles has its diehard fans that will be fans forever too, just look around. But it is a lot smaller compared to Star Trek. But the key difference is, Ninja Turtles has more mainstream appeal. Things like Star Wars and Marvel used to be things only nerds liked, but now everyone loves it and Ninja Turtles is no different. However, I don't think the same can really be said for Star Trek. Yes, it was very influential at one point in time and still a part of pop culture and fans are very passionate about it, but most people still find Star Trek lame outside of diehards, which tend to be older people who liked Star Trek way back when.

[CyberCubed]

Trekkies were the first fandom. Old enough to pre-date Star Wars. People shipped Kirk and Spock in the 60's even.

It's weird people made fun of Star Trek fans all those years for liking their franchise, simply because it wasn't considered "socially acceptable" to like TV shows that way back then. It's really weird, for years Star Trek fans were considered losers with no lives who lived in their parents basement, when in reality they were perfectly normal people who just happened to like a TV show.

I have no idea why people were so mean spirited back then. Like what's wrong with adults watching a show? So damn weird people were discriminated against for that back then. Times have changed.

[Andrew NDB]

But the key difference is, Ninja Turtles has more mainstream appeal.

Not at all. TMNT has "mainstream appeal" to 5-15 year olds, at best. The rest are niche 30-40+ year old collectors and hobbyists and people like basically anyone on this forum who might comprise a... notable if not all that significant sales bottom line in collectibles/comics.

Star Trek has always had crossover appeal to children, but still captures a good portion of pretty much every other demographic. And they don't "grow out" of Star Trek. I really haven't heard of any one person who has said they were into Trek and then left it behind (at least, barring people who don't like everything since 2009... but even they -- like me -- will occasionally go back and rewatch old shows and still consider themselves "active" fans).

[Turo602]

Not at all. TMNT has "mainstream appeal" to 5-15 year olds, at best. The rest are niche 30-40+ year old collectors and hobbyists and people like basically anyone on this forum who might comprise a... notable if not all that significant sales bottom line in collectibles/comics.

Star Trek has always had crossover appeal to children, but still captures a good portion of pretty much every other demographic. And they don't "grow out" of Star Trek. I really haven't heard of any one person who has said they were into Trek and then left it behind (at least, barring people who don't like everything since 2009... but even they -- like me -- will occasionally go back and rewatch old shows and still consider themselves "active" fans).

As I've stated before, I haven't met a single Star Trek fan my age. So I don't really believe that Star Trek has much crossover appeal with children and teens and people like myself in their mid-twenties. I'm sure young fans do exist, but they'd have to be a very small minority because it certainly skipped a generation and I doubt kids and teens are just so excited about Star Trek these days. It certainly isn't marketed towards them and you'd have to be really searching for it to get access to it, that is if it's even appealing to them in the first place.

Ninja Turtles is just far more relatable to a younger audience and it's been around for generations. The fact that Star Trek fans stay fans kind of proves my point about its limited appeal today because those fans were more than likely nerds their whole life and Star Trek was their escape. That's where the hardcore lifelong passion comes from.

Whereas Ninja Turtles doesn't just appeal strictly to nerdy kids whose fandoms "saved them." They appealed to the cool kids before they were cool, they appealed to the dropouts, the gangbanger, the nerd, and the average kid and that's exactly why it comes and goes for so many people and it's not strictly TMNT either. But superheroes, cartoons, wrestling, video games and so forth. Their priorities in life as teenagers change and it isn't until those teens reach adulthood that they're the ones buying their kids Ninja Turtle toys and taking them to the movies to watch Ninja Turtles, and not just because the kids enjoy it, like your generation's parents did, but because they enjoy it too and they're okay with it because it's far more culturally acceptable now.

Star Trek may have been a cultural phenomenon back in the day and with great reason, but it definitely isn't as big in 2021 as it was before things like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Marvel, DC, Game of Thrones, and so on blew up and shared the same space as Star Trek and we all know superheroes and nostalgia are easily the biggest things in pop culture right now, and Ninja Turtles definitely skews more towards that than something like Star Trek.

Don't get me wrong though, this is all conjecture. I don't really know what the f*ck I'm talking about anyway and I don't think anyone can speak definitively about this, but I just don't think we're taking everything into consideration here. I feel like they're both niche franchises within their respective genres today and due to the nature of their success, aren't exactly comparable anyway. I just know that in my experience, Star Trek was never really relevant or "cool" yet Ninja Turtles is still quite popular with my demographic.

[CyberCubed]

According to your profile you're 26 years old, you're not that far off from the age gap of the second generation of Star Trek fans who grew up watching the shows in the 90's or early 2000's. You do realize Star Trek was relevant on TV through about 2005, right? That wasn't that long ago.

[Turo602]

According to your profile you're 26 years old, you're not that far off from the age gap of the second generation of Star Trek fans who grew up watching the shows in the 90's or early 2000's. You do realize Star Trek was relevant on TV through about 2005, right? That wasn't that long ago.

And I or anyone I know definitely wasn't watching it... Just because it exists doesn't mean it's relevant or popular with the young demographic. I heard more about Twilight than I ever have Star Trek.

[IMJ]

You're being unusually astute.

This gave me an honest chuckle here at the screen.... heh heh oh God.

But it's not about who has a more hardcore or long lasting fandom. People my age and younger don't really gravitate towards Star Trek in my experience.

This might be true. I'm not sure how old you are, but a big part of that is all of the quality Trek at this point could have been feasible airing before a lot of kids were born at this point.

Also, the current Trek on T.V. has not exactly been aimed at regular people - Discovery turned Trek into a counter-culture show completely.

Ninja Turtles is a far more familiar franchise because so many people across multiple generations grew up with it and it becomes nostalgic for many when they grow older, which is the exact audience BayTurtles was trying to capture and it made more money than the Star Trek reboot.

This point was either completely short sighted or a total straw man point of nonsense. "Turtles is a far more familiar franchise because so many people across multiple generations grew up with it". LMAO, Star Trek has spanned at least four generations of age groups, dude.

You are definitely speaking from your own lens here. Go back and look at post #73 on page 4 of the thread where nothing more than 3rd grade-level Google-Fu alone solves this debate.

Ninja Turtles has its diehard fans that will be fans forever too, just look around. But it is a lot smaller compared to Star Trek. But the key difference is, Ninja Turtles has more mainstream appeal.

If Ninja Turtles had more mainstream appeal then why has there never been a show on prime time T.V. where mainstream audiences view as a family? Why? Because it's a cartoon that doesn't have more mainstream appeal. TMNT has appeal to a demographic in kids viewing for the most part, outside of the outliers of the long time fans that will check out each iteration to see if it grabs them.

TMNT categorically does not have more mainstream appeal than Star Trek.

Things like Star Wars and Marvel used to be things only nerds liked, but now everyone loves it and Ninja Turtles is no different. However, I don't think the same can really be said for Star Trek. Yes, it was very influential at one point in time and still a part of pop culture and fans are very passionate about it, but most people still find Star Trek lame outside of diehards, which tend to be older people who liked Star Trek way back when.

Ironically, yet of the four I.P.'s you mentioned here, the only one that can't sustain it's own convention gathering is TMNT. :lol: Your observations man, are clearly sort of biased for whatever reason. Maybe through TMNT being the franchise that you like the most, maybe your a kid and don't know any better, whatever it is, but your opinions here are largely through your own lens which even in of itself is temporally short sighted. It's not a big deal, not trying to hammer it home terribly, but most of the stuff that you've said here that might be true is being held together by perceptual connections or supported basically from limited perspective. Trek is the bigger franchise by far.

Trekkies were the first fandom. Old enough to pre-date Star Wars. People shipped Kirk and Spock in the 60's even.

Just as a point of convo... and I'm inclined to agree with you here, but.... ehhhh....maayyybbbeeee The Lone Ranger? Do you think? I'm not sure...

[Turo602]

This point was either completely short sighted or a total straw man point of nonsense. "Turtles is a far more familiar franchise because so many people across multiple generations grew up with it". LMAO, Star Trek has spanned at least four generations of age groups, dude

This was said in reference to the point about Star Trek fans mostly being older and having been fans for life. As I've said before, I don't buy the notion that Star Trek has grown at the same rate as Ninja Turtles because one has specifically targeted children across 3 generations, while the other is being sustained by its core adult audience.

You are definitely speaking from your own lens here.

As I've stated multiple times. By no means is anything I've said here a fact. This is all for argument's sake by providing my own perspective as someone who is significantly younger than most of the people on this forum. Again, this is all conjecture.

If Ninja Turtles had more mainstream appeal then why has there never been a show on prime time T.V. where mainstream audiences view as a family? Why? Because it's a cartoon that doesn't have more mainstream appeal. TMNT has appeal to a demographic in kids viewing for the most part, outside of the outliers of the long time fans that will check out each iteration to see if it grabs them.

This is pretty obvious and this goes back to my entire point about Star Trek and TMNT occupying different facets of pop culture. Star Trek's success isn't comparable to TMNT's success because they both thrive on different things based on how their respective corporations perceive each property and choose to profit off of them. Prime time television slots hardly define what's mainstream and what will be mainstream in the next 10-20 years.

Go back and look at post #73 on page 4 of the thread where nothing more than 3rd grade-level Google-Fu alone solves this debate.

You compared box office numbers, yet Ninja Turtles comes up higher than Star Trek on lists of highest grossing media franchises. The most notable list that comes up stops at the top 25 and neither were mentioned. Even their YouTube views are off by a significant margin, with TMNT related content consistently having higher view counts.

That's as far as my research will go because numbers never tell you the full story anyway and I'm by no means trying to downplay nor magnify either franchise here because they're simply not comparable. I just feel like you guys are severely discrediting Ninja Turtles for being a "kid's" property while completely overblowing just how massive Star Trek really is in 2021 just because that was the case once upon a time and some nerds are like extremely passionate about it.

[IMJ]

Some of what you've said immediately above - yeah sure..... I can see some of that. But in the end, even diminished in 2021 (and no argument there about that at all - Trek is diminished right now) Star Trek is still the bigger franchise. The observation you made about YouTube views for the I.P.'s definitely adds an interesting component of viewership there - but I think that speaks to generational consumption habits more than "which is the bigger I.P.".

I think ultimately I understand what you are saying - but if the question was "which is the bigger I.P., TMNT or Star Trek", hands down it's Star Trek. Hand's down. Now if the question was "which is the bigger I.P. of the last two years, TMNT or Star Trek?". Ehhh... I don't know. Much tougher comparison, but probably still Trek.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

But it's not about who has a more hardcore or long lasting fandom. People my age and younger don't really gravitate towards Star Trek in my experience. Ninja Turtles is a far more familiar franchise because so many people across multiple generations grew up with it and it becomes nostalgic for many when they grow older, which is the exact audience BayTurtles was trying to capture and it made more money than the Star Trek reboot.

Ninja Turtles has its diehard fans that will be fans forever too, just look around. But it is a lot smaller compared to Star Trek. But the key difference is, Ninja Turtles has more mainstream appeal. Things like Star Wars and Marvel used to be things only nerds liked, but now everyone loves it and Ninja Turtles is no different. However, I don't think the same can really be said for Star Trek. Yes, it was very influential at one point in time and still a part of pop culture and fans are very passionate about it, but most people still find Star Trek lame outside of diehards, which tend to be older people who liked Star Trek way back when.


Here's the thing, you keep saying in YOUR experience, circle, etc. Which just means you either DO know some Trek fans, who simply haven't felt the need or desire to discuss it with you, or you haven't looked very hard to find any in your area, or your circle and experience are very limited in scope. I grew up in Texas, where nerdy stuff has always had a stigma, particularly Trek, but I could easily ask 50 people tomorrow if they know of it or have watched it, and would get a large percentage of yesses. I doubt I would get as many for TMNT. It WAS popular and well-known for a few years, but it hasn't been as "relevant" as Trek culturally since the mid 90s. Whereas Trek has REMAINED culturally relevant for decades. Not just for a year or two, or in tiny spurts of cash-milking a movie.

You keep bringing up the movie sales, but the thing there is it was for ONE movie (two maybe but the sequel was a box office bomb by today's standards) and the "classic" Trek movies, would be just as huge today if they were released now, based on fan popularity. TMNT is hardly mainstream- even when it was at its peak it was still mostly a niche kiddy franchise. And it's even more so now, because most kids who were fans have more or less forgotten about it beyond a vague memory of having liked it. How many casual fans of TMNT will even remember the Turtles' names correctly? Or what color each wears? Trek on the other hand has FAR more casual fans, regardless of how much ONE movie might make.

And if you want to talk about influence, Teek has done more to inspire and influence our modern technology and culture than ANY other franchise. Ipads? Trek introduced them in the 60's as datapads. Sci-fi transmat devices? Trek did it first with the teleporter. There was a contest by NASA to name one of the early space shuttles, and the winning name? Enterprise, hands down. Holographic projection technology? Yup, Trek was at the dawn of that, too. Many medical concepts were first created for it, too. And as mentioned, Star Trek has an entire exhibit for it in the National Air and Space Museum in the Smithsonian. Turtles? Nope, nowhere near that kind of influence.

[CyberCubed]

Yep, we also have warp drive and teleporters in real life now too and that was started by Star Trek.

[IMJ]

Yep, we also have warp drive and teleporters in real life now too and that was started by Star Trek.

I am experiencing that sort of internet bro love for you right now that is less akin to friendship and more akin to Stockholm Syndrome.

[Turo602]

Here's the thing, you keep saying in YOUR experience, circle, etc. Which just means you either DO know some Trek fans, who simply haven't felt the need or desire to discuss it with you, or you haven't looked very hard to find any in your area, or your circle and experience are very limited in scope. I grew up in Texas, where nerdy stuff has always had a stigma, particularly Trek, but I could easily ask 50 people tomorrow if they know of it or have watched it, and would get a large percentage of yesses. I doubt I would get as many for TMNT. It WAS popular and well-known for a few years, but it hasn't been as "relevant" as Trek culturally since the mid 90s. Whereas Trek has REMAINED culturally relevant for decades. Not just for a year or two, or in tiny spurts of cash-milking a movie.

You keep bringing up the movie sales, but the thing there is it was for ONE movie (two maybe but the sequel was a box office bomb by today's standards) and the "classic" Trek movies, would be just as huge today if they were released now, based on fan popularity. TMNT is hardly mainstream- even when it was at its peak it was still mostly a niche kiddy franchise. And it's even more so now, because most kids who were fans have more or less forgotten about it beyond a vague memory of having liked it. How many casual fans of TMNT will even remember the Turtles' names correctly? Or what color each wears? Trek on the other hand has FAR more casual fans, regardless of how much ONE movie might make.

And if you want to talk about influence, Teek has done more to inspire and influence our modern technology and culture than ANY other franchise. Ipads? Trek introduced them in the 60's as datapads. Sci-fi transmat devices? Trek did it first with the teleporter. There was a contest by NASA to name one of the early space shuttles, and the winning name? Enterprise, hands down. Holographic projection technology? Yup, Trek was at the dawn of that, too. Many medical concepts were first created for it, too. And as mentioned, Star Trek has an entire exhibit for it in the National Air and Space Museum in the Smithsonian. Turtles? Nope, nowhere near that kind of influence.

My experiences may be limited in scope, but I'm pretty sure I have a way better idea of what kids and teenagers were into in the 2000s than you do and Star Trek wasn't it. I mean seriously, you think anyone gives a crap about what's in the Smithsonian? You think this Tik Tok generation cares about what influence something they don't like had on the world before they were even in it? Influence doesn't equate to popularity.

These are both cultural phenomenons and everyone knows of their existence. There's no need to pretend Ninja Turtles is smaller than it really is just to make Star Trek look better. It's still huge and easily recognizable to anyone born anytime during and after the 80s. I'm sure parents from your generation know damn well what Ninja Turtles is too, especially if they were like my mom and had to live through it 3 times.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

My experiences may be limited in scope, but I'm pretty sure I have a way better idea of what kids and teenagers were into in the 2000s than you do and Star Trek wasn't it. I mean seriously, you think anyone gives a crap about what's in the Smithsonian? You think this Tik Tok generation cares about what influence something they don't like had on the world before they were even in it? Influence doesn't equate to popularity.

These are both cultural phenomenons and everyone knows of their existence. There's no need to pretend Ninja Turtles is smaller than it really is just to make Star Trek look better. It's still huge and easily recognizable to anyone born anytime during and after the 80s. I'm sure parents from your generation know damn well what Ninja Turtles is too, especially if they were like my mom and had to live through it 3 times.


Maybe in your area or circle. Thing is, if YOU weren't into it, would you have ever bothered finding out if others you knew were? Doubt it. Just because you weren't into it at that age doesn't mean others weren't. Heck I spent the early 2000's helping raise my three cousins (ages from 8 to 13 at the start, for three and a half years) and guess what? They cared more about The Simpsons and yes, Star Trek than they did about Ninja Turtles. In fact, it was barely even on their radar. Turtles were hardly as "big" in the 2000's as you seem to think. It was not the same "cultural phenomenon " then as it was in the early 90s, no matter how much you want to believe it was. It was barely even on anyone's radar unless they were already fans. Even kids didn't seem to be as into it.

Star Trek, on the other hand, was still huge, due to having just had FOUR series in the past decade, all either concurrent or in quick succession, which were still being shown in syndication, all before the era of YouTube videos and streaming services. TMNT had, in that time, ONE series that was barely even known outside of devout fans, because Saturday cartoons were on the way out and fewer kids were even watching them. And the 03 series was barely publicized. I didn't even see any of it (while having been raising three boys) until the later seasons! So where was the popularity? Not among those kids you claim were so familiar with it in that time. At least not the kids I was raising or their friends. But those boys darn well knew Star Trek, and watched it! So your assumption that you know the kids of the time better than me is just that, an assumption. I was surrounded by them 24-7. And they WEREN'T watching TMNT, it was Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Simpsons. And ST in the evenings. Pretty sure that was true across the board. (Maybe not as many watching ST, but more aware of it than of TMNT, due to syndicated episodes airing frequently. And their parents probably watched it, so they'd have been fairly familiar with it. )

[Turo602]

Maybe in your area or circle. Thing is, if YOU weren't into it, would you have ever bothered finding out if others you knew were? Doubt it. Just because you weren't into it at that age doesn't mean others weren't. Heck I spent the early 2000's helping raise my three cousins (ages from 8 to 13 at the start, for three and a half years) and guess what? They cared more about The Simpsons and yes, Star Trek than they did about Ninja Turtles. In fact, it was barely even on their radar. Turtles were hardly as "big" in the 2000's as you seem to think. It was not the same "cultural phenomenon " then as it was in the early 90s, no matter how much you want to believe it was. It was barely even on anyone's radar unless they were already fans. Even kids didn't seem to be as into it.

Star Trek, on the other hand, was still huge, due to having just had FOUR series in the past decade, all either concurrent or in quick succession, which were still being shown in syndication, all before the era of YouTube videos and streaming services. TMNT had, in that time, ONE series that was barely even known outside of devout fans, because Saturday cartoons were on the way out and fewer kids were even watching them. And the 03 series was barely publicized. I didn't even see any of it (while having been raising three boys) until the later seasons! So where was the popularity? Not among those kids you claim were so familiar with it in that time. At least not the kids I was raising or their friends. But those boys darn well knew Star Trek, and watched it! So your assumption that you know the kids of the time better than me is just that, an assumption. I was surrounded by them 24-7. And they WEREN'T watching TMNT, it was Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Simpsons. And ST in the evenings. Pretty sure that was true across the board. (Maybe not as many watching ST, but more aware of it than of TMNT, due to syndicated episodes airing frequently. And their parents probably watched it, so they'd have been fairly familiar with it. )

I'm sorry, but this is a laughable comparison. You raising 3 kids and influencing them is hardly the same as someone who grew up in that era and spent the majority of their time surrounded by and interacting with other kids. Hell, I have 2 nieces and 1 nephew born within the last decade and you bet your ass I made sure they know TMNT. Star Trek on the other hand? They don't even know it exists.

And I never claimed TMNT was as big as a phenomenon as it once was, not even Star Trek is, but it was still well known. There's this thing called older siblings that people have, and guess what, they lived the Turtle craze and their younger siblings shared some of that experience. You're crazy to think Ninja Turtles just got wiped from public consciousness after the 90s like if kids in the 2000s were completely braindead of the last decade.

Also, whether I'm into something or not has absolutely nothing to do with others bringing it up like they did countless other things. There's lots of stuff I'm not into that I had to hear about either directly or indirectly like anime, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Twilight, Call of Duty, skating, sh*t music, and so on. I'm more familiar with what was popular and what wasn't and what was culturally relevant with young people in the 2000s, and it wasn't Star Trek. Ninja Turtles has honestly come up way more often and from unexpected sources than Star Trek ever did, which was zero.

The only person who ever brought up Star Trek was this old professor in college who had made a reference to Klingons in an effort to relate with the classroom, and got nothing but awkward silence and confusion from everyone and that was way more recently and the people in that classroom were significantly younger than me.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You assume I was influencing what they watched- nope. They already HAD their own likes and preferences, and TMNT wasn't one of them, as they barely knew it existed, in spite of there being a cartoon. We ALL watched ST though, and they liked it! Also, explain how RAISING three kids aged 7-13 (and one 4 year old who was a part-time custody addition) isn't being surrounded by and interacting with kids? I just said that I was doing just that, and what their interests were, ie, Pokemon, YU-GI-OH, Simpsons, and Star Wars (with ST as an evening tv show they liked.) Neither they nor I had any real awareness of TMNT even being "popular" at the time. Even with a cartoon on Saturdays. They just- weren't really into it, or watching it. And apparently neither were any of their friends, given that they never even mentioned it. These were kids I was LIVING WITH, seeing 24-7 except for when they were at school. And I went on school outings with them (as chaperone), to Boy Scout meets and events with them, and karate classes, game tournaments (Pokemon and YU-GI-OH, again) and never once heard ANYONE at those places talk about liking TMNT! Yet somehow it was "bigger"?. The funny thing is, they were of an age range that SHOULD have been heavily into TMNT if your own experience was accurate as a measure, but they weren't. Not even the 4 yr old.

Look, I know YOU were more into it and aware of it than of ST in that time, but what I'm trying to illustrate here is that, for MOST, that simply wasn't as big or as popular as you remember it being, due to fewer kids even watching cartoons as they were being phased out at the time. Unless it was Simpsons or Pokemon or YU-GI-OH, they didn't even care about cartoons. And Power Rangers. Almost forgot that one, but I just remembered being forced to sit through that gods-aweful movie over and over again. As well as EVERY EPISODE of The Simpsons REPEATEDLY. So, no, I didn't influence their preference for one over the other, we just all like to watch ST in the evenings. They loved TNG, but got bored by the political aspects of DS9, and Liked Neelix and Tuvok on Voyager, as well as the Borg kids. I had nothing to do with that, they just liked the characters and the ships and stuff. Just like they did with Star Wars. We even played a Star Wars board game!

I get that you loved TMNT in the 200s, a lot of us probably would have, if we'd even had much exposure to it, but with ONE cartoon that was barely even advertised as existing, it simply wasn't as big as you remember it being, even if you had friends into it, too. It was just- not the cultural phenomenon then that it was in the early 90s- and I WAS part of THAT generation! It was HUGE then, with TMNT visible everywhere you looked. Backpacks, lunch boxes, clothes, toys, posters, even foods in the grocery aisle. But in 2003-2007? Barely anything. A few toys and t-shirts of the "old-school" TMNT, maybe a few of the Popsicles still around, but that was it. Not much else, and the cartoon was barely a blip on the cultural radar. Even the 07 movie didn't really leave a big mark. Not like the originals. I'm not making TMNT "smaller", I'm just saying you are making it out to be much bigger back then than it actually was. Because you were a fan, while most really weren't. Even me, and I WAS a huge fan of the originals!

As for others, how do you know they WEREN'T into it? Trek has always had a stigma as a "nerd" fandom, especially before the advent of "nerd culture" made it more acceptable to like things like that. Most people of ANY age would have been less likely to admit they enjoyed it, because it would have invited ridicule and scorn. So they probably would not have mentioned it in groups even if they DID like it. But sure, you can say it wasn't popular with kids and teens, but you have no real proof of that beyond a personal circle of experience. And how many of those SAME kids and teens are fans of it NOW? probably a lot more than you might think. At least if one looks at comments from people of that age on YouTube.

[Turo602]

You assume I was influencing what they watched- nope. They already HAD their own likes and preferences, and TMNT wasn't one of them, as they barely knew it existed, in spite of there being a cartoon. We ALL watched ST though, and they liked it! Also, explain how RAISING three kids aged 7-13 (and one 4 year old who was a part-time custody addition) isn't being surrounded by and interacting with kids? I just said that I was doing just that, and what their interests were, ie, Pokemon, YU-GI-OH, Simpsons, and Star Wars (with ST as an evening tv show they liked.) Neither they nor I had any real awareness of TMNT even being "popular" at the time. Even with a cartoon on Saturdays. They just- weren't really into it, or watching it. And apparently neither were any of their friends, given that they never even mentioned it. These were kids I was LIVING WITH, seeing 24-7 except for when they were at school. And I went on school outings with them (as chaperone), to Boy Scout meets and events with them, and karate classes, game tournaments (Pokemon and YU-GI-OH, again) and never once heard ANYONE at those places talk about liking TMNT! Yet somehow it was "bigger"?. The funny thing is, they were of an age range that SHOULD have been heavily into TMNT if your own experience was accurate as a measure, but they weren't. Not even the 4 yr old.

Again, living with a couple kids doesn't make your experience anywhere near as authentic or as relevant than mine no matter how epic or big you try to make it sound.

As for others, how do you know they WEREN'T into it? Trek has always had a stigma as a "nerd" fandom, especially before the advent of "nerd culture" made it more acceptable to like things like that. Most people of ANY age would have been less likely to admit they enjoyed it, because it would have invited ridicule and scorn. So they probably would not have mentioned it in groups even if they DID like it. But sure, you can say it wasn't popular with kids and teens, but you have no real proof of that beyond a personal circle of experience. And how many of those SAME kids and teens are fans of it NOW? probably a lot more than you might think. At least if one looks at comments from people of that age on YouTube.

This further proves just how out of touch you are with my generation despite chaperoning some kids. We definitely had our stigmas, but nerd culture was very acceptable and most of those stigmas wore off by the time I was in high school. You're seriously in denial here. Get over it. You don't know what it was like growing up in the 2000s.

Anyway, I've elaborated on my side in this thread already. I don't know what your point is exactly other than shouting things at me like they're suddenly true. I don't care to debate which is bigger and it's honestly f*cking pointless.

[CyberCubed]

To be honest I remember people still making fun of anime fans in the early 2000's, from like 2000-2008 or so. Stuff like Dragonball Z, etc. was mainstream but if you liked any other anime at the time you were looked down upon as an anime nerd or anime weeabo.

[Andrew NDB]

"Ben Sisko's non-linear, non-binary arc in Deep Space Nine's 'Emissary' saved all my lives":

https://www.tor.com/2023/02/28/ben-siskos-non-linear-non-binary-arc-in-deep-space-nines-emissary-saved-all-my-lives/?fbclid=IwAR08W0OImuiQknOvItyvk3wryyDGrBAWvZyHBEOR NOaO-TCvNlidFGZQoKQ

[Cowabung-Gal]

Guess who will be at Little Rock Comic Con?

William Shatner himself.

I made the mistake of not meeting Kevin Conroy before his death. I ain’t making the same mistake with Shatner. We’ll have to get there EARLY though. The line will definitely be crazy.

https://resizing.flixster.com/C9uRgDzDH7JQzCiDyJksMe-Qg3U=/206x305/v2/https://flxt.tmsimg.com/assets/p1884621_e_v8_aa.jpg

P.S. We did in fact stand in line for 275 minutes to meet Kevin Eastman.

[Andrew NDB]

Guess who will be at Little Rock Comic Con?

William Shatner himself.

I saw him like 12 years ago.

https://i.ibb.co/mcFvFHL/bill.jpg

He's always sitting and he always smells a little of booze.

[Cowabung-Gal]

he always smells a little of booze.

Better than smelling like weed, which a lot of comics customers tend to smell like. :lol:

[oldmanwinters]

He's always sitting and he always smells a little of booze.

Better than smelling like weed, which a lot of comics customers tend to smell like. :lol:

ROTFL! :rolling:

[Jester]

Guess who will be at Little Rock Comic Con?

William Shatner himself.

I made the mistake of not meeting Kevin Conroy before his death. I ain’t making the same mistake with Shatner. We’ll have to get there EARLY though. The line will definitely be crazy.

https://resizing.flixster.com/C9uRgDzDH7JQzCiDyJksMe-Qg3U=/206x305/v2/https://flxt.tmsimg.com/assets/p1884621_e_v8_aa.jpg

P.S. We did in fact stand in line for 275 minutes to meet Kevin Eastman.

Part of the reason I went to the Little Rock Anime Fest to meet Rob Paulsen earlier this month. I regret not going to see Kevin Conroy before he he passed.

[Sumac]

"Ben Sisko's non-linear, non-binary arc in Deep Space Nine's 'Emissary' saved all my lives":

https://www.tor.com/2023/02/28/ben-siskos-non-linear-non-binary-arc-in-deep-space-nines-emissary-saved-all-my-lives/?fbclid=IwAR08W0OImuiQknOvItyvk3wryyDGrBAWvZyHBEOR NOaO-TCvNlidFGZQoKQ
Is this satire or for real?
In a *CURRENT YEAR 2023* I can't tell anymore.

[CyberCubed]

I saw him like 12 years ago.

https://i.ibb.co/mcFvFHL/bill.jpg

He's always sitting and he always smells a little of booze.

I'm surprise how young you look there, even if it is 12 years ago. You could pass for a college aged student here. I know you're 40+ so you were about 30 here I assume?

[IMJ]

I saw him like 12 years ago.

https://i.ibb.co/mcFvFHL/bill.jpg

He's always sitting and he always smells a little of booze.

He's like the next Stan Lee. Even right now he's does these things out of his own desire at least, but who knows - anymore from the next convention season to any point in the future they could be wheeling him out and propping him up in a chair.

The booze thing was hysterical though..

[Roseangelo]

I saw Shatner at Comic-Con last year. He did a private signing off-site that you had to pre-register for. It was a simple but very nice little event. You were still herded through the line like cattle to get your autograph and/or picture (and there was a 10" plexiglass barrier between us because Covid... :roll:), but it was quiet and I was able to linger a little bit in the back of the room to put my stuff away proper and chat with other fans.

He's definitely worth the price if you have the opportunity.

[AquaParade]

Meet-and-greet with plexiglass is some of the funniest crap of our lifetime.

I'm being a little facetious. I'm sure it can still be an enjoyable experience. But you can't look at the situation and not just...

[Andrew NDB]

Meet-and-greet with plexiglass is some of the funniest crap of our lifetime.

I'm being a little facetious. I'm sure it can still be an enjoyable experience. But you can't look at the situation and not just...

I would never agree to meet a celebrity through plexiglass. That is ridiculous.

Look, The Mary Sue did a ranking of the best captains. Of course Kirk is #9 and even Geordi's mom (and Burnham of course) rank higher:

https://www.themarysue.com/best-star-trek-captains-ranked/

[CyberCubed]

To get back to the title of this thread, I think if you didn't grow up or get into it during the 90's I can see why the younger generation isn't into Star Trek.
After the original series, Star Trek peaked from 1987-2000 when Next Gen, Deep Space Nine and Voyager were all airing. Enterprise didn't do as well and by then a lot of fans were also feeling franchise fatigue.

Anyone who grew up in the 2000's is now in their early 20's, and they would have grown up with Star Trek being completely absent from the mainstream media. So if you were say 5 years old in 2005, you would not be into Star Trek and by the time you became a teen there would be nothing to watch. The 2009 movie did bring in some casual fans but I think they just watched the first movie or two and then dipped.

I don't know if Discovery brought in many new fans or not, but it's pretty obvious Star Trek had its second peak in the 90's and if you didn't grow up in that era it's not going to catch on with you. Even now Picard, Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks/Prodigy are all aimed at older fans who knows these characters or references than any new fans.

Star Trek is probably irrelevant to 2000's kids.

[Andrew NDB]

If Discuckery brought in any new fans it would be the wrong kind.

[rav4ge]

To get back to the title of this thread, I think if you didn't grow up or get into it during the 90's I can see why the younger generation isn't into Star Trek.
After the original series, Star Trek peaked from 1987-2000 when Next Gen, Deep Space Nine and Voyager were all airing. Enterprise didn't do as well and by then a lot of fans were also feeling franchise fatigue.

...

Star Trek is probably irrelevant to 2000's kids.

Yup. Can confirm. Growing up, we millennials recognized Star Trek's prestige, but the franchise was relatively inaccessible to us in its various forms. If you were lucky, maybe an older family member or friend would introduce you to the series and catch you up with DVRs or the movies. Thankfully, streaming has changed all that, and I'm trying to get into it now, but I think it's safe to say we largely missed the boat as a generation.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, I can definitely see why Star Trek is irrelevant to anyone born after the year 2000. It was absent on TV all those years too (technically it still is since it's on streaming) and from 2005+ onward it was dead besides the occasional movie.

Star Trek probably struggles to bring in new fans at this point, which is why all the new shows feel like legacy shows now focusing on the past characters.

[tokki.kier]

I'm a big fan of TOS and the films, and the NuTrek films. It was after seeing the 2009 film that I went back and watched the series. I've seen a bit of Next Gen and Discovery, but nothing has grabbed me so much as the original. I even named my old cat Tiberius.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Dont buy from Hollywood Show , they sell fake autographs : Meriwethers on ebay are autopenned junk and Stan Lee funko fake too

HS is doing a con with Shatner

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/hZSbzvV/417784504-7493932457283867-2514868361228321633-n.jpg

[triplexxx]

At Fan Expo a couple months back, Barry Gordon told me he likes Wars a little more than Trek, despite being cast in Trek. Maurice LaMarche told me he preferred Trek a little more; he liked the old Wars stuff from the 1970s-1980s, but didn't care for the newer stuff and didn't like when they killed off the classic characters.

[Andrew NDB]

Things to like about modern Star Trek since 2005:

* Leonard Nimoy's part in ST 2009.
* Star Trek: Picard season 3.

And no, Strange New Worlds is utter crap, with a fanfic-like group of characters (a Khan descendant on the bridge who kept the last name? Uhura years before she's supposed to be there? a eugenics superwoman first officer? singing and dancing Spock with a wife he shouldn't be spending any time with since TOS said they hadn't seen each other since they were kids?) none of which are played as competent Starfleet officers with all of it written by a group of CW writers who've never written any sci-fi.


Things to like about modern Star Wars since 2012:

* Star Wars: Rogue One. Arguably.
* Star Wars: Rebels.
* The Mandalorian.
* The final slew of Star Wars: Clone Wars.
* Star Wars: Ahsoka.
* Star Wars: Obi-Wan (I guess? Mostly?).
* Star Wars: Andor (I still haven't seen it beyond the first episode but I still see a lot of people saying they dig it).

So yeah, I guess Star Wars, in spite of some real crap is still in way, way better condition than where Star Trek is right now.