Does the TMNT franchise deserve to continue without the comic?

[CyberCubed]

This thread is hypothetical, since we know Viacom has a new theatrical movie and cartoon geared up for 2012, along with most likely a new toy line from Playmates.

However the future of the comics is in doubt. Volume 4 may never be completed, and aside from that we don't know if or when a new TMNT comic will be introduced.

Nick could have a comic started based on the cartoon, but that would be like what Archie and Dreamwave were based on their respective cartoons, not the Mirage universe.

Do you think the TMNT franchise in terms of movies/cartoons/toys should continue without the comics?

[Andrew NDB]

If the movie(s) and cartoon suck then no, it doesn't deserve to continue. But the jury's out on at least one of those two things.

[Dragon Turtle]

Do you think the TMNT franchise in terms of movies/cartoons/toys should continue without the comics?

Some could argue that the TMNT franchise has continued without the comics for quite a long time.

[Roseangelo]

Some could argue that the TMNT franchise has continued without the comics for quite a long time.

This was going to be my response.

[Powder]

I am un-decided. The best aspect of the franchise to me is the comics so I can't say I'd like to see the TMNT carry on without a comic line or some sort... even if it were many years down the line. Do I think they deserve to go on without one? Sure... I love all versions of the TMNT & I think each one has offered something good to the table whether that be lots of action, morals/messages, or just laughs. As a whole the franchise rules so I'd hate to see it not exist in some form.

I guess maybe what I stated makes me seem like I should've voted yes... Although I'd like to see them continue regardless, never seeing another new comic would be a real kick in the head.

[sdp]

TMNT is a franchise thanks to the OT, if it wasn't it'd be an obscure indie comic that comic book geeks would recommend each other but no one in the mainstreamw ould know about. So yes the TMNT should and will continue without any Mirage universe, it may have been the origin of the TMNT but the franchise is bigger than Mirage ever was.

And yes even if the new toon and movie suck the turtles should continue, one bad interpretation hasn't stopped other franchises from getting new kick ass takes. And even a major company owning DC hasn't stopped from the best interpretations of the characters to be done recently.

[Andrew NDB]

Some could argue that the TMNT franchise has continued without the comics for quite a long time.

Aside from the brief pause when Mirage shut down after Volume 2 and the equally brief pause after NT:TNM and the Image cancellation, I'm not sure how you mean. We've only been continuing without the comics for a couple of weeks now.

TMNT is a franchise thanks to the OT, if it wasn't it'd be an obscure indie comic that comic book geeks would recommend each other but no one in the mainstreamw ould know about.

There's worse things to be, I suppose. Though it's pretty short-sighted to think that Fred Wolf would have been the one and only viable, franchise-creating offer Kevin and Peter would have gotten had the original comic continued with it turned down.

[Luzmagica]

I voted first option because I get into TMNT with cartoons/movies/cards....just in last place (not less important, of course) I´d found the comics....but the franchise can live healthy without comics...IMO.
Of course if there area new released line of comic book it will be nice!!

[Andrew NDB]

....but the franchise can live healthy without comics...IMO.

It's possible, I guess. There's been studies.

See here (http://www.mindreality.net/is-your-brain-really-necessary).

[Dragon Turtle]

Aside from the brief pause when Mirage shut down after Volume 2 and the equally brief pause after NT:TNM and the Image cancellation, I'm not sure how you mean. We've only been continuing without the comics for a couple of weeks now.


What I really mean is that the TMNT franchise has since moved beyond the influence of any single aspect of the franchise, especially the comics, since the comics have had a fairly low profile for quite some time, many people didn't even know volume 4 was being printed given its lack of marketing and odd scheduling. Most people would probably only recall Volume 1, and a few others would vaguely recall the Image series.

The 2k3 cartoon, 2007 movie, the 2012 movie and cartoon, all developed due to the TMNT brand, not necessarily because the TMNT comics themselves were still being produced.



There's worse things to be, I suppose. Though it's pretty short-sighted to think that Fred Wolf would have been the one and only viable, franchise-creating offer Kevin and Peter would have gotten had the original comic continued with it turned down.

Most likely sold to DC or Marvel.

[Roseangelo]

Aside from the brief pause when Mirage shut down after Volume 2 and the equally brief pause after NT:TNM and the Image cancellation, I'm not sure how you mean. We've only been continuing without the comics for a couple of weeks now.

Technically, yes. But what have the comics contributed to the rest of the franchise, the actual money-making part of it, since the end of City at War? The comics are still barely acknowledged by the general public, so I can't imagine things would be much different had they just stopped publishing them for good in the 90s. You could argue about exactly when that stopping point might be, but certainly the past 10 years of comics could be non-existent without having any impact on the number of plastic figures, t-shirts, pajamas, etc. sold. Those are the numbers that count in the end. Doesn't mean people haven't enjoyed them, but were they necessary to the franchise? Absolutely not.

[Luzmagica]

It's possible, I guess. There's been studies.

See here (http://www.mindreality.net/is-your-brain-really-necessary).

LOL!!! 10/10 points!!! :lol::lol::lol:

[Ninja Tiptup]

This thread is hypothetical, since we know Viacom has a new theatrical movie and cartoon geared up for 2012, along with most likely a new toy line from Playmates.

However the future of the comics is in doubt. Volume 4 may never be completed, and aside from that we don't know if or when a new TMNT comic will be introduced.

Nick could have a comic started based on the cartoon, but that would be like what Archie and Dreamwave were based on their respective cartoons, not the Mirage universe.

Do you think the TMNT franchise in terms of movies/cartoons/toys should continue without the comics?

When has the comics ever really meant much to the franchise outside of the comics? The 4Kids show did a good job of retelling some of the stories from those comics and eventually gave us a brief look at what a more direct animated adaptation of Mirage TMNT might be like even if it was sort of a satire. Other than that the movies, the cartoons, video games, etc. have rarely been influenced by the comics other than having some of the same characters.

What you're really asking (and don't think I don't notice how you ask one question when you really mean another quite often around here) is should the franchise continue without guidence from the creators as well as without the original TMNT story still being widely available? Several patches TMNT's existence were without comics and without guidence from the creators. Sometimes this ended in disaster and typically better things came out of producers working with Laird and/or Eastman but both of them seem to understand that with TMNT they created something much bigger than either of them. Something downright timeless that would see many transmutations throughout the years but hopefully remain true to the original in at least some sense.

I'm saddened that Laird isn't going to finish Mirage Volume IV but honestly I didn't keep up with it or many TMNT comics for that matter. It was pretty hard to find some of them even when they were being printed.

TMNT is a franchise that has never really relied on its' comic routes for success while the same cannot be said for various long standing comics that were the most influential as comic books. TMNT while rather groundbreaking for indie comics was not a show stopper as a comic book. It was a show stopper when it became a hit cartoon series. And while I personally dislike when people write off the comics and consider the 80s cartoon to be the TMNT all others should be like I did like the 80s cartoon as well. I love it to this day. I have enjoyed many stories told in the various mediums that TMNT has dabbled in but none more than I love the characters themselves as long as the TMNT are still the TMNT I welcome any new variation and I also welcome a future without the original comic stories still being told and without the creators guiding the projects.

I remain cautiously optimistic that Nick will do great things with TMNT. That's really all I can hope for. As long as TMNT continues to delight new generations I'm content. Nick has made poor decisions from time to time but they're not stupid. They know people will reject TMNT that isn't TMNT. So I'm certain TMNT will continue to be TMNT without the comics being around to remind people where they came from.

With a great deal of respect to the comics. TMNT does not end with the comics. It never has and it never will. Is that a good thing? That's entirely up to each individual fan to decide for themselves.

[Andrew NDB]

What I really mean is that the TMNT franchise has since moved beyond the influence of any single aspect of the franchise, especially the comics, since the comics have had a fairly low profile for quite some time, many people didn't even know volume 4 was being printed given its lack of marketing and odd scheduling. Most people would probably only recall Volume 1, and a few others would vaguely recall the Image series.

You're not thinking bigger picture. The Fred Wolf deal set in motion a mass-media blitzkreig that forever (well, let's hope not) created a certain "image" of the TMNT in the larger public eye. Had they passed on this deal and awaited another type of "Let's try and bring the TMNT to larger media!" deal that would have come along... who knows, you know?

Most likely sold to DC or Marvel.

Not likely. We already know a Marvel deal was on the table and they scoffed it away. As they should've.

[Shark_Blade]

I don't even know the comic still existed? They are no where to be found for decades.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't even know the comic still existed? They are no where to be found for decades.

Not really relevant. Nothing you know of the TMNT now would exist without them.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Nick could have a comic started based on the cartoon, but that would be like what Archie and Dreamwave were based on their respective cartoons, not the Mirage universe.


Of coruse, they could still exist. And what I've heard, people liked Dreamwave.

[Eiko]

I think the Turtles will be fine without a comic.

[plastroncafe]

It's too early to tell what does, or doesn't, "deserve" to continue.
If the new stuff sucks all joy, then no not really.
If the new stuff adds flavor and substance to what's come before,....well then surely!

[sdp]

There's worse things to be, I suppose. Though it's pretty short-sighted to think that Fred Wolf would have been the one and only viable, franchise-creating offer Kevin and Peter would have gotten had the original comic continued with it turned down.

I don't think its short-sighted, that was a once in a lifetime chance. I'm sure you'd agree theres a lot of other great indie comics and yet those have never been picked up as cartoons and made into big franchises, Usagi Yojimbo is a good example. Also a lot was changed from the original concept of the original TMNT for them to become the franchise that it did. Not many people would think "oh lets take this grim and violent comic book and make it into a saturday morning cartoon.

[Koi]

If I had to decide, I would say yes.

[Kendamu]

That's not my decision to make. That decision belongs to the target audience of the next incarnation of TMNT. Whether I like it or not doesn't matter because the only thing left on my list of TMNT stuff is Turtles Forever on DVD.

After that, I'm not a wallet for them to tap into unless the movie's good enough for one ticket and a DVD.

[Dragon Turtle]

You're not thinking bigger picture. The Fred Wolf deal set in motion a mass-media blitzkreig that forever (well, let's hope not) created a certain "image" of the TMNT in the larger public eye. Had they passed on this deal and awaited another type of "Let's try and bring the TMNT to larger media!" deal that would have come along... who knows, you know?



Some other deal that would have brought TMNT into the mainstream MIGHT have come along, but that is pure speculation. The comics could have gone on the way they were much like Usagi Yojimbo (although I don't see either Peter or Kevin sticking to this scenario), or they could have ended like so many other 80s indie comics, forgotten and collecting dust in the quarter bins. One thing to keep in mind about the Fred Wolf deal and the media blitz that followed was that, it help create a certain awareness among Hollywood and others that that these small indie comics could be mined for ideas and could be brought to the masses.



Not likely. We already know a Marvel deal was on the table and they scoffed it away. As they should've.


At that time, but who's to say that Laird and Eastman wouldn't have accepted another offer down the line, comic companies would still be the best suitors for a comic book property, and Marvel and DC were still the biggest companies out there.


Not really relevant. Nothing you know of the TMNT now would exist without them.

No one can argue TMNT wouldn't exist without the original comic, but you can argue that TMNT could continue to exist without it.

[ToTheNines]

What the heck do you mean "deserve"?

And I'm almost positive there will be another TMNT comic series in the near future, and just because it won't be Mirage Universe doesn't mean it won't be good.

Some other deal that would have brought TMNT into the mainstream MIGHT have come along, but that is pure speculation.

I don't think it's speculation at all. However popular any other deal could have become is speculation, but not the fact that there would have been other paths for E&L to take the TMNT down.

[Andrew NDB]

And I'm almost positive there will be another TMNT comic series in the near future

That would be a very safe bet.

[ToTheNines]

That would be a very safe bet.

Aren't you cool with your inside knowledge? :P

[Coola Yagami]

In a way, it's always been goin on without the comics. Most fans STILL don't know they originally came from an independant black and white comic book.

[shuriken]

It's too early to tell what does, or doesn't, "deserve" to continue.
If the new stuff sucks all joy, then no not really.
If the new stuff adds flavor and substance to what's come before,....well then surely!
I agree with this. Too soon to tell. But saying that something does/doesn't deserve to be around without it's prime inspiration is a bit foolish. But I dunno...

[CyberCubed]

The Mirage universe is probably just about done too. It lasted over 25 years, which is impressive.

Aside from the Image conclusion and the very small chance of Volume 4 getting a proper ending, I see no way the Mirage universe would be continued by another publisher.

Most likely either:

a) A new TMNT comic will be produced as a reboot and have no ties to the Mirage continuity

b) Nick will have a children's comic based on the cartoon, like the Archie/Dreamwave series started as.

[Dragon Turtle]

I don't think it's speculation at all. However popular any other deal could have become is speculation, but not the fact that there would have been other paths for E&L to take the TMNT down.

True enough, I'm pretty sure E&L did receive other offers for TMNT after it became an indie hit.



The Mirage universe is probably just about done too. It lasted over 25 years, which is impressive.

Aside from the Image conclusion and the very small chance of Volume 4 getting a proper ending, I see no way the Mirage universe would be continued by another publisher.


Well, it's possible someone could start up the Mirage universe again, if the publisher has a strong enough belief they can sell new readers on it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I don't think its short-sighted, that was a once in a lifetime chance. I'm sure you'd agree theres a lot of other great indie comics and yet those have never been picked up as cartoons and made into big franchises, Usagi Yojimbo is a good example. Also a lot was changed from the original concept of the original TMNT for them to become the franchise that it did. Not many people would think "oh lets take this grim and violent comic book and make it into a saturday morning cartoon.

Do you think Usagi Yojimbo cartoon could work?

[Scandia]

Yes, because I honestly do not like a lot of the Mirage comics. To me, they were the seed that sprouted the original idea- the Turtles Prime. But many of the spinoffs are better IMHO. In fact, I liked the Archie comic better than the Mirage one.

[Jephael]

If the cartoon series does well enough, I'm sure Viacom will find a company willing to produce a Ninja Turtle comic at some point. You just have to be patient.

[Spitfire]

Turtles never really gets a raw deal. Granted us as fans may not always be happy turtles seems to get more chances then a lot of franchises. While I love the comics if I had to pick between the turtles only carrying on as a comic or only carrying on in a bigger medium, TV and film, I'd pick motion media. The comics are great but it doesn't turn a profit and it yields very little merchandise. Plus I can't really say the more recent comics have been all that great. While I enjoy reading them they're not all up there with some of the classics and I doubt it will ever get that good again.

Some TV and movie series get canceled and have to continue on in comic books, turtles got the opposite option. It's a better deal in my opinion.

[Shred87]

Should they keep going without the comics?? I don't see how thats even a debate... I hate to say it but the turtles really dont have that strong of a comic foundation... I mean has there even been 200 issues that are considered canon? How many comic arcs are well known or have been adapted in another media? 2? 3? When you look at characters like Superman and Batman that have multiple titles with over 7-800 issues there's really no comparison.. The comic may have been the first step but the OT/movie/action figures is what made this franchise.

[Powder]

Should they keep going without the comics?? I don't see how thats even a debate... I hate to say it but the turtles really dont have that strong of a comic foundation... I mean has there even been 200 issues that are considered canon? How many comic arcs are well known or have been adapted in another media? 2? 3? When you look at characters like Superman and Batman that have multiple titles with over 7-800 issues there's really no comparison.. The comic may have been the first step but the OT/movie/action figures is what made this franchise.

Many issues & story arcs were adapted into the 2k3 show. There were alot of hints & nods to the comics in all 4 feature films & obviously Turtles Forever too. They don't have a strong comic foundation? Really? Let me see...

Definitions of foundation on the Web:

the basis on which something is grounded; "there is little foundation for his objections"
an institution supported by an endowment
lowest support of a structure; "it was built on a base of solid rock"; "he stood at the foot of the tower"
education or instruction in the fundamentals of a field of knowledge; "he lacks the foundation necessary for advanced study"; "a good grounding in mathematics"
basis: the fundamental assumptions from which something is begun or developed or calculated or explained; "the whole argument rested on a basis of conjecture"

Their foundation IS the comics. I'm not gonna act like the comics are the most popular part of the franchise, we all know thats not the case, but to act like they are of little significance is straight-up ignorant. Many characters were brought into shows from the comics and alot of others were based on some.

[Shred87]

Look dont get me wrong I LOVE the comic version... I have collected all of the 4 volumes.. I feel it's the best version of the characters because lets face it, it's the original and I think that says something... maybe I chose my words wrong I'll give you that but the point I was trying to make is that even though the comic was the first step there wouldn't be a franchise if there wasn't the OT..

I feel if you take someone off the street and ask the what are the TMNT, the majority would say that they're a cartoon...whereas if you asked someone who Batman/Wonder Woman are they'd answer comic characters. The turtles really aren't known as comic characters outside of die hards like on these boards... I was young when the OT was in its heyday and the only comics I bought was the archie series because I thought I was buying a book form of the cartoon.

The 2k3 series absolutely pulled from the comics... but I don't care what you say there really isnt much there... Most of V1 is not even canon..I believe it's 25-30 issues... None of V3 is canon...the cartoon (to my knowledge) didn't refer to V4 as the Turtles are in their 30's... and V2 was 13 issues For a comic that has been around 25 yrs thats really not that impressive... So to go back to the question of the topic should the franchise continue w/o the comic... I agree with a previous poster that if the comic ended after V1 the franchise would not have been affected in any way..

[Powder]

I don't know if you could TRULY say that, its really a "What if?" situation. Many people didn't follow the comics because they assumed it was just as immature/aimed for kids as the OT was. Alot of OT fans wouldn't get into the comics because they weren't goofy enough & "had the colors wrong" on their bandanas. The turtles got their toon because of the increasing rate of popularity & potential the comic had. If the show had come first, there likely wouldn't have been a comic spawned from it. Now lets think about this- Spiderman & alot of other legendary comic franchises were vastly popular for a long period of time before they ever saw animated or live action shows/movies. Had the turtles gotten that very same chance, say they hadn't been made into a tv show or movie until now (26 years is a good bit of time I think), they might have maintained that insane popularity with both the show & comic alike. Spiderman comics currently still flood the market & sell heavily, as do the toys & ticket sales for films. I'm sayin' they very well could have had both sides of it blossoming had that been the way it went. Having the OT come out kinda ruined the comics chance at future success because in a sense (though I love the show to death & will always defend it) it was a really bad bastardization of the source material.

[Shred87]

I'll give you that... the turtles are in some case a victim of their time... When your talking about the Batmans and Supermans of the world they came out in the 30s. TV simply wasn't a factor then.. Even with the late 40 serials that came out the main material came from the comics so you get a much larger body of work to fall back on. The turtles came out and may have been rushed to the television. Then you throw in the TV show and the cowabunga's and the Krangs of the world really blurred comic/tv show line. Going back to what I said before how many people off the street would even know that Krang and cowabunga weren't even part of the original canon??

I see a lot of similarities between Batman and the turtles...The 60's Tv show kind of sent the view on the character for a loop with the campiness.. It really took close to 20 yrs to restore order (Dark Knight Returns/Year One... I wish the same would happen with the turtles but I can't say I'm too hopeful. Even though Nick may not be the same as the Rugrat days I just don't see them taking them any grittier than the 2k3 series.

I feel that the origin story is very strong and if done properly can be very gritty and very good in other media forms.. It's just when you start messing with space travel and all kinds of crazy aliens their story weakens. Look at what happened even with the 2k3 show with the Fast Foward season. I'm hoping Nick starts a comic seperate from the cartoon and lets someone start fresh. As radical as the Image volume is those stories would probably come off better than a lot of the space travel stuff in terms of movies/cartoons. After the first Mirage Volume the comic quality greatly dropped IMO.

[VaughnMichael]

There should be another option for "who cares".

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'd say yes, most definitely. I hate to say it, but I think the toons and movies probably generated more fans (whether they are still fans today or not would be the difference) than any of the comics sadly. Myself included - I'd love to read more of the comics as I've adored what I have read, but I never would have read them if it weren't for the toons.