Unbelievable...

[azrael]

Does anyone here believe in the manipulation of elements?

Fire, earth, air, water, and void...

I read the book of 5 rings almost like a bible. Each time I read it I feel as if I unlock a deeper or hidden meaning.
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[BubblyShell22]

Nope. I think it's too illogical like many other things.

[azrael]

How is it illogical? I know this maybe a stupid example but what about the history show where they find "real" superpowers? there are video on line of a guy from the 60's(?) egniting a news paper with just thought. What about shaolin monks? Are you a seeing is believing?
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[Venom]

I believe it's possible to a very limited degree since everything in its most basic form is nothing more than frequencies, vibrations, and wavelengths. Of course, our small size in comparison to the universe at large would make any disturbance we created seem like prestidigitation. There is certainly far more things that seems "illogical" that are perfectly natural and explainable, our limited knowledge only deems them as "illogical".

[shuriken]

Well considering that everything in it's most basic form is energyand atoms, than yes I do believe that we as humans do have this capacity to a very small degree manipulate fire, air, and water. Not so sure about earth though. Also taking into account what we see touch taste and smell is only like 1/100th of reality it would be "illogical" not to think that certain people have at least a miniscule amount of manipulative powers. My two cents

[Katie]

We do manipulate the elements.

Ever build a fire?


Use an air-conditioner? Or a fan?


Turn on or off a water faucet....or freeze or boil water?


Ever built a sand castle?

[shuriken]

^^ Touche'. Although I'm pretty sure Azrael meant something a little more along the lines of Airbender. Regardless, you win.:)

[ToTheNines]

Each time I read it I feel as if I unlock a deeper or hidden meaning.

Like what?

[azrael]

It seems like when I first read it I took it as surface value then the more I read it its almost as if my character and demeanor change like how to manipulate the elements with my self to perform when nessacary. (although it doesnt help with spelling ;)) Its wierd I really cant explain it i dont think. When I train it shows.
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[BubblyShell22]

Yes, I'm the type that doesn't believe in things unless I get proof. I'm just more of a logical person than most people I guess. I just don't see the logic in manipulating the elements in the way you've described. Katie's example is definitely proof that we can manipulate elements in our human way.

[azrael]

Katies way is more scientific, maybe alchemic. I can agree with that. Have you ever tried to do it? I think if you did you would have to get that mental block down (logical thinking).
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[Candy Kappa]

Sounds like a book Tigi Mataalii would write... or read

[azrael]

A quick search has him as a senior in kendo and judo with olympic medals ..... He has read it, I would almost bet he has. For anyone who is in a bad spot in life, takes martial arts, draws, writes, or almost anything can get something from THE BOOK OF FIVE RINGS, BY MIYAMOTO MUSASHI.
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[Candy Kappa]

A quick search has him as a senior in kendo and judo with olympic medals ..... He has read it, I would almost bet he has. For anyone who is in a bad spot in life, takes martial arts, draws, writes, or almost anything can get something from THE BOOK OF FIVE RINGS, BY MIYAMOTO MUSASHI.

yeah... did you also find he is a hack and a fake?

he claims to have won Olympics Medals in Judo and Karate in the 1968 Olympics. Two problems, one Karate is NOT a Olympic sport and Judo wasn't in event in 1968. and the videos you can find about him, he's just doing simple "magic" tricks, some he don't even do properly. :roll:

The man is also with a guy named Greg Parker and his cult of wannabee ninjas. They call them selves Choson Ninja and claims Ninjitsu and all kinds of martial arts comes from Korea and steals techniques from real schools and replicates them so poorly it's laughable.

best part with this group is that Greg their own leader ruined his own bluff by presenting a straight Katana sword and said it had been passed down for generations and was a genuine Ninja sword.

[azrael]

I did not know that I simply googled his name I did not click on the links....

Miyamoto Musashi is one of the greatest swordsmen of Japan.
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[Hannah]

Okay, seriously. This is why I've come to resent this section. Jesus f*cking Christ. This forums is full of idiots. I quit. I'm done.

[Koi]

I thought they were all being sarcastic... :l

[Katie]

Katies way is more scientific, maybe alchemic. I can agree with that. Have you ever tried to do it? I think if you did you would have to get that mental block down (logical thinking).

See, I stopped believing in magic when I was a little Katie. I don't believe that (in the way you're talking about anyway) manipulating matter is possible. Old hokey religions and whatnot. Now my ancestors believed in that kind of stuff...dream walking...shapeshifting...spirit guides and all that hooey. Know how you get those beliefs? Too much time in the smoke lodge.

[Candy Kappa]

Miyamoto Musashi is one of the greatest swordsmen of Japan.

you do know his book is philosophical and not literal?

Go Rin No Sho is a book about Martial Arts, Swordsmanship and military Strategy with a very heavy philosophical way of writing. It have nothing to do with elemental bending or magic, it's a bout becoming a better killer in combat.

and by this thread I'd say you did not get the meaning of the book, and I will be as rude to say I think you are not fit to read Go Rin No Sho.

[azrael]

Wow so I guess you are, congradulations. So you already knew musashi wrote the book of five rings to contain the hidden kata for his school, among other deeper meanings.... Also by the way your wrong, its not about being a better killer, its about being a better strategic person (thats why in some buisness schools you would read this). You sir are very immature to think its about killing. I also never said that its about bending elements like the last airbender. I simply ment the elements from within. I made 2 seperate statements maybe to talk about philosophies and if that did not work then maybe some people still believe in questionable things.
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[BubblyShell22]

I believe this is all a bunch of bullsh*t. And my logical thinking will never go away when something like this sounds so ridiculous. Even if I tried it, I wouldn't achieve it because it isn't real. Things like this are for fantasy novels and movies, not real life.

[azrael]

Are you talking about manipulating the elements

or

The book of five rings
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[Candy Kappa]

Immature for saying a bout about kenjutsu, combat strategy, fighting techniques and methods, using the five attitudes of swordsmanship, combat instincts, battle timing, leadership and the basic principals and techniques of his own school, is about killing? really?

Kenjutsu is about killing, any other statement is Idiocy.
"The primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means. Whenever you parry, hit, spring, strike or touch the enemy's cutting sword, you must cut the enemy in the same movement. It is essential to attain this. If you think only of hitting, springing, striking or touching the enemy, you will not be able actually to cut him."

Combat strategy can be applied to many things, because it's about strategy. So of course Business schools uses Book of Five Rings, they also uses The Art of War.

And reading your posts it do not look like you saw the book on a philosophical level, but more took it bit too literal.

"In battle, if you you make your opponent flinch, you have already won."

"You should not have any special fondness for a particular weapon, or anything else, for that matter. Too much is the same as not enough. Without imitating anyone else, you should have as much weaponry as suits you."

"Under the sword lifted high, There is hell making you tremble. But go ahead, And you have the land of bliss."

"Know your enemy, know his sword."

[BubblyShell22]

Are you talking about manipulating the elements

or

The book of five rings

I'm talking about the fact that you think manipulating the elements with your mind is real. It's not possible to do that. I did try it, and it didn't work. Thus, it is illogically impossible to do.

[azrael]

You said "it's a bout becoming a better killer in combat."

Then you quote Musashi "The primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means. Whenever you parry, hit, spring, strike or touch the enemy's cutting sword, you must cut the enemy in the same movement. It is essential to attain this. If you think only of hitting, springing, striking or touching the enemy, you will not be able actually to cut him."

Which to me that statement is about focus, I believe you are taking it literal.

Just because you got your book out and made quotes does not mean you understand it.

I am suprised you did not mention that each reader will get something different why not quote that?
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[azrael]

"I'm talking about the fact that you think manipulating the elements with your mind is real. It's not possible to do that. I did try it, and it didn't work. Thus, it is illogically impossible to do."

Entered with a bad mind set.
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[Hannah]

This is something universally understood to be fantasy. Please.

[plastroncafe]

I'm talking about the fact that you think manipulating the elements with your mind is real. It's not possible to do that. I did try it, and it didn't work. Thus, it is illogically impossible to do.

Some would say that it didn't happen for you because you lacked faith.

[愛]

Sometimes I wish I could live in a fantasyland where science is not applicable...but that would be crazy.

[Koi]

I forsee increased flaming as this thread continues, I do believe this thread needs to be locked before this happens.

[愛]

I'll be the judge of that. It's not nearly as bad yet. And remember, this is the VA.

[shuriken]

Not ruling out that it's impossible, but the book obviously has nothing to do with elemental manipulation. I never tried elemental manipulation other than the ways that Katie mentioned a page back but the book sounds interesting and I'll look into it. Read snipets of the art of War and enjoyed it, should read that one too.

[saiyan_monkey]

Well I might try learn how to fly, that seems easier. Faith or no faith this is just another fantasy.

[Candy Kappa]

but the book obviously has nothing to do with elemental manipulation.

exactly.

Don't really care if Azrael believes this book is about magical manipulation of the elements, that was the impression I got from this thread. Or just see it as a Philosophical point of being in control of your life.

And as Shuriken wrote I might read this book eventually, being one of a few selected my teacher recommended in a old email.

bit off topic, but calling Miyamoto Musashi by first name only, seems very disrespectful.

[azrael]

ok lets see if I can make this clear.

I asked a question then made a statement, you assumed. I did NOT say that the book of five rings teaches you elemental manipulation.

I was writing off the top of my head. All in all I was trying to see if anyone trains in anything. Most people that train the focus towards element manipulation seem to keep it a secret. Rightfully so I guess, since all the blasting someone could get. narrowminds.
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[Candy Kappa]

So you wanted to know if anyone train the way of elemental control by writing up a book that's not about controlling or manipulating the elements.... Interesting strategy of finding elemental controllers, I guess.

not sure why you brought up "Go Rin No Sho" when it's about elemental manipulation.
It's like taking Harry Potter 4 with you on a cooking seminar, not many recipes to find there.

and side note Shaolin Monks do not magically manipulate the elements, not sure why you brought them up in previous post. What they do is harden their body with years of hard training, physically and mentally. nothing supernatural

[azrael]

All in all I was trying to see if anyone trains in anything.
missed that didnt you...


I mentioned elements to see if anyone did... I just notice that when it comes to stuff like that, kinesis, witchcraft, just the odd and end things like that people do not talk about them. Due to the majority calling it illogical.

I mentioned the book of 5 rings because most martial artist and such know of this book and have read it.

Shoalin Monks have been known to do things that to others would seem illogical... Is all I was mentioning that for. Anything else.
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[shuriken]

^^ What Shaolin Monks do is they train their bodies to sustain large degrees of punishment without being hurt, as well as being able to dish out the same. They train their bodies by using their chi, of course this takes years of concentration and practice.

[azrael]

^^completely agree with you but you must admit to the average joe they do things that seem illogical...

I only mentioned Shoalin Monks as an exhibit to the logical thinker on this thread.
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[Candy Kappa]

All in all I was trying to see if anyone trains in anything.
missed that didnt you....

actually you only ask if anyone believes in the manipulation of the elements, not what people train. parapsychology or Martial Arts you could ask directly

and not sure if the VA section is the spot for a "what do you train" thread

[PAAATE]

I manipulated earth once. It was nothing special. :ohwell:

[Candy Kappa]

By punching out a candle light I control the Element Wind... oh wait

[BubblyShell22]

I manipulated water by flushing the toilet.

Seriously, the main topic was whether we believed in manipulating elements. I don't believe in it. Maybe it didn't work because I lacked faith, but I don't think faith has anything to do with it. Manipulating elements with the mind didn't work for me.

[azrael]

the what do you tran thread would not have been. But you do realize that there is more than one religion other than Christianity, element manipulation goes from alchemy to withcraft.


Since you wanted to quote Mushashi allow me...

"Thinking, "Who besides me in the world is going to attain direct communication in strategy?" and also "I will surely achieve this one day," train from morning till night. When in this manner you have finished polishing, you will spontaneously aquire freedom and excellent ability, and in this way will be able to gain supernatural power. This is the vital essence of practice of the method of the art of war."

BTW thats found in the fire scroll.
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[PAAATE]

Since you wanted to quote Mushashi allow me...

"Thinking, "Who besides me in the world is going to attain direct communication in strategy?" and also "I will surely achieve this one day," train from morning till night. When in this manner you have finished polishing, you will spontaneously aquire freedom and excellent ability, and in this way will be able to gain supernatural power. This is the vital essence of practice of the method of the art of war."

BTW thats found in the fire scroll.

I'm thinking two things:

1. Bad translation
or 2. Not meant to be taken literally.

[azrael]

He talks about it more in depth in other books about defeating his enemys by pushing them to the ground without touching them... At first I was thinking he is exaggerating his speed but when you read his work he doesnt seem to be an exaggerating type.
When he talks vital essence, he is speaking of chi. As some believe it can be used to do amazing things such as many forms of kinesis.
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[Candy Kappa]

checking the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu's grade list and technique list... nothing about supernatural abilities.

Chi is not to be taken literal, those who do are just being scammed by "ninjers" using simple magic tricks, like blowing out candle lights by punching, break stone bricks with newspapers or a glass cup. Chi can not make you do Hadoken or Naruto Ninja techniques, so simple is that.

simple note from the UK's official website of Niten Ichi Ryu, what the sections of the book of fire is about.

* Earth - The strategy of martial arts
* Water - The 'Two Heavens as One School' - Musashi's own school of swordsmanship
* Fire - The strategy of battle
* Wind - The study of other schools of swordsmanship
* Void - The understanding of the Way

Go Rin No Sho is also used as a training manual for all their sword and other weapon techniques, and the famous Katana and Wakizashi style.

EDIT: Oh, side note. Azrael, don't start with "there are more religions then one" thing now, if it turns to a religion discussion it might get locked. The whole what to do with religious topics ain't solved yet.

[azrael]

Thanks for the warning I forget about that I have been directed to the link like 3 times. (about religion)

Did you just read one of his books? The book of five rings. You know he wrote more right?
1.Hyodokyo (The Mirror of the Way of Strategy)
2.Hyoho Sanjugo Kajo (Thirty-five Instructions on Strategy)
3.Hyoho Shijuni Kajo (Forty-two Instructions on Strategy)
4.Dokkodo (The Way to be Followed Alone)
5.Go Rin No Sho (The Book of Five Rings)

Why you checked there grading for super-natural abilities I will never know.

BTW I know what each section of the book is about. Most of your typing is just trying to be a know-it-all (not trying to be mean). Chi is not to be taken literally!? Its the life force in which we are all connected, ok you win I can see thats what you want to hear. Thanks for the laugh "chi is not to be taken literally."


I quoted Miyamoto Musashi directly from the best translated copy to date.

http://www.amazon.com/Miyamoto-Musashi-His-Life-Writings/dp/0834805677/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286594017&sr=8-1-spell

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