NT; TNM's Triskadekaphobia Anniversary

[Guitar_Raph]

If you fear the #13 (definition of triskadekaphobia), then my friend, this season marks the 13th anniversary of Ninja Turtles; The Next Mutation.

What did you dislike (or like) about that series? The slapstick effects, costumes, Venus, playing as a band, Raph driving a motorcycle for the first time?

[Voidoid]

I'm more afraid of the next mutation than I am of the # 13.

[Cure]

I like being able to laugh at this show in that "so bad, it's good" kinda way. Pretty hilarious.

[CyberCubed]

Aside from Venus, the cheesy sound effects during the fight scenes ruined it.

Other than that it wasn't a terrible show for what it was. Just a cheesy live-action turtle show,

[KittenBunny]

Sorry about the length but if I really got into it, I could write pages on it so trust me this is really a short list/analysis!

Disclaimer: BTW please don't argue or disagree with me in any mean manner, as I state many times, this is my opinion and how things come across 'to me', I don't mean that any of what I say is fixed and thus should be gospel for all.


What made it for me?

1 it being live action! I prefer it to cartoon as its more believable; I can imagine that they could/do exist somehow in
reality!

2 The unique turtle design is exceptionally appealing to me:
- The diff. gear:
the more clothing/gear for protection in fights makes sense & takes away the 'naked/bare' look, and it just looks totally
hot! Also the fact each have their own unique bandanna design, belt & protective gear, really individualizes them &
gives them greater depth as characters
- The diff. body:
To me the armored plastrons look better than the soft fleshy traditional plastron. To me it makes them look more
'bad-ass' as it would provide greater protection in fights from injury; unlike soft flesh, which is easily injured. Turtles
plastrons are hard and bony anyway; ((I'm a licensed wild life rescuer and career and most of the injured, orphaned or
sick animals I deal with by choice are native turtles.. god I love them.. It’s expensive, hard and emotionally tough
voluntary work, our gov. dose not care enough about our native animals to pay for such a service, and the amount of
injuries these guys can sustain and pull through after being ran over by a car for instance is phenomenal, their ‘living’
armor is amazing.)) Also each NM turtle face/suit possess subtle facial differences and body variance between the four.
All of this gives their characters greater depth by enhancing and highlighting their individuality, rather than each
appearing like a simple carbon copy of the other with only a color change to differentiate them visually from each other.

3 The turtle lair was awesome; it was made into a real 'home' with a cozy funky wear-house bachelor pad feel with lots
of colorful vivid decorations and personal/home items everywhere. In this aspect the attention to detail was amazing.
The lair was given a fully livable layout, with basically all the necessary amenities; a kitchen area for mike, splinters
bedroom, the lounge room, gym etc (I sound like a real estate agent lol). This allowed us to see what they do in their
'down time'.. chillin, cooking & eating, playing, training, just living & acting like real people do at home, and that gave
us another side of the turtles we seldom see, their human side, their weaker side, which we can identify with; and
rather than being one dimensional mean green fighting machines we can see them in all their domestic bliss..doing
things like everyone else has to do to live - this is the girl in me that loves the idea of seeing them just 'being' at home,
playing house and imagining myself sharing a pizza and beer or some other cool beverage with them :P

4 Along with the lair, the Turtle Hummer V was awesome, it’s a really realistic and practical yet slick and badass vehicle
for a bunch of crime fighters! It was not too over the top and cartoony, but also not bland and boring like a normal
car/combi van... it was an awesome medium.

5 The theme song, logo and intro & outro was pretty cool, pretty mean and rockin’ for a kids show! The background
music (no not the cheesy sound clips during fights etc) was always really funky and cool, usually hip-hop. For example
this funky tune would play during the shots of the city… very appropriate setting music for NYC

6 The city montages and sewer shot cut aways were really slick and cool, they really set the scene, gave the show a
modern edge and also gave me a good 'feel' for NY and the Turtles home turf

7 As for VENUS? I personally am not the greatest fan of her, but I believe adding her (a female turtle) was a good idea.
Her design was great, but her characterisation was very poor. Why is a female a good idea? because lots of little girls
and big girls love TMNT and we want a hero of our own to not only represent how we can be green mutant ninja's too,
but if it/Venus was done right it would also give little girls a hero, someone to look up to, and would also allow little
boys to see that girls can be heros capable of great feats just like boys can...
One thing to note though, is that it should have been a made clear that she was abiological sister, and the boys should
not/NEVER been shown to have a crush on her or be romantically intersted... as that gives rise to concepts that are
too inappropriate for kids and are/should be way over their heads at that age... just imagine their mutant hero's
dating, mating and raising babies on the side and family incest... yuck.. that's some twisted soap opera material.
However, regarding the romance/mating thing, it would be fine for an adult graphic novel etc but not for a show that is
trying or should have tried to appeal to 'all ages' or at least a greater audience demographic than snot nosed brats.

Summary:
The overall concept regarding design and content was right there, but they just didn’t execute it in a manner that would allow it to remain timeless like the other series/platforms of the universe. They forgot about the history and us adult fans, and just aimed at pleasing their narrow demographic target audience of 8-13 year old boys and girls… if more thought and greater depth was given to the stories and the characters, and if it was taken a bit more seriously and some sort of subtext, with some hidden things/references in there for us adults (C'mon even Sesame St does this for crying out loud!!) then they could have made a radical show that would have been able to break demographical boundaries and appeal to all…and been a total winner thus remaining a timeless classic…. instead the bastards just wasted a great design and concept and ran it into the ground with poor execution and poor decisions allowing it to sadly be ruined for the later generations... blame it on Han Saban the twat... if I was in charge (or any fan with talent/ability) then things would have been a lot different, and people would be praising the Next Mutation instead of bashing it like they always do...

xx KB

PS.
I hope no one is offended by what I say, i'm not an elitist in any manner, I appreciate and love aspects of all of the TMNT universe, NM just holds a spot in my heart because it gave me the ability to see the turtles as believable and more than just crime fighters... I was able to see them as hot mutant guys who could do my dishes, clean the house, fix my sink and cook me some pizza pie dammit!! lol.... hahahah :) :P

Love KB

[Powder]

hot mutants

...What?

Don't tell me you're one of those fans.

[KittenBunny]

...What?

Don't tell me you're one of those fans.



:teek: GOD NO!! I’m not a furry by any means!! (took me a while to get what you meant)... I don't dream of pro creating with strange anthropomorphic creatures.... in Australia the word 'hot' is used as a colloquialism for stating that something is very very cool, like the height of cool... for example if you pass a store and see a pair of new release Adidas hi-cuts you'd say 'those are hot as' to your friend... it can apply to anything... Besides when I saw the Next Mutation for the first time I was about 13 or so and had no interest in eroticism over cartoons (and still don't), I was just your average comic loving super hero sci-fi tom-boyish girl fan hahah sorry I should have probably said something a little less confusable, now i'm embarressed YUCK EEEK!!

KittenBunny promptly exits the room running and screaming "BLASPHEMY" at the thought of a turtle with a boner.....

[Powder]

Lmfaoooooo, sorry about that. Once you get more into our fan base you'll see there are alot of... well, you get the point. I'm familiar with the use of the word "hot" in that context, I use it often. I just figured you meant it in an attraction sense because there are alot of weirdo fans who are into that, haha.

[KittenBunny]

Lmfaoooooo, sorry about that. Once you get more into our fan base you'll see there are alot of... well, you get the point. I'm familiar with the use of the word "hot" in that context, I use it often. I just figured you meant it in an attraction sense because there are alot of weirdo fans who are into that, haha.

Yeah I know, there are heaps of them, I'm a long time fan, not as nieve as you may think ;) dont let the nick name and love for the underdog fool you...I've seen it all on the net esp. deviant art.. they have comics, fan fic and pictures to match..also seen that infamous TMNT 'porno' video.. that gave me some serious lols, I laughed so hard that I hadnt laughed like that in a long time. That being said some of the artists that are furries actually have a tone of talent shown in their non X rated turtle art... but yes they just like things a little bit too differently hahah... I dont like being mean about people's likes or interests, but that reaches a zone that I dont understand, or want to really understand for that matter, but they are not causing any harm, they pretty much stick to their esoteric underground groups... lets hope there's no revolt! Anyway... please lets promptly drop the furry topic and get back onto something cooler or 'hotter' lol, like the Next Mutation! I love hearing people's opinions, both good and bad..

[Eiko]

I could not stand the show hated every part of it. When i watched the Power Rangers and Ninja Turtles crossover episode i felt so stupid being a ninja turtle fan.

[KittenBunny]

I could not stand the show hated every part of it. When i watched the Power Rangers and Ninja Turtles crossover episode i felt so stupid being a ninja turtle fan.

The power rangers cross over was totally gross, even for a NM fan... the voices were wrong, the acting was wrong and it was all just so wrong... empty trash... actually thats the perfect way to describe the way I felt after watching it... sort of sick empty feeling in my stomach, like my soul was destroyed, and I felt similar to that way after every power rangers episode I watched tbh which probably totaled one and a half episodes in all the cuts i saw on ads and the few times i switched over and 'tried' to like it just enough to take the hatred away lol. I was never a fan.. when Power Rangers came out in Auz and everyone went wild i bitterly hated them as I saw them as a threat against the turtles, and they were as they swamped the media and playgrounds and after wards the turtles were never to be heard of again... except the near silent fart that was Next Mutation hahah it didnt cause a stir at all over here, even i can joke about it.

xx KB

[Kali]

I'll once again say I thought the show had potential but was ruined by catering to the lowest demographic. The silly sound effects and slapstick action, the idiot villains, the idiot heroes, the lack of actual ninja-ness, the Hummer Jeep, are all negative points for me.

Now, I like the idea of a female turtle, but in this she was too Token Girl. I did like the designs for the most part, especially considering the budget they must have had. I loved the idea of the Turtles becoming older and more individual and having that drift change the dynamic.

Overall: Not my favorite but it gets my creative juices flowing wanting to play with the ideas.

[Candy Kappa]

think I have written most of what I mean about the show.

but as a summary

The show is so bad (horrible?) it's good.... ish. The slapstick, beyond stupid sound effects, bad designs. A plastron is a plastron not a leathery sixpack. wrong usage of the word Shinobi... do a little research. The rank was a joke. older but less mature, urr what? The foot lacked proper uniforms and looked silly. over-usage of clip episodes much?

[Koi]

I loved how stupid, and slapstick funny this show was. Most cartoons are stupid, and/or slapstick funny.

[KittenBunny]

think I have written most of what I mean about the show.

but as a summary

The show is so bad (horrible?) it's good.... ish. The slapstick, beyond stupid sound effects, bad designs. A plastron is a plastron not a leathery sixpack. wrong usage of the word Shinobi... do a little research. The rank was a joke. older but less mature, urr what? The foot lacked proper uniforms and looked silly. over-usage of clip episodes much?

Thats true but it was a kids show, and so I guess they wanted to add some magical aspect sort of like they do in sci-fi shows, in which words are used out of context, and wrong deffinition use, its just suppose to be 'believable' or make sense in the 'world' of the NM eg. there is no way in hell the ancient one could have been a kung fu master with his obesity and also disrespectful nature, and how about all the super powers they ended up getting during the later season of the 2K3. I dont like how they use the word out of context either personally, but yes its just done for the brats, so they believe it and thats all they really cared about... creating a show where the fiction could be believed by a young kid, not for us adults.. its sad, the show would have done much better have they been accurate and cared about things like this

[Candy Kappa]

Thats true but it was a kids show, and so I guess they wanted to add some magical aspect sort of like they do in sci-fi shows, in which words are used out of context, and wrong deffinition use, its just suppose to be 'believable' or make sense in the 'world' of the NM eg. there is no way in hell the ancient one could have been a kung fu master with his obesity and also disrespectful nature, and how about all the super powers they ended up getting during the later season of the 2K3. I dont like how they use the word out of context either personally, but yes its just done for the brats, so they believe it and thats all they really cared about... creating a show where the fiction could be believed by a young kid, not for us adults.. its sad, the show would have done much better have they been accurate and cared about things like this

I never mentioned anything about the magic part, but the use of the word Shinobi wrong.

A shinobi is not a magic user, or a Chinese shaman as they used it or in the NM show. Shinobi are just another word for Ninja

[Fugitoid Jones]

I generally thought this show failed on many different levels. I didn't find it funny, I disliked the voice acting, the villains sucked, and everything else that annoyed me has been addressed already (slapstick,goofy sound effects, etc)

However, I don't find it unwatchable. It is kinda entertaining to a degree. I'm not crazy about the Turtle costumes, but I think they look better than the ones used in the Coming Out Of Our Shells Tour, and even better than the 3rd movie suits. And the action scenes, for what they were, weren't too bad.

[KittenBunny]

I never mentioned anything about the magic part, but the use of the word Shinobi wrong.

A shinobi is not a magic user, or a Chinese shaman as they used it or in the NM show. Shinobi are just another word for Ninja

Thats what I meant, I agreed with you that they were misusing the word 'Shinobi' to mean something it didnt. What I meant was that I guess they used the word Shinobi in this way as the context of it's use is different, it is been used in a 'make believe universe of a fictional kids show', so like in sci-fi shows words are either made up or misused in a scientific sense so that it gives 'rational' to the fantastical events that are occurring on screen and thus they appear more 'real' to the viewer or believable... ie. it allows the audience's suspention of disbelief.

In my own studies of Kung Fu under my Sifu, as I got to the higher grades and learned more, some of the teachings and theories seemed 'pretty out there' to me as they were not inline with or completely against mainstream scientific theory/fact ie. theories about chi and the universe and mastering one's own chi flow to create greater energy in strikes, past lives and past life regression etc. This knowledge is held in an esteemed secretive manner by Sifu and his students - one must train hard to earn the right to be told the knowledge and as you get higher and higher more and more is revealed..

Unfortunately I got seriously sick and under medical advice I had to stop my training (which was heartbreaking) so I dont know too much more... But from what I gather I guess the reasoning behind using the word 'Shinobi' in the way they did was to highlight this mental/universal or 'mystical' part of martial arts, enhance it into something more fantastical (magical) and thus more appealing to kids... so they made this Venus' specific talent (her unique understanding of these secrets) and to signify this speciality they decided to use the word Shinobi, rather than something like 'witch' or 'sharman' as it is essentially more appropriate in the context of the show's fictional world as it sounds more 'martial arts/asiany' than those other words and it is also a word that exists.... I mean making up an entirely new fictional word might have been too much effort for them at the time, let alone kinda dumb.

Anyway that’s my theory on the matter, the words meaning was simply changed around to suit the show’s universe and so it could be used to reinforce the mythology of the show. And rather than making up an entirely new word to do this, they simply chose to use an existing word but changed its meaning around by focusing solely on the mystical part of the teachings of Ninjitsu so that the word could be used to refer to this exclusively and therefore Venus could be distinguished as being different than her brothers in her fighting skills.

Apologies on the length… Im really tired and I know this is verbose but I hope it makes sense oh man im tired, so im finding it hard to string words together and make sense to what I am trying to say and its only 11:30 pm

Xxx kb

[Candy Kappa]

problem is, Venus is not a ninja either, magical or not. Her master is Chinese and took her to China, so no ninjutso training for her. At least they could do some research and find a proper Chinese word/name for what she is, and not bastardize a name that have nothing to do with Chinese magic wielders.

It's like calling a turtle a pineapple.

[Redeemer]

Sorry about the length but if I really got into it, I could write pages on it so trust me this is really a short list/analysis!

Disclaimer: BTW please don't argue or disagree with me in any mean manner, as I state many times, this is my opinion and how things come across 'to me', I don't mean that any of what I say is fixed and thus should be gospel for all.


What made it for me?

1 it being live action! I prefer it to cartoon as its more believable; I can imagine that they could/do exist somehow in
reality!

2 The unique turtle design is exceptionally appealing to me:
- The diff. gear:
the more clothing/gear for protection in fights makes sense & takes away the 'naked/bare' look, and it just looks totally
hot! Also the fact each have their own unique bandanna design, belt & protective gear, really individualizes them &
gives them greater depth as characters
- The diff. body:
To me the armored plastrons look better than the soft fleshy traditional plastron. To me it makes them look more
'bad-ass' as it would provide greater protection in fights from injury; unlike soft flesh, which is easily injured. Turtles
plastrons are hard and bony anyway; ((I'm a licensed wild life rescuer and career and most of the injured, orphaned or
sick animals I deal with by choice are native turtles.. god I love them.. It’s expensive, hard and emotionally tough
voluntary work, our gov. dose not care enough about our native animals to pay for such a service, and the amount of
injuries these guys can sustain and pull through after being ran over by a car for instance is phenomenal, their ‘living’
armor is amazing.)) Also each NM turtle face/suit possess subtle facial differences and body variance between the four.
All of this gives their characters greater depth by enhancing and highlighting their individuality, rather than each
appearing like a simple carbon copy of the other with only a color change to differentiate them visually from each other.

3 The turtle lair was awesome; it was made into a real 'home' with a cozy funky wear-house bachelor pad feel with lots
of colorful vivid decorations and personal/home items everywhere. In this aspect the attention to detail was amazing.
The lair was given a fully livable layout, with basically all the necessary amenities; a kitchen area for mike, splinters
bedroom, the lounge room, gym etc (I sound like a real estate agent lol). This allowed us to see what they do in their
'down time'.. chillin, cooking & eating, playing, training, just living & acting like real people do at home, and that gave
us another side of the turtles we seldom see, their human side, their weaker side, which we can identify with; and
rather than being one dimensional mean green fighting machines we can see them in all their domestic bliss..doing
things like everyone else has to do to live - this is the girl in me that loves the idea of seeing them just 'being' at home,
playing house and imagining myself sharing a pizza and beer or some other cool beverage with them :P

4 Along with the lair, the Turtle Hummer V was awesome, it’s a really realistic and practical yet slick and badass vehicle
for a bunch of crime fighters! It was not too over the top and cartoony, but also not bland and boring like a normal
car/combi van... it was an awesome medium.

5 The theme song, logo and intro & outro was pretty cool, pretty mean and rockin’ for a kids show! The background
music (no not the cheesy sound clips during fights etc) was always really funky and cool, usually hip-hop. For example
this funky tune would play during the shots of the city… very appropriate setting music for NYC

6 The city montages and sewer shot cut aways were really slick and cool, they really set the scene, gave the show a
modern edge and also gave me a good 'feel' for NY and the Turtles home turf

7 As for VENUS? I personally am not the greatest fan of her, but I believe adding her (a female turtle) was a good idea.
Her design was great, but her characterisation was very poor. Why is a female a good idea? because lots of little girls
and big girls love TMNT and we want a hero of our own to not only represent how we can be green mutant ninja's too,
but if it/Venus was done right it would also give little girls a hero, someone to look up to, and would also allow little
boys to see that girls can be heros capable of great feats just like boys can...
One thing to note though, is that it should have been a made clear that she was abiological sister, and the boys should
not/NEVER been shown to have a crush on her or be romantically intersted... as that gives rise to concepts that are
too inappropriate for kids and are/should be way over their heads at that age... just imagine their mutant hero's
dating, mating and raising babies on the side and family incest... yuck.. that's some twisted soap opera material.
However, regarding the romance/mating thing, it would be fine for an adult graphic novel etc but not for a show that is
trying or should have tried to appeal to 'all ages' or at least a greater audience demographic than snot nosed brats.

Summary:
The overall concept regarding design and content was right there, but they just didn’t execute it in a manner that would allow it to remain timeless like the other series/platforms of the universe. They forgot about the history and us adult fans, and just aimed at pleasing their narrow demographic target audience of 8-13 year old boys and girls… if more thought and greater depth was given to the stories and the characters, and if it was taken a bit more seriously and some sort of subtext, with some hidden things/references in there for us adults (C'mon even Sesame St does this for crying out loud!!) then they could have made a radical show that would have been able to break demographical boundaries and appeal to all…and been a total winner thus remaining a timeless classic…. instead the bastards just wasted a great design and concept and ran it into the ground with poor execution and poor decisions allowing it to sadly be ruined for the later generations... blame it on Han Saban the twat... if I was in charge (or any fan with talent/ability) then things would have been a lot different, and people would be praising the Next Mutation instead of bashing it like they always do...

xx KB

PS.
I hope no one is offended by what I say, i'm not an elitist in any manner, I appreciate and love aspects of all of the TMNT universe, NM just holds a spot in my heart because it gave me the ability to see the turtles as believable and more than just crime fighters... I was able to see them as hot mutant guys who could do my dishes, clean the house, fix my sink and cook me some pizza pie dammit!! lol.... hahahah :) :P

Love KB

Wow interesting. I actaully agree with u on the few paragraphs I read. To lazy to read the rest of ur post. :tcool:

[KittenBunny]

Regarding the misuse of the word "shinobi" I agree with some of your points however I''d rather not continue to dwell on semantics, because there are greater reasons as to why the show left such a bitter taste in our TMNT loving mouths.

Wow interesting. I actaully agree with u on the few paragraphs I read. To lazy to read the rest of ur post. :tcool:

Thanks, at least someone reads and can understand the points I'm trying to get across.. as for text length, I understand its tiresome to read and im sorry, I just get carried away and tend to type a lot since I have a lot to say. I know this turns people off reading posts but how else can I address these major worldwide life threatening concerns!! unless I break the rules and do double or triple postings! :P

So yeah, like I said the concept was there but they either forgot or intentionally neglected to cater at all to existing fans, and were therefore crazy to think that such a concoction could ever work by maintaining popularity and gaining a place in TMNT history like its predecessors.

I find the plight of The Next Mutation so infuriating and upsetting as the concept had so much promise and it could have been an amazing piece of work, but instead it was squandered and destroyed by jackasses.

What kind of fool would neglect the major existing fan base in the conception and execution of a remake/retake of such a major historical series?... and even then with its sole target audience being children, it was still quite poorly done. But the most shocking and baffling atrocity was the fact that Europe and Israel got full uncut episodes which possessed much greater quality and depth than the butchered and badly cut together sloppy nonsensical short episodes that the West got (US,UK,AUZ) ? What FOOL not only neglects the major fan base of a franchise but also neglects the major demographics of their target audience! TMNT was born in America and became an integral part of Western culture/pop-culture and history. So bearing this in mind, what kind of retarded moron does this? I think they must have all been on drugs at the time.

Oh well, for now I'll have to be content with watching the real NM episodes which I love so much in a language that I can barely understand... and no, none of the European or Israeli issues have English subtitles either... I better get cracking on my Hebrew...

Sad KittenBunny signing off

[dingodile555]

Oh I love my Next Mutation. I was just little when the series was running, so it was my introduction to TMNT, although I had soon watched the cartoon and the movies as well. It still holds a special place for that, and it is fun to watch. I just love the general feel of it. I could understand why someone watching it today would think its a load of crap, or someone who was a bit older when it came out, but I really dig it and its all just a bit of fun. I found the new characters interesting as well, for the most part. Dr Quease and Vam Mi are my favorites, although Dragonlord is rather awesome as well.

The main thing that annoys me about it though, is that those silly sound effects are brutally overused later on, and the cheese factor could get a bit too ridiculous even for my tastes.

[Koi]

Why argue about the shinobi crap? I could argue that the teenage mutant ninja turtles are in fact not ninjas if we are actually going to get into that type of talk.

The show was so cheesy it was funny. I loved those dumb sound effects that were so off with everything going around, just made it that much better.

NM is like watching a car crash.

[Discogod]

The Next Mutation totally passed me by. I was pretty much done with TMNT & toys in general by '93, and the comics weren't appealing any more. I hadn't actually heard of it until I started lurking here.

Now I've done a bit of research and looked at some pics (although I can't bring myself to watch an episode) it seems exactly like the kind of thing which turned me off on the TMNT cartoon in the first place...

[KittenBunny]

Oh I love my Next Mutation. I was just little when the series was running, so it was my introduction to TMNT, although I had soon watched the cartoon and the movies as well. It still holds a special place for that, and it is fun to watch. I just love the general feel of it. I could understand why someone watching it today would think its a load of crap, or someone who was a bit older when it came out, but I really dig it and its all just a bit of fun. I found the new characters interesting as well, for the most part. Dr Quease and Vam Mi are my favorites, although Dragonlord is rather awesome as well.

The main thing that annoys me about it though, is that those silly sound effects are brutally overused later on, and the cheese factor could get a bit too ridiculous even for my tastes.

Yeah I second that, if they dropped the sound effects the quality of the show would have been boosted at least by %50 for me and I would have enjoyed it much more!!

I was just entering High School, year 7 (i think in the US they call this freshman?) and was around 14 when I came across the NM. I saw the toys first and was ecstatic as I was a long time fan of the original series and collector of all TMNT items, but being in australia, I could only find tmnt products at the markets and their quality was always so poor, so when NM came out I was head over heels in love as it filled that hole in my heart that yearned for more Ninja Turtle stuff..

KB x