Should Tengu Shredder have been in Turtles Forever

[Utromshredderhater]

Well, he was supposed to be the actual Shredder for that dimension

[CyberCubed]

No.

Ch'rell was still the main Shredder of TMNT 2k3.

[Spitfire]

Chrell was also the most dangerous and caused the most damage out of any Shredder from any incarnation. He killed entire planets of people, which is more then the Demon Shredder ever did. I think he was the main villain to express how he was the biggest threat out of all the Shredders.

[ToTheNines]

Tengu Shredder is a lame villain because he has no motivation other than the fact that he's "pure evil".

Ch'rell *hated* the TMNT... which is why he set out to destroy the whole multiverse in the first place. Plus, if they used Tengu Shredder it wouldn't have been easy to bring in other characters like Hun and Karai. And he also would have no need for the Technodrome, he's too powerful.

I could literally go on all day as to why they didn't use him, but I think I'll stop now.

[Utromshredderhater]

Ch'rell was nothing more than chewed up alien gum hiding in a metal shell that almost killed the character of the Shredder for those who grew up with it

[ToTheNines]

Ch'rell was nothing more than chewed up alien gum hiding in a metal shell that almost killed the character of the Shredder for those who grew up with it

I got news for ya, Demon Shredder wasn't a damn thing like the Shredder we "grew up with" either.

[Utromshredderhater]

I got news for ya, Demon Shredder wasn't a damn thing like the Shredder we "grew up with" either.

It was better than the brain alien, though in the long run neither of them were the way to go

[ToTheNines]

I, for one, am totally happy with him being an alien. It gave the writers an excuse to kill the character off and then bring him back. I hate that kind of sh*t with human characters.

[Spitfire]

I saw him as an attempt to combine Krang and Shredder into one character. I thought that to be pretty obvious.

The Shredder you grew up with was a bumbling incompetent villain who was only ever threatening in the first season of the series. After that he become a complete joke until the Red Sky episodes where they gave him some gusto again. He could be beaten with "slap stick" fighting. The turtles needed something threatening to fight not an idiot in a fancy tin suit. I liked the OT but that Shredder has no business near the 2K3 series, as was made apparent in Turtles Forever.

[Xav]

Yes they should've had Tengu Shredder return with all the hype about him being the real Shredder. Instead of having the imposter return. And Ch'rell was called the "true Shredder". It was like they were trying to pretend the Tengu Shredder never existed.

[ToTheNines]

I saw him as an attempt to combine Krang and Shredder into one character. I thought that to be pretty obvious.

I disagree. This show was heavily influenced by Laird, I think he/they just wanted to make the Shredder tie in to the turtles history even more than he did in the comics, so they made him an Utrom. Plus it sets up the climax of "Return to New York" perfectly (for a kid's show).

Yes they should've had Tengu Shredder return with all the hype about him being the real Shredder. Instead of having the imposter return. And everyone was called Ch'rell the "true Shredder". It was like they were trying to pretend the Tengu Shredder never existed.

*facepalm*.... There was a lot of "hype" about him being the real Shredder in season 5, why play that old routine out again in a movie? Also, you're totally wrong in saying that "everyone was calling Ch'rell the 'true Shredder'." Only his minions were calling him that. Of course they'd call him that.

[Xav]

But it made no sense why Hun told the Turtles "the true Shredder has returned" when both he and the Turtles knew he was an imposter.

[Redeemer]

I think the demon shredder would have been interesting to in TMNT forever, but I don't know how he would have been incorperated. I would have like to see more of the comic book shredder! That would have been awesome:tgrin:

[Candy Kappa]

But it made no sense why Hun told the Turtles "the true Shredder has returned" when both he and the Turtles knew he was an imposter.

because Ch'rell was the most dangerous and capable of the shredders. And I'm pretty sure that was a title Ch'rell himself made his minions call him, he was after all a megalomaniac set on destroying the very existence of the multiverse

[Utromshredderhater]

because Ch'rell was the most dangerous and capable of the shredders. And I'm pretty sure that was a title Ch'rell himself made his minions call him, he was after all a megalomaniac set on destroying the very existence of the multiverse

Now hold up, What about movie Shredder?

[k_lala]

No he died perfectly in Ninja Tribunal. He should have never showed up in BTTS, they ruined everything!

[Candy Kappa]

Now hold up, What about movie Shredder?

what?

Not sure if you can compare a destroyer of worlds and committed genocide on a grand scale, versus a Ninja master who uses misguided kids to do the dirty work.

[Utromshredderhater]

what?

Not sure if you can compare a destroyer of worlds and committed genocide on a grand scale, versus a Ninja master who uses misguided kids to do the dirty work.

Still preferable over a brain alien who stole the name

[ToTheNines]

Still preferable over a brain alien who stole the name

We never get Saki's full background in the movies... he could have stolen the name as well and we'd never know the difference.

[Utromshredderhater]

We never get Saki's full background in the movies... he could have stolen the name as well and we'd never know the difference.

Let's not try and make to big a mystery out of it

[shuriken]

No he died perfectly in Ninja Tribunal. He should have never showed up in BTTS, they ruined everything!

This. The bastard got cut in half by the TMNT's image of Yoshi. His appearance in BTTS was bogus and null.
Ch'rell was the best Shredder because he not only was he egotistical, viscious, and conniving but was the best fighter of all the Shredders, that we saw at least. The original Oroku Saki was awesome in the Flashback when he fought the Tengu, but when he fought the TMNT all he did was throw green energy and turn into a Dragon. LAME.
Cyber SHredder was ok, but a complete copy of CH'rell.
Karai was like Shredder lite.
Plus Ch'rell had the best reason to be in the movie. His centuries old empire was destroyed by four freaks and their Rat Master, who was the pet of an old enemy which when he killed him was more of an after thought than a sworn enemy. Plus he was sentenced to an icy grave because of them.
The TMNT were at first just an annoyance interferring with his plans. Then they became a constant thorn on his side. After that they became pretty much the bane of existance, so much so that he would do anything to get his revenge. Even destroy himself.

[sdp]

Tengu Shredder** is easily shown to be much more powerful and dangerous than Chr'ell ever was, I don't think anyone would actually try to debate against that. Theres no way Chrell could have defeated Tengu Shredder in fact I'd even go as far as to say that the Lost Season finale felt more epic and the stakes where higher than Turtles Forever, really the only thing TF has going for it is that it was all the TMNT multiverse but that was more because of luck.

I do think Tengu Shredder is indeed the 2k3 universe's real Shredder however he didn't really have any reason to appear in Turtles Forever mostly because he's a demon with supernatural powers and as much as I hate Ch'rell calling himself the "One true Shredder" of the Multiverse at least it gave him one more confrontation with the turtles which IMO was needed after the awful defeat the turtles had and Deus-Ex Machina ending of Season 3.

Technically Chrell IS the Shredder in the 2k3 universe, I'm just not a fan that he usurped the name Oroku Saki/Shredder, maybe I'd feel different if he had created the name Oroku Saki by himself or that was his actual Utrom name. However the "real" Oroku Saki also did not fit the role of Shredder so I never felt 2k3 had a "real" Shredder. I know my reasons may be silly but what the hey its my opinion.

** though technically in show he is called The Shredder Tengu

The Shredder you grew up with was a bumbling incompetent villain who was only ever threatening in the first season of the series. After that he become a complete joke until the Red Sky episodes where they gave him some gusto again. He could be beaten with "slap stick" fighting. The turtles needed something threatening to fight not an idiot in a fancy tin suit. I liked the OT but that Shredder has no business near the 2K3 series, as was made apparent in Turtles Forever.

I wholeheartedly disagree when watching through the OT I've noticed that when the Shredder actually fought with the turtles (which sadly didn't happen to often) he was always portrayed as a threat and not only that he was always portrayed as stronger than even all 4 turtles at the same time. I don't think he was ever actually defeated in hand to hand combat it was always because of some other factor and not skill. Sure the Shredder's plans always failed but when it came to a final battle with him he was a threat. Most of the slapstick was usually Rocksteady/Beebop. This is especially why I especially hated his interpretation in Turtles Forever, sure he always made jokes and complained pathetically about how his plans didn't work but thats not all he did like shown in the movie he was a indeed an expert martial artist. But of course this didn't fit well with Laird's thoughts of "Oh the OT exists to make fun of how silly things were back then".

[Galactus]

No. Ch'rell was the main villain of the 2003 series. Seeing as Turtles Forever was a farewell to that series then it's fitting that he should be the villain.

The character was also something truly unique to that series, the special should highlight that. Also as others have said it's kind of neat that when the series started he considered the turtles minor thorns in his side and gradualy he grew to hate them to the point where he was obsessed with wiping every ninja turtle in creation.

Saki/Tengu Shredder probably wouldn't have bothered seeking revenge on the turtles but done another conquer the world story. Not to mention he dead with a capital D they even destroyed the means he could be ressurected with.

when watching through the OT I've noticed that when the Shredder actually fought with the turtles (which sadly didn't happen to often) he was always portrayed as a threat and not only that he was always portrayed as stronger than even all 4 turtles at the same time. I don't think he was ever actually defeated in hand to hand combat it was always because of some other factor and not skill. Sure the Shredder's plans always failed but when it came to a final battle with him he was a threat. Most of the slapstick was usually Rocksteady/Beebop. This is especially why I especially hated his interpretation in Turtles Forever, sure he always made jokes and complained pathetically about how his plans didn't work but thats not all he did like shown in the movie he was a indeed an expert martial artist. But of course this didn't fit well with Laird's thoughts of "Oh the OT exists to make fun of how silly things were back then".

What OT episodes are you actualy watching? While it's definitely erroneous that Shredder was only a competent fighter in the first and eighth seasons he was pretty much a bungler throughout the series.

He was generally portrayed as a good fighter in the second season although the example everyone gives of his skills in The Incredible Shrinking Turtles I think he beats turtles way too easily.

A handful of times scattered around the rest of the series doesn't excuse all the other times like when he tripped and fell into a pool which made him turn him into a baby getting tickled by Krang and Rocksteady or when he didn't dodge the retro mutagen beam and got turned into a tiny fly complete with li'l Shredder helmet begging Bebop & Rocksteady to help him.

I've often found Shredder to a clutz and bungler but often blaming it on Bebop & Rocksteady. In The Making of Metalhead the master ninja gets encased in cement, in Beware the Lotus he is literaly tarred and feathered and in Night of Rogues he is picked up and thrown into oil with zero resistance.

There is a case for how the '87 turtles were portrayed "wrong" in Turtles Forever but not Shredder. They nailed him and his married couple relationship with Krang perfect. A giggle ray is very fitting for a guy who started a weird pizzaria with an anchovy homeing beacon or became a pirate radio DJ to hypnotize New Yorkers.

[k_lala]

I'm going to pretend BTTS never existed.

[Xav]

I was kind of sick of Ch'rell by the time Turtles Forever happened I was actually hoping Krang and OT Shredder would have cut him open when they gassed him.

[Avatar Yuffie]

IMHO they shouldn't have used the One True Shredder disclaimer. It just brought confusion to the viewers of the 4Kids cartoon.

I think Ch'rell was used so there'd be a good excuse why Karai and Hun would hang around in the finale. Shame Baxter wasn't around, that would have completed the Foot posse.

Also I'm giving respect points to 87 Shredder (his character is really nailed in the film, pity 87 Leo and Don aren't). He's the only Shredder who helped the Turtles and survived the movie in the end (with a brand new Technodrome!). Think about it.

[Xav]

There was a lot of "hype" about him being the real Shredder in season 5, why play that old routine out again in a movie? Well why play the old "Ch'rell wants to kill the Turtles" routine out again?

Ch'rell was the best Shredder because he not only was he egotistical, viscious, and conniving but was the best fighter of all the Shredders, that we saw at least. Ch'rell was not a good fighter he had to use machines to fight all the time he was nothing more than a glorified video game player.

[triplexxx]

I was frankly ok with the whole Shredder finale regardless of which Shredder used or claimed to be the true one, as was stated in Turtles Forever, what was commonplace about every Shredder in every universe was the "big, fat ego" and that trait remained true. Ch'rell making that claim helped enforce that.

[gobo]

as was stated in Turtles Forever, what was commonplace about every Shredder in every universe was the "big, fat ego" and that trait remained true. Ch'rell making that claim helped enforce that.
Dude... I think you've figured it out. Nice work!

[Xav]

The thing that really bugged me was that they didn't even acknowledge the real Shredder. When OT Shredder searched his computer for Shredder why didn't it show all the other 2k3 universe Shredders?

[triplexxx]

Probably because at the point in time he arrived in in that universe they were dead.

[k_lala]

The Ninja Tribunal was a perfect epic ending to the Origin's of the Shredder saga, a perfect ending to the series as well. Fast Forward and BTTS were just side projects to the series to me that really weren't the true essence of what the 2K3 series was all about.

This post for whatever reason upsets me. Not that the TS intended to do so, but like what most people have stated already! NO the Tengu Shredder should not have shown up and i'm glad he didn't, all the shredders were dead except for one and that was the main one throughout the show which was Chrell. There was still unfinished business there.

The way that Tengu Shredder (Original Oroku Saku) died was PERFECT! What happen in BTTS was a disgrace to the series!! I'm blocking out that never happened. It was the worst writing in the history of TMNT. It upsets me so much i just don't even want to talk about it. URRRGHHH!!!

[gobo]

Probably because at the point in time he arrived in in that universe they were dead.
Karai was dead? Holy ka-ka! Her role in Forever has just gotten that much more interesting. :P