What do you think could have improved Volume 4?

[CyberCubed]

Let's say the, "plot" had to be very similar to what PL has already written, but what tweaks here and there would you have done to improve Volume 4?

- Pacing. Volume 4 is the type of series that is meant to be read in one or two sittings. Since the story progresses so little each issue, the pacing is what kills enjoyment of the story, especially since each arc only gets 4-5 pages each issue.

If Volume 4 ever ends, reading the entire story in one or two sittings will mean pacing is no longer an issue.

- I would have liked Michael Dooney or Dan Berger to do the artwork for each issue. I know it was very unlikely, but the book would have been more visually appealing.

- I would finish some story arcs before starting a new one. The problem with Vol. 4 is PL has like 7 different plotlines going on at the same time. If he focused on a few at a time instead of juggling them all at once, the story would have flowed better and once again the pacing would have been neater.


What would you have done?

[azrael]

I would of had each mirage artist on a different character since it is technically each with its own views and story.

Thought boxes/bubbles for a more serious story

a more greatful creator, instead of "I AM UNHAPPY WITH LIFE SO I AM GOING TO B!TCH ABOUT 25 YEARS OF TURTLES, THIS IS MINE, NOT YOURS, MINE. TO THE FANS THANK YOU I REALLY APPRICIATE ALL THE MONEY YOU MADE ME, EFF OFF. OH BY THE WAY THE BEST WAY TO CELEBRATE TMNT 25 IS TO SELL IT TO ANOTHER COMPANY GREAT WAY TO BRING IN THE PARTY."

also released the last 6 issues to finish it up.
tmnt 32 Leonardo's story
tmnt 33 Donatello's story
tmnt 34 Michelangelo's story
tmnt 35 Rapheal's story
tmnt 36 April and Casey's story
tmnt 37 (this would be the "death" of the turtles, to give them a final end, to mirage tmnt)
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[gobo]

What do you think could have improved Volume 4?
Eastman's input would have been nice.

[sdp]

Eastman's input would have been nice.

I read today that Eastman is the one that brought all the 'realistic' and gritty to the turtles and Laird is the one that brought the sci-fi elements and you can tell who writes each story because of it, how true is that? It seems to make sense but i'm not familiar with the comics so I don't know how true it is.

[azrael]

that would make sense, I mean everything in vol 4 screams sci-fi and vol 1 was a mixture of almost everything.
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[oldmanwinters]

Eastman's input would have been nice.

Quoted for truth!:lol:

[Galactus]

The are a few tweaks here and there that could be made so that I personaly would like it better but I like it fine as it is. Vol. 4 has a unique identity and I don't think any amount small changes could alter that.

I would finish some story arcs before starting a new one. The problem with Vol. 4 is PL has like 7 different plotlines going on at the same time. If he focused on a few at a time instead of juggling them all at once, the story would have flowed better and once again the pacing would have been neater.

The flaw with this is that apparently most of the plotlines are supposed to be or were originaly intended to be connected to each other or so Laird has hinted in some of his answers to letters.

a more greatful creator, instead of "I AM UNHAPPY WITH LIFE SO I AM GOING TO B!TCH ABOUT 25 YEARS OF TURTLES, THIS IS MINE, NOT YOURS, MINE. TO THE FANS THANK YOU I REALLY APPRICIATE ALL THE MONEY YOU MADE ME, EFF OFF. OH BY THE WAY THE BEST WAY TO CELEBRATE TMNT 25 IS TO SELL IT TO ANOTHER COMPANY GREAT WAY TO BRING IN THE PARTY."

TMNT made a lot of people money, not just Laird. If we're talking about money then it'd be fair to point out that Laird apparenly lost a small fortune keeping the comics going out of his own pocket. Not to mention he also chipped in money to keep the animated series going as well as other turtle related projects.

Keeping the franchise going for years for a small group of fans even when commercialy it's against you isn't to be overlooked imo. Of course I'm assuming he was hoping that if he kept going things would pick up again. Add to the pressure that fans bleated on relentlessly about how everything he did sucked and was wrong, selling it off when his heart was no longer in is probably the biggest fanservice he could do.

Eastman's input would have been nice.

In a way we apparently had it. In the editorial of the first issue Laird said they were going to work on a series together with connected offices so they could pass stuff back and forth. He said that he was going to use ideas for that series in vol.4.

An actual collaboration after Kevin sold to Peter seems unlikely. In his Newrama interview Eastman pretty much states that he doesn't want to work on TMNT in general and especialy not with Laird. Of course that particular interview was just bizarre with some claims that just weren't true.

It's sad considering that prior to reading it Laird was considering calling him up to work on something for the anivairsary but after that he decided not to.

I read today that Eastman is the one that brought all the 'realistic' and gritty to the turtles and Laird is the one that brought the sci-fi elements and you can tell who writes each story because of it, how true is that? It seems to make sense but i'm not familiar with the comics so I don't know how true it is.

Not very. I've heard this bandied about and I can see where this comes from particulary if you examine their most prominent solo works...Bodycount for Eastman and Vol. 4 for Laird but looking at all their other works it doesn't really bare out.

The are Laird-penned stories that are darker and he at least tries to keep a certain level of realism and "grit" in the mainstream versions minute as it may be but it's there.

Eastman on the other hand is harder to judge since there is less to examine but keep in mind Laird gets a lot of flak for using super heroes but it was Eastman who started it in TMNT. he clearly doesn't shy away from it but most of work doesn't really scream dark n' gritty either. As someone else on here once pointed out he had a Casey Jones series were he fought Lobster people. He also seems to be okay with mainsteam versions being as crazy and goofy as they want to be.

I do think Eastman brings a certain goofy charm as well a but more or a regular guy aspect to the four turtles but pinning one as the sci fi guy and the other the guns n' babes is something of a disservice to both of them.

[azrael]

its cool and all what peter did out of pocket but no reason to be a douche to unpleased fans. he may have singled them out but it was also apparent he was talking in general.

i love volume 4 every has a certain piece that makes it unique in this series its just because of peter.
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[Kendamu]

I think the action scenes could've had more "motion" to them. Also, I think that there's too much going on at once in different directions to really move the story forward at a decent pace. I don't dislike Vol. 4, but those things would greatly improve it for me.

[Venom]

Aside from things pointed out, no two year hiatus would have kept the story progressing; I wish Pete had went with the scaled back Vol. 4's production rather than shelving it that long, but then again I don't know what all was on his plate at the time.

[Billbeaux]

Ditto what Cyber said about reading the story in one or two sittings. I collected the first fifteen issues of v4 before I started reading, and from that angle pacing was never much of a problem (to me, at least).

Ditto also what Azrael said: thought bubbles. I can't be the only one who gets annoyed when characters incessantly spout expository soliloquies (that goes for any comic, novel, film, etc.)

Now then, at the risk of being "that guy"...

*Volume 3. Not sure how--or if--it would have effected V4, but I wish Laid hadn't booted it out of the canon. (100% my opinion...besides, it's still canon to me. All the more reason why I'm lickin' my chops for the conclusion!)

*Hand-off. I don't begrudge Laird his decision to step away from the property--especially in light of the toll it has apparently taken on him. But I wish he hadn't left the book hanging. If he really has no interest in finishing, I think it would be nice if he handed all of his notes, drafts, story ideas, etc off to a couple of the other Mirage mainstays and said, "Play me out, boys." (Could still happen...?)

*Leo/Cha. Hard to critique this one in full, since the story never got wrapped up, but so much more could have been done with the Leo/Cha feud. As it stands now, they aren't exactly poised to collide (Leo's in the Nexus, and Cha is...doing Karai's laundry?)



Now then, not really a suggestion so much as a musing: am I the only one that didn't hate April's origin? What's more, am I the only one that thought the issue with her and Rennet was well done, and something of an existential kick in the teeth (particularly when lil' Robin keeps asking what happened to the baby...to say nothing of the idea that the first couple "Aprils" might have rematerialized in that hellscape Kirby inhabits)? Of all the story lines that Laird left dangling, I was most intrigued to see where he would have gone with this one. Had he blown it, THEN I would have gladly joined the stone-throwers (hell, I'd have elbowed my way to the first row!)