So...what exactly did Carter mutate into?

[Jester]

So, the mutagen that Shredder used to "create" the Turtles and Splinter caused "who ever touched it to take on the form of whatever animal they had most recently been in contact with." Now I know the mutagen was unstable, resulting in the Turtles' secondary "super" mutations. But what exactly was Carter when he "mutated"?
(Also: Donnie certainly had a lot of Shredder's left over mutagen. Couldn't they have used it to create an anti-mutagen for Splinter? And why didn't he have a secondary mutation?)

[oldmanwinters]

I think this is the best explanation:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/carter_mcequation.jpg


(Also: Donnie certainly had a lot of Shredder's left over mutagen. Couldn't they have used it to create an anti-mutagen for Splinter? And why didn't he have a secondary mutation?)

In one of the early season 9 episodes (maybe "The New Mutation"), one of the turtles mentions that Splinter could conceivably undergo further mutations as well. I think that could have been cool to see, but unfortunately it never happened.

[Jester]

He never has a reason to "Hulk out", if I remember right. He's never involved in a major conflict at that point in the series...I think.

[Icebot]

(Also: Donnie certainly had a lot of Shredder's left over mutagen. Couldn't they have used it to create an anti-mutagen for Splinter? And why didn't he have a secondary mutation?)

They already tried the anti-mutagen for him in "Splinter No More". In the end, it didn't work out, and Splinter decided it's better if he remain a rat, and he wouldn't have been able to help the turtles stop Shredder.

The episode where Donatello said Splinter's mutation could be changing was Dregg of the Earth, and that was at the end of the episode.

[gobo]

So...what exactly did Carter mutate into?
A pro wrestler, duh.

[Jester]

A pro wrestler, duh.
Like the Ultimate Warrior!
-eNeHLrGsVw

[oldmanwinters]

I watched "The Unknown Ninja" today and there is a strange variable in Carter's mutation. After he spills mutagen on himself, he does not come into direct contact with another living creature until much later in the episode.

The first hint we get is that his hand starts to glow while he's driving his motorcycle. Later, he is touched by the turtles and then begins to punch and kick various robots. The first time his mutagen fully materializes is when he is caught by one of Dregg's mechanical claws. His skin seems to absorb the metal ala, Kevin from Ben 10: Alien Force (thus explaining why his mutant form has a metal arm).

So, my theory is that a person exposed to mutagen who does not quickly come into contact with another living organism will experience a different kind of mutation which usually amplifies one's strength and stature while giving one a fairly gruesome appearance. Other examples of this phenomenon might include Seymour "Mutagen Man" Gutz and Krakus (from Enter: Krakus although he used a "mutation ray" rather than actual mutagen).

[Jester]

I was watching this episode as I posted the thread, and noticed him kinda go David Banner Sr. on the robot that had him in it's clutches, thus giving him his metal armor. Your logic makes sence. I really think the aspects of the mutagen were never really tied down. Heck, what happens when a mutant is made where the animal they come in contact with is themselves a mutant. Examples would include Slash, Groundchuck and Dirtbag, and Mutant Turtle Filth Hun. :D

[gobo]

I watched "The Unknown Ninja" today and there is a strange variable in Carter's mutation. After he spills mutagen on himself, he does not come into direct contact with another living creature until much later in the episode.
As the story goes, they mutate into whatever creature they most recently were in contact with.
Heck, what happens when a mutant is made where the animal they come in contact with is themselves a mutant. Examples would include Slash, Groundchuck and Dirtbag, and Mutant Turtle Filth Hun. :D
Thought it was pretty obvious that they mutate into whatever creature the mutant mutated from. 1+1=2 :P

[Jester]

Technically...aren't we all in contact with other living organisms at all times, bacteria and the like?

[oldmanwinters]

As the story goes, they mutate into whatever creature they most recently were in contact with.


My point would be that while it is conventional wisdom that a being mutates "into whatever creature they most recently were in contact with," this logic was merely one theory that was assumed by Shredder, Krang, and Splinter during the early experiments with mutagen. In the cases of Splinter, the TMNT, Rocksteady/Bebop, and the rest of Shredder's punks, a creature was almost nearby and thus came into immediate contact with the subject exposed to mutagen.

Therefore, the theory of "they mutate into whatever creature they most recently were in contact with" was established.

The introduction of Carter's mutation, however, is out of the norm and thus demands a new explanation. Since the creature(s) Carter first comes into contact with are the Ninja Turtles, we must conclude that either (A) contact with another mutant makes the mutation process go haywire, or (B) a subject under the influence of mutagen who does not come into "immediate" contact with another creature experiences a unique mutation.

Remember...
"True Fans will Reconcile ANYTHING!":tgrin:

EDIT:
Thought of one other thing!

The fact that Carter's mutation appears to derive partly from a non-living substance, (in this case, the metal and, perhaps, his motorcycle) further supports my theory that his encounter with mutagen has affected him in a substantially different way than the mutations seen in the first season. Again, my solution this question is that the cause of this variation would likely stem from either (A) human to mutant contact, or (B) lack of immediate contact with a creature.

[Jester]

Hey, maybe that's why Bebop and Rocksteady are missing after season 8. Their mutations destableized and Shredder and Krang had them put down.

EDIT: I wonder if the unstable mutations would effect humans-to-humanoid animals mutations differently than animals-to-humanoid animal mutants.

[gobo]

The introduction of Carter's mutation, however, is out of the norm and thus demands a new explanation.
Just like Muckman, Mutagenman and the rock soldiers...

Since my OT marathon was several months back, I don't remember. What mutagen was Carter exposed to? The batch that originally mutated Splinter and The Turtles, which has since begun destabilizing or Donatello's experimental formula intended to restabilize their mutations? I'm leaning towards the second option as I'm pretty sure the original batch was shown to no longer be liquid.

[Jester]

Since my OT marathon was several months back, I don't remember. What mutagen was Carter exposed to? The batch that originally mutated Splinter and The Turtles, which has since begun destabilizing or Donatello's experimental formula intended to restabilize their mutations? I'm leaning towards the second option as I'm pretty sure the original batch was shown to no longer be liquid.
Yep, it was a rather large vial of the mutagen that caused the Turtles and Splinter's mutations.

[oldmanwinters]

Yep, it was a rather large vial of the mutagen that caused the Turtles and Splinter's mutations.

Doesn't Donny just refer to it as "my mutagen sample" at the beginning of "The Unknown Ninja?"

Just like Muckman, Mutagenman and the rock soldiers...

As I stated earlier, I'd put Mutagen Man and Krakus in a similar category with Carter, since they mutated into a bizarre looking, yet stronger version of a human without coming into immediate contact with a creature. Mutagen Man and Muckman/Joe Eyeball may fall into a more specified subset of that category, since they essentially overdosed on mutagen, whereas Carter just got a little bit on his hands (similar to Hamato Yoshi in that regard).

I don't recall if the Rock Soldiers were ever described as mutants.

[Jester]

Doesn't Donny just refer to it as "my mutagen sample" at the beginning of "The Unknown Ninja?"
Yes, but he later explains that he is "studying some of the mutagen that originally caused us to mutate." Leonardo then picks up the very beaker Donnie was carrying around at the begining of the episode, saying it still looks active. Donnie then tells them that it's unstable and they might still be mutating.

EDIT: As for the Rock Soldiers, in Michaelangelo's Birthday, Krang turns 3 soldiers back to ordinary rock...so one could assume they were mutants...maybe.

[oldmanwinters]

Yes, but he later explains that he is "studying some of the mutagen that originally caused us to mutate." Leonardo then picks up the very beaker Donnie was carrying around at the begining of the episode, saying it still looks active. Donnie then tells them that it's unstable and they might still be mutating.

Hmm... interesting that Donny had so much of that original mutagen! I figured he used it all up in "Splinter No More." Seeing how that mutagen has already been established as unstable, it would stand to reason that this fact becomes an added variable in Carter's case.

One thing that is consistent with aged mutagen is that its effects are either temporary (again, in "Splinter No More") or cause the exposed subject to fluctuate between mutant and normal forms (in the case of "Wererats from Channel 6" and in Carter's situation).

As for the Rock Soldiers, in Michaelangelo's Birthday, Krang turns 3 soldiers back to ordinary rock...so one could assume they were mutants...maybe.

Dang, forgot all about this! Well, that's news to me, I guess. So I guess that's confirmation that mutagen can effect inanimate substances, thus making Carter's interaction with metal less unique than I originally assumed.

[Jester]

True, but again I really think the mutagen was kinda just a plot device and was never really nailed down. The color changes from purple, to green, to tutti-frutti, back to green. It's effects seem different depending on the circumstance as well. I mean look at the cows from Mutagen Monsters. Would you say they mutated with other cows because that was ther animal they were most recently in contact with? Why did they merge? And seperate? Could it be that the tankers weren't properly mixed or that the mixing wasn't done in a proper labratory setting?

[oldmanwinters]

True, but again I really think the mutagen was kinda just a plot device and was never really nailed down. The color changes from purple, to green, to tutti-frutti, back to green. It's effects seem different depending on the circumstance as well. I mean look at the cows from Mutagen Monsters. Would you say they mutated with other cows because that was ther animal they were most recently in contact with? Why did they merge? And seperate? Could it be that the tankers weren't properly mixed or that the mixing wasn't done in a proper labratory setting?

Ah, yes, the cows...
the only example we have of when one animal exposed to mutagen gets exposed to another animal of the same species? ...
hmm...

I guess the only universally established fact about mutagen is that:
It is some messed up $#*!


Therefore:
0wbONcLKEEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbONcLKEEg
"Cowabunga, dudes, don't take mutagen!":D

[Jester]

Reading this from work sucks...spolier tags have to be cheated open (quote to see it, since for some reason they can't be opened...Flash I guess.) Also, youtube is out. :(

[oldmanwinters]

Reading this from work sucks...spolier tags have to be cheated open (quote to see it, since for some reason they can't be opened...Flash I guess.) Also, youtube is out. :(

Don't worry, you aren't missing much.

All I was trying to say was that mutagen is some "messed up" ... er... stuff.

[Jester]

Don't worry, you aren't missing much. It was the closest I've ever come to using some choice language on this forum, thus I was little ashamed of it and tried to hide it a little bit.:lol:

All I was trying to say was that mutagen is some "messed up" ... er... stuff.
Yeah...I read it. Everytime I post it automatically quotes, so I clean it up pre post.
Why couldn't all non Turtle mutants just have been freak Disintegrator Unit accidents?

[oldmanwinters]

Yeah...I read it. Everytime I post it automatically quotes, so I clean it up pre post.
Why couldn't all non Turtle mutants just have been freak Disintegrator Unit accidents?

Amen to that! Either that or Matter Transporter accidents!
It's just so much simpler!

[Jester]

Amen to that! Either that or Matter Transporter accidents!
It's just so much simpler!
Indeed, "freak fluke of technology." [end explination]

[gobo]

Dang, forgot all about this! Well, that's news to me, I guess. So I guess that's confirmation that mutagen can effect inanimate substances, thus making Carter's interaction with metal less unique than I originally assumed.
The part Jester forgot to remember was that Krang explained that this antimutagen that bubbled up out of a lava pit and Shredder scooped up with his bare hand was "an antimutagen that returns any previously mutated species back to its roots, just as the rock soldiers have reverted to the rocks from which they came". However, this explanation doesn't rule out evolution. I just think it would be more consistent with the convenient plot devices if Krang had originally mutated them, and that's why he has their complete loyalty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbONcLKEEg
That almost sounds like Corey Feldman... almost.

[oldmanwinters]

I was gonna say this is probably the longest thread ever in which only 3 people contributed, but then I noticed Icebot (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=832313&postcount=4) did get a word in to break up the monotony.:tlol:

[Jester]

I was gonna say this is probably the longest thread ever in which only 3 people contributed, but then I noticed Icebot (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=832313&postcount=4) did get a word in to break up the monotony.:tlol:
Tehe. Hey gobo, wanna join us in a commentary some time?

[gobo]

Hey gobo, wanna join us in a commentary some time?
I suppose I could do that. I haven't really looked into what these fan-commentaries involve.

[ssjup81]

Darn, I meant to post in here earlier, but I forgot to. I always wondered what the heck Carter was supposed to be, but then dismissed it. I couldn't even come up with a theory.

Anywho, I liked that, "Don't do mutagen" PSA. :lol: I liked that bgm too for it. Turtles in Time music. =P

Do you think if the series had continued, that they would've fully explained the whole mutagen thing or whatever happened to Rocksteady and Bebop?

[Jester]

Do you think if the series had continued, that they would've fully explained the whole mutagen thing or whatever happened to Rocksteady and Bebop?
*shrugs* I really don't know. I'd hope so, but Bebop and Rocksteady were just kinda AWOL after season 8.

[oldmanwinters]

Hey, maybe that's why Bebop and Rocksteady are missing after season 8. Their mutations destableized and Shredder and Krang had them put down.

This depresses me every time I think about it.:cry:

[Icebot]

What about the mutagen in the Florida swamps that spilled into the river after the frogs got mutated? Any mutant who touched that mutagen would only get super energy and only for a short while. It didn't cause anyone to mutate like Carter, and when humans touch it, they turn into babies. That happened to Shredder and in the next episode, he was back to normal with no explanation.

And in The Ice Creature Cometh, the creature was mutated with just ice.

[A little *too* Raph]

Wasn't there an episode where Shredder made some sort of super foot soldier? was that from mutagen, or am I just thinking about the Mutatin' Foot Soldier toy?

[oldmanwinters]

Wasn't there an episode where Shredder made some sort of super foot soldier? was that from mutagen, or am I just thinking about the Mutatin' Foot Soldier toy?

There was "The Foot Soldiers Are Revolting" that led to the creation of super-intellegent Alpha-1, but Krang just used one of his machines for that.

The toy version, however, does indeed acknowledge a mutagen-robotic hybrid!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/3586724855_c257eb162c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/3586724855/)
TMNT - Mutations Chart :: The Mutation Cycle of 'Footi Soldierus' { Foot Soldier } ..(( 1993 )) [[ Courtesy of O M Winters ]] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/3586724855/) by tOkKa (http://www.flickr.com/people/terrible2z/), on Flickr

So bizzare!

[Weapon X]

Wasn't there an episode where Shredder made some sort of super foot soldier? was that from mutagen, or am I just thinking about the Mutatin' Foot Soldier toy?

Perhaps it was the Super Foot Soldier from Archie #11?

oldmanwinters got it. :p

[gobo]

And in The Ice Creature Cometh, the creature was mutated with just ice.
Krang said it must have been the microorganisms in the ice.

[oldmanwinters]

Krang said it must have been the microorganisms in the ice.

Now that opens up a proverbial can of worms, doesn't it?

One would think that bacteria would somehow affect the mutation process since it is context sensitive to whatever "creature" is in closest proximity at the time of exposure. Yet, the only time microscopic-anythings are acknowledged is in this situation, IIR.

[Coola Yagami]

In Mutagen Man's case, wasn't it some sort of Mutagenic acid? He literally came apart when exposed to that stuff and all that was left was his brain and spinal cord and eyeballs and such.

[gobo]

In Mutagen Man's case, wasn't it some sort of Mutagenic acid?
I believe so. Something of a byproduct or screwed up formula...

[Jester]

So I'm working my way through season 5...here's some new answers:
Mutagen Man was created from an incomplete batch of Mutagen. It lacked the ingredient Bindex #3.
Muckman and Joe Eyeball were created by some mutagen that wasn't created by Krang. It was created by Tropotron Labs.
If I remember right, the mutagen in Mutagen Monsters had only 2 main ingredients, maybe that's another case of incomplete mutagen.

Wow...this thread is now kinda becoming "How many different forms of mutagen are there in the OT?" :P

[A little *too* Raph]

So do you think that the different colors of ooze in the cartoon were just random color choices, or in fact different variations of the stuff with different mutanagenic properties? It's been so long since I've watched the OT and actually paid attention I can't remember when any why the colors changed.

[Jester]

Random color choices. The initial mutagen changed from purple to green depending on the episode. In Turtle Tracks it's purple but in the flash back sequences in Michelangelo Meets Mondo Gecko it's green. Tutti Frutti was only one episode, Wererats from Channel 6. Mostly it was green.

[A little *too* Raph]

well that is less than exciting :ohwell:

[oldmanwinters]

Random color choices. The initial mutagen changed from purple to green depending on the episode. In Turtle Tracks it's purple but in the flash back sequences in Michelangelo Meets Mondo Gecko it's green. Tutti Frutti was only one episode, Wererats from Channel 6. Mostly it was green.

My theory would be that it is green by default but may appear purple/pink in the right lighting.:lol: