TMNT, The Early Years

[fcmoss]

Someone invited me to start a new thread, so here I am. I have no clue what people are interested in hearing about, so I’ll just plunge in.
It was 1988. There was a writers’ strike. I was walking a picket line in front of 20th Century Fox studios, when I met a tall skinny older writer. We started talking. His name was Jack Mendelsohn. He found out I’d written several other cartoon shows, and we talked about “the biz.” Jack had started working for Fred wolf Films on the new season of an animated kids’ show, something called “Mutant Turtle Ninjas…” no, it was “Teenage Turtle Ninja Mutant…” We both had trouble getting the name right.
It wasn’t a Writers Guild show (the Guild only covered live action), so there was no strikebreaking involved. We hit it off and, in the fall of 1988, he hired me.
At first, my job was computer guy and office factotum. Jack was a bit computer-averse, so I set up the office on Ventura Boulevard in Sherman Oaks, and created some styles in WordStar (!) to make margin-setting easier. Up to then, he’d been tabbing over for character name and dialog margins. Writers came in with floppy disks of premises, outlines, scripts and I massaged them through our new system. We were off & running.

[oldmanwinters]

Awesome! It's Francis Moss, everybody!:tsmile:

I figured I'd throw out a few questions regarding your experience on the classic TMNT cartoon:

1) What was your favorite episode (if any)?

2) Regarding those aspiring writers who came in with floppy disks of premises, outlines, and scripts, did you have to reject many ideas for just being too bizarre?

3) Who was responsible for taking the script and converting it to storyboard?

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. That's awesome to hear, Francis. I'm glad you were so happy to write for the show.

[Master Splinter]

Thanks for taking the time and joining the drome!

Favorite Ninja Turtle?

-ms

[Machias Banshee]

Welcome to the forums, Mr Moss. :) We always love metting those involved in the shows... just look out for the welcome mangoes!


:mango:


~Machias

[fcmoss]

Hi,
Taking your questions:
1) What was your favorite episode (if any)?
Not an easy question. You always remember your 'first time,' so I'd have to say that "The Fifth Turtle," being my first episode, is right up there. It also starred my two kids, Zach and Caitlin, and, years later, my son would meet someone who'd say "You're THAT Zach?"
I have the model sheets for the kids (all grown up now) in my office.

2) Regarding those aspiring writers who came in with floppy disks of premises, outlines, and scripts, did you have to reject many ideas for just being too bizarre?
The Turtle universe had hot-rodding 50s teenagers from outer space and a garbageman made out of garbage, so our bizarre threshold was pretty high. More often, story ideas that came in were in that amorphous realm of "not right for the show." We operated on a "you know it when you see it" philosophy.

3) Who was responsible for taking the script and converting it to storyboard?
Boards were done at Fred Wolf Films. We didn't have much if any contact with the artists. By the time scripts were boarded, we were five or six shows ahead.

[fcmoss]

TMNT had a demanding production schedule. We had to deliver 2 scripts per week to Fred Wolf. And, as is usually the case, scripts that came in had to be heavily edited. Most writers new to the Turtle universe struggled coming up with story ideas that we hadn’t already considered or that belonged in some other show. Even a promising story could fall apart at script, and we many spent late nights and weekends doing extensive rewrites. We occasionally had to abandon scripts. But that was costly and shot our schedule to hell, so we tried hard not to. Getting our own script system set up made it easier.
Before long, I was not only reformatting outlines, scripts, and office chores, I was story-editing outlines and scripts… under Jack’s watchful eye of course.
By early ’89, I started pitching story ideas to him. I recall he turned down a dozen before I came up with “The Fifth Turtle.”

[gobo]

It also starred my two kids, Zach and Caitlin, and, years later, my son would meet someone who'd say "You're THAT Zach?"
Excellent trivia fact I never knew... :D

[JoeD80]

Any chance you still have all the old stuff used for the show (i.e. writer's bible, memos, script notes) since you were the computer guy or is that all property of the company? I'm always facsinated by information like that, such as when I read some notes from the first season of She-Ra laying out the episodes and which themes should be conentrated on and which were being used too much (same bad guy, etc.) and what the writers should stick to. Very interesting information, and I've always wanted to see more behind-the-scenes notes from the old TMNT cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

Here's a few questions:

1. How long did you work on the show for? The last season aired in 1996, were you there all the way up till the end?

2. Were the censors a problem with the fight scenes? There are several scenes in the show that looked like the fight scenes wanted to be more, "action oriented" but instead became more slapstick. Did they not want as much direct violence in the show, like say Raphael punching a bad guy in the face or something like that? We of course know Leo/Raph could never use their blades on non-robot enemies.

3. Many new villains introduced in the show were directly taken from Playmates toyline at the time. Do you know of any villains from the toyline that were planned to be in the show, but for some reason never happened? Like some lesser known mutant bad guys like Wyrm, etc? I doubt they're well known though.

[Jester]

Excellent trivia fact I never knew... :D
Indeed...I guess I'll have to dial back my loathing of Zach, since he (and Caitlin) are based on real kids...who are probably my age.

[Bjarni]

I love this thread! Thanks for the memories!

[fcmoss]

Any chance you still have all the old stuff used for the show (i.e. writer's bible, memos, script notes) since you were the computer guy or is that all property of the company? I'm always facsinated by information like that, such as when I read some notes from the first season of She-Ra laying out the episodes and which themes should be conentrated on and which were being used too much (same bad guy, etc.) and what the writers should stick to. Very interesting information, and I've always wanted to see more behind-the-scenes notes from the old TMNT cartoon.

I am looking through my boxes of scripts for any more Turtle art, boards and the like, and I am in touch with some writer friends. It's worth looking into.

She-Ra was the first animated show I wrote for, but I believe it was in the 2nd season. I do have storyboards available on my website, www.cartoonscripts.com.

[fcmoss]

Here's a few questions:

1. How long did you work on the show for? The last season aired in 1996, were you there all the way up till the end?

2. Were the censors a problem with the fight scenes? There are several scenes in the show that looked like the fight scenes wanted to be more, "action oriented" but instead became more slapstick. Did they not want as much direct violence in the show, like say Raphael punching a bad guy in the face or something like that? We of course know Leo/Raph could never use their blades on non-robot enemies.

3. Many new villains introduced in the show were directly taken from Playmates toyline at the time. Do you know of any villains from the toyline that were planned to be in the show, but for some reason never happened? Like some lesser known mutant bad guys like Wyrm, etc? I doubt they're well known though.

1. I started in '88 and ended in '92 (or '93, I'm not sure).

2. We never had censors, as such. The network had a Standards & Practices division which set down guidelines for sex (none) and violence (cartoon).
You have a good observation on the fight scenes: we were always going right up to the edge of what was acceptable, but pretty good about not going over. Our heroes could never hit any one directly, but could bash a stack of crates which would fall on the villain. The name for the guideline was "no imitable behavior."
The reason why TMNT -- and every cartoon -- has robots is so writers can stomp, crush, mutilate and otherwise release their pent-up aggressions. It's OK if kids watching want to bash their robot toys, just not their little siblings.

3. Like all toy-based shows, we'd get new characters to include in episodes. I don't think there were any that were intended to be used but didn't make it. Not while I was there, anyway.

[oldmanwinters]

I am looking through my boxes of scripts for any more Turtle art, boards and the like, and I am in touch with some writer friends. It's worth looking into.


Oh, I hope you can turn up something! The more TMNT stuff that turns up the better!

I'm still in limbo trying to download that 8-page TMNT set of backgrounds. I'm sure it will be worth the wait though. :goof:

[fcmoss]

Indeed...I guess I'll have to dial back my loathing of Zach, since he (and Caitlin) are based on real kids...who are probably my age.

Naaah, go ahead and loathe away. I probably made the 'toon Zach annoying when my son was acting up.

[fcmoss]

I love this thread! Thanks for the memories!

You're welcome. It's fun for me, too.

[oldmanwinters]

Alright, I've thought of another question.

I noticed that you wrote "Shredder's Mom" (one of my favorite episodes of the series; I even made my own parody of it! (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9z95s_tmnt-gone-wrong-parody-episode-5_fun)) and the first two Momma Robotnik episodes of The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (again two of my favorites for that series!)

Not to pry too deeply into your personal life, but were these "Mom" characters inspired by members of your own family?:lol:

[fcmoss]

Jack had met both my kids, and liked them, and I think that made him partial to my story. But of course, getting past Jack was only the first hurdle: ideas had to get past Fred Wolf and the other producers, and Group W (a now-extinct Westinghouse broadcaster and syndicator).
The upside was that TMNT was a new show, unlike anything else on the air, “and nobody knew anything,” to rephrase William Goldman’s observation about Hollywood. Jack and Fred were friends with a good working relationship, and almost every story idea that got Jack’s approval was okayed for production.
Early on, working for Jack was like being in that high school class with the nightmare teacher. Nothing was good enough. Every line, every word had to be right. Your papers came back marked up as if some demonic kid had attacked them. “D minus! Not good enough!” Jack’s use of red ink for edits began to look – and feel – like writer’s blood on the page.
Writers would complain to me (privately of course) about Jack’s “take no prisoners” attitude to scripts. I sympathized, but I also realized I was learning more about what makes a story work than I ever had – even after 10 years as a pro.

[Kendamu]

Are there any glaring examples that you still remember of things that weren't "right for the show" or were better "for a different show?" I'm just wondering what kind of odd not-like-TMNT sort of things got pitched.

[ssjup81]

Hi,
Taking your questions:
1) What was your favorite episode (if any)?
Not an easy question. You always remember your 'first time,' so I'd have to say that "The Fifth Turtle," being my first episode, is right up there. It also starred my two kids, Zach and Caitlin, and, years later, my son would meet someone who'd say "You're THAT Zach?"
I have the model sheets for the kids (all grown up now) in my office.

Now this is cool. I know some people found the character of Zach annoying. I honestly didn't. To be honest, that was one ep I remembered well before rewatching it earlier this year after nearly 20 years of originally seeing it. I thought it was cool because a "kid" got to hang with the Turtles and how I couldn't. :lol:

It's so cool you based them on your real kids. How old were they at the time?

[JoeD80]

I am looking through my boxes of scripts for any more Turtle art, boards and the like, and I am in touch with some writer friends. It's worth looking into.

She-Ra was the first animated show I wrote for, but I believe it was in the 2nd season. I do have storyboards available on my website, www.cartoonscripts.com.
Very cool, thanks!

[fcmoss]

Alright, I've thought of another question.

I noticed that you wrote "Shredder's Mom" (one of my favorite episodes of the series; I even made my own parody of it! (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9z95s_tmnt-gone-wrong-parody-episode-5_fun)) and the first two Momma Robotnik episodes of The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (again two of my favorites for that series!)

Not to pry too deeply into your personal life, but were these "Mom" characters inspired by members of your own family?:lol:

Caught me!
Not really. I had a nice mom. I've found certain themes and characters more fun to write. And writers not only steal/borrow from each other, they do it to themselves.

[Jester]

Caught me!
Not really. I had a nice mom. I've found certain themes and characters more fun to write. And writers not only steal/borrow from each other, they do it to themselves.
Sooo true. David Wise is notorious for recycling plot elements from Transformers for TMNT.

[fcmoss]

Are there any glaring examples that you still remember of things that weren't "right for the show" or were better "for a different show?" I'm just wondering what kind of odd not-like-TMNT sort of things got pitched.

If the stories weren't right, it wasn't because they might work for another show. They were often just lame.
A great science fiction writer, Ted Sturgeon, wrote: "Ninety percent of everything is crap."
That's the rule I live by.. including my own writing.
More often we'd find that the would-be Turtle writer just didn't have a handle on how the characters talked or acted. Sometimes it didn't come out until scripts, which meant heavy rewriting.