DC Comics are starting over. Beggining EVERY Issue at number one this fall.

[deadpoolRKO]

Every Current DC comics series will have it's final issue this summer.

Then , over 52 titles will Start new this fall , and every series will be available digitally as well.

The first book to be released under this new era: Justice League No. 1, out Aug. 31. The series by writer Geoff Johns and artist Jim Lee reunites the famous lineup of Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Wonder Woman and Aquaman.



Pretty bold move. (http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2011-06-01-dc-comics-why-the-change_n.htm)

[Donnie]

Rad. I wonder if my fav DC hero Hawkman will get a re-boot, too.

[deadpoolRKO]

i would think so with 52 series starting he's at least be in one of them if not have his own

[Candy Kappa]

meh. Resetting the numbering of the issues are just cheap and rebooting are unnecessary.

[ZariusTwo]

Bob Harras (current DC EIC) pulled off this exact stunt at Marvel a decade ago, it famously blew up in their faces

[That Matt Guy]

I believe Detective Comics is at like 880 issues, right? Been running since the 1930's. Yeah, so let's just throw all of that away and start over at 1.

In three years they'll go back to "classic numbering"

[deadpoolRKO]

yeah i guess they're thought process has to be everythings going digital , so to boost sales and attention to digital sales they have to re-start every series to get everyones attention

[Voltron]

I can't wait to get my new Batman #1 signed by Bob Kane!

[Godzilla]

I can't wait to get my new Batman #1 signed by Bob Kane!

Goes along nicely with a signed copy of Batman #0, right? ;) :D

[Voltron]

I forgot that. Why do they number issues zero, now? Stupid.

[oldmanwinters]

I forgot that. Why do they number issues zero, now? Stupid.

Eh, it's not really that recent of a phenomenon (http://www.comicvine.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-dont-cry-for-me-mobius/37-141883/). Anything for more collector's sales, right?:lol:

[Candy Kappa]

how bout a Youngblood routine and make a #1/2 issue :P

[Jephael]

I'm a little miffed that they're doing this because... I was looking forward to seeing if they'd bring Bruce Wayne back from the dead.

[Candy Kappa]

I'm a little miffed that they're doing this because... I was looking forward to seeing if they'd bring Bruce Wayne back from the dead.

um, what?

He's been back for some time. batman inc. and all that time traveling

honestly I don't think spoiler tag is necessary due to it's age...

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I forgot that. Why do they number issues zero, now? Stupid.

The number zero issues were okay. They gave an overview of each character's origin and history at that point. Considering how much DC likes to change things around, it was a pretty good idea.

[Ninjinister]

I'm a little miffed that they're doing this because... I was looking forward to seeing if they'd bring Bruce Wayne back from the dead.

He was never "dead" in the first place. His brain shot through time or something ridiculous like that. They did almost the exact same thing with Captain America. Bruce is now co-Batman alongside Dick and has started a "Batman Inc.", proposing that Batman is bigger than one person, but instead can be a global idea, with many Batman-esque superheroes around the world joining his cause.

And like Kiwamu said... no spoiler tags 'cause he's been back for like a year now.

[Godzilla]

The number zero issues were okay. They gave an overview of each character's origin and history at that point. Considering how much DC likes to change things around, it was a pretty good idea.

It was also a nifty way to get fans interested in DC Comics back during the mid-1990's during the whole Zero Hour event. Which was something of a 'soft' reboot if anything. As the entire event set out to correct continuity problems that stood out following Crisis on Infinite Earths, with the #0 issues going over the character's origin and backstory as it stood at that point in time with the DCU.

[Krutch]

I'm still a bit confused about this. Is this a new universe? Like, everything that I've read so far "never happened" and its all brand new beginnings? Or are they wrapping up all current story lines at the same time, then resetting the issue number to 1?

[Godzilla]

I'm still a bit confused about this. Is this a new universe? Like, everything that I've read so far "never happened" and its all brand new beginnings? Or are they wrapping up all current story lines at the same time, then resetting the issue number to 1?

I think it's more the later, than the former. DC Comics has already said that this isn't a total reboot of their universe.

[Candy Kappa]

thought I read somewhere that some of the flashpoint stuff might hang around for a while after the re-numbering.

Don't take my words for good fish, cause I have no idea where i got it from O_o

As for reboots, it isn't impossible that Superman gets a soft reboot again, if that lawsuit circus goes too sour.

[azrael]

Im a little upset with Barbara being batgirl again New batgirl book with the old batgirl...

[Turo602]

They suriously ruined Batman and Superman's looks. You can't mess with iconic. What the hell!

[azrael]

they honestly didnt mess with them 2 that much look at red robin.... thats horrific

I like both Supes and Bats new looks.

[PizzaPower]

i never read any of the dc comics but all these batman comics and whatnot confuse the hell out of me.

[Turo602]

As a new costume I don't mind Superman but as a new look that will stick it bothers me. His red underwear and his yellow belt are missing. His red boots aren't the same, and his trademark curl is gone. Superman was not in need of change. At least not his look.

Batman. Now Batman I don't mind because it looks like Batman but again, the underwear is gone. He looks like he's wearing diapers under his tights. I wouldn't mind it if his costume were all black, but it's not. The gray on him just looks goofy. There's not enough black. And his belt isn't yellow either. I would of preferred all black with a yellow belt and the yellow oval with the Bat symbol on his chest.

[azrael]

i never read any of the dc comics but all these batman comics and whatnot confuse the hell out of me.

we take it one month at a time...

[azrael]

As a new costume I don't mind Superman but as a new look that will stick it bothers me. His red underwear and his yellow belt are missing. His red boots aren't the same, and his trademark curl is gone. Superman was not in need of change. At least not his look.

Batman. Now Batman I don't mind because it looks like Batman but again, the underwear is gone. He looks like he's wearing diapers under his tights. I wouldn't mind it if his costume were all black, but it's not. The gray on him just looks goofy. There's not enough black. And his belt isn't yellow either. I would of preferred all black with a yellow belt and the yellow oval with the Bat symbol on his chest.

I agree the look didnt need to be messed with Superman but if thats what it takes to make you feel like superman isnt b or c list character I will take it.

[Fugitoid Jones]

He was never "dead" in the first place. His brain shot through time or something ridiculous like that. They did almost the exact same thing with Captain America. Bruce is now co-Batman alongside Dick and has started a "Batman Inc.", proposing that Batman is bigger than one person, but instead can be a global idea, with many Batman-esque superheroes around the world joining his cause.


This is one of the reasons why I'm kind of looking forward to the reboot. Wash away all the ridiculous crap that guys like Grant Morrison have done to Batman and Superman over the past few years.

[The Clerk]

...I wonder if Chloe will now be in Superman... :-P

[Fugitoid Jones]

...I wonder if Chloe will now be in Superman... :-P

Actually she has been for like a year or 2. She's been involved with Jimmy Olsen.

[ZariusTwo]

Say goodbye to Superman's marraige

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2011/07/18/the-new-man-of-tomorrow/

[Leo656]

I'm a huge Superman fan. I was born into the Reeve movies and the 50s tv show, got into the comics with the Man of Steel reboot as a 4-year old, sat through countless retcons, reboots, awesome-to-horrible cartoons and movies, spent a small fortune accumulating every single Superman comic from '86 to 2010, and never gave up.

I don't want any of this. This sounds WRETCHED. And I love Morrison and Perez, generally speaking, but I HATE the way Morrison looks at Superman and his love affair with all the corny 60s nonsense. And splitting up Lois and Clark is just the laziest kind of retconning. "We don't like mushy lovey stuff in our super-hero comics". Never mind that Lois and the Kents make him a more interesting character. "Kal-El the alien outsider" is BORING, and that's the character 99% of Superman haters comment on. Only a few writers even make the effort to focus on how the supporting cast, Lois in particular, are this "alien's" link to humanity, how the thinks and feels as a human being (or at least he DID) rather than some alien deity. But hey, let's just wipe all that out because the only thing they THINK people wanna see Superman do is brood and toss skyscrapers around like some kind of mid-90s Image character.

Superman/Clark "outsmarting" Lois all the damn time to protect his secret identity was corny, stupid and played out before I was even born. She has got to be the stupidest "investigative journalist" ever, to spend like 8 hours a day with "Clark" and the rest of the day getting rescued by "Superman" and STILL not see they're the same guy. Other people it makes sense, but she sees him more than anyone else face to face, so it just makes her a retard. That's why I loved it when they finally had him do the big reveal and married them off. It's like, "yeah, about damn time, now we can move on to some new stuff that hasn't been done to death." You don't move forward by moving backwards.

Plus we get a sh*tty new origin that sounds like it's gonna be worse than Birthright, which I do give them credit in a sense for: I seriously thought Birthright was the worst version of the origin they could do. I'm usually the first to say "well, let's read it and see," but there's almost no way this can be good, from the sound of it. I was tentative about Geoff Johns' "Secret Origin", but I ended up loving it even with all the retcons. It's my second-favorite Superman origin, right after Man of Steel, and it was not even TWO YEARS AGO for crying out loud. They not only didn't need a retcon this soon, they didn't need a retcon AT ALL! It was good enough to stand as the definitive origin for at least a while. Stupid, stupid, STUPID.

I was cautiously optimistic about the DC relaunch; I've been broke and haven't gotten any books in a year, but when I left off with Brightest Day I was loving pretty much EVERYTHING DC was doing. I'm still jumping back in with the relaunch, but man, I'm depressed about it, because 99% of it looks like it's going to suck. I spent an entire day seriously thinking about just quitting. God knows I could use the money I'd save, but comics have been my main hobby since I learned to read. :ohwell:

I guess I'll just hold my nose, swallow the suck, and hope that by next year at the latest this New DC has already gone the way of New Coke. It doesn't make sense that they sh*tcan everything and start over just when the entire line was as good if not better than it's ever been.

[ZariusTwo]

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/2011/07/21/2011-07-21_lois_lanes_new_boyfriend_revealed_superman_lose s_out_to_jonathan_carroll_in_supe.html

Yep, back to Lois being all rejecting of Clark in favour of boy toys, with Clark feeling isolated and lonely again

[Jester]

Yeah, because fans loved it so much when Marvel did it with Spider-man. Way to learn from the competition's mistakes DC.

EDIT: Also, is Superman wearing body armor?

[Galactus]

This is one of the reasons why I'm kind of looking forward to the reboot. Wash away all the ridiculous crap that guys like Grant Morrison have done to Batman and Superman over the past few years.

Except that Batman is one of the characters that is keeping his recent history so all Grant Morrison's Batman stories are still valid. In fact his series Batman Inc will also be getting a new #1.

And Morrison has also being handed Superman. Of course since he wrote the only Superman story in recent years I'd say he's entitled.


As a new costume I don't mind Superman but as a new look that will stick it bothers me. His red underwear and his yellow belt are missing. His red boots aren't the same, and his trademark curl is gone. Superman was not in need of change. At least not his look.

Well there's a very real possibility that by 2013 DC may no longer own the classic Superman costume due to the Schuster lawsuit.

It shouldn't go unnoticed that Supe's new costume gets rid of all the stuff that the Schusters may get. A blue leotard, a yellow belt, red trunks. I'd even bet the erasure of the marriage is also to do with the fact that may have to eliminate a love interest named "Lois" altogether.

Now Batman I don't mind because it looks like Batman but again, the underwear is gone. He looks like he's wearing diapers under his tights. I wouldn't mind it if his costume were all black, but it's not. The gray on him just looks goofy. There's not enough black. And his belt isn't yellow either. I would of preferred all black with a yellow belt and the yellow oval with the Bat symbol on his chest.

It seems similar is Batman Inc anyway minus the oval and clearly visible cod piece. The design of his belt has always been interchangable depending on the artist. Personaly I'm not sure the all black works in the comics. DC tried a Tim Burton-esque costume after Zero Hour if rememeber correctly and it just didn't look good.

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah this whole continuity thing on Superman's side makes no sense....if the death of Superman still occured, yet Clark was never involved in a relationship with Lois Lane, then how do you explain all of the touchy moments they had in that story? Supergirl's past has been retconned out and restarted as well. Why does Superboy get to keep his whole history?

As for Batman...well, he's always kept his history during these reboots, and his whole concept as an urban myth allows him to have more than five years of existence in the public eye, so just ignore all the cosmic stuff Morrison put him through and he's fine.

I'd even bet the erasure of the marriage is also to do with the fact that may have to eliminate a love interest named "Lois" altogether.

Which also explains why the new continuity has Lois admit she can't get close to Clark at all and is with a new boyfriend right off the bat...she's also working in a much higher posistion than Clark in the Daily Planet, so they'll be connected less.

[ToTheNines]

This all sounds like garbage. A friend of mine told me Wally West is gone now, too... is that bull **** true?

[Venom]

This all sounds like garbage. A friend of mine told me Wally West is gone now, too... is that bull **** true?

Short answer without being convoluted: yes. It's Barry. Kid Flash is Bart.

[Leo656]

Way to erase EVERYTHING I grew up reading, DC. I grew up with Wally as The Flash. He's been around since the 60s or some sh*t, it's not like they're wiping out tiny little pieces of history.

This ALL sounds like sh*t. I've reserved the first few issues of a few just to see how I like it, but the more I hear the more it seems likely I'm going to focus my collecting on the rest of the DCU stuff published from the 80s until the end of Flashpoint. Since the New Universe will have no resemblance to what I grew up on and invested thousands of dollars and years of my life to, it seems to make more sense to collect the stuff I liked and let that be "my DCU," especially since that universe now has a decisive beginning in 1986, a middle, and now, with Flashpoint, the end.

Ugh, it finally happened. I'm one of those cranky old bastards who quit reading comics forever after Crisis On Infinite Earths. I hope that slipping sales force them to "Un-Flashpoint" everything back to what it was within a year. The last few years of DC books were amazing; why ruin it just because a few snot-nosed punks can't get into the mythology?

Having the past few years of books from Identity Crisis through Blackest Night be so amazing, then having this happen... it's like 3 hours of amazing sex and then popping a bloody wad at the end. To wit: confusing and horrifying.

[ZariusTwo]

Apparently D.C discussed the possibility of ending the current continuity with special "finale" type storys (like "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow") but decided against it because they didnt want to cheat the reader:roll:

At least when BND began, Marvel gave their fans decent jumping-off points with "Mr and Mrs Spider-Man", Spider-Girl, and Matt Fraction's "To Have and To Hold"...here D.C arent giving us anything

For me, I'll just accept DeFalco's upcoming Superman Beyond one-shot as the "finale" for the present Superman continuity, same as Batman Beyond serves as the definitive future for Bruce.

[Leo656]

Talk about limping across the finish line...

It wasn't supposed to end this way, that's what pisses me off. It seemed like everything they'd ever done was building, coming together, finally offering payoffs to readers who had stuck with them since Crisis1, and building towards a brand new future... it really seems like a sudden abortion, not the organic progression of how things were supposed to go.

I've heard all the Superman books since New Krypton ended have been crummy, so maybe I haven't been missing much. For me that'll probably be the "last story" of the Superman I grew up with. Sigh.

[ZariusTwo]

Now I'm hearing The Flash's marraige is going south. Bollocks.

[Slap-Happy]

All this sh*t I'm hearIng about the reboot makes me want to say three words.

Make. Mine. Marvel.

[ZariusTwo]

I'll steer clear of both of them thanks, Marvel are just as bad, the last time I gave them any money was with the last issue of Spider-Girl

[Slap-Happy]

One good thing about the reboot is that it's a jumping on point. IMO the DC books are very hard to jump into without knowing a lot of the continuity behind them.

[Spitfire]

Marvel created jumping on points too without rebooting completely. What makes me mad is Batman Beyond finally got a good comic series and now after the reboot it's no longer being published. It didn't even make it to 10 issues.

[Andrew NDB]

One good thing about the reboot is that it's a jumping on point.

A pretty good jumping off point too.

[Brodie]

So, I got a free promo "#1" issue, with previews of all the new 52...And I had been noting this as a rebooted continuity, right? But when I got to the Green Lantern/corps/red lantern/etc section, Johns is quoted as saying that it follows almost directly after everything he's done since 'Rebirth.' So, are some of these in present continuity and others aren't? What the ****?

[azrael]

Marvel created jumping on points too without rebooting completely. What makes me mad is Batman Beyond finally got a good comic series and now after the reboot it's no longer being published. It didn't even make it to 10 issues.

Its coming back with a new number 1

[Andrew NDB]

So, I got a free promo "#1" issue, with previews of all the new 52...And I had been noting this as a rebooted continuity, right? But when I got to the Green Lantern/corps/red lantern/etc section, Johns is quoted as saying that it follows almost directly after everything he's done since 'Rebirth.' So, are some of these in present continuity and others aren't? What the ****?

Very little is being changed except for marriages. Some of the #1s take place 5 years ago, but all of them eventually catch back up to the present within a few issues.

[Galactus]

It wasn't supposed to end this way, that's what pisses me off. It seemed like everything they'd ever done was building, coming together, finally offering payoffs to readers who had stuck with them since Crisis1, and building towards a brand new future... it really seems like a sudden abortion, not the organic progression of how things were supposed to go.

Hardly anything in the DC universe has progessed organicaly in years. You've had two different canon origins for Superman within a handful of years. Important characters, elements and history taken out or inserted into continuity in the aftermaths of every big event. It's completely haphazard. This is no different except every one gets a shiny new #1 and costume with seams.

I can't see it coming off any better. Even if they get Grant Morrisson to stick to a solid new history with Superman eventualy some high profile writer on another title is going to want to use a story element which is no longer in continuity by DC and either use whatever upcoming event to precipitate it's reinsertion or use said event to explain how it's already happened.

All this being said it's a great thing to attract new readers to titles they might not otherwise try and new readers in general. Particularly if they can impress us early on. All that and Barbara Gordon finaly gets the use of her legs back.

[azrael]

I dont see where "new" readers are coming from. I see no advertising in the outside world other than places that are for comics.

As for barbara being batgirl .. meh

Barbara walking I am all for I just dont know why Oracle cant be a mobile vigilante, that is something that would be awesome to see.

[Galactus]

I dont see where "new" readers are coming from. I see no advertising in the outside world other than places that are for comics.

They're gonna be advertising the comics relaunch in movie theaters.

[ZariusTwo]

All this being said it's a great thing to attract new readers to titles they might not otherwise try and new readers in general. Particularly if they can impress us early on. All that and Barbara Gordon finaly gets the use of her legs back.

Which is fairly insulting to people who cannot regain mobility of their legs, and it's also an affront to her legacy as Oracle.

[Leo656]

Anybody pick any of the new books up yet? I'm heading in tomorrow to pick up Action #1 and was wondering if anyone had seen Justice League yet...

[Galactus]

Which is fairly insulting to people who cannot regain mobility of their legs

It's a thorny issue true but I've always been in the camp that given the world she inhabits and the resources she has it's stupid that Barbara would stay in a wheel chair. The idea that Barbara chooses to remain in a wheel chair is fairly insulting, I don't think it's a stretch to say that most disabled people would choose to regain their mobilty if they had the opportunity.

Not to mention a male character of her status would have regained their mobilty long ago. Damian Wayne is a fan favourite with those that read Batman & Robin but not as known as Barbara, he suffered a similar injuries and was cured in a few issues.

If it's a case of representation then yes something is being lost here although DC are apparently launching a new title around a disabled character and given it's premise they'll give it some leniancy with sales and give it a fair amount of time to catch on.

it's also an affront to her legacy as Oracle.

I don't see how. Someone like Gail Simone isn't going to forget or diminish what the character had achieved as Oracle and just because some giod work was done with the character as Oracle shouldn't mean that we have to stick with that mode forever.


Anybody pick any of the new books up yet? I'm heading in tomorrow to pick up Action #1 and was wondering if anyone had seen Justice League yet...

Justice League came out prior to Action Comics. It's....okay. I much preferred Action Comics, chronologicaly and in terms of quality I feel that would have been a better starting point for the new DC universe.

[ZariusTwo]

I don't see how. Someone like Gail Simone isn't going to forget or diminish what the character had achieved as Oracle

Guess again. I've got a feeling a lot ofh her history as Oracle has been erased given what I've read of her first issue.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Action Comics #1 was actually really good, and Grant Morrison is usually hit or miss with me. Justice League, for what it was, was entertaining.

[Suine Hallock]

Well, the month of new #1s is over. Of the titles I tried, I'm only sticking with 3.

I was looking to pare down on my comic bill anyway, but always have a hard time deciding what has to get the boot. DC really helped make the decision for me by giving me a good number of jumping-off points, as I tend to have an easier time not starting than stopping. :ohwell:

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Make. Mine. Marvel.

I still haven't gotten over One More Day. X-Men hasn't been good in years. No thanks.

I think most of the new 52 were pretty good.

Batgirl was better than I expected. From a marketing standpoint I understand why they made the decision to bring back Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Considering this is the same company that brought back Barry Allen and Hal Jordan from the dead, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully Gail Simone keeps up the good work from the first issue.

[Godzilla]

Batgirl was better than I expected. From a marketing standpoint I understand why they made the decision to bring back Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Considering this is the same company that brought back Barry Allen and Hal Jordan from the dead, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully Gail Simone keeps up the good work from the first issue.

I remember John Byrne, making some sort of comment about Babs returning to Batgirl years ago, by saying that alot of the higher ups at DC genuinely wanted this to happen, and Byrne himself was willing to write the story, and take the heat, but noted that DC decided against it due to a possible backlash, and ticking off Alan Moore.

Which is interesting, considering Moore himself refers to 'The Killing Joke' as essentially mediocre.

[愛]

I'm in the crowd of "I've wanted to get into comics for a while but I'm not going to buy issue #539860376093 to start," so this reboot has been quite a blessing to me. I believe there are a lot of people out there who are in the same boat as me.

I've sampled all of them and so far the list below is what I'll probably be buying.

Batgirl
Green Lantern Corps
Green Lantern New Guardians
Green Lantern
Batman and Robin
Batman
Batman The Dark Knight
Captain Atom
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
I, Vampire
Superman
The Flash

The local comic store near my house is nice, but they sell out of stuff quick and don't get anything in fast enough, so I've been ordering from Midtown Comics' online store. Buying in bulk saves on shipping and whatnot.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Here's a list of the New DC books I'm keeping on my pull list:

Batman
Batman & Robin
Detective Comics
Batman: The Dark Knight
Superman
Action Comics
The Flash
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Justice League

And here's a list of the New DC books that I may stop buying due to lack of funds/fading interest:

Justice League International
Red Lanterns
Green Lantern: New Guardians

[Leo656]

Checked out a few books here and there. I maintain this entire experiment is flawed, unnecessary, and more trouble than it's worth, although I liked a lot of Action Comics #1.

I was hoping they'd cave in and announce it was all an angle and after one year things would Un-Flashpoint themselves, but I doubt it since now they're saying things like it'll be at least issue 20 before they explain how Steel and Superboy's new origins fit in. Y'know, since they were so integral to the Death/Return Of Superman storyline, which DID still happen, but must have happened totally differently since Lois and Clark weren't engaged, there was no Eradicator or Matrix Supergirl, Lex wasn't posing as his own son, and since Steel apparently was around before any of this happened.

I love how when they "simplify" things for new readers they ruin it for everyone else. Y'know how they always promise these changes can fit within what we already know? Lies. All lies.

[Villain]

I'm going to be reading most of the Bat series. I have 1, 2 and 3 of Batman, Baman and Robin, Batman the Dark Knight, Batgirl and Detective comics all ready and waiting, it's just a matter of me getting around to reading them.

[Metropoliskid41]

I'm reading 29 of the new books and have really been enjoying them. I think the top 5 series have to be Action Comics, Green Lantern, Batman, Animal Man, and Swamp Thing. Other really great books are Legion, All-Star Western, Resurrection Man, I Vampire, Flash, Green Lantern New Guardians, and Justice League.

I miss the old continuity, its sad to see it gone, but I really believe the whole thing was driven by the Seigel lawsuit over Superman rights, so I would rather see a totally rehashed from scratch Superman than no Superman at all. Other characters like Batman & Green Lantern have kept most of their continuity intact and escaped pretty much unscythed.

[Leo656]

Yeah, but that just makes the Superman stuff even more jarring. Would I prefer any Superman over none at all? Obviously. Was there really anything wrong with the character (outside the lawsuit) that necessitated such a drastic series of changes? Not at all. Superman is like Hulk Hogan or pro wrestling in general: Never in style to begin with, so can never be out of style, those people who "get it" don't need any explanation and those who aren't into it never will be no matter what you do or say. All the Oscar-nominated films or stupid Kryptonian battle armor in the world ain't gonna change that.

For over 75 years, DC has never understood that you can't market Superman to people who aren't already believers. You just need to tell strong stories that appeal to the ones who are already fans. The reason the book doesn't sell more is because the fans generally don't think it's the best presentation of Superman, not because people in general don't like Superman as a character. The character as it's always been is fine, hokey costume and all, they just need to tell the stories fans actually want to read. Over 20 years (since Man Of Steel) before the "real" General Zod shows up in continuity? And then they retcon it? And they wonder why a billion people have Superman tattoos but the book only sells 100,000 copies...

[ZariusTwo]

Big news for Earth-2 Fans...there making the Golden Age heroes younger too.

[Andrew NDB]

Seems strange to me that there's no real oasis for pre-New 52 readers at DC. Earth-2 seemed like a natural place for the old guard to remain relatively intact and those old readers to get their fix while not messing with the regular DCU... you know, everybody wins? Guess not. And it strikes me as really weird that DC would willingly create multiple Earths at the beginning of a reboot... isn't that supposed to be the kind of thing that happens as time moves along to attempt to clean up/compartmentalize things that creep into continuity? It seems a little bit like intentionally driving the wrong way onto the freeway ramp.

James Robinson doesn't instill a lot of confidence, either... not in regard to the quality of his writing -- no, I like James -- but just given DC's track record with the DC New. There's no reason to expect there wouldn't be an announcement around #5 or #6 about "an exciting new creative team begins with #7!" or so.

And another thing... this doesn't strike anyone that literally, Earth-2 had JUST been recreated like two years beforehand?

Oh yeah, there's every reason to have confidence in the long term aspects of something like this...

[Leo656]

Agreed. I still think Russo behind it. It's the most plausible explanation.

But yeah I feel like DC's message to me right now is "Ahhh, screw off you old fogey. Get on board with the new stuff or quit reading." Seriously.

[Magneto]

Looks like Billy's getting a new look, and a alter ego name change.

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2012/03/06/hey-everybody-heres-the-first-look-at-dcs-shazam/

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i416/jokertdk/Superheroes/JUSTL_7_34.jpg

[Galactus]

Agreed. I still think Russo behind it. It's the most plausible explanation.

But yeah I feel like DC's message to me right now is "Ahhh, screw off you old fogey. Get on board with the new stuff or quit reading." Seriously.

Wasn't that the message readers must have had during the original Crisis On The Infinite Earths. From your posts you seem a fan of post crisis era so this kind of change is fine is fine and dandy as long as it's not your continuity being changed.

Not that I'm defending all the New 52 changes. Like you and Andrew I feel it's odd they would revamp Earth 2 so drasticaly, such things are why growing up I was more a Marvel man than DC but I've long accepted this is the way DC works from the original "Flash of Two Worlds" to "Zero Hour", to the Crisis to the other Crisis and the Crisis after that.

They'll eventualy restore things to "normal" but keep the post Flashpoint elements that have been commercialy successful or creatvely lauded.

Looks like Billy's getting a new look, and a alter ego name change.

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2012/03/06/hey-everybody-heres-the-first-look-at-dcs-shazam/


Truly terrible. So terrible I didn't even want the pic appearing on my post.

[Andrew NDB]

But yeah I feel like DC's message to me right now is "Ahhh, screw off you old fogey. Get on board with the new stuff or quit reading." Seriously.

I believe you're right. The sad part is, I think I may have to just go ahead and do the latter.

[ZariusTwo]

such things are why growing up I was more a Marvel man than DC

Can't see why. Marvel basicly insult their readers intelligence every chance they get.

[Galactus]

Can't see why. Marvel basicly insult their readers intelligence every chance they get.

True but as kid it didn't seem that way.

Not to mention when I first started properly reading comics Marvel was a lot more straight forward and it was easy to get a sense of the history of my favourite books.

[ZariusTwo]

Preview of the new Earth-2 title.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/story/2012-04-30/Earth-2-comic-book-series/54642260/1

Interesting to note Huntress began her career as Robin on this Earth, with Power Girl going by the name "Supergirl". There are of course heroes with those names in E1 so they adopt new identities whilst they are stranded there.

[Candy Kappa]

Looks like Billy's getting a new look, and a alter ego name change.

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2012/03/06/hey-everybody-heres-the-first-look-at-dcs-shazam/

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i416/jokertdk/Superheroes/JUSTL_7_34.jpg

I really don't mind the name change, sure people lose the superiority nerd-moment of saying "Actually, his name is Captain Marvel, not Shazam."

the new looks, eeeehh... Not impressed

[Leo656]

I liked Captain Marvel better, it's just a spiffy name. "SHAZAM" sounds like a Birthday clown by comparison, but I guess it's not terrible. I hate Marvel, all this mess just so they can keep their crappy, irrelevant Captain Marvel, who was only created as a big F*ck You" to DC in the first place. I don't care who filed first, DC owns the "real" character; I can't believe this crap's been going on since the 70s.

[Jester]

Well they are Marvel Comics, Leo...

I agree. It sucks. I kinda like the kid.

[Leo656]

Yeah but the Shazam character was around long before Marvel Comics even existed. When DC announced their intentions in the 70s to bring Captain Marvel back, Marvel Comics rushed a character with the name into production just so they could claim the rights to the name. Which makes sense, but it's dirty pool and it was forever ago, and I for one thing they should just accede the name "Captain Marvel" to DC and be done with it already. He's a far more identifiable character than Marvel's version.

I admit to being 100% biased, but c'mon, who accepts that guy as the "real" Captain Marvel over "The Big Red Cheese"? It'd be like if Marvel forgot to renew the name "Fantastic 4" or something, DC snagged it up on the condition that they have to have a comic using that name, so they do their own "Fantastic 4", and Marvel is forced to re-brand their book "F4" but the team is still referred to by their proper name within the pages of the book. Both companies would be within their rights, but it would still be stupid and insulting to fans' intelligence.

I give way too much of a sh*t, I know. :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

So I hear Billy Batson is now gay.

I know he's affectionly known in camp circles as the Big Reed Cheese...but this is ridiculous...

[Galactus]

Yeah but the Shazam character was around long before Marvel Comics even existed. When DC announced their intentions in the 70s to bring Captain Marvel back, Marvel Comics rushed a character with the name into production just so they could claim the rights to the name. Which makes sense, but it's dirty pool and it was forever ago, and I for one thing they should just accede the name "Captain Marvel" to DC and be done with it already. He's a far more identifiable character than Marvel's version.

I admit to being 100% biased, but c'mon, who accepts that guy as the "real" Captain Marvel over "The Big Red Cheese"? It'd be like if Marvel forgot to renew the name "Fantastic 4" or something, DC snagged it up on the condition that they have to have a comic using that name, so they do their own "Fantastic 4", and Marvel is forced to re-brand their book "F4" but the team is still referred to by their proper name within the pages of the book. Both companies would be within their rights, but it would still be stupid and insulting to fans' intelligence.

I give way too much of a sh*t, I know. :lol:

I'm not one to defend the new take on Captain Marvel or "Shazam" but it strikes me that the name change is fine. I'm not an expert on the characters history but I can't think of a reason why he's called Captain Marvel in the first place. It's whimsical I guess kind of like Marvel's Avengers originaly being called that simply "because" but since they can't use the original character name they may as well go with a name that makes sense and that they can use.

The whole bother about the name is DC's fault anyway. If they hadn't stopped Fawcett from publishing Captain Marvel because he outsold Superman the character wouldn't have been in limbo for and thus years and thus Marvel wouldn't have been able to buy the name. I can't help but think of that as karma.

I always preferred the Marvel version, particularly Genis-Vell but it's not like anyone outside of comic fans care or have a preference. The big red cheese has been in other media but it's not like anything big and neither have any of the Vells.

So I hear Billy Batson is now gay.

I thought it was Wally West or Alan Scott. They should make it Batman and watch the internet explode.

[Leo656]

It's Alan Scott, and its not necessary. Not because it's bad on its face, but because I'd prefer they come up with a new character rather than make a huge change to an existing one, especially one as established as Alan Scott. They only did it to compensate for losing Obsidian (who was gay), so I ask, "WHY lose Obsidian?" Why lose ALL the established JSA history from WWII and beyond? It's a vital piece of their history, they couldn't just say "The JSA did exist in the 1940s, but were trapped in a parallel universe until NOW and that's why they aren't 100"?

Show me the f*cking rule that says super-heroes need to be 25-30 years old for readers to like them. Seriously. OH MY GOD this retcon is THE SH*TS. They even had to f*ck up the JSA, one of my favorite parts of DC canon. I'm about to just quit, and 5 years ago I was so into everything DC did. They couldn't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight right now.

[Galactus]

^^^

I would argue that it had to be an already established character in order for it to make an impact and then walk the tightrope of choosing someone important enough for it to be relevant and not important enough that it would get people in uproar.

In that respect I feel they failed. Alan Scott may have an important legacy but he's very much irrelevant to the current DC universe. Seemingly even moreso in the New 52. They may have well created someone new for all the impact Alan Scott's sexuality will have on readers.

[Leo656]

You're right to a point, but it's a cheap stunt either way. Moreso since they've had lots of gay characters in the last few years. The fact they announced it so close to Marvel's own gay wedding storyline was so blatantly transparent it's insulting.

I have such a hard time believing the guys running the show at DC now are the same people who did Infinite/Final Crisis, Blackest Night, etc., all stories I loved a lot. It's like they all went nuts overnight.

You know how the retcon feels to me? It feels like DiDio, Johns and the rest went on the internet for the very first time ever last year, saw the nonsense that dumb people gave as reasons they didn't like DC, and decided to retcon the line entirely to cater to THOSE people. I for one don't know a single comic fan who honestly thought 5 Robins in 5 years, Superman in nanotech armor, butch, psychotic man-hating Amazons, a whiny Momma's Boy Flash, and a gay Alan Scott were the keys to make DC #1 in the marketplace.

I mean, wasn't the theme for the last five or so years Pre-Flashpoint "We're establishing our rich history?" How did the exact same people decide "We're sh*tcanning our rich history" was better?

[ZariusTwo]

New 52 will be accepted more if it was labelled

"DC Something You Know...Whatever"

:lol:

My own theory on why they went postal on the old continuity? DC got high on Superman: Earth One's success and saw it as the way forward.

I feel the old continuity was missing the ball at the time of the reboot, instead of building a more "heroic age" post-Final Crisis (the way Marvel had done after Siege undid all the SRA s*it), they just went ahead and did more grimdark/heavy stories that an exhausted fanbase had more than their fill of. Sure we got "Brightest Day", but we also got "Cry for Justice", "Grounded", the sidekicks-heavy Justice Leauge etc, which did a lot of damage. GL and Batman were about the most consistent books being churned out at the time, I'd throw in Titans too, but I know some fans were convinced everything about that team post-Geoff Jones stunk to high hell, though I personally enjoyed it.

So no surprise a book comes out, clean start, young version of a flagship character, tells a familiar tale, and gets fans all giddy and unified in praise all while DC continue to dick around with the old guard "breaking" and "dissecting" them at every turn. Nobody wanted that anymore, so DC threw their hands up and said "ok then, rather than damage the old stuff further, we'll just create a new youthful universe that we can muck about with and get away with it because it's a fresh story"

[Galactus]

It was definitely a cheap stunt but it could have been good but the choice of Alan Scott was such a cop.

I for one don't know a single comic fan who honestly thought 5 Robins in 5 years, Superman in nanotech armor, butch, psychotic man-hating Amazons, a whiny Momma's Boy Flash, and a gay Alan Scott were the keys to make DC #1 in the marketplace.

Well that's one way of describing it of course you could say that DC getting a revamp with it's most popular characters keeping their history and the the rest getting a new one and modern makeover which is supposed to make them more accessible to current readers.

I really wouldn't put too much stock in some of the things you mentioned. It's clear that a lot of the writers at DC are working with the smart mindset of not pinning much down in terms of DC's new history, all they work with is three dinstinct time frames since the emergence of super heroes. Since fans demand precision then Didio comes up with a number out of his ass that just about "works" albeit with a big stretch of logic. But it's not like Grant Morrisson is writing Action Comics in the mindset it's 5/6 years before Justice League he's simply writing it in the past whether it's one year ago or ten.

My own theory on why they went postal on the old continuity? DC got high on Superman: Earth One's success and saw it as the way forward.

Wouldn't the fact that the original Crisis and large overhaul of DC's continuity as it stood at the time pretty much putting the company on the map enough reason for them to try it again as well as a great excuse to relaunch with shiny new #1s which always sell as well precipitate major changes which they think will work such as the new feel Aquaman and Babara Gordon returning as Batgirl etc.

[Leo656]

Babs as Batgirl again is a big step back; her character made a much bigger contribution to the DC mythos as Oracle. Other than that, Crisis was the one time where it more or less worked but I've never felt you should do it all that often or it loses impact. ALL stories risk losing some emotional relevance when you can easily look at it as, "Eh so what, in 10 years this story won't have happened." Why bother reading at all, then?

I also felt like sloppy writing for a very long time was a main factor in the Crisis being necessary, and as I pretty much grew up in a Post-Crisis world, while I admired and respected that story and the Pre-Crisis Universe, I always felt as though it represented almost as if DC had "failed" to present their universe correctly the first time. I know a few shufflings like Zero Hour can be necessary now and then, but I'd always hoped we could avoid another 1986-style total do-over. It just smacks of failure and desperation to me. That's why even though Zero Hour is flawed, I always liked it better than Crisis. Zero Hour was like saying "All the stuff we've done is more or less ok, but we need to tweak a few things for simplicity's sake and so we can move the story forward". Crisis and New 52 are like, "You know what? Nevermind, let's try again. We'll get it right this time, though, trust us." It's just how it feels to me, I'unno.

Zarius: I like the way you laid it out, and I agree a bunch of stuff after Blackest Night was meandering, but it felt like it was a lull that would give the DCU some time to decompress before the next huge crossover thing. It definitely didn't feel as though the entire universe was limping towards the finish, that's for sure. I still feel they could have just tightened up the old continuity. Part of me still has hope they left a loophole; some characters seem to imply they remember the way things were Pre-Flashpoint, but who knows.

[ZariusTwo]

The loophole should be "this is all happening on a completly seperate Earth from the one you know". That's how I've been able to justify all the stupid out-of-character things "momma's boy" Barry did to make Flashpoint's events even possible. He would never risk his wife and his universes' already-fragile-enough stability the way he did in that series.

One thing I'm glad of is that with the Multiverse back you can excuse just about any dumb s*it you can come up with

[ZariusTwo]

Supes gets together with Wonder Woman and I couldnt be the least bit interested, neither it seems could the artist putting out this blandest day cover

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2012/08/22/justice-league-12-exclusive/#disqus_thread

"The new status quoe" is a couple most DC writers put together in their elseworlds and pre-job fanfic days. Yep. Big creative move there Jones.

[Leo656]

:lol: Action Comics #600 did this back in 1987, and UNDID it by the middle of the exact same issue. I predict this one will last a little longer... but only b/c DC is gonna lose Lois back to the f*cking greedy Siegel family in the lawsuit.

At least this will give people a reason to churn out more mediocre internet super-hero porn. :lol::roll:

[CyberCubed]

I don't understand why they don't simply end current continuity and restart fresh after every 15 years or so.

Think about it this way, everytime there's a new Batman show on TV its a reboot, and everytime there's a new set of movies its a reboot. Why not do that with the comics instead of constantly retconning everything every few years?

[MikeandRaph87]

:lol: Action Comics #600 did this back in 1987, and UNDID it by the middle of the exact same issue. I predict this one will last a little longer... but only b/c DC is gonna lose Lois back to the f*cking greedy Siegel family in the lawsuit.

At least this will give people a reason to churn out more mediocre internet super-hero porn. :lol::roll:

Despite a statement saying it was the new status quo its not meant to stick. Booster Gold just before being erased from exsistence( aka shelved until the next event) mentioned Superman and Wonder Woman were not supposed to be a couple, there was a glitch in reality. So it seems their hook up is only an example of a temporal anamoly. The Trinty War thing that is being set up or the more important one a little further down the road,Multiversity? My bet is on the latter!

[Leo656]

Cubed: A big part of the reason is that getting into and following comics requires a lot more of a commitment on the part of the end user than following a TV show or movie series. There's the financial commitment, the time commitment spent reading and re-reading stories, the emotional commitment of watching events unfold for your favorite characters... If it's not absolutely necessary, coming in every 10 or 15 years and saying "Guess what? Everything starts all over again, and the last 15 years of stories may as well not have happened," it screws with people. I mean, why even go to the trouble of establishing an origin or a backstory for someone like, say, Power Girl, when in 5-10 years we'll be told "None of that mattered, what really happened was *totally* different"? A little tinkering here and there is one thing, but wiping everything out every decade or so just to keep things "modern" not only dates the material, but it makes each individual story mean less because it has little impact on anything that will happen in the future.

It's a little easier to accept, you're right, when it's a new TV series or a reboot of a stagnant film franchise. That's because most of those are self-contained "sub-universes" that don't require as much involvement to get into, and people accept that some things are going to be changed across different interpretations.

There's lots of reasons why I'm not a huge fan of this revamp. Mostly Superman. I sort of came into comics when he was first "revamped" for Man Of Steel, and I get that that story made a lot of people cranky at the time, but deep down it didn't change a whole lot about what we'd come to know about the character, it just streamlined things while maintaining most of his history. Some argued they didn't go far enough back then and are making up for it now, but I've never thought it was necessary to reinvent the wheel with Superman just because teenagers prefer Batman. The difference now is that this new Superman just isn't the guy I grew up reading. I have spent thousands of dollars over almost three decades following "my" Superman in comics going all the way back to the 60s, but the newer stuff feels like rather than making long-time fans like me want to read more of the new stuff, it reads like "It's all different now, if you don't like it, too bad", just contrary for the sake of it. Some of it feels the same, but too much of it reads like change for the sake of it which I'm usually not a fan of. The costume, the backstory, the new villains, none if it feels quite right. I check it out when I can, but as I've said before, I think they were better off tinkering with what they had. Those old stories aren't going anywhere, but part of me feels like it was pointless because none of it will matter going forward, at least for the forseeable future.

A lot of other things bother me, too. I get that Tim Drake had been Robin for a while, but I really liked him in the role; now he's Red Robin full-time, and correct me if I'm wrong, but was never technically "Robin" at all? I really liked Teen Titans going back to the 80s; Starfire was always an amorous and naive but good-hearted type; now, she's just a brain-empty slut who casually kills people like any random Image character from 1993. Booster Gold finally gets a decent push and becomes one of the best breakout characters of Infinite Crisis and beyond, only to be pushed aside once again so we can have books about rip-off Batmen from all over the world. Everyone knows Martian Manhunter was ALWAYS in the JLA, in literally every single version but one (and he was still there as Bloodwynd even then), he was a founding member of the JLA, and EVERYONE knows that... except, wait, you mean he was NEVER in the JLA at all? Because some editor decided he'd fit in better in one of those WildStorm books that nobody reads but DC keeps trying to shove down everyone's throats because they owe Jim Lee for making Batman popular again. It's just all so forced, contrived, and SO not necessary.

And that, Cubed, is why we can't just do a retcon every few years and call it even. Because when you do it and it's not necessary, you end up with trash, because you're forced to come up with "New" ideas when the old ones were working perfectly fine.

[ZariusTwo]

Despite a statement saying it was the new status quo its not meant to stick. Booster Gold just before being erased from exsistence( aka shelved until the next event) mentioned Superman and Wonder Woman were not supposed to be a couple, there was a glitch in reality. So it seems their hook up is only an example of a temporal anamoly. The Trinty War thing that is being set up or the more important one a little further down the road,Multiversity? My bet is on the latter!

See, I like that DC are trying to be a bit honest and say "See, this isnt how it's meant to be, and we're getting royally f*cked by something in the future because of it, read on to see if we undo everything, or at least, this little part of the bigger jigsaw"

Where as with Marvel it's basicly "Yeah, this character is never gonna kick the devil's ass and restore the continuity, 'cause he's a loser, and so are our readers, and they prove it by mindlessly buying our anti-climatic muck every month"

Oh, and Leo, you wanna take deep breaths before you look at THIS

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2572/detectivecomics0031.jpg

QU0tU9iAekE

[Leo656]

Yeah I remember they brought Jim Jr. into the books as a villain even before the revamp, I get what they're going for but I always find it a little too convenient when literally everyone in a comic has to be either a super-hero or a villain. Feels a little forced to have a rarely-mentioned supporting cast member who was always pretty much forgotten become a major villain just because they know or are related to a more well-known cast member, but I might not have read enough of it to have a solid opinion.

I'm also one of those who feel Oracle was too important to lose just because DC wants to be able to explain Batgirl in one sentence. Again, they spent years establishing a new, expanded history for the Batgirl character (as well as Barbara herself) beyond the same old thing everyone knew, and then they go "Nah, nevermind." They did the same thing with the Matrix/Earth Angel Supergirl, who I thought had a really great storyarc from the beginning, and I still argue that the Peter David Supergirl book was FAR better than any other Supergirl series before and definitely since. But after they put so much into it, they go "Nah, she's just Superman's cousin again", because it was "simpler", and I get that, but in both cases they pissed a lot of loyal fans off who were invested in the evolving stories of these characters.

In the 80s and 90s, Batgirl, Barbara/Oracle, and Supergirl, were among the rarest and greatest examples of something everyone says can't happen in comics: Real change, and furthermore real change that managed to please or at least not alienate most readers. And in the end, they decide to "evolve" them by taking two giant steps backwards. I just don't get it.

At the same time, since *some* of the New 52 is so different than the old stuff, it's frustrating that some of it is almost exactly the same. I'm not saying it has to be all or nothing, just saying that it's clearly implied that *some* of the old status quo was worth keeping, which also unfairly implies that other stuff was so broken it wasn't worth keeping, which we all know isn't true.

[Dirty Blond]

I like how Superman now wears jeans.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah I remember they brought Jim Jr. into the books as a villain even before the revamp, I get what they're going for but I always find it a little too convenient when literally everyone in a comic has to be either a super-hero or a villain. Feels a little forced to have a rarely-mentioned supporting cast member who was always pretty much forgotten become a major villain just because they know or are related to a more well-known cast member, but I might not have read enough of it to have a solid opinion.

The odd thing about James Jr. Is he is a "replacement" character in place of Tony Gordon. Tony was a CIA Agent who was put in Witness Protection due to an incident with the Soviet Union.He was reference as far back as the late 60s' after Barbara appeared,but her older brother only appeared in '79-'80 in Batgirl stories after it was absorbed by Detective Comics. After his one storyline hit the climax he died saving Batgirl. I like that one better for a reoccuring character than the James Jr. Who was dusted off the shelf to be a crazy to play characterization off of James Sr. And Barbara "Batgirl" Gordon.

[Yep It's A Trap]

Do you think there's any shot of them just eventually ditching the whole new 52 crap and literally going back to the books where they were? I still find it hard to believe that the started over with Action Comics less than 100 issues from hitting 1000. I really hate the new continuity. It just feels like everything up until that point is almost meaningless. I really wish DC would have the big crass ones to just let some of the characters grow older and possibly die some day. Let the generation in 50 or 60 years reboot it for themselves but I always wanted to see the characters I loved in the 90's just grow up, grow old, and die with me. That might be selfish to those that came before me, but it's my childhood continuity from the Byrne decade, not theirs. I really would love to read the last great Batman or Superman story where they really do retire or die and don't come back from it. It really would mean something then and it would be epic.

[ZariusTwo]

Do you think there's any shot of them just eventually ditching the whole new 52 crap and literally going back to the books where they were? I still find it hard to believe that the started over with Action Comics less than 100 issues from hitting 1000. I really hate the new continuity. It just feels like everything up until that point is almost meaningless. I really wish DC would have the big crass ones to just let some of the characters grow older and possibly die some day. Let the generation in 50 or 60 years reboot it for themselves but I always wanted to see the characters I loved in the 90's just grow up, grow old, and die with me. That might be selfish to those that came before me, but it's my childhood continuity from the Byrne decade, not theirs. I really would love to read the last great Batman or Superman story where they really do retire or die and don't come back from it. It really would mean something then and it would be epic.

Precisly why many people consider the camics and shows that focus on the DCAU to be the best continuity for the DC characters, in that you get a beggining, middle, and an end without having to worry about neccersarily continuing on and on to please fear-changing brand loyalists or attract new readers (who are normally never as big in number as the big comic companies would like)

I'm very confident there will be talents in the future that will come from our generation, and they will take over DC and "fix" things in much the same was as Didio, Jones and co have been trying to "fix" things so the DC universe resembles the era they grew up in.

[Yep It's A Trap]

I truly hope so. I hate Morrison's work on Batman....like all of it. The art in the later books before Flashpoint wasn't that great. The fight sequences just seem lazy to me. You used to get to see every punch and hit. Nowadays, you're lucky to get one frame.

[ZariusTwo]

The DC Panel at Baltimore Comic Con marked the first DC panel following the first year of the New 52. Present were Dan Didio, Scott Snyder, Jeff Lemire, and Greg Capullo. The panel started off with DiDio stating that he skipped Baltimore Comic Con in 2011 because he was afraid of the reaction to the New 52. Other than that, the panel ran like most other DC panels I’ve been to, so I’ll share a few of the juicer bullet points:

Starro will appear in Rot World

When the New 52 began, writers were told to “write as if they were writing fan fiction.”

Though the numbering was reset, DiDio says that DC will recognize when Action and Detective Comics hit their 1,000th issue. (can anyone do the math as to which issue that will be in the new 52 numbering scheme?)

To the whole “Was Tim a Robin?” confusion, DiDio says that Tim called himself “Red Robin” out of respect to Jason. DiDio was unclear whether he began with the Red Robin costume, or adopted that later in his career.

Black Lanterns are not connected to the Rot.

Greg Capullo showed me a sketch on his iPhone of the Joker’s new look. I wasn’t allowed to take a snapshot for myself, so I’ll paint you a word-picture. The best way I can describe Mr. J’s new look is to say that it’s like the Joker made a mask of his own face. The eyeholes don’t quite line up with his eye sockets and the borders of the skin look frayed, almost like the scarecrow’s mask rendered in skin.

When the New 52 began, writers were told to “write as if they were writing fan fiction.”

A1Lxfm0oPr0

[Lampy]

i've been reading DC comics in chronological order for the past two years. and have read from superman secret origins all the way to the final night in chronological order. everyone from batman to aquaman, flash to roy harper. and i'm planning to continue reading the major story arcs (not just crossovers) it's tough continuing this reading knowing that at the end of flashpoint... i'm just going to start all over. and i looked through the new 52 books a little bit. the timeline sucks... and is very compressed. far opposite from the previous continuity. i'm not sure how that will work out or how long this new 52 thing will last. some say to just ignore what's canon and the timeline in order to enjoy the books... but honestly... it's hard. do you guys feel the same way?

[ZariusTwo]

im not sure how that will work out or how long this new 52 thing will last. some say to just ignore what's canon and the timeline in order to enjoy the books... but honestly... it's hard. do you guys feel the same way?

It gets harder when DC begin changing their minds over what is and isnt canon as the wave gets older and more "established". I've had to come up with fanon theories on the fly on a routine basis (the new reality is still in the process of stabalizing) to explain away the inconsistences and contradictions showing up in the books which differ from the original mission statements from last year.

[Lampy]

i guess he hardest part right now is that DC hasn't established a timeline of the new continuity. a timeline that should show which story arcs were canon and which arcs get the boot. my friends always complain by how they don't understand the whole batman debut/number of robins thing. it sounds very complicated... and hopefully by the time i get to Flashpoint... the new chronology is fixed.

[MikeandRaph87]

If they really wanted to simplify Batman they would have went the iconic appraoch and had Batman and Robin(Grayson) a few months to year after Robin joined Batman's crusade then have Batgirl join in sometime later and leave it at that. All these replacement characters adn extra vigilantes make it compicated. Besides I long for the Wayne/Grayson/Gordon stories.

[CyberCubed]

And this is why I don't read non-TMNT comics.

[Lampy]

And this is why I don't read non-TMNT comics.

hahaha... yea. consistency isn't one of DC's strong points. but some story arcs are just too cool to pass up. the one thing i'll say about idw tmnt that i like is that each story arc is no more than 5 issues... as opposed to the 12+ story arcs other companies establish.

[Leo656]

That's honestly a shame, more mainstream books can be a little obtuse to get into at times but (and I know I'm in the wrong place to say things like this) but none of the TMNT comics have ever been among my very favorite series. Love the characters, love the concept, love MOST of the execution, but so far none of the TMNT books has gotten it "quite right" to me, though Archie's came closest to what I wanted. Although I haven't picked up much in about a year so I haven't read the new stuff enough to have an opinion yet.

There's lots and LOTS of great DC/Marvel/etc. stuff that's easy for anyone to get into by picking up trades. Comics is comics, it's all good, the rest is just math. Or something.

[CyberCubed]

I actually wish they would go back and make "classic era" Batman stories with Batman and Dick Grayson as Robin.

It wouldn't be too weird, since in all the cartoons we see Dick Grayson as Robin all the time.

[MikeandRaph87]

I actually wish they would go back and make "classic era" Batman stories with Batman and Dick Grayson as Robin.

It wouldn't be too weird, since in all the cartoons we see Dick Grayson as Robin all the time.

Exactly! I grew up with Batman in the other media and Dick was Robin every time save that last season of Batman:The Animated Series for some reason. No matter what DC does Dick Grayson is Robin, the heir to the cowl. Jerry Robinson said as much in that if e is NIghtwing its limited things that can be done nad be true to the character. Every since I broke in to comics beyond TMNTA and was disappointed to discover Robin was not Robin and Batgirl was not Batgirl I have wanted to see an ongoing with thme in thier iconic guises. Alas,all I got was All-star screwjob. :( As bad as the new 52 is atleast Batgirl is back not some replacement under the cowl! Its odd for DC's reasoning for giving the cowl back to Barbara and not using the same logic for Dick Grayson as Robin. I'd like more than anything for Robin to be an ongoing of some knid not a replacement Robin. If we can have Batgirl maybe someday in some form of comic Robin as well. He is Robin in the Other Media for the most part for good reasons!

[ZariusTwo]

Cass and Stephanie were far more interesting than Babs ever was as Batgirl.

No matter what DC does Dick Grayson is Robin, the heir to the cowl.

And in the more rational minds of fans who can accept change (which YOU can't), Dick is Nightwing, he's been Nightwing for close to forty years now, and in a short span of time, he'll have been Nightwing FAR LONGER than he's ever been Robin. I don't understand how keeping him as a f*cking adolescent all the time helps him out, or him being an adult superhero stepping out of Batman's shadow "limits him". Jerry's an idiot if he thinks that. People age and grow older, and people establish their own identitys. This is a basic principle of life you half-wit.

Dick being Nightwing doesnt just apply to the comics either, as you say, he was Nightwing in Batman: TAS's final years (and that "some reason" was to synch up with the comics which had Tim, the best Robin EVER, in the role), and he's Nightwing in the second season of the Young Justice cartoon presently, so that blows your and Cubed's stupid "Dick be Robin forever and everz" beleif out of the water.

Hopefully your type never get to run comics, it's bad enough we already have the current crop of clowns making sure fresh characters get screwed over, we don't need to scale back any further thankyou very much. And I've yet to see any story currently with Babs as Batgirl that stands out of the pack, same with Barry as Flash. They are so f*cking boring. Bring back Steph and Wally.

[MikeandRaph87]

Cass and Stephanie were far more interesting than Babs ever was as Batgirl.



And in the more rational minds of fans who can accept change (which YOU can't), Dick is Nightwing, he's been Nightwing for close to forty years now, and in a short span of time, he'll have been Nightwing FAR LONGER than he's ever been Robin. I don't understand how keeping him as a f*cking adolescent all the time helps him out, aor him him being an adult superhero stepping out of Batman's shadow "limits him". Jerry's an idiot if he thinks that. People age and grow older, and people establish their own identitys. This is a basic principle of life you half-wit.

Dick being Nightwing doesnt just apply to the comics either, as you say, he was Nightwing in Batman: TAS's final years (and that "some reason" was to synch up with the comics which had Tim, the best Robin EVER, in the role), and he's Nightwing in the second season of the Young Justice cartoon presently, so that blows your and Cubed's stupid "Dick be Robin forever and everz" beleif out of the water.

Hopefully your type never get to run comics, it's bad enough we already have the current crop of clowns making sure fresh characters get screwed over, we don't need to scale back any further thankyou very much. And I've yet to see any story currently with Babs as Batgirl that stands out of the pack, same with Barry as Flash. They are so f*cking boring. Bring back Steph and Wally.

One thing,its a strongly believed and backed opinion I have held since looking at comics full-time.Emphasis on the opinion just as yours is an opinion.I enjoy Batman when its just Bruce,Dick,and Barbara.The New Look to Jason's 1st appearance is my favorite timeframe of any comic because its what was and still is for the most part what carries Batman in the Other Media. Its what I like not neccessarily others like yourself that actually perfer Tim. Barry in my opinion is bland and boring but its an opinion just like my belief of Dick being the definitive Robin that unless he is Batman has limited things that can be done to him and I love Barbara prowling the rooftops at his and Batnan's side.Its all about what one likes best and the three of them alone is how I like it. They are my faves after Michelangelo as portrayed by Coleman and Raphael as portrayed by Paulsen.you have your favorites and portrayal preferences and I have mine. Different opinions and personailities is what makes the world go round.

[ZariusTwo]

I'm still looking forward to the day MY generation, the ones that understand things need to change and that the next generation needs to be established instead of these decrepid Silver Age farts, take over comics. It's going to happen, and you better run to the f*cking hills when that happens Mr Change-fearer. The type that would have Dick AND Bruce function as Batman, Babs back in the wheelchair where she reallisticly belongs, Cass and Steph pulling double duty as Batgirl (and, btw moron, Babs was a replacement Batgirl herself ). Wally and Kyle as the primary Flash and GLs. Oh it will be glorious, hell the next generation could have even wilder ideas for the next phase and I would welcome whatever they'd bring to the table if it made sense and if it evolved the brand/mantle. I accept change, you? You can't, you want the status quoe maintained always, and that's detremental to comics and it's neccersary evolution.

[MikeandRaph87]

I like change that is neccessary not change that is not. Dick's 25 years of Nightwing are not nearly as great as his 45 as Robin. I have strong reasons why I like him as that heroic idenity just as I do for Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. I do perfer Hal as GL,but I like Wally over Barry. I admit I love the Silver Age and Bronze age. It appeals to me the most. It obiviously does not you and this fine. I just ask you to respect my opinion just as I respect yours. I don't think it will go the way you say nor competley the way I like either,but I am happy to get as much of Robin and Batgirl as possible just a you like your replacements as much as possible and I understand that.

What is Legends of The Dark Knight vol.2 going to focus on? Much like it did before or could we get the classic team and villain some as well?

[Lampy]

Dick is THE most developed character in DC. to revert him back to Robin is just a step back and prevents the character to develop and be his own man. if you want a wayne/grayson team... that's what Earth2 stories are for. Dick stays as robin well beyond his adolescence with barbara staying as batgirl. without dick stepping down... great characters such as Tim Drake and Jason Todd would not exist. It's necessary for him to step down. while i agree that he is the one true heir to the cowl... and should become batman... there must be a transition. thus, nightwing.

[shuriken]

In terms of Green Lantern Kyle was always my favorite. I never liked Hal or Guy Gardner (even his name is lame). Stewart is alright.
And Dick as Robin as opposed to Nightwing eh. I stopped following Batman after he was thrown into the past by Darksied.

[Lampy]

that's why i read everything i missed before Flashpoint arc. hahah. i'm dreading the day i get to that point judging by what everyone keeps telling me about that particular batman storyline.

my favorite GL is Guy regardless of what everyone keeps saying about him. so much tragedy in that guy... hahah. but still the arrogant ass that you just love to hate. there was a scene i remember in Final Night... that made me start to like Gardner's character. when he's drinking and Parallax shows up and they have a bro talk. awesome Guy/Hal scene.

[Fugitoid Jones]

I've really been digging most of the main Batman books (Batman, Detective, & Robin, Gotham Knight), especially Batman. I'll be honest, leading up to the new 52, nearly all the Batman books had really been disappointing me (especially the ones written by Grant Morrison, who I really don't care for). So the reboot has really been a breath of fresh air, at least in my opinion.


However, I'm not reading any of the extended Bat-family books, because I didn't like the idea of making Barbara Batgirl again (she was far more interesting as Oracle), and the new continuity with all the Robins is very confusing in this new 52 universe.

[Leo656]

I'm gonna throw my name in the "Guy Gardner Is Awesome" hat. I like Hal, and Kyle, but I never liked them as much as Guy, and I never liked Hal at all until Rebirth. Guy Gardner Reborn and Guy Gardner Year One: Yesterday's Sins are awesome beyond belief, even if a thousand retcons since have rendered Guy's claiming of Sinestro's ring entirely nonsensical in context with newer stories. He was always the "tragic" hero I feel most people could relate to, someone who means well in their own way and always tries to do the right thing but often over-reaches and is constantly misunderstood by his peers.

Like, I absolutely love Batman, but every time he and Guy had a tiff, I was on Guy's side, 100%. "Who put YOU in charge, ya smarmy prick? Or did you not notice Guy wields The Most Powerful Weapon In The Entire Universe"? :lol:

[Lampy]

I'm gonna throw my name in the "Guy Gardner Is Awesome" hat. I like Hal, and Kyle, but I never liked them as much as Guy, and I never liked Hal at all until Rebirth. Guy Gardner Reborn and Guy Gardner Year One: Yesterday's Sins are awesome beyond belief, even if a thousand retcons since have rendered Guy's claiming of Sinestro's ring entirely nonsensical in context with newer stories. He was always the "tragic" hero I feel most people could relate to, someone who means well in their own way and always tries to do the right thing but often over-reaches and is constantly misunderstood by his peers.

Like, I absolutely love Batman, but every time he and Guy had a tiff, I was on Guy's side, 100%. "Who put YOU in charge, ya smarmy prick? Or did you not notice Guy wields The Most Powerful Weapon In The Entire Universe"? :lol:

hi-5 dude! Gardner kicks major ass and isn't afraid to brag about it.