The Oroku Saki/Shredder Thread

[Donnie]

(Que "Shredder's Suite" music by John Du Prez...)

To go along with our individual Turtle threads, here is one for Oroku Saki, the arch-nemesis of the TMNT in most mediums.

Discuss whatever interpretation of Shredder you like best and why you like that particular medium's Saki the most. You can discuss why you believe Saki's role has been highly exaggerated by different TMNT "galaxies" like the OT, the Archie comic series, and/or the 2k3 show - or you can talk about the legacy of the human Saki versus that of the "worm" Saki.

I think it's interesting to note that I find (and let me know if I'm not alone) that Shredder is a very well received villain - he does have a lot of fans, especially around here.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

Yes Shredder is the most popular vilian in the world! He has millions of fans! He is my favorite villian! I like most the Utrom Shredder because he was the most powerful Shredder and a real threat for the tmnt. The 1987 Shredder i didnt like him so much because he was stupid and the turtles were defeating him all the time. i also liked the Demon Shredder but not so much like the Utrom. I am looking forward too IDW and Nick Shredder!

[$HREDDER]

I like all versions of the shredder but i probably like the 2003 version the best his oroku saki persona had a very distinctive look and i liked the fact that he actually killed people, it gave the character more menace. The whole shredder being an utrom thing I see two ways. awesome and also not so good.

[Bauer536]

Wow. Let's see, DonnyTMNT. Favorite Shredders:

-Mirage '84 comics: Very cool and very threatening.:tsmile:

-OT: Not good enough to be as evil as I would expect.:tsad:

-Movie 1: Really awesome. Totally badass!:tcool:

-Movie 2: Still badass!:shredder:

-2k3: Started off really cool. But what once it's real identity was exposed, I was left disappointed.:tconfuse:

-2k12: I hope he's that cool again!:tgrin:

If I had to choose, Movie 1 Shredder was the best of all. I don't know. That's like the first time I ever saw him before the other incarnations.

[Jester]

My favorite Shredder is oddly a toss up between 2 very different interpretations. I like the Fred Wolf Shredder paired with Krang. Their bickering was some of the best stuff in the OT. The other Shredder is the 1st movie Shredder. I swear as a little kid he gave me nightmares. He was great.

[ToTheNines]

I'm still waiting on a "perfect" version of Shredder.

His origin and overall character is pretty cool in the comics, although he has no good motivation to be such a bigtime criminal. Plus, ya know, he dies quite early lol.

He was awesome in the first movie. Not totally digging the whole recruiting of 14 year old street punks, but other than that this Shredder is mostly ace.

Love James Avery's Shredder, but he was mostly comic relief.

The Archie series was going places with him, but he felt underused (C'mon Forever War).

Nothing against Ch'rell, but I kinda view him as a totally different character. And **** Tengu Shredder.

So yeah... hopefully Tom's IDW book or Ciro's Nicktoon will step up to the plate in the Shred-head department.

[Venom]

The ideal version of Saki, to me, is a version that combines several aspects of what has been previously established:

- Menacing and dangerous when encountered alone
- Intelligent, cunning, tactical
- A human man in a suit of armor, not an alien in a robot.
- Having a twisted sense of honor and a nobility about him, giving him the presence that commands authority.
- A "self-made man" of sorts, meaning that while he may have used Foot resources, he managed to create his own branch and empire.

I still feel that Saki, as a person, has never truly been explored as a character. We get glimpses here and there of his true character, but never really knowing about the man behind the blades.

[herugrim]

Out of the Shredders I've seen, the live action version is my personal favorite. Dude was a badass, and Super Shredder was just wild!

Mirage Comics version would come in next. He was killed in the first issue true, but he put up a helluva fight.

87 series would come in next. He was a goofball at times, but he could still kick the turtles' shells from time to time. Also while the turtles ruined nearly all of his plans, they were never able to truly defeat and capture him.

03 Saki (the real one) would come in next. He was probably the single most powerful incarnation, but I'm not crazy about magic vampire shredder.

Utrom Shredder would come in last. He's definitely got his great moments, but I felt in the end his entire personality boils down to "Evil is Evil!" I could deal with him being an Utrom from Feudal Japan, but not even being the original shredder in his universe deflated him a bit to me.

Though to be honest I don't think I'd call any of them "bad" shredders. Any time you see Oroku Saki appear in comics, television, games, or film you know it's going to be a good episode/chapter.

[Bauer536]

The ideal version of Saki, to me, is a version that combines several aspects of what has been previously established:

- Menacing and dangerous when encountered alone
- Intelligent, cunning, tactical
- A human man in a suit of armor, not an alien in a robot.
- Having a twisted sense of honor and a nobility about him, giving him the presence that commands authority.
- A "self-made man" of sorts, meaning that while he may have used Foot resources, he managed to create his own branch and empire.

I still feel that Saki, as a person, has never truly been explored as a character. We get glimpses here and there of his true character, but never really knowing about the man behind the blades.

I agree with everything you said. I hope we see that in new Shredders of our time.:tsmile:

[Donnie]

The other Shredder is the 1st movie Shredder. I swear as a little kid he gave me nightmares. He was great.

I agree with this. Movie 1 Shredder is probably my favorite, second only to Mirage Shredder. Reason being, movie 1 Shredder was very well written, very Mirage based - dark and unhumorous. He was definitely a force to be reckoned with.

That being said, OT's Shredder was hilarious, and was probably the funniest part of the show, in my opinion.

[Fugitoid Jones]

My favorite Shredder would have to be the one from the first movie. I just thought it was the best written interpretation of him. I will say tho, that I do like every interpretation of him there's been (except Tengu Shredder). I even like the Shredder from the Coming Out Of Their Shells tour. Or at least I thought the actor had fun playing him, even tho the suit looked like ass.

[CyberCubed]

James Avery Shredder was awesome. Any supervillain who can double as a comedian gets an A+ on my book.

[TheCanadiandrome]

James Avery Shredder was awesome. Any supervillain who can double as a comedian gets an A+ on my book.
lol! yup for sure

[Weapons@theready]

give me a Shredder that kills somebody close to the Turtles then that would ass some fuel to the fire

[TheCanadiandrome]

give me a Shredder that kills somebody close to the Turtles then that would ass some fuel to the fire
yeah that would be cool

[herugrim]

Characters in a Nicktoon dying? Don't see it happening.

[Keldor1578]

4Kids cartoon, the only really good incarnation of the Shredder imho, He was the most dangerous and ruthless version of the Shredder. I don't count the tengu Shredder since he wasn't ninja.

Dreamwave comics, I have no idea about this Shredder, he only made a cameo appearance and the comics lasted seven issue.

Fred Wolf cartoon, He was mostly a comic relief villain and Krang's bitch.

Archie comics, He was an incompetent villain and got his ass kick by Ninjara easy.

New line cinema movies, He was a small time criminal and the Shredder recruiting street punks was just lame

Mirage comics, He was mostly a plot device than an actual character.

Ninja Turtles:The Next Mutation, He was the worst incarnation of the Shredder, He was pure garbage

[ToTheNines]

Although I hate Bill Martin's voice, Shredder was quite the badass in the Red Sky seasons.

[Donnie]

Let's start discussing IDW's Shredder. He seemingly is, so far, quite the horrible person.

A lot of fans have a problem with the fact that we do not hear any of the story from Shredder's point of view. Many have called for a clearer origin story, one that might even convince the reader to sympathize with Oroku Saki.

However, judging from #5, I don't think that's going to be the case with IDW's Saki. The guy is a cold-blooded feudal murderer.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I never thought much about it until recently, while contemplating the upcoming Nick incarnation, but Shredder is a complicated character for me.

Now, I LOVE the OT Shredder to pieces. He's hysterical. Sure, he's a big buffoon, but somehow manages to still be a great villain in a weird way.

But then on the complete other side of the spectrum, Ch'rell Shredder from 2K3 is...INSANE. I already knew he was radically off-kilter, but that exchange in Turtles Forever, where he says he doesn't care if he destroys himself, just so long as the Turtles die...wow. There's a comment about Joker in Dark Knight 'just liking to watch the world burn', and I feel Ch'rell has a touch of that in the end there.

Because of these two radically different versions, it's going to be hard for anything else to catch my attention like they have. I don't really want another comedic version since the OT nailed that. But 2K3 pretty much cornered the evil side for me too, so I think I'm always going to go into new incarnations of TMNT with a raised eyebrow in Shredder's direction until we get more of him.

Can't wait to see how Nick and IDW both handle him regardless though.

[MikeandRaph87]

I am just surprised it did not start off The Shredder as every version thus far has in IDW.

My favorite villain of all time is The Shredder but more specifically, the '87 series version. He made Shredder go beyond a one shot plot device in thier origin to a mainstay and beloved. He had a great voice by James Avery and its a shame Avery could not do a number of Shredder's appearances. Bill Martin makes Shredder sound like he has a cold,but does a respectable job in his seven episodes. Shredder was a threat, lived to kill the turtles as time went on,could still make you laugh despite being a serious character. No villain let alone any interpretation of this villain can beat The Shredder of the '87 series for me! I just wish people would not give this version of Shredder such a hard time. When Chr'ell scream he is the one true Shredder it could not be further from the truth. He is an imposter of the real Shredder of his dimension and the Mirage Shredder is that. While the Mirage Shredder is the true one its the '87 series character that made the Shredder what he is. A second favorite intrepetation would be The Shredder as seen in the first two movies. The two films are a great meld of the '87 series style and Mirage comics style IMHO.

[Metropoliskid41]

I really can't take Shredder too serious after the first season, not saying that I don't enjoy the Old toon, not what I'm saying, I love the Old Toon, I grew up on it, and think Shredder fit the shows tone well but I wouldn't call him the perfect characterization of the Shredder. It was great to see him as a reoccuring villain, but he was also that way in the 2K3 series as well. I prefer human shredder to Utrom shredder, but think that the mean, ruthless, badass characterization that Shredder has in 2K3 was better. So I guess I would prefer a mixture of the 2, a human Shredder, but with 2K3 ruthless and capable characterization. So essentially close to Movie Shredder or original Mirage Shredder, as a reoccuring arch nemesis.

As far as the rivalry and hatred between Shredder and Splinter, I really think the way IDW has tackled it is going to result in the best rivalry between them. Saki wronged Yoshi/Splinter, even more this way, killing his wife, sons, and him in a past life. To me that goes even beyond the already well deserved hatred Splinter had for Shredder in the Mirage & Movie incarnations, as a being who had his master or family killed. To me IDW one-ups that revenge factor in this series.

[Donnie]

As far as the rivalry and hatred between Shredder and Splinter, I really think the way IDW has tackled it is going to result in the best rivalry between them. Saki wronged Yoshi/Splinter, even more this way, killing his wife, sons, and him in a past life. To me that goes even beyond the already well deserved hatred Splinter had for Shredder in the Mirage & Movie incarnations, as a being who had his master or family killed. To me IDW one-ups that revenge factor in this series.

Absolutely, I agree. It's weird because in Mirage it was the Turtles that killed Shredder, twice. Shredder never even got (personally) close to killing one of the Turtles (save if you count Leonardo in his one-shot). Now, Shredder already has killed all four Turtles (albeit in different bodies) AND Splinter. The revenge factor is through the roof.

[MikeandRaph87]

I really can't take Shredder too serious after the first season, not saying that I don't enjoy the Old toon, not what I'm saying, I love the Old Toon, I grew up on it, and think Shredder fit the shows tone well but I wouldn't call him the perfect characterization of the Shredder. It was great to see him as a reoccuring villain, but he was also that way in the 2K3 series as well. I prefer human shredder to Utrom shredder, but think that the mean, ruthless, badass characterization that Shredder has in 2K3 was better. So I guess I would prefer a mixture of the 2, a human Shredder, but with 2K3 ruthless and capable characterization. So essentially close to Movie Shredder or original Mirage Shredder, as a reoccuring arch nemesis.

The revealation that Shredder was just an utrom convict took away his
being cool and threatening for me. It felt like it was putting Shredder and Krang in one package even if that was unintended and that didn't work with Dregg. As for the original cartoon version he was fun and threatening. I can take him seriously because I saw him as being surrounded by incompetence but not so himself. I also liked Splinter being Hamato Yoshi to make it more personal and remove the series of murders. I am not sure about IDW yet since we really have not seen much of anything yet just being in the fifth issue. I admit the whole reincarnated rivals sounds like Hawkman and Hath Set. I don't have an opinion on it yet but it takes away the same thing about Shredder the 2003 cartoon did and that is he was not human.

[Metropoliskid41]

I guess I can see where you come from in that standpoint if you're making the Krang connection. There is obviously a parallel there but for me it didn't resonate that strongly as I saw Krang completely different from the comic Utrom, which were highly intelligent and capable where as Krang was not. Again I love the Old Toon, can't get enough of it, still pop in the dvds and watch them regularly. However in the comics the Utrom were pretty sophisticated, so a psychotic criminal Utrom as Shredder was a far reach at all for me I guess, and found him much more threatening and intimidating as a legitimate threat to the turtles, even though some of that personal vendetta was lost. That's why I said a mix of the two was best, like movie Shredder, or Mirage shredder, but with more appearances and a bigger role as the arch nemesis.

[MikeandRaph87]

I think fans of the '87 series who also watched the '03 series have a harder time getting past that idea that is in the back of their minds while those who are just watching the '03 cartoon don't have that problem. Its no bias of favortism of James Avery's Shredder its just what we know before watching the cartoon that is in our subconsicous.

Then its agreed the movie Shredder rocks above all! He even has a great instrumental to boost!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8c4nANeUjs&feature=player_embedded#!

[Metropoliskid41]

I think fans of the '87 series who also watched the '03 series have a harder time getting past that idea that is in the back of their minds while those who are just watching the '03 cartoon don't have that problem. Its no bias of favortism of James Avery's Shredder its just what we know before watching the cartoon that is in our subconsicous.

Then its agreed the movie Shredder rocks above all! He even has a great instrumental to boost!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8c4nANeUjs&feature=player_embedded#!

But I don't think everyone in that demographic falls into that category as you claim, for example me. I was born in 1987 and grew up watching that series pretty much from age one on. In old pictures from when I was a kid, as early as 18 months to 2 years I can be seen sporting a red bandana and playing with my Turtle toys. I grew up watching the Old Toon and as I've stated many times absolutely love it and continue to watch it, however I have no problem getting passed the Utrom Shredder/Krang parallel in 2k3 as Utrom Shredder is so much more badass as than goofball Dimension X Krang. But yes Movie Shredder rocks :tgrin:

[MikeandRaph87]

But I don't think everyone in that demographic falls into that category as you claim, for example me. I was born in 1987 and grew up watching that series pretty much from age one on. In old pictures from when I was a kid, as early as 18 months to 2 years I can be seen sporting a red bandana and playing with my Turtle toys. I grew up watching the Old Toon and as I've stated many times absolutely love it and continue to watch it, however I have no problem getting passed the Utrom Shredder/Krang parallel in 2k3 as Utrom Shredder is so much more badass as than goofball Dimension X Krang. But yes Movie Shredder rocks :tgrin:

Let's say some do some don't. I remember thinking as soon as I saw the flashback sequence and the utrom convict was shown, "So this is how Krang is going be referenced as making Shredder the Krang equivilant to the actual species Krang was derived from!" and I found this very site for the first time when checking my theory. A friend of mine actually stopped watching because of that idea stuck in his head.

We are the same age( that is the double meaning of my screenname) and started around the same time around '89 while still toddlers. It shows just how early one can become a fan of something and stick with it.:)

[AK_Mikey_Fan]

When it comes to the Shredder for me, it's a three way tie between Mirage Shredder, OT Shredder and Live-action Shredder.
Mirage Shredder is a really sympathetic villain due to the loss of his brother and being motivated for revenge.
OT Shredder just has a balance of menace and comedy and that always works for me.
The live action Shredder...what can I say? He was 100% badass and evil incarnate. I mean, the turtles couldn't even beat him.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

The OT Shredder wasn't such a measly villain. He had made numerous hurtful jokes to Krang about his lack of a living body ("Don't you mean my hair?"), as well as telling Rocksteady and Bebop, "Shut up, you two, before I sell you to a freak show!" So he was a personally nasty man.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I actually like the fight scenes when he, in "Incredible Shrinking Turtles", takes down the TMNT one by one.

[TobTurn]

The Shredder is my favorite villain ever, and as you've probably noticed, I like the 2k3 Shredder the most. That he's an Utrom takes away nothing of his awesomeness - I actually love that he's an alien bug! But that's because he's the first Shredder I ever saw or even knew of, I guess. People shouldn't whine about him not being human. Why is it so bad? Him being an Utrom makes the origin story of the Turtles more interesting than any other, except for the IDW one. That one just rocks. And it's not like his robotic body fights by itself - Ch'rell actually had to learn the martial arts, and he did. It's not just because he is so strong because of his robotic body, it's his technique as well. In the turtles' first encounter with him he kicked their asses, and mostly because he was just a better fighter and a better martial artist (is that even a correct word, martial artist? :p) Also, he has amazing speed and strength without his body. Not at first, but the creators decided to add that to his abilities in Turtles Forever.

[tengushredder]

2k3 shredder is baddas ,the perfect encarnation for me.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

give me a Shredder that kills somebody close to the Turtles then that would ass some fuel to the fire

As I said, Shredder blew up Channel 6 in the 1987 cartoon (season 8), almost killing April and Irma, if it wasn't for Splinter who saved them. It was Bebop and Rocksteady who were stupid. Shredder was an awesome bad guy when he actually used his martial skills to take down the TMNT and sometimes even Splinter.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Characters in a Nicktoon dying? Don't see it happening.

Avatar the Last Airbender would like a word with you. Genocide? Parents/siblings/children implied killed in war? Child soldiers? Right there.

I am grateful OT Shredder was the one who cemented the word "ARCHENEMY" when one hears the TMNT, because Mirage version of that guy was offed in their debut comic.

But Movie1!Shredder will be always the one for me.

Never liked 2K3 Shredder, he came off embarrassingly cartoon villain cliche to be emotionally invested on him.

[Logan]

The Shredder is easily my favorite villain in the TMNT franchise. My thoughts...

Mirage- Great design and probably my favorite incarnation. His resurrection was probably the most interesting I've ever seen for a comic character.

Movie- I more-or-less consider him the same as the one from the comics ("BABIES!" line and donut scene notwithstanding). I only wish the turtles actually defeated him in combat in the films as opposed to be dispatched in humiliating ways.

OT- Hit and miss. I love his design and James Avery's voice, but apart from the Season 1, 6 (?), and 8 I find his ineptitude to be grating.

Archie- Have only really started reading the Archie series, so I'll hold off judgment for now.

2k3- I thought the armored look was a nice variation, though not particularly practical from a stealth standpoint. But it looks great. If only they hadn't made him an Utrom. :ohwell:

Video Games- The nice thing about the turtle games is that it's the OT without the same level of silliness that it entails. As such, the Shredder has the cartoon design but is still quite threatening. He's also got that awesome sword, phantom doubles, retro-mutation attack, and super transformation.

2012- Obviously, I haven't seen the show yet. But based on his design, I think he looks too pro-wrestler and less ninja master. The shoulder plates are too much and he looks like he's wearing a mesh t-shirt.

[CyberCubed]

James Avery Shredder is hilarious. I loved how he could go from a bumbling baffoon in some episodes to an actually threatening villain in others.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

James Avery Shredder is hilarious. I loved how he could go from a bumbling baffoon in some episodes to an actually threatening villain in others.

I hate when he's voiced by other people in English. I can't stand the guy who voices him in the Vacation in Europe epiosode.

[Genesis]

I more or less agree with Logan's perspective, other than the whole Utrom thing. That part grew on me, until now, I like it. As much as I love Baxter Stockman and Bishop, the Shredder will always be the Turtles' greatest villain, when portrayed appropriately.

On a side note, the whole Oroku Saki first name-last name thing has been switched and debated forever, but in keeping with the original Mirage comics, Oroku should be his family name, as the brother he avenged is named Oroku Nagi. They apparently changed this in the 2003 series as well as the classic cartoon (see TMNT 1987 Mistake 210 on YouTube), because when talking to Karai, they sometimes call her "Miss Saki," which honestly made me nerdrage a bit. If I were writing out Karai's full name, it would read "Oroku Karai." "Karai Saki" just doesn't sound right.

Curiously, Saki is normally a woman's name, since it has a delicate meaning that I don't remember off the top of my head.

[Jelly Bean]

I'm going to go with muppet movie Shredder. He was threatening, had a cool right hand man, and he was serious, and he was human.

Uncle Phil Shredder is awsome but not what I like in a "Shredder" you know.

2k3 Shredder got very tired very quickly. The show got too dependant on him after while. Plus, for a Shredder that is supposed to be serious and threatening he sure did alot of stupid "I'm evil and love it" laughs. I actually believe 80's Shredder has more going for him as a character than this dude. Plus this series got too bloated with Shredders runing around.

[Genesis]

2k3 Shredder got very tired very quickly. The show got too dependant on him after while. Plus, for a Shredder that is supposed to be serious and threatening he sure did alot of stupid "I'm evil and love it" laughs.His evil laughs were so great, though! As awesome as the first film Shredder's voice was, I really think that Scottie Ray gave us the best voice performance as the Shredder. He is as much the "true" Shredder voice as Kevin Clash is to Splinter. They remain the voices I use in my head whenever I read a Turtles comic.

On a side note, I really wish that the Shredder would actually shred somebody with his forearms. Like a good, tearing slash across the chest. Every time he kills anyone, it's always with a sword, a spear, or the prongs on his fist(s), which, granted, are far easier to get to someone's vitals, but still... for being called the Shredder, he never did a whole lot of shredding. And yes, I know this is largely due to the fact that children read the comics, too.

Whom do you think was a better right-hand man for the Shredder? Obviously, Bebop and Rocksteady are always a treat, but I mean more between Hun and Tatsu. I felt that Hun's rivalry with Karai in the 2003 series was a little odd. I think it'd be great to bring Tatsu back; I think he could take that massive brute down in a matter of seconds.

Now, I LOVE the OT Shredder to pieces. He's hysterical. Sure, he's a big buffoon, but somehow manages to still be a great villain in a weird way.Let's not forget that he originated the greatest Shredder one-liner, "Tonight I dine on Turtle Soup."

[TobTurn]

2k3 Shredder's laugh only really sounded forced when the voice actor had to make it short. Here's an example of when it didn't sound forced at all:

At 0:33

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[Hermano Dyvas]

.
As for the original cartoon version he was fun and threatening. I can take him seriously because I saw him as being surrounded by incompetence but not so himself.

He fired a heat-seeking missile at cold blooded creatures.
Screams incompetence to me. :lol:

But at least he got more competent in season 8.

[Uki]

I love every version differently. Probably the original Mirage and movie Shredders best. OT for nostalgic purposes... I loved the idea of Ch'Rell! I can't wait to get to know the IDW and Nick versions.

[Killer Moth]

When the OT Shredder was done right, he would be my clear favorite. "A Thing About Rats" has gained a newfound popularity in me, because it is a pretty good bridge between Villain! Shredder and Comedy! Shredder. Same with Season 2, as it was interesting to see him fend for himself and be a little more creative with his villainy. Once Krang and the Technodrome returned to Earth, he really did get lazy and complacent for a long while, didn't he? I have more to say about the OT Shredder, though, I'll save it for later today.

Second favorite is Mirage Shredder for all the differences and the ultimate "less is more" approach. As noted in TMNT Entity, Mirage Shredder casts quite the legacy for only being in four issues. It is a surprising irony, given his overall role in the franchise. Plus, his original motivation wasn't exactly a bad one, as he originally wanted to avenge his brother.

I'll comment about 2003 Shredder in a post, tomorrow. He is my least favorite, yet I don't dislike him, either. Or, he's grown on me in recent years, for a better explanation.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

When the OT Shredder was done right, he would be my clear favorite. "A Thing About Rats" has gained a newfound popularity in me, because it is a pretty good bridge between Villain! Shredder and Comedy! Shredder. Same with Season 2, as it was interesting to see him fend for himself and be a little more creative with his villainy. Once Krang and the Technodrome returned to Earth, he really did get lazy and complacent for a long while, didn't he? I have more to say about the OT Shredder, though, I'll save it for later today.

Second favorite is Mirage Shredder for all the differences and the ultimate "less is more" approach. As noted in TMNT Entity, Mirage Shredder casts quite the legacy for only being in four issues. It is a surprising irony, given his overall role in the franchise. Plus, his original motivation wasn't exactly a bad one, as he originally wanted to avenge his brother.

I'll comment about 2003 Shredder in a post, tomorrow. He is my least favorite, yet I don't dislike him, either. Or, he's grown on me in recent years, for a better explanation.

Season 2 Shredder rocks in the 1987 show. Especially when he takes down the TMNT in the "Incredible Shrinking Turtles" episode.

[Killer Moth]

Season 2 Shredder rocks in the 1987 show. Especially when he takes down the TMNT in the "Incredible Shrinking Turtles" episode.

Oh, definitely. I didn't realize it until a recent viewing, but it wasn't until "Shrinking" that he truly fought the Turtles in a four-on-one physical match. It was a brief, yet quite satisfying fight. Speaking of Season 2, he also saved the weaker episodes of the season, like "Teenagers From Dimension X," via his comedy. And then, of course, he was quite the SOB in "Enter: The Fly," which was great villainy in itself (poison April, sacrifice Baxter).

I also neglected to mention about the movie Shredder in my last post. The first movie Shredder is quite the badass, no question. Nevertheless, I do like SOTO Shredder, if only for his design. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think Shredder looks great in royal purple -- gives it a nice majestic look to him. Which is why the early Konami games are my favorite in terms of Shredder's design. Then again, as the Super NES Tournament Fighters game proved, his Mirage design shouldn't be ignored, either.

Nice to know someone else likes Season 2 Shredder, too.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Oh, definitely. I didn't realize it until a recent viewing, but it wasn't until "Shrinking" that he truly fought the Turtles in a four-on-one physical match. It was a brief, yet quite satisfying fight. Speaking of Season 2, he also saved the weaker episodes of the season, like "Teenagers From Dimension X," via his comedy. And then, of course, he was quite the SOB in "Enter: The Fly," which was great villainy in itself (poison April, sacrifice Baxter).

I also neglected to mention about the movie Shredder in my last post. The first movie Shredder is quite the badass, no question. Nevertheless, I do like SOTO Shredder, if only for his design. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think Shredder looks great in royal purple -- gives it a nice majestic look to him. Which is why the early Konami games are my favorite in terms of Shredder's design. Then again, as the Super NES Tournament Fighters game proved, his Mirage design shouldn't be ignored, either.

Nice to know someone else likes Season 2 Shredder, too.

Enter: The Fly rocks because Shredder poisons April with that flower. Season 3 also starts good, with "Beneath these Sewers" where he shoots the deadly ray at Splinter. Turtles on Trail is also cool, with bad-ass Krang inside that robot. Then we come to "Attack of the 50 Foot Irma", nice episode, but sadly, this is the start from where the entire action becomes less cool until season 8 starts with "Get Shredder".

[Killer Moth]

Enter: The Fly rocks because Shredder poisons April with that flower. Season 3 also starts good, with "Beneath these Sewers" where he shoots the deadly ray at Splinter. Turtles on Trail is also cool, with bad-ass Krang inside that robot. Then we come to "Attack of the 50 Foot Irma", nice episode, but sadly, this is the start from where the entire action becomes less cool until season 8 starts with "Get Shredder".

Yes, and it retroactively helps fuel the "Saki thought the mutagen was poison" theory. I won't wax on that, yet, but it was a nice subtler tactic with the Doku plant.

I haven't watched early Season 3, so I won't comment on the episodes you cited. Not yet, anyway. However, I like both premises, and I can't wait to view those when I acquire the DVD set. I do agree about the action becoming "less cool" in Season 3 and onward, but at least Season 2 wasn't completely toned down (e.g., the robbery/gunfight in "Mean Machines").

Indeed about "Get Shredder" and all those lovely expectations it set up. Furthermore, Shredder had a sizable role in "Wrath of the Rat King" and his nice brief sword showdown with Casey Jones in "Cyber Turtles." "Turtle Trek," I'll address another time. The best part was for me was that he stopped constantly insulting Bebop and Rocksteady (save once in "Trek"), which is a character trait that really drove me up the wall. One of these days, I'll be sure to female dog about that.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yes, and it retroactively helps fuel the "Saki thought the mutagen was poison" theory. I won't wax on that, yet, but it was a nice subtler tactic with the Doku plant.

I haven't watched early Season 3, so I won't comment on the episodes you cited. Not yet, anyway. However, I like both premises, and I can't wait to view those when I acquire the DVD set. I do agree about the action becoming "less cool" in Season 3 and onward, but at least Season 2 wasn't completely toned down (e.g., the robbery/gunfight in "Mean Machines").

Indeed about "Get Shredder" and all those lovely expectations it set up. Furthermore, Shredder had a sizable role in "Wrath of the Rat King" and his nice brief sword showdown with Casey Jones in "Cyber Turtles." "Turtle Trek," I'll address another time. The best part was for me was that he stopped constantly insulting Bebop and Rocksteady (save once in "Trek"), which is a character trait that really drove me up the wall. One of these days, I'll be sure to female dog about that.

Yoy should watch the show now. Do you watch season-wise or just pick up some episode?

[Killer Moth]

Yoy should watch the show now. Do you watch season-wise or just pick up some episode?

It depends on time, which I don't have as much of, these days, and my mood. Certain series, I simply pick-and-choose and then watch the rest later. (I opted for this with CBS Season 7, because I really wanted to see Baxter's final episode first, and then work my way around with the rest.) Most of the time, though, I do try to go at a serial pace when possible. Season 2 being so impactful, I thought it best to go start-to-finish. And yet, as many commenters have said, the OT's episodic nature is rather helpful at times. Because I tried to watch the European Vacation in serial format, yet I broke down and skipped ahead halfway through or elsewhere. Part of which was "The Irish Jig," which broke my brain. Heh. I love the series, but that episode is probably my currently least favorite of both the arc and the series in general.

I'm also kinda new to the DVD marathon format after ignoring it for so long, so I want to pace myself and I have a lot of other priorities to deal with, first. I hope that answers your question, at least somewhat.

Edit: I want to keep on-topic, so I'll wax about the various Shredder voice changes in Season 7. Avery is always my preference, yet Townsend Coleman and Jim Cummings didn't do a bad job, either. The voice swap doesn't bother me as much as it used to, being used to anime voice swaps anymore. While Jim Cummings didn't exactly nail the comedic parts as much as I would like, he would be my second choice as OT Shredder voice. Coleman, on the other hand, I thought well or better than I thought, hearing him more and more. He's definitely third place or barely losing to Dorian Harewood.

[kelligrafie]

Well today I discovered something about Shred-head I never expected. (1987 version)

He was voiced by Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince Of Bel Air (James Avery). I consider my mind truly blown. :teek:

[ObiWanFan4life]

One thing that remains a staple with ALL versions of the shredder, it's that his own incompetence and arrogance have been his undoing.

The Shredder Strikes: Part 2
After Splinter protects the turtles, Shredder takes him on, but instead of actually fighting Shredder, Splinter outsmarts him by causing a water tower to flatten him like a pancake.

Rogue in the House Part 2
Zog has a brief fight with The Shredder, after subdoing Zog, Shredder gloats about his being unstoppable, Zog springs to life and takes Shredder with him into the fiery chasm below.

New World Order Part 2
The turtles transform into dragons, Shredder remarks "There is no need to fear these TINY manifestations" before they blast him and send him plummeting to the bottom of foot HQ

And In the 2nd Movie, he transforms into Super Shredder, and collapses a dock on himself.

[pannoni1]

I think that Krang in the OT help recover Shredder's power since its likely that his human Foot was in decline. Krang provided Shredder all of the inventions to try and conquer the world, and his fighting ability with his Ninja weapons never defeated all the Turtles outright. On the other hand, there has always been a moment in each universe where Shredder's threat has been real. But Shredder in Mirage is my least favorite since he doesn't do much except kill Hamato Yoshi, and in the matter of one issue. The IDW and Nick Shredders currently are serious threats and have really made the Turtles main villain return to being the primary threat against the Turtles.

So, a good way to remember each Shredder by spelling out his name would go something like this:

Silly (1987 Shredder)
Hindering (Next Mutation Shredder)
Realistic (Movie Shredder)
Easy (Mirage Shredder)
Darker (4kids Shredders)
Darkest (Nick Shredder)
Elusive (IDW Shredder)
Ruthless (Archie Shredder)

[ironman29758]

I think that Krang in the OT help recover Shredder's power since its likely that his human Foot was in decline. Krang provided Shredder all of the inventions to try and conquer the world, and his fighting ability with his Ninja weapons never defeated all the Turtles outright. On the other hand, there has always been a moment in each universe where Shredder's threat has been real. But Shredder in Mirage is my least favorite since he doesn't do much except kill Hamato Yoshi, and in the matter of one issue. The IDW and Nick Shredders currently are serious threats and have really made the Turtles main villain return to being the primary threat against the Turtles.

So, a good way to remember each Shredder by spelling out his name would go something like this:

Silly (1987 Shredder)
Hindering (Next Mutation Shredder)
Realistic (Movie Shredder)
Easy (Mirage Shredder)
Darker (4kids Shredders)
Darkest (Nick Shredder)
Elusive (IDW Shredder)
Ruthless (Archie Shredder)

This. Movie Shredder and Nick Shredder are my favorite honestly, followed by IDW Shredder, Mirage Shredder, 4Kiss Shredder, Archie Shredder, and OT Shredder

[Pterobat]

I can't say I "like" any version of Shredder, in the sense of feeling an emotional attachment to him, but he sure is fun to watch.

FW Shredder would have nothin going for him if he weren't so damn funny. And he is. I don't want him any other way; based on other popular 80s cartoon villains, this sense of humour rescued his character from blandness. Trying or wishing for him to be more badass just feels "off".

Mirage Shredder has pedigree, and he works well in all his stories, but he's hard to compare with others because he's not a recurring nemesis to the same degree.

Movie Shredder's cool.

Nick Shredder is pretty boring, because he can't pull off that Big Deal Waiting in the Shadows thing right, and it looks more like he's just sitting around.

Ch'rell is my current favourite Shredder. No, I don't mind that he's really an Utrom, but in my mind, Tengu and Cyber Shredder are low-rent knockoffs. Ch'rell was great: slick, imposing, and utterly ruthless. Fun stories were told with him.