Would Next Mutation have been better received if there simply was no Venus?

[CyberCubed]

Just imagine if there was no Venus, then Next Mutation would have simply been a short-lived live action TV show. It would probably use the same villains like Dragon lord, etc, but it'd still be the four Turtles and Splinter.

I am just curious if the reason they want us to forget Next Mutation exists isn't because of the show itself, its just they want everyone to forget Venus as if she never existed.

So it got me thinking, if she simply didn't exist but we still had a live-action Turtle show, would it have been as hated?

[rufus]

The thing that I really disliked about the NM was the goofy soundeffects that were added to the fights. That and the fact that the villians at times were kinda portrayed goofy. Take away the sound effects, make the villians more of a threat to the turtles and It would be greatly improved.

[CyberCubed]

The thing that I really disliked about the NM was the goofy soundeffects that were added to the fights. That and the fact that the villians at times were kinda portrayed goofy. Take away the sound effects, make the villians more of a threat to the turtles and It would be greatly improved.

This is what I was thinking too.

[gobo]

Would Next Mutation have been better received if there simply was no Venus?
Not by me. The other characters irritated me more. Venus was just the poster child.

[Stingray69]

I really don't mind mn or Venus. Yea like others have said it could have been a little more adult less kid at times but hey it was a kid show. The worse thing in my mind was the way they did shredder and the foot that was horried.

[Nelson]

Why TNM was not better received is actually a good question. We (or some of us) are of the opinion that the series as such is a piece of crap, but we were already too old for it when it came out. Why didn't young kids, the actual target market for this show, didn't embrace it as they did, say, Power Rangers? Was this show even too stupid for them?

As a kid I remember watching many shows, not all of them were of high quality. To name an example, there was one crappy show, also live action and with stupid sound effects: The Banana Splits. I watched it! Wasn't a fan or anything but I did watch it. So I'm actually interested to know what did kids in 97 thought of TNM.

[ssjup81]

I liked TNM and I really liked Venus' character and I was also in my second year of high school (iirc). Of course, granted, I can't remember much about TNM, other than I liked it, that Mikey seemed to hit on Venus a lot, and that Raph didn't like her, and that Donny didn't like the whole spiritual stuff Venus was into. I know I liked Venus because of the whole magic and spiritual thing, though.

I can't help but wonder why it wasn't better received, unless they were trying to target the audience who grew up with the OT series as opposed to younger kids (but I'd find that hard to believe since it did come on Fox Kids).

[Powder]

Why TNM was not better received is actually a good question. We (or some of us) are of the opinion that the series as such is a piece of crap, but we were already too old for it when it came out. Why didn't young kids, the actual target market for this show, didn't embrace it as they did, say, Power Rangers? Was this show even too stupid for them?

As a kid I remember watching many shows, not all of them were of high quality. To name an example, there was one crappy show, also live action and with stupid sound effects: The Banana Splits. I watched it! Wasn't a fan or anything but I did watch it. So I'm actually interested to know what did kids in 97 thought of TNM.

I was 7 or 8 when it came out, and I loved the hell out of it. I still like it.

[Luzmagica]

In my opinion...I think the final appearance/look of all characters not filled the expectations of the fans....I do not blame indeed Venus.

[VaughnMichael]

I think it would have done better as a cartoon, but that's just me.

[mysterycolor]

i am very neutral to NM so with or without Venus it wouldnt make much of a difference to me...

[pannoni1]

We had Mona Lisa in the OT before this, and I clearly remember that having a female turtle didn't really bother me at the time. It was basically a combination of other things such as executive meddling by airing the same episodes over and over without showing the new ones, taking Shredder out too soon, no real human characters such as April & Casey, and simply too many filler eps. I actually liked the idea at first of a live action series given Power Rangers' success and gave me something to relate to and being more real after simply watching cartoons. But probably many people were so sick of anything "Ninja Turtles" that they didn't want to bother and thought "that was so 5-10 years ago". Definately the lost cause in the TMNT franchise that never had a proper ending.

[sdp]

Venus is is used as the scapegoat for TNM, everyone generalizes the hate for the show as if it was her fault and it is unfounded. You might not like the idea of a female turtle but besides that she was ironically the most interesting turtle in the show and unlike other people may have you believe she wasn't shoved down our throats outside her introductory episode(s) and we didn't really see any romance in the show outside a line or two in the first episode.

I know exactly why the show isn't like though, this is 1997 most of the turtle generation are in their early/mid teens and were in the process or had grown out of the turtles by that time so the first reaction when you see a kids show when you're a teenager "oh it sucks now". There are other factors of course, it had already been years since the peak of the turtles fad, and this really wasn't seen as a revival as much as it was the turtles keep trying to stay relevant. It wasn't something new. The fact that the show had a lot of slapstick noises during fights and the villains would act way too goofy turned off a lot of fans and all the blame is put on Venus.

Now as kids not liking it well I'm guessing most kids only saw it as more toys from that old show that wasn't from their generation. Personally I was still a kid when TNM came out and I thought it looked amazing, I loved the designs, the idea of another turtle was awesome and I loved the Dragonlord and the toys. I sadly never got to watch the show outside of random previews but if I had seen it as a kid I would have loved it. I did research like two years ago and apparently the only reason it was cancelled was because of licensing/money issues not ratings since those were fine. You have to remember it aired on a block with Beetleborgs a much sillier show than TNM and that was well liked and had great ratings, only got cancelled since they ran out of footage. This was also the time were Saban wanted to start their own Toku show so they needed money to invest in it while TNM required licensing fee's like Power Rangers did and PRs was his so he wasn't going to cancel that.

So in conclussion, no, I don't think TNM would be seen differently if it had no Venus, it wouldn't be as hated since there was no posterchild to hate but the show would have been the same and remembered as this shortlived show that wasn't great.

[Stingray69]

Nm was actually number 1 in it's time slot and the number one kids show at the time. So it had good ratings and was well received at the time. The reason I heard that fox did not bring it back was they dint own the rights to the show. So they where not bringing in the money with the show. Like they where with other lesser rated shows that they owned full rights to. They started filming the second season and all the scripts where writing.

[Logan]

Goofy sound effects and villains are Saban's speciality. Look no further than Power Rangers for proof.

I thought the redesign of the turtles was aesthetically pleasing, though not my favorite. I honestly don't remember much of the show. I remember the vampire multi-parter and thinking "vampires don't belong in Ninja Turtles!"

[ryukenden]

The blame does not lie on Venus alone. The core Turtles were portrayed as clowns while Venus was being shown as the only one who was serious which should have been Leo's job. The villains were also portrayed as clowns and their mooks were so dumb that they make Rocksteady and Bebop look like a serious threat in comparison.

[gobo]

Goofy sound effects and villains are Saban's speciality.
Main reason I always loathed Saban shows. >_< I'd watch The Three Stooges before that. At least they could claim 'lack of options' as an excuse for being so irritating.

[sdp]

That's unfair, other Saban shows including Power Rangers were not as silly as TNM, with the exception of maybe Beetleborgs but that was the point of that show... Sure other Saban Tokus have plenty of cheese but not to the amount TNM had. And I agree had they toned down the goofyness just a little bit and got rid of the slapstick sound effects in fight scenes and the show would be remembered fondly. Villains were fairly interesting and all it took was one silly line or episode that took away from how great they really were.

[Andrew NDB]

Venus is is used as the scapegoat for TNM, everyone generalizes the hate for the show as if it was her fault and it is unfounded.

Truth.

If anything, she was the only character on the show afforded any kind of a story arc... such as it was.

[Bauer536]

It sounds like Saban was forcing to stop the status quo. They probably tried to show that they were not sexist by forcefully adding in a girl. The reason why she could have been serious while the others were clowns was because it was showing that women are better than men. Women or men: it doesn't make a difference. They're ninjas! The men don't need to be clowns!

Sheesh. It's better if April were learning ninjutsu from Leo than this storyline. Don't get me wrong: I like the idea of Venus coming back, but this time, I don't want her stay permanently.

[Fugitoid Jones]

I agree with pretty much everyone in that Venus was not the cause for the general hatred for this show, but I don't think she helped the franchise at all either. Not only am I against including another member into the Turtles (any sex, not just a female), but I found Venus to be really annoying when she would constantly screw up simple phrases and sayings. It just came off as poorly written humor to me (like pretty much 98% of the humor in the show).

[Herald7]

The core Turtles were portrayed as clowns while Venus was being shown as the only one who was serious which should have been Leo's job.

I only saw one episode but yeah, that's definitely the impression I got. It's a typical mistake when adding female characters. They're made to be more mature than the other characters and just end up annoying the audience.

To clarify, I'm not against the idea of a female character; but I think any new character would just end up creating an imbalance.