Are you OK with the idea of Splinter being Hamato Yoshi again?

[CyberCubed]

Since we know Splinter will be the human Hamato Yoshi before mutation, its basically the same as the original cartoon and Archie version of Splinter...where he was a human.

This will make Yoshi and Shredder's rivalry carry through the series, but on the other hand it means Splinter isn't trying to avenge his dead master. It also means Splinter won't literally see the Turtles as "his sons" because he was human prior.

Personally I am fine with it. As I've always liked the old toon/Archie version of his origin too.

[Powder]

Sure thing, though I prefer Splinter starting out as Yoshi, it makes no difference to me. But he turtles gotta always start out as turtles for me.

[Slap-Happy]

This is one of the things I like about the new show. I really dig that they're bringing back OT elements.

EDIT: Should've read all the poll options, I prefer the rat origin, but like the human one too.

[CyberCubed]

I think the reason this is accepted is many of us were introduced to the original cartoon origin first, so the idea of Splinter being Hamato Yoshi has always been there.

If Nick was the first time they were doing this, I wonder if it would cause as much uproar as "teen April" and such...

[Stingray69]

Wow can't believe the votes yes I like this origin is getting haha. I'm fine with either but prefer the rat. And splinter very well still see the turtles as sons human first or not.

[Jester]

I think the reason this is accepted is many of us were introduced to the original cartoon origin first, so the idea of Splinter being Hamato Yoshi has always been there.

If Nick was the first time they were doing this, I wonder if it would cause as much uproar as "teen April" and such...
Good point. Since FW and Archie already ran with the Hamato Splinter angle, it's an acceptable change. I don't know what we'd think if there never was a continuity where Splinter was Hamato Yoshi until now. I'm sure there'd be similar outrage, but would Nick have even made that drastic a change without the precedent of the FW series?

[Luzmagica]

I think the reason this is accepted is many of us were introduced to the original cartoon origin first, so the idea of Splinter being Hamato Yoshi has always been there....



Yes...I feel similar about this....
Anyway I voted 3º option : I prefer A LOT the rat origin, but I still like the human origin too....(well ...not so bad anyway....) :tgrin:

[Bauer536]

Considering this is different from the comic or film origin, I don't mind Splinter being Yoshi again. There's just got to be a plotline where Shredder thinks he killed him or something. What's bugging me is who the heck his daughter is going to be. If it's a girl named Karai, she better be younger than the turtles and not the daughter of Shredder's.

[plastroncafe]

I think the rat origin is problematic from an cultural/ethnic angle.

[Jephael]

I'm very excited to see how they show Yoshi's mutation into Splinter on the new show!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It also means Splinter won't literally see the Turtles as "his sons" because he was human prior.



1987 TMNT cartoon Splinter still did.

[cryan]

I just think(story wise)Yoshi and Splinter being the same character makes more sense.I said this many times in the past but I just couldn't buy into a rat mimicing his master's moves in the first movie.

[BubblyShell22]

I chose option three. While I prefer him being a rat, him being a human isn't a bad thing as long as he's still a father figure and doesn't sit on the sidelines. I'd rather see him fight alongside his sons.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm only glad that this cartoon already had (the existing hardcore fandom aside) no chance of being seriously watched by anyone over the age of 5.

[Jester]

What? Andrew said something negative about a Turtle universe not the original Mirage comics...I'm shocked and a little dismayed.

[Xav]

1987 TMNT cartoon Splinter still did. I don't remember 1987 Splinter ever calling calling the turtles his sons.

[Jester]

I don't remember 1987 Splinter ever calling calling the turtles his sons.
Exactly. I was disappointing re-watching the FW series by how infrequently Splinter calls the Turtles his "sons." Mostly "friends" and "students"

[CyberCubed]

I don't remember 1987 Splinter ever calling calling the turtles his sons.

He calls them his sons in quite a few episodes, you just have to pay attention.

He mostly called them, "My students" in the old show though.

[ssjup81]

I personally prefer this origin to the rat one. I always preferred it because to me, it felt like the dislike between Saki and Yoshi was more on a personal level. With the rat origin, it just felt way too indirect...and I still have a hard time accepting that a rat practiced martial arts in his cage and was able to teach it. I prefer Yoshi being mutated with a background of his former life (kind of difficult to write one about a rat, don't you think?) and it makes more sense for him to already be a master and makes more sense to me to have him train the turtles as opposed to a rat hell-bent on getting revenge for his owner.

[Andrew NDB]

(kind of difficult to write one about a rat, don't you think?)

What a strange question to post to the TMNT fandom.

[Jephael]

What? Andrew said something negative about a Turtle universe not the original Mirage comics...I'm shocked and a little dismayed.

He's just looking for attention.

[Andrew NDB]

He's just looking for attention.

Yes, that must be it. What's the matter with me, of course this is Shakespeare... Fred Wolf mutagen is a wonderful idea...

[ToTheNines]

I don't remember 1987 Splinter ever calling calling the turtles his sons.

He did a few times.

[Utromshredderhater]

I grew up with both concepts so it's OK by me

[ssjup81]

What a strange question to post to the TMNT fandom.Well, to me, it was. In the comics, I do love rat > mutated rat Splinter and his personality and stuff, but there really isn't much that can be written about his life prior to his mutation, other than the fact that he was the pet of a martial artist. At least with the human > mutated rat story, you have more ways to expand on his background story because he was human.

[Redeemer]

I am actaully glad to see that kthey are using the hamato mutant yoshi storyline, Bc the 4kids jst used the rat origin and having a new series I am glad they r using a different origin and i think parents who watched it as kids who have kids now can relate and probably encourage their kids to watch it.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, to me, it was. In the comics, I do love rat > mutated rat Splinter and his personality and stuff, but there really isn't much that can be written about his life prior to his mutation, other than the fact that he was the pet of a martial artist. At least with the human > mutated rat story, you have more ways to expand on his background story because he was human.

I mean... I hate to be the typical, idiot straw man fan going, "Your logical Ninja Turtles argument is MOOT because these are fantastical stories about MUTANT NINJA TURTLES!!!" but in this case I kind of have to -- it's "hard to write about a rat" but it's not hard to write about 4 turtles? How so?

You can't even apply the same logic as Splinter (is he Hamato Yoshi or isn't he) to the Turtles, either -- in every universe, even the Fred Wolf universe, the Turtles were just normal baby Turtles prior to mutagen exposure.

and i think parents who watched it as kids who have kids now can relate

"Ahh yes, little Timmy. This cartoon really takes me back, back to the time I was a ninja master who was mutated into a rat-form. Gather 'round the TV and let us go back down memory lane."

[ssjup81]

I mean... I hate to be the typical, idiot straw man fan going, "Your logical Ninja Turtles argument is MOOT because these are fantastical stories about MUTANT NINJA TURTLES!!!" but in this case I kind of have to -- it's "hard to write about a rat" but it's not hard to write about 4 turtles? How so? The thread is about Splinter, not the turtles, but to answer the question, it's easier to write about them because they were really young when they were mutated. They sorta were aging like humans were. You can write about their life growing up into their teens. Seems you can't really do that with Splinter since we do know that the majority of his life prior to his mutation was in a cage. Like I said, it's easier to expand on his character (imo) if you do human > mutated rat than rat > mutated rat. Like I said, there really isn't much, I feel, that you can write about pertaining to his character prior to his mutation, 'cept for Saki killing Yoshi and that girl Saki liked (my mind is so blank right now. >< lol). I guess I'm just biased. I love how Archie handled Splinter's character and we did learn a lot about Hamato Yoshi in general before he was mutated (and could even put an age to him). I find it more interesting to see that set up because you feel more sorry for him (I feel). Here's a guy who was once human who lived amongst humans, who is now ostracized and forced to live in the sewers. Seems you just can't get that with the rate > mutated rat set up because he would've already been "ostracized" from the start.

I probably didn't word what I was trying to say properly, but I hope it made sense. ^^;

[plastroncafe]

It's easier to expand on a character that already has a lot of background rather than one who doesn't? I...I'm not reading that right, am I?

Because I'd imagine not having a lot of background to wrangle with would actually be easier to write about because you have the freedom to do anything. No pesky canon to adhere to.

ex: the IDW reboot.

Dear Nick,

Please have an Asian character on your show that is neither dehumanized nor is a villainous martial artist.

[Dirty Blond]

Either/or; I just don't understand how a rat can learn martial arts by way of mimicry.

[Andrew NDB]

Either/or; I just don't understand how a rat can learn martial arts by way of mimicry.

There's an untold story of how Splinter was never a normal rat to begin with. IDW seems to be doing their own story on that that seems pretty sensible.

[CyberCubed]

There's an untold story of how Splinter was never a normal rat to begin with. IDW seems to be doing their own story on that that seems pretty sensible.

Mirage had 25 years to have a story and explain why Splinter always seemed more intelligent than your average rat. It also would have been a nice Tales of the TMNT.

Why did they not do it?

[Andrew NDB]

Mirage had 25 years to have a story and explain why Splinter always seemed more intelligent than your average rat. It also would have been a nice Tales of the TMNT.

Why did they not do it?

I believe Peter Laird fielded that one on his blog in the last Q&A or so. They had a story but decided not too... I'm not clear on the reasoning but it just boiled down to them deciding to leave well enough alone after a certain point.

[UK_Raph_Fan]

I always preferred the Hamoto Yoshi origin, as i too believe that it adds a sense of tragedy to the character and i think deep down Splinter has more human qualities than a rat. I think that this way he has more dimensions to him. Just my opinion.

[Candy Kappa]

I prefer Splinter being a Mutated rat, but if they make the New shows story good I'll be fine with it. Never liked that Splinter was Yoshi in the FW series, made no sense that Splinter where not more active to remove Shredder as the head of the Foot when Splinter was the rightful heir to the Clan

[ssjup81]

It's easier to expand on a character that already has a lot of background rather than one who doesn't? I...I'm not reading that right, am I? Nope. It's easier to make up a story for a human character who actually had a real life compared to a rat who spent his life in a cage mimicking his owner (imo). It also makes Splinter more of a tragic character if you go the human > rat route. I also said nothing about using canon from other universes. I just said it's easier to me to come up with a nice background for a person who was once human who is now forced to live as an outcast compared to a giant rat who would've been outcast anyway, mutation or not.I always preferred the Hamoto Yoshi origin, as i too believe that it adds a sense of tragedy to the character and i think deep down Splinter has more human qualities than a rat. I think that this way he has more dimensions to him. Just my opinion.You worded it better, but this is exactly what I was trying to say. This is the main reason why I prefer the Hamato Yoshi > Splinter origin. The FW cartoon also has nothing to do with it. I do feel he has more dimensions to his character in this regard or has the potential to. Being once human, he understands what it's like to have been one and walk amongst them. As a rat > mutated rat, he technically wouldn't have since he still would've just been seen as a "pet" or a "pest".

[BubblyShell22]

I disagree here. I think you can still do a background story on Splinter as a rat. I'm sure that even as a rat, he had fond memories of his Master and could recall them easily. Plus, I think that watching your Master get killed would've been frightening for Splinter to witness and that he would have many nightmares about it. Not only that, but you could also do more with him being a parent to the four baby Turtles. I've seen many fics talk about raising them, and they were well-written.

[Whitewolf89]

Honestly? I'm not real happy about him being Hamato Yoshi mutated into a rat again, like in the OS, but I can live with it. We're getting a new TMNT series (CGI, or whatever) in a little less than two years (or so) after the 2K3 series ended, so that's the important thing to me.

(Translation: I'm happy about the new series. The other stuff; three toes on the boys, Splinter being Hamato Yoshi...not so much. But as I said above, I can live with those factors. Very happily, in fact.)

[rav4ge]

I personally prefer this origin to the rat one. I always preferred it because to me, it felt like the dislike between Saki and Yoshi was more on a personal level. With the rat origin, it just felt way too indirect...and I still have a hard time accepting that a rat practiced martial arts in his cage and was able to teach it. I prefer Yoshi being mutated with a background of his former life (kind of difficult to write one about a rat, don't you think?) and it makes more sense for him to already be a master and makes more sense to me to have him train the turtles as opposed to a rat hell-bent on getting revenge for his owner.True, but I feel that the mutation itself makes more sense in the 2k3 version.

Honestly, it's probably better for them to go with the Hamato Yoshi is Splinter path, just to mix things up a little. Besides, most people in this thread seem to agree with it, so there's that too. I personally don't mind.

Again, as long as the show is good!

[ssjup81]

True, but I feel that the mutation itself makes more sense in the 2k3 version.

Honestly, it's probably better for them to go with the Hamato Yoshi is Splinter path, just to mix things up a little. Besides, most people in this thread seem to agree with it, so there's that too. I personally don't mind.

Again, as long as the show is good!
Even though it is my preference (human > mutated rat since it's more tragic to me), Hamato Yoshi > Splinter or rat > Splinter, I'd still watch it, just as long as it's entertaining.

[pannoni1]

With this scenerio, I would like to see Oroku Nagi or Tang Shen references, as in the OT when Splinter was Hamato Yoshi, they didn't appear. It would be cool to see Splinter attack Shen as well as a rat. It would be interesting to see how Yoshi's family would react to seeing him transforming, and if they support it.

[CyberCubed]

Its already been confirmed Hamato Yoshi has a human daughter in this series, and he doesn't know whether she's still alive.

I just hope his daughter doesn't turn out to be Karai. :/

[Bauer536]

Its already been confirmed Hamato Yoshi has a human daughter in this series, and he doesn't know whether she's still alive.

I just hope his daughter doesn't turn out to be Karai. :/

If it is Karai, maybe it will be interesting. The untold story may be that Splinter thinks that Tang Shen had a miscarriage, when in truth, she was raped by Oruku Saki and gave birth to her. If she was to tell the truth to Yoshi, she'd die. I don't know. Try making a storyline like that by making it kid-friendly.

If there are two Karais, I wouldn't mind. Maybe the turtles think that the one of the Foot is their sister, but have no idea that their sister is in boarding school and has a more innocent face than the other Karai. Imagine. It will be like a "Who's who?" kind of plot.

[Jester]

If it is Karai, maybe it will be interesting. The untold story may be that Splinter thinks that Tang Shen had a miscarriage, when in truth, she was raped by Oruku Saki and gave birth to her. If she was to tell the truth to Yoshi, she'd die. I don't know. Try making a storyline like that by making it kid-friendly.
That's just it...there's really no way to make rape kid friendly. Why do you think they cut it out of the origin when they did the movie?

[Bauer536]

That's just it...there's really no way to make rape kid friendly. Why do you think they cut it out of the origin when they did the movie?

In that case, somebody better think about it fast. I won't mind it if Karai is his daughter, though. I probably won't like that element of the story, but may just watch it because of the turtles and the main stories.:tsmile:
I've survived through Smalliville, and I was a little skeptical when they made Lionel Luthor good helping out Clark. But I still loved it the way it was.:tgrin:

[Jester]

My thinking is that Saki adopts and corrupts Hamato Jane after Yoshi is banished from the Foot Clan, giving us 2 families that are in direct opposition to each other, kinda like the 1st movie (IMO, there is a distinct Splinter's Family vs. Saki's Family parallel.) or even the 4kids series. I see a plot point where the Hamatos try to redeem her. But, I could be wrong. I really can't wait. I've surprised they never explored the possibility of Yoshi and Shen having kids in the past.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Splinter being Yoshi doesn't bother me to much. I mean there is a way to make it work and after all we don't know to what extent Yoshi/Saki relationship will play. As a kid show I can understand why they would want to shy away from the whole murder/rape/revenge origin of Mirage. I still think it should be there but either way it really doesn't bother me.

[Zany Orange Dude]

I am pretty indifferent to whether Splinter is Hamato Yoshi or his pet. There are different aspects I like about each circumstance. I am, however, very excited to see the rivalry between Splinter and the Shredder!:

Even though he is Hamoto Yoshi in this version, I don't think that will change the fact that he see's the turtles as his sons.

[Andrew NDB]

That's just it...there's really no way to make rape kid friendly. Why do you think they cut it out of the origin when they did the movie?

Rape was never part of the origin.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I like this origin. I never thought it made sense that a rat could mimc kung-fu moves.

[Sage Ninja]

I'll admit that I like the Splinter as Hamato Yoshi orgin better than the pet rat. I think there is alotto work with with Splinter being Yoshi. There is something just really tragic about being human and tturned into what is essenticially a monster and being ostersized from normal society.

[Jester]

Rape was never part of the origin.
Re-read the post I quoted...I wasn't talking about the established origin, i was referring to Bauer's post

[plastroncafe]

Rape was never part of the origin.

Really?
Because that's what it looked like to me.

[Powder]

No rape is implied, if you were assualted while wearing a loose ass robe with nothing else on your tits would be wobblin' too.

[plastroncafe]

If I was assaulted wearing a loose robe my boobs would stay covered. If I were battered, however...

That said, unless there's a word from Kevin and Pete, that's how I read those frames.

[Abnormal Freak]

I never saw the rape implication and usually think people are kinda loony for believing that's what happened.

As for the poll, I don't necessarily like the origin of Splinter being Yoshi, but I don't mind it either.

[Andrew NDB]

The word from Peter is no rape.

Me: When you and Kevin wrote TMNT #1, was it intended to vaguely indicate that Oroku Nagi had raped Tang Shen?"

Peter: I can't speak for Kevin, though I suspect he would agree, but I always thought Nagi had only beaten her. -- PL

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/blast-from-past-326-september-8-2004.html#comments

[Jester]

It looks like an assault:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/pg13.jpg

[Candy Kappa]

I saw it as Yoshi stopped Nagi before he went that far...

[Redeemer]

it means Splinter isn't trying to avenge his dead master. It also means Splinter won't literally see the Turtles as "his sons" because he was human prior.

IDK Cyber it doesnt matter what origin they use bc he is not blood related so its a mental decision. and they could always give hamato yoshi a master that is mudered by the foot

[Utromshredderhater]

Human or rat Splinter will ALWAYS see the turtles as his sons

[Jelly Bean]

somehow I like Splinter a human better. In the 80's toon it just seemed more tragic that way.

[TheCollector]

Personally I like him better as a rat. Though, thinking on it I guess him being a human first makes more sense in regards to him knowing kung-fu. A normal rat learning Kung-fu by watching it's owner doesn't really make much sense. Still, I still like the rat origin better.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Yes, I like this origin. I always felt it made a lot more sense concerning splinter's knowledge of ninjitsu. Some people argue that his human past makes him less of an outcast then the turtles but I strongly disagree with this, it's not like he can just go above ground amongst humans now that he's shaped like a giant rat.

I say it's okay for Splinter to have some more background and it gives a lot of potential for yoshi-related stories you can't have with the rat origin.

It doesn't have to be a silly old toon like origin, you can still have Oroku Nagi (almost) wasting Tang Shen, Yoshi wasting Nagi and Oroku Saki wasting Tang Shen. You just have Yoshi survive his encounter with Saki somehow before he turns into a rat.

This will probably not be the nicktoon's origin though but I'm just saying.

[ssjup81]

Since they're going the Yoshi > Splinter route, I can't help but wonder if they'll keep Tang Sheng at all, but isn't there supposed to be some storyline about Splinter having a daughter or something for this medium?

[Hermano Dyvas]

Since they're going the Yoshi > Splinter route, I can't help but wonder if they'll keep Tang Sheng at all, but isn't there supposed to be some storyline about Splinter having a daughter or something for this medium?

Well, it would make sense if the mother would be Tang Shen.

[nintendo2600]

I like the Human to Rat origin of Splinter the best myself. It's alot more "believable" so to speak. When thinking of a rat that learned Ninjitsu VS a man that learned Ninjitsu the later is alot easier to accept in story form. Even with it being fiction man to rat does help to keep the concept of the charactor a litttle more grounded.

[stormbringer]

for me human to rat works best, its kind of a stretch for a rat to learn martial arts without mutation. Unless he was a genetically engineered super- intelligent rat, which would be kinda cool come to think of it.

[Konchadunga]

Yes; I am. As Doctor Drink X10 said in his videos, this is one of the few places where the 1987 show is arguably more realistic; having been a formally-trained martial arts instructor lends much more credibility to him being very skilled than just him immitating his owner as a pet rat. One thing from the comics that I would like to have for the first time, though, is the morally-gray nature of his origin story. I'd like an adaptation where Shredder and Splinter are both ultimately out to avenge the death of their loved ones, and just happen to be on opposite sides of the feud.

[TurtleTitan97]

Human or rat Splinter will ALWAYS see the turtles as his sons

I also preffer either origin. True that the originally origin with him as a rat, the one from the original show was more realistic. But whatever the origin, he is still Master Splinter: The turtle's teacher and father.

[Powder]

I'm not sure either origin is more "realistic". A rat learning kung-fu on sight from a cage or a man morphing into a giant rat after touching one...
Both are pretty silly. :trazz:

[TurtleTitan97]

I'm not sure either origin is more "realistic". A rat learning kung-fu on sight from a cage or a man morphing into a giant rat after touching one...
Both are pretty silly. :trazz:
That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still Splinter: The caring father figure of the turtles, no matter what his origin is.:tcool:

[Konchadunga]

He's younger this time, though who knows how that status will manifest itself?

[Gyt Kaliba]

I can go either way on this one honestly, I'm not invested too heavily in either 'rat' or 'human' origin for him. They both have their merits.

[ryukenden]

Splinter being Hamato Yoshi does make a lot more sense as mentioned.

[plasticturtle]

While I prefer the rat origin I'm cool with him starting out human this go-round. Probably because I grew up with the original toon.
It may be a stretch for a rat to learn martial arts by mimicing it's owner, but having had pet rats I know they are smarter than most people give them credit for. My rats weren't martial arts masters but they WERE masters at begging for Burger King french fries, which they loved for some reason. They knew how to manipulate me into handing over the goodies. Those little farts probably could learn martial arts if they put their little rat brains into it.