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oldmanwinters
10-15-2011, 12:41 AM
I wasn't really sure this was thread worthy at first, but I shot this by DrSpengler, and he thought it might be worthy of public viewing. If you are not familiar with the Palladium series of TMNT RPG books published between 1985-1990, then check out this thread:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=32860

The thing is, Palladium planned to put out at least one more major TMNT sourcebook, an extensive revision of the original volume that would feature some kickin' new art capturing the Turtles & company in their "new" Next Mutation era appearance. It appears to have been completed sometime around 1997, yet continuously delayed until Palladium dropped the license after 2000. The following is my account of how I learned of this fact.

Anyhoo, while at my local comic shop on Wednesday to pick up Darkwing Duck and Ghostbusters, I spotted a surprising sight. It appeared to be yet another Palladium RPG book featuring the TMNT! Alas, this was not quite the case, rather it was an issue of Palladium's "The Rifter," which I assume functioned as their fan-zine/newsletter/gaming supplement back in the late 90s-early00s. It featured an awesome Simon Bisley cover (even if he can't correlate the weapons with the right turtle) with some original TMNT artwork inside. Apparently, this may have been the last TMNT-associated product that Palladium ever put out, as it announces why they decided to discontinue the license and cancel the proposed TMNT RPG, 2nd Edition.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-coverbisley.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-Turtles.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-Leo.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-Don.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-Mikey.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-Raph.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/Palladium-Rifter9-April.jpg

It's a shame that book never saw the light of day, Paulo Parentes Studio had drawn up some niiiice work; I never knew the "Next Mutation" designs could look so awesome! I started to wonder if the rest of their work is still out there somewhere buried under somebody's stack of papers.

Here's what little I was able to find about the never published "TMNT RPG, 2nd Edition" on the internet:

An extensively revised, updated, and expanded second edition of the TMNT & Other Strangeness RPG, now being titled TMNT & More Strangeness, is being readied by Palladium Books, with new material from the Image Comics series (Volume 3) and Simon Bisley (of Lobo & Body Count fame) art (will somebody remind him that the comic book TMNT do not have different colored bandannas & lettered belts already?). After missing an expected release date of "Fall 1997," then missing another release date of "May 1998," then again missed its scheduled release of "late October or November 1998," was slated for release on January 29th, 1999, was slated for release in "late February," and was yet again slated for release on "April 30th," and currently has a much more broad "late summer 99" release date.

Alas, it was not meant to be. Paladium canned this 2nd edition when sales began to dip in the Image TMNT series during 1999.
http://members.fortunecity.com/neodevilbane/tmntrpg.html

Official Palladium site, courtesy of Internet Archive:

The expanded edition of this best-selling RPG will include character & world updates, new villains, the mutant underground, new artwork, new cover, and over 20 pages of additional material.
Don't underestimate the popularity of the Second Edition among old fans of the first edition, and the suitability of its use with Heroes Unlimited, 2nd Edition.
We regret the frequent delay of this title and we will slot it in for a summer release -- probably August.

Cat. No. 502-2
Retail Price: $12.95
Page Count: 128 pages
Cover by: Simon Bisley
Interior Art: The Parente Studio, Jim Lawson, Eastman, Laird and others.
Written by: Erick Wujcik and Kevin Siembieda
Compatible with Heroes Unlimted™, 2nd Edition.
Date of Release: Summer 2000.
http://web.archive.org/web/19991009040350/http://palladiumbooks.com/press/press.html

Looking back over a decade after the fact as a person who has next to no interest in RPG gaming, I have to admit I'm really disappointed the book never saw the light of day, as the sample art in "The Rifter" looks amazing; I can only dream of what treats might have awaited in a 128 page volume! The saddest part of the story is how Palladium only got about 30 pre-orders for a book that was solicited for a long, long time. I'm guessing some of you long-time, hardcore TMNT fans out there were among that small but faithful group. Can anybody else shed some more information on this lost piece of TMNT lore?

The editor's explanation for cancellation:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000229171929/http://www.palladiumbooks.com/tmnt.html
Powder
10-15-2011, 01:17 AM
I've NEVER seen the Next Mutation turtles look better. Yowza!
If you decide to scan each piece of the characters individually at high-res, lemmie know! Thanks for sharing this, dude.
Jester
10-15-2011, 01:23 AM
Yozza. That's some weirdly awesome art. I agree with the majority that seeing the NM Turtles in this style is wicked. Though that cover still bugs me as much as it did when Kevin used it for the Heavy Metal books.
oldmanwinters
10-15-2011, 01:34 AM
I've NEVER seen the Next Mutation turtles look better. Yowza!
If you decide to scan each piece of the characters individually at high-res, lemmie know! Thanks for sharing this, dude.

Yeah, I think a rescan is certainly warranted in the near future.

Also, here's another Palladium TMNT product I wasn't aware of until I saw it advertised in "The Rifter":
TMNT® RPG Accessory Pack™ (Game Shields): Two tri-folded game shields, one for TMNT RPG and one for the After the Bomb® series containing pertinent character creation, combat, and mutant animal data.

Plus a 24 page booklet with more data and adventures for Mutants of the Yucatan and After the Bomb®. Random Mutant Villains Table, Quick Roll Tables for creating mutant animal villains, and a guide to finding data on the Empire of Humanity. The entire package is shrink wrapped together.

• Written by Erick Wujcik
• Shields designed by Kevin Siembieda.
• Two, tri-fold, reference shields, full color covers.
• One, 24 page adventure/source book
• Compatible with the mutant animal section in Heroes Unlimited.
• $11.95
• Cat. No. 512, I.S.B.N. 0-916211-45-2
http://web.archive.org/web/19990507143616/http://www.palladiumbooks.com/catalog/512.htm

An "Accessory Pack" sounds pretty cool. I've never seen any pictures of it though.
Slap-Happy
10-15-2011, 01:35 AM
Whoa! The turtles look AWESOME!

I too would like some higher res scans of the turtles. Perfect for coloring!
Stingray69
10-15-2011, 09:11 AM
Thats some great art work. To bad they got the weopons wrong on the cover and I like raphs double sie.
oldmanwinters
10-15-2011, 10:59 AM
[Download link removed, but thanks to wilddiverse anyway]

Now, if only the actual TMNT RPG, 2nd Edition was floating around out there in cyber-space! Ah, but a guy can dream, can't he?
wilddiverse
10-15-2011, 11:43 AM
The Second Edition had a working title of "TMNT & More Strangeness". In 1996, as a way to increase interest in the new edition, Palladium ran an advertisement in comics offering a free copy of the First Edition to the first 600 interested responders. I still have mine!

There's no mention of the Second Edition ever being printed so apart from this material from Rifter #9, it appears that Palladium just paid the writers/artists for their contributions to the project it's sat in a drawer since. Shame.

I did see on the wiki that in 2007 Palladium was toying with getting the TMNT license again, but they were waiting to see how the CGI movie did. Clearly, nothing came of that notion-- I wonder if the latest iteration of TMNT comic/cartoon/movie might make publishing an RPG edition viable again?
oldmanwinters
10-15-2011, 12:00 PM
The Second Edition had a working title of "TMNT & More Strangeness". In 1996, as a way to increase interest in the new edition, Palladium ran an advertisement in comics offering a free copy of the First Edition to the first 600 interested responders. I still have mine!

Ah, a testimony!

There's no mention of the Second Edition ever being printed so apart from this material from Rifter #9, it appears that Palladium just paid the writers/artists for their contributions to the project it's sat in a drawer since. Shame.

After scratching around on the internet, I discovered that there is some mention of the proposed "TMNT & More Strangeness" books in some of the earlier issues of "The Rifter" (#4, 5, 6), and I even found this awesome Image-esque Casey Jones preview!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/PalladiumRifter04-CaseyJones.jpg
Advert on Page 110 of "The Rifter" #4 (also appears in "The Rifter" #5)
Gooseatello
10-15-2011, 02:27 PM
Casey Jones looks awesome
Venom
10-15-2011, 09:38 PM
Great, even more to add to this list! >_< :twink: :D
adz
10-15-2011, 10:32 PM
Man that art is outstanding.
Master Splinter
10-16-2011, 08:34 AM
Man that art is outstanding.

These are very cool. Would IDW have license to print these?

-ms
Cowabunga Carl
10-16-2011, 11:14 AM
I think it would be great if someone got the license from Nick to make RPG books. The problem then becomes though who do you market them to? Do you base it off the new comic or the new show both of which are currently going to be in the public eye, or do you base it off of the older comics, the Fred Wolf toon, or the 4kids show?
wilddiverse
10-16-2011, 11:49 AM
Whether IDW could do anything with these would depend on what sort of licensing arrangement Palladium and Mirage had in place-- if Mirage owned the content, then Nick would now hold publishing rights, yes? From what little information there is, it sounds like the unused art for the Second Edition book was created on Palladium's dime but never actually published. It's all conjecture on my part, but I would assume Palladium would maintain ownership of that.

Who to market a TMNT RPG to was very much the problem that Palladium ran into-- in the "Good Bye, Ninja Turtles" editorial above, it's stated that the TMNT franchise's success with the preteens had much to do with the decline in sales of the Palladium RPG as older fans didn't want to mess with kiddie fare.

I contacted Palladium to inquire about the availability of the TMNT 2nd Edition and the response was that it's never been made available in any form-- so it can join the other TMNT projects that never quite made it.
Xav
10-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Why is Leo wearing purple?
oldmanwinters
10-16-2011, 12:39 PM
I contacted Palladium to inquire about the availability of the TMNT 2nd Edition and the response was that it's never been made available in any form-- so it can join the other TMNT projects that never quite made it.

I'm glad someone got in touch with them and got a response. At least they haven't forgotten about its existence. How awesome would it be if they just decided to make it public domain as a pdf file?
Rooish
10-16-2011, 12:49 PM
Why is Leo wearing purple?

Why is Don wearing orange, and Mike blue (with a "D" on his belt buckle)?
Slap-Happy
10-16-2011, 05:27 PM
Bisley was never all that good at getting the colors or weapons right.
Abnormal Freak
10-16-2011, 05:36 PM
The strangest part about Bisley's piece to me is that there doesn't seem to be an actual "blue one." :p Both Leo and Don-Mike have varying shades of purple.

Anyway, yow, I didn't know this existed, this magazine with published art from the canned book. I may have to track down a copy and do me some ULTRA HI-RES SCANS for my own amusement. April looks funkarific, but those Next Mutation-esque Turtles look totally boss. And that Casey Jones RIIIIIIIIPS.
King Suck
10-16-2011, 06:54 PM
Kevin Siembieda will clear cut a small forest issuing cease and desist notices if he finds out your posting Palladium scans. As an old school RPGer i still remember back in the day when he was suing RIFTS fan sites for posting his material or when he sued Wizards. Looking around (http://www.jasonrichards.net/2010/05/palladium-sues-mmo-developer-rifts.html) the web hes still up to the same old crap. Guys a serious dick.
Cheesebrush
10-17-2011, 06:59 AM
An "Accessory Pack" sounds pretty cool. I've never seen any pictures of it though.
I'm sure I've got this - just consists of a games-masters screen and a short B&W paper booklet with some rules expansions, extra character classes, animal races etc. The main thing is the nice colour artwork on the screen. I'll have a look when I get home.
oldmanwinters
10-17-2011, 06:39 PM
Kevin Siembieda will clear cut a small forest issuing cease and desist notices if he finds out your posting Palladium scans.

Thanks for the heads up. I went ahead and pulled the links and full page scans.

I do respect copyright laws... even for a property that hasn't been published in over a decade. Still... what happens on the internet stays on the internet.

EDIT:
Okay, I've decided to compromise somewhere in the middle. I've deleted the page scans and replaced them with cropped photos of the art only. Most people here will probably prefer them since they are more readily color-able(is that a word?). If they become a potential copyright problem, they can always be removed as well.
wilddiverse
10-19-2011, 05:07 PM
Would IDW have license to print these? -ms
I contacted Palladium yet again to ask who's holding the rights to this material these days. This is the response:
"All I can tell you is that we cannot republish any of it. Since Kevin has made no public comments about the sale to Nick/VIACOM, I can't say more since all employees are bound by confidentiality agreements."

So, no new information there. Maybe someone in editorial at IDW knows more?
oldmanwinters
10-19-2011, 06:40 PM
I contacted Palladium yet again to ask who's holding the rights to this material these days. This is the response:


So, no new information there. Maybe someone in editorial at IDW knows more?

I would suspect Kevin Eastman still has a good reputation among the Palladium higher-ups. Perhaps he might could pull some strings, eh? Or a guy can dream, at least.

Bisley was never all that good at getting the colors or weapons right.

It figures that Raph would be the only turtle Bisley got totally right. It seems like he's the type to appeal to his own personality. :tlol:
DrSpengler
10-19-2011, 06:41 PM
Kevin Siembieda will clear cut a small forest issuing cease and desist notices if he finds out your posting Palladium scans. As an old school RPGer i still remember back in the day when he was suing RIFTS fan sites for posting his material or when he sued Wizards. Looking around (http://www.jasonrichards.net/2010/05/palladium-sues-mmo-developer-rifts.html) the web hes still up to the same old crap. Guys a serious dick.

Huh.

Well, I guess I'd better hope he never finds that Palladium TMNT RPG overview article I wrote.
oldmanwinters
10-19-2011, 06:45 PM
Huh.

Well, I guess I'd better hope he never finds that Palladium TMNT RPG overview article I wrote.

I would hope you're in the clear, Spengs. You didn't actually post any full page scans or download links, but just crops of the art. At some point, even Big Brother has to turn a blind eye. Heck, you might even argue it's free promotion for a series that most people haven't thought about for over a decade.
DrSpengler
10-19-2011, 06:57 PM
I would hope you're in the clear, Spengs. You didn't actually post any full page scans or download links, but just crops of the art. At some point, even Big Brother has to turn a blind eye. Heck, you might even argue it's free promotion for a series that most people haven't thought about for over a decade.

The difference, though, is that Siembieda has the money to take a baseless lawsuit to court and I don't have the money to pay court costs to defend myself.

So if I ever DID receive a cease and desist, I wouldn't be able to fight it and a little blog article, principle or not, isn't worth the drain on my savings just to keep.

I imagine Siembieda knows this and that's his greatest leverage over people posting cropped art from his books on blogs.
King Suck
10-20-2011, 08:22 AM
The difference, though, is that Siembieda has the money to take a baseless lawsuit to court and I don't have the money to pay court costs to defend myself.

So if I ever DID receive a cease and desist, I wouldn't be able to fight it and a little blog article, principle or not, isn't worth the drain on my savings just to keep.

I imagine Siembieda knows this and that's his greatest leverage over people posting cropped art from his books on blogs.

I haven't heard of him suing a fansite since the mid to late 90's. It was his wife that would brag on the company forums that she would google search for hours key words related to the company looking for copyright violations to turn over to their attorneys. They've been divorced for a few years now so i think Kevin is only going after people and companies with money he can shake down. You should be ok under the radar or at worst just get a cease and desist letter and thats if he ever actually becomes aware of it.

Fun fact Magic the gathering card game was originally created as a quick cash flow to help defend against and eventually settle a Kevin Siembieda copyright lawsuit.

I also saw a few of the Turtle issues of Rifter on ebay for a decent price if anyone's interested.