Are the TMNT crimefighters?

[Matches Malone]

After reading IDW's Raphael #1 where we see the turtles patrolling, it got me wondering, does the TMNT community consider the turtles crimefighters? Obviously this is just an opinion poll depending on people's preferences and what interpretation of the turtles they grew up on, but I've personally never viewed the turtles as such. I know the temptation to group them with the superhero crowd has always been strong, but the original Mirage volume 1 series didn't seem to indicate this. Most of the time, problems came to them (discovering mousers in the sewer, Renet interrupting training, running into Rat King in an abandoned building, etc.) and the only time they really did seek out trouble was facing Shredder. This is all (quite brilliantly) discussed in City at War where they struggle with what their purpose is now that the Shredder is destroyed, even so far as to loathingly refer to patrolling as turning into the "Neighborhood Watch." Yet other interpretations and mediums definitely have the turtles seeking out crime to stop. So weigh in, what's your opinion?

[CyberCubed]

Only in the original cartoon really, but even then they never actively patrolled for crime in the same way Batman does.

[Matches Malone]

Only in the original cartoon really, but even then they never actively patrolled for crime in the same way Batman does.

I think I recall seeing various issues of Volume 2 "Tales" with the turtles patrolling, but I'm not 100%. And even if not, I still feel like a good amount of the general populace view the turtles in the same vein as superheroes fighting crime. It's often put under the superhero category when looking in bookstores and such. Would you say your vote is a "no" then?

[CyberCubed]

My view is they don't actively seek out crime, but if they are tipped off to some sort of criminal activity going on, they'll check it out.

That being said the IDW series could very well make them into crimefighters, especially with Splinter hinting in that direction.

[Luzmagica]

My view is they don't actively seek out crime, but if they are tipped off to some sort of criminal activity going on, they'll check it out.

....


Im agree!!! :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

[Andrew NDB]

They absolutely should not be crimefighters and are not, as pointed out already, in any universe save for the Fred Wolf cartoon.

They are not a part of mankind and are not here to fight our battles for us or police our streets... they live outside of us, in shadows, peering from the outside in. There is simply no reason for them to be doing so.

That said, yes, if they happened to be -- for example -- crossing Main Street at night on their own business and just happen to see a lady getting mugged... would they just ignore it? No, they would probably jump in and intervene. But they wouldn't actively be seeking or rooting out any crime. Ever.

If IDW intends to have them cross that line and become like every other comic book superhero/vigilante, then that would 100% cause me to lose interest in what they're putting out there.

[Matches Malone]

They absolutely should not be crimefighters and are not, as pointed out already, in any universe save for the Fred Wolf cartoon.

They are not a part of mankind and are not here to fight our battles for us or police our streets... they live outside of us, in shadows, peering from the outside in. There is simply no reason for them to be doing so.

That said, yes, if they happened to be -- for example -- crossing Main Street at night on their own business and just happen to see a lady getting mugged... would they just ignore it? No, they would probably jump in and intervene. But they wouldn't actively be seeking or rooting out any crime. Ever.

If IDW intends to have them cross that line and become like every other comic book superhero/vigilante, then that would 100% cause me to lose interest in what they're putting out there.

Absolutely agree. I guess I overestimated the crimefighting element present in TMNT universes. Still, does anyone else remember some Volume 2 "Tales" issues of the turtles patrolling or am I remembering wrong?? It wasn't a dominating element, but still, I recall something... Wouldn't patrolling by definition be actively seeking out crime? Naturally, I would certainly be interested in Tristan, Bobby, or Tom's take on this!

Also, if you count the "future samurai turtles," in the Archie comics, they seemed to have a pretty established crimefighting headquarters...

[Slap-Happy]

They absolutely should not be crimefighters and are not, as pointed out already, in any universe save for the Fred Wolf cartoon.

They are not a part of mankind and are not here to fight our battles for us or police our streets... they live outside of us, in shadows, peering from the outside in. There is simply no reason for them to be doing so.

That said, yes, if they happened to be -- for example -- crossing Main Street at night on their own business and just happen to see a lady getting mugged... would they just ignore it? No, they would probably jump in and intervene. But they wouldn't actively be seeking or rooting out any crime. Ever.
This.

The TMNT aren't like Batman or Spider-Man where they go out and search for crime to stop. They have their own agenda so to speak. Such as fighting The Foot, or any other villains who they stumble across.

[DrSpengler]

The TMNT are... reactionary crimefighters, I guess?

Their "patrols" in the past have always just been training runs or just nights on the town; any crime they fight is strictly because they happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I've never seen them as doing "rounds", actively looking for wrongs to right.

So in retrospect, the idea of them going on nightly "patrols" in the IDW comic does seem a little out of place, especially when one considers they're still rather fledgling ninja and I can't imagine Splinter would permit them to go out and fight armed criminals every night.

Unless the idea of "patrol" was meant to be different than how we interpretted it; like they're looking for something specific, not necessarily crime, and we just don't know what it is yet.

[Abnormal Freak]

I don't consider them crimefighters, no. I'm hoping that what was going on in IDW's first microseries (which honestly worried me when I saw them patrolling) is just a kind of one-off thing, Casey and Raph hanging out, Casey being pretty keen on taking down lugheads and bozos, and it's just kind of something they do sometimes. In that respect, I see Raph being more likely to do the whole crimefighting thing, not necessarily because he wants to do good and all that, but just to bust some heads and get out some aggression, kind of tagging along with Casey who actually wants to take down the slime (as shown in E&L's Raph microseries and "Shades of Gray").

If TMNT becomes a crimefighting or superhero book, I'm saving my money.

[Matches Malone]

Unless the idea of "patrol" was meant to be different than how we interpretted it; like they're looking for something specific, not necessarily crime, and we just don't know what it is yet.

I initially thought that patrolling could mean protecting the perimeter of the home or whatnot from outsiders who may stumble upon it, but I think it's pretty clear when Raphael states that "all the good crime" is in Casey's neighborhood... As I said before, I essentially am on the same as Andrew, but as we get the discussion going, it does seem like the line is a bit blurred when we think about the turtles' varied history and what it actually meant when they went on patrols in the past...

[Andrew NDB]

The Raphael-Casey thing, the two of them going out at night to look for trouble and busting heads... that's always been its own thing. That's their way of blowing off steam... it makes sense.

For the rest of the TMNT, as a team to adopt such a practice? Apocryphal.

[Matches Malone]

The Raphael-Casey thing, the two of them going out at night to look for trouble and busting heads... that's always been its own thing. That's their way of blowing off steam... it makes sense.

For the rest of the TMNT, as a team to adopt such a practice? Apocryphal.

Hm... that's a really good point. Perhaps we can interpret Raphael #1 as the TMNT patrolling to keep watch on their home while Raphael intentionally goes to Casey's side of town to find some trouble and have some fun. I guess we'll find out as continue down the road...

[Andrew NDB]

but I think it's pretty clear when Raphael states that "all the good crime" is in Casey's neighborhood

Raphael, like Casey, needs an outlet and a consistent supply of heads to bash to sate his anger problem. That's well documented. There isn't always roaming Foot Soldiers nearby to acquiesce to this.

If that line were spoken by Leonardo, though, then we'd have a problem.

[AquaParade]

They are not a part of mankind and are not here to fight our battles for us or police our streets... they live outside of us, in shadows, peering from the outside in. There is simply no reason for them to be doing so.

That said, yes, if they happened to be -- for example -- crossing Main Street at night on their own business and just happen to see a lady getting mugged... would they just ignore it? No, they would probably jump in and intervene. But they wouldn't actively be seeking or rooting out any crime. Ever.



Andrew pretty much nailed it for me. The turtles are "heroic" and well-mannered enough to help an innocent person out of a bind, but like any other family, wouldn't waste their own time patrolling the streets in search of crime.

Are they caring, compassionate, and dutiful characters? Definitely.

Are they "crime-fighters"? No way. They are just a family trying to survive in the crazy world they inhabit.

[Candy Kappa]

Andrew pretty much said it.

But if anything, criminals makes good practice.

[ssjup81]

I don't really consider them crimefighters, not even for the OT series. I can only think of one episode where they were actually on patrol and that was when Splinter was working the turtles extra hard with their training (they were being lazy since Shredder and Krang were defeated, iirc...ep had something to do with a Medilaser or something), and told them to go out patrol. The turtles "rebelled" and turned off their turtle coms and stuff. I don't recall them going out in that fashion again for the sole purpose of "patrolling the city for crime" nor do I recall it even being mentioned.

To me, for pretty much all the mediums I've watched and been exposed to (minus TNM since I just don't remember enough about it), seems that they really only went out to "fight crime" when they were tipped off about something or if they just happen to come across it, or if it had something to do with Shredder and his henchmen (OT series).

[ToTheNines]

That said, yes, if they happened to be -- for example -- crossing Main Street at night on their own business and just happen to see a lady getting mugged... would they just ignore it? No, they would probably jump in and intervene. But they wouldn't actively be seeking or rooting out any crime. Ever.

Right.

The way I look at it is, most good people will intervene and prevent a crime to the best of their ability. And not only are the guys "good people", they also have the ability and then some, AND they live in a high crime area. So they run into it more often than most others would.

On top of all this, they're trained ninja who spend a lot of their time cooped up in a sewer den simply sparring. They're also young and restless, so they're going to want to get out and actually use these skills they have every once in a while instead of going easy on each other.

[oldmanwinters]

I interpreted the Casey-Raph Wednesday night patrols as purely "entertainment." They just want to beat up some people who deserve a whoopin.' The whole "vigilante justice" angle is more of a surface justification for their little hobby.

[Venom]

I'm giving the mention of the others going on patrols the benefit of the doubt; these TMNTs are still young and learning. Perhaps they are eager to go out and use their skills and are trying out a patrol routine to learn their way.

Also, patrol could just as easily mean they're going out for a while to explore the city. A metropolis the size of NYC has a loooot of alleyways and shortcuts to learn, and what better way than to go on a partol of the area to learn new routes to use in battle?

As has been mentioned though, no, the Turtles are not crimefighters even though they get thrown in the grouping along with "children's characters" in book stores. (No kidding, Books-A-Million only has a listing in that section for TMNT -_-).

[pannoni1]

Yeah, it still annoys me when TMNT is labeled as "children's", even though it may say something like "Ages 12 and Up" for the paper RPG book, which clearly belongs in Teen/Young Adult. It makes you question how timeless the franchise is when the original fans of the kiddie stuff are now in their late 20s/early 30s and are starting their own families. But if there was a "maybe" option, that's what I'd pick. In the OT, April sometimes acts like a chief to the turtles, claiming that something has been invaded and needs to be stop, hence making them crimefighters to her, and April would then report on the deeds that the turtles did. In most other incarnations, the turtles are more or less "war fighters", given that they must stop vast clan/armies in order to save the world and not simply catch criminals.

[CyberCubed]

Hopefully Tom Waltz is lurking this thread to get a general overview on the TMNT and their place in the world.

They don't patrol for crime and don't want to "clean up the city" ala Batman and Spiderman, but they will stop trouble if it comes across them.

Even in the original cartoon during Season 8 Raphael says, "We're not here to save the entire universe."

It amused me as the Turtles didn't give a crap about what was happening in Dimension X.

[Venom]

Hopefully Tom Waltz is lurking this thread to get a general overview on the TMNT and their place in the world.

They don't patrol for crime and don't want to "clean up the city" ala Batman and Spiderman, but they will stop trouble if it comes across them.

Oh, Tom has a perfect handle on those types. :cool:

[Coola Yagami]

Now that I noticed... they weren't really crimefighters in the OT either. They were just out to stop whatever scheme the Shredder was up to, and only went out on patrol when they needed to stop his latest plan. They never went out to clean the city and were more than content to stay home all day watching monster movies and eating pizza until Shredder's latest plan was revealed. Unlike Mirage, they never set out to find Shredder first....if the bad guys ever took a break, the Turtles would have been bored with nothing to do since they never had the 'we must take out the Shredder before he does anything evil' attitude.

I'd imagine if Shredder somehow survived his encounters with the Turtles in Mirage and would return with plots of revenge every other issue, the Turtles would have been seen in the same light.

[ToTheNines]

Now that I noticed... they weren't really crimefighters in the OT either.

Right. They were kinda "hyped up" as superheros/crimefighters and were referred to as such in the show, but when you really think about it, they weren't.

[CyberCubed]

I think the Turtles were called crime fighters on the Channel 6 news, but they never did actively patrol the streets in the old toon either.

Occasionally though they would watch a scientific lab they thought Shreddder would break into however.

[ssjup81]

Now that I noticed... they weren't really crimefighters in the OT either. Hm, I mentioned that earlier in this thread. :trazz:

[Kendamu]

I figure that, at this point in the comics, Raph and Casey fight crime together as their recreational activity as its always been in most TMNT universe. Anything involving patrolling and fighting crime that's happened before Raphael #1 was probably just a part of their search for Raphael.

If they do regular Batman-like patrols after this point then we know that something's different. I've never absolutely hated TMNT crime patrols so it's not like I'll stop reading, but the Turtles having to deal with their own problems in their own world and not necessarily "fighting crime" just for the sake of it is something I enjoy much more.

I'll never be opposed to seeing a Turtle beat up a mugger or something, though.

[Donnie]

Hm, I mentioned that earlier in this thread. :trazz:


Gotta hate when that happens!

[Matches Malone]

Just got the Ultimate Collection (which looks wonderful by the way) and couldn't help but notice in Kevin's annotations for #2 he says: "They have now become classic vigilante crime fighters!"

Of course, Kevin Eastman is probably much more flexible when it comes to things like this, but I just thought it was very interesting... The reason I brought this question up in the first place was to see what fans regarded them as, but either way, obviously the point of TMNT is to have them go on adventures which include battling criminals and villains. While they don't really seek out crime to stop, this is probably a telling statement in simply what the fun was in creating the TMNT: Any excuse for that ninja action, right?

[Hermano Dyvas]

They are not crimefighters as in actively patrolling the city to keep it safe but they will fight crime when they encounter it.

Besides, jumping rooftops makes good practice. I thought they enjoyed to do so as well. I think that's what their patrols are, a bit like going jogging so to speak, nothing superheroic about it at all.

[Metropoliskid41]

I wish there was an "other" or "kinda" choice :trazz:

I'm kind of split on this issue in the current IDW book. I think that Raph & Casey are crime fighters, but don't believe the Turtles as a whole are.

Raph & Casey teamed up and go and fight crime, not totally Batman style but they lurk in the shadows in the crappy part of town and do their part to clean up the trash when they get a chance, a hobby that it seems Casey has always had in every incarnation.

Now the other 3 Turtles in my opinion "patrolled" but it was to look for Raph, but they often ended up tangling with Old Hob in the process. Now Old Hob has a gang of thugs, that I would assume do normal gang type activities, steal goods, rob convience stores, kill for money, and probably sell drugs. I don't think they are just a bunch of guys walking around with chains, brass nuckles, knives, and guns in dark alley ways for a nightly hobby for their old pal the mutant cat. I think they are definitely an organized criminal gang that has the goal of squashing the turtles, but are professional criminals first and foremost. So yeah I guess these 3 turtles and Splinter "fight crime" but to me its a more personal thing and self defense. They aren't out to save the world or necessarily stop Old Hob and his criminal activities. To me they're searching for Raph while being hunted by Hob, so when he confronts them and attacks them, they're gonna fight back against Hob and is Thugs. But when Splinter didn't allow them to kill Hob that to me right there said that stopping him permanently isn't a priority. That gave me the vibe that they aren't out to stop his next scheme like the OT Turtles were for stopping Krang and Shredder's next plot. Hope all that ramblin makes sense :teek: :trazz:

[ToTheNines]

Now Old Hob has a gang of thugs, that I would assume do normal gang type activities, steal goods, rob convience stores, kill for money, and probably sell drugs.

I don't think so. From what I can tell, they're simply hired hands. Baxter is giving Hob the money to pay for their services, and is only using Hob so if something goes wrong, they wouldn't be able to trace anything back to Stockgen.

Unless Hob folded under questioning.

[Metropoliskid41]

Valid point, thats true, I assumed they probably did gang things on the side, I guess that might be really the only inconsistent characterization in the book. At least to me the thugs Splinter takes down and avoids in Issue #5 that are working for Hob, do not seem to be Mercenaries or professional hired guns, they seem more like street thugs to me. But maybe I'm interpretating them wrong. You definitely have a valid point. That being said that doesn't really affect how I broke down my view of the Leo, Don, Mikey, and Splinter not being traditional Crime Fighters, while Raph and Casey are.

[Logan]

They're crimefighters, but only incidentally. In some ways I think the turtles bear antiheroic traits, such as taking revenge and an "end justifies the means" mentality in some cases.

[junkboy]

Although i voted no, i can see them as crimefighters ( just sometimes tho )
But most of times their own problems or enemies are interrupting that i guess.
So their crime fight is generally a practice to face their bigger and badass foe. Which i like more.
I like vigilante stuff, but i would not want them to be that one dimensional way.

[ToTheNines]

That being said that doesn't really affect how I broke down my view of the Leo, Don, Mikey, and Splinter not being traditional Crime Fighters, while Raph and Casey are.

Right, I was just getting sidetracked lol.

[TobTurn]

No, in my opinion they're not crimefighters. Like people said, if they're just training on rooftops, or just go out for some fresh air and they see/hear someone being robbed or getting beat up, they'd help that person. But they don't go looking for it.