Rat King ('87 series)

[MikeandRaph87]

Rat King became arguably the TMNT's second greatest enemy at least in this show and was quite an interesting character. He was evil and mysterious and had a thing for April. While some think he is neutral I see him as evil. The problem is we never got to see see why he was the way he was or any origin. I would like to see speculations of what could have made Rat King the way he was. He was fun character every appearance and voiced by the voice talent Townsend Coleman! Thoughts? Lets try to be serious in coming up with possible reasons or origin.

[stormbringer]

Maybe he escaped from a mental hospital, or possibly he was an abused runaway who grew up on the streets, and later came to live in the sewers.

[oldmanwinters]

In our Fan Commentary for Were-Rats from Channel 6 (http://fancommentaries.thetechnodrome.com/), Jester and I hypothesized that Fred Wolf Rat King was failed science professor who was forced out of the academy for crackpot rat experiments. His career in ruins, he retreated to the sewers and the comfort of the only creatures who ever appreciated him. So fascinated by the sense of power he felt controlling rats, Rat King dedicated his life to finding a way to control humans in the same way. Once his dream had been realized, he would finally have vindication for his career and sweet revenge over the fools in the academy who shunned him.

Eh, we thought it made sense with the tone of the Old Toon. :tcool:

[MikeandRaph87]

Sounds like Jonathan Crane aka The Scarecrow(DC),but I can see where you two are coming from with Rat King. His intelligence is underrated and he can use people to his own advantage which Shredder and others learn. He is definitely a version of a character that deserves expanding on. It felt like he did not get fleshed out enough.


If the original animated series continued as it I wondered if Rat King would have broke out of prison and try to show The Shredder not to mess with him assuming The Shredder does return after "Divide and Conquer". It would have been fun to see that plot line followed up on and how it would be resolved seeing the need to cooperate or what.

[gobo]

Eh, we thought it makes sense with the tone of the Old Toon. :tcool:
Yes. Very OT-logical, OMW. ^_^

[pannoni1]

I would have LOVED to see a Rat King meets Baxter (fly) and his Mousers (as assisted by that alien computer), given that the Mousers were intended to target rats. In this situation, this may have angered the Rat King after the Mousers ate all of his rats. Baxter would then get captured/hostage, and then very well would have sided with the Rat King and perhaps, who knows, get turned into a giant rat for aggravating his plan after failing to destroy the turtles. And given that the Rat King has soda bombs, it shows that he was once a Thug or homeless before he changed his ego.

[MikeandRaph87]

Your take is interesting though I thought up something a little different. In my fan-fiction continuation I had Rat King wanting to show Shredder what he is capable of after "Wrath of Rat King" and team up with Baxter the Fly and Razhar and Tokka. Shredder in a previous script I did used Razhar and Tokka when he tells them he is their "father" and they want revenge on him like the other two. In the end Baxter and Z are out of the fight and so are Razhar and Tokka and the two villians have to work together. Rat King later was the field leader in a second grouping of rogues.

Its unfortuante the '87 series never gave reasoning for the Rat King's motives or any orgin. All we have so far is Tales of TMNT vol.2#35. :trazz:

[gobo]

I would have LOVED to see a Rat King meets Baxter
*sigh* I feel less creative now. :tgrumble:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Your take is interesting though I thought up something a little different. In my fan-fiction continuation I had Rat King wanting to show Shredder what he is capable of after "Wrath of Rat King" and team up with Baxter the Fly and Razhar and Tokka. Shredder in a previous script I did used Razhar and Tokka when he tells them he is their "father" and they want revenge on him like the other two. In the end Baxter and Z are out of the fight and so are Razhar and Tokka and the two villians have to work together. Rat King later was the field leader in a second grouping of rogues.

Its unfortuante the '87 series never gave reasoning for the Rat King's motives or any orgin. All we have so far is Tales of TMNT vol.2#35. :trazz:

Is your fan-fiction continuation published on the Internet?

[MikeandRaph87]

I am afraid not. Its something I did between 1998 and 2001 and I am currently reworking it. As I complete them I will post them here if you like. I did it merely for my own urge for TMNT during the dead time during winter '98 and winter '03 in the other media. This Spring I will upload a bunch of it if your truely interested. I tried to work an in-story explaination for the red sky, a way for The Shredder and eventually Krang to come back, April back at channel six , worked with stregthening continuity, and the last thing I did was an '87 series version City At War thing.

Going back to Rat King, I have read on this site oter places that Rat King is a neutral character. The only time he ever helped them was in "Return of The Fly" which saw him locate April for the TMNT after Baxter kidnapped her. I took it that Rat King helped them because he had a thing for April. He did think she had had pretty fur I mean hair.:lol: Also, the closest we ever got to seeing Rat King and Baxter Stockman together was the Rat King split seconds before Baxter Stockman showed up with Shredder and his two henchmutants.

[Metropoliskid41]

I always imagined that the Rat-King was somewhat of a parallel to Bruce Wayne but opposite. By that I mean he came from a poor family, with his parents killed and him orphaned he took to the streets and then the sewers and grew up having to fight for survival. He developed a kinship with the rats he shared the alleys and sewers with and eventually found he could communicate with them. He then sought to seek revenge on a world that had left him with nothing and fighting for his life. Kind of shows the different path 2 individuals can take on the same tragic incident, but how their social status changes the path they take type of thing.

[Hermano Dyvas]

I honestly think his mirage origin was whacky enough to fit in the OT.

[MikeandRaph87]

I honestly think his mirage origin was whacky enough to fit in the OT.

I don't know about that. A representative of a patheon for a specific animal and if he loses a fight has to give up the title. It doesn't fit. He is a crackpot genius and that is lives in the sewers and seems to take refuge in the only creatures that accept him. The question is what drove him to rule over rats and think they are the superior species? Rat King goes as far as thinking himself as one despite being a human which Scumbug even quesitons.

[MikeandRaph87]

How do you all think of The Slayer(Bishop's impefect clone) putting on rags and being Rat King? It never sat well with me having Shredder and Rat King who are two of the very few humans being something else. It was great to see the one alive appearance of Rat King in a cartoon however.

Also, of all the characters from 194-1989 why was The Rat King picked out to appear? Was it Mirage's idea or just the writer of that episode Buzz Dixon decide to use him?

[Xav]

I think it has to do with the fact, that the Rat King, had an action figure rather early on.

[MikeandRaph87]

I think it has to do with the fact, that the Rat King, had an action figure rather early on.

That was a result of the television show using the character I believe. It was out in 1989 the same as others who appeared for the first time on screen at that time.

[sdp]

I think rat king as a character became generic by the end of the show. His first appearance made him a match against the turtles, then his second appearance made him less of an antagonist and more of a wild card with no real alliance. But after that he became a generic antagonist, I mean he wasn't necessarily terrible but he was much more interesting in his first appearances.

[MikeandRaph87]

I think rat king as a character became generic by the end of the show. His first appearance made him a match against the turtles, then his second appearance made him less of an antagonist and more of a wild card with no real alliance. But after that he became a generic antagonist, I mean he wasn't necessarily terrible but he was much more interesting in his first appearances.

His alligence was to himself and the rats who he wants to rule and place above humanity. He did lead the turtles to where Baxter left April because he had a crush on April and then later he put Pinky McFingers against the turtles after Pinky betrayed their alliance. Rather than get his hands dirty he let one foe take out the other and he would deal with the remainning one when the time was right. He was defeinitely beefed up in Wrath of the Rat King. I would have liked to see him as the field leader of the rouges especially if we ever got to see a second go round of the villain group.

[bguy]

His alligence was to himself and the rats who he wants to rule and place above humanity. He did lead the turtles to where Baxter left April because he had a crush on April

The one thing I've never gotten about the Rat King was if he was attracted to April why did he try to have her mutated into a rat?

[MikeandRaph87]

The one thing I've never gotten about the Rat King was if he was attracted to April why did he try to have her mutated into a rat?

He originally kidnapped her because she was going to the public through media to speak against rats. In "Return of The Fly" he mentions she had pretty red hair but slipped and said at first fur but immediately corrected himself. April also had Bugman and Mutagen Man who liked her but that is for another thread if you would like to create it. Welcome aboard I see that your "new" yet your registration says something else. Hope you properly introduce yourself.

[Xav]

That was a result of the television show using the character I believe. It was out in 1989 the same as others who appeared for the first time on screen at that time. Wasn't the whole point of the TV show, to advertise the toys though?

[MikeandRaph87]

Wasn't the whole point of the TV show, to advertise the toys though?

Yes, though I was under the impression the episodes aired before the second wave of toys were released opposed to Playmates made the Rat King toy and then made an episode about him. In some cases toys were made first but I thought the episodes came first here. I was only two at the time so I of course don't know.

One thing that struck me odd was that Rat King struck an alligence with Leatherhead after they tried to kill each other previously.

[Xav]

Yeah, that always happens, characters set aside their differences to face a common enemy. Still it's not as bad as the 4Kids toon, which had Hun and Baxter working together.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yeah, that always happens, characters set aside their differences to face a common enemy.

Case of the Killer Pizzas, Splinter No More

[cammy85]

He originally kidnapped her because she was going to the public through media to speak against rats. In "Return of The Fly" he mentions she had pretty red hair but slipped and said at first fur but immediately corrected himself. April also had Bugman and Mutagen Man who liked her but that is for another thread if you would like to create it. Welcome aboard I see that your "new" yet your registration says something else. Hope you properly introduce yourself.

No, he means in "Were-Rats From Channel Six" when the mutated Irma kidnapped her and the Rat King left her to be mutated while they left to get cheese at the airport.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, that always happens, characters set aside their differences to face a common enemy. Still it's not as bad as the 4Kids toon, which had Hun and Baxter working together.

Baxter's appearance in "Hacking Stockman" seemed odd. Why would he work for hire for Hun someone he hates and is responsible for his um dismantling. We also already know that Baxter gets a happy ending and continued to work as Bishop's aid for about fifty years not taking time off to work with Hun of all people.

I see,Cammy85. We were talking about April and then went to Irma so I got confused. I don't think Rat King showed any interest in her but Irma is as desperate as they come. I remember her getting upset because Rat King grabbed April instead not even giving her attention enough to be his captive in "Enter: The Rat King" yet she was his captive twice later.

In "Were-rats From Channel Six" we see at the end that the flute triggered mutation may not be over. That tease was unneccessary as it would not be followed up on. The same happened with Napoleon Bonafrog with that beastial ray in "Napoleon Bonafrog:Collossus of The Swamps".

[HotJuicyBurgers]

The first appearance of the Rat King is in Tales of the Teenage mutant ninja turtles issue 4 right?

[MikeandRaph87]

The first appearance of the Rat King is in Tales of the Teenage mutant ninja turtles issue 4 right?

Correct. Leatherhead debuted two issues later. This is Rat King's only alive appearance. He died as a result of his confrontation with the Ninja Turtles and Casey Jones and appeared about 3 more storylines worth as a ghost. This character has had so much wasted potential yet to be fully realized.

[Keldor1578]

How do you all think of The Slayer(Bishop's impefect clone) putting on rags and being Rat King? It never sat well with me having Shredder and Rat King who are two of the very few humans being something else. It was great to see the one alive appearance of Rat King in a cartoon however.

The Rat King was still human unlike the shredder in the 4kids cartoon.

[MikeandRaph87]

The Rat king was still human unlike the shredder in the 4kids cartoon.

An imperfect clone is not a human but a superhuman being beyond a mere mortal. Its like saying that the current version of Superboy is Kryptonian when he is just a clone. A sentient being with no soul.

Will Rat King get a proper origin in Nick's cartoon assuming he shows up?

[Keldor1578]

An imperfect clone is not a human but a superhuman being beyond a mere mortal. Its like saying that the current version of Superboy is Kryptonian when he is just a clone. A sentient being with no soul.

Will Rat King get a proper origin in Nick's cartoon assuming he shows up?

The Rat king is the clone of Bishop who human, Yes Superboy is part Kryptonian/human is the clone of superman/Lex Luthur.

[TurtleTitan97]

Will Rat King get a proper origin in Nick's cartoon assuming he shows up?

Him and Leatherhead were confirmed to appear in the show. Other than that, not much we know. I agree, I hope Nick gives him a good origin story.

[Keldor1578]

Him and Leatherhead were confirmed to appear in the show. Other than that, not much we know. I agree, I hope Nick gives him a good origin story.

I hope that Rat King get the 4kids cartoon origin again.

[Keldor1578]

In our Fan Commentary for Were-Rats from Channel 6 (http://fancommentaries.thetechnodrome.com/), Jester and I hypothesized that Fred Wolf Rat King was failed science professor who was forced out of the academy for crackpot rat experiments. His career in ruins, he retreated to the sewers and the comfort of the only creatures who ever appreciated him. So fascinated by the sense of power he felt controlling rats, Rat King dedicated his life to finding a way to control humans in the same way. Once his dream had been realized, he would finally have vindication for his career and sweet revenge over the fools in the academy who shunned him.

Eh, we thought it made sense with the tone of the Old Toon. :tcool:

That would'ld been a good origin for the Rat King in the Fred Wolf cartoon.

[Zage]

I like the episode where him & Leatherhead "team up".

[cammy85]

Really silly how they were at each others' throats the first time, then chums the second (until the end), then Rat King's "You're sick, Leatherhead. You know that?" line from "Night of the Rogues".

[MikeandRaph87]

Really silly how they were at each others' throats the first time, then chums the second (until the end), then Rat King's "You're sick, Leatherhead. You know that?" line from "Night of the Rogues".

I think they realized after fighting with each other they were both defeated pretty bad by their mutual enemy when Leatherhead likely returned with a truce. He likely thought if he wants revenge against the Turtle he needed to look to someone else wanting payback and who better than Rat King? He is easier to deal with than Shredder and gang.

[TMNTInsighter]

He's also a psychopath. At least according to WatchMojo. I recently saw that they had him #9 in terms of all-time cartoon psychopaths. Just sayin'.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Rat King became arguably the TMNT's second greatest enemy at least in this show and was quite an interesting character. He was evil and mysterious and had a thing for April. While some think he is neutral I see him as evil. The problem is we never got to see see why he was the way he was or any origin. I would like to see speculations of what could have made Rat King the way he was. He was fun character every appearance and voiced by the voice talent Townsend Coleman! Thoughts? Lets try to be serious in coming up with possible reasons or origin.

Even though the Fred Wolf Rat King never had his origins explained unlike his other versions, he was always my favourite version. Unfortunately, both the 2k3 and Nick versions felt underwhelming for me.

Watching him interact with others felt like a charm for me and I think townsend did a great job with him. I epsecially liked how this version often appeared alongside leatherhead and was funny yet threatening at the same time.

[TMNTInsighter]

Even though the Fred Wolf Rat King never had his origins explained unlike his other versions, he was always my favourite version. Unfortunately, both the 2k3 and Nick versions felt underwhelming for me.

.....

The 2003 version never had a chance! He came on WAY too late!
Nickelodeon's version though? C'mon, that's not fair! Unless you're counting the fact that we may never see him again, OK I can get where you're coming from. Still, Jeffry Combs is reason enough not to hate him.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The 2003 version never had a chance! He came on WAY too late!
Nickelodeon's version though? C'mon, that's not fair! Unless you're counting the fact that we may never see him again, OK I can get where you're coming from. Still, Jeffry Combs is reason enough not to hate him.

I don't hate any of the other rat kings. I just prefer the 80s version by a long shot.

[MikeandRaph87]

I don't hate any of the other rat kings. I just prefer the 80s version by a long shot.

Ditto! The 4Kids Rat King was not Rat King, yes he had Mirage's story, but he was just Bishop's clone wrapped in bandages. That was a major let down. The Nicktoon one has the powers and story of the 1987 cartoon version, but he looks like The Phantom of The Opera not The Rat King! Rat King was defined in the 1987 cartoon and has not had the matching look and storyline since. The only thing lacking in the 1987 cartoon was an origin like a rejected college professor or something related to that.

[TMNTInsighter]

He looked a lot more like Jeffrey Combs's Scarecrow in The New Batman Adventures to me.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Ditto! The 4Kids Rat King was not Rat King, yes he had Mirage's story, but he was just Bishop's clone wrapped in bandages. That was a major let down. The Nicktoon one has the powers and story of the 1987 cartoon version, but he looks like The Phantom of The Opera not The Rat King! Rat King was defined in the 1987 cartoon and has not had the matching look and storyline since. The only thing lacking in the 1987 cartoon was an origin like a rejected college professor or something related to that.

I think that having an origin would've been nice and added more depth to his character, but it works the other way around too by not explaining his backstory. It makes him alot more mysterious and interesting for me. Either way, I think the 80s Rat King is just pure awesomeness. I did like the Nick Rat King too, just not as much.

[shuriken]

Speculation is always fun especially with a mysterious character like the Rat King. I always thought he was a scientists that was shunned by his comrades and slowly went mad.