Shredder = Old Hob?

[Powder]

SPOILERS AHEAD! If you've not read #5 yet, close the tab.

Old Hob & The Shredder.
Seems I'm the only one who made a connection between the two as I made mention of it in #5's thread & nobody discussed it with me. We know that Hob & Splinters rivalry is a "Centuries old battle" (Or whatever the quote was- I'm paraphrasing.) but we don't exactly know why. Many assumed it was simply the war between cat & mouse being referenced, others put speculation aside as to see what would become of it.

Now, we know that the turtles & Splinter are reincarnations of Hamato Yoshi & his four sons, given a new life in which to avenge the deaths of their loved ones and selves at the hand of Saki & his ninja. That being said, we know that reincarnation is a very real thing in their universe, so obviously they're probably not the only ones in the whole world to have been born again. Yoshi is now Splinter, a martial artist, father to four sons, & fella with a fuzzy face like before. Very much the same person as he was in his past life, no? Well Saki & Hob are quite alike. Both martial artists who control a group of men who would kill at their behest, rival Splinter, & Saki has a large scar over his eye whereas Hob is missing his. Hob, being a cat, has sharp claws as a weapon. Shredder of course, also was no stranger to sharp claws. All of their deaths happened centuries ago. Certainly a "Centuries old battle", no?

In short Shredder & Hob have far too much in common for it to be coincidence.
-Martial artists
-Claws
-Injured eye
-Leader of a clan/gang
-Opposites to Splinter (Good/Evil-Cat/Mouse)

What do you think? Likely enough? If this turns out to be true, will you like it, be surprised by it, hate it? Share your thoughts.

I personally think this whole thing is painfully obvious, and as such pretty disappointing/lame. Seems far too... I dunno, predictable & generic.
Oh ho! Cat & mouse! Of course Shredder is his arch nemesis, cats hate rats! :trolleye: Plus the idea of a cat donning the Shredder gear seems incredibly goofy, even for the TMNT.

[Toby Barrett]

Why would Oroku Saki take on the nickname Old Hob?

Old Hob is a C List, thuggish, street brawler, not a martial artist ninja master.

I don't see it.

[Powder]

Why would Hamato Yoshi take on the nickname Splinter? It was given to him. Perhaps the same case for Hob. Time will tell.
Besides, I never said he was a ninja master but he's held his own well enough.

[Toby Barrett]

Yoshi seemed a very humble man, and to keep in hiding, as he said in issue 3, he took on the name Splinter.

If Saki was Old Hob, I believe he'd be far to proud to take on a nickname. And I don't really see him holding his own very well in the few fights we've seen him in.

[Powder]

True, but he could've told his sons his real name. I suppose he wanted to wait until he gave them the whole backstory, though.
For the sake of speculation, I'll be reaching quite a bit to give reason behind your second comments.
Perhaps Hob doesn't quite have the same recall that Splinter does, for whatever reason. We know he's a pretty beat up alley cat, he may of lost some of his memory in getting clipped by a car or something. He also could've taken on a nickname for the very same reason Splinter did. To keep things under wraps until the real confrontation came into focus. Regarding his strength, we know that he's linking up with Baxter in the next issue, a scientist experimenting with all sorts of serums to improve strength, intelligence and so forth. Maybe his technology will make Hob a far more competent fighter, and/or bring up the suppressed memories of his past life.

I suppose you could rule out the whole thing considering we've seen what seem to be members of the foot already, but again, it's just speculation. As likely as it is to me I can't be 100%, I'm just stringing together the commonalities I find.

[Slap-Happy]

If Saki was Hob, wouldn't he use his skills against the turtles? I would think that Saki wouldn't allow those shuriken to hit him in issue 4.

[Powder]

If Saki was Hob, wouldn't he use his skills against the turtles? I would think that Saki wouldn't allow those shuriken to hit him in issue 4.

Regarding his strength, we know that he's linking up with Baxter in the next issue, a scientist experimenting with all sorts of serums to improve strength, intelligence and so forth. Maybe his technology will make Hob a far more competent fighter, and/or bring up the suppressed memories of his past life.

You started posting before mine showed up.

[Slap-Happy]

Hmm. Could the Shredder already exist in the series? Could the "Master" mentioned at the end of Raphael be Shredder or Krang?

But I really don't see who he could be. Is this long time feud of Hob's and Splinters about how Hob tried to take the turtles, or about Saki killing his boys?

[Powder]

Sure seems implied, what with the bladed shadow at the end of Raphael. But still, could be Hob. In all that armor & secrecy maybe no one has ever seen his real form. He could just be playing dumb, so to speak, to the turtle gang. Haha, wow, I really am reaching, eh? Fun to do so, I gotta admit.

[Slap-Happy]

I bet we'll get a traditional Shredder in the series.

If Hob is Saki, maybe he puts his mind in a human body or something. I don't know.

[Candy Kappa]

Maybe Saki/Hob got gains his memory slower then Splinter?

I really don't hope for more reincarnated mutants

[marcelangelo]

well, there is opportunity in it and as you listed there would be clues suggestion that we think in that direction but I for one really hope that's not going to be the case here...to me hob was put into this by accident more or less...when the turtles and splinter landed in the alley, I assume he regarded it as his teritory, he snatched one of them ans then splinter attacked him to rescue his son from being eaten....then the blood got mixed a little with splinter eyegnawing action and they all were exposed to the mutagen....
I hope hob is now hired to retrieve them and has his own motives for being mad at them...his own story...would work better for me than to have him be the shredder...

[ToTheNines]

What Splinter said in #1 was "and with the bittersweet experience of centuries". So I'm pretty sure he was just referring to himself, not the battle between the two.

[Powder]

What Splinter said in #1 was "and with the bittersweet experience of centuries". So I'm pretty sure he was just referring to himself, not the battle between the two.

Ah, OK. Disregard that, then.

But another in favor of it, by snatching Raph he was once again taking a son from Splinter. :tlol:

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Ah, OK. Disregard that, then.

But another in favor of it, by snatching Raph he was once again taking a son from Splinter. :tlol:

I have to admit, the theory is interesting, but unlikely. Ironically, Hob to me seems to have more in common with the Rat King, who wasn't really on anyone's side unless there was something in it for him in the MWS cartoon.

I think more likely than not, Hob will either become an ally to the Shredder or an enemy, but more likely an enemy considering he is working for General Krang and Stockman, who are Saki's competitors. It seems that for every question answered, two more pop up.

Tom-- if you're reading this-- is it too late to have a letter printed in #6?

[Andrew NDB]

You mean revealing Oroku Saki in the present as some kind of an Archie TMNT-esque Chien Khan? I really, really, really don't see this happening. If it does, though (and I'm 99% sure it won't)... yeah... that would kind of renege on Tom's promise of no silliness.

If Old Hob is a reincarnation of any baddies from Feudal Japan, it won't be Saki (though I'd forgotten the comment Splinter made to him already... I'm really hoping there's not going to be some kind of revolving door of "Oh, you're so and so I also knew from Feudal Japan, also reincarnated in 2010s New York City"). Besides, in one story arc we already see Old Hob getting his ass kicked by the Turtles twice -- wouldn't be much of a Saki. I mean, yeah, he could conceivably get the psychotropic drug and go, "Oh yeah, I forgot, I'm a badass named Oroku Saki from 400 years ago, how could I forget that" and be a lot more versed in martial arts, but that wouldn't really be the kind of introduction you'd want to make for him if so.

[Hermano Dyvas]

I sure hope this won't be the case. I'd prefer Ch'rell Shredder over this. I'd prefer Human shredder over all though I am worried about how they will handle his survival from Feudal Japan into present time. Ch'rell would make the most sense here at least...

I just had a thought.
What if Old Hob is the reincarnation of Oroku Saki BUT after the original Saki died Ch'rell took over his identity, kinda like he did in 2K3?

[Donnie]

Although it seems highly unlikely, I must say Powder I thought the same exact thing after #5.

[ToTheNines]

The more I think about it, I suppose it is possible. I guess what Tom is saying (not necessarily as his own beliefs, but for the purpose of this story) is that all or many animals are reincarnated humans, but don't know it. These particular animals in question happened to be juiced up on super-solider serum, so they do have some memory.

Given the hints that this was all destined to happen, Hob could be Splinter's ancient enemy. I would kinda hope not, but it would be cool to see one of them actually kill Hob since we were teased with that in #4. And I'd rather them not go all Mirage on us and kill Shredder off super-early.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I'm with you Powder. As soon as I finished issue 5 I thought the same thing. It would be quite a change for the character that is sure. But it seems to obvious.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

If Old Hob is Shredder and he knew it then he would have never used the name Old Hob. Maybe Old Hob if he was Shredder in he previous life he dont remeber it yet. But he might be just a mutant cat that has nothing to do with Shredder

[Metropoliskid41]

I think that the Old Hob as Shredder may be an interesting take but I really hope that's not the case. To me that would undercut the Turtles & Splinter being re-incarnated. I believe the time was right for them to be re-incarnated to defeat their old enemy Saki. I think that would be cheapened if Saki was dead and re-incarnated as Old Hob just so they could have their chance at settling the score. But that may just be me. Saki was a master warrior and ninja, and so far we've just seen Old Hob as the classic street tough bruiser, kind of like Marv from Sin City. That would be a huge change from a master ninja to street wise Street Thug.

And the fact that we saw a Ninja looking character with the Shredder shadow at the end of Raph #5 to me says that they are definitely different characters, as that was imo clearly not Old Hob.

[Powder]

Honestly I'm a little concerned that Tom hasn't popped into this thread.

[Donnie]

Honestly I'm a little concerned that Tom hasn't popped into this thread.

True, but I think he likes to keep us speculating. I mean, could Old Hob really be Shredder when Raphael (an untrained Raphael at that) almost beat him to a pulp?

[AcidBurn30]

ok your way off.... go read #3..You'll see Shredder drop the bag of ooze with the turtles inside..Splinter as a rat went after shredder eyes..was also thrown down to the grown to the broken ooze..OLD HOBS as a cat walked on the ooze and kidnap raphael..AS SPLINTER jumps to save him, he went for Old hobs eyes..Old hobs runs off.. Go read Raphael...WITH BEBOP and ROCKSTADY you have to read the end of the comic book because when Shredder walks into the room, you'll see his shadow behind him wearing his armor...so no Old hobs is not Shredder and splinter is a rat to begin with..a lab rat before shredder tried to kill April..

[Andrew NDB]

The longer I look at this thread the longer I wonder if Powder is right.

I'm sure we're pretty much playing right in the palm of Tom's hand, though... that trickster.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

I just had a thought.
What if Old Hob is the reincarnation of Oroku Saki BUT after the original Saki died Ch'rell took over his identity, kinda like he did in 2K3?

I think I would LOVE this...

[CyberCubed]

I can't see him being Shredder. How many characters now have scars on their eyes?

Personally I like the idea of that one Foot Soldier who Splinter clawed his eye out during the assault on April to be Shredder.

[Metropoliskid41]

I agree that would be a nice nod to the past and more fitting in my opinion. I'd like to see a "rise of the Shredder" issue, maybe set up like issue #5 with flashbacks to feudal Japan along side present day as we see him rise thru the ranks in both situations. I wouldn't mind a Shredder micro series book.

[Cowabunga Carl]

As much as I'd like to see the series not make Hob into Saki, it seems the obvious direction to go. Could the teaser page we were shown with Baxter locking Hob in is when Saki's memories will trigger and we will see him go from street thug to bad as ninja master?

[Powder]

Could the teaser page we were shown with Baxter locking Hob in is when Saki's memories will trigger and we will see him go from street thug to bad as ninja master?

I was thinking that too.

Or of course it could the disintegrator unit in which Baxter is predictably turned into a fly.

[Matches Malone]

My guess is that Baxter asks Old Hob to allow him to demonstrate his new weapon and in typical dramatic fashion, locks the door behind him to unleash the mousers since we know they're coming up in this next story arc.

[Andrew NDB]

This thread should be merged with the other one.

[CyberCubed]

It's possible there are two Shredder's. The ancient Oroku Saki from the past and a current Oroku Saki who is the descendent.

If the old Oroku Saki is still alive he's either immortal or not human.

[Powder]

This thread should be merged with the other one.

What "other one"? I'm the only one who made a Shredder/Old Hob thread...

[Cowabunga Carl]

I think he is talking about the other thread talking about Saki

This one:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=35976

[Powder]

Well to speak like an immature kid, mine was first, mine is better, mine makes sense, his doesn't. SO MEH!

[stormbringer]

It's possible there are two Shredder's. The ancient Oroku Saki from the past and a current Oroku Saki who is the descendent.

If the old Oroku Saki is still alive he's either immortal or not human.

if the old Oroku Saki's immortal, I wonder if he merged with a Tengu demon like in the 2k3 series.

[Cowabunga Carl]

It's okay Powder out of the options of the two I'd have to lean towards yours. As much as I don't want Hobs to be Shredder I'd be more okay with that then another talking brain/utrom warlord in the comics.

[Metropoliskid41]

I wonder what the timeline is for getting into the Shredder mythos and getting some answers. I don't want them to rush it, its obvious the Turtles will have their hands full with Stockman & the mousers the next 3 issues. I just wonder if we'll still be having debates on this 6 months from now or if we'll have a clearer view of Hob, the foot clan, Krang, and Saki.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I could see Shredder showing up in the Leo micro. It would be a fitting homage.

[CyberCubed]

We've seen Feudal Shredder, I hope modern Shredder looks similar to Mirage Shredder.

[Donnie]

I could see Shredder showing up in the Leo micro. It would be a fitting homage.

I can see this happening. That would be cool!

[Cowabunga Carl]

It would be the perfect time to deal with Saki showing up. Either way though I just don't want to wait another 6 months with really not knowing anything about Shredder.

[Plasticplayhouse]

i see some similarities, but i dont sense a true connection. old hob, while a cool and interesting character, so far seems too weak to be the shredder. to me he seems more of a C (maybe B) level crime lord than an A level as shreader should be.

[Cowabunga Carl]

But like the Turtles he could be having trouble remembering his past life. If they are going to go that route I think when Baxter locks him up we will see it surfes. If not then they aren't going the way it seems they are. I don't want Hob to be Shredder. So much potential to build a new and unique character.

[Donnie]

But like the Turtles he could be having trouble remembering his past life. If they are going to go that route I think when Baxter locks him up we will see it surfes. If not then they aren't going the way it seems they are. I don't want Hob to be Shredder. So much potential to build a new and unique character.

Truth...plus, I really like Saki human. I'd rather him Hob than Ch'rell, but really both are bad cop-outs to a human Saki.

[Plasticplayhouse]

I'd rather him Hob than Ch'rell, but really both are bad cop-outs to a human Saki.

uuug, yes. i never like the Ch'rell character. mashing up two very important characters in the tmnt verse is a bad thing. the only thing worse imo would have been a Casey/April mash up.

[Metropoliskid41]

Capril? Apesy? :trazz:

[TobTurn]

uuug, yes. i never like the Ch'rell character. mashing up two very important characters in the tmnt verse is a bad thing. the only thing worse imo would have been a Casey/April mash up.

How was having Ch'rell as Shredder a mashup? If you're thinking about a Shredder/Krang mash up you're mistaking, cause that was not the case.

[Andrew NDB]

It's true. Ch'rell himself was already the osmosis of a mash-up of Shredder and Krang... so mashing Ch'rell will Krang can't be considered taboo.

[TobTurn]

It's true. Ch'rell himself was already the osmosis of a mash-up of Shredder and Krang... so mashing Ch'rell will Krang can't be considered taboo.

It wasn't a mash up. It may seem like it, but it wasn't. Yes, he's an alien just like Krang. But he's an Utrom, Krang wasn't. Even though it may look like a mash up, it wasn't intented or 'canon '. The fandom made it up.

[Andrew NDB]

It wasn't a mash up. It may seem like it, but it wasn't. Yes, he's an alien just like Krang. But he's an Utrom, Krang wasn't. Even though it may look like a mash up, it wasn't intented or 'canon '. The fandom made it up.

Fox wanted Krang, Peter gave'em a compromise. Again, they're both brain-like exiled, intergalactic alien warlords with a penchant for conquering. It's not a coincidence.

[Powder]

To say that Chr'ell wasn't an amalgamation of Krang & Shredder is straight up retarded.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Agreed-- but Ch'rell is a mash-up between Mirage Shredder and Archie Krang.

I personally would not mind seeing Hob turn out to be Oroku Saki (or vice versa). That would explain his affinity to mutant men in the Raphael micro.

[pihb]

My only real question would be who the foot clan master is while Hob is a beat up alley cat in issue 1?

[AquaParade]

To say that Chr'ell wasn't an amalgamation of Krang & Shredder is straight up retarded.

I think Andrew beat you to that with a lot more etiquette and substance :lol:

[Keldor1578]

Fox wanted Krang, Peter gave'em a compromise. Again, they're both brain-like exiled, intergalactic alien warlords with a penchant for conquering. It's not a coincidence.

Wrong, It was Laird's idea to make Oroku Saki into an utrom in the 4Kids cartoon. Laird wanted to ties the Shredder with the turtles utrom origin.

[Powder]

He never said otherwise, you dolt.

[Metropoliskid41]

Wrong, It was Laird's idea to make Oroku Saki into an utrom in the 4Kids cartoon. Laird wanted to ties the Shredder with the turtles utrom origin.

Why was this thread revived 32 days later for that comment? No one ever contested Laird's involvement in Utrom Shredder. :trolleye:

All Andrew said was Fox wanted Krang and Laird said no you can have Utrom Shredder instead.

[Keldor1578]

He never said otherwise, you dolt.

What the hell you problem jerk ,There is no need to insult me.

[TurtleMaster4]

didn't get to read these issues, but read the reviews, and it seems there is a human ninja with a scar on his face, and he beats up leo, now he isn't in the shredder costume, but i have a feeling he will be. he was in the Raph and Leo micro series