IDW TMNT Origin

[Utromshredderhater]

so how does everybody like it so far?

[CyberCubed]

The only thing I don't like is the quick mutation and no training for 15 years, but other than that I am fine with everything else.

[azrael]

Didnt the mirage verse have quick mutation its just the turtles were younger then?

[Donnie]

Didnt the mirage verse have quick mutation its just the turtles were younger then?

It looks like it was a fast mutation but I don't think a specific timeframe is ever given, we only know that they had been growing and training for 15 years by the time we see them in #1.

I really like the origin thus far, but this would be a small gripe I have with it. I favor the 15 years in training bit...makes them more threatening, in my opinion.

[Matches Malone]

It looks like it was a fast mutation but I don't think a specific timeframe is ever given, we only know that they had been growing and training for 15 years by the time we see them in #1.

I really like the origin thus far, but this would be a small gripe I have with it. I favor the 15 years in training bit...makes them more threatening, in my opinion.

Thought everything was an improvement from Mirage until #5. I like bits of it a lot like the Splinter/Shredder rivalry spanning centuries back and the reincarnation works too, but still wish the turtles were his adopted sons to show a bond stronger than blood. Also, to keep the mutant aspect intact and not just be humans trapped in turtle bodies. Overall, very happy and probably the best origin tale to date.

[azrael]

It looks like it was a fast mutation but I don't think a specific timeframe is ever given, we only know that they had been growing and training for 15 years by the time we see them in #1.

I really like the origin thus far, but this would be a small gripe I have with it. I favor the 15 years in training bit...makes them more threatening, in my opinion.

Not sure if I am remembering the movie on this but wasnt it said baby turtles?

Which is more threatening a 15 year span of training or a centuries plus of warrior training?

[MikeandRaph87]

Thought everything was an improvement from Mirage until #5. I like bits of it a lot like the Splinter/Shredder rivalry spanning centuries back and the reincarnation works too, but still wish the turtles were his adopted sons to show a bond stronger than blood. Also, to keep the mutant aspect intact and not just be humans trapped in turtle bodies. Overall, very happy and probably the best origin tale to date.

That is my gripe. Its like the creative team was trying to fix it so Splinter could be a rat while neccessarily Yoshi's pet and Hamto Yoshi himself. It should be one or the other. The whole reincarnated sons bothers be because the turtles were always Splinter's adoptive sons opposed to his own flesh and blood. The family bond they had was always special for that reason whether the TMNT were actual brothers opposed to step or not but the fact Splinter was father figure and not father.

[Candy Kappa]

It's okay, but I'll stay reserved until we see more issues and more interaction between the turtles, splinter and shredder.

But it would be an awesome twist of the turtle ain't Splinter's reincarnated sons after all

[Toby Barrett]

I'm perfectly fine with it. It's no harder to swallow than a rat learning ninjitzu by watching in his cage.

[Matches Malone]

I'm perfectly fine with it. It's no harder to swallow than a rat learning ninjitzu by watching in his cage.

If anything, I think this origin is more believable than Mirage's, especially with all the StockGen setup. My gripes are mostly with story choices which aren't my preferences, but that's just an opinion thing.

[Coola Yagami]

I still didn't like the Mirage version... so Splinter saw a few kicks and punches... that's a LONG WAY from teaching the turtles all the awesome moves they know. By that logic, they'd only learn the few kicks and punches that rat-splinter saw from the cage, and not become full-blown ninja masters.

[Powder]

No qualms yet. I think the reincarnation thing is pretty cool, and I love all things feudal Japan.

[Metropoliskid41]

So far I've really loved it, its a new fresh take on the turtles so I enjoy the new territory and origin that its exploring. It is definitely its own unique take on it, but I really enjoy the nice nods to past eras that they put in there, even though they don't have to. Can't wait to see what the future holds for some of the mythos!

[Andrew NDB]

I don't agree with every aspect of it, but I think it's pretty creative.

[Samhain]

I love it. I'm glad they are giving us something new instead of the same old stuff.

[CyberCubed]

I love it. I'm glad they are giving us something new instead of the same old stuff.

Its still almost the same. The biggest twist is probably Raphael not growing up with his brothers.

Everything else is a combination of Mirage/Fred Wolf/4kids origins. Especially if the Oroku Saki in feudal Japan is the same one in the present day.

[Donnie]

Its still almost the same. The biggest twist is probably Raphael not growing up with his brothers.

Everything else is a combination of Mirage/Fred Wolf/4kids origins. Especially if the Oroku Saki in feudal Japan is the same one in the present day.

How is it almost the same when you just said it's a combo of Mirage/FW/4kids? It's a totally different origin take.

[CyberCubed]

How is it almost the same when you just said it's a combo of Mirage/FW/4kids? It's a totally different origin take.

Fast mutation with no childhood = original cartoon
Splinter and Hamato Yoshi being almost the same person = original cartoon
Feudal Japan setting with Oroku Saki = 4kids series
Being owned by Chet = Mirage


The new stuff:

Raph not growing up with his brothers
Turtles not being in a pet store, but in Stockgen
April naming the Turtles
Reincarnation

[Matches Malone]

Fast mutation with no childhood = original cartoon
Splinter and Hamato Yoshi being almost the same person = original cartoon
Feudal Japan setting with Oroku Saki = 4kids series
Being owned by Chet = Mirage


The new stuff:

Raph not growing up with his brothers
Turtles not being in a pet store, but in Stockgen
April naming the Turtles
Reincarnation

I would argue that the new elements you listed are integral and extremely significant to the new origin story. Also, the Foot played a part in the origin which is also new.

[Metropoliskid41]

I couldn't sleep last night so I popped in the original movie last night and watched it. Man that movie never gets old. I think movie Shredder is probably my favorite incarnation. One thing I would really like to see IDW replicate or pull into their comic once we get to see more on Shredder is the "Induction into the Foot Clan" scene. I think that was such a powerful and awesome scene. I think it'd be cool to see Hamato Yoshi and Oraku Saki get inducted together via a flashback scene, and then see it again with Shredder doing the crowning in present day. That was just such an awesome scene, I would really like to see them pull that into the comic, and it'd be a really nice nod to the movie.

[Donnie]

I would really like to see them pull that into the comic, and it'd be a really nice nod to the movie.

Nothing beats the first movie. :D I wouldn't mind if IDW took almost all of the cues from it!

[Metropoliskid41]

Agreed, it was pretty much perfect. The only way it coulda been better is if they went with a hotter actress for April :trazz:

[Donnie]

Agreed, it was pretty much perfect. The only way it coulda been better is if they went with a hotter actress for April :trazz:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1845/escanear0029p.jpg

I don't know dude...she's pretty darn good looking in my book!

(Thanks to Luzmagica for that image!)

[Metropoliskid41]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one :trazz: I'm not saying she's hideous, but she coulda been hotter in my book.

[CyberCubed]

They replaced her with a hotter April in the second movie.

I liked how first movie April was down to earth rather than being some type of supermodel.

[Coola Yagami]

I always found Paige to be 'cuter' than Judith. I don't know... I guess Judith's attitude and general presentation (especially with the black skirt) made her seem more 'hot' and 'sexy'... while Paige's performance made her seem more cute and adorable. Paige wasn't given much 'attitude' scenes to do in the sequels.... or I don't know... can't put my finger on it...

[Andrew NDB]

and then see it again with Shredder doing the crowning in present day. That was just such an awesome scene, I would really like to see them pull that into the comic, and it'd be a really nice nod to the movie.

Nothing beats the first movie. :D I wouldn't mind if IDW took almost all of the cues from it!

Oh god, please no. Take bits from the "crowning" if you must, but no Darth Shredder or Shredder's Halfway House for Troubled Kids.

[Kendamu]

As long as it's not the Mega Armor Shredder 5,000 design from the 4Kids stuff that started making its way into the Mirage comics at the end. I've always preferred a more basic looking Shredder.

[Andrew NDB]

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1845/escanear0029p.jpg

Personally, I have found Judith Hoag to be an acquired taste. When I was a kid I didn't find her attractive at all and her "look" in the movie a little abrasive to my little eyes. When Paige Turco came around in TMNT II and III I found her a little more attractive, but was more pissed off that the original April was needlessly recast and never quite got past that.

Now I look back at Judith in that first movie and find her quite attractive and spirited. I don't know that I'd do a double-take if I saw her walking down the street (OK, maybe I'd check out her ass a moment) but she seems like a pretty good catch.

[Donnie]

Now I look back at Judith in that first movie and find her quite attractive and spirited. I don't know that I'd do a double-take if I saw her walking down the street (OK, maybe I'd check out her ass a moment) but she seems like a pretty good catch.

Totally! I would say she is an acquired taste, but it helps matters for me that her "all-natural" look is something I've always been attracted to.

[CyberCubed]

If we're speaking purely of what the actress looked like at the time, she's pretty average looking. But that's good, I like the fact that April looked down to earth and not what you'd see in the superhero movies of today where all the female characters are supermodels.

[Andrew NDB]

That's her whole charm. She's the cute girl next door.

[Metropoliskid41]

Oh god, please no. Take bits from the "crowning" if you must, but no Darth Shredder or Shredder's Halfway House for Troubled Kids.

I didn't mean the halfway house or Darth Shredder, just the characterization and the crowning moment. I really think a flashback to Yoshi and Saki getting crowned in the same ceremony and then a present day Foot crowning could be a really cool and powerful scene. Thats something that would be perfect for a Shredder or Splinter micro series issue if they decide to do one.

[MikeandRaph87]

I thought Mirage fans would have liked the nice blend. I don't see the Darth Shredder thing but Shredder using the youth's need for an understanding family.

I always liked Piage Turco better. I thought she looked better and was a better actor. Its unfortunate that neither became A-listers.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought Mirage fans would have liked the nice blend.

Of what -- ass with feet?

[1984TMNT]

Nothing beats the first movie. :D I wouldn't mind if IDW took almost all of the cues from it!

I agree! Other than a few aspects of the original movie (mostly the "Foot" being a bunch of loser kids that need a halfway house and are trained in becoming ninjas), It's my favorite TMNT universe. Say what you want about animatronic suits - I feel like they still look great and amazingly real, even by today's standards. They got worse and worse from the 2nd to 3rd movies, so I'm speaking only of those used in the 1st movie.

I would love to see the new movie take just about every cue from the first and continue in that same vein.

[Metropoliskid41]

I thought that some of the suits, especially Donatellos, looked better in Secret of the Ooze but maybe that's just my personal preference. I also like his voice better in #2 over Feldman's in #1 but maybe I'm alone in that sentiment as well.

[1984TMNT]

I thought that some of the suits, especially Donatellos, looked better in Secret of the Ooze but maybe that's just my personal preference. I also like his voice better in #2 over Feldman's in #1 but maybe I'm alone in that sentiment as well.

I think Donnie's suit in secret of the ooze was the only one that was noticeably different...his face was much more expressive and his eyes seemed to be bigger/show more, which for me didn't look nearly as realistic. To each his own of course, but I thought all 4 suits in the first were far superior. Also, for whatever reason, I definitely dig Feldman's voice over his predecessors (which just sounded "off" for me, and more "cartoonish" - like the whole film - for lack of a better word).

[1984TMNT]

And let's not even talk about these.....It was such a travesty....I don't know how these were ever approved for use. The story / acting was awful enough - these just added insult to injury. These suits weren't created by Jim Henson's creature shop, which is painfully obvious. I know we're getting off topic a bit here, but.....

http://bandbent.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_3.jpg

[Metropoliskid41]

I thought for the most part that the mouths, at least looked better in Ooze but not neccessarily all of the suits. But then again that probably just goes to the animatronics operation more than the suits themselves. Mikey seemed really short in Ooze, and I don't remember him seeming that short when in the first movie.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought it was pretty readily accepted that the Turtles II costumes were the apex of Turtle costume quality.

Which was about the only thing it was the apex of.

[Donnie]

It's my favorite TMNT universe. Say what you want about animatronic suits - I feel like they still look great and amazingly real, even by today's standards. They got worse and worse from the 2nd to 3rd movies, so I'm speaking only of those used in the 1st movie.


Agreed 100%, I think the suits got worse with each film. The first movie suits OWN.

I think Donnie's suit in secret of the ooze was the only one that was noticeably different...his face was much more expressive and his eyes seemed to be bigger/show more, which for me didn't look nearly as realistic. To each his own of course, but I thought all 4 suits in the first were far superior. Also, for whatever reason, I definitely dig Feldman's voice over his predecessors (which just sounded "off" for me, and more "cartoonish" - like the whole film - for lack of a better word).

Again, agreed 100%! I personally think Donnie's suit and voice were perfect in movie 1, and steady degradation followed (except in voice in #3, when Feldman came back.)

But yeah dude...those movie 3 suits are absolutely terrible, who thought it was okay to just strip all the Turtles of their individual faces and make them look like green ducks?

[MikeandRaph87]

Why couldn't the same suits be used for all three movies unless different sized were needed for different suit actors? It would have been less cost expensive and no less quality. I liked II the best probably but there wasn't much different between I and II,but III's I believe was a step down.

[Candy Kappa]

The suits degrade over time

[Toby Barrett]

http://bandbent.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_3.jpg

I like how they're all wearing Leonardo's belt.

[Andrew NDB]

It makes sense that they look different in Turtles III... after all, the Turtles were still "evolving" to eventually look like this:

http://www.nakedrobber.com/wp-content/uploads/nakedrobber-bronies2.jpg

Whoops, not that one. How did that link get in there? No, I meant this one:

http://mycartoonrewind.webs.com/tnm_tur.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

It makes sense that they look different in Turtles III... after all, the Turtles were still "evolving" to eventually look like this:

http://www.nakedrobber.com/wp-content/uploads/nakedrobber-bronies2.jpg

Whoops, not that one. How did that link get in there? No, I meant this one:

http://mycartoonrewind.webs.com/tnm_tur.jpg

Heh, I love this explanation.

[Candy Kappa]

Venus looks terrifying in that picture... Serial killer terrifying.

[Andrew NDB]

Venus looks terrifying in that picture... Serial killer terrifying.

It almost looks like her expression is in response to Donatello Marsellus Wallace-ing her... but the angle is slightly off.

[Metropoliskid41]

It almost looks like her expression is in response to Donatello Marsellus Wallace-ing her... but the angle is slightly off.

:tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol:

[ToTheNines]

It almost looks like her expression is in response to Donatello Marsellus Wallace-ing her... but the angle is slightly off.

Jp9SRCpz8AA

[1984TMNT]

Hahaha :tlol:You guys crack me up! To bring it full circle, I too enjoy Hoag's performance as April. She doesn't need to be a Hollywood style "babe" to play the part, and I thought her casting was great. The 2nd and 3rd movies were bad for numerous reasons besides the casting change for April. That said, swapping out Judith was a terrible mistake IMO, and I never did, and won't accept Paige Turco as April. Just didn't fit/work at all to me.

[MikeandRaph87]

Was it ever said why Hoag did not return and replace with Turco?

[Venom]

Was it ever said why Hoag did not return and replace with Turco?

Via Judith's IMDb board (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0387432/board/thread/38413629?d=39577209&p=1#39577209):

Two reasons- I wanted to make sure the quality stayed as close to (or even better than) the first TMNT. Alot of what made the story special was cut from the movie, it's more mystical aspects. "Too much story, not enough fighting" I was told. And, I wanted more time to actually do the work on set, not just a quick take or two. I had a few other requests and they said "!@#**" and then recast the part. I never saw the other two films but think that Paige Turco is a lovely actress and I love Elias Koteas - he's a wonderful actor. They did come back to me to possibly do the 3rd movie but the relationship was over by then. No regrets. I am amazed however, the impact that it had with kids at the time. I still get fan mail about Ninja Turtles.

[Donnie]

Two reasons- I wanted to make sure the quality stayed as close to (or even better than) the first TMNT. Alot of what made the story special was cut from the movie, it's more mystical aspects. "Too much story, not enough fighting" I was told. And, I wanted more time to actually do the work on set, not just a quick take or two. I had a few other requests and they said "!@#**" and then recast the part. I never saw the other two films but think that Paige Turco is a lovely actress and I love Elias Koteas - he's a wonderful actor. They did come back to me to possibly do the 3rd movie but the relationship was over by then. No regrets. I am amazed however, the impact that it had with kids at the time. I still get fan mail about Ninja Turtles.

So in others words, she knew what was up.

[CyberCubed]

I don't see why its a surprise they recasted her. When you start making demands about how a movie should go when you're just an actor in a supporting role, why would they have to keep her?

The real stars were the Turtles.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't see why its a surprise they recasted her. When you start making demands about how a movie should go when you're just an actor in a supporting role, why would they have to keep her?

CyberCubed is actually right. As hollow as TMNT II may have been, I would have preferred to see Judith reprise her role in that... but anybody that knows anything in Hollywood knows you kind of have to know your place as an actor in a movie, especially a supporting actor without a lot of clout.

After going through twenty rewrites, studio approval, script approval, dialogue tweakings after readings and stuff like that... to get to the time of shooting on the set and then one of your supporting cast is telling you what they do and don't want to do, that's a problem. I've seen it, and it sucks. It doesn't happen, at least if you want to keep working.

[Utromshredderhater]

One question. what does any of this have to do with the topic of the new origin?

[Metropoliskid41]

The evolution of the conversation!

I believe I sent it all down hill when I brought up the Foot Clan Coronation/initiation scene in the first movie and how I would like to see it brought into the pages of one of the upcoming issues of IDW's comic that explores shredder and the foot. :trazz:

[Donnie]

I don't see why its a surprise they recasted her. When you start making demands about how a movie should go when you're just an actor in a supporting role, why would they have to keep her?

The real stars were the Turtles.

Only problem is Paige T. was an empty shell while Judith had heart and actual acting abilities.

[Hermano Dyvas]

I dislike them having been mutated into teenagers straight away instead of starting as toddlers growing up in the sewers training their ninja skills.

Everything else is fine with me.

I do applaud the care and thought you can tell was put in the origin. It's more expanded then in most other versions.

[pihb]

I like it. The make a specific note in #5 about Bhudism which is great because Bhudist believe in reincarnation. I like it because its believable. Raph also talked about how he was refreshing on something he knew. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why splinter named them after renaissance artists instead of his blood born...

[Matches Malone]

I like it. The make a specific note in #5 about Bhudism which is great because Bhudist believe in reincarnation. I like it because its believable. Raph also talked about how he was refreshing on something he knew. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why splinter named them after renaissance artists instead of his blood born...

I also liked the reference to Buddha in #5 as Buddhism is at the foundation of much Japanese culture. This helped TMNT's Japanese roots feel more authentic than ever.

Regarding the naming, April O'Neil was actually the one who named the turtles and in #4, Splinter notes that they will keep those new given names to distinguish their present lives from their former ones.

[pihb]

I also liked the reference to Buddha in #5 as Buddhism is at the foundation of much Japanese culture. This helped TMNT's Japanese roots feel more authentic than ever.

Regarding the naming, April O'Neil was actually the one who named the turtles and in #4, Splinter notes that they will keep those new given names to distinguish their present lives from their former ones.

Still waiting for that issue to ship so I haven't read it :( but that makes sense. Seems well thought out. I like the Raph/ Casey partnership as social outcasts

[Toby Barrett]

Here you go,phib! (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8871/newnames.jpg)

[Raph's Girl]

I'd still love to know what their original names were!!

[Donnie]

I'd still love to know what their original names were!!

Ditto!!!!!!

[MikeandRaph87]

Ditto!!!!!!

I say most readers are interested/ I am quite curious myself!

[Venom]

Well, we know their surname! :D

I bet their given names started with L, R, M, and D, though. :twink:

[Candy Kappa]

Or R, R, M, D :P