What would be YOUR "ultimate" TMNT universe?

[Andrew NDB]

I'm curious. Describe it. What would you personally cherry pick from all the various TMNT universes and/or what would you do new to make a new TMNT universe that is unique that stands above the rest?

For the sake of this thread let's pretend it's a comic book, but it could be anything -- a new TV show, a new movie-verse, a manga, etc..

[CyberCubed]

While its too early to tell, what IDW is doing does seem close to what I want. They're not basing it on one particular TMNT era, they seem to be taking a little bit from everything.

Something that combines the Mirage, Fred Wolf/Archie, and 4kids series all into one while also adding new stuff would be ideal.

And hell, I think I just described the IDW series. If we do indeed see stuff adapted across every major TMNT universe in the IDW series, as well as notable characters from each, it could very well turn out to be my favorite part of the franchise.

Time will tell.

[oldmanwinters]

Mine would be to see somebody do to the Fred Wolf Universe what KaBoom! Comics did with Darkwing Duck and Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers.

God bless you, Ian Brill.

[Donnie]

A new movie-verse based solely off the first film which continued its continuity directly after Shredder's death would be the ideal scenario for me. If it was written as a comic, awesome.

In my "dream world" (and I say that because I did actually dream this), there would be 20 or so one-hour episodes of gritty TMNT action just continuing with the first film costumes and filming quality, only a bit darker, more action and a little more blood. There would certainly be mousers and rewrite of the whole TCRI building escapade. Shredder would return as in #10, there would be a 3-4 episode "City at War" arc, as well as new stories written in the vein of the original comic, just translated to the first film standards.

Of course, there would be more character development with each Turtle - it would highlight Mikey's interest in writing and things besides pizza, it would showcase Donnie's computer-mastermind, etc. It would take the genius of the first film (which in itself is an OT/comic mix) and take creative liberties where necessary. In other words, I'm not looking for a carbon-copy of the comics through film.

...now I gotta come back to real life. Dammit!

[Powder]

Feudal japan. Very "real" looking turtles (hunched over, thick limbed, beaks, etc.). Seldom seen. People who do see them regard them as demons. They live underground or in a cave. Maybe they're not mutants but the last of a race of animal gods or something wild like that frequently seen in Japanese mythology. A bit like souls winter. They'll wear traditional garb when out (pan-hats & the like), much like real ninjas they'd take jobs on the side killing whoever they were paid to, it'd be some real far out sh*t. Shredder, if present, would be a corrupt daimyo a la Lord Norinaga.

[Matches Malone]

Eastman & Laird would draw, naturally. As the series evolves, I'd probably like to see Frank Fosco take over art duties. Maybe that's just nostalgia for how the series did progress. Most of this is pretty much Mirage without the guest era and non-continuity issues.

-IDW origin involving StockGen, April, and The Foot, but don't think I would have separated Raphael in the very beginning. Also, replace reincarnation backstory with Mirage one with Splinter learning ninjitsu from his master Yoshi and combine Nagi and Saki characters as one character as in previous versions and give Saki a different motivation other than revenge for his brother's death. I like the bit of Saki we got in IDW (might makes right). Also, add the TCRI logo on the canister to give the turtles their clue and link from StockGen to the Utrom/Krang source of the mutagen.
-Pretty much the remaining Eastman & Laird Volume 1 story arcs (Mousers, Raphael #1, #4-7 TCRI, Leonardo #1/#10, Return To New York, and City At War) as is. Would not kill off Zog though and keep him on as a permanent ally.
-Triceraton aircar a la Image comics! Eventually move their HQ into a cemetery/church as well.
-Throw in a turtlebot and Slash in somehow at some point. Turtlebot engineered by Baxter and Slash can be a failed clone experiment.
-I think a story arc involving Hamato Yoshi's back story could be cool. Perhaps Splinter discovers one of Yoshi's daughters in danger and he protects her from the shadows or something. Sounds like a Tales story that's already been done...
-Gang wars!
-Future turtles story finally told! Maybe in the vein of Dark Knight Returns.

[Slap-Happy]

Hmmm. Good question.

The IDW series so far is just about perfect in some areas. I would love to see the tone of this series come over. But I'd change things like make the origin closer to Mirage up until Yoshi and Shen are killed, then in his dying breaths, Yoshi prays for a change at revenge, and he gets it, being reincarnated as Splinter.

The first movie is almost the perfect depiction of the Turtles, so thee would be a lot of influence from that in there.

For example, the turtles are closer to their first movie personalities with a little toning down in some areas. Splinter, April and Casey are all similar to Mirage and the first movie.

I'm basically saying a universe similar to the first movie, but with the tone and parts of the IDW origin, characters, etc. peppered in would be perfect.

[Abnormal Freak]

Ideally, something akin to the the street-level issues and shorts of Vol. 1 but with some of the mysticism seen in some issues like "The River", and the Turtles not being normal pet turtles mutated by disposed fluid but something more like "Soul's Winter". Combine all that but still have the familial aspect of Eastman and Laird's Turtles, but leave out the mega-doofery like tales in space and other planets and aliens and superheroes and that; you can have aliens and other planets, but have it be more some interconnected mystic thing rather than "evolution took its course throughout the universe." And I don't mind super-beings, but not in a typical superhero/supervillain sense; I like the way Dooney handled Complete Carnage and Radical.

And like "Soul's Winter" or something like Princess Mononoke, don't have there be typical "good guys vs. bad guys" stories, but something much more intertwined and not so clearly black and white; most people aren't strictly good or strictly evil, or more good than evil, more evil than good, etc. There ARE purely evil tyrants in the world, so you can have a few such characters, but not really something I'd wanna see as a recurring villain.

And I guess I'd like to see less "grand adventure in every issue" kind of storytelling. Vol. 1 goes like this: issue 1—Shredder; issue 2—Stockman; issues 4–7—Utroms and Triceratons; issue 12—some lame-ass terrorist group; issue 13—some space queen or whatever with lots of monsters. I mean...damn. It makes you think, "When do they get a break?" I love comics and serials for the fact that crazy stuff's always happening, but at the same time I'd almost like a more steady, less all-over-the-place fashion of telling stories, but have more a continuing flow—something perhaps like Vol. 4 but that actually goes somewhere. So it's kind of a balance I'm looking for, and less stories that feel like a one-off Saturday morning cartoon with the villain of the week. And when you do have those one-off stories and bad guys, I think it's more enjoyable to have something more realistic (albeit goofy) like issue 14, something down to earth you can imagine actually happening.

"City at War", despite its lack of mysticism is close to what I'd kinda like, and "Return to New York" is much of the same but also has Foot mystics reviving Oroku Saki in the way they did, which was ultra-cool.

I'd also probably like to see the Turtles think more collectively, at least for a time until perhaps the lures of the world make them start to develop and hone in on differing aspects, something that could create a struggle in that it tears the group apart—again, something like was done in "City at War" and even Vol. 3, but handled differently.

[Metropoliskid41]

I got to go with the same sentiments as many who have posted so far and say that IDW is probably my ideal Ultimate verse so far. Its not specifically based off of any one series and blends some elements from all of them so far.

I guess my 2nd choice would a monthly continuation of the Image series, and have it start by printing the fan #24 & 25 and take it from there.

[MikeandRaph87]

Mine would be to see somebody do to the Fred Wolf Universe what KaBoom! Comics did with Darkwing Duck and Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers. God bless, Ian Brill.

I have to second this concept! :tgrin:

[AquaParade]

I may come back and dream up a few different idea's. It's way too tempting!

But, all the great ideas in this thread make me realize how much we could use something like "Batman: Gotham Knight". For those who are unfamiliar, Gotham Knight was a six-part Batman dvd, with each segment being done by different writers/artists. They used each segment to show a fresh spin on Batman.

Ok...I guess we sort of had that in "Tales of TMNT"...and hell, even Volume 1, But it'd definitely be slick to see this is animated form. The concept for these guys has shown itself to be so versatile through the years. It's practically begging to be given this treatment.

[Metropoliskid41]

I may come back and dream up a few different idea's. It's way too tempting!

But, all the great ideas in this thread make me realize how much we could use something like "Batman: Gotham Knight". For those who are unfamiliar, Gotham Knight was a six-part Batman dvd, with each segment being done by different writers/artists. They used each segment to show a fresh spin on Batman.

Ok...I guess we sort of had that in "Tales of TMNT"...and hell, even Volume 1, But it'd definitely be slick to see this is animated form. The concept for these guys has shown itself to be so versatile through the years. It's practically begging to be given this treatment.

I agree man!! There are a lot of great Tales issues out there that could be put onto a couple of volumes of dvds, each with a different animation style fitting for the story. I think there could be a lot great short animated stories done that way for the TMNT Universes. If we can't get a new Tales comic or a continuation of the Mirageverse and Archieverse it would be cool to see some animated adaptions of old stories with some short stories thrown in there as well. Batman Gotham Knight is one of my favorite DC Animated movies because of the format. Green Lantern Emerald Knights follows in similar fashion with its tales of the Corps basis, but the animation is pretty much all the same in all of those shorts.

[Matches Malone]

I may come back and dream up a few different idea's. It's way too tempting!

But, all the great ideas in this thread make me realize how much we could use something like "Batman: Gotham Knight". For those who are unfamiliar, Gotham Knight was a six-part Batman dvd, with each segment being done by different writers/artists. They used each segment to show a fresh spin on Batman.

Ok...I guess we sort of had that in "Tales of TMNT"...and hell, even Volume 1, But it'd definitely be slick to see this is animated form. The concept for these guys has shown itself to be so versatile through the years. It's practically begging to be given this treatment.

Not sure about an anthology, but an anime with a serious tone (done by someone like madhouse) would be pretty amazing. They still put us to shame when it comes to animation and action.

[Logan]

I kind of like the approach of the old Konami games. It was a sort of all-inclusive approach toward the turtle mythos. I'd do something like that.

[Archon_Turtle]

Artistically I'd love to see an expanded Farley universe. He is by far my favorite Turtle artist is regards to style.

[Galactus]

My ideal TMNT series would be what I originaly envisioned the IDW series was going to be...

Imagine a continuity almost like exactly like the Mirage Vol. 1 but not quite. Imagine Return To New York had a slightly different ending. The turtles score a definitive victory over the Foot and the building blows but the Shredder survives or his body isn't found.

START THERE

We have the classic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles setup with the turtles and Splinter living in New York, April and Casey are there. At war with the Shredder and the Foot and getting up to other crazy shenanigans.

Origin story? Don't need it. Anyone inclined to pick up a TMNT book knows the basics. If not we can have a few flashbacks or a backup strip and all the more reason to pump out that Ultimate Collection.

New Twists? You can still have them. The classic origin doesn't exclude the possibility of reincarnation, just make it a random ancient japanese warrior and his four sons.

Old Hob could still be exposed to the ooze in the sewers along with the turtles and Splinter. He could have menaced the turtles and their master on and off for years, since they were turtle tots all the way to the present day. I'd say that would make Old Hob's story more compelling as well as make him an equal stature villain as the Shredder.

You could reimagine some Mirage stories like City at War and the Vol. 2 stuff but mainly stick with new stories.

I wouldn't mind characters and concepts plucked from other media as long as it's not a free for all and you've got a good story to tell with them as opposed to "I really want to use Jagwar let's write a story around the character".

[marcelangelo]

my ultimate universe?hmmm, I can't say really in detail..I love something about every already existing turtleverse...of course the original mirage universe being dear to my heart because it IS the original concept...the real deal, I love these comics.they tons of fun....but to be honest, I think for me the ultimate universe could be anything really(as long as it is done with a passion for it and lotsa effort), there's just gotta be something subtle in the room with it...something that works...and you know it could go anyhere really and you cannot predict it...

an ultimate project for my taste would be a collaboration between peter laird and kevin eastman with stan sakai and make a great 45 page crossover story with usagi and the turtles with each team drawing their creations(like the upcomming groo vs conan comics)...would be interesting how they'd combine the different black and white art styles....and this had to be an a storyline, of course....

[Spitfire]

It would be Archie with the tone pushed further to resemble the Mirage comics more. The Eco-preachy stuff wouldn't be there but the characters created during those times would still exist for the most part. I would see the story picking up more around the Future Shark, half way point, and continuing on past that. Dropping in elements of the best Mirage volume 1 stories where they fit. I already liked the turtles personalities in Archie but I would make Mikey more like his Image counterpart. Casey would also be in it and April as well but I'd leave her self sufficient as she was in Archie. Loved Splinter in Archie but at some point I would see him die in a way to drive the turtles over the edge, possibly leading to the grim future we see in Future Shark.

I'd like to see Dan Berger on pencils and Eric Talbot on inks. Covers all hand painted by the awesome AC Farley. As for writers Mike Benson comes to mind for his awesome work on Moon Knight but I think Garth Ennis could do a pretty neat turtles book as well. He's not usually a fantasy kind of guy but I like his writing style and if he worked with in the confines I mentioned I bet he could come up with some great stories.

[AquaParade]

If I were to somehow dream it up in a feasible way, I would probably wish for the ultimate tmnt video-game. Over the last decade or so, video-games have probably become my favorite medium - anything is possible.

The tricky part, is figuring out how the elements I love in TMNT can be translated in a positive way into a video-game. For example, while the old side-scrollers are fun, they don't really represent whats great about the franchise. Awesome ninja battles are only one aspect I love about these stories. I would need to feel like an outcast, feel like a ninja, play with ninja tools, and feel like a part of a family to be fully satisfied. This would clearly be a niche game that would probably require a ton of money and research into the franchise, if even possible at all. I guess a mixture of elements from the Tenchu series ( stealth, gadgets, combat ) along side elements of a Western Rpg ( dialogue tree's, character development ) would be one way to take it on. But much easier said than done. We all know you can't just mash video-game elements together so simply.

Does anyone have any great idea's for a tmnt game? It's hard for me to even dream one up, because like I said, the franchise doesn't easily translate into video-game territory. Mindless brawlers just don't do it for me. There is more to the turtles than action.

If I can't have that, bring on an Alan Moore tmnt story.

[Jester]

Archie all the way. I love how it grew up with me, so taking those characters, and like Spitfire said, putting them in more Mirage-esque situations would be awesome.

[CyberCubed]

The Archie universe was great but it really lacked realistic urban stories. Almost half the series has the Turtles globe-trotting and battling other mutants/aliens/creatures.

I actually found it funny when I realized the Turtles hardly ever stayed in New York in the Archie series. Goodness.

[Jester]

Now that you mention it...I never thought of that.

[Andrew NDB]

It's been taking a few days of working on it and coming back to it, but I've been drumming up my own thoughts on the matter. Until I complete it, for right now, I'll say that I'd pre-plan everything into different "eras," each one more or less with a very different "feel" to them... beginning with very heavy ninja action, later (maybe 30 issues later) leading to a more Archie-like (but reimagined and visceral) era with a lot of other mutants spawned, then coming full circle back to a more heavy ninja action era with a bit of the former before heading into more of a Vol. 4-type of era (mutants and aliens are exposed and all of their existences are above-board, no more hiding) after about 100 issues. This wouldn't, of course, preclude the occasional one or two part story in-between any of this that would venture into other genres (i.e., "Twilight of the Ring," "Halls of Lost Legends," or Triceraton odyssey sort of fare).

It's no mystery that I'd want to use the Mirage source material as the backbone, but I'd absolutely borrow quite a few tidbits from the first movie (though pretty damn surgically), the Archie series heavily (while none of the personalities), a few things from the Fred Wolf series that could be turned on their head to be made into things inspiring, and a few more of the raw "bigger universe" ideas the 4Kids series introduced too. I'd also tend to think I'd want to incorporate the reincarnation thing IDW has brought to the table, too, but I'd save that for something that all the Turtles (Splinter, too) would learn about a good long ways down the line as a new twist that they would find out after a spiritual journey, probably as the climax to some kind of a Vertigo-like arc in which they question the purpose to their existence or something somesuch.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The Archie universe was great but it really lacked realistic urban stories. Almost half the series has the Turtles globe-trotting and battling other mutants/aliens/creatures.

I actually found it funny when I realized the Turtles hardly ever stayed in New York in the Archie series. Goodness.

And the 1987 cartoon had the opposite problem: The stayed in New York City for circa 90 % of the episodes (except som Technodrome visits at various places, but New York City was still the main setting for the episodes).

[Jester]

And the 1987 cartoon had the opposite problem: The stayed in New York City for circa 90 % of the episodes (except som Technodrome visits at various places, but New York City was still the main setting for the episodes).
There was a season where they weren't in NYC...and it stunk. I mean it didn't even have Rob Paulsen in it...

[oldmanwinters]

We can probably assume there was a whole "untold tales" era in the Archie-verse in which the turtles fought their crazy mutant-of-the-week battles in New York. The Specials and filler issues generally presented a picture of the TMNT that was fairly similar to the Fred Wolf Toon (Shredder, Bebop/Rocksteady up to no good, April in the yellow jumpsuit reporting for Channel 6 News, etc.). However, by the time we got around to TMNT Adventures #6, the status quo started to change. Shredder and Krang would be removed as regular threats to New York, and thus there wouldn't be near as much reason for the TMNT to hang around the Big Apple.

At least, that's what I'll assume until DrSpengler's Archie TMNT Continuity list comes out.

[MikeandRaph87]

The flashback tale with the Mammoth I think it was #41 was an example of that. I didn't mind seeing the direction change but it happened too quick for my liking. I would have liked to have seen more of The Shredder,Bebop, and Rocksteady up to some scheme that may not have included another mutant.

Jester,as the#1 Rob Paulsen fan perhaps you know why, I know why Rob was not there for the last eight episodes but was it ever said by Rob or another why he and James Avery did not record the European Vacation episodes?

[Hermano Dyvas]

hmmm elements I'd like to see from the other TMNT universes:

Mirage:
- The origin of the TMNT themselves, not Splinter's, at least not completely, more on this stance below.
- Red headbands
- Turtles who aren't afraid to kill when appropriate.
- Cycle of vengeance between the TMNT and the foot clan.
- The dark future

Classic cartoon:
- Hamato Yoshi = Splinter. Splinter being human just makes him a lot more believeable as a sensei, mirage Splinter basically just played copy-cat with Hamato Yoshi but he was never truly educated. This origin also provides more story potential exploring his previous life as a human. You don't even have to remove Tang Shen's murder by Oroku Saki from the equation to have this origin.
- April is or becomes a news reporter. This again allows for more story potential and it also allows her to be more involved in the TMNT's adventures, she could try and expose the foot clan kind of like she was doing in the first movie.
- Krang and his technodrome, he's just too good a villain to be ignored. When he shows up it should be big though. Not too many recurring appearances if any.
- Bebop and Rocksteady, same as with Krang. I like these guys, they should be rewritten to be more dangerous villains, they're great to be used as dumb muscle occasionally.

Archie:
- Ninjara, I liked her. Like in Archie she would be a part of the family being in a relationship with Raph for a while before they break up.

- I hesitate to bring in the future turtles because I actually find the dark future of the mirage verse more interesting. Maybe like in Archie if it turned out in the end their world became a different version of the present day TMNT. You know, in their world the mutanimals were killed much later but when history was changed their history remained intact.

2K3:
- Hun and the purple dragons being a part of the foot clan.
- Agent Bishop who is again a villain too cool to ignore.
- Karai being shredder's adopted daughter, struggling to honor her beliefs or her father.

Next mutation:
- When it becomes a mutant fest, Bonesteel should be brought in to clean up :D. I know he's kinda lame but I kinda like his character. He should be made more competent but I wouldn't think of changing his batshit crazyness.

Movies:
- Tatsu being Shredder's second in command, even higher then the elite foot ninja. He has unquestioned loyalty towards his master.


That's all I got now. I haven't figured out anything unique yet though I do think a combo of all the above would be pretty unique :D

[Matches Malone]

Unable to shake the mixed feelings I have of IDW's turtles, I've drawn up a sort of outline of my "ultimate TMNT" universe's origin. I really love a lot of ideas in the IDW series so far, but think it could be so much better if utilized differently. If written, this would probably adapt a similar approach as Waltz, tying the various narratives together as we go along. For now, this outline is in chronological story order for the sake of coherence. I would also definitely retain much of the origin, particularly Splinter's past, as a tale he finally reveals to his sons after many years of training a la Mirage Vol 1 #1. It's pretty lengthy, so I don't expect too many to read it all the way through, but let me know what you think if you do!

Origin
-In feudal Japan, Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki are members of the Foot Clan. They competed in all things including the love of Tang Shen. Yoshi and Shen eventually wed and start a family with a few children. During this time, Yoshi objects to Saki’s ruthless methods. Saki responds to this treachery (and convenient excuse to sate his resentment towards Yoshi) by having his family and him assassinated. Before being killed he prays to Buddha that while reincarnation is destined only for those worthy of a second chance, he begs for an opportunity to avenge his fallen family in another life. His passion and fury is strong enough that fate grants his wish.

-Prior to the turles’ origin, Utroms transporting Krang, a rogue Utrom, crash land on Earth. Krang managed to utilize an escape pod at the last minute and they land in different parts of New York. Utrom’s are a benign alien civilization whose culture centers on advancement as the most evolved species in both technology and morality. Krang is a war criminal who has twisted his cultural inheritance into a quest for perfection and destroying any (and ultimately all) who do not live up to his standards.

-Turtles and Splinter are experimented on at StockGen by Chet, Baxter Stockman (mid 30’s) and April O’Neil (early 20’s) as an intern. Baxter earns a prestigious U.S. military contract to develop and bio-engineer super-soldier mutagen, robotics, and a psychotropic serum, due to the success of his patented M.O.U.S.E.R.S. Krang recognizes Baxter’s high intellect (for a human),and decides to partner with him disguised in an ex-suit. He lends his alien knowledge to expedite the research. It is revealed as Krang and Baxter exit a scene that he has discovered where they can acquire a basis for a mutagen from a nearby start-up tech company which is later shown to be TCRI, run by the Utroms. It turns out they are building a semi-legitimate company to fulfill their long-term goal to raise funds to acquire the materials they need to return home. After realizing they would be stuck on Earth for a long time, they decide to continue their own experiments, including mutagen which is intended to improve organic life through direct and subtle mutation for various purposes such as regrowing lost limbs, stronger immune system, and other physical advantages to be gained. Once they discover a canister is stolen (presumably by Krang), they decide it is too dangerous and focus on getting back home.

-The Foot, persistent in obtaining every advancement in weapons technology to give their clan the edge, break into StockGen to steal research and specimens, including the turtles and Splinter, but are discovered by Baxter and Krang who fail to stop them. Splinter somehow manages to escape and attacks one of the ninjas which cause the turtles and mutagen to be dropped into a nearby alleyway. Splinter follows shortly after we see that the ninja has become scarred. Old Hob, a surly alley cat, notices the turtles, makes contact with some of the leaking mutagen as he grabs Raphael and runs off as he tries to eat him. Hob eventually gives up when he realizes he can’t bite through his shell. Splinter pulls the rest of the turtles and, inadvertently, the mutagen canister, into the sewers. Hob, in the meantime, is eventually discovered by Baxter & Krang and they take him in to experiment on.

-Those exposed to the mutagen slowly mutate and within a year reach full size. Splinter has hidden the mutagen canister this whole time so that the turtles are not burdened by questions of their origin. He fishes out book about renaissance art from the sewers, names the turtles and begins their training. During this time, Raphael (currently nameless), wandering the streets, quickly realizes his appearance startles those on the streets and learns to stick to the shadows. His feelings of anger and resentment are allowed to harvest untempered. Eventually he witnesses Casey Jones (early 20’s) pummeling several thugs. Raphael in blind rage joins in and they together mercilessly beat the thugs within an inch of their lives. Casey decides he likes Raphael’s unrestrained demeanor and takes him in. He turns out to be a homeless vigilante who defends the neighborhood and squats in a nearby cemetery. Raphael asks what he should call him to which Casey responds that he doesn’t care much about people’s names, but rather their actions.

-1 year later, Splinter is still searching for Raphael at night while the turtles remain in their lair. He finally discovers Raphael with Casey and demands he returns home under his protection. He also states that he cannot be part of the human world and must never contact Casey again. Raphael is at first torn due to his loyalty to Casey, but finds a kinship and comfort in seeing another mutant, and ultimately decides to go with Splinter. Casey neither sees nor hears from them again for 13 years.

-13 years later (15 years since the StockGen incident and now the present), the turtles have begun to reach their peak in their skills as ninja. In their home, the lair in the sewers, Splinter takes this time to reveal that the psychotropic serum at StockGen had awakened his past consciousness; his former life as Hamato Yoshi. He offers this explanation as to why he was no ordinary rat. Seeing the helpless turtles reminded him of his lost family and decided to protect them and eventually become their sensei and father figure. During this time, he shows the turtles the canister (which has the TCRI logo on it). Lastly, he tells them that on his past expeditions above the sewers, he had discovered that Oroku Saki has somehow re-emerged as The Shredder. He has been training his sons to assist him in his quest for vengeance on Saki.

-Back to Baxter, we learn that he has since lost his military contract and is embittered. He decides to go back to the start and focus once again on robotics… Krang abandoned him long ago and hasn’t been heard from since. Old Hob still sits in captivity ever since his initial capture, with a growing distrust for humans.

-After so many years, April & Casey’s respective encounters with the turtles have become faded memories. They are each about to have a startling reunion.

[Sophie Campbell]

i really dig your storyline, Matches! i like the larger span of time and Casey meeting Raph when he's younger and then reuniting over a decade later, that's really cool. and homeless Casey!! awesome.

if i did an Ultimate TMNT i'm not sure what storyline specifics i would do, but i have a TMNT fan-comic i want to do and i've been tooling with ideas for a while some of which are little things like have the Turtles speak Japanese to each other sometimes, show more about them learning about American culture and observing humans through the sewers, have them be vegetarians or at least pescatarians who catch fish in the local rivers for food, and have their weapons be cobbled-together junkyard versions of their established weapons, built from scraps. not that i want TMNT to be ultra-realistic, it never has been and i think ultra-realism would be contrary to its spirit, but i always found it funny that their weapons always appear to be nice-condition store-bought items somehow and i like the idea of the Turtles constructing their own belongings from the discarded scraps of human society.

if i ever get around to doing my fan-comic, i promise i won't steal your awesome homeless Casey Jones idea, Matches! :)

[Matches Malone]

i really dig your storyline, Matches! i like the larger span of time and Casey meeting Raph when he's younger and then reuniting over a decade later, that's really cool. and homeless Casey!! awesome.

if i did an Ultimate TMNT i'm not sure what storyline specifics i would do, but i have a TMNT fan-comic i want to do and i've been tooling with ideas for a while some of which are little things like have the Turtles speak Japanese to each other sometimes, show more about them learning about American culture and observing humans through the sewers, have them be vegetarians or at least pescatarians who catch fish in the local rivers for food, and have their weapons be cobbled-together junkyard versions of their established weapons, built from scraps. not that i want TMNT to be ultra-realistic, it never has been and i think ultra-realism would be contrary to its spirit, but i always found it funny that their weapons always appear to be nice-condition store-bought items somehow and i like the idea of the Turtles constructing their own belongings from the discarded scraps of human society.

if i ever get around to doing my fan-comic, i promise i won't steal your awesome homeless Casey Jones idea, Matches! :)

Mooncalfe, er, I mean Ross, you totally made my day! Here I was feeling like a total nerd spending all this time writing this and really liking some of these ideas, but figuring I would likely be alone in this. I'm really glad you read it, let alone liked it! Maybe a collaboration some day? ;) If you ever do a TMNT comic, I would feel so honored to have my ideas ripped off! I don't consider myself a writer, so that's why I posted this on a public forum, because I don't think I would ever get a chance to actually use this. But I got ideas, man, I got 'em! The homeless Casey idea just came to me as I was writing it, actually, and I'm glad you really like it too! It just seemed to click and make sense. So by all means, it's up for grabs. I figured when they met again, it would be really interesting to see Raphael trying to apply Splinter's lessons of restraint and having mixed feelings as he is excited to see him but realizes that Casey hasn't changed and still goes too far.

I also decided that condensing the IDW storyline to 18 months, while I can overlook it, just isn't my preference. To make them teenagers in such a roundabout way (from their past lives) when they are technically only 18 months old just feels silly. Also, that 15 years of isolation in Mirage is a pretty important aspect of their origin, in my opinion. Reincarnation is unquestionably IDW's most important contribution to the turtles mythos so far, and I think it's absolutely perfect (just not the turtles!!)

I also really like your ideas too. Junkyard weapons! I can already see it in my mind and that's really cool. Sort of the way Slash's equipment was kind of haphazardly put together in the Fred Wolf cartoon (not to say it would be just like that). And speaking Japanese and learning American culture is awesome! I've always thought of the turtles as "First Generation Japanese Ninja Turtles." Japanese-American essentially, and always loved seeing the cultural gap between them and Splinter. It made the family dynamic so much more interesting. If you ever did your TMNT fan-comic I would love to see it. And we can chat and I'll let you have any ideas of mine you like! :) I even read your outline for your Triceraton story for Tales and I love that kind of stuff.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The Archie universe was great but it really lacked realistic urban stories. Almost half the series has the Turtles globe-trotting and battling other mutants/aliens/creatures.

I actually found it funny when I realized the Turtles hardly ever stayed in New York in the Archie series. Goodness.

Travelling around the Earth could involve more urban stories (the Sumo wrestling story in Japan is actually a nice one). But realistic? The idea of intelligent life even on other planets than the Earth is more realistic than four turtles, talking and walking on four legs.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Travelling around the Earth could involve more urban stories (the Sumo wrestling story in Japan is actually a nice one). But realistic? The idea of (intelligent) life even on other planets than the Earth is more realistic than four turtles, talking and walking on four legs :):).

And shouldn't this be moved into general TMNT discussion.

[Jephael]

Boy those are some awesome scenarios! As for me, I like all the different iterations of the TMNT, and I don't think I could make up just one definitive version.

[Killer Moth]

Currently, I often wonder what the 87 series would be like, if it maintained the tone and general competency of the original mini-series. This is not to say I dislike the subsequent seasons (not in the least), but what might have been had they went on the path they were on, vs. the then-necessary revisions or toning down, vis-a-vis, tight 80's censorship. It goes without saying to wish this, but I want to say it, anyway. (Said after a recent high of re-watching "Shredder is Splintered" multiple times.)

Second closest was Archie, whenever it wasn't political or, basically, the first year. Yes, it was basically a Playmates toy commerical, but they still were interesting or devised surprisingly good characterizations from good designs (Wingnut, Scumbug, Wyrm). Then, came the environmentalism and the rest, etc.

In terms of writing, IDW is trending toward my way of thinking (cross-media appeal, sprinkle past popular franchise characters like Krang and the our favorite punk mutants, here and there). I hope the payoff is worth it, but currently, I like what I see or appreciate the direction they're engaging in.

[Redeemer]

Hmmm......I will have to come back to this....I will be back with an idea later tonite

[Drose18]

I liked mirage and 2k3 but I disliked mirages Michelangelo.

[Powder]

Mirage's Michelangelo could be a bit dull in his early days but 2k3 Mikey was insufferable after a short period of time.

[Matches Malone]

Currently, I often wonder what the 87 series would be like, if it maintained the tone and general competency of the original mini-series. This is not to say I dislike the subsequent seasons (not in the least), but what might have been had they went on the path they were on, vs. the then-necessary revisions or toning down, vis-a-vis, tight 80's censorship. It goes without saying to wish this, but I want to say it, anyway. (Said after a recent high of re-watching "Shredder is Splintered" multiple times.)


I love the mini-series and was pleasantly surprised at how good my childhood show was. Then I got the 2nd season and gave up on the show. I don't think censorship was the main issue with its divergence from the first season so much as, quite plainly, the quality of the writing and direction. I know there are many apologists for that show, so I'll just chalk it up to personal taste. Also, they switched animation studios, which was a big disappointment too. I really liked the all-ages approach and I think if they had continued with the story-arc approach of the first season, I would still watch that show from time to time as I do with the first season. Instead, it definitely succumbed to what many people criticized it for: an episodic toy commercial that doesn't really go anywhere. Granted I haven't seen a lot of it in a long time, and if people are entertained by it, then all the more power to them!

Mirage's Michelangelo could be a bit dull in his early days but 2k3 Mikey was insufferable after a short period of time.

The only thing more insufferable in that show was the insufferable number of "shell" puns. I think that's pretty much any number over 2.

[Killer Moth]

I love the mini-series and was pleasantly surprised at how good my childhood show was. Then I got the 2nd season and gave up on the show. I don't think censorship was the main issue with its divergence from the first season so much as, quite plainly, the quality of the writing and direction. I know there are many apologists for that show, so I'll just chalk it up to personal taste. Also, they switched animation studios, which was a big disappointment too. I really liked the all-ages approach and I think if they had continued with the story-arc approach of the first season, I would still watch that show from time to time as I do with the first season. Instead, it definitely succumbed to what many people criticized it for: an episodic toy commercial that doesn't really go anywhere. Granted I haven't seen a lot of it in a long time, and if people are entertained by it, then all the more power to them!

While I do think censorship played its part, I recently learned Wise had left for a season or two. Imagine if he hadn't left right after "Shredder is Splintered," thus not losing the creative momentum at that key moment in time. (Yes, he provided the story for "Return of the Shredder," but it isn't quite the same thing.) Then again, we got Michael Reaves for Season 2's second half, and he's a rather competent writer, both in the series and in the medium, in general. In recent threads, I have stated being more impressed with Season 2, and yet, I clearly acknowledge it's a hard fall to go from "Shredder is Splintered" to, say, "Case of the Killer Pizzas."

Speaking as an "apologist," I don't completely disagree with your contentions, either. While the general consensus is "the first season is awesome," the later seasons can be seen an acquired taste as the audience becomes more sophisticated (or more jaded or less willing to suspend their disbelief, to be more cynical) as time passes. In some aspects, the series aged better, because it made good snark bait or, depending on how you view Raph's sarcasm, subversive humor for adults. In others, like the animation, not so much.

But then, hey, as Dr.Splenger said in his Turtles Forever review, "don't take your Turtles so seriously." With that in mind, the series aged better than I thought -- or it doesn't personally bother me as it might have during my hardcore comic fanboy days or I picked a better time to re-explore the series when I don't take life so seriously anymore. Of course, I'm only speaking of my perspective, as the comic fanboys are essential in their way, oh, yes. Regardless, it's all a matter of perspective or interpretation, as you said.

Edit: To expand the 87/Archie compare/contrast, compare/contrast Shredder's prominence. In the 87 series, Shredder was frequently used (or to be less generous, overused). Conversely, he was used less and less as the Archie series progressed (save for the first year, naturally, and several appearances by the end of the second year). Interesting disparity.

[Powder]

The only thing more insufferable in that show was the insufferable number of "shell" puns. I think that's pretty much any number over 2.

Admittedly I'm a sucker for bad humor but I loved those puns, haha.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Currently, I often wonder what the 87 series would be like, if it maintained the tone and general competency of the original mini-series. This is not to say I dislike the subsequent seasons (not in the least), but what might have been had they went on the path they were on, vs. the then-necessary revisions or toning down, vis-a-vis, tight 80's censorship. It goes without saying to wish this, but I want to say it, anyway. (Said after a recent high of re-watching "Shredder is Splintered" multiple times.)

Second closest was Archie, whenever it wasn't political or, basically, the first year. Yes, it was basically a Playmates toy commerical, but they still were interesting or devised surprisingly good characterizations from good designs (Wingnut, Scumbug, Wyrm). Then, came the environmentalism and the rest, etc.

In terms of writing, IDW is trending toward my way of thinking (cross-media appeal, sprinkle past popular franchise characters like Krang and the our favorite punk mutants, here and there). I hope the payoff is worth it, but currently, I like what I see or appreciate the direction they're engaging in.

Season 2 of the 1987 show actualyl has an even darker tone. Season 3 starts with two darker episodes, but then comes "Attack of the 50 Foot Irma".

[Sophie Campbell]

I also decided that condensing the IDW storyline to 18 months, while I can overlook it, just isn't my preference. To make them teenagers in such a roundabout way (from their past lives) when they are technically only 18 months old just feels silly. Also, that 15 years of isolation in Mirage is a pretty important aspect of their origin, in my opinion. Reincarnation is unquestionably IDW's most important contribution to the turtles mythos so far, and I think it's absolutely perfect (just not the turtles!!)

i love the reincarnation aspect, i was so surprised by that and the more i thought about it the more i liked it and the different sort of pathos it gives to the characters. i don't think it's better or worse than the original Mirage origin, i suppose i'll always like that one best because of its simplicity and science-ness, but it's its own thing. i like the idea that the Turtles in some sense know what it's like to be murdered whether they remember it or not, and i love Donatello and Leonardo butting heads over the concept in the IDW series. i also like how at first the reincarnation seems all magical mumbo jumbo, but it IS tied in with science since whatever force is at work can be affected by the psychotropic serum somehow.

If you ever did your TMNT fan-comic I would love to see it. And we can chat and I'll let you have any ideas of mine you like! :) I even read your outline for your Triceraton story for Tales and I love that kind of stuff.

i have some sketches for the fan-comic but it really needs a lot more work. i'm having the Turtles not wear masks at all, they have colored face/eye markings instead, so it's pretty different. and their origin involves a meteorite!! XD the main story itself is a remake of Secret of the Ooze, but spun differently. hopefully someday i can do it.

glad you liked that Shadow/Triceraton story, thanks!! i wish i could've done that. :(

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

hmmm elements I'd like to see from the other TMNT universes:

Mirage:
- The origin of the TMNT themselves, not Splinter's, at least not completely, more on this stance below.
- Red headbands
- Turtles who aren't afraid to kill when appropriate.
- Cycle of vengeance between the TMNT and the foot clan.
- The dark future

Classic cartoon:
- Hamato Yoshi = Splinter. Splinter being human just makes him a lot more believeable as a sensei, mirage Splinter basically just played copy-cat with Hamato Yoshi but he was never truly educated. This origin also provides more story potential exploring his previous life as a human. You don't even have to remove Tang Shen's murder by Oroku Saki from the equation to have this origin.
- April is or becomes a news reporter. This again allows for more story potential and it also allows her to be more involved in the TMNT's adventures, she could try and expose the foot clan kind of like she was doing in the first movie.
- Krang and his technodrome, he's just too good a villain to be ignored. When he shows up it should be big though. Not too many recurring appearances if any.
- Bebop and Rocksteady, same as with Krang. I like these guys, they should be rewritten to be more dangerous villains, they're great to be used as dumb muscle occasionally.

Archie:
- Ninjara, I liked her. Like in Archie she would be a part of the family being in a relationship with Raph for a while before they break up.

- I hesitate to bring in the future turtles because I actually find the dark future of the mirage verse more interesting. Maybe like in Archie if it turned out in the end their world became a different version of the present day TMNT. You know, in their world the mutanimals were killed much later but when history was changed their history remained intact.

2K3:
- Hun and the purple dragons being a part of the foot clan.
- Agent Bishop who is again a villain too cool to ignore.
- Karai being shredder's adopted daughter, struggling to honor her beliefs or her father.

Next mutation:
- When it becomes a mutant fest, Bonesteel should be brought in to clean up :D. I know he's kinda lame but I kinda like his character. He should be made more competent but I wouldn't think of changing his batshit crazyness.

Movies:
- Tatsu being Shredder's second in command, even higher then the elite foot ninja. He has unquestioned loyalty towards his master.


That's all I got now. I haven't figured out anything unique yet though I do think a combo of all the above would be pretty unique :D

Do you want Bebop and Rocksteady to be Purple Dragons? And Shredder to use only human Foot soldiers, or both human Foot soldiers and Foot robots.

Archie actually has a dark future. As you probably already know, all coastal towns on the Earth are flooded due to global warming, and as the sewers and streets are flooded, rats climb inside the buildings.

[Killer Moth]

Season 2 of the 1987 show actualyl has an even darker tone. Season 3 starts with two darker episodes, but then comes "Attack of the 50 Foot Irma".

Any season with "Enter: The Fly" won't be sunny, no, and for good reason. I was attempting to put myself into a different fan perspective, like Matches', and saying his point about the series' shift in tone is valid to a certain degree. (The term would be "playing devil's advocate.") Now, as an adult, Season 2 has aged much better than I personally thought, and, you're correct, it is darker in some spots ("Splinter No More" for a subtle version, "E:TF" for an obvious one).

It's all interpretation, as some seasons aged better than others, and it's up to the fans to figure out which ones have, etc.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Do you want Bebop and Rocksteady to be Purple Dragons? And Shredder to use only human Foot soldiers, or both human Foot soldiers and Foot robots.

Archie actually has a dark future. As you probably already know, all coastal towns on the Earth are flooded due to global warming, and as the sewers and streets are flooded, rats climb inside the buildings.

Oh Archie's future definately isn't a bright one for our earth but when I said dark future I meant more for the TMNT themselves. Like how mirage Raph ends up in that swamp all by himself and Mikey being missing and stuff like that.

Considering Bebop & Rocksteady, I tdon't think they should be purple dragons. I feel they should be part of their own gang, like they were in the OT, perhaps the rest of their gang could even get wiped out by the purple dragons for messing around on their turf putting B&R at direct odds with them.

I prefer Shredder to use human foot soldiers but perhaps at some point the foot could suffer a major defeat and have most of it's members arrested. Perhaps at this time Shredder could form a temporary alliance with Krang and employ some robot soldiers. I don't know if you've read "turtle turncoat" but it would be cool if Shredder and Krang's alliance would end here in a similar fashion.

Shredder has reprogrammed the robot foot soldiers to only obey him and not Krang anymore, meanwhile the human foot has been hiding in the shadows after faking their downfall and they return to help Shredder take over from Krang.

[Matches Malone]

and their origin involves a meteorite!! XD

whoa, meteorites?! i think you've watched "meteor man" one too many times!

[Galactus]

i love the reincarnation aspect, i was so surprised by that and the more i thought about it the more i liked it and the different sort of pathos it gives to the characters. i don't think it's better or worse than the original Mirage origin, i suppose i'll always like that one best because of its simplicity and science-ness, but it's its own thing.

The reincarnation angle is fine with me, it's the whole instant-mutagen that makes me roll my eyes. In the Fred Wolf show it works because it's supposed to be nonesense but it strikes me as iffy in a series that is mostly a serious take on the mythos and quasi-realistic.

In my opinion you could have kept the Stockgen and reincarnation angle simply set 15 years prior. Old Hob would have worked better as a nemesis that had menaced Splinter and the turtles on and off over the years. As it stands he's the turtle's lifelong enemy...but that life is only 18 months which makes it silly. Not to mention right now he's evil for no reason, a rivalry spanning years would work to making the character a lot more credible all round.

The only thing that would be lost in this would be the whole Raph being lost story but that didn't amount to much anyway. You could argue that it explains Raph's hot headedness (which we haven't seen much of in this series) but it's implied that the boys they used to be in ancient Japan have the same personalities aswell as when they were baby turtles at Stockgen.

[Matches Malone]

The reincarnation angle is fine with me, it's the whole instant-mutagen that makes me roll my eyes. In the Fred Wolf show it works because it's supposed to be nonesense but it strikes me as iffy in a series that is mostly a serious take on the mythos and quasi-realistic.

In my opinion you could have kept the Stockgen and reincarnation angle simply set 15 years prior. Old Hob would have worked better as a nemesis that had menaced Splinter and the turtles on and off over the years. As it stands he's the turtle's lifelong enemy...but that life is only 18 months which makes it silly. Not to mention right now he's evil for no reason, a rivalry spanning years would work to making the character a lot more credible all round.

The only thing that would be lost in this would be the whole Raph being lost story but that didn't amount to much anyway. You could argue that it explains Raph's hot headedness (which we haven't seen much of in this series) but it's implied that the boys they used to be in ancient Japan have the same personalities aswell as when they were baby turtles at Stockgen.

I thought about those things and put them in my outline! :D I thought the Raph being lost was interesting but it was tough to keep that storyline without him basically falling 15 years behind his brothers on ninjitsu! The way I figured, it would be kind of cool just to have him lost for a while, like a year or two, and give him that taste of the outside world as well as be lost for enough time for it to color his view on the world early on in life. This way, when he meets Casey Jones again for the second time, it gives them kind of a complicated relationship because Splinter had some years to get through to his anger issues somewhat, while at the same time he may be a little antsy to explore outside the sewers because he's already been out there a bit.

Also, as you pointed out, it is kind of ironic that they went out of their way to create this in-story reason for Raph to be more hot-headed but so far he's probably the most calm version of him in a comic book. I'm sure they'll tap into that soon enough though...