Prediction: How will Shredder live to fight Yoshi once more?

[ToTheNines]

I'm hoping Splinter gets to return the favor to Saki for what he did long ago, but at this point it's totally unclear how it's gonna happen.

I'll go with... resurrection. It would answer (as far as the fates are concerned) Donatello's question of "why now?". Foot Mystics resurrect the most ruthless Foot Clan leader in history, Buddha (or whoever) takes note and has Yoshi and his son brought back to the world so as to answer Yoshi's prayers and kill the bastard once more.

Plus I just like the idea of zombie Shredder.

[Candy Kappa]

I hope it'll be an descendant, that Splinter mistakes for Saki and the vengeance plotting begins

[Kalel]

Im thinking it will be a complete retelling. The Splinter and Shredder rivalry will be a fresh start, which Im okay with. I think it will be really cool.

[ToTheNines]

Im thinking it will be a complete retelling. The Splinter and Shredder rivalry will be a fresh start, which Im okay with. I think it will be really cool.

*Pulls out copy of TMNT #5 and turns to page where Yoshi get's chopped*

It reads: "As Oroku Saki passed a final sentence on Hamato Yoshi and his four sons, Yoshi prayed. Prayed to Buddha... to all the powers in the universe... for justice. Prayed that he and his sons would be reunited someday... and that he would once again be able to face Oroku Saki - warrior to warrior."

On the next page: Yoshi: When we meet again, I will... destroy you.

Saki: Fool, we will never meet again. *schwip*

---

I certainly hope you're dead wrong. You can not write something like that and then not follow up on it.

[Archon_Turtle]

Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki were both reincarnated into Splinter. Being honor bound to fulfill his oath, Splinter takes his own life.

The Turtles are then led by.... Pizza Face!

kdhhQhqi_AE

[CyberCubed]

I hate to say it but it's very similar to how Ch'rell existed in Feudal Japan in the 4kids series. I hope he stays human and is just immortal or something.

[Abnormal Freak]

General Krang is Shredder and is modeled after Ch'rell. B)



...I hope that's not the case.

[Kalel]

*Pulls out copy of TMNT #5 and turns to page where Yoshi get's chopped*

It reads: "As Oroku Saki passed a final sentence on Hamato Yoshi and his four sons, Yoshi prayed. Prayed to Buddha... to all the powers in the universe... for justice. Prayed that he and his sons would be reunited someday... and that he would once again be able to face Oroku Saki - warrior to warrior."

On the next page: Yoshi: When we meet again, I will... destroy you.

Saki: Fool, we will never meet again. *schwip*

---

I certainly hope you're dead wrong. You can not write something like that and then not follow up on it.

I havent gotten a chance to read that issue. Then I hope Im wrong too. Will Nicks version go along with the comics?

[pihb]

I vote reincarnation. How can a saki descendent know about the saki/yoshi feud if it happened ages ago, and how could splinter hold it against a descendant?

[Matches Malone]

We do know that the Foot are Krang's rivals in this series which makes me wonder of possibly he or Utroms have something to do with it. Maybe Utroms encountered Shredder in Feudal Japan and put him into suspended animation? If not something like that, then I'm guessing reincarnation. But it is a little unfair of Karma to have Yoshi come back as a rat and Shredder come back as a (hopefully) Japanese man.

[Candy Kappa]

I vote reincarnation. How can a saki descendent know about the saki/yoshi feud if it happened ages ago, and how could splinter hold it against a descendant?

anger can cloud the mind

[Venom]

I voted for modern day descendant simply because that would give a realistic explanation for Yoshi/Splinter's quest for vengeance for his family's massacre at the hands of the ancient Oroku member.

It also gives us an explanation of how Shredder and Krang are rivals in this universe, if indeed they are.

[FearlessLeader]

I kind of really hope it's not time travel because thanks to J.J. Abrams I am actually getting sick of that used as a plot device :tlol:

That said I also hope it's a present day relative of Saki that maybe could be mystically connected to his ancestor. Kind of like what they did with Hattori in the Mirage comics, only obviously Saki would be a bad guy.

[Donnie]

Time Travel. It's an intro for the utroms and all other "other galaxy" type stuff.

Remember in the 2k3 Ch'rell was around in feudal Japan. This could very well be a re-working of that.

[Venom]

Time Travel. It's an intro for the utroms and all other "other galaxy" type stuff.

Remember in the 2k3 Ch'rell was around in feudal Japan. This could very well be a re-working of that.

I hope to God on high that it's not; I prefer my Shredders to be human.

[ToTheNines]

I voted for modern day descendant simply because that would give a realistic explanation for Yoshi/Splinter's quest for vengeance for his family's massacre at the hands of the ancient Oroku member.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. For starters, Splinter would have no right to have a vendetta against a descendant. And secondly, isn't the idea that every single member of the Oroku family is evil totally corny?

[AquaParade]

Here's what I'm starting to think...

Splinter only believes he was Yoshi, due to being programmed/brainwashed by Krang/Stockman. General Krang is trying to use Splinter in his war against the real Oroku Saki, and has therefor implanted memories in Splinters brain, so that they may fuel him enough to take down Saki.

[ToTheNines]

Here's what I'm starting to think...

Splinter only believes he was Yoshi, due to being programmed/brainwashed by Krang/Stockman. General Krang is trying to use Splinter in his war against the real Oroku Saki, and has therefor implanted memories in Splinters brain, so that they may fuel him enough to take down Saki.

Twisted as that would be, I would feel kinda cheated if they did that.

[pihb]

I am curious as to why Stockman wants the turtles so bad when Old Hob was exposed to the same ooze. There must be something else mixed in with the turtles where Old Hob's blood just won't due.

As for imprinted memories into Splinter, that plan would backfire because Splinter seeking that level of reveng wouldn't seperate the turtles and himself from the bad guys.

[ToTheNines]

I am curious as to why Stockman wants the turtles so bad when Old Hob was exposed to the same ooze. There must be something else mixed in with the turtles where Old Hob's blood just won't due.

Well they need Splinter back because he's got the psychotropic serum in his blood, and I'm pretty sure they want the turtles back in order to salvage mutagen, plus just get them off the street in case someone else captures them and traces them back to Stockgen.

[pihb]

Well they need Splinter back because he's got the psychotropic serum in his blood, and I'm pretty sure they want the turtles back in order to salvage mutagen, plus just get them off the street in case someone else captures them and traces them back to Stockgen.

Well in Raphael Micro it appears that Alopex has the same fighting serum that the turtles have. Lots of questions!!!! can't wait for #7 and Donatello

[ToTheNines]

Well in Raphael Micro it appears that Alopex has the same fighting serum that the turtles have. Lots of questions!!!! can't wait for #7 and Donatello

Yes, but Alopex is working for the Foot, not Stockgen.

[pihb]

Yes, but Alopex is working for the Foot, not Stockgen.

I got the opposite impression when they showed her in cages with other animals adn talking about her being a test subject. To me it seemed like Bebop and Rocksteady were hired thugs to "attack her" and they all worked for Stockgen trying to get the turtles back.

[ToTheNines]

Remember the very last page though?

[Toby Barrett]

Last page in question, if you don't. (http://s16.postimage.org/9hx335c3n/image.jpg)

[Oculus Orbus]

Here's what I'm starting to think...

Splinter only believes he was Yoshi, due to being programmed/brainwashed by Krang/Stockman. General Krang is trying to use Splinter in his war against the real Oroku Saki, and has therefor implanted memories in Splinters brain, so that they may fuel him enough to take down Saki.

As much as I wish it was something like that, I highly doubt it. In my opinion, reincarnation sort of opened the pandora's box, so I would expect the plot to keep going that way.

But because a man can dream, I hope we get a non mysthic explanation for the turtle's origin at some point, so Shredder can just be a human.

[marcelangelo]

That just doesn't make any sense to me. For starters, Splinter would have no right to have a vendetta against a descendant. And secondly, isn't the idea that every single member of the Oroku family is evil totally corny?

you see if that is this scenario is the case in idw' future issues then you have to understand that the samurai had a very strict honor system and after reading hordes of usagi yojimbo(which are very spot on iterations on life in feudal japan) comics there is no doubt that a descendent sort of inherits the blame for a dishonorment to another warrior...but then again, they are no samurai...in fact they are shinobi(ninja) who were not thought high of by society at all....but accompanying the many sloppy mistakes in regards to the life of a ninja clan already found in issue 5 this one thing should not ruin everthing for me;)....let's just wait and see...matches, I really liked your version and I haven't thought about something like that at all;)bravo!

[Hermano Dyvas]

To me Old Hob being a reincarnation of Saki still makes sense. It would explain why the alleycat is there during their mutation. Granted, that doesn't really need an explanation since they're in an actual alley but simple coincidence isn't as thrilling as fate.

[ToTheNines]

To me Old Hob being a reincarnation of Saki still makes sense. It would explain why the alleycat is there during their mutation. Granted, that doesn't really need an explanation since they're in an actual alley but simple coincidence isn't as thrilling as fate.

But... I'm dying to see Splinter take a sword at go ape-s**t on Shredder's jugulars.

If Hob is Saki, Splinter's revenge just won't be as fulfilling to me. First of all Hob wouldn't even remember doing what he did if it is him. Plus I just feel like Hob has a good enough dynamic with Splinter as is, that fire doesn't really need any more fuel at this point.

[Venom]

That just doesn't make any sense to me. For starters, Splinter would have no right to have a vendetta against a descendant. And secondly, isn't the idea that every single member of the Oroku family is evil totally corny?

Did Saki have a right to kill Yoshi's kids rather than Yoshi himself? No.

For your second question, I did not say nor imply that every single Oroku is evil; seeing as Saki lived several hundred years ago, though, it would seem plausible that a few bad seeds fell from the Oroku pod over the years.

[Redeemer]

I'm hoping Splinter gets to return the favor to Saki for what he did long ago, but at this point it's totally unclear how it's gonna happen.

I'll go with... resurrection. It would answer (as far as the fates are concerned) Donatello's question of "why now?". Foot Mystics resurrect the most ruthless Foot Clan leader in history, Buddha (or whoever) takes note and has Yoshi and his son brought back to the world so as to answer Yoshi's prayers and kill the bastard once more.

Plus I just like the idea of zombie Shredder.

In all honest I still think that the utroms saved Yoshi and his sons and put them into animal bodies sense theirs was destroyed.

But if its ch'rll as the shredder I will kill somebody!!!!!!

[Hermano Dyvas]

But... I'm dying to see Splinter take a sword at go ape-s**t on Shredder's jugulars.

If Hob is Saki, Splinter's revenge just won't be as fulfilling to me. First of all Hob wouldn't even remember doing what he did if it is him. Plus I just feel like Hob has a good enough dynamic with Splinter as is, that fire doesn't really need any more fuel at this point.

All Hob has to get is a shot of that pychotropicsomething drug and all his memories will return like Splinter's. This would of course have to happen before revenge on Hobshredder can be remotely fulfilling.

But hey, this is just a theory I'm stating, it's not necessarily what I want.

[ToTheNines]

Did Saki have a right to kill Yoshi's kids rather than Yoshi himself? No.

You are so far off here. Killing someone's sons in front of them is an effective way to get back at them (even if it was not an equal retaliation for Yoshi embarrassing Saki). Killing someone's great-great-great-great grandson doesn't do sh*t.

For your second question, I did not say nor imply that every single Oroku is evil; seeing as Saki lived several hundred years ago, though, it would seem plausible that a few bad seeds fell from the Oroku pod over the years.

I still don't like it. Unless it was like an evil version of the Gosei clan, like someone else said.

In all honest I still think that the utroms saved Yoshi and his sons and put them into animal bodies sense theirs was destroyed.

Looks like they missed by a few hundred years.

All Hob has to get is a shot of that pychotropicsomething drug and all his memories will return like Splinter's. This would of course have to happen before revenge on Hobshredder can be remotely fulfilling.

I guess. Still just wanna see Hob be his own guy.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, I'm definitely hoping for a Shredder who is human. I love how disgusted he is with the turtles in some mediums. I get a kick out of it whenever he calls them "freaks". Poor guys!

[FearlessLeader]

What if it was something like the original Saki took Yoshi's threat to him seriously and through some sort of mystic means knew his old enemy and his sons would one day return.

What if Saki was so furious of being cheated out of actually destroying Yoshi that he obsesses about him coming back and uses magical means to try to predict when this will happen.

Then it could go one of two ways either Saki could find a way to make himself immortal or it could become a family tradition for the eldest son to train in case of Yoshi's return and maybe they even have some sort mystical means to detect it.

*laughs*

Sometimes it's fun just coming up with crazy ideas!

[Uki]

I kinda like the immortality angle, but who knows? This series has certainly packed the twists and surprises in for me so far...! :)

[ToTheNines]

From the bullet point of TMNT #10's solicitation: "The long awaited return of THE SHREDDER! A re-match 600 years in the making!"

Sounds like we can rule out the "descendant" option. Thank God.

[CyberCubed]

I hope he's not Ch'rell either. Only Utroms or demons live that long.

[Toby Barrett]

Mayhaps with some foot mystic tampering, Shredder is undead?

[ToTheNines]

Any new theories after number 7? Krang seems to have a lot on his plate in outer space, I wonder what could be his beef with a bunch of ninjas on Earth.

[Genesis]

Will Nick's version go along with the comics?I should hope not, and anyway, I highly doubt it.
Here's what I'm starting to think...

Splinter only believes he was Yoshi, due to being programmed/brainwashed by Krang/Stockman. General Krang is trying to use Splinter in his war against the real Oroku Saki, and has therefor implanted memories in Splinters brain, so that they may fuel him enough to take down Saki.
That'd be pretty awesome, besides far more acceptable to me than reincarnation. I would be surprised if they took such a route, though it would greatly improve my perception on this continuity.

[ToTheNines]

Straight from Tom's fingers: Shredder is not an Utrom.

Man, I'm dying to read #10.

[CyberCubed]

Well Shredder can still be an immortal tengu demon. :p

[AquaParade]

Straight from Tom's fingers: Shredder is not an Utrom.

Man, I'm dying to read #10.

Interesting! I'm glad to hear that. Would you mind telling me where Tom wrote this?

EDIT: Nevervmind! "Donatello Micro-Series #3..." thread, for anyone interested.

[ToTheNines]

Now that we've read the synopsis for Splinter's Micro, I think it's safe to say we can rule out the "descendant" option for good.

We're slowly knocking out theories. The first 4 on the poll still remain possible.

[CyberCubed]

He's a tengu demon like in the 4kids series.

[ToTheNines]

Well fellas, I've pretty much narrowed this down to "reincarnation" being the only viable answer.

Seeing as how Saki had a scar over his left eye in Feudal Japan, then the modern ninja who I'm almost certain becomes Shredder had no facial markings but gets a brand new scar over his left eye, that pretty much rules out time travel, resurrection, and immortality.

And since we've already ruled out him being an Utrom or Saki's descendant, I'd say that makes him the reincarnation of Oroku Saki. This was the most likely scenario from the start, I just voted "resurrection" because I thought that'd be cooler and less "deus ex machina", as Donatello put it.

[Toby Barrett]

That is, unless this scarred ninja character has just been a huge red herring.. Part of me thinks that this is the case, but it is looking as though another reincarnation is the answer here.

[ToTheNines]

You could be right, but his fight with Leo screamed "Shredder". And he's already stolen a lot of past Shred-head dialogue...

"The rat. Kill it." & "Vile Rodent!" come to mind.

[Toby Barrett]

Yeah, he certainly has been talking like Shredder. I just wonder, if he is indeed a reincarnation, how he came into being leader of the Foot, and how he remembers Hamato Yoshi.

IF he remembers Hamato Yoshi.

[ToTheNines]

Maybe he's been experimenting with the Psychotropic Serum?

[Toby Barrett]

HNG, I really need issue 10 like right now! I want to know! XD

Did the Foot steal the psychotropic serum? I thought it was only the mutagen and turtles they took..

[ToTheNines]

They stole both. That's how Alopex was created.

[Toby Barrett]

Oh. I was under the impression they only injected Alopex with mutagen, since she said she didn't remember much before the change.

[ToTheNines]

Stockman said she had to have it in #8. She probably doesn't remember much because she isn't the reincarnation of any human.

Or she lied to Raph about it, like she did about pretty much everything else.

[Donnie]

Stockman said she had to have it in #8. She probably doesn't remember much because she isn't the reincarnation of any human.

Or she lied to Raph about it, like she did about pretty much everything else.

I'm still betting she's lying completely.

[ToTheNines]

Alright, after reading #9 I have some new views.

===The Shredder, as seen on the last page of today's ish, is not Oroku Saki nor the reincarnation of Saki. (I like this theory instantly because it would mean Karai is not an Oroku). The "sai ninja" with the scar over his left eye was just a Foot ninja who Shredder chose to test the pychotropic serum on, and upon being tested, realized he is the reincarnation of Oroku Saki.

Eventually, "sai ninja" will take take his rightful place as The Shredder by offing the old bastard wearing the armor right now. This puts him at odds with Karai, and the Clan splits into 2 factions over it.===

My main reason for thinking this is the fact that it wouldn't make sense for "sai ninja"/"Scarface" to be out fighting Leo in nothing but a black suit and wristguards, and then come back to Foot HQ and put the Shredder armor on just to chill. Plus this current Shredder has no visible facial scars... so I'm thinking they can't be the same person.

[Andrew NDB]

The most logical scenario does seem to be the scarred Foot offing the current Shredder and taking his place. And that scarred Foot is a reincarnation of Oroku Saki.

The only thing that I'm skeptical about is that I don't think they would have the Shredder (or more specifically, the guy who becomes Shredder) be anyone other than Oroku Saki in the present day. Unless the innate Oroku Saki personality just takes over and he casts aside whatever current name he has... which is possible.

At any rate, as long as the Shredder is human I'm happy.

[ToTheNines]

The only thing that I'm skeptical about is that I don't think they would have the Shredder (or more specifically, the guy who becomes Shredder) be anyone other than Oroku Saki in the present day. Unless the innate Oroku Saki personality just takes over and he casts aside whatever current name he has... which is possible.

Splinter cast his and his sons old names aside for the sake of audience familiarity, why can't Shredder do it with his new one? :P

[Galactus]

For him to cast whatever his current name is in favour of his original name he'd have to remember it. If (as we are led to believe) Splinter has full memories of his previous life due to the experiments carried out on his brain by Stockgen then it's likely he'll only have vague intuitions like the turtles.

Unless of course he remembers due to meditation and it's come back to him gradualy over the years whereas since the turtles have only been...(I want to say sentient but it seems animals are sentient in the IDW continuity) advanced for fifteen months then maybe they haven't time for their memories to fully form yet. It seems Leo is remembering more with some frequency. Of course if that's the case then what will happen when the turtles start getting their memories back, surely the unique aspects of their former lives should resurface, right?

Hmmm.

[Andrew NDB]

Splinter cast his and his sons old names aside for the sake of audience familiarity, why can't Shredder do it with his new one? :P

He can, of course, but I don't think anyone at IDW would (or maybe even should) want to establish a non-Oroku Saki as the preeminent Shredder in the present day.

[Killer Moth]

Well Shredder can still be an immortal tengu demon. :p

Oh, NOEZ!

Reincarnation or grandson replacement would probably make the most sense, since that corresponds with the Turtles or the series' setting. However, I'll go with immortality, as A) Archie Shredder was said to desire it and B) selling his soul to whomever could grant that. It might be in-character for IDW Saki. His family isn't in the picture in IDW, as of this writing, so it isn't like there is anything holding him back, is there?

Or another theory, he's a construct held together by the magical worms. That way, you can do the immortality with a nod to Mirage Shredder's resurrection method.

[n-zero]

I wonder if Shredder has discovered some secret of resurrection or immortality. This would allow the Turtles to kill him frequently, but also for him to stick around as a recurring arch-nemesis.

[Matches Malone]

I'm not entirely sure which it is, but I personally am hoping for immortality at this point. It also does seem the most straight forward. rather than reincarnation where you have to come up with a way for Oroku Saki to happen to reincarnate at the same time (we don't even know what his fate would have been in Feudal Japan) as well as why he gets to come back as a human and not a rat or turtle. Plus, I feel like it's hard enough to accept all 5 of them reincarnated, so I don't really want to see more people reincarnated. It just makes things too muddled. However, I hope immortality would allow him only to live forever (or extended period of time), not unlike Ra's Al Ghul, and is still able to be killed. That would be a little too one-sided (not to mention unsatisfying) if the turtles can never defeat him.

[ToTheNines]

Alright, after reading #9 I have some new views.

===The Shredder, as seen on the last page of today's ish, is not Oroku Saki nor the reincarnation of Saki. (I like this theory instantly because it would mean Karai is not an Oroku). The "sai ninja" with the scar over his left eye was just a Foot ninja who Shredder chose to test the pychotropic serum on, and upon being tested, realized he is the reincarnation of Oroku Saki.

Eventually, "sai ninja" will take take his rightful place as The Shredder by offing the old bastard wearing the armor right now. This puts him at odds with Karai, and the Clan splits into 2 factions over it.===

My main reason for thinking this is the fact that it wouldn't make sense for "sai ninja"/"Scarface" to be out fighting Leo in nothing but a black suit and wristguards, and then come back to Foot HQ and put the Shredder armor on just to chill. Plus this current Shredder has no visible facial scars... so I'm thinking they can't be the same person.

Like I said in the other thread, my updated version of this theory is that the "sai ninja" was just a regular Foot Ninja, but when Splinter clawed at his face, he introduced the psychotropic serum into his bloodstream. This made him realize that he was the reincarnation of Oroku Saki.

I like this theory because it ties Splinter into Saki's return to the modern world.

[Lampy]

Like I said in the other thread, my updated version of this theory is that the "sai ninja" was just a regular Foot Ninja, but when Splinter clawed at his face, he introduced the psychotropic serum into his bloodstream. This made him realize that he was the reincarnation of Oroku Saki.

I like this theory because it ties Splinter into Saki's return to the modern world.

This makes a lot of sense to me. i always thought that "scarface" was shredder. everything about him since the first issue reminded me of shredder. however... i'm not sure the foot would ever just hand over the top rank over to scarface. he'd have to prove it. this works best for the reincarnation angle, which totally makes more sense than my theory of there being another shredder die for scarface to take his place.

i'd have to agree that having some other ninja be Shredder besides Saki would not be ideal. that's like rebooting batman and changing bruce wayne's name into some other guy. reincarnated or otherwise he'd still have to be Oroku Saki.

[Matches Malone]

I could be wrong but I feel like the reincarnation theory should be out the window if you've read #10.

When they do the reveal of The Shredder at the end of the issue, you can clearly see it is Oroku Saki himself, not him reincarnated as another person. The scarred ninja seems like a red herring. I do admit though, that if he was simply resurrected, we'll then have TWO scar-faced Foot ninjas which is pretty weird. Perhaps when he was resurrected, his face was healed, and Splinter RE-scarred him. Seems pretty contrived though. Hmm...

[corvus]

He's just resurrected. He said he came back and looks exactly like he did in feudal Japan. I have a feeling his war with Krang is a really big deal and its why they brought Saki back.

[Matches Malone]

@corvus, grammar is your friend! At first I thought you were calling The Shredder a "ninja dumbass" and that would have really hurt his feelings!

[corvus]

Didn't make my signature. I found it and thought it was funny. Shredder being a hipster and all. But now that you pointed it out, I'm gonna have to make one with proper grammar and I'll probably put thick rimmed glasses on him too(likely using a different pic) since I've nothing better to do.

[Lampy]

I could be wrong but I feel like the reincarnation theory should be out the window if you've read #10.

When they do the reveal of The Shredder at the end of the issue, you can clearly see it is Oroku Saki himself, not him reincarnated as another person. The scarred ninja seems like a red herring. I do admit though, that if he was simply resurrected, we'll then have TWO scar-faced Foot ninjas which is pretty weird. Perhaps when he was resurrected, his face was healed, and Splinter RE-scarred him. Seems pretty contrived though. Hmm...

i've read #10... but until we get a confirmation that he was NOT reincarnated and is the same exact person (flesh and blood) as the one in feudal japan... reincarnation is still possible. the scarface ninja never revealed his facial features so who's to say he didn't look like saki. i understand that there were different artists who drew saki in #10 and #5... but the scars just don't match. this recent Saki's scar runs the length of his forehead and the ancient saki just had his eye slashed and stops mid-forehead. reincarnation is still possible with ToTheNine's theory. and with reincarnation used for the Turtles and Splinter... it can't completely be written off until proven otherwise. scarface can still be the reincarnated saki.

[corvus]

I thought it was weird that his helmet completely concealed his scar..just the way he was drawn I guess. In comic books if a character has the same hair and defining feature from artist to artist they're the same character. I mean in X-men the amount of cables body that's cybernetic and which eye is glowing seem to change constantly. Also "scarface" was also wearing a totally different uniform than the other foot when he threw Leo off the roof, note the lack of bug eyes or hood.

[Lampy]

in comic books more than one person can look the same as well... mere coincidence or heritage. i understand that the resemblance is striking... but it can still happen. after all... it is a comic book. and anybody can alter their clothing... maybe he ranked up over the course of the issues. as far as i can remember... the character we think to be scarface since appearing in #2 never had bug-eye uniform. who knows? i'm pretty sure the foot's clothing styles vary in rank or at least seems that way to me. in a story arc that relies heavily on reincarnation.. it would make sense to continue that route. but only time will tell and i may be wrong. resurrection isn't a bad idea either. until then... i'll stick by the theory that makes most sense to me.

[corvus]

It was hooded. I don't think that's scarface, I think people are just making unnecessary connections. In Leonardos issue the foot ninja who overpowers him doesn't even have a weapon and he wore heavy gauntlets. I mean he's obviously shredder. The ninja splinter attacked was probably just a coincidence.

[Lampy]

It was hooded. I don't think that's scarface, I think people are just making unnecessary connections. In Leonardos issue the foot ninja who overpowers him doesn't even have a weapon and he wore heavy gauntlets. I mean he's obviously shredder. The ninja splinter attacked was probably just a coincidence.

i'm pretty sure people can change clothing, get promoted, and ditch a weapon. so you're saying the scarfaced ninja that splinter attacked and the scarfaced ninja that whooped leonardo's butt may not be the same person. there's just more than one foot ninja with scarred right eyes... plus the shredder (who also has a scarred eye) because they weren't using the same weapon? we're just making unnecessary connections between two seemingly similar ninjas with the same speech style. evidence IMPLIES that these three ninja (scarface sai ninja, scarface gaunlet ninja, and shredder) are the same person.

EDIT: *left eye...

[Galactus]

Straight from Tom's fingers: Shredder is not an Utrom.

Ah yes, not an Utrom but could he be a Kraang? Someone should check his belly or is it all chest cavities now?

I wouldn't mind a mundane answer like it being a grandson with the same name. Maybe channeling some of his ancestors memories via meditation.

I quite like the science vs faith dynamic between Don and Leo in the IDW book and as it currently stands it looks like Leo is 100% dead on whereas a something like the above explanation means that both are right and wrong.

[corvus]

i'm pretty sure people can change clothing, get promoted, and ditch a weapon. so you're saying the scarfaced ninja that splinter attacked and the scarfaced ninja that whooped leonardo's butt may not be the same person. there's just more than one foot ninja with scarred right eyes... plus the shredder (who also has a scarred eye) because they weren't using the same weapon? we're just making unnecessary connections between two seemingly similar ninjas with the same speech style. evidence IMPLIES that these three ninja (scarface sai ninja, scarface gaunlet ninja, and shredder) are the same person.

EDIT: *left eye...

A foot with a higher skill level gauntlets and a different different uniform, a scar and overpowers Leo in his one shot(a homage to the mirage issue) is obviously Oroku Saki. A ninja in a low rank uniform, wielding sais and getting caught off guard by April O'Neil who isn't shown with a wound on his face later on is not quite as obvious.

[Lampy]

A foot with a higher skill level gauntlets and a different different uniform, a scar and overpowers Leo in his one shot(a homage to the mirage issue) is obviously Oroku Saki. A ninja in a low rank uniform, wielding sais and getting caught off guard by April O'Neil who isn't shown with a wound on his face later on is not quite as obvious.

Which brings me back to ToTheNines' theory... splinter did not scratch that ninja until after they escaped after their confrontation with April. His theory says that when splinter scratched the ninja... it released the psychotropic serum into his bloodstream... thereby giving him his memory back. After that... having regained his memory (and memory of his skill)... he could have ranked up faster. Make sense.?

[corvus]

I get it. I just think it was kind of proven wrong when Shredder was revealed to be Oroku Saki in the flesh.

EDIT: unless of course you guys are right, but I think its weird for the reincarnated one to look exactly like him, scar and all..even if there is an explanation for the scar.

[ToTheNines]

I get it. I just think it was kind of proven wrong when Shredder was revealed to be Oroku Saki in the flesh.

EDIT: unless of course you guys are right, but I think its weird for the reincarnated one to look exactly like him, scar and all..even if there is an explanation for the scar.

I wouldn't say he looks "exactly" like him. But look at the 2k3 cartoon... The original Oroku Saki looked exactly like the disguise Ch'rell used.

[Lampy]

I wouldn't say he looks "exactly" like him. But look at the 2k3 cartoon... The original Oroku Saki looked exactly like the disguise Ch'rell used.

I don't think the ch'rell thing works here 'Nines. The ch'rell body was just an exoskeleton. I think Corvus has a point here about the resemblance. But as I've suggested earlier... maybe it could just be a huge coincidence that the foot soldier looked like Saki. Or it could have been that he could have inherited the facial resemblance by genetics, saki's descendant maybe? That combines two theories: the descendant's body hosting saki's spirit and ToTheNines' theory of the psychotropic serum... in short... I have no idea what Tom and Eastman are planning to do with this Saki.:tgrin:

[ToTheNines]

Two different scenarios, but still the closest comparison we have in the realm of TMNT.

Anyways, here's a side-by-side of Feudal Saki and Modern Saki:

http://sz0024.wc.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/IMG_20120605_103636.jpg?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=314520&part=2

Not the best shot (maybe someone could one-up me?) but I think they look different enough. The scars are of different lengths and angles, Feudal Shredder has more of a hooked nose, and there's some subtle differences between their hair and cranial structure. Mainly, I feel like Duncan's Shredder looks more youthful.

Of course, that could all be chalked up to the use of 2 different artists, but that was probably the point.

[Toby Barrett]

Yeah, I'm siding on the theory that it's just two different artists' interpretations. Sorta like how Duncan's Alopex is much more masculine than she was depicted in the Raph micro. XD

[ToTheNines]

Yeah, I'm siding on the theory that it's just two different artists' interpretations. Sorta like how Duncan's Alopex is much more masculine than she was depicted in the Raph micro. XD

So you're still sticking with resurrection then?

I'd be fine with that (heck, it's what I voted in the poll), but my only qualm with it would be "scarface"/sai ninja feels like a totally pointless waste of a character.

[corvus]

Well like I said. I don't think the ninja with sais who got attacked by splinter is the same one who threw Leo off the roof. Look all you want, in that flashback(issue 2-3) he doesn't have a wound on his face afterwards, maybe they were minor scratches. So the way I see it is we're at two coincidences either the new shredder looks like the feudal shredder or an unnamed foot ninja got his left eye attacked.

[Toby Barrett]

So you're still sticking with resurrection then?

Yup! He said himself that he recently came back from a long death.

[Matches Malone]

Two different scenarios, but still the closest comparison we have in the realm of TMNT.

Anyways, here's a side-by-side of Feudal Saki and Modern Saki:

http://sz0024.wc.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/IMG_20120605_103636.jpg?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=314520&part=2

Not the best shot (maybe someone could one-up me?) but I think they look different enough. The scars are of different lengths and angles, Feudal Shredder has more of a hooked nose, and there's some subtle differences between their hair and cranial structure. Mainly, I feel like Duncan's Shredder looks more youthful.

Of course, that could all be chalked up to the use of 2 different artists, but that was probably the point.

Besides the debatable artistic interpretations of Oroku Saki, Splinter also recognized his voice before he unmasked himself. I think recognizable voice and face kind of seal the deal that this is the original Saki from Feudal Japan.

[ToTheNines]

So, looks like we won't find out the truth until sometime in 2013. Kind of a bummer, but I'm glad they're making a mini out of it. This would have bogged down the ongoing, since it's kind of a big deal.

[corvus]

It's definitely Saki and he said he came back from a "long death". It's resurrection, we just don't know the details.

[ToTheNines]

In all honest I still think that the utroms saved Yoshi and his sons and put them into animal bodies sense theirs was destroyed.

But if its ch'rll as the shredder I will kill somebody!!!!!!

This dude called the QNA thing like 4 years before #50 (before #150 retconned it).