Conservative states with higher pregnancy rates

[Sage Ninja]

http://www.everydayhealth.com/sexual-health/0207/are-conservative-states-sex-ed-programs-failing-to-make-the-grade.aspx?xid=aol_eh-sex_2_20120206_&aolcat=HLT&icid=maing-grid7%7Chp-desktop%7Cdl13%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D133567

TUESDAY, Feb. 07, 2012 — 39.1 out of every 1,000 — that’s how many teenage girls gave birth in 2009 in the United States, according to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Compared to other industrialized countries, this number is pretty lofty: Live Science reports that in the United Kingdom, 24 out of every 1,000 teen girls gave birth that year, and only 4 out of every 1,000 had a baby in the Netherlands. But what about here in the United States — do birth rates vary state by state?

Yep, and research suggests that this may be the rule of thumb: The more conservative the state, the higher the teen birth rate. In a new Washington University study published in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, researchers looked at the birth rates of girls aged 15 to 17 living in 24 states from 1997 to 2005. Interestingly, Arkansas (which was recently ranked as the 10th most conservative state in the nation by Gallup) had the highest teen birth rate (at 34.8 births per 1,000 teen girls). Texas, Mississippi, and Oklahoma (all above-average in conservatism) also rank high. However, New Hampshire, which tends to swing to the left, boasted the lowest rate during this time period (at 9.7).

While these stats may seem to contradict logic (conservative kids have less sex, right?), the researchers note a number of issues that could be at play — and it could have something to do with the states’ sex ed programs.

Is Unsatisfactory Sexual Education to Blame?
"State adolescent births vary widely, and these disparities across states should be acknowledged as a major public health concern," researcher Patricia Cavazos-Rehg, PhD, told Live Science.

While the researchers studied the birth rates for each state, they also looked at the state’s sexual education practices — whether schools taught things such as STD prevention and condom efficacy — as well as each state’s level of conservatism, religiosity, and abortion policies.

Not surprisingly, conservative states tend to take a more conservative stance on sex education — some still focusing on abstinence-only-until-marriage programs instead of sexuality-based programs (14 of the 16 southern states, which also tend to be the most conservative, continue to concentrate on abstinence programs, according to a 2010 report from the Sexuality Information and Education Council). “Our findings provide evidence that increased sexuality education within school curricula is associated with lower adolescent birthrates,” the researchers wrote.

However, right-swinging states’ sex ed programs may not be the only factor: The fact that these states are more conservative and tend to be more religious suggest that the rates may also be related to more conservative views on abortion. “Could it be that, despite sex education, girls in both conservative and liberal states are getting pregnant at about the same rate, and that the girls in Arkansas are carrying their babies to term, perhaps as a result of higher religiosity, a lack of access to abortion services, or both?” asks Live Science.

The researchers say they need to investigate further before they can answer that question absolutely — but that these findings can help shape decisions about education programs in the future. “Though it still remains unclear as to what 'truly effective' sex education is, what we now know is that any future evaluations of sex education must consider the effects of sociopolitical characteristics in comprehensive analyses," Cavazos-Rehg said.

well now, who da thunk it?

[Jester]

There's a difference between teen pregnancy rates and teen birth rates. Conservative states, like the second to last paragraph says, see abortion as more taboo, and thus the BIRTH RATE would probably be higher. To know if teen PREGNANCY rates were higher or lower we need pre-abortion figures.

Like the last paragraph says (and I love how it practically un-writes the article) more study is needed, with more accurate numbers.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Question-does sex education make any real difference in overall social behavior? Certainly you don't need to go to class to know that sex=babies, or about the existence of venereal diseases.

[Katie]

Oh boy


Wanna know why birth rates are high among teens in "conservative" states? It's not because our (yes I am a southerner and no I'm not a Republican) sex ed classes are biased or inadequate. Every dumb f*ck teen knows having sex can get you knocked up. It's because sex is something you don't discuss...and if you do ask you mother to put you on birth control you never hear the end of it.

Kids down here aren't freaks who think you gotta wait for marriage.....or don't know anything about sex... jesus, media.

[Jester]

I'd almost say that in some places, there ain't much to do. I know teens in my town just sit in parking lots...for fun.

I'm sure if that's one way kids "have fun" sex is probably high on the list of pass times, too.

[Barkworm]

I guess the sex "education" is a huge part of the problem.
SWlbN2b1PGg

[Jester]

Well it was a good run. So long thread. We barely knew ye.

[ToTheNines]

Kids like to hump. Whatcha gon' do?

[Leo656]

:lol: That's classic, TTN, I needed that laugh today. Wasn't expecting that. :)

[Jester]

Agreed when I first read that, I almost fell out.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, same here. I don't know what to make of the article. It sounds pretty inaccurate if it's stating that more study needs to be done. Maybe some of the sex ed programs don't focus on abortion, but I remember from my own school days that we were taught about abstinence and condoms. That was it. There was never talk about abortion either. Still, we learned a lot about STDs and what could happen if we acquired them. It was actually very informative, and I really liked the person who talked about it. She seemed very well-informed about it and mostly focused on STDs because she said that anyone could survive being pregnant.

[Candy Kappa]

we did not have a well informed sex-ed class.

I was scared for a long time that things where gonna rot and fall off due to being uncircumcised.

Gotta love fanatics doing sex-ed, and this wasn't a random lady doing those classes. It was our freaking regular teacher, never liked that woman.

[Redeemer]

http://www.everydayhealth.com/sexual-health/0207/are-conservative-states-sex-ed-programs-failing-to-make-the-grade.aspx?xid=aol_eh-sex_2_20120206_&aolcat=HLT&icid=maing-grid7%7Chp-desktop%7Cdl13%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D133567



well now, who da thunk it?

According to these statements the premise could also be made that Southeren States have higher pregnancy rates.

[gobo]

Oh, THAT kinda "conversative state"... :P

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Oh, THAT kinda "conversative state"... :P

Where they have lots of conversations...

[Spitfire]

I guess the sex "education" is a huge part of the problem.
SWlbN2b1PGg

"I don't have any proof it's better I just know it worked for me!". And that guy is a governor. Genius.

Reminds me a bit of this. Skip to around the end if you want to see the best quote. "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the senate."
IjR7AWSmI6o

[Jester]

Ahh, that's one of my senators. When I watched the movie, I face palmed.

But of course only southern politicians say incredibly stupid things, right?

Oh...and by the by, abstinence does work. It's abstinence only education that has issues. Though Perry's right...ish...he still sounds like an idiot because he doesn't realize the questioner is asking about teaching abstinence and not actually practicing it.

[pannoni1]

I'm not surprised, as people get married sooner in those states plus with less of an emphasis on career and urban life compared with other, more progressive states, leads to such a higher pregnancy rate. Gays are also more taboo in those states as well.

[Barkworm]

Oh...and by the by, abstinence does work. It's abstinence only education that has issues. Though Perry's right...ish...he still sounds like an idiot because he doesn't realize the questioner is asking about teaching abstinence and not actually practicing it.
I'm sorry Jester, but saying abstinence works is like saying you'll never be in a car accident if you don't drive. Of course if you don't do something that has any risks to it, you'll be safe but for the vast majority of people it's not a satisfactory solution. In addition to that, it is only an option for extremely religious people because the reasoning behind it wouldn't make sense to anyone without a religious background.

[Jester]

Wanting to wait to have sex until you've met "The One" only makes sense from a religious stand point? It may be pushed harder in those circles, but I'm sure there are others outside the religious community who practice sexual abstinence until they are in a monogamous sexual relationship.

[Hero]

Love Education should be encouraged more than Sex Education.

All we had (and still happens today) in UK education is somebody handing out different sexual prophylactics for everyone to pass around with a lecture on how they are used. No encouragement of values, waiting for 'the one', pride in staying 'pure', Abstinence, self respect, or dealing with peer pressure. The message we got was "We are old enough to and can sleep around, so we should!".

===HERO

[Barkworm]

It may be pushed harder in those circles, but I'm sure there are others outside the religious community who practice sexual abstinence until they are in a monogamous sexual relationship.
The way I see it, abstinence is usually connected to the idea of "waiting till marriage" and in that context marriage is always a religious concept.

[plastroncafe]

It's more than a little heteronormative to assume that everyone should wait until marriage, given that the US doesn't recognize the unions of a minority of people who can have sex and never have to worry about an unplanned pregnancy.

Though, I do have to say that every time a religious group bangs the "abstinence only" drum I chuckle, because according to them you can get pregnant without having sex. It happened once, who's to say it couldn't happen again?

[gobo]

I'm sure there are others outside the religious community who practice sexual abstinence until they are in a monogamous sexual relationship.
Yup .

[BubblyShell22]

The way I see it, it's more about kids thinking they're invincible. No matter what you say to them about sex and the dangers of it, they're going to do it anyway because they don't care. They don't want to listen to authority, and I highly doubt any of them even pay attention during these little lectures. So, to blame the sex ed programs is just a way for people to find a scapegoat instead of realizing that kids today just don't care what authority figures have to say.

[Barkworm]

Oh, another kid hater. How original.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm not a kid hater, Barkworm. I never said I hated kids in that post. I'm just pointing out that kids today don't care what adults say about anything and will go ahead and do the opposite of whatever they're told not to do. It's the sad reality of society today whether you choose to admit it or not. Sure, not all kids are like that, but a majority of them are.

[Spitfire]

I'm not a kid hater, Barkworm. I never said I hated kids in that post. I'm just pointing out that kids today don't care what adults say about anything and will go ahead and do the opposite of whatever they're told not to do. It's the sad reality of society today whether you choose to admit it or not. Sure, not all kids are like that, but a majority of them are.

Kids have always been like that, it's called being a teenager. Teenagers acted no different now then they always did. Rebellion comes with being a teenager and even if their parents didn't know their kid was doing it they were doing it. I'm pretty sure the number of kids who lied to their parents is much higher then the ones who didn't across any generation.

Blindly listening to advice and never making mistakes on your own is exactly what we don't need. People need to make mistakes sometimes. It's how we learn.

[Katie]

I'm not surprised, as people get married sooner in those states plus with less of an emphasis on career and urban life compared with other, more progressive states, leads to such a higher pregnancy rate. Gays are also more taboo in those states as well.

Wow. Never been in the South have you.

Less of an emphasis on career? Glad to know the rest of the country thinks no one south of Indiana has the drive or motivation to be successful. Guess we all just sit on the front porch and drink our sweet tea and chew on some hay while the day passes....

Urban life? Guess Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Nashville, Little Rock, New Orleans, etc. Aren't urban enough? I grew up in Huntsville, AL.......don't know why Huntsville is a special place? Google it.

Not Progressive? :roll: again, we aren't sitting in the dark ages. I went to college and everything. Golly! And I'm a mixed race person in Alabama whose parents grew up during Civil Rights times. Damn! Guess its only because I can "pass" that I succeed. Or maybe it could have been because of affirmative action, right?

I know more gay, lesbian, bi, and transgendered people than straight ones. And they aren't living in fear of being lynched. And seriously. Have you heard of Key West? Or New Orleans? I love watching the shoe dropping outside La ti da on New Year's eve.

I hate when people take the stereotypes of the South which are presented in the media as the gospel truth. At least come visit and see for yourself.

[Jester]

*hitches up his over-alls and spits a massive wad of chaw into his spittoon*
Yep.

[Barkworm]

I'm not a kid hater, Barkworm. I never said I hated kids in that post. I'm just pointing out that kids today don't care what adults say about anything and will go ahead and do the opposite of whatever they're told not to do. It's the sad reality of society today whether you choose to admit it or not. Sure, not all kids are like that, but a majority of them are.
You do realize that you sound like a bitter 90 year old? As someone who actually works with kids I know that their values have changed somewhat compared to, lets say the 1950s. It doesn't mean that all kids are inconsiderate rebels.

Back to the topic of teen pregnancy, I believe it is usually connected to the kids' parents and their overall education. I'm at a school for "smart" kids (i.e. kids who want to go to college afterwards) and cases of teenage pregnancy at schools like that are VERY rare. Every teacher who is not deaf or blind can figure out that they do sleep around but it seems like they are more careful with sexual prophylactics than their less ambitious peers. Teenage pregnancies are a lot more common at schools without college entrance exams here.

[BubblyShell22]

You're right. Not all kids are like that. I should've reworded my post a bit. However, a majority of kids are like that, and to say it's the fault of the sex ed programs is absurd. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, I do sound bitter. I'm a cynical person. I don't have faith in much of anything anymore.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I should note that many supposed "progressives" are just as, if not more, intolerant and bigoted than the conservatives they mock as ignorant and closed-minded. I know this from personal experience.

As for "progressive" places, on another forum I follow, a resident of Ontario, Canada had mentioned coming out as a homosexual. He ended up being kicked out of his home, ostracized by his friends, fired from his job, and subject to homelessness and violent attacks by thugs. Another stereotype down the tubes.

[BubblyShell22]

I think that this supposed study is just stupid and very biased. It doesn't matter how the kids are educated about sex. Regardless of that, they're going to do it anyway because they want to. You can be educated about something and still want to try it. How many kids are educated about drugs, yet they still do them because of peer pressure?

[Falconhood]

What is "Conversative"...the Dictionary.com gives a definition that makes no sense, it's like i need a dummied down version of the definition:
1. Relating to intercourse with men; social; - opposed to contemplative.
She chose . . . to endue him with the conversative qualities of youth.
- Sir H. Wotton.
I can't seem to derive the meaning in the title.
"social states with higher pregnancy rates"...???
isn't that obvious. The more you talk(flirt) the more intercourse you can expect.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Love Education should be encouraged more than Sex Education.

All we had (and still happens today) in UK education is somebody handing out different sexual prophylactics for everyone to pass around with a lecture on how they are used. No encouragement of values, waiting for 'the one', pride in staying 'pure', Abstinence, self respect, or dealing with peer pressure. The message we got was "We are old enough to and can sleep around, so we should!".

===HERO

In my high school we did have a class, part of which dealt with why marriages fail. As one of the handouts, we got the story of a man who was married two dozen times. The idea was that he didn't know what to expect from a spouse or how to make a marriage work.

Also, in actual sex education classes, we were taught about contraceptives and how and why they work. We were also warned about the risks of sexuality. Since such education was segregated by gender, I wonder what the girls were taught.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I think that this supposed study is just stupid and very biased. It doesn't matter how the kids are educated about sex. Regardless of that, they're going to do it anyway because they want to. You can be educated about something and still want to try it. How many kids are educated about drugs, yet they still do them because of peer pressure?

Not to mention the fact that so many people drink and drive despite so many messages about the dangers of potential tragic consequences.

[BubblyShell22]

Exactly.

And the OP meant "conservative states" not "conversative states." Can someone please fix that?

[clanmalkav]

As a teacher, I've seen first hand the lack of sex education in schools. I've overheard girls talking about taking the pill after sex for prevention. I've witnessed outbreaks of VDs because many didn't know the facts.

I'm in TX, in a mostly Catholic area. I hate the arguments against teaching sex ed. because of religion or conservative values. I consider myself close to both conservative and religious, but I also value teaching all views. I know so much could be prevented if we opened up instead of concealing the facts about sex.

[Barkworm]

It doesn't matter how the kids are educated about sex. Regardless of that, they're going to do it anyway because they want to.
See, this is where you are both right and completely wrong: Of course, kids are going to have sex. But if they don't have any sex education they might not have it responsibly. Just look at the numbers posted here:

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/419?task=view

Can you honestly tell me that numbers like that, especially in comparison to other "modern" countries, are simply caused by American teens being more rebellious?

[BubblyShell22]

I agree with you there and see your point. I should have pointed it out better than what I did. But sex is always a hot topic among certain groups and they have different methods to teaching it. Frankly, I think that parents should be the ones to also educate their children on the matter so that they know the facts just in case their schools don't teach them about it.

[Jelly Bean]

am I the only one who thinks that maybe it is just kids rebelling against the strictness of sexual morals? It seems pretty contradictive if the reason conservative states have higher preganancies is that birth control and abortion is against their religion when sex out side of marriage would be against there religion too.

[BubblyShell22]

No, I think that's part of it, too, but I do think that some schools are a bit lax when it comes to sex ed.

[Jelly Bean]

I think school, or rather parents are just lax on teaching teenage girls that sleeping around doesn't necassarily mean you are going to be "popular" with boys. Sure you'll get attention but not really the kind you want. Most people in high school slept around because they wanted to be liked and seen as sexy not exactly because they wanted too.I think it says alot of what girls today think if sleeping around it a status symbol. Any body see the movie Easy A.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/Easy_a_australian.jpg

[plastroncafe]

It's sad that a girl's social worth is measured by her sexual activity.

[Jelly Bean]

and people are wondering why American men are begining to have so much disdain for American women and want forign women instead, like in this thread I made a while back:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=35748

[plastroncafe]

Those men don't want women, they want property.
Basing a woman's worth on her virginity plays into the idea that women are a commodity.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

And males aren't viewed as worthwhile commodities as well? Like how much money they have or how they look?

As for women being valued by sexual activity, why not? Would you really want to sleep with someone likely to have some venereal disease?

[Candy Kappa]

As for women being valued by sexual activity, why not? Would you really want to sleep with someone likely to have some venereal disease?

wouldn't this comment go both ways?

I highly doubt chest-hair protects a guy against nasty diseases :P

[Jelly Bean]

And males aren't viewed as worthwhile commodities as well? Like how much money they have or how they look? As for women being valued by sexual activity, why not? Would you really want to sleep with someone likely to have some venereal disease?

did she ever imply that men wheren't? She was just talking about how women are and it's true? I don't get why some guys get defensive about this. I underatand you don't want to get attacked as being "sexist" but I never understood why some guys try to gloss over the fact that sexual objectification is something that happens to women, by saying the same thing happen to them. Yes it does. It very shallow and women who do are lazy and hypocritical, but the difference is that men are rarely stigmitized as dirty or worthless for being sexual like women do.

I'm sorry if I am coming off as atagonisitic or "emotional," and I really don't want to start a snarkfest between the sexes on here, but I get annoyed with this "shut-up it happens to us too" attitude some guys get when it comes to topics like this when really it doesn't affect guys the same it affects girls. I get it. Guys get treated lik crap and are used by women as care takers and human wallets and I'm not maginalizing that, but when I see attitudes like that from guys I do feel they are marginalizing our side.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to cause problems or even saying that 97 Chi-ha isn't allowed to voice his opinion (which is true) and maybe I'm way off base but this something I felt I needed to get off my chest.Sorry for offending anyone.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Put it this way-do other women think well of females who sleep around? I'm willing to bet the answer is no.

BTW, years ago a men's magazine (I don't remember which) had an article about a married man who bragged about having a number of extramarital affairs, and who called himself a romantic. The letters written in response-by other males-were invariably negative and condemnatory of this man.

[NameGoesHere1066]

Kids down here aren't freaks who think you gotta wait for marriage.....or don't know anything about sex... jesus, media.

why is there this mentality that if some wants to wait until marriage they are freaks?





Or for that matter why do people think if you want want to wait for the right person before having sex (like waiting for marriage) that you are a relgious nut job? So many people act like if someone wants to wait they are archaic idiots or goody-goods. Actually I rather respect someone who wants to wait, personly it's not for me, but I marvel at the amount of flack some people get when they express that they would rather wait. There is this guy I know who is a grad student and he said that he wants to wait till he meets the right girl. He is not religious he just said he has become disenchanted with casual sex or sex with girls that end is breaking up after a while. This guy gets so much sh** from his male buddies, he's beeen called everything from a nerd to a ****** to religious fanitic (when he is actually agnostic)it's is so sad. He's not gay and he is a really decent guy, but everyone treat him like he's a freak. What the hell!

Put it this way-do other women think well of females who sleep around? I'm willing to bet the answer is no.


I agree with you , but it is really more complex than that. It is a double edged sword women want to be sexually liberated but there is fine line between female stud and a slut/whore and most women do not want to be associated with that so they do what they can (including turning on other women) to distance themself from that. Because like it or not, a woman's worth is still judged on her purity. And I'm sorry this come out of Patriarch soceity. Thats a fact. But it's women's falt for abetting it. I saw a story on the news where of a muslim woman accused of adultry was stoned to death, not by men but by other women.

BTW, years ago a men's magazine (I don't remember which) had an article about a married man who bragged about having a number of extramarital affairs, and who called himself a romantic. The letters written in response-by other males-were invariably negative and condemnatory of this man.

if that is true than that is a pretty sign that things are changing for the better.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I agree with you , but it is really more complex than that. It is a double edged sword women want to be sexually liberated but there is fine line between female stud and a slut/whore and most women do not want to be associated with that so they do what they can (including turning on other women) to distance themself from that. Because like it or not, a woman's worth is still judged on her purity. And I'm sorry this come out of Patriarch soceity. Thats a fact. But it's women's falt for abetting it. I saw a story on the news where of a muslim woman accused of adultry was stoned to death, not by men but by other women.


You seem to assume that men create all of society's rules and women have no say and passively go along with what men want. On the contrary I have found that women have quite a lot of power in society, and certainly they would dictate sexual rules along with the men. After all, they're the ones who get pregnant, and are more likely to catch VD from sleeping around. If you're still convinced over womens' powerlessness, try reading literature from decades or centuries ago, and note how men and women behave in various poems or stories.

[Sage Ninja]

On the contrary I have found that women have quite a lot of power in society

In hunter and Gathering societies of the past you are right, there was alot more equality among men and women where both had equal say and contributed. :thumbsup: :nod: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer
It was mostly agricultural societies where women had a lower status. Contemporary society we have more say.

Frankly, I think that parents should be the ones to also educate their children on the matter so that they know the facts just in case their schools don't teach them about it.

My parents were too shy to approach the subject and my mother didn't even aknoweldge it beyond telling me about my menses. Alot of parents just don't seem to want to tackle the issue. My mother said her father made her step mother do it but she decided to just give my mom a book about it instead. My Mother was new to the country and understood little english and misunderstood the book because it used alot of metaphores. She said she thought it was a book on flowers and gardening. :ohwell: Some how I still don't think parents are beyond this indirect way of teaching sex.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, my mom never had the talk with me at all. I had to learn it at school. But still, I think that parents need to do it anyway. Yeah, they may feel uncomfortable about it, but it would be worth it as long as their kids know what sex is about and the dangers it can present if they don't take proper precautions.

As for waiting until marriage, it's fine if you want to do that. It's your choice. It's not for me at all. Plus, I doubt I'll be getting married because if I do, my BF's Social Security benefits might get taken away. So, for that alone, I'd rather just have sex without marriage involved.

[Hannah]

The most widely taught [abstinence-only] course is called "Sex Respect," which has been purchased by approximately two thousand school districts nationwide. The text states that "There’s no way to have premarital sex without hurting someone," and in an accompanying video a student asks, "What if I want to have sex before I get married?" The instructor replies, "Well, I guess you'll just have to be prepared to die. And you'll probably take with you your spouse and one or more of your children." Abortion is referred to only as "killing the baby." In the narratives presented in "Sex Respect," premarital sex always leads to pregnancy or disease; there is no mention of contraceptives or abortion. Even in the best-case scenario, the curriculum says, premarital sex will cause severe emotional pain ("There's no condom strong enough to protect my heart"). Other abstinence-only curricula exaggerate the failure rate of condoms and suggest that after sex when a condom is used, the genitals should be washed with Lysol. — “Slut!” by Leora Tanenbaum (2000)

All I can say is that when I have children I am going to teach them from an early age that sex is OK and not dirty and unnatural. Even my own mother (who is very liberal) never gave me "the talk" and made me feel ashamed of myself and my choices when I was 14 when she was grilling me about whether I was a virgin or not. She's come a long way since then, I think, a lot thanks to me, but it's frightening how uninformed even she was just a few years ago. I remember her trying to tell me that the doctors would be able to tell if I've had sex so I better just own up to it then.
Sex is natural and good and fun if you are ready, express consent, and practice it safely. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.



I think school, or rather parents are just lax on teaching teenage girls that sleeping around doesn't necassarily mean you are going to be "popular" with boys. Sure you'll get attention but not really the kind you want. Most people in high school slept around because they wanted to be liked and seen as sexy not exactly because they wanted too.I think it says alot of what girls today think if sleeping around it a status symbol. Any body see the movie Easy A.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/Easy_a_australian.jpg
If you're relating that post to Easy A... Easy A is a great movie that comments on slut-shaming and the way we use someone else's sexuality to shame them.
"I might even lose my virginity to him. I don't know when will it happen. You know, maybe in five minutes, or tonight, or sixth months from now, or maybe on the night of our wedding. But the really amazing this is, it is nobody's goddamn business."

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. Interesting post, Hannah. I'd never buy that book. It's just that in our society, sex is seen as dirty and unnatural, mostly to the overly religious crowd. And these people are so stupid if they think you can die by having sex.

[Hannah]

Wow. Interesting post, Hannah. I'd never buy that book. It's just that in our society, sex is seen as dirty and unnatural, mostly to the overly religious crowd. And these people are so stupid if they think you can die by having sex.

Well, yeah, that's the problem. Kids are being taught that sex will kill them, if not physically, then emotionally. They're taught that contraception doesn't work. So why use it? Abstinence only sex ed doesn't keep people from having sex. It keeps them from having good sex. It keeps them from enjoying themselves and protecting themselves. It blurs the line between consent and rape by portraying all nonmarital sex as bad and wrong and never to be spoken of. Abstinence only education is wrong and harmful.

[BubblyShell22]

Exactly. People need to learn that consensual sex within the confines of a committed relationship is just fine as long as you plan ahead and use protection. It's not wrong or dirty or immoral. Unfortunately, that'll never happen as there are some people who are too biased about the whole thing.

[Hannah]

You don't need no relationship fo' good sex, yo.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, I wouldn't know anything about that. Besides, it's just my opinion anyway. I'd rather be in a committed relationship and have sex than just to have sex with some random guy.

As for Easy A, I really wanted to see that movie but never got around to it. That movie was all about the girl faking having sex and dealing with people saying that she did when she didn't have sex. I don't see why that's sending a bad message.

[NameGoesHere1066]

You don't need no relationship fo' good sex, yo.

maybe, just so long as you use protection. I can't tell you how many girls I see who refuse to use contraception for some dumb reason.

I think that as long as both are willing and responciable I think casual sex is just fine and very enjoyable. However I put emphasis on responciable some people are just out of control when it comes to having sex. I mean my God how shameless is it to have had so many different sexual partners in a brief amount of time to the point that you don't know who fathered your kid? It's not just those assholes who show up on Maury for paternity tests, I see women like this in real life who just don't know who the hell the father is. The drama that ensues is just disgusting and ugly and theres a human life involved.

I hate puritan mindsets on sex but at the same time I don't think we should be going hog wild either. Isn't there a middle ground?

[Hannah]

F*ck that noise. Responsible is making sure you use protection and practicing consent. I can sleep with WHOEVER I want WHENEVER I want AS OFTEN as I want and that's totally fine. It's not irresponsible to have multiple partners. That's bullsh*t.

[NameGoesHere1066]

calm down chica! I never said you couldn't have as many partners as you want; what you said right here:

Responsible is making sure you use protection and practicing consent

that was the point.But if you are going to do that keeping tract of who you 've been with is important so you know who fathered the kid because an alarming amount of people just don't use protection and then they suddenly don't know who the daddy is. Thats part of being responciable.

[plastroncafe]

I hate puritan mindsets on sex but at the same time I don't think we should be going hog wild either. Isn't there a middle ground?

There's no middle ground when paternity and contraception is all on the woman.

[BubblyShell22]

And there's no middle ground when it comes to some religious groups and their mindsets about sex either. It's either wait until marriage or you're considered unclean in their minds.

[Jester]

As a "religious" person that's total hogwash, Bubbly. I think it's ideal to wait until marriage, but I don't really look down on people who have sexual relationships outside of wedlock, I just wish/hope they do so responsibly.

And if the guy is such a colossal douche that he's not worried about contraception or any other safe sex practices for that matter (because there are more dangers to sex than just potential children) then he's probably not a guy you want to have sex with in the first place.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

There's no middle ground when paternity and contraception is all on the woman.

I thought the "virgin/whore" mentality was supposed to be a bad thing?

[BubblyShell22]

I fixed my post, Jester. I meant that some religious groups look down on it with no middle ground. I didn't notice my mistake. My bad.

[Hannah]

Jester, it doesn't matter if *you're* religious and *you're* not like that. You're the exception to the rule.

That's like if I were to say "but not all white people are racist!" You're just derailing the conversation for the sake of "BUT WE'RE NOT ALL LIKE THAT!!!"

[The Stryker]

You know. For being little miss tolerance and knowledge you sure do attack people's beliefs and lifestyles for no reason at all.

Right. Religious people are the only hateful ones. Sure.

[Hannah]

No, I never said that. Don't make sh*t up. Christians have historically and systematically oppressed many groups of people- one of those groups being women. I was raised Christian and have a personal and close understanding of the religion and those who practice it. No, not everyone who identifies as religious is hateful. Of course not. But that doesn't matter. That's not relevant to the conversation.

Odd that you suddenly seem to care when you so often pride yourself on being hateful.

[Jester]

I don't see it as derailing. It's a valid point. The generalization of all Christians as these prudish bigots is as wrong as the generalization that all sexually active people are male and female whores. All generalizations are pointless and only serve to marginalize those being talked about. Making all Christians look like Westboro Baptist Church makes it easier to not take anything we say seriously, just like when Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a "slut" it was an attempt to discredit her and make her argument invalid.

[愛]

Odd that you suddenly seem to care when you so often pride yourself on being hateful.

You don't think he actually cares, do you? Man, this thread is so college. lol

[mysterycolor]

you could always just lock it... ;)

[愛]

Nah, this thread is good. Hannah just thinks her opinion is important. She'll figure things out one day...I hope.

[Hannah]

I don't see it as derailing. It's a valid point. The generalization of all Christians as these prudish bigots is as wrong as the generalization that all sexually active people are male and female whores. All generalizations are pointless and only serve to marginalize those being talked about. Making all Christians look like Westboro Baptist Church makes it easier to not take anything we say seriously, just like when Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a "slut" it was an attempt to discredit her and make her argument invalid.
It's not the same thing because Christians actively oppress people. Women don't oppress anyone when they have sex.



Also, hey Rhen! I'm glad that in your sad little life you at least get the joy of policing a TMNT forum and belittling people who disagree with your violent, misogynistic views while abusing your "power."

[The Stryker]

So is that your thing now? Anybody that says anything negative in your direction and they're a misogynist?

[Hannah]

Yep, you've got me.



misandrist
4
lyfe

[Jester]

Right...no woman's ever used sex as a weapon.

And if you wanna talk about religion oppressing others, especially women, why not bring up Islam? Then maybe we could finally drive this thread to closure, which to be honest I'm surprised it hasn't been already.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. Just wow. Hannah, not all Christians are like that. That's what Jester was saying and why I changed my post to reflect that. I didn't want anyone to think that I was saying all religious people are like that because they aren't. However, to the ones who ARE like that, there really isn't a middle ground. They stick with what they believe wholeheartedly.

[愛]

Also, hey Rhen! I'm glad that in your sad little life you at least get the joy of policing a TMNT forum and belittling people who disagree with your violent, misogynistic views while abusing your "power."

Sure, if you want.

[Hannah]

Wow. Just wow. Hannah, not all Christians are like that. That's what Jester was saying and why I changed my post to reflect that. I didn't want anyone to think that I was saying all religious people are like that because they aren't. However, to the ones who ARE like that, there really isn't a middle ground. They stick with what they believe wholeheartedly.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/bayside4528/mds/tumblr_llvcz7Hwyc1qzb9vso1_400.jpg

[Hannah]

Right...no woman's ever used sex as a weapon.
LOL

And if you wanna talk about religion oppressing others, especially women, why not bring up Islam? Then maybe we could finally drive this thread to closure, which to be honest I'm surprised it hasn't been already.
It's not my place to comment on Islam because I'm white and have no intimate knowledge of the religion.

[Jester]

But you're so knowledgeable and open-minded. You haven't even looked into that faith?

[Hannah]

As I just said literally moments ago, it's not my place to comment. It's not appropriate for white people to devalue another culture.

[Jester]

So it's fine for any culture to oppress women? That seems silly. Even as a white woman, you should be able to speak for other women. You seemed to be good at that up until now.

[Hannah]

Thanks for the mansplaining! LOVE IT.

[Candy Kappa]

meh, it seems all of the religions and views systems based on the JHWH god have some skewered view on women one way or the other in their scriptures.

but this is kinda getting off topic, or?

[Jester]

Thanks for the mansplaining! LOVE IT.
I'm sorry all I heard was: "Very well, I'll fem-municate your man-formation. "

[mysterycolor]

LOL


It's not my place to comment on Islam because I'm white and have no intimate knowledge of the religion.
wait a min... you dont know about islam because you are white? what does that even mean?

[Jester]

It means all white people are ignorant...DUH!

[Hannah]

wait a min... you dont know about islam because you are white? what does that even mean?
It's not my place. It's not okay for me to criticize a culture I have no part in and will never understand on a personal level. Of course I don't respect the misogyny prevalent in many religions including those of Islam. But it would be culturally insensitive for me to pass judgement on the religions as a whole.

I don't need to explain this any further.


It means all white people are ignorant...DUH!
You're a class act.

[Jester]

Just living up to the standard set in this thread, honey...

Oh, I'm sorry that "honey" crack makes me come of as a total misogynist.

[Hannah]

Just living up to the standard set in this thread, honey...

Oh, I'm sorry that "honey" crack makes me come of as a total misogynist.
Yeah, actually, it does. I know you think it's cute to talk down to women but I'm not your honey, asshole.

[Jester]

Yeah, actually, it does. I know you think it's cute to talk down to women but I'm not your honey, asshole.
Um...babe? Sweetcakes? Ah....Princess!

[mysterycolor]

It's not my place. It's not okay for me to criticize a culture I have no part in and will never understand on a personal level. Of course I don't respect the misogyny prevalent in many religions including those of Islam. But it would be culturally insensitive for me to pass judgement on the religions as a whole.

I don't need to explain this any further.



it is one thing to say you arent comfortable discussing something because you are not familiar with it... but to say, "i'm a white woman and therefore can't have knowledge of Islamic faith..." that sort of dribble makes me wish you would not advertise being a white woman...

[Hannah]

it is one thing to say you arent comfortable discussing something because you are not familiar with it... but to say, "i'm a white woman and therefore can't have knowledge of Islamic faith..." that sort of dribble makes me wish you would not advertise being a white woman...
You people are almost adorably ignorant.

[Jester]

I hate to go to the old, childish stand-bys, but this thread has descended to it, so why the heck not:

Takes one to know one...

[mysterycolor]

awww, thanks, i always try to be adorable :)

[Hannah]

I hate to go to the old, childish stand-bys, but this thread has descended to it, so why the heck not:

Takes one to know one...
Can't hear you over all that privilege, buddy.

[Candy Kappa]

this is way better then debating pregnancy rates

[Jester]

Can't hear you over all that privilege, buddy.
How's that white guilt workin' for ya?

[The Stryker]

You people are almost adorably ignorant.

I can't wait until next month when you have a new agenda to push that you've always loved and stood for forever.

[Jester]

Time to crank the misogyny to 11:
k80nW6AOhTs

[Hannah]

lol this forum why do i even do this

[Jester]

lol this forum why do i even do this
Believe me that question has occurred to many of us, too.

[Katie]

I learned something! One has to be of a particular race to be of a particular religion....or rather, if you aren't of a particular racial group you could never be of a particular religion.

Fact: middle easten people are considered caucasian. I have a lebanese friend. Driver's license says white.

Also.....I know white female muslims. And black buddhists. And a chinese person who practices santaria.

Weird world.

I must have dreamed it.

[Dirty Blond]

I'm blond. I wouldn't know.

[Katie]

That's ok. At least you don't think you are better than everyone because you can use big words.

[Hannah]

Can we stop with that childish bullsh*t? What words am I using that are too big for you? Get over yourself.

My position on not criticizing Islam comes from discussions I've witnessed and participated in with people of that culture.

[Sage Ninja]

**cringe hard**

wow, I am really sorry this thread went down the tubes into a snarkfest about sexual rights and how evil men oppress women and evil women manipulate men with sex. The thing is some valid points have been made on almost all the subjects that were brought up but most of the points have become saturated with immature mudslinging, and based on the past posts of those on here I know most of you are above that, especially one in particular.

Someone mentioned about genralizations and how they marginalize others so as to discredit their point of view, they couldn't have been more right. The thing that I've noticed about religious people and and nonreligious people is that both have an incrediable amount conceit and arrogance and how they both draw hard lines defining what it means to be one or the other.

For example I consider my self religious and spiritual but I am also pretty liberal minded in my way of thinking. Heck I'm cathoilc but I also have feminist ideals, and you know what they actually coexist just fine with me. Some people ask me how I can be both and even tell me you can't be religious and liberal minded at the same time. I think some people get so hung up on the text book definations or the media potrayal of what it is to be any of these things that they forget that there is room for flexiablity.

I frequently tell people "I'm my own kind of feminist, I'm my own kind of liberal, and yes I can be both and be Christian." I'm follwing my own defination of what is to be these things, not the thoughly negative defination framed by our cultural and media of what it is to be these things.

[Peanut]

Did I miss it? Can I get in on this?

[Hannah]

I never said someone couldn't be religious and a feminist. I know many women who are. My point was simply that it was irrelevant to say that not all Christians feel x way about y subject. It's still largely Christians who are perpetuating harmful stereotypes.

[Sage Ninja]

I never said someone couldn't be religious and a feminist. I know many women who are.

I was refering to attitudes in general. Some people regard words like "liberal" and "religious" as though they were an oxymoron.

[Cure]

I never said someone couldn't be religious and a feminist. I know many women who are. My point was simply that it was irrelevant to say that not all Christians feel x way about y subject. It's still largely Christians who are perpetuating harmful stereotypes.

I just remembered why we're not friends anymore. I mean, aren't you perpetuating harmful stereotypes right now?

[Hannah]

We're not friends anymore because I realized I wanted nothing to do with the circle jerk that is your group of friends.

[Peanut]

1) How is a normal group of friends a circle jerk?
2) When the f*ck did you EVER have anything to do with any of us aside from Cure?

[Hannah]

I didn't. That's the point.

[Brodie]

She's just mad that we wouldn't let Doom play Ghostbusters and she had to hear about it.

Next time we'll for sure "let him in on this."

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's what we talk about. We've got nothing else in our lives so we talk about you.

[Peanut]

The last time I talked to Doom was when we all played Castle Crashers together. Weird how we were perfectly cool and...you know...hanging out playing a game, but now apparently I'm such a monster it would cause Hannah to cut ties with someone who associates with me.

[Hannah]

lols I'm pretty sure Alex doesn't like you but I won't speak for him. I wouldnt cut off ties with him yanno cause he's my ~boyfren~ and we live together and stuff but I'd probably question it because he usually doesn't make a habit of befriending assholes



Also seriously when even was that like 2 or 3 years ago?

[Sage Ninja]

ok, now this really has derailed off course.

[愛]

I'm surprised you're still on this forum in the first place, Hannah. Isn't Doom doing something you don't want him to do right now? You should get on his ass and push your agenda on him!

Biggest mistake of his life, I gotta say.

[Peanut]

lols I'm pretty sure Alex doesn't like you but I won't speak for him. I wouldnt cut off ties with him yanno cause he's my ~boyfren~ and we live together and stuff but I'd probably question it because he usually doesn't make a habit of befriending assholes



Also seriously when even was that like 2 or 3 years ago?

Somehow you're more childish now than when you were 12.

[Cure]

Yeah, that's what we talk about. We've got nothing else in our lives so we talk about you.

I'm pretty sure you guys do considering he last posted to stick up for his ~gurlfren~.

[plastroncafe]

Wow...I just brought myself back up to speed on what I missed from yesterday.

Christianity has a history of oppressing women. Bringing Islam into it does not suddenly erase that fact.

If you want to prove how open minded and non-judgemental you are as a Christian...stop telling me about it, and start doing something about the bigots who hide among your flock.

There is a very real problem with sexism in this country, and in our culture. Bringing up other instances of sexism, attempting to play the Oppression Olympics, does not help alleviate the problem. It just makes you look like a derailing douchebag who doesn't understand the issues.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. This thread has not only derailed off of its course, but it's become a laugh fest for me.

Hey, Hannah, I have a question. What's a misandrist? I've never heard of that word.

[Cure]

LOOK IT UP. You're on the internet.

[Jester]

misandry (n) from miso- "hatred" + andros "of man, male human being"

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Wow. This thread has not only derailed off of its course, but it's become a laugh fest for me.

What a coincidence. It's become the same way for me too.

[BubblyShell22]

I looked up the word in the dictionary but couldn't find it. Thanks for the definition, Jester.

[Hannah]

Wow...I just brought myself back up to speed on what I missed from yesterday.

Christianity has a history of oppressing women. Bringing Islam into it does not suddenly erase that fact.

If you want to prove how open minded and non-judgemental you are as a Christian...stop telling me about it, and start doing something about the bigots who hide among your flock.

There is a very real problem with sexism in this country, and in our culture. Bringing up other instances of sexism, attempting to play the Oppression Olympics, does not help alleviate the problem. It just makes you look like a derailing douchebag who doesn't understand the issues.
Yes, this. A thousand times, this.

I'm surprised you're still on this forum in the first place, Hannah. Isn't Doom doing something you don't want him to do right now? You should get on his ass and push your agenda on him!

Biggest mistake of his life, I gotta say.
http://i43.tinypic.com/33yq4xz.gif

[Dirty Blond]

misandry (n) from miso- "hatred" + andros "of man, male human being"

It's bigotry, by any other name.

[plastroncafe]

It's bigotry, by any other name.

Very much so, and along the same lines as misogyny.*
Which for some reason is far more socially acceptable, in spite of the fact that it's also bigotry.


*Here let me Google that for you: misogyny (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=misogyny)

[Peanut]

Very much so, and along the same lines as misogyny.*
Which for some reason is far more socially acceptable, in spite of the fact that it's also bigotry.


*Here let me Google that for you: misogyny (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=misogyny)

It being less socially acceptable doesn't make it any less pathetic.

[plastroncafe]

Not in terms of ethicality, no.
But if we were going to measure an exact amount of patheticness and use instances of bigotry as the means by which to calculate that measure...then yes. I would say that misandry is less pathetic than misogyny.

[Peanut]

Bigotry is f*cking bigotry, no matter how you try and justify it.

It's pathetic. End.

[plastroncafe]

You're absolutely right, which is why I was surprised to return to this thread and see people actually trying to play the: Christian bigotry is no where near as bad as the bigotry to be found in Islam! line.

Especially right after the claim of "Not all Christians are like that."
Because...there's fewer things funnier than watching someone try to claim that everyone in that other camp is the same, while everyone in their own camp is different.

[Peanut]

You know...human beings. They're always throwing a monkey wrench into logic and hoping they can blame the ensuing explosion on the "diametrically" opposed ethnicity/religion/gender etc.

Too bad they can't take a step back and realize that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[plastroncafe]

That's the problem with living in a binary focused world.
It's always "either/or" and not "Yes, and?"

It's interesting to me, as an anthropologist, to watch as male-identified spaces are slowly being dragged kicking and screaming into a more diverse tomorrowland.

Personally, I don't see how we all couldn't benefit from a more comprehensive sex-positive education, she writes trying to bring the conversation back to the original topic.

There's nothing inherently wrong with healthy sexual expression. And yes, abstinence is a healthy expression of sexual behavior. No one should be shamed for not being ready for sex, just as no one should be shamed for partaking in a little somethin'-somethin'.

We all have sexual/reproductive systems that need tending to, and even if you're holding off on sharing yours with a partner, you should still know how they work. But in more conservative states what we're finding out is that people don't trust the younger generation to have all the information. They don't trust young adults with a choice. And that's wrong.

[BubblyShell22]

You're right, they don't trust young adults. But then again, kids are still developing and maturing. Even if kids get the proper sexual education they need, it doesn't mean that they're going to listen to it and heed the warnings. It happens all the time where kids just decide to have sex despite all the warnings because they think, in their minds, that they're invincible and that nothing will happen to them. So, they don't use protection or abstain, and the girl ends up getting pregnant. Then that becomes a whole other issue.

[Redeemer]

There is a very real problem with sexism in this country, and in our culture. Bringing up other instances of sexism, attempting to play the Oppression Olympics, does not help alleviate the problem.

No offense, but I completely disagree, Every minority in this country is getting so much help that its actually oppressing White Males IMO. Its really BS bc I am tired of people (most, not all) making themselves to look like a victim, when there not......

My biggest examples would be government Fasfa. I come from a less well off family, with no father, but a African American who's family is in similar circumstances receive a significant more amount of assistance than I do, or college will offer a minority scholarship.

My other example is the Trayvon Martin case, the kid was 17 years old, but they would only show 5 year old pics of the kid, completely bs, that case has only become about race, and true Justice for Trayvon will NOT prevail. Zimmerman will only be convicted bc of Trayvon's race.......

[plastroncafe]

I'm sorry, but your examples do not support your thesis.

[Redeemer]

I'm sorry, but your examples do not support your thesis.

How do they not support my statement??? I was denied more fasfa bc I was a white male, but an African-American was awarded more money bc he was a minority, even though we came from similar backgrounds.... Perfect example right there.

And Zimmerman is already guilty in the eye of the public even though he (supposedly) was defending himself. He is being persecuted bc of his race, by the black community. Hell the black panthers have a bounty on him!!!!. dont get me wrong I think the idiot still needs to face some sort of punishment, bc he caused the confrontation.

[plastroncafe]

You said I was wrong, and then didn't provide proof as to why I was wrong.

Just because things are worse in other places, or because people elsewhere treat people more horribly than we do here, that does not negate the injustices done in the United States.

It may be true that some sects of Islam are more oppressive to women than the Madonna/Whore binary that the modern day Christianty we've got running in the background in America, but that doesn't change the fact that this binary is problematic. It doesn't stop it from hurting everyone.

You view the world as giving everyone other than white men special privileges. And to prove this thesis you provide two cherry picked instances of this sort of thing happening.

The problem with your examples are this:

They're anecdotal and cherry picked.
Meaning they're not credible enough to support your thesis.
Oh they work fine to support the idea that life sucks, and sometimes it's not fair, but as proof of an trend in which white men are oppressed....no. Sorry.

It sucks that you didn't get the aid you wanted. And I'm sorry that furthering your education is going to be more expensive as a result. It's sad that in America education is a commodity, and not something freely given to those who want it.

You should be mad at the system for that, and not your black friend who got more money because the same system that's keeping you from getting your education is the one that also perpetuates racial inequality.

This would be the same racial inequality that assumes that all black men in hooded sweatshirts deserve it when they get shot by vigilantes with anger management problems.

[Redeemer]

You said I was wrong,

Just because things are worse in other places, or because people elsewhere treat people more horribly than we do here, that does not negate the injustices done in the United States.

You view the world as giving everyone other than white men special privileges. And to prove this thesis you provide two cherry picked instances of this sort of thing happening.

The problem with your examples are this:

They're anecdotal and cherry picked.
Meaning they're not credible enough to support your thesis.
Oh they work fine to support the idea that life sucks, and sometimes it's not fair, but as proof of an trend in which white men are oppressed....no. Sorry.

It sucks that you didn't get the aid you wanted. And I'm sorry that furthering your education is going to be more expensive as a result. It's sad that in America education is a commodity, and not something freely given to those who want it.

You should be mad at the system for that, and not your black friend who got more money because the same system that's keeping you from getting your education is the one that also perpetuates racial inequality.

This would be the same racial inequality that assumes that all black men in hooded sweatshirts deserve it when they get shot by vigilantes with anger management problems.

First I never said you were wrong, I jst said I disagreed with you.
Second I live in America.
Third I am not saying that Islam is not sexiest, Im not saying that Christianity is not sexiest, I think they both are and I am christian, but I believe in racial and sexual inequality, but when you oppress one group to lift another, thats when I believe the line is crossed.....I am sorry but when it comes to fasfa money being awarded, white males tend to get the least even when coming from similar circumstances.

As far as the Trayvon Martin, the avocation/ support from the African-American Community is simply demonizing Zimmerman and taking away his right of a fair trial. "Innocent until proven guilty" Bs they have demonized him so much that he is guilty in the eyes of the public.

Side note I dont care how Trayvon was dressed, but there was a crap load of valuable jewelry on him..... I love how this is not mentioned....in the news..... Still Zimmerman should have left him to the cops

[plastroncafe]

Citations for your sources please.

[Redeemer]

Citations for your sources please.

Forgot sorry, also I misread a couple a days ago he was investigated and jewelry and "burgler" tools were found on him, last October. Misunderstood the two incidents http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-investigated-trayvon-martin-jewelry-16015168#.T3YjVXpL3TQ

[BubblyShell22]

Um, what does this have to do with the topic at hand? We're talking about sexual education in conservative states, not oppression of white people.

[plastroncafe]

It doesn't, but people with an ax to grind seldom care about such things.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

But the topic at hand is just going around in circles anyway. We're no closer to resolution than when it began. The study is but one study, and it hasn't been established that sex education reduces or even affects pregnancy rates.

[plastroncafe]

I would disagree:

• A November 2007 report found that “two-thirds of the 48 comprehensive programs that supported both abstinence and the use of condoms and contraceptives for sexually active teens had positive behavioral effects.” Many either delayed or reduced sexual activity, reduced the number of sexual partners, or increased the use of condoms or other contraceptives.[24]

• There is no evidence to date that abstinence-only-until-marriage education delays teen sexual activity. Moreover, research shows that abstinence-only strategies may deter contraceptive use among sexually active teens, increasing their risk of unintended pregnancy and STIs.[23]

From Here (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Teen-Sex-Ed.html)
Complete with footnotes.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, at least that's something to be thankful for.