Are the mutant allies more popular than the mutant villains?

[CyberCubed]

In another thread in the Nick section, we were discussing if Groundchuck and Dirtbag were well received enough to consider a possible comeback like Nick is doing with Metalhead. It was then made the notion, that with the exception of the really popular mutant villains like Rocksteady/Bebop, Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, etc....that the "mutant allies" or animal friends tend to be more popular.

See if you agree. The heroes:

- Leatherhead
- Mondo Gecko
- Ray Fillet
- Napoleon Bonafrog
- Merdude
- Wingnut/Screwloose
- Dreadmon
- Jaguar
- Mona Lisa
- Ninjara
- Warrior Dragon/Hothead
- Ace Duck


So is this true? Do you think the mutant/animal allies of the Turtles tend to be more popular than the mutant villains?

Outside of Rocksteady/Bebop, Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, Armaggon, and fly-Baxter....the rest of the mutant villains don't tend to be as popular.

[Jester]

Yes .

[Stingray69]

I would say so.

[Nintendophile]

I'd have to agree. If you look at it from a non-biased point of view, the characters that got the most story-time are usually the ones people remember more. Most of the mutant allies mentioned above had appearances in the cartoon, and somewhat lengthy, recurring appearances in the comics.

Though, it's difficult for us to think in terms like that, because WE'RE the people who WOULD remember Groundchuck and Dirtbag. lol.

[Powder]

I disagree. I'd say it's pretty fair balanced, if not leaning towards villains being more popular. The majority of the TMNT's mutant allies were known from Archie, not the show. There's no doubt the OT was watched far more than the Archie comic was read. I'm sure if I were to ask casual fans they'd remember fellas like Metalhead over Wingnut. The toyline also helped further the popularity of the villains, I would imagine. The same could probably be said of some of the allies but kids also remember the evil stuff more fondly for their "badass" appearances, I think.

[Redeemer]

I actually liked the mutant villains better. I jst like there designs better and back stories, but then again I do not know all of the mutant allies

[CyberCubed]

I think its odd to say really. Muckman/Joe eyeball started off as villains but then became good guys. Same with Mutagen Man really.

Scumbug, Wyrm and Antrax got appearances in the show/Archie series but never seemed to become that popular. Is it because all 3 are based on bugs?

[AcidBurn30]

i think so

but i reading th comic books with Wingnut/Screwloose, they're more solo than good or bad guys..He was more of greed with money...But they're both so cool :)

[Jester]

Um...did you read any of the Mutanimals issues?

[AcidBurn30]

yeah i read them.. but i was aimming when they come back from the planet when they have to wrestle... and Raphael was stuck with the black and blue oil look.. Not only that he also had his OWN comic book too.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Mutanimals would rock if they had their own show, spinoff from the 1987 cartoon. But the problem was some of them were bad guys in the 1987 cartoon.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Post #666!! \m/ :flaming::evil::tevil:



yeah i read them.. but i was aimming when they come back from the planet when they have to wrestle... and Raphael was stuck with the black and blue oil look.. Not only that he also had his OWN comic book too.

.....uhhh....pretty sure Wingnut and Screwloose didn't have their own comic book. Or am I reading AcidBurn30's post wrong?

When I was a kid, I seem to remember alot of the other kids having more mutant ally figures than mutant enemies. My reasoning for basing my opinion on the toys is because most of the supporting cast seemed to originate from the toy line (for the most part, at least). So for my memory, I'd have to say that the allies were more popular, but that's just my experience.

[Foot Soldier Clang]

I think it's impossible for me to see Leatherhead and Wingnut as a good guys. I like some mutant heroes, like Mondo Gecko & Mona Lisa, but that's really it. I think the fewer the mutant allies, the better.

[Jester]

I think it's the Archie fan-boy in me that says, "Bring on the mutant-animals!" Or Mutanimals if you will. :D

[pannoni1]

The problem though is the OT remains the most popular incarnation followed by the movies and video games. And with Rocksteady & Bebop the most popular followed by Fly Baxter (and Leatherhead was a villain in this version). Don't forget all those mutant villains in Red Sky in addition, not to mention all those enemies in the video games. I'd say for casual fans, the mutant villains are more popular, but for the die-hards, the edge goes to the mutant allies, with the main enemies having more an emphasis on Foot/Purple Dragon members.

[Hermano Dyvas]

I prefer mutant villains:
Slash, Bebop & Rocksteady, Tokkah & Rahzar.

From the mutant allies I like Mondo Gecko, Ray Fillet, Wingnut & Screwloose, umm... Slash?

[Jephael]

I think it's the Archie fan-boy in me that says, "Bring on the mutant-animals!" Or Mutanimals if you will. :D

I couldn't have said it any better, man! I love those guys, especially Mondo Gecko! Though I must say I prefer Mona Lisa over Ninjara.

[oldmanwinters]

I vote Villains being the more popular group. Also, most people consider Leatherhead a villain, so that tilts the scales heavily in their favor.

[AcidBurn30]

reading it wrong...sorry i mix it all together lol
i will have to find the names of the comic books so everyone can read it...ALSO the video game fighters for sega have his story...

[Xav]

I don't remember any of those "heroes" besides Leatherhead, Wingnut, and Screwloose who if I recall were villains. So I would have to say no.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Pretty much.

Huge shame the Mutanimals animated show didn't leave the ground. They had potential.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

No, I don't think they are more popular.

Bebop and Rocksteady are remembered more fondly than the rest of those characters put together.

Leatherhead is probably more well known as a villain.

[CyberCubed]

Bebop and Rocksteady are remembered more fondly than the rest of those characters put together.

Leatherhead is probably more well known as a villain.

I am talking other than Rocksteady, Bebop, Leatherhead and fly-Baxter.

It seems other the only other really popular mutant villains were Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, and Armaggon.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I am talking other than Rocksteady, Bebop, Leatherhead and fly-Baxter.

It seems other the only other really popular mutant villains were Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, and Armaggon.

Still, I would say those few villains are more popular than the other characters.

The mutant allies might outnumber them, but that doesn't mean they are as popular.

[juxtapose519]

Despite reading a lot of the comics, I never liked most of the mutant allies. Even as a kid I hated how many new miscellaneous animal friends they would churn out and feature once or twice before they were never heard from again. 1991 was the first year I didn't buy all the toys because I didn't even recognize half the characters.

The villains will always be more memorable to me. Oh, and Leatherhead will always be a villain, and my favourite one at that.

[CyberCubed]

I think they are more popular.

Really outside of Bebop/Rocksteady, Leatherhead, Fly-Baxter, Rahzar/Tokka, and Slash...the others weren't really that popular.

I really like Groundchuck and Dirtbag, but they're pretty obscure for most.

[Mr.Turtle]

thats because the bad guys always lose and nobody likes losers.

[CyberCubed]

thats because the bad guys always lose and nobody likes losers.

Bad guys are the most important part of a heroes rogues gallery. Without good villains any superhero series is bound to fail.

[Mr.Turtle]

o ya? explain how heroes even exist w/o the bad guys fail...

[KROW]

I disagree. I'd say it's pretty fair balanced, if not leaning towards villains being more popular. The majority of the TMNT's mutant allies were known from Archie, not the show. There's no doubt the OT was watched far more than the Archie comic was read. I'm sure if I were to ask casual fans they'd remember fellas like Metalhead over Wingnut. The toyline also helped further the popularity of the villains, I would imagine. The same could probably be said of some of the allies but kids also remember the evil stuff more fondly for their "badass" appearances, I think.

I'm going with Powder on this one. Villains have more staying power over time due to their exposure, making them more memorable and more popular than the turtle friends.


o ya? explain how heroes even exist w/o the bad guys fail...

That's a losing battle and I'd rather be liked.

[Cipher]

All I know is as a kid I considered most new mutant characters de facto villains and thought it was an exception otherwise.

Probably just stemmed from the Fred Wolf cartoon and toyline being more stacked with mutant villains than allies (although, I guess Playmates was actually sort of 50/50, wasn't it?).

Also, they really helped give the TMNT a colorful rogues gallery. And be honest; that's a cooler thing to have than a bunch of allies.

(Also, on the above, I always considered Metalhead and Wingnut villains, and still think of that as their primary setting. Again, Fred Wolf cartoon and Turtles in Time.)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Does anybody know the origins of Al-Falqa & Kathmandu? Mutants (can't be aliens) or just "born that way"? Or maybe from Usagi Yojimbo's alternate reality (which I doubt, as it isn't seen in Archie)?

[MikeandRaph87]

I always thought the villains were more interesting,mutants or otherwise. The Punk Frogs and Mondo Gecko are cool but there are some that are not mutants like Usagi who was pointed out as an intedeminsional being much like the humaniod nuetrios. Archie had Jagwar and Dreadmon who I don't think are classified as mutants and others like the Asian Adventure cast from Archie as referenced above. Regardless the villains are more interesting to me and I thought to fandom when it came to allies and enemies. There so many great characters like Slash,Leatherhead, Armaggon,Bebop,Rocksteady, Scumbug, and a few others. Some I hope will be expanded on like the suprirse usage of Metalhead.

[Mr.Turtle]

i think metalhead can be both good n bad.

[LotusBlossom]

Scumbug, Wyrm and Antrax got appearances in the show/Archie series but never seemed to become that popular. Is it because all 3 are based on bugs?

Maybe their unpopularity is more due to the specific kinds of bugs they were (because, like, two of those three were ugly as hell).

Speaking of which, too bad there was never a tarantula-based character. I bet he/she would have been really popular.

[MikeandRaph87]

Maybe their unpopularity is more due to the specific kinds of bugs they were (because, like, two of those three were ugly as hell).

Speaking of which, too bad there was never a tarantula-based character. I bet he/she would have been really popular.


I never thought of any of those characters as upopular just not exposed enough. None of them are bad characters.

Toxeem, I believe was a trantula-like being.He only appeared once in TMNT Adventures#52. No word if was to appear a second time in The Forever War.

[CyberCubed]

The most popular mutants are the ones who got the most exposure, like Bebop/Rocksteady for being in like 150 episodes or Rahzar/Tokka from the popularity of the second movie.

Leatherhead was a Mirage created character, so logically he'd show up a lot.

Slash became incredibly popular due to the Archie series, his 3 eps in the OT, his action figure, and being a boss in Turtles in Time in the SNES.

Armaggon became popular for being so damn cool. A shark mutant was an awesome idea that should have happened earlier.

I'd say Groundchuck/Dirtbag making it into TMNT III on the NES made them slightly more well known if they weren't.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

There's no doubt the OT was watched far more than the Archie comic was read.

Maybe in the USA. Here in Sweden, a lot of people couldn't get access to cable TV 20 years ago, and were left with two Swedish government-operated channels (as a monopoly was around, commercial channels had to air from the UK), so I've heard about a lot of people who mostly just were reading the comics, their only access to the show would be friends and relatives, and some videotapes who were rerleased (not too many).

[Mr.Turtle]

i like animation better than comics...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Leatherhead was a Mirage created character, so logically he'd show up a lot.



A lot of Mirage characters don't show up at all in the 1987 show/Archie.

[Walkabout]

Correct me if Im wrong, but wasnt Wyrm the most popular figure from the original line?

[Mr.Turtle]

they say it's hard to make animation exactly the same as the comic books...

[LotusBlossom]

Toxeem, I believe was a tarantula-like being.He only appeared once in TMNT Adventures#52. No word if was to appear a second time in The Forever War.

This dorky dude doesn't count, imo:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GPM_01ZOeTo/Tf_XHQeHkbI/AAAAAAAAGHo/oFdQpX0z2ts/s1600/Toxeem01.jpg

In fact, he kinda looks like Carter's "monster mutation", actually (only with a giant spider humping his head).

Plus that's not even really a tarantula (humping his head). Merely a giant "generic" spider-like creature of some sort.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Correct me if Im wrong, but wasnt Wyrm the most popular figure from the original line?

I don't think so, just compare him to Bebop, Rockstready and Slash.

[MikeandRaph87]

This dorky dude doesn't count, imo:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GPM_01ZOeTo/Tf_XHQeHkbI/AAAAAAAAGHo/oFdQpX0z2ts/s1600/Toxeem01.jpg

In fact, he kinda looks like Carter's "monster mutation", actually (only with a giant spider humping his head).

Plus that's not even really a tarantula (humping his head). Merely a giant "generic" spider-like creature of some sort.


:lol: Nice description of the guy! I don't believe the character was ever given an origin. I always thought of him as a bug alien from an another dimension much like Antrax only Antrax looks more ant-like. I don't see Cater's mutant form being anything close to Toxem. Toxem is blue with leg of a trantula while Cater is yellow with a ponytail. Same size and msuclar are the only two things the character have in common when Cater is mutated.

[ngroove]

No.

With every incarnation of Turtles, whether in comics / television / video games the Turtles always needs some opposition, at least punching bags! The same goes for toys; I'm sure every kid loved to swarm the Turtles with as many nasty-lookin' baddies as they could; Shredder, Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, General Traag, Baxter Stockman, Rat King, Leatherhead, Dirtbag, Groundchuck, Wyrm, Scumbug, Wingnut, Screwloose, Scaletail, Slash, Muck Man, Mutagen Man, Tokka, Rahzzar, Triceraton, Chrome Dome...

Even in video games, it probably is a kid, such as me back when,'s excitement, the boss we see we reach to, many times even shout them out, whom we could probably name off the top of our heads.

[ngroove]

I think its odd to say really. Muckman/Joe eyeball started off as villains but then became good guys. Same with Mutagen Man really.

Scumbug, Wyrm and Antrax got appearances in the show/Archie series but never seemed to become that popular. Is it because all 3 are based on bugs?

They were probably popular alright, according to kids everywhere who held their toys, and thought they were pretty mean / nasty / scuzzy looking...and believe me, has there ever been a kid who resisted nasty or scuzzy?

[LotusBlossom]

:lol: Nice description of the guy! ... I don't see Cater's mutant form being anything close to Toxem. Toxem is blue with leg of a trantula while Cater is yellow with a ponytail. Same size and msuclar are the only two things the character have in common when Cater is mutated.


Blue?! Well, apparently one of us must be color-blind, because I'm seeing an orange-y yellow-ish ... which is (more or less) how I'd describe mutant Carter.

[Mr.Turtle]

i donno...i remember when i was a kid, i tended to grab things with bright colors...not that into mean looking monster things like u said.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

i think metalhead can be both good n bad.

Yeah, the same with the Punk Frogs. Being bad, becoming good.

[Mr.Turtle]

it's all depends on how u program him.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

it's all depends on how u program him.

The same with other robots (like MACC) of course.

[Newton Gimmick]

Villains over allies. Most of the time, I used any new mutant figure as a bag guy. With a handful of exceptions. Pretty much only Archie fans are big supporters of the mutant heroes, IMO.

Sure there were a handful of mutant good guys that everyone seems to like, Mondo, Mona, Ace Duck, but in general I think the villains are more universally popular.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Villains over allies. Most of the time, I used any new mutant figure as a bag guy. With a handful of exceptions. Pretty much only Archie fans are big supporters of the mutant heroes, IMO.

Sure there were a handful of mutant good guys that everyone seems to like, Mondo, Mona, Ace Duck, but in general I think the villains are more universally popular.

A lot of talking animals in Archie aren't really mutants.

[Newton Gimmick]

Right, but the point remains the same.

[Mr.Turtle]

i think human villains r more popular coz bishop, orokusaki, hun...the big bosses r always human.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

i think human villains r more popular coz bishop, orokusaki, hun...the big bosses r always human.

Or aliens, like Krang.

[Mr.Turtle]

i dont like krang.

[MikeandRaph87]

i think human villains r more popular coz bishop, orokusaki, hun...the big bosses r always human.

You see,there are only so many human villians. That is my biggest problem with the 2003 cartoon. Shredder and Rat King are made to be inhuman. :( The mutant villians are plentiful and we don't need many more added.We need older characters built upon.

[Mr.Turtle]

wut matters is not the amount but the quality. i dont give a damn abt how many mutant villains there r, only the human villains get more attention bcoz they r more decent looking and intelligent, like kusaki, bishop...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

You see,there are only so many human villians. That is my biggest problem with the 2003 cartoon. Shredder and Rat King are made to be inhuman. :( The mutant villians are plentiful and we don't need many more added.We need older characters built upon.

Most villians work bests as humans, making TMNT more special. But I can accept aliens, and other mutants on both sides too. Ordinary mutants like Mondo Gecko, Bebop and Rocksteady are coller than all those genetic monsters in the 2003 show.