April O'Neil's character design

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Has it ever been explained anywhere what the artists were thinking when they came up with the design for the original April O'Neil?

I know it was the 80's, but the yellow jumpsuit still seems kind of strange. Were jumpsuits really that popular in the 80's? They just as easily could have designed an April that wore one of those tops that looked like football shoulder pads. Or had her with the sweater with one shoulder (maybe not when she was reporting, but in her casual scenes).

If I was on the TMNT creative team, and they said, "design a reporter character", I have to admit, I'd probably make her look like Lois Lane: blouse, skirt, high heels. Maybe since it was the 80's, they would be wacky colors, and her hair would be really big.

I'm not saying that April's character design was bad. Obviously it's memorable considering the cosplays you see at conventions. I just find it bizarre that out of all the possibilities and choices, that's what they ended up with.

I know she wore a jumpsuit in the Mirage comics, but that was one issue, and she was a lab assistant, not a reporter.

[CyberCubed]

Her design was based entirely off of Mirage #2. Even her hairstyle is the same.

[oldmanwinters]

Obviously, the jumpsuit idea came from the second issue of the Mirage comics, but the yellow jumpsuit and white boots were probably a product of either Playmates or Fred Wolf Films input.

I'm really surprised nobody has drawn attention to the similarities between Old Toon April and Mel Bush from the 1986-1987 seasons of Doctor Who.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/mel-st--7c01-shillpages.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/mel-bonnielangford.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/mel-012.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/mel-011.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/mel-002.jpg

I know David Wise has been a huge Doctor Who fan over the years, so it wouldn't surprise me if he somehow influenced the design process for the pilot episodes. I guess somebody could probably ask him on his Facebook page or something.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Her design was based entirely off of Mirage #2. Even her hairstyle is the same.

Like I said though, that's one issue. Once she's no longer a lab assistant, the jumpsuit makes less sense.

Wow, I don't know much about Doctor Who, so that took me by surprise. If I didn't know where those middle screen captures came from, I would think it was some live action Turtles thing.

[pannoni1]

Her yellow jumpsuit seemed to derive from the late '70s anime "Lupin the 3rd", based on the character Fujiko. I have no idea where the red hair for the OT came from, even though O'Neil is a Scottish/Irish surname where red hair is most common.
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k628/yelimsexa/earlyapril.png

[oldmanwinters]

Like I said though, that's one issue. Once she's no longer a lab assistant, the jumpsuit makes less sense.

Wow, I don't know much about Doctor Who, so that took me by surprise. If I didn't know where those middle screen captures came from, I would think it was some live action Turtles thing.

I'm not a Dr. Who fan either (guess I'm not nerdy enough for British Sci-Fi comedy?), but I stumbled upon the character design while looking up info on the show out of curiosity a few months back. I figured some other TMNT fans might find it interesting, but I decided to keep it to myself.

Here's a clip from the episode where Mel first appeared, sporting her April O'Neil outfit.
Terror of the Vervoids:
NR2qyPKmkx8

I don't know if Wise ever watched any Lupin the 3rd back in the 70s, but considering the fact that he almost certainly watched Dr. Who during 1986-1987 and wrote the pilot episodes sometime in '87... the connection just seems to be too uncanny to be coincidental.

[Foot Soldier Clang]

I just assumed they chose that outfit for April because it was easy to color and animate.

[juxtapose519]

I just assumed they chose that outfit for April because it was easy to color and animate.

Would not surprise me.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I don't know what news reporters wear when not being on TV, but one thing that has made me wonder is Irma. Working as a secretary girl, wouldn't she usually be required by her employer to wear something better-looking than a sweater to work, something like a blouse and a skirt. Actually, Irma usually sits just where visitors open the front door, and it's her they usually talk to when they arrive and wonder where someone is, so that would make more sense.

[Jelly Bean]

I think 80's APril is probably the prettiest design out there.

[plastroncafe]

The Doctor Who connection is an interesting one, especially considering the Utroms/Krang are very reminiscent of the aliens inside the Dalek armor.

[oldmanwinters]

Well, this question got to bugging me enough that I actually asked David Wise about it. It turns out (to my absolute shock) that OT April was indeed based off that Lupin III character pannoni suggested. Furthermore, Wise had never even seen the Dr. Who episode in question on account of his local PBS station not having broadcast those episodes yet! So the Mel Bush thing really was just an amazing coincidence!

Here's our exchange:


Me:
Hello, David, a while back a few TMNT fans got to wondering about the inspiration for April O'Neil's design in the classic cartoon.
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=36610

The thought occurred to me that she bore an uncanny resemblance to one of Mel Bush's outfits from the 1986-1987 seasons of Dr. Who, of which I know you're a big fan! I was wondering if you could confirm or deny the Dr. Who/TMNT connection.

David Wise:
April's outfit was based on Fujiko Mine's yellow jumpsuit and mincam from the Japanese anime LUPIN THE THIRD, and someone on the forum correctly surmised!

Me:
Thanks for that clarification! I am a little shocked that the Dr. Who connection didn't have any merit though; red hair/white boots/yellow jumpsuit... it just seemed so obvious!

Did you suggest the outift, or was it already designed prior to your input?

Also, would you mind if I share the real story on the forums?

David Wise:
1) My local PBS station was only showing Tom Baker episodes at the time. I didn't get to see Mel until 1989. BTW I always thought April was a brunette!

2) I described April's outfit in the very first script.

3) Sure, go ahead!

[lizard6king6]

Well, this question got to bugging me enough that I actually asked David Wise about it. It turns out (to my absolute shock) that OT April was indeed based off that Lupin III character pannoni suggested. Furthermore, Wise had never even seen the Dr. Who episode in question on account of his local PBS station not having broadcast those episodes yet! So the Mel Bush thing really was just an amazing coincidence!

Here's our exchange:

Thats pretty cool you received a response. Wherever it was created I always thought it was cool and gave April her own "color" identity like the turtles in the cartoon had.

[Killer Moth]

Well, this question got to bugging me enough that I actually asked David Wise about it. It turns out (to my absolute shock) that OT April was indeed based off that Lupin III character pannoni suggested. Furthermore, Wise had never even seen the Dr. Who episode in question on account of his local PBS station not having broadcast those episodes yet! So the Mel Bush thing really was just an amazing coincidence!

Here's our exchange:

Thank you for clearing that up, as that's been on my mind for a while. The Lupin design does make sense, per Season 1's anime influences. Still, that Mel Bush coincidence was very eerie.

Maybe we should do a thread about "things we should ask David Wise about the 87 series," since now we can. Hmm.

[oldmanwinters]

Thank you for clearing that up, as that's been on my mind for a while. The Lupin design does make sense, per Season 1's anime influences. Still, that Mel Bush coincidence was very eerie.

Maybe we should do a thread about "things we should ask David Wise about the 87 series," since now we can. Hmm.

I'm no Lupin fan, but apparently that franchise has had a long run that is comparable to Scooby-Doo. I haven't found any clear screencaps on the net that show the character in a comparable outfit.

Any idea which incarnation of the character (http://www.freewebs.com/lupinthe3rd_evolution/fujikosevolution.htm) he might have gotten the yellow jumpsuit and mini-cam idea from?

While David Wise seems like he's one of the few creative minds who doesn't mind talking in detail about his work on the classic series, I wouldn't recommend we starting flooding his inbox(s) with oodles of TMNT questions. It just seems a little rude; hence, why I waited so long to actually contact him in the first place. So... I guess that just means use discretion.

[MikeandRaph87]

My anime knowledge is primarily Pokemon,Digimon,and Dragonball. With that and the fact I am away from a computer the rest of the night so would someone post a picture of of this Lupin The Third design?Thanks and thanks Mr. Winters and one of my two favorite cartoon writers of all time.

[TurtleTitan97]

[QUOTE=mikeandraph87;926194 With that and the fact I am away from a computer the rest of the night so would someone post a picture of of this Lupin The Third design?Thanks and thanks Mr. Winters and one of my two favorite cartoon writers of all time.[/QUOTE]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3tN491hHHkk/S0S7oe-jdHI/AAAAAAAAJ_s/zX0zLopW2qA/s400/lupin.jpg

[Killer Moth]

I'm no Lupin fan, but apparently that franchise has had a long run that is comparable to Scooby-Doo. I haven't found any clear screencaps on the net that show the character in a comparable outfit.

Any idea which incarnation of the character (http://www.freewebs.com/lupinthe3rd_evolution/fujikosevolution.htm) he might have gotten the yellow jumpsuit and mini-cam idea from?

While David Wise seems like he's one of the few creative minds who doesn't mind talking in detail about his work on the classic series, I wouldn't recommend we starting flooding his inbox(s) with oodles of TMNT questions. It just seems a little rude; hence, why I waited so long to actually contact him in the first place. So... I guess that just means use discretion.

It's a tad surprising, as was Lupin popular back in 1987? Anime didn't make its true mainstream popularity in America until the mid 90's with the rise of Sailor Moon and DBZ. (And the same can be said for Who in the mid 2000's with the rise of BBC America.) Still, it's a nice tidbit to include it, and good for Wise to put it in.

Of course, your point to not flood his inbox with all these fan questions is well taken. I didn't imply that we should, but was thinking outloud with "if you could." Actually, in my top 5 questions for him, April's character design isn't one of them, but very good to know.

In his contributions with the 25th anniversary DVD documentary, he was rather open and affable. Nice to see that confirmed, as, frankly, he didn't have to answer you. Last I checked, wasn't he the head of a manga or anime company? Either way, he clearly has more important things to do with his time, so, again, discretion to be used at best or worst.

[Avatar Yuffie]

That's so cool of David Wise to answer this. Many thanks.

[MikeandRaph87]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3tN491hHHkk/S0S7oe-jdHI/AAAAAAAAJ_s/zX0zLopW2qA/s400/lupin.jpg


Thanks,Turtle Titan97. I could have looked it up but I have been away from a computer several hours and iPhones are much harder to navigate. :tgrin:

[TurtleTitan97]

Thanks,Turtle Titan97. I could have looked it up but I have been away from a computer several hours and iPhones are much harder to navigate. :tgrin:

No problem dude. Glad I could help.:tcool:

[Fugitoid Jones]

I always figured her design was primarily based off her jumpsuit appearance in issue 2 of Mirage vol.1, but it's interesting to hear about another influence. Thanks for looking into this oldmanwinters!

[Sage Ninja]

oh my gosh, April O'Neil was modeled after Fujiko! That is something because whenever I draw April O'Neil's body I always use Fujiko as a body model.


http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs46/i/2009/233/d/0/April_pose_front_and_back_by_patou244.jpg

When I drew these drawings of April I used these shots of Fujiko to get the body figure and bust right:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-EBIHYkqOWU/S0PmSM9crVI/AAAAAAAABSg/E4-lSJ-pLMQ/s400/Mine+Fujiko.jpg http://cs.dogpile.com/ClickHandler.ashx?ru=http%3a%2f%2fwww.godoon.com%2 fgallery%2fmedia%2flupin-the-3rd%2fmine-fujiko%2f4883f120-d81e-11df-8228-a8bfc396a36f.jpg&du=www.godoon.com&ld=20120404&ap=13&app=1&c=info.dogpl&s=dogpile&coi=372380&cop=main-title&euip=207.206.236.2&npp=13&p=0&pp=0&pvaid=d81ae8aa2f2b425b856ec7c1a4044453&sid=1830193568.365175385847.1333556473&vid=1830193568.365175385847.1333556473.1&fcoi=4&fcop=results-bottom&fpid=2&ep=13&mid=9&hash=7DACC95D82F11B827F1088E4EFE6BDDB

[oldmanwinters]

Interesting observations, Sage Ninja!

I'm surprised at how similar Fujiko's posture is to April's style guide model in that last picture you posted:

http://cs.dogpile.com/ClickHandler.ashx?ru=http%3a%2f%2fwww.godoon.com%2 fgallery%2fmedia%2flupin-the-3rd%2fmine-fujiko%2f4883f120-d81e-11df-8228-a8bfc396a36f.jpg&du=www.godoon.com&ld=20120404&ap=13&app=1&c=info.dogpl&s=dogpile&coi=372380&cop=main-title&euip=207.206.236.2&npp=13&p=0&pp=0&pvaid=d81ae8aa2f2b425b856ec7c1a4044453&sid=1830193568.365175385847.1333556473&vid=1830193568.365175385847.1333556473.1&fcoi=4&fcop=results-bottom&fpid=2&ep=13&mid=9&hash=7DACC95D82F11B827F1088E4EFE6BDDBhttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Screencaps/aprilreport.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JQ4c8Pel.jpg (http://imgur.com/JQ4c8Pe)

[Sage Ninja]

during the April O'Neil remodel contest I was going to submit an updated April O'Neil with longer hair in the same style as Fujiko's from the Red Jacket series:

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k628/yelimsexa/earlyapril.png http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3tN491hHHkk/S0S7oe-jdHI/AAAAAAAAJ_s/zX0zLopW2qA/s400/lupin.jpg

but it never came to fruitation because I couldn't get her to look right and after several attempts the contest was over and I shelved the idea. It's too bad, if I had only gotten it to look right in time I think it would have been good. The prototypes looked like they could have been awsomne I but I trouble with the body and getting the longer hair to look right and still look like April. I'm not as good as some other people on here who can make April's face look indentical to her character design in the show, and I'm anal over things like that. I prefere to draw characters so that they actually look like the characters, so that they can be more believable as an up graded version.

[MikeandRaph87]

Contest over or not I am sure that we all would like to see it still to see what you had in mind. Some fan ideas are right up there with cannon material and designs.

[Sage Ninja]

Contest over or not I am sure that we all would like to see it still to see what you had in mind. Some fan ideas are right up there with cannon material and designs.

Hey thanks so much! Maybe when my semester is over I'll take another crack at it. I think one of my problems is that I attempt things that maybe too comiplicated or out of my skill range before I'm ready and I get frustrated when I can't get it right. Back in the day before entering high School I used to to draw all the time and I was pretty decent at it, then I got busy and dropped it for a while and unfortunatley my skill suffered as well and I'm not as profient as I used to be.

[Cryomancer]

A brand new Fujiko-centric Lupin show just started airing a few days ago, if this thread is making anyone interested in checking out Lupin that would be a decent place to start. Know that it has a lot of nudity in it's first episode, although it's overall pretty tasteful and logical to the theme and scene.

I'm not sure exactly which episode/movie they saw that had Fujiko wearing yellow with a camera, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is one. She doesn't tend to stick to any one outfit, disguises herself a lot, and there's over 40 years of material for that appearance to have occurred in. If I were to guess though, it's mostly likely an episode of the second TV series. If I happen upon the scene in question when I get around to watching more, I'll take some screenshots and post em in here.

[Sage Ninja]

A brand new Fujiko-centric Lupin show just started airing a few days ago, if this thread is making anyone interested in checking out Lupin that would be a decent place to start. Know that it has a lot of nudity in it's first episode, although it's overall pretty tasteful and logical to the theme and scene

are you sure it's a new series or is it just another annual Lupin the 3rd movie special?

[Cryomancer]

It's a new show. There's already a second episode.

[saul]

Any chance David Wise would share his pilot scripts with us? It would sure be fun to read how he describes the characters and their personalities.

Maybe he could sell his old script copies on ebay like Francis Moss is doing.

[Stingray69]

So does this mean we where wrong all these years on calling April a red head?

[Sage Ninja]

no she's a red head. Her hair was mostly depicted as being a softer, muted orange-red color. Only on certain ocassions did her hair look brown, or auburn. Besides I prefere her as red head any way. Makes her seem more interesting.

[Luzmagica]

Amazing!!!! I didnt know it!!! Thanks a lot for sharing this info! :o :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin: :tgrin: :tcool:

[NameGoesHere1066]

why is April's head pointy here?

[Stingray69]

why is April's head pointy here?

She's jersey shoring it with a hair bump.

Cabs are here!

[Sage Ninja]

why is April's head pointy here?

that was a mistake on my part. However you'll notice if you look at the April O'Neil picture OMW posted her head is kind of pointy. I blame the 80's for that one.

[Lisardo]

I don't know what news reporters wear when not being on TV, but one thing that has made me wonder is Irma. Working as a secretary girl, wouldn't she usually be required by her employer to wear something better-looking than a sweater to work, something like a blouse and a skirt. Actually, Irma usually sits just where visitors open the front door, and it's her they usually talk to when they arrive and wonder where someone is, so that would make more sense.

The sweater part was probably ok (the receptionist I work with wears them, tho they are more flattering and professional-looking). It's the ugly skirt I never understood.

One other thing that bugged me about April's attire, why didn't she ever wear casual clothing? She was always in the yellow jumpsuit. In real life, she'd never wear that thing around all over, she'd look weird, like some construction worker or something. Only in one or two eps did I EVER see her wear casual clothes.

In general, jumpsuits weren't worn by reporters, even in the 80s I don't think. I agree with the other poster about how most reporters look more like Lois Lane with a button-up blouse, jacket and short skirt. Not to say I didn't like her yellow jumpsuit, but it was pretty "loud" and gawdy for a reporter's uniform.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Sorry to bump this old thread (there's not a rule against it here, is there? I know of a few forums where it is is why I ask), but after I found out about this in another thread, I went poking around, and I found this.

http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/sage_Lupin_the_Third_-_Mine_Fujiko_to_Iu_Onna_-_07_720p10bit92B0CE00.mkv_snapshot_03.23_2012.05.2 4_12.32.27-494x277.jpg

This is from that newer Lupin the 3rd show about Fujiko herself, but it kind of looks like a reference to that outfit as well doesn't it?

Found this one as well. She definitely looks April-ish here.

http://i.imgur.com/b9yDX.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

Sorry to bump this old thread (there's not a rule against it here, is there? I know of a few forums where it is is why I ask), but after I found out about this in another thread, I went poking around, and I found this.

http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/sage_Lupin_the_Third_-_Mine_Fujiko_to_Iu_Onna_-_07_720p10bit92B0CE00.mkv_snapshot_03.23_2012.05.2 4_12.32.27-494x277.jpg

This is from that newer Lupin the 3rd show about Fujiko herself, but it kind of looks like a reference to that outfit as well doesn't it?

Found this one as well. She definitely looks April-ish here.

http://i.imgur.com/b9yDX.jpg

Nice finds, Gyt Kaliba! Those yellow shirts really are a blast-from-the-past.

I've not yet figured out what episodes Wise must have watched to inspire April O'Neil's original look, but the closet thing I can identify is a late scene from the fantastic (seriously, I'm not even a Lupin fan and I love it) Castle of Cagliostro movie.

Fujiko masquerades as a number of different professions in order to pull off a theft from the Castle, but near the end of the movie she pretends to be a reporter in a pink jumpsuit.
http://i.imgur.com/7XlGWsHl.jpg (http://imgur.com/7XlGWsH)
http://i.imgur.com/gBlUhHXl.jpg (http://imgur.com/gBlUhHX)

After she takes off her pink jumpsuit disguise, she runs around in camo-pattern jumpsuit with some knee-high boots:
http://i.imgur.com/ZBMGiIFl.jpg (http://imgur.com/ZBMGiIF)
http://i.imgur.com/RsH4Ymtl.jpg (http://imgur.com/RsH4Ymt)
http://i.imgur.com/zoobdcQl.jpg (http://imgur.com/zoobdcQ)
http://i.imgur.com/eGgbvhwl.jpg (http://imgur.com/eGgbvhw)

And... because I just happened to see this somewhere (can't remember the reference) and thought it might be more than just a coincidence:
http://i.imgur.com/8RP8JKel.jpg (http://imgur.com/8RP8JKe)
http://i.imgur.com/drNkmg2l.jpg (http://imgur.com/drNkmg2)

I don't know much about the early broadcast history of Lupin III in America, but my guess would be that Wise wouldn't have had access to too many episodes. I don't even know that he saw Castle of Cagliostro before 1987. Maybe Fujiko wore a yellow jumpsuit in an early episode or maybe Wise just forgot the colors on the jumpsuit in Castle of Cagliostro?

[Gyt Kaliba]

Thanks, it's my pleasure to try and help. It's not too often that my anime and TMNT fandoms get to work together as nicely as this, so I definitely wanted to see what I could find out.:D

I've not yet figured out what episodes Wise must have watched to inspire April O'Neil's original look, but the closet thing I can identify is a late scene from the fantastic (seriously, I'm not even a Lupin fan and I love it) Castle of Cagliostro movie.

Oh wow, I completely FORGOT about that from Castle of Cagliostro. Hmm...that gives me some more questions and some thoughts, but before I get to that -

And... because I just happened to see this somewhere (can't remember the reference) and thought it might be more than just a coincidence:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/fujiko-drive.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/fujiko-drive2.jpg

Oh wow! That has to be from the second Lupin the 3rd TV series, due to the Adult Swim logo, as that's the only one that ever got released here (until recently), though we've had plenty of the specials/movies/etc. over the years.

I don't know much about the early broadcast history of Lupin III in America, but my guess would be that Wise wouldn't have had access to too many episodes. I don't even know that he saw Castle of Cagliostro before 1987. Maybe Fujiko wore a yellow jumpsuit in an early episode or maybe Wise just forgot the colors on the jumpsuit in Castle of Cagliostro?

I'm by no means a Lupin expert, even though I am a pretty big fan, but I want to say that the first things for the series we got here had to be the Cagliostro film and some episodes of the second TV series. Cagliostro would have come first I think. So, are we absolutely sure that it was episodes that Wise saw and not this movie? It just seems the most likely source, and like you said he either forgot that it was a pink jumpsuit, or he changed it to yellow for some reason or another.

This makes me wonder if someone in Japan is aware of how this went down though. If it is the pink jumpsuit and not another part where she had a yellow one, then them doing the jumpsuit look yet again in the new Fujiko series and making it YELLOW this time seems awfully coincidental doesn't it?

As a final info bit - it's no wonder you like Cagliostro even if you're not a Lupin fan. Don't know if you're into his stuff or not, but Cagliostro is kind of a special film for the Lupin franchise, in that it was done by Hayao Miyazaki, the same guy behind stuff like Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Ponyo, and so on. His stuff is pretty much considered good even outside of anime fans. :P

[Cryomancer]

Only problem with Cagliostro is that it feels more Miyazaki than ti does Lupin, if that makes any sense.

I would say Cagliostro is indeed a very likely source for them to have seen, especially in the 80s, but it's hard to say for sure. TV industry people tend to see overseas stuff well before most of the public does, just as part of the job. I said second series is likely earlier in this thread, but those Cagliostro screenshots are pretty compelling too.

[Mewzard]

Only problem with Cagliostro is that it feels more Miyazaki than ti does Lupin, if that makes any sense.

I would say Cagliostro is indeed a very likely source for them to have seen, especially in the 80s, but it's hard to say for sure. TV industry people tend to see overseas stuff well before most of the public does, just as part of the job. I said second series is likely earlier in this thread, but those Cagliostro screenshots are pretty compelling too.

Actually, that doesn't make sense. Simply because:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki

"Miyazaki left Toei in 1971 for Mushi Production, A Pro, Nippon Animation, and TMS Entertainment where he co-directed six episodes of the first Lupin III series with Isao Takahata."

"Miyazaki then left Nippon Animation in 1979 in the middle of the production of Anne of Green Gables to direct his first feature anime The Castle of Cagliostro (1979), a Lupin III adventure film."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupin_III

"This series, in which Lupin wears a red jacket, was broadcast for 155 episodes, with the last one airing on October 6, 1980. Episodes 145 and 155 were directed by Hayao Miyazaki under the pseudonym Teruki Tsutomu, and they marked his final involvement with the Lupin franchise"

Miyazaki's early career was working on Lupin the 3rd.

And April's costume was inspired by Fujiko from Lupin the 3rd? That's awesome. I loved watching that show on Adult Swim at it's ridiculous 4AM timeslot...and they wonder why it didn't work? >_>

[Cryomancer]

Yeah, he did some episodes, and they are good episodes too. But Cagliostro still has a feel more like the other Miyazaki films than it is like other Lupin material, in my opinion.

Interestingly enough, Lupin also sort of has a Mirage vs OT thing where the original manga is a lot more violent and serious compared to it's more famous and humorous TV shows. The first show (and the new Fujiko show) are probably closer to the manga than the second show, which is the long-running, more comedic, most famous one. But then again I have yet to ever have the chance to actually read the manga myself, so it might not be quite as pronounced as people make it out to be.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Only problem with Cagliostro is that it feels more Miyazaki than ti does Lupin, if that makes any sense.

I feel the same way actually. I love Cagliostro, it's a great film, but it's definitely closer in vibe to Miyazaki's normal works than it is to Lupin. So while it's a really good movie, it's kind of only a 'decent' Lupin film.

Then again, I forget the title, but there's an actually Lupin film or special that's managed to put me to SLEEP, something Cagliostro could never cause, so take that as you will.:lol:

I would say Cagliostro is indeed a very likely source for them to have seen, especially in the 80s, but it's hard to say for sure. TV industry people tend to see overseas stuff well before most of the public does, just as part of the job. I said second series is likely earlier in this thread, but those Cagliostro screenshots are pretty compelling too.

Hmm...you have a point. I was kind of going towards thinking it had to be Cagliostro now, since that was the only thing available here at that time I think (if even it was), but there's a lot of other ways he could have seen ANY of it. Either way, I'll be looking out for that kind of outfit for Fujiko in anything old from Lupin that I get to watch now, and if I find anything I'll post it.

Miyazaki's early career was working on Lupin the 3rd.

Not clipping the rest of your post to disregard it, just trying to keep my reply from being any bigger than it has to be.

Miyazaki certainly did get started on Lupin, but in general his work on Lupin episodes was probably more 'strict' than what he was allowed to do in Cagliostro. I haven't seen the episodes in question, but I'd bet he probably had to keep things closer to standard Lupin practices, whereas in Cagliostro he was allowed to 'go wild' as it were.

And April's costume was inspired by Fujiko from Lupin the 3rd? That's awesome. I loved watching that show on Adult Swim at it's ridiculous 4AM timeslot...and they wonder why it didn't work? >_>

Yeah, Lupin's never gotten superb treatment over here sadly, which is why I'm thankful for every little thing we get for it.

Interestingly enough, Lupin also sort of has a Mirage vs OT thing where the original manga is a lot more violent and serious compared to it's more famous and humorous TV shows. The first show (and the new Fujiko show) are probably closer to the manga than the second show, which is the long-running, more comedic, most famous one. But then again I have yet to ever have the chance to actually read the manga myself, so it might not be quite as pronounced as people make it out to be.

I've only read a few volumes of the manga, and...well...I'm not sure I'd go so far as to compare it to Mirage V.S. OT. There's definitely some tone changes and such just like what happened there, but I'm not sure I'd put it on that same level. Personally, anyway.

The original manga has an artstyle very akin to early MAD magazine artwork (was even inspired by that if I recall right), the Lupin gang isn't really a 'gang' at all (you're lucky to see Lupin and Jigen together in it, and there's not really a 'Fujiko' per say, just lots of busty women), and in it Lupin is a lot more potentially vile than in the usual anime adaptations. It's heavily implied, in gag form no less, that he rapes a lot of the women he meets...so yeah, the anime version of Lupin that most people know is a little different from the manga. I actually prefer the slightly toned down version myself.

Anyway...sorry for going off on the deep end about Lupin here, but hopefully some of it also flows back into the conversation at hand too.

[shihe]

I think 80's APril is probably the prettiest design out there.


Same here. :)

I love OT April a lot. It's by far my favorite version.



I would love to see that version again but add the fighting ability from the newer cartoons (and the comics)

[Cryomancer]

Good stuff

Glad I'm not alone on the Cagliostro thing. And yeah the implied rape and lack of any "team" dynamic is sort of the tone shift sort of stuff I meant with my comparison. I agree that Lupin is more enjoyable when you can actually like the guy, so it's not like I want that sort of thing going on in the TV specials or anything.

[SoundBlaster7]

Same here. :)

I love OT April a lot. It's by far my favorite version.



I would love to see that version again but add the fighting ability from the newer cartoons (and the comics)

Completely agree! Best of both worlds. :tsmile:

[Lisardo]

Sorry to bump this old thread (there's not a rule against it here, is there? I know of a few forums where it is is why I ask), but after I found out about this in another thread, I went poking around, and I found this.

http://chocolatesyrupywaffles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/sage_Lupin_the_Third_-_Mine_Fujiko_to_Iu_Onna_-_07_720p10bit92B0CE00.mkv_snapshot_03.23_2012.05.2 4_12.32.27-494x277.jpg

This is from that newer Lupin the 3rd show about Fujiko herself, but it kind of looks like a reference to that outfit as well doesn't it?

Found this one as well. She definitely looks April-ish here.

http://i.imgur.com/b9yDX.jpg

So is this 80s April's inspiration? Wouldn't be surprized considering it was a Japanese animation studio that animated the first season of TMNT.

[Cryomancer]

Those are screenshots from a pretty recent TV show, so no, not those specifically.

[oldmanwinters]

I know that David Wise and his contributions to TMNT history has been a hot topic of debate on another thread, but I figured I'd at least post this update here for posterity's sake.

On his FB account this week (https://www.facebook.com/david.wise.148/posts/10203669062899860?comment_id=10203678402013332&offset=0&total_comments=38&notif_t=share_reply), Wise posted a screencap of the Lupin III episode in which Fujiko is wearing the yellow jumpsuit/white boots which came to be associated with April O'Neil in the old show:
http://i.imgur.com/f5MOWmSl.jpg (http://imgur.com/f5MOWmS)

I'm not a Lupin fan, so I have no idea which episode that was, but that is the first visual evidence I've seen on the specific look being copied. The middle picture of the statue is the outfit that Fujiko wore in Castle of Caligostro in which she did pose as a news reporter.

[ehh123]

http://www.crunchyroll.com/lupin-the-third-part-2/episode-155-thieves-love-the-peace-685769

This is the episode of Lupin III where the Yellow Jumpsuit comes from.

[oldmanwinters]

http://www.crunchyroll.com/lupin-the-third-part-2/episode-155-thieves-love-the-peace-685769

This is the episode of Lupin III where the Yellow Jumpsuit comes from.

Hey, thanks so much for finding that fact! Do you know if it showed up in only one episode?

[ssjup81]

I'm curious of the episode. I can't use Crunchyroll since I'm out of the region. Can you tell me what ep/season it is? Is it from the 1971 series or later?

[neatoman]

I find it kind of strange that Fujiko is stated as an inspiration when the cartoon seems like it's just a cleaned up version of what she looked in issue two. But then again, they did arbitrarily decide to make Stockman white and give the Utrom-esque character a non-Utrom backstory for no reason

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I find it kind of strange that Fujiko is stated as an inspiration when the cartoon seems like it's just a cleaned up version of what she looked in issue two. But then again, they did arbitrarily decide to make Stockman white and give the Utrom-esque character a non-Utrom backstory for no reason
Yeah, considering that she was already wearing a jumpsuit in her first Mirage appearance, I think it's more so that when Wise saw her in the jumpsuit, he latched on to it because it reminded him of Fujiko. And, then he decided that their version of April should resemble Fujiko somewhat.

[NeonTurtledude]

Here's another picture of Fujiko I found where she looks like April, taken from one of the openings, wearing a yellow raincoat

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmmBLOFWAAAjG_3?format=png&name=small

[neatoman]

Seriously, why keep citing Fujiko?


Her first appearence had a jumpsuit and a similar haircut to the cartoon:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oMe1mDj3LVQ/WnYfYORrxBI/AAAAAAAATHA/abv7jRjbNwsth0JYRCKIUADc4N8q6TBQQCLcBGAs/s1600/02-5.jpg

And here's the cover by Richard Corben, still made well before the cartoon was in production. It's basically the same design aside from the color of the jumpsuit:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/dd/bf/efddbf7ee61f580c45c1886f3d1f73bb.png

I know David Wise said Fujiko was an inspiration (though I can't really get a source on when and where he said it), but David Wise was known for straight up lying in interviews to make himself seem more important to the TMNT franchise than he really was, I seriously he'd ever admit the character designers probably just used Corben's design as a basis.

The Lupin III anime had a total of 228 episodes and four movies by the time TMNT aired, if the character had a tendency to keep changing outfit/haircuts and had reasons to wear jumpsuits a few times, then of course she would have elements at some point that would resemble April's cartoon design. If there is one instance of her wearing a pink jumpsuit with pockets, on instance of her wearing a yellow jumpsuit with white boots, one instance of he having a haircut similar to April's and one instance of her... Looking out of a car window like April does in the intro... Yeah... Then these could just be coincidences.

What seems more likely than April's design being directly based on Fujiko's to me, is that someone noticed these similarities, asked David Wise about it and he just rolled with it because it made him look more important.

Here's another picture of Fujiko I found where she looks like April, taken from one of the openings, wearing a yellow raincoat

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmmBLOFWAAAjG_3?format=png&name=small

This one is easily the biggest stretch aside from looking out a car window, at least with the pink jumpsuit there are a few more similar elements and the yellow one matches both the color and type of outfit. This one is just color.

The thing is, if a character wears a lot of outfits then they will effectively have a multitude of designs and you could probably find multiple characters who wore something similar at some point. You could probably take characters like Fujiko, Bulma, Mary Jane Watson... Or hell, even Mirage April, now that I think about it... And find a similar looking character for any of them somewhere, probably more than one the more designs they have.

I'm willing to bet that if you keep any of Fujiko's designs in mind and were to look, you'd find way more characters who "could have been inspired by her". For that matter, I'm pretty sure you could do something similar in reverse, take the design of 2003 or 2012 April and find a similar looking character who predate them and could thus "have been the inspiration" or later characters they "could have inspired".

[AlZarkovski]

Her first appearence had a jumpsuit and a similar haircut to the cartoon:

And here's the cover by Richard Corben, still made well before the cartoon was in production. It's basically the same design aside from the color of the jumpsuit:

I know David Wise said Fujiko was an inspiration (though I can't really get a source on when and where he said it), but David Wise was known for straight up lying in interviews to make himself seem more important to the TMNT franchise than he really was, I seriously he'd ever admit the character designers probably just used Corben's design as a basis.

I don't think David Wise was lying. He just made a mix of designs from April Mirage and Fujiko. The basis of the design was definitely taken from Mirage, but some of the elements (yellow jumpsuit, white boots and light anime styling) were taken from Fujiko. There is one particular episode that Wise was talking about and I definitely see similarities in this particular version of Fujiko with April.

https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/70/02/6e/MEI52VV_t.jpg (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEI52VV)https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/82/58/c6/MEI52VW_t.jpg (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEI52VW)https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/2b/1b/ed/MEI52VX_t.jpg (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEI52VX)

[oldmanwinters]

I don't think David Wise was lying. He just made a mix of designs from April Mirage and Fujiko. The basis of the design was definitely taken from Mirage, but some of the elements (yellow jumpsuit, white boots and light anime styling) were taken from Fujiko. There is one particular episode that Wise was talking about and I definitely see similarities in this particular version of Fujiko with April.


Agreed!

Here are a couple of archived Facebook posts where Wise talks about the April-Fujiko connection:

https://i.imgur.com/JXgiFBJl.jpg

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4RUXdYD9K69fifV0mWVVOgo_AKeNBqs/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EQFRNX-jN2-bRMQC7gbEehobelBcfmZ-/view?usp=drivesdk
Aforementioned article:
https://screencrush.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-animated-series/

Edit: updated Drive links sharing settings, should open now

[neatoman]

I don't think David Wise was lying. He just made a mix of designs from April Mirage and Fujiko. The basis of the design was definitely taken from Mirage, but some of the elements (yellow jumpsuit, white boots and light anime styling) were taken from Fujiko. There is one particular episode that Wise was talking about and I definitely see similarities in this particular version of Fujiko with April.

https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/70/02/6e/MEI52VV_t.jpg (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEI52VV)https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/82/58/c6/MEI52VW_t.jpg (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEI52VW)https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/2b/1b/ed/MEI52VX_t.jpg (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEI52VX)

Agreed!

Here are a couple of archived Facebook posts where Wise talks about the April-Fujiko connection:

https://i.imgur.com/JXgiFBJl.jpg

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4RUXdYD9K69fifV0mWVVOgo_AKeNBqs/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EQFRNX-jN2-bRMQC7gbEehobelBcfmZ-/view?usp=drivesdk
Aforementioned article:
https://screencrush.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-animated-series/

The problem is that part of Wise's lying has involved the addition of references to things outside of Mirage, even when it made very little. One of of the things he stated is that the idea for Krang came from him needing to come up with a reason advanced Technology to be thing, so he took inspiration from some old movie about a disembodied brain monster and added the idea of the robotic body as the reason for Shredder to be involved. The problem is of course that if you know about the Utroms, this statement makes no sense, Krang is obviously just loosely adapted from the Utroms. And the less said about how he states in the posted interview that he came up with the Turtles' personalities despite the packet Mirage sent to Playmates described what they were supposed to be and how the Avengers movie somehow copied his work, the less this post will become a wall of text.

Likewise, the reason I can't trust David Wise's claim that he based April's design on Fujiko is because he made these sorts of questionable claims all the time. If you want a breakdown of the reasons I find the claim dubious, here's a list of them:

As already stated, April's design is virtually identical to what Corben drew, which was in turn based on what she looked like in her first appearance. It's really just color that's the big difference.
April's toy was part of the first wave of action figures, which would imply the basic design of what she was going to look like probably floated around before David Wise was involved.
Him describing what April should look like in the script means... What exactly? Describing what he had been shown from Playmates and Mirage? Generically describing a jumpsuit? Or does it mean the script said something like "Go look up Fujiko Mine, there's like one outfit that is a pink jumpsuit with pockets and a different one that is yellow with white boots, please copy the former with the color scheme of the latter"? Seems odd if it's the last one.
The mention of Mel Bush brings up the point of being able to find similar design elements between almost any characters if you look hard enough, the more outfits the characters wear, the easier it will get. Are we going to assume the costume designer for Doctor Who also took inspiration from Lupin III? And isn't it possible that "Yellow Jumpsuit" or "Jumpsuit with Pockets" is a generic enough description to match even more characters outside of these three? What if those jumpsuit designs are just generic enough to have been common in the real world?
Finally, let's note here that Wise brings up Fujiko in reference to someone pointing it out in this thread, he did not bring it up independently. This is what I meant about him potentially being told about it before making the statement, it made it so much easier for him to distract from the fact that the April's design basically already existed in the comics if something similar existed, even if it might just be a coincidence. Give a liar the string and he'll have a way easier time stringing you along.


I'm not saying it's impossible for Fujiko to have been the inspiration somewhere along the line but the assertions comes from speculation and a known liar with a messed up ego who was aware of the speculation, not to mention how we have at least one other who wore a nearly identical outfit in Doctor Who, which really just compounds the strong possibility that this could all just be coincidence.

Hell, if we're going speculate on which characters might have influenced April's design based on something as generic as her wearing a fairly plain looking jumpsuit, remember how many colorisations of April's first appearance makes the outfit blue? We also know Eastman and Laird were fans of Alien, so doesn't make Ellen Ripley a valid possibility for April's design?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Ellen_ripley.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

Hell, if we're going speculate on which characters might have influenced April's design based on something as generic as her wearing a fairly plain looking jumpsuit, remember how many colorisations of April's first appearance makes the outfit blue? We also know Eastman and Laird were fans of Alien, so doesn't make Ellen Ripley a valid possibility for April's design?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Ellen_ripley.jpg

And maybe Sigourney also helped inspire Mirage April’s perm in issue 4!

[neatoman]

And maybe Sigourney also helped inspire Mirage April’s perm in issue 4!

Rewatched Avatar recently, I mostly brought up Ripley to demonstrate that a jumpsuit may be too generic of a design element to draw any conclusions from... But then it hit me...
https://medias.spotern.com/spots/share/351/351245-1631699370.png
Yeah, that's a blue jumpsuit like in Mirage, with front pockets and rolled up sleaves just like with Fujiko and Fred Wolf. My god, I can't tell if it's an homage to her outfit in Alien, if it's a tribute to E&L for basing April on her or if that random Fujiko design is just that influential on character design! Maybe they wanted to pay homage to Fred Wolf April but were afraid the BBC would sue if they mistook her for that one Doctor Who character?

That's at least five characters we can connect with this design element.

[oldmanwinters]

Yeah, the jumpsuit/coverall look was weirdly popular on ladies of the 70s and 80s! See also the 1978 Kitty O’Neil action figure/doll Or Daphne in The 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo from 1985!

[neatoman]

Kitty O'Neil?...

... Oh!

And now I'm starting to think the yellow color scheme might just been a joke about her name.

[NeonTurtledude]

Yeah, the jumpsuit/coverall look was weirdly popular on ladies of the 70s and 80s! See also the 1978 Kitty O’Neil action figure/doll Or Daphne in The 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo from 1985!

and some 1987 tmnt staff did used to work for disney and hanna barbara

[AlZarkovski]

[LIST=1]
As already stated, April's design is virtually identical to what Corben drew, which was in turn based on what she looked like in her first appearance. It's really just color that's the big difference.
April's toy was part of the first wave of action figures, which would imply the basic design of what she was going to look like probably floated around before David Wise was involved.

I don't want to be David Wise's lawyer, I don't know him at all, maybe he was a liar (I need to watch full interviews with him so I can form my opinion). But I don't see any reason why he couldn't just suggest changing the color of April's jumpsuit from blue to yellow when he remembered Fujiko.

I'm guessing (maybe I'm wrong) that the character designs for the show and the figurines were done at the same time. It was a kind of "room of ideas" where Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird and the developers from MWS and Playmates were. I think Wise was there too and that's when the idea of the yellow jumpsuit was proposed.

[oldmanwinters]

Kitty O'Neil?...

... Oh!

And now I'm starting to think the yellow color scheme might just been a joke about her name.

Both O'Neil were quite adept at handling vehicles at high speeds!
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6njxdpe4qs89azg/Speed_Reporter-April_O%2527Neil.wmv/file

[neatoman]

I don't want to be David Wise's lawyer, I don't know him at all, maybe he was a liar (I need to watch full interviews with him so I can form my opinion). But I don't see any reason why he couldn't just suggest changing the color of April's jumpsuit from blue to yellow when he remembered Fujiko.

I'm guessing (maybe I'm wrong) that the character designs for the show and the figurines were done at the same time. It was a kind of "room of ideas" where Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird and the developers from MWS and Playmates were. I think Wise was there too and that's when the idea of the yellow jumpsuit was proposed.

The Corben cover is an alt cover and the contents of issue 2 were (as far as I know) still only in available in black and white. The yellow color could just as easily have been chosen at random, as previously stated, Mel Bush wore a nearly identical outfit on Doctor Who and Kitty O'Neil did as well. If we ignore color, we can also find even more instances of similar outfits. And as I keep saying, Fujiko Mine is a character who wears a lot of different outfits, the odds of her bearing a resemblance to other characters is very high as a result. It is not impossible for Fujiko Mine to be a direct inspiration and/or that David Wise influenced the final design in the show, it just isn't good enough to be conclusive.

The reason I don't take David Wise on his word is not just down to him being a known liar (though it is part of the reason why it's worth doubting him in the first place) but because it could easily have been a coincidence. And none of that really changes the fact that we're talking about a character who wore a jumpsuit before his involvement.

As for why it is known that David Wise was a liar, it's really simple, there are way too many instances of him making incorrect statements when he should have known better. Even when he wasn't strictly contradicting facts, there are still instances where it doesn't really make sense logically, such as the case where he claimed creative process in creating Krang was effectively him making an Utrom character without ever really thinking about them, even though he should have known about them and it just makes way more sense if it was all intentional. There are also instances of him dismissing his own involvement if the idea is ridiculed or unpopular, in those instances he never really took responsibility for them but he sure was willing to take credit for just about anything that was considered iconic about the show. So basically, according to David Wise, anything about the show that was liked was his idea even if you could prove it came from the comics or someone else, while any of the flaws or questionable aspects came from someone else, even if it would have logically been his fault if he really had the creative freedom he claimed.

It's called pathological lying, there was no real benefit to these lies beyond making himself seem more important than he really was. He was effectively like Cartman in the Fishsticks episode.
MWVuSR1rQcM
TvTkr3qqdgQ