The turtles reliance on Don

[Jelly Bean]

Am I the only one who became annoyed with how much the turtles relied on Donatello in the 80's series? It was like the turtles couldn't do anything with out him and the whole team would fall apart without him. Which I gotta admit is slowly starting to annoy me. The "trilogy" was just about ruined for me because all the turtles went "when in doubt call on Donatello--DONATELLO!!!!!!" which annoyed the crap out of me. The same with Donatello's duplicate where he is shown to be a stronger fighter than all the turtles put together.And I would have enjoyed Night of the Dark turtle better if it had not been that the team was so inaffectual with out him.

I mean come on Leonardo could not have come up with a better plan than "use the turtle van" in that episode? On the other hand it was often shown that Don really didn't need the turtles and often took care of bad guys or threats all on his own. Like the one where he meets the shape shifting gecko and he takes care of the whole situation almost by himself. I think that is why I like the japanese episodes a little bit better, because leonardo shows his stuff more.

[juxtapose519]

That was Don's whole job: to be the brains. He was the one who was supposed to get them out of the big jams. Leo's job was to lead, not to save the day every time. He was there to keep order and give orders, not to kick the most ass. He just also happened to kick a lot of ass.

Scooby Doo is the perfect comparison. Mike is like Scooby and Shaggy, Fred is like Leo, and Velma was like Don. Forget Raph and Daphnie, because they don't make any sense in this comparison. Velma was the one who always solved the mystery, but it was Fred who always kept a level head and led them into the fray. It was his bravery and tenacity that always led them to the bad guy. If it weren't for him, they'd all be running around haunted mansions sitting on their thumbs.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The 1987 series is probably Donatello's strongest show ever, as we all know Donatello as the guy who sends the Technodrome to Dimension X.

The 1987 series had the strongest science fiction elements in it, allowing Donatello to play an important role. Other TMNT versions always used a lot of magicans and ghosts as enemies, Japanese demons, Buddhism and other stuff, things Donatello isn't just supposed to believe in at all. Just read Archie, the Japanese demon and Charlie Lama being re-born would confuse him a lot, but when they go to Dimension X, Donatello plays an important role.

[UsagiYojimbo]

Am I the only one who became annoyed with how much the turtles relied on Donatello in the 80's series?

I guess it's no different than relying on Mikey for the bulk of the comedy. ;)

[Logan]

"Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines."

That's how Don rolls, man.

[UsagiYojimbo]

"Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines."

That's how Don rolls, man.

He was the smart one wasn't he? That part of his personality from the cartoon seemed to be missing from the first Ninja Turtles movie. Somehow he magically knew about computers in the 2nd one though. :lol:

[Avatar Yuffie]

All the brains of the group in cartoon shows does that. Cyborg in Team Titans, Batman in The Justice League, Sokka in Avatar the Last Airbender, Gadget in Chip And Dale.

I don't see how that should be put against them.

I wouldn't say the Turtles worship Don's grasp on science though. There were episodes the other three make fun of his weirder inventions, for example. And snark their dislike on being forced to go to the city dump for scavenging parts.

[Logan]

He was the smart one wasn't he? That part of his personality from the cartoon seemed to be missing from the first Ninja Turtles movie. :lol:

That's something about the original that's bugged me for a long time. Don doesn't seem very... Don. He's wise-cracking and being buddy-buddy with Casey but he doesn't really ever flex his mental muscles. Feldman's voice didn't help matters, either, in my opinion.

[Sage Ninja]

every now and then, maybe just a tad. Though I will say he was probably the most well rounded of the OT turtles.

[Hermano Dyvas]

At least there was an episode in season 3 (take me to your leader) where Leo leaves the group and the group is pretty handicapped.

Don still does a better job at replacing Leo then Raph and Mike did but he's way too slow in making decisions.

[juxtapose519]

Don is to Leo as Kongming is to Xuande.

I can go on with the analogies all day.

[ssjup81]

At least there was an episode in season 3 (take me to your leader) where Leo leaves the group and the group is pretty handicapped.

Don still does a better job at replacing Leo then Raph and Mike did but he's way too slow in making decisions.I personally feel that Donny can make fast decisions when necessary, it was just that for that particular episode they over-emphasized Donny's need to rely on his technology...more than usual to show how much the group needed Leo to "lead". There are plenty of eps where Donny seemed to just take the lead with Leo standing right there.

As for Raph and Mikey in that ep, Mikey wasn't too bad, Raph didn't even get a chance to do anything "leaderish" because he handed off the responsibilities to Mikey, which sucked imo since we didn't get to even see what he was capable of.

[Jester]

Never bothered me. I mean it was Donnie's role. He was the go to guy, the brains.

[KROW]

Donatello's expertise in technology was the counter to the outrageous crap the turtles encountered. Only Donatello could figure out some weird-ass way to nullify, terminate, or sabotage whatever techno-threat a villain would throw in their way. Just because Leonardo wasn't the one who thought it up doesn't mean he was any less useful to the team. If I remember correctly, more often than not, Leo came up with a plan to let Don throw the proverbial monkey wrench, thus they were able to save the day.

[cryan]

I do agree that the movie verion of Donnie was not a great representation of him.I always like him being the go to guy for they tech stuff.I always liked super intelegate characters.To the poster who rattled off some other smart characters from other toons.You forgot Sally from Sonic The Hedgehog and Penny from Inspector Gadet.

[Genesis]

Other TMNT versions always used a lot of magicans and ghosts as enemies, Japanese demons, Buddhism and other stuff, things Donatello isn't just supposed to believe in at all. Just read Archie, the Japanese demon and Charlie Lama being re-born would confuse him a lot, but when they go to Dimension X, Donatello plays an important role.Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of over-used mysticism in my Turtles. Heck, I don't even like all the superheroes running around. I often liked when the Turtles deal with outer space situations, because Donatello kinda takes charge. It's not like he means to, but he is a competent leader when he has to be.

[Hermano Dyvas]

At least there was an episode in season 3 (take me to your leader) where Leo leaves the group and the group is pretty handicapped.

Don still does a better job at replacing Leo then Raph and Mike did but he's way too slow in making decisions.

I personally feel that Donny can make fast decisions when necessary, it was just that for that particular episode they over-emphasized Donny's need to rely on his technology...more than usual to show how much the group needed Leo to "lead". There are plenty of eps where Donny seemed to just take the lead with Leo standing right there.

As for Raph and Mikey in that ep, Mikey wasn't too bad, Raph didn't even get a chance to do anything "leaderish" because he handed off the responsibilities to Mikey, which sucked imo since we didn't get to even see what he was capable of.

Umm, not so sure I agree about Mikey. He was getting himself and Raph lost in the city untill the impossible-to-miss-ray came out of that skyscraper. Then his tactic to beat the robot guarding the building completely failed...
Not exactly epic leadership.

Raph really didn't want to be a leader, he attempted to pass his mantle more then once before he actually did, I think that sais enough about his leadership capabilities. :P

You're probably right about Don.

Now back to Leonardo, there's also the episode where he gets zapped by the personality altering ray and goes off to have fun. Again the other three form a crippled team. They are unable to stop this silly musician villain. Don tries a tech solution but it fails...

[Herald7]

That's something about the original that's bugged me for a long time. Don doesn't seem very... Don. He's wise-cracking and being buddy-buddy with Casey but he doesn't really ever flex his mental muscles. Feldman's voice didn't help matters, either, in my opinion.

For me it's just a different interpretation of the character. 1st movie Don is just more on the thoughtful side rather than the straight forward "brainy" side and I enjoyed that. 2nd movie Don was just too bland as is always the danger with "brainy" characters. They become all about their skills and no personality. In any case, Corey Feldman will always be my movie Donatello, lol.

As far as the OT, I didn't really find their reliance on Donatello annoying. I liked that while the other turtles were fighting the bad guys, Don had his own special job to perform. It gave the overall group more depth, rather than just having all of them fighting every time.

I don't think "annoying" is the right word. Now it could certainly get "ridiculous" at times, which is why it was fun when they joked about it on the show! Lol. But that was the purpose of the show, to satirize action cartoons.

[Jelly Bean]

for those of you that voted "better than having leo all the time," is it because of Leo's almost Godlike status in the 4KIDS show? The very reason I added that option was because I remember people complaining about how much front and center Leo was in that series. Do people find leo saving the day more annoying than Donatello? I know I am mixing universes but now I'm curious.

[Hermano Dyvas]

for those of you that voted "better than having leo all the time," is it because of Leo's almost Godlike status in the 4KIDS show? The very reason I added that option was because I remember people complaining about how much front and center Leo was in that series. Do people find leo saving the day more annoying than Donatello? I know I am mixing universes but now I'm curious.

I don't, and they still relied on Don for a lot of things. When he got mutated in season 4 the 2K3 team was seriously crippled.

[Avatar Yuffie]

I don't, and they still relied on Don for a lot of things. When he got mutated in season 4 the 2K3 team was seriously crippled.

Not to mention SAINW. Don not there = end of the world. Seriously.

[Uki]

Nah, his knack for tech and inventing is a nifty trait. They're all best at something.

[ssjup81]

Umm, not so sure I agree about Mikey. He was getting himself and Raph lost in the city untill the impossible-to-miss-ray came out of that skyscraper. Then his tactic to beat the robot guarding the building completely failed...

Raph really didn't want to be a leader, he attempted to pass his mantle more then once before he actually did, I think that sais enough about his leadership capabilities. :P
Not exactly epic leadership.I never said he was a great leader, just that he wasn't too bad in the sense that he actually tried. Raph didn't even do that. That aside, both have shown that they can lead and stuff. That ep where they were stuck in Dimension X with the Neutrinos, April, Irma, and Vernon kinda showed that.

[Jelly Bean]

I notice when it comes to the 80's toon people are kind of reluctant to give Raph and Mikey there due. Don and Leo are always getting praise, why not the two less serious turtles. :cry:

[Killer Moth]

As far as the OT, I didn't really find their reliance on Donatello annoying. I liked that while the other turtles were fighting the bad guys, Don had his own special job to perform. It gave the overall group more depth, rather than just having all of them fighting every time.

I don't think "annoying" is the right word. Now it could certainly get "ridiculous" at times, which is why it was fun when they joked about it on the show! Lol. But that was the purpose of the show, to satirize action cartoons.

Given the series' archetypes and plot formulas, Don fulfilled his purpose as the brain rather well. And there were enough episodes to allow the others to shine, as noted by others. There are some episodes, where, like "Night of the Dark Turtle," Don was really the only one to solve the problem or the only one who could have, on short notice. One very interesting aspect in the Red Sky fare is how Don become even more useful to the plot with his techno-savvy (or savvy ness?), though without the absurdity and parody.

Besides, given the snark the other Turtles gave about Don's inventions in Season 3 and onward, both ends were covered. Since they didn't do the whole Star Trek route and explain the science too much, then everything was fine. Or have they, and I don't know it or failing to remember it? (The closest that I could think of, immediately offhand, would be his explanation of the Niagara Falls power set-up in "Return of the Technodrome.") I haven't watched the middle of the series in depth or as an adult, so my memory will be quite spotty. Feel free to correct me or refresh my memory.

[TurtleManiac]

I do remember a lot of episodes of the OT in which Leonardo and Michaelangelo get captured, and it is up to Donatello and Raphael to rescue them.

[NameGoesHere1066]

I loved Don and his hatred for the human race saved him from a being a Mary Sue, but I really wished the other turtles could have been more independent of him than they were.

I mean the turtles are really crippled when Don is not around and to a lesser extent Leo. But the guys are never crippled if say Raph or Mike were missing.

Look at the episode where Splinter split the turtles into teams of two with Leo+Don vs. Raph+Mike. Leo and Don were butt raping Raph and Mike.

[Baxter Stockmen]

Yeah. Sometimes it got to be too much. Just like a lot of video games now. Hey there is a problem opening this door or accessing the computer files. Our expert techy will fix that no problem no matter what it is.

[shezcrafti]

I was just talking about this on Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/shezcrafti/status/179955951665815552) the other day. I've always thought Donatello's skills were way too convenient to the plots, and I've never understood how he could know so much about everything given the Turtles' living situation...

Um, hi btw. I'm new here. :tgrin:

[Baxter Stockmen]

I was just talking about this on Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/shezcrafti/status/179955951665815552) the other day. I've always thought Donatello's skills were way too convenient to the plots, and I've never understood how he could know so much about everything given the Turtles' living situation...

Um, hi btw. I'm new here. :tgrin:

welcome to the drome!

[Sage Ninja]

Look at the episode where Splinter split the turtles into teams of two with Leo+Don vs. Raph+Mike. Leo and Don were butt raping Raph and Mike.

Didn't Michelangelo furiously destroy Donatello's machine that was flinging garbage at them with one strike and then nocked an armed Leonardo flat on his back with his bare hands, then captured their tower winning the game? And wasn't it Raphael who in the same episode came up with the plan to defeat the bad guys? And it wasn't some wimpy, slap-stick, gimmicky, resolution to the problem either. Raphael's plan was designed to kill the Rat King and Leatherhead, it doesn't matter that they survived. That proves how effective those two were so they were hardly passive memebers of the team.

[TurtleManiac]

I think it was in "Attack of the 50 Foot Irma" Donatello saves and says to the other 3 turtles "I sometimes wonder what you guys would do without me" so he knows